from:"Draconis"

Hi Tom,

Your discussion of VB6 was one of the best explanations of the situation I’ve 
seen on this list.

We’re in the process of rewriting old titles to use the new Engine. The old ESP 
Softworks titles were all VB6. This is going to be an arduous transition, but 
we’ll get there, and the games will be better than ever when we do.

It is unlikely we will continue supporting XP, though. As you stated, we have a 
Mexican stand off, and we can take this opportunity to move forward since Mac 
sales are so robust and Windows sales are definitely weaker. Sales of our new 
Windows titles have not warranted the effort we put into supporting XP.

For future titles, if we can support it with minimal effort, we will. When the 
effort required to maintain support for XP exceeds a certain threshold though, 
we just can’t justify it.

If Windows sales pick up and a lot of users are still using XP down the road, 
we may revisit the topic.

As for those who blame Microsoft for incompatibilities with VB6, it is common 
for people with these types of views of the world to want to vilify any company 
once it reaches a certain size for absolutely everything, whether based on 
facts or not. I have no love for big corporations, either, but I’m also not 
naive enough to think that every one of them is the equivalent of Lord 
Voldemort. Remember, Apple is doomed because they use DRM on the music they 
sell in iTunes. They aren’t, and they don’t, and in fact haven’t had DRM in 
just about seven years now, but those kinds of knee jerk reactions lead to 
everything being someone else’s fault. Apple didn’t even have a choice with the 
DRM situation. The record labels dictated that situation. It’s unfortunate, 
because for the most part, people who take these kinds of views are hurting 
themselves more than anyone else. At least until they start spewing 
misinformation across the Internet.

Microsoft surely hasn’t done developers, or themselves for that matter, any 
favors with a lot of idiotic decisions they’ve made over the last 15 years or 
so, but not everything is their fault, either.

As I have said so often, the world is comprised of shades of gray. It is 
rarely, if ever, black and white.


On Dec 19, 2013, at 9:11 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Dark,
 
 Sigh...You are probably right about the fact that we have said all
 that can be said on this subject. I feel like I'm in a boxing match
 where neither person has made any impact on the other and all we are
 doing is going round after round not getting anywhere.
 
 However, before I close this topic I feel the need to make a
 correction. Visual Basic 6 apps and games still work on Windows 8. You
 have to take some extra steps to make them work correctly, but it
 certainly can be done. In fact, Microsoft released a patch for Windows
 8 not too long ago that extends support for older Visual Basic 6 apps
 and games for the lifetime of Windows 8. So what you said about
 Microsoft mucking up compatibility with Visual Basic 6 is not true.
 They have in fact tried to maintain compatibility as long as necessary
 while getting programmers to adopt .NET instead.
 
 Even if it were true can you possibly try and see it from their point
 of view for once instead of looking at this from a biased position.
 Visual Basic 6 was released in 1998. That was 15 years ago for a
 totally different operating system and generation of computers than we
 are dealing with today. There were several third-party ActiveX
 components for 16-bit and 32-bit Windows that are no longer supported
 by their respective companies causing major problems with VB 6
 applications. Since those ActiveX components are not made by
 Microsoft, not supported by Microsoft, those problems are strictly the
 problem with the third-party companies that developed them for Windows
 98 etc. there are of course plenty of other problems with Visual Basic
 6, and Microsoft made the right decision by phasing out the language
 and components in exchange for a newer and better technology called
 .NET which is far superior to VB 6 ever was.
 
 The problem is this.. Despite .NET being better in various ways many
 people were happy with VB 6 and chose not to upgrade to .NET. A lot of
 VI gamers so no benefit to them in learning VB .NET so didn't. That is
 why most of the games out there are still written in VB 6, and really
 should be rewritten or updated. That's not Microsoft's fault that
 various accessible games were written in Visual Basic 6. Microsoft
 made it clear 10 years ago that developers should begin migrating to
 .NET, and if developers didn't listen that is their problem. They were
 told what is what, and yet despite all that Microsoft does maintain
 some basic compatibility for VB 6 because they want you and others to
 upgrade, but they also want to begin migrating developers away from
 old outdated technologies too.
 
 With the accessible games community we seem to be caught in a classic
 chicken and

Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question

Hi Alex,

Just adding a bit to your comments.

Apple’s aggressive strategy regarding software upgrades tends to keep their 
platforms more robust and stable, but comes at the cost of some backward 
compatibility.

That said, though, Apple has also made it extremely easy for developers to keep 
their software current, regardless of platform. Indeed, migrating from PPC to 
Intel was a painless transition for the vast majority of developers. Far more 
trivial than trying to upgrade VB6 apps, even under the best of circumstances. 
Much has been written, in fact, on just how good Apple has gotten at these 
kinds of technological transitions, and they get smoother and smoother as the 
years go by. So far, the major transitions have been:

• OS Classic to OS X
• Carbon to Cocoa
• PPC to Intel
• 32 bit to 64 bit Intel
• 32 to 64 bit mobile

I’m hoping that Microsoft will learn from its mistakes and adopt some similar 
strategies going forward.

On Dec 19, 2013, at 12:41 PM, Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com wrote:

 Dark,
 
 I'd just like to point out some misinformation in this post, and some
 misunderstandings about Mac and iOS.
 
 First, you said that iOS apps never have compatibility issues with iOS
 upgrades. This is definitely not the case. Several apps, including
 Solara (to bring this somewhat back to games) had some serious bugs
 running on IOS 7, and some apps were completely unusable until the
 developers released updates to fix compatibility.
 
 Second, if you're looking for an OS that places a high priority on
 backward compatibility, you're not going to get it from OS X. Apple is
 much more aggressive about discontinuing old API's and technologies
 and removing them than even Microsoft is. Allow me to illustrate this.
 
 In 2005, Apple switched from using the Power PC processor architecture
 to the Intel X86/X64 architecture used by Windows PC's. In order to
 provide backward-compatibility for PowerPC applications, Apple
 included a PpC emulator called Rosetta. The last PPC-compatible OS X
 version was 10.5, released in 2007. Version 10.6, released in 2009,
 was not compatible with PowerPC hardware, but stil supported Rosetta.
 However, the next version, released in 2011, removed Rosetta support.
 
 Let's say that, for example, BSC Games had written their software for
 Mac instead of Windows. If I'm not mistaken, Pipe 2 was last updated
 in February 2005, a few months before Apple announced the Intel
 transition. Within just six years, you would no longer be able to run
 the game on newer versions of the OS. You could just refuse to update
 to a newer OS, but once your machine broke, you'd have no choice but
 to hunt down parts on eBay or be forced to stop using any incompatible
 software.
 
 
 On 12/19/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote:
 Well tom I don't really believe there's much else to say since for me,
 security isn't an issue due to fhtird party software and I'd rather run avg
 
 than have the harrassment of running windows 8 and a virtual xp system.
 maybe that's different  for you.
 
 if microsoft of course  hadn't mucked up compatiblity with vb6 applications
 
 and dos programs, well I'd be happy to upgrade even with relearning the
 interface, and indeed I imagine everyone else currently running xp would as
 
 well, so it's certain where the blaime for this situation belongs. This is
 actually one prime advantage  Ios seems to have  over windows since it
 doesn't break existing programs when upgrading, and is another reason I'd
 like to investigate the actual bennifits (if any), of mac as opposed to
 windows 7 since if I've got to run xp in a virtual machine anyway, well it
 doesn't make too much difference whether I use mac or windows.
 
 Beware the Grue!
 
 Dark.
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question

Well Dallas, your supposition doesn’t hold up to much scrutiny, since Apple 
has, and does, major transitions on iOS all the time, and there are somewhere 
in the neighborhood of 500 to 700 million iOS devices in use.

A much more key difference is that, with Apple products, the hardware and 
software are integrated in such a way as to vastly improve reliability and cut 
down on the infinity numbers of configurations and complexity we see in PC’s. 
Makers of game consoles also use an integrated strategy, and we are seeing it 
adopted by more and more electronics companies, because it simply works, and 
provides users with a superior experience.

Microsoft is slowly dabbling with integrated products, first with the 
restrictions on Windows Phone hardware and then by producing the Surface RT and 
Surface Pro. They have, of course, done this for quite some time with Xbox.

So the sheer number of users really has little to do with it. It’s simply that 
Apple has historically done this better.

On Dec 19, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Dallas O'Brien dallas.r.obr...@gmail.com wrote:

 hi, it's not only that, but simply because apple's user base is
 actually nothing, when it comes to a number situation. they have all
 of about 50 to 70 million users on mac, not all of which are up to
 date, but more then not. then Microsoft, has over 1.5 billion! users
 in windows. they have more people to please then apple. apple can get
 away with jumping to something different in an instant, cause half the
 world doesn't rely on them. where as for Microsoft, 95 percent of the
 entire computing world rely's on them. lol. that's a lot of
 responsibility.
 Dallas
 
 
 On 20/12/2013, Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,
 Yes, I would definitely agree that Apple has always handled these
 transitions very well, much better than Microsoft.
 
 I think one reason for this is MS's large number of Enterprise
 customers. Enterprises tend to migrate to newer technologies extremely
 slowly, and I think this is holding MS back in many ways. There are
 several bugs in the Windows API that MS has left in because fixing
 them would break enterprise deployments of older software. I think
 Apple's relatively lower success in the enterprise is a good thing, as
 it allows them to evolve their products much more easily.
 
 
 
 On 12/19/13, Draconis i...@dracoent.com wrote:
 Hi Alex,
 
 Just adding a bit to your comments.
 
 Apple’s aggressive strategy regarding software upgrades tends to keep
 their
 platforms more robust and stable, but comes at the cost of some backward
 compatibility.
 
 That said, though, Apple has also made it extremely easy for developers
 to
 keep their software current, regardless of platform. Indeed, migrating
 from
 PPC to Intel was a painless transition for the vast majority of
 developers.
 Far more trivial than trying to upgrade VB6 apps, even under the best of
 circumstances. Much has been written, in fact, on just how good Apple has
 gotten at these kinds of technological transitions, and they get smoother
 and smoother as the years go by. So far, the major transitions have been:
 
 • OS Classic to OS X
 • Carbon to Cocoa
 • PPC to Intel
 • 32 bit to 64 bit Intel
 • 32 to 64 bit mobile
 
 I’m hoping that Microsoft will learn from its mistakes and adopt some
 similar strategies going forward.
 
 On Dec 19, 2013, at 12:41 PM, Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Dark,
 
 I'd just like to point out some misinformation in this post, and some
 misunderstandings about Mac and iOS.
 
 First, you said that iOS apps never have compatibility issues with iOS
 upgrades. This is definitely not the case. Several apps, including
 Solara (to bring this somewhat back to games) had some serious bugs
 running on IOS 7, and some apps were completely unusable until the
 developers released updates to fix compatibility.
 
 Second, if you're looking for an OS that places a high priority on
 backward compatibility, you're not going to get it from OS X. Apple is
 much more aggressive about discontinuing old API's and technologies
 and removing them than even Microsoft is. Allow me to illustrate this.
 
 In 2005, Apple switched from using the Power PC processor architecture
 to the Intel X86/X64 architecture used by Windows PC's. In order to
 provide backward-compatibility for PowerPC applications, Apple
 included a PpC emulator called Rosetta. The last PPC-compatible OS X
 version was 10.5, released in 2007. Version 10.6, released in 2009,
 was not compatible with PowerPC hardware, but stil supported Rosetta.
 However, the next version, released in 2011, removed Rosetta support.
 
 Let's say that, for example, BSC Games had written their software for
 Mac instead of Windows. If I'm not mistaken, Pipe 2 was last updated
 in February 2005, a few months before Apple announced the Intel
 transition. Within just six years, you would no longer be able to run
 the game on newer versions of the OS. You could just refuse to update
 to a newer OS

Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question

Just an interesting tidbit on this discussion.

Marco Arment, original developer of Tumblr, InstaaPaper, and the Magazine, has 
been doing some research today regarding the release of the Mac Pros and how 
they compare to PC’s of similar spec.

His comparisons are with the $3999 Mac Pro.

For a similar Dell with slower SSD drives and no Thunderbolt ports, the price 
was $4034. The Dell did come bundled with a keyboard and mouse, but of course 
the real hit will be with the SSD’s.

For an HP that was even closer in spec, the price was $5699.

He usually writes blog posts when he does this kind of research, so I’ll share 
that link if he does.

Macs are not more expensive. Apple just doesn’t care to compete for the low-end 
of the market.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question

2013-12-18 Thread Draconis

Hi Tom, Dark, and others,

I am not sure that anyone is misrepresenting your position, Dark. You want 
tangible benefits to a very small set of criteria, but life is made up of a 
combination of both tangibles and intangibles. For instance, perhaps you don’t 
spell check because you are using XP. A benefit to using a Mac is that the 
spell checker is built in and system wide, meaning that you can take advantage 
of it anywhere with no additional cost. I’m not sure if later versions of 
Windows have this, but I know for along time Microsoft wanted that to be a 
premium feature available only in Office. However, that benefit would not 
impact you directly, only those of us reading your messages. It would be, to 
you at least, an intangible benefit that would impact how you are perceived by 
others. However, it does not fall into your very narrow parameters, and so 
therefore you discount it.

In the case of those clinging to XP such as yourself, whether out of 
stubbornness or necessity, the biggest concern I have is security. Perhaps it 
will take a major catastrophe, such as a loss of data, identity theft, loss of 
funds in one’s bank account, to wake some of you up. It won’t happen to 
everyone, but the more blasé you are about the security benefits of upgrading, 
the more likely you are to be one of those victims. But again, this is an 
intangible that you will not care about until you are one of them.

It is one thing to decide that now is not the time for you to upgrade. That’s 
your decision. I think Tom and I are only pointing out good reasons you may 
wish to that you have dismissed based on misinformation or flawed logic.

On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:36 AM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote:

 Hi Tom.
 
 I was probably thinking of vista, since I do  know when getting my desktop 
 repared in 2008 I very much didn't want a machine with newer windows, which 
 was one  other advantage of going to a local custom  manufacturer since all 
 the main shops like Pc world were the slaves of microsoft and ramming newer 
 versions down people's throats.
 
 Well I have  said under  what circumstances I'll upgrade. Yes, I can run xp 
 in a virtual machine and I am glad there is that option, but if the newer os 
 doesn't actually bennifit me, well why have the  hassle?
 
 to be honest I can understand that someone like yourself who cares about all 
 the technical stuff  is interested in the newer os, but I am getting slightly 
 irritated with having the position I'm in missrepresented or missunderstoo. I 
 do not think xp is the best thing there ever  will be, neither do  I  reffuse 
 to upgrade, I merely don't see the point at the moment, that is all, and I 
 fully expect in the future that this will change when a new os actually  make 
 a practical difference that is worth the hassle.
 
 That is another reason I spent time playing with Windows 7 and I'd like to 
 try mac and windows 8 in the same way, although at this point in time I have 
 a sneaking suspicion that it will be a hardware not a software change such as 
  touch screen control or something like.
 
 Beware the grue!
 
 Dark. 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question

2013-12-18 Thread Draconis

Hi Cara,

Another great example of an intangible that does not directly impact daily 
usage of email, word processing, listening to MP3’s or playing games. :)

Thanks!

On Dec 18, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Cara Quinn caraqu...@caraquinn.com wrote:

 Now I absolutely will not get in the middle of this one. :)
 
 I will say though, as regards people's responsibilities when it comes to 
 keeping their systems up to date in reference to security, that this is not 
 just a matter of one's own system.
 
 One's security really affects everyone with whom that person comes into 
 contact with in their dealings on the web or via email etc.
 
 If one's security is compromised or not kept up to date, then that person 
 puts all others at risk, who have any kind of data, email addresses or any 
 other form of identifying info on that person's system.
 
 So in short, your security is not just your responsibility for yourself on 
 your own system. It is your responsibility to those you deal with on a 
 regular basis as well.
 
 Just like you would not deliberately give your friends a cold, or share a 
 friend's phone number indiscriminately with everyone because they asked you 
 not to, so you should also protect your system not just for yourself but for 
 those you correspond with.
 
 Just my thoughts and thanks for reading…
 
 Smiles,
 
 Cara :)
 ---
 iOS design and development - LookTel.com
 ---
 View my Online Portfolio at:
 
 http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn
 
 Follow me on Twitter!
 
 https://twitter.com/ModelCara
 
 On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:59 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi Dark,
 
 I certainly don't want to misrepresent your position, and I do think I
 understand your position very well. I guess for me I'm just very
 concerned that you are making a bad decision based on very flawed
 criteria, or at the very least the perceived benefits you are looking
 for are too me a bit short sighted.
 
 Bottom line, we don't see this the same way and I guess we probably
 never will. I am very concerned about security, feel people should
 take it more seriously than they do, and you are being less concerned
 about it than I feel is warranted. Same could be said about hardware
 and other things I pointed out. You don't see any benefit, fine, but
 that does not mean my points are not valid. It is just that you have a
 totally different outlook and do not value the same things I do when
 it comes to hardware and software.
 
 Cheers!
 
 On 12/18/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote:
 Hi Tom.
 
 I was probably thinking of vista, since I do  know when getting my desktop
 repared in 2008 I very much didn't want a machine with newer windows, which
 
 was one  other advantage of going to a local custom  manufacturer since all
 
 the main shops like Pc world were the slaves of microsoft and ramming newer
 
 versions down people's throats.
 
 Well I have  said under  what circumstances I'll upgrade. Yes, I can run xp
 
 in a virtual machine and I am glad there is that option, but if the newer os
 
 doesn't actually bennifit me, well why have the  hassle?
 
 to be honest I can understand that someone like yourself who cares about all
 
 the technical stuff  is interested in the newer os, but I am getting
 slightly irritated with having the position I'm in missrepresented or
 missunderstoo. I do not think xp is the best thing there ever  will be,
 neither do  I  reffuse to upgrade, I merely don't see the point at the
 moment, that is all, and I fully expect in the future that this will change
 
 when a new os actually  make a practical difference that is worth the
 hassle.
 
 That is another reason I spent time playing with Windows 7 and I'd like to
 try mac and windows 8 in the same way, although at this point in time I have
 
 a sneaking suspicion that it will be a hardware not a software change such
 as  touch screen control or something like.
 
 Beware the grue!
 
 Dark.
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list,

Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question


I’ve actually found precisely the opposite to be true, especially over the last 
few years. Early on, I agree that Windows had a great selection of accessible 
apps, but that had to do with Apple’s transition from Carbon to Cocoa. Carbon 
apps were rarely accessible. Cocoa apps are almost always so. Now that that 
transition is far behind us, it is very rare that I find a Mac app that is 
totally inaccessible. The exception to this are apps that have been developed 
with cross-platform GUI packages that always have terrible accessibility 
problems on most or all platforms. These are typically terrible apps from 
usability standpoint, not just accessibility.

Tooble is a free Mac app for downloading YouTube videos. I haven’t used it in a 
long time, though. Usually, I only care about the audio from a YouTube video, 
and since Audio Hijack Pro let’s you selective record audio from any app, 
entirely independent of any other audio being made by your system, it suits my 
purposes well.

Tunesify and Vidify are audio and video converters, respectively, that are 
inexpensive and may do what you want. I’ve used Tunesify, and have heard good 
things about Vidify.

SoundStudio is an audio editing app that is very comparable to SoundForge on 
Windows for $29. GarageBand is a fabulous multi-track recording solution for 
$15. There is a lot of very affordable software on Mac.

I agree that the trials situation on the App Store is a problem, though. The 
production of “lite” versions has someone helped with it, but it is still 
troublesome. Most apps, though, have trial versions on their website, and I 
have never had to resort to cracked versions to test an app’s accessibility. 
Given the enormous community of VoiceOver users now, you can usually just ask 
for recommendations for a particular kind of app and get what you want.


On Dec 17, 2013, at 7:49 AM, Piotr Machacz piterm...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,
 As far as virtualising on OS X, I keep an XP VM around for things like games. 
 I gave it 2 gigs of ram and, If I remember right, 2 cores. It does absolutely 
 nothing to OS X if it’s running. But to really compare performance, OS X  on 
 this particular macbook (2.7GHZ I7, 16GB ram, SSD), usually uses around 2-3% 
 CPU when I have my usual apps open like email, RSS, Twitter, Messenger, a 
 safari tab or 2. Battery life, 7 hours, or there a bouts. if I boot into 
 windows on bootcamp, it heats up very quickly, uses around 5-10% CPU idle, 
 and battery drops to about 3 hours. 
 Since we’re on the topic of Mac vs windows apps and all that good stuff, I 
 have to say that a lot of the time, Windows has better apps for cheeper. Case 
 and point, there is an app called arid. It’s just a youtube downloader. You 
 paste a link, select either mp4 video or audio only MP3, and convert. All 
 this for an incredibly low price of $20. On Windows, you have something like 
 the free youtube to MP3 converter, which also converts to other audio 
 formats, and can also process entire channels or playlists, a feature that I 
 still haven’t found in any mac video downloader. Another slightly annoying 
 problem is Apple’s no trial policy in the mac app store, where apps are 
 usually $5-$10 and up, and thanks to the not quite accessible UI frameworks 
 like QT, you’re never sure if something is going to read or not. Not saying 
 it’s always the case (look at downcast or iWork which are cheeper than 
 anything on Windows and work either as well or better), but more often than 
 not I’ll admit to looking for a cracked version for an app, testing its 
 accessibility, and then buying it, or not, depending on how that went.
 On 17 Dec 2013, at 01:39 am, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Its hard for me to speak about virtualizing on Mac, seeing as I don't
 have one, but from what I can tell Apple knows how to make their OS
 use the hardware it is running on well so it isn't a resource hog. So
 even though the processors and memory in Mac's may seem behind
 compared to Windows machines a Mac user usually gets better
 performance out of it because Apple doesn't waste the power and memory
 the way a certain other software company does. As someone recently
 said, Apple doesn't make junk.
 
 Cheers!
 
 On 12/15/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote:
 Well mac software may be a bit more officient.
 though I have only heard this from the point view of those musicians
 and such that use it.
 SOme of those that are able to use macs will happily bash down
 windows units for not being as fast.
 On vertual machines windows probably is not the best to run a vm on a
 thing I discovered a while ago.
 A mac or linux is suggested.
 So as far as windows goes there may be some limits never really gone
 over them though.
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at

Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question

Hi Tom,

There is a flaw in Dark’s logic though, and in that of many other’s. I don’t 
believe when trying out a new system for the first time, bet hat Mac or Linux 
or Windows 7, that you can spend only a handful of hours with something 
radically different from what you’re used to and come away with a reasonably 
informed and valid opinion of it. Operating systems can vary tremendously in 
terms of how the user interfaces with them, and it takes quite some time for 
your previous experiences to stop interfering with your usage of the new system.

Case in point…a friend and colleague of mine got a Mac, and for the first week 
or two hated it. He came very close to whipping the drive and installing 
Windows and forgetting OS X entirely.

Then something happened at about the two week mark, when finally something 
clicked for him, and he started to overcome those barriers that are built 
through long use of an OS. Today, he’s an avid Mac user and would never go back 
to Windows, despite having been a Windows user for nearly fifteen years.

I see this pattern again and again with people trying out different operating 
systems.

So, no matter the OS, I take no one very seriously who claims their opinion is 
informed because it is based on a few hours with a brand-new OS.

I spent several weeks with Linux a few years back, and while it isn’t for me, 
and I feel it has far more headaches than it is worth, I do understand its 
appeal and get why some people choose to use it. I won’t speak with any 
authority on Windows 8, because I haven’t spent any significant time with it. I 
read with interest experiences of those who have spent significant time with 
it, and dismiss those who used it for a day and declared it junk.

On Dec 17, 2013, at 8:51 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Dark,
 
 That is all a reasonable person can ask. If a person doesn't like the
 software they don't like it. At least though you tried it to give
 examples of why it does not work for you personally.
 
 For example, I have been using Windows 8 on my Toshiba for a few
 months, have grown accustom to the new user interface, and yet I have
 seen my fair share of blind users who say they absolutely hate it and
 have never tried it yet. I can understand someone's dislike if they
 have it, have used it for a couple of months, and still don't like it,
 but not if they base their opinions on what they have heard from
 others. I think if a person is going to voice an opinion one way or
 another they should at least use the software a bit and then give
 voice siting their opinion with examples of why they do not like it
 from their personal experience.
 
 The same would hold true for Mac, Linux, or anything else. I think if
 someone is to give a reasonable opinion they need to spend a bit of
 quality time with the software in question before voicing an opinion
 one way or the other.
 
 Cheers!
 
 On 12/16/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote:
 I actually would like to play with a mac at some point, indeed my brother is
 
 getting one over christmas so I might ask for a list of common vo commands
 at just have a poke around the os for the experience, since if I don't know
 
 I don't know.
 
 Btw, this is why I do say I difinatively dislike windows 7, since I spent
 several hours playing with it then after our last discussion I went to a
 local society for the blind and spent considderably more time with it,
 and  no!
 
 But at least my opinion is informed by some degree of experience with the
 subject.
 
 Beware the grue!
 
 Dark.
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question

Hi Dark,

I think you’re missing the distinction I’m trying to make, though. You’ve 
determined, based on very limited experience, that the transition to Windows 7 
is not worth the effort to you at this time. That would be a very valid 
statement. Flat out saying you don’t like it is unfair, because you have not 
had a chance to use it long enough to make a fair assessment, given that it is 
a very different OS than the one you use now.

I take issue with declarative blanket statements that clearly have no basis. I 
understand if you do not have the luxury to try something out for as long as 
you may wish. I haven’t had the luxury to sink my teeth into Windows 8, either, 
whether I would want to or not. But I won’t say categorically that I dislike it 
or that it is a bad OS. I can speak with authority based on far more experience 
of previous versions of Windows, and do so.

To many people try something out for a couple of hours, then post about how 
terrible a thing is. You concluded, based on your limited resources, that you 
didn’t want to upgrade. But you have no way of knowing whether or not you’d 
like Windows 7, having not been able to truly learn all its ins and outs, and 
break the habits instilled by XP. That’s all I’m saying.

And, let me say, you’re not alone. Tons of people do the very same thing, so 
I’m not targeting you specifically.

Hope this gives you some food for thought.

On Dec 17, 2013, at 11:36 AM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote:

 At the same time josh, the fact is frankly don't have the luxury to try out a 
 system for a few weeks, or indeed for me would I really care to, since I 
 don't ultimately really care much about the operating system as a thing in 
 itself, I just care what it's going to let me do with my computer.
 
 My conclusion with windows 7 was that it wouldn't actually give me anything 
 new I wanted to do, and would just cause me headaches to learn it, (not to 
 mention bust compatibility with previous  software), so that's why I can say 
 I don't like the os.
 
 With Mac I'm not sure not having tried one or investigated it's capabilities 
 in the things I expect my computer to do such as net browsing, word 
 processing, file management, watching dvds and listening to audio books and 
 music. As I said this is why i want to sit down and play with one a while as 
 I did with Ios to decide if it'd be of any bennifit to me in those things 
 over the xp desktop I have now.
 
 Beware the Grue!
 
 Dark. 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question

Hi Dark,

Then you will live your life based on knee jerk reactions to everything, rather 
than careful consideration of situations, facts, and so on. As Tom as pointed 
out, you have a lack of experience with Windows 7. His explanation of a quick 
way to reach the shutdown option in Win 7 is an example of what I mean by “ins 
and outs”.

I prefer to base my opinions and decisions on experience and careful 
consideration. You tend to go with your gut, which is not a criticism, just an 
observation. To use an analogy, Captain Kirk always went with his gut, and Mr. 
Spock over analyzed everything. The ideal is somewhere in between, which is 
why, in the Trek universe, they were such a great team, as was illustrated many 
times as they contrasted the two philosophies.

Extremism of any kind is almost always a bad thing.

On an aside, and I mean this in the friendliest way possible, it would be very, 
very helpful if you could spell check your messages before sending them. It 
would make them much easier to read and understand.

On Dec 17, 2013, at 12:35 PM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote:

 ne problem however with that kind of attitude is that, as I said, humans are 
 very good at getting used to things, indeed you'd be quite amazed at some of 
 the things some people have got used to.
 
 my question about windows 7 was a very simple one. given that I know I could! 
 get used to the interface, is the time it'd take me to do so worth me 
 spending? what would windows 7 give me that windows xp doesn't?
 
 it was to answer this very question after having a long debate about it on 
 the list that I went back and tried the os again after the initial afternoon 
 I spent with it. I did conclude at that point that I could get used to the 
 way things worked on windows 7,  but I just didn't see any actual 
 bennifit to doing so, not like the bennifits I got from say learning how to 
 use the very different interface on my Iphone.
 
 What ins and outs of the os do you suggest I missed during my examination, 
 given that i was specifically interested in those things i use my computer 
 for and whether windows 7 would help me do them better.
 
 Beware the grue!
 
 Dark. 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question

2013-12-16 Thread Draconis

Funnily enough, Shaun, I used Windows for a decade before jumping ship to Mac 
because it was such an improvement. So that is why I shake my head at the 
people who delight in bashing Macs or Apple. It’s fine if it isn’t the platform 
for you, but stick for the reasons it doesn’t work for you instead of inventing 
or recycling nonsense about it that isn’t true, which is done far too often on 
this list.

On Dec 15, 2013, at 8:41 PM, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi kara well I am just a user that is interested in more information.
 One thing I have found about anything else is that when you get a system you 
 seem to stick to it and protect it with your life.
 I have always used windows and have invested a lot in it over the years.
 Though if I started again I may have chosen another system.
 That doesn't mean that I won't run everything of vms in the future but even 
 so.
 Once you do have a system or whatever it is, I have found that you stick to 
 your group of associated people that use that system.
 Anything that does not is a potentual threat to you.
 
 At 03:14 PM 12/15/2013, you wrote:
 Okay,
 
 Have not read down this thread all the way yet but I have something simple 
 to say.
 
 If people are seriously wanting information on Mac / iOS development then 
 that's great and I'm happy to answer when I can. -And there are others here 
 as well.
 
 However, this whole Mac / Windows discussion really just seems to be a group 
 of people who are not even coding on Macs (and may not even have had any 
 experience at all coding on either platform) who are wanting to say how much 
 they like Windows.
 
 this is great. But please don't bring this up under the guise of asking 
 questions when you seem to really just want to say how much you like Windows.
 
 That's just a waste of time wouldn't you say?
 
 I've programmed on Windows with Visual Studio and Mac with XCode. They both 
 have their quirks…
 
 For people who want to use Windows, that's great! For people who want to use 
 Mac, that's great!
 
 Can we just stop acting like idiots and get along? ;) lol!
 
 Thanks and hope you're all having an awesome weekend!
 
 Cara :)
 ---
 iOS design and development - LookTel.com
 ---
 View my Online Portfolio at:
 
 http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn
 
 Follow me on Twitter!
 
 https://twitter.com/ModelCara
 
 On Dec 14, 2013, at 7:20 AM, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 you can get a great windows7 machine from blaire technology group for $190 
 or around $200. take off the back pannel put 4 more gigs of ram in and you 
 are good to go.
 
 using windows7 laptop
 
 On 12/14/2013 5:56 AM, Dallas O'Brien wrote:
  hi. a few things here. yes, you are correct che. mac's are nothing,
  compared to windows. mac's alone, make up about 50 to 70 million
  computers in the world today. windows makes up over 1.5 billion,
  that's billion with a B for bravo. lol. so mac's are nothing to
  windows. and unless apple brings their prices down, they will never
  ever be close to a windows based machine, simply because i can buy a
  windows computer, that has the same basic internal capabilities as a
  macbook, for a third of the price. and the every day user, isn't going
  to spend 3 times the cost, or more. they can't afford it these days.
  it's mostly rich kids, and people who have a bit of money to throw at
  a problem that buy macs. the every day user just can't afford that
  price premium. hell, the prices of iPads and iPhones is just stupid
  for that matter.
 
  note, using the turm pc  for only a windows based computer isn't
  particularly correct, as mac's are PC's as well. just thought i'd
  throw that in, as in terms of what intel call a pc, a mac is one as
  well.
  and yeah, i can imagine that coding on the mac is ... interesting, to
  say the least. lol. hell, just doing every day functions on a mac, are
  a combination of contorsionism, and joint popping acrobatics. ahaha.
  never the less, it's good to see some games coming out on the mac. but
  it will never be the main platform. the ratio of windows to mac is too
  great. it's not affordable for a developer to work on some games, for
  the mac, compared to for windows.
  well, good luck with your work che. looking forward to getting my paws
  on a copy of the RR V2.
  regards:
  Dallas
 
 
  On 14/12/2013, Che Martin blindadrenal...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi ya,
   Just red this quote from the list:
  Start quote:
 
  First, ignoring Mac as a viable platform for blind gamers is a poor
  strategy. One year on, and Mac sales are still far exceeding Windows 
  sales,
  even in comparison to back in the hay day of audio games, some 10 years 
  ago
  or so. It isn't just about raw user numbers, it is about demographics and
  the quality of those users.
   End quote
 
Maybe I am misunderstanding the quote here, but are you saying that macs
  are outselling windows machines?
Where are you getting those numbers?
Its been a while since I

Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question

2013-12-15 Thread Draconis


Well, Dark, you don’t trust any corporations with anything. I mostly don’t 
either, but I think that taking middle ground on such things puts people more 
in the ballpark of reality. Not *all* corporations are evil, any more than 
*all* people are.

To answer the question you posed, you can indeed usually get Apple hardware 
repaired locally or by small companies. For all the years I had PC’s, though, I 
had extremely bad experiences with local companies that I went to for service, 
so I don’t think you can trust them in the main, either. It’s great that you’ve 
found one that you do business with, because I am a proponent for supporting 
local businesses in general.

All that being said, Apple has the highest customer satisfaction rate of any 
company on the planet for electronics, computers, and customer service. The 
very few times I’ve dealt with them my products have been repaired/replaced in 
under an hour at the AppleStore, and if you don’t have an AppleStore, they will 
usually pay for overnight shipping if your product is under warranty, so you’re 
rarely without your device for more than two days.

Also, Apple, by default, has a 1 year warrantee on the vast majority of its 
products for no additional cost, which is far longer than the 90 days or less 
provided by just about anyone else. You can have that extended to 3 years for a 
fee, and in general it is no questions asked. It doesn’t usually cover user 
damage, though. You can’t drive over it with a car and expect Apple to pay for 
it. LOL.

On Dec 15, 2013, at 10:14 AM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote:

 Hi Dallas.
 
 To be honest I wouldn't trust any major coorporation with repares, just 
 because when you send your computer or phone or whatever off to somewhere 
 else you have no idea where it is, when you get it back or what's going on 
 with it.
 
 If I ever need a repare I know a very nice local firm of tech specialists who 
 deal with anything windows relatedd and take literally a week, indeed they 
 built my current pc, handled the installation of a new graphics card when the 
 old one bust last year, and also sold me a new internal hd and took me 
 through installing it. They will also do software fixes too at a very 
 reasonable price and the most I've ever seen them take over a repare was one 
 week which was my mum's desktop.
 
 They don't deal with mac or anything Apple related unfortunately, indeed I 
 don't know if it is even possible to get local repares done that way what 
 with Apple's thing about being in absolute control of anything to do with 
 their products even when you own them.
 
 But for anything windows I'd always trust my local, or indeed someone like 
 them.
 
 Ultimately it's like anything else, if you send whatever peace of equipment 
 to be fixed, if it's done locally you can always check up on it, be sure of 
 what is being done and remain in touch with the process. If it's sent off 
 into the coorporate black hole you don't know where it's gone, and indeed 
 with the size of a lot of companies like apple, neither do many of the people 
 who work there either :D.
 
 Beware the grue!
 
 dark. 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question

2013-12-15 Thread Draconis

Fortunately, in over 8 years of being a Mac user, I have never had to resort to 
a sighted person for help. It’s one of the advantages of ditching Windows. :)

On Dec 15, 2013, at 11:23 AM, hayden presley hdpres...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Aside from outside sighted individuals who might just want to use it, I'd
 have a monitor simply because you never know what may or may not happen to
 the computer. I've had instances where I'll boot up my PC and have no screen
 reader for whatever reason, and it's nice to just have a screen on hand so
 that a sighted person can tell me what is on the screen, and, if required,
 remedy the situation themselves.
 
 Best Regards,
 Hayden
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward
 Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 6:25 AM
 To: Gamers Discussion list
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question
 
 Hi Josh,
 
 Well, that is just it. I know a blind user can use the Mac without a
 monitor, but I also have a son who is sighted. I try to make sure anything I
 have can be used by my son and any other sighted users in my family just in
 case they want to use it. So if the Mac Mini was just for myself I might
 consider foregoing the monitor, but as I said I do have sighted family who
 may wish to use it so a monitor is a bit of a must for them.
 
 Cheers!
 
 
 On 12/14/13, Draconis i...@dracoent.com wrote:
 Hi Tom,
 
 Unless you have someone sighted planning on using the Mac mini also, 
 you can use it perfectly well without a monitor. I did that for years. 
 You can also buy adapters for many kinds of older desktop monitors, so 
 if you already have a monitor hanging around, there's a good chance it 
 could be used with the mini.
 
 But purchasing a monitor is in no way a requirement for a VO users of 
 a Mac mini.
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list,
 send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question

First, a response to the initial question of this thread, then a few comments 
about the thread overall.

*snip*
 Just red this quote from the list:
 Start quote:
 
 First, ignoring Mac as a viable platform for blind gamers is a poor
 strategy. One year on, and Mac sales are still far exceeding Windows sales,
 even in comparison to back in the hay day of audio games, some 10 years ago
 or so. It isn't just about raw user numbers, it is about demographics and
 the quality of those users.
 End quote
 
  Maybe I am misunderstanding the quote here, but are you saying that macs
 are outselling windows machines?
  Where are you getting those numbers?
  Its been a while since I checked, but last time I took notice macs were
 around 5 or 6 percent with PC's over 80 percent.
*snip*

Yes, you are entirely misunderstanding the quote.

Mac sales of Draconis titles have far exceeded sales of Windows versions, 
including in the hay day of Draconis/Adora/ESP Softworks. I thought that would 
be clear in context, but apparently not. This is for a variety of reasons. More 
and more visually impaired users are using Macs for the superior 
experience/accessibility they provide. A disproportionate number of new 
visually impaired Mac users are in the younger demographic, which is the 
demographic that is most likely to purchase games. The Mac audio game market is 
severely under served at the moment, which makes it a market with high demand. 
Mac users, like iOS users, have a greater tendency to be willing to pay for 
software, and it is more difficult to pirate software from the App Stores. And 
the reasons go on and on.

The rest of this thread is so full of myths and misinformation about Macs and 
Apple that have been disproven countless times over the years that there 
doesn’t seem to be much point in rehashing the same old discussion. People will 
believe what they want to believe, even if it flies in the face of reality. The 
funny thing is, that the mainstream tech doesn’t even try to pass these myths 
over anymore. They are old, tired, and false, and legitimate tech journalists 
and reviewers know that, and no longer tout them…at least, not those who care 
about being reputable. PC World, for example, has for many, many times over the 
years listed MacBooks at the best laptops for running Windows. There’s a reason 
folks, and just saying that Macs are expensive does not make it true. It is 
true that Apple refuses to make junk, though.

Macs are very comparably priced to PC’s of equal quality. Apple simply chooses 
not to make cheap machines that fall apart and/or stop working in a year or 
two. Your accessibility is built in and fantastic, making them actually less 
expensive than a PC/commercial screen reader combination. Macs have far greater 
life spans than PC’s and can be upgraded to the latest versions of the OS for 
far longer periods of time than Windows machines.

The costs of maintenance and management have been covered by others in this 
thread.

You get what you pay for with almost everything in this world. You can choose 
to eat out at McDonald’s everyday, or have a nice steak dinner at a fancy 
restaurant once a month. You can choose to have the illusion of getting a 
better deal and replace your computer every two years, instead of buying a Mac 
that will last 6 years or even longer. My father has been using the same Mac 
since 2005. Since I became a Mac user in 2005, I’ve had to upgrade once, and 
I’m hard on my machines.

And, as the mainstream media has covered time and time again, using the 
“fanboy” label is just a way of dismissing those who disagree with you, and not 
having to actually have a discussion with them. To those people, enjoy your 
PC’s and the added costs they entail.

The upshot of all of this is just what I said above. You get what you pay for. 
Can you get comparable PC hardware for a comparable price? Sure. You cannot get 
comparable hardware for less though. And Mac has other advantages beyond that.

Macs are not necessarily right for everyone. People have different needs, 
desires, and so on. But the misinfo is tiresome.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question

Hi Tom,

Unless you have someone sighted planning on using the Mac mini also, you can 
use it perfectly well without a monitor. I did that for years. You can also buy 
adapters for many kinds of older desktop monitors, so if you already have a 
monitor hanging around, there’s a good chance it could be used with the mini.

But purchasing a monitor is in no way a requirement for a VO users of a Mac 
mini.

On Dec 14, 2013, at 3:56 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Davy,
 
 True, but as I recall the Mac Mini doesn't come with a monitor etc.
 That still needs to be purchased separately so right there when you
 add the cost of a monitor and whatever else you want we are looking at
 $800 to $1000 to outfit yourself with a Mac.
 
 I can't speak as to VMWare Workstation, because I don't have it, but I
 did try someone's Mac OS X disc on VMWare Player and got nowhere with
 it. So add that to the legal issues and it is a pain in the butt for a
 Windows developer to develop anything for Mac.
 
 As far as Java and Linux goes it does depend on JVM. You can have the
 official Oracle JRE, or you can get the stock open source JRE. Both
 work, but I tend to trust the official Oracle JRE more for development
 and testing.
 
 Cheers!
 


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] mac versus windows sales plus iOS question

Hi Che,

Don’t have as much time as I’d like to respond, but just a couple of quick 
thoughts/answers here.

Yeah, even if I wanted to, I’m not at liberty to release those numbers, but I 
can give you a rough idea.

For ChangeReaction 2, which is admittedly not the best test case since a 
previous version existed for Windows but not for Mac, here is what we saw:

In the first month of availability, CR2 for Mac sold roughly the same number of 
copies as the original Change Reaction did in its first three years on Windows. 
CR2 for Windows, released in April, has yet to reach what CR2 for Mac did in 
its first week.

SilverDollar, which is a slightly better test case, given it is extremely 
inexpensive and did not exist, at least not in its entirety, for either 
platform previously, has been available for Mac since January, and for Windows 
since June. The Windows version has sold, in five months, less-than a quarter 
of the number of sales we got for Mac in the first month.

I’m sure, too, that the ease of purchase/installation for Mac also plays a 
part. Purchasing games for Windows is, and will continue to be, a pain in the 
neck.

As far as the VoiceOver interface, it just sounds like you’re not even close to 
familiar with all the ins and outs of VO. What you describe as going from VS to 
Xcode is how I feel going from Xcode to VS, which is one reason why I don’t do 
the Windows development myself much these days. It’s just frankly too 
frustrating. And remember, I started as a Windows dev.

Feel free to write me off list if you want more in depth discussion of the 
technical ins and outs of iOS development. We have released our first title 
last month and have more in development.


On Dec 14, 2013, at 4:39 PM, Che Martin blindadrenal...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Josh and all,
  Fair enough, sorry I misunderstood what you were posting there, my bad.
  That is very interesting that your mac sales are far outstripping windows
 sales, I would be curious to know the numbers there, but I completely
 understand if you'd rather keep it under your hat.
  I have put up Rail Racer 2 for sale, where folks can buy the beta and get
 all upgrades as it reaches final release, and sales have been far more
 impressive than I thought they would be so far, so still plenty of folks
 wanting accessible games for windows at this point.
  I may yet get to a point where I've earned over $2 an hour for the coding
 and tech support time, hah.
  I have no idea how many of these folks are running windows on mac, that
 would be a good thing to know, I might set up a poll on audio games and see
 what the response is.
  The last time I did some informal polling, windows users outstripped mac
 users in the blind community at least 10 to 1, but those are slippery
 numbers for several reasons, including what you are saying about mac
 purchasers being more willing to fork over cash for their gaming experience.
  I completely agree that the appple hardware is more solid than the same
 price point PC hardware, the stuff is just rock solid. I have a mac book
 pro, and hav had zero issues with it.
  I just wish apple would spend some more time on their voiceover interface,
 it is to me cumbersome in a lot of areas for no good reason.  For instance,
 why two keys for VO by default?
 I realize you can use the touch pad, and the quick nav is a way better way
 to go as well, but man, some of their interface decisions are just baffling.
 Having to drill up and down into Xcode over and over and over is just
 ridiculous to me.
  Even with quick nav, I have to move my hands off the main keys, then press
 two arrow keys to drill up or down, then back again, there is just no good
 reason for this much of a waste of time, I don't get it.
  Having developed with visual studio, then going to Xcode with voiceover
 feels like going from running to crawling.
  I know a large part of that is me not being nearly as familiar with Xcode,
 but having worked with it for months now, its still frustrating, and it
 seems to me unnecessarily so.
  I am sure there are many shortcuts and work arounds that I just haven't
 learned yet, and I plan to keep knawing at it, as I am convinced the future
 of accessible gaming is in mobile platforms, and specifically iOS, at least
 until and if google gets it together for the android platform.
  I would like to ask if anyone out there has an email list or forum or
 anything they would recommend for a blind developer getting into developing
 for iOS.  I have some questions that relate directly to developing using
 voiceover, and I'm not sure the best place to ask.
  Thanks much for any advice,
  Che
 Email: blindadrenal...@gmail.com
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched

Re: [Audyssey] voiceover interface on mac, was:RE: mac versus windows sales plus iOS question


You can also use a Windows app called SharpKeys to reassign any key on the 
keyboard to be the Insert if you need that under Windows.

VoiceOver’s got a wide range of tools that have great use cases depending on 
what you need to do. I personally use a combination of Keyboard Commander, 
Trackpad Commander, QuickNav, and standard VO commands. I don’t care for the 
numpad commander, myself, but I know some people love it.

On Dec 14, 2013, at 7:08 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu listse...@me.com wrote:

 Yeah, numpad commander is your friend on OS X. I can manage just fine either 
 way--not sure what's so hard about the VO keys, myself--but the numpad 
 commander definitely makes the Apple wired keyboard worthwhile for me.  I 
 gave up the Bluetooth keyboard and trackpad in favour of just the wired 
 keyboard.  (A standard keyboard works but may or may not have enough keys to 
 be comprehensive, for example FN and a dedicated eject key, though you can 
 sort of work around that.  You will not get an Insert key for use in Windows 
 however.  Unfortunately some USB and virtual keyboards do not allow you to 
 sustain a keypress, so check it before committing to it, because there are 
 quite a few cycle keys in OS X.)
 
 Don't forget Control-Option lock, too (VO+semicolon).  That locks the VO 
 keys, which behaves a bit more rationally than QuickNav, at the expense of 
 needing to unlock when you're finished.
 
 If you don't like the amount of interacting, remember that the tab key also 
 works, and you have jump targets and hot spots to move you even more quickly. 
  You'll get used to it.  I surprise sighted people by installing software 
 faster than they can on OS X using the famously keyboard-unfriendly OS X 
 installer. :)
 
 Cheers,
 Sabahattin
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] voiceover interface on mac, was:RE: mac versus windows sales plus iOS question

Hi Theresa,

I think at least some of the complaints about the VO keys come from people who 
are playing with OS X on non-Apple hardware, where the control and alt keys are 
not side-by-side like the control and option keys are. Of course, this can be 
fixed for PC keyboards in Mac System Preferences, where you can easily reassign 
those keys, but why bother looking for a solution when you can complain on an 
email list. *grin*

On Dec 14, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Teresa Cochran vegaspipistre...@gmail.com wrote:

 i can use one finger to press VO and shift. i don’t have large fingers, but 
 I’m used to playing musical instruments, and my fingers are pretty long.
 
 Teresa
 
 Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough.--Richard P. 
 Feynman
 
 On Dec 14, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu listse...@me.com wrote:
 
 Yeah, numpad commander is your friend on OS X. I can manage just fine either 
 way--not sure what's so hard about the VO keys, myself--but the numpad 
 commander definitely makes the Apple wired keyboard worthwhile for me.  I 
 gave up the Bluetooth keyboard and trackpad in favour of just the wired 
 keyboard.  (A standard keyboard works but may or may not have enough keys to 
 be comprehensive, for example FN and a dedicated eject key, though you can 
 sort of work around that.  You will not get an Insert key for use in Windows 
 however.  Unfortunately some USB and virtual keyboards do not allow you to 
 sustain a keypress, so check it before committing to it, because there are 
 quite a few cycle keys in OS X.)
 
 Don't forget Control-Option lock, too (VO+semicolon).  That locks the VO 
 keys, which behaves a bit more rationally than QuickNav, at the expense of 
 needing to unlock when you're finished.
 
 If you don't like the amount of interacting, remember that the tab key also 
 works, and you have jump targets and hot spots to move you even more 
 quickly.  You'll get used to it.  I surprise sighted people by installing 
 software faster than they can on OS X using the famously keyboard-unfriendly 
 OS X installer. :)
 
 Cheers,
 Sabahattin
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] BGT, Mac and More

2013-12-13 Thread Draconis

Chiming in on these cross-platform topics seems to be a common theme for me. LOL

I have three points I’d like to make.

First, ignoring Mac as a viable platform for blind gamers is a poor strategy. 
One year on, and Mac sales are still far exceeding Windows sales, even in 
comparison to back in the hay day of audio games, some 10 years ago or so. It 
isn’t just about raw user numbers, it is about demographics and the quality of 
those users.

Which leads me to my second point.

There is an old saying: “Lies, damn lies, and statistics.”

This could not apply to anything as well as it does to the statement that 
Android is more popular than iOS overall. It is technically true that Android 
is used in more devices, but that is because many of those devices are not, 
strictly speaking, Android devices. That is to say, they are not being used as 
portable computing devices like iOS devices are. Kindles, Nooks, many models of 
feature phones, and countless other gadgets, all get lumped into the Android 
user numbers, even though many of those devices are so limited in scope that 
users don’t even know Android was used in their development.

This is why, in the areas that matters, iOS’s numbers are so much better than 
Android’s, despite the marketshare numbers that the media likes to quote. iOS 
consistently has over 80% of web usage from mobile devices, for example. iOS 
users are for more likely to pay for apps, too. iOS users also spend more time 
on their devices, showing greater engagement with the platform. And those kinds 
of numbers go on and on.

It is the same kind of trick as companies like Samsung use that create 
headlines in the news like: “Samsung sells 10 million Galaxy blah blah”. In 
reality, they shipped that number to resellers and warehouses. Shipped, but not 
necessarily sold to end users. Samsung never actually releases specific sales 
numbers. They only ever announce numbers of units shipped. It sounds better 
that way.

Apple, conversely, only ever announces sales to end users, and never the number 
of units shipped.

All of this, before you even start taking into account the fragmentation of 
Android, which is a disaster that Google is continuing to scramble to get a 
hold on with nothing to show for it. Less than 2% of Android devices are 
running the latest version of the OS, compared with over 70% of iOS devices. 
Android is a support nightmare for developers, much as Windows is.

Granted, that 2% number may be slightly skewed, given Google’s continued desire 
to artificially inflate the usage numbers of Android, but it is still a huge 
problem for the platform.

My final point is a technical one.

We explored a number of options for developing the Draconis Engine, including 
experimenting with various languages, techniques, and technologies. We have now 
shipped multiple titles on three platforms in the space of eleven months. Three 
Mac releases, three Windows releases, and one iOS release. (This assumes you 
count the Show Cases for Mac/Windows.)

The Draconis Engine was created with C++ primarily, with very tiny portions 
written in Objective-C to cover OS X and iOS GUI, and small portions in C# for 
Windows.

While C++, like any language, has advantages and disadvantages, if you are 
interested in cross-platform development, particularly game development, we 
found that the relatively minor trade offs were worth the huge advantages we 
gained by going this route.

Just about all other cross-platform methods, like Java or Python, come with 
huge disadvantages, as I believe Tom has mostly already covered.

Hope this is helpful.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Change Reaction2 and Silver Dollar from Draconis Entertainment.

2013-12-02 Thread Draconis

Hello Gary and all,

Change Reaction 2, SilverDollar, and the Draconis ShowCase have all had their 
installers updated to be compatible with Windows 8.1 as of this morning.

Enjoy.

On Nov 26, 2013, at 9:09 AM, Gary Price(Gmail) gazwpr...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello everyone, this is Gary Price here.
 
 Please can anyone try and install if they have these:
 Change Reaction version2 and Silver Dollar from Draconis Entertainment on 
 Windows8.1?
 You should receive the following message, which is what I'm getting:
 Change Reaction Setup requires Microsoft .net Framework2.0 client Profile. 
 Please use Windows Update to get this version, then re-run the Change 
 reaction setup program. OK button.
 
 Now thanks to a standalone installer I downloaded for .net framework, I found 
 out that its already built into Windows8.1
 
 If anyone else can duplicate, can you report it? I have done this but had no 
 response.
 
 Thanks very much I look forward to any responses.
 
 Regards.
 Gary Price.
 -- Gary Price
 Sent from Thunderbird on desktop.
 
 E-mail and Facebook:
 gazwpr...@gmail.com
 
 Skype/MSN:
 gazwpr...@googlemail.com
 
 Twitter:
 http://twitter.com/gazwprice
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Economics was This message is for Dark

2013-11-22 Thread Draconis


Just a few thoughts on this thread where regards Apple and developers on their 
platforms, as Draconis is.

The restrictions of the App Stores for iOS and Mac have both pros and cons for 
both end users and developers alike. There are so many ways in which iOS is a 
better mobile platform for end users and developers, though, that there is 
really no competition between it and Android. There is a reason why nearly all 
developers create apps for iOS first, and many, if not most, are exclusive to 
iOS. The problems with the restrictions are largely overblown, and only impact 
certain types of apps.

The relaxed approach of the Android Play store has made it a haven for malware 
and the unwillingness of Android users, overall, to pay for apps a dead-end for 
many developers. That is before the support and compatibility nightmares of 
Android are even taken into account.

Your mileage may vary. This is what we have found to be true for us.

We have gone through the Apple submission and review process for three apps 
now. ChangeReaction was rejected on the first try with a request to make a very 
minor addition to the apps main window. Ultimately, this change turned out to 
serve us well and saved us some headaches going forward. Both SilverDollar and 
DoItWrite were accepted with no problems whatsoever, which given the size, 
complexity, and depth of the Draconis Engine we found to be a little surprising.

As for your preferences in programming, Tom. All of our apps are 99% or more 
C++. If you do not like Objective-C, you can avoid using it for the majority of 
the app. It’s true that you cannot eliminate it entirely, but it is easy to 
minimize its use to an large degree.

It is very easy to throw stones at Apple for the App Store restrictions, but 
the reality is that there are very good reasons for the vast majority of them. 
(Notice I do not say all.) People like to exaggerate perceived problems for 
drama, headlines, attention, or to further their own agenda. I find it ironic 
that Dark, and plenty of other people, talk about situations like how  George 
Orwell’s intentions with 1984 were misrepresented in an introduction to the 
book, then promote those who do the same with things like the App Store 
restrictions.

All this being said, I certainly don’t agree with all of Apple’s rules and 
regulations. But they grow less restrictive all the time as solutions to the 
technical reasons for many of them are developed and released in iOS.

On Nov 22, 2013, at 4:37 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Dark,
 
 I don't necessarily equate left wing political views with
 authoritarian regimes such as Stalinism, but I can certainly
 understand why some might hold that view.  A lot of us who grew up
 during the Cold War listened to the mainstream media which equated
 Communism with Stalinism. When people listened to World News Tonight
 or CBS World News on TV the news anchor did not make any distinction
 between Carl Marx's views from Lennon's ideas or Stalin's. They were
 all commies and that was that. It wasn't until I took Political
 Science in college that I began to realize there were different types
 of communism, and that Marxism and Stalinism were very different in
 practice and in philosophy.
 
 On the issue of technology I think the fundamental issue here is you
 look at things purely as an end user. You don't care how it is made,
 don't care about the technical aspects behind how it works, but are
 only concerned with the results. That is okay because generally the
 average person has no clue how their iPhone or PC works. All they care
 about is the results or the bottom line such as playing their favorite
 games, being able to write reports and term papers, browsing the web,
 read/writing e-mail, and so on. Everything else is a secondary
 concern.
 
 For someone like myself I am not just a user. Sure, I use my computer
 for playing mp3s, browse the web, read and write e-mails, play games,
 and so forth, but as a developer that requires that I know something
 of how the software works and to know a bit more about hardware
 etc.That gives me a drastically different view of the software  that I
 am using, and about the programming languages, APIs, and other
 technologies used to develop said software.
 
 To give you an example you mentioned Python. As with everything else
 in life it has its pros and cons.It is a fairly easy language to
 learn, and in some cases makes cross-platform development easier. On
 the other hand  it was primarily designed for open source development
 so security is an issue for commercial developers, execution speeds
 still are not quite as good as using a native language like C++, and
 not all the cross-platform APIs available for Python are as good as
 their native counterparts. It is for this reason I am not sure I would
 develop audio games in Python, because I find some of my possible
 choices lacking for what I'd want to do with it. The point being

Re: [Audyssey] Draconis Releases DoItWrite 1.0

2013-11-18 Thread Draconis

Hi Phil,

Yeah, on the rating thing…we always fill out the rating form on the 
conservative side for the Apple App Stores.

Multi character attacks might be something we could look into for a future 
update.

We’re very proud to have the Draconis Engine included in shipping products 
across all three target platforms now. Much more in the works.

On Nov 18, 2013, at 7:59 AM, Phil Vlasak phi...@bex.net wrote:

 Hi Josh,
 Wow, a new Space Invader's game built into DoItWrite!
 I had to laugh when I read,
 Rated 9+ for the following:
 Infrequent/Mild Cartoon or Fantasy Violence
 Maybe they are commenting on the smart-alicky and menacing voice that 
 accompanies the game.
 It almost sounds like the same Bowl-Ing-Ball voice from Ten Pin Alley.
 To make the game more difficult, how about dropping two or three different 
 letters at the same time?
 You would hear,
 G., K.,
 G. K.
 G, K,
 G K
 GK
 boom.
 smiles,
 Phil
 
 
 - Original Message - From: Chris H christopher...@gmail.com
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 11:55 AM
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Draconis Releases DoItWrite 1.0
 
 
 Bought the game earlier and wow it is very good indeed. This will certainly 
 challenge me when learning to handwrite. I can handwrite after being 
 encouraged to at school but it's squiggly at best. Also drawing on the 
 screen is something relatively new to most of us I think. Well done guys and 
 keep it up!
 
 E-mail Facebook and iMessage
 christopher...@gmail.com
 
 On 17/11/2013 15:38, dark wrote:
 Wow, sounds like a good and interesting thing, people always say my
 signature looks chinese, it'll be interesting to see if this improves it.
 
 Is there an audio podcast or demonstration that people could have a
 listen to before trying the game?
 
 All the best,
 
 Drk.
 - Original Message - From: Draconis i...@dracoent.com
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 10:42 PM
 Subject: [Audyssey] Draconis Releases DoItWrite 1.0
 
 
 Greetings gamers,
 
 We are pleased to announce the immediate availability of our first
 application for iOS!
 
 DoItWrite is an educational tool and game to teach visually impaired
 users of iOS 7's VoiceOver screen reader how to draw printed letters
 and numbers for use with VoiceOver's handwriting feature in iOS 7.
 
 Learn to draw lowercase letters, uppercase letters;;, and numbers for
 use with iOS 7's VoiceOver handwriting feature!
 
 This app is primarily intended for the blind or visually impaired,
 teachers or instructors of same, and other users of iOS 7's VoiceOver
 screen reader.
 
 Many blind or visually impaired people are not familiar with the
 shapes of printed letters or numbers. DoItWrite teaches you how to
 draw them in a simple way that has the best chance of being correctly
 recognized by VoiceOver, even if you have never learned the shapes of
 the characters previously. Once you get them down, practice your speed
 and accuracy with a fun game to blast characters as they tumble down
 the screen!
 
 * Learn how to activate the VoiceOver handwriting feature in iOS 7
 * Learn how to draw lowercase and uppercase letters, as well as
 numbers in a simple and accurate way.
 * Practice your newly acquired skills by blasting letters and numbers
 as they tumble down the screen.
 * Use the app to improve your onscreen typing skills by using the
 keyboard during game play.
 * Automatic feedback and coach via audio queues and speech output.
 * DoItWrite automatically detects when VoiceOver is not running, and
 permits the tutorial to be browsed with the onscreen keyboard. Great
 for sighted teachers and tutors!
 * Share your game scores with others.
 * Many ways to customize your learning experience.
 
 DoItWrite is available on the iOS App Store for $1.99 USD. (Prices
 will vary for your local currency.)
 
 http://appstore.com/doitwrite
 
 For more information, visit us online at
 http://DracoEnt.com
 
 Happy gaming.
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the
 list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org

[Audyssey] Draconis Releases DoItWrite 1.0

2013-11-16 Thread Draconis

Greetings gamers,

We are pleased to announce the immediate availability of our first application 
for iOS!

DoItWrite is an educational tool and game to teach visually impaired users of 
iOS 7's VoiceOver screen reader how to draw printed letters and numbers for use 
with VoiceOver's handwriting feature in iOS 7.

Learn to draw lowercase letters, uppercase letters;;, and numbers for use with 
iOS 7's VoiceOver handwriting feature!

This app is primarily intended for the blind or visually impaired, teachers or 
instructors of same, and other users of iOS 7's VoiceOver screen reader.

Many blind or visually impaired people are not familiar with the shapes of 
printed letters or numbers. DoItWrite teaches you how to draw them in a simple 
way that has the best chance of being correctly recognized by VoiceOver, even 
if you have never learned the shapes of the characters previously. Once you get 
them down, practice your speed and accuracy with a fun game to blast characters 
as they tumble down the screen!

* Learn how to activate the VoiceOver handwriting feature in iOS 7
* Learn how to draw lowercase and uppercase letters, as well as numbers in a 
simple and accurate way.
* Practice your newly acquired skills by blasting letters and numbers as they 
tumble down the screen.
* Use the app to improve your onscreen typing skills by using the keyboard 
during game play.
* Automatic feedback and coach via audio queues and speech output.
* DoItWrite automatically detects when VoiceOver is not running, and permits 
the tutorial to be browsed with the onscreen keyboard. Great for sighted 
teachers and tutors!
* Share your game scores with others.
* Many ways to customize your learning experience.

DoItWrite is available on the iOS App Store for $1.99 USD. (Prices will vary 
for your local currency.)

http://appstore.com/doitwrite

For more information, visit us online at
http://DracoEnt.com

Happy gaming.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Game: Over.

2013-09-16 Thread Draconis

Now now, Scott, haven't we told you…those poultry XP systems can't hold up to 
the riggers of a 10 second audio game with the kind of state-of-the-art audio 
quality that Game Over has. I mean, we'd have to rewrite a whole 2.6 lines of 
code to make it work with DirectSound on your outdated clunker, and frankly, we 
just don't have the time to properly test it with a big enough pool of people 
to make it worth our time. Upgrade your system already! Sheesh!

*grin*

On Sep 16, 2013, at 6:19 PM, Scott Chesworth scottcheswo...@gmail.com wrote:

 So, any chance of an XP version?
 
 Hehehh.
 
 Scott
 
 On 9/16/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote:
 Phil:  Have you tried this game?  If so, how long did the game last?  Hmm.
 That's what I thought.  (ornery grin)
 
 ---
 Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.
 - Original Message -
 From: Phil Vlasak phi...@bex.net
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 3:32 PM
 Subject: [Audyssey] Game: Over.
 
 
 Games we wouldn't like to play:
 by Phil Vlasak.
 
 Game Over: The world's shortest cool audio game for IOS.
 Well, there's not much to say about it other than I love the voice. You
 just need to turn Voiceover off, listen, and touch the screen, and the
 rest will make sense. It's a nice small 10 second game which is enjoyable
 
 to play through the first one hundred times.
 
 Developer: WaterOnTheBrain Productions
 Description:
 A game that takes place entirely through sound. Over is a piece of
 extremely short experimental storytelling. The narrative is told from the
 
 point of view of an angry man in an authoritarian society.
 The game voice says Game Started. then it takes five seconds examining
 you through your camera, microphone and motion sensor. It detects your
 breathing, heart rate, eye dilation and expression, determining if you are
 
 worthy to continue.
 If you are not up to this challenge, the game will simply say, Game Over.
 Most people are not in the correct state of Zen. What is the purpose of a
 
 game that most cann't play? It teaches you the futility of life, that no
 matter what you do eventually, the, game, is, over.
 
 Features:
 Stunning Retina-ready HD graphics.
 Up to ten seconds of game play.
 Some angry guy talking at you.
 No In-App Purchases, ratings nagging, or other interruptions.
 No badges, achievements, or integration with game center.
 Makes you feel like a sophisticated patron of the minimalist arts.
 A serious, emotionally draining plot line.
 You'll look silly while you poke at the screen and yell, trying to find
 out how to get the game to play.
 Game playable only on devices with IOS 8 and above.
 
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the
 list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users

Hi Tom,

I couldn't resist responding to this with a little humor, and a prime example 
of why Microsoft is so far behind. My responses throughout your message…

On Sep 12, 2013, at 2:49 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:
 *snip*
 The new Search feature is great. I can open the Start Menu and type
 the name of a file, folder, program, etc and have it find it in short
 order. I can often open the Start Menu and type Winword into the
 search box and have it fire up Word. So the Search box doubles as a
 type of run dialog which is cool. This works in Windows 8 as well as
 Windows 7 making it unnecessary to locate any icon if you know the
 name of the program.
 *snip*

Mac OS X has had this feature since 2005. It's called Spotlight, and can be 
invoked at any time with a single key command.

*snip*
 Pinning programs to the Taskbar is another one of those features that
 doesn't seem to be important to an XP user such as yourself, but I
 personally love it. I can pin all of my favorite programs like
 Firefox, Thunderbird, Visual C++, to the Taskbar meaning I can launch
 them directly from the Taskbar rather than from the Windows 7 Start
 Menu or the Start Screen in Windows 8. Even cooler there are hot keys
 assigned to those programs meaning I can use them to jump directly to
 that program or Window with a single keystroke rather than alt+tabbing
 through all the open Windows on the Taskbar.
*snip*

Mac has had this feature since about 2001 or so, can't remember the exact date.
 
*snip*
 Another feature Windows 7 and Windows 8 has that frequently is useful
 to me is being able to burn data DVDs without having to pay for a
 third-party software like Nero. All I have to do is select the files
 and folders I want to burn, drag and drop them on the DVD drive, and
 click on Write Disc. That's both simple and actually saves money not
 having to pay $75 USD for Nero etc.
 *snip*

Mac has had this feature since at least 2005…probably longer.

*snip*
 A feature that I frequently use, when programming or dictating long
 documents and emails, is Microsoft's speech recognition. Its built
 into Windows 7 and Windows 8, and gets better every version that comes
 out. Its superior to the Speech Recognition that comes with XP, and it
 really helps save time when dictating a huge block of programming
 code, dictating a long email, or whatever.You should try it some time.
 Would you rather type a long email message or simply dictate it to
 your computer by voice?
 *snip*

Mac has had this since 2012, and theirs is powered by Nuance, the same company 
which powers Dragon Dictate.

*snip*
 Something else I particularly like about Windows 8 is the introduction
 of apps to the Windows OS. Apps are basically miniature programs that
 run in the background all the time, and have a specific feature such
 as displaying today's headline news, the weather, stock reports, and
 various other things of that sort. Sure, I recognize apps aren't for
 everyone, but for me personally I'd sooner have them than not have
 them because I can just click on the weather app, for example, and get
 an idea of the current temp, a weather forecast, and not have to go
 online to look that information up.
 *snip*

Mac has had this since 2005. They are called Widgets.

*snip*
 Although, I don't have a lot of experience with touchscreens and
 Windows 8 I know Windows 8 has touchscreen support, and NVDA 2013.2
 works with touchscreens too. I fully expect the next desktop or laptop
 I buy will have a touchscreen and I like the idea of simply pointing
 at the screen and double tapping an icon rather than tabbing all over
 creation to find it and then pressing enter etc.
 *snip*

Mac has had multi-touch trackpads, which are more practical for desk/laptop 
use, since about 2008. Try holding your arms up for significant periods to 
touch a screen which is vertically positioned in front of you,a nd they are 
going to get very tired, very fast. Touch screens are not the best way to use a 
PC. However, VoiceOver on the Mac will turn your trackpad into a virtual touch 
screen, and, if you wish, you can use your Mac in a very similar way to how you 
use your iPhone or iPad. VoiceOver has done this since 2009.

*snip*
 Add to those features that Windows 7 and Windows 8 have better
 security features such as User Account Control, Windows Defender,
 Microsoft Security Essentials, I felt upgrading was well worth the
 money I paid for it. That might not personally be worth it to you, but
 it was for me and a lot of others.
 *snip*

Mac has many similar technologies, including Gatekeeper, and a kill switch that 
can disable malicious software remotely.

I just find it sad how far Microsoft is behind in technology these days. I have 
some fun at their expense at times, but the industry is better with 
competition, and Microsoft isn't that. Fortunately, Android is at least, 
despite its infinite number of problems, a legitimate competitor.

You have to admit, it is

Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users

You can get cheaper tablets than the iPad, but you get what you pay for. 
There's a reason why more than 90% of tablet web traffic is from iPads and not 
Android…people don't actually use their Android tablets in general. Eventually, 
hopefully, someone will make a decent Android tablet, but that hasn't happened 
yet. And that doesn't even take into consideration that 80% of mobile malware 
is Android and only 0.7 targets iOS. Android is a death trap at the moment, but 
I hope that Google cleans that up sooner than later. Google needs to get 
serious about security.

On Sep 13, 2013, at 10:29 AM, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote:

 also Linux users have enjoyed those features for years also since 2005 or so 
 onwards as well. Touch-screen support in ubuntu? not yet. but if you want it 
 you can get a modern jellybean android tablet a lot cheaper than an iPad.
 
 sent from my vinux4 linux laptop
 
 On 09/13/2013 09:43 AM, Draconis wrote:
 Hi Tom,
 
 I couldn't resist responding to this with a little humor, and a prime 
 example of why Microsoft is so far behind. My responses throughout your 
 message…
 
 On Sep 12, 2013, at 2:49 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:
 *snip*
 The new Search feature is great. I can open the Start Menu and type
 the name of a file, folder, program, etc and have it find it in short
 order. I can often open the Start Menu and type Winword into the
 search box and have it fire up Word. So the Search box doubles as a
 type of run dialog which is cool. This works in Windows 8 as well as
 Windows 7 making it unnecessary to locate any icon if you know the
 name of the program.
 *snip*
 Mac OS X has had this feature since 2005. It's called Spotlight, and can be 
 invoked at any time with a single key command.
 
 *snip*
 Pinning programs to the Taskbar is another one of those features that
 doesn't seem to be important to an XP user such as yourself, but I
 personally love it. I can pin all of my favorite programs like
 Firefox, Thunderbird, Visual C++, to the Taskbar meaning I can launch
 them directly from the Taskbar rather than from the Windows 7 Start
 Menu or the Start Screen in Windows 8. Even cooler there are hot keys
 assigned to those programs meaning I can use them to jump directly to
 that program or Window with a single keystroke rather than alt+tabbing
 through all the open Windows on the Taskbar.
 *snip*
 
 Mac has had this feature since about 2001 or so, can't remember the exact 
 date.
 *snip*
 Another feature Windows 7 and Windows 8 has that frequently is useful
 to me is being able to burn data DVDs without having to pay for a
 third-party software like Nero. All I have to do is select the files
 and folders I want to burn, drag and drop them on the DVD drive, and
 click on Write Disc. That's both simple and actually saves money not
 having to pay $75 USD for Nero etc.
 *snip*
 Mac has had this feature since at least 2005…probably longer.
 
 *snip*
 A feature that I frequently use, when programming or dictating long
 documents and emails, is Microsoft's speech recognition. Its built
 into Windows 7 and Windows 8, and gets better every version that comes
 out. Its superior to the Speech Recognition that comes with XP, and it
 really helps save time when dictating a huge block of programming
 code, dictating a long email, or whatever.You should try it some time.
 Would you rather type a long email message or simply dictate it to
 your computer by voice?
 *snip*
 Mac has had this since 2012, and theirs is powered by Nuance, the same 
 company which powers Dragon Dictate.
 
 *snip*
 Something else I particularly like about Windows 8 is the introduction
 of apps to the Windows OS. Apps are basically miniature programs that
 run in the background all the time, and have a specific feature such
 as displaying today's headline news, the weather, stock reports, and
 various other things of that sort. Sure, I recognize apps aren't for
 everyone, but for me personally I'd sooner have them than not have
 them because I can just click on the weather app, for example, and get
 an idea of the current temp, a weather forecast, and not have to go
 online to look that information up.
 *snip*
 Mac has had this since 2005. They are called Widgets.
 
 *snip*
 Although, I don't have a lot of experience with touchscreens and
 Windows 8 I know Windows 8 has touchscreen support, and NVDA 2013.2
 works with touchscreens too. I fully expect the next desktop or laptop
 I buy will have a touchscreen and I like the idea of simply pointing
 at the screen and double tapping an icon rather than tabbing all over
 creation to find it and then pressing enter etc.
 *snip*
 Mac has had multi-touch trackpads, which are more practical for desk/laptop 
 use, since about 2008. Try holding your arms up for significant periods to 
 touch a screen which is vertically positioned in front of you,a nd they are 
 going to get very tired, very fast. Touch screens are not the best way to 
 use a PC

Re: [Audyssey] paying for upgrades - Re: A Note to XP users

Hi Charles and Tom,

I think it's a catch 22, especially in the case of the remaining games started 
by James North, since they were ordered so long ago. You're going to have a 
sizable portion of customers who, through necessity or what have you, have 
upgraded from XP, and those who have not. Both groups would have valid 
arguments  as to why their OS of choice should be supported without additional 
cost. The games were originally offered for XP, so XP users would demand 
support, but the games could have reasonably have been expected to be delivered 
long before there were three more major versions of Windows released, giving 
those who have upgraded a valid argument to be provided a game that is tailored 
to the newer OS's.

You're definitely one of the more reasonable users in terms of being willing to 
pay for upgrades. ChangeReaction 2 has generated some complaints from those 
upset that it was not a free upgrade, and from others who felt that, if they 
bought the Mac or Windows version, they should be entitled to a free version of 
the game for the other platform, too. And all of that after we decided to offer 
it for $9.99.

I don't envy Tom in the spot he's in. All of these problems, coupled with the 
attitudes of some in the community, is why we neither take pre-orders, nor 
offer details in advance of what we're working on.

Speaking of which…I need to end this message here, so I can get back to coding 
our next new title. It's coming out very nicely. *evil grin*

On Sep 13, 2013, at 12:11 PM, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote:

 Wrong, at least in my case.  If a game was to originally be developed that 
 required XP, and I purchased it, and is now available for users of Windows 8 
 which I have just installed, I would actually expect to pay a small upgrade 
 fee to get the game I now need.  If the developer does not charge for the 
 upgrade, so much the better, but I would not complain if they did, unless it 
 was stated in the documentation included in the original game that there 
 would be no charge for updates.
 
 ---
 Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.
 - Original Message - From: Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 8:32 AM
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
 
 
 Now there is a joke if not a real slap in the face. you might want to think 
 about this one Thomas. Yes give it xp support and build for the other 
 version as you wish. Charles and those wanting to stay on xp can. Now here 
 is the good part. Charles stated that they will pay for the better version 
 even if they already own the game for xp. you know and I know that will 
 never happen. The crowd on this list gripe about releases, requirements and 
 any problem or bug that comes up with a game. So like other companies build 
 for what is being sold. When there boxes die or a virus hits from lack of 
 support and they have to get new. You won't have to listen to them say but 
 it only works on xp. I have to give you some credit here Tom, because your 
 one of the few programmers out there that tries to hear from all. Your 
 willingness to take suggestions. Most out there program and support what 
 they write. They don't let the community tell them what goes in a game, how 
 to sell or what platform to build for. So the community should be grateful 
 for you, but when they do have to buy that copy that runs on current 
 versions of ops. That is when they will be sending the hate mail and those 
 on this list know who you are! So just stop the thread because xp users are 
 going to stay. The rest of us that moved on will remember we are not paying 
 for the game twice.
 
 At 06:39 PM 9/12/2013, you wrote:
 That's why there should be a version that will take advantage of the newer 
 technology in the works, slowly being developed, as well as one that will 
 work on XP that is more quickly developed.  If we like the XP compatible 
 version and we must migrate to the newer OS, we will gladly pay for the 
 newer version that will probably have better performance and more options.
 
 ---
 Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.
 - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 5:21 PM
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
 
 
 Hi Charles,
 
 Smile. I was only joking. I wouldn't actually do that precisely for
 that reason. USA Games needs to make money, and unfortunately we are
 held hostage to a user base that will not upgrade to a newer OS for
 whatever reason. The only thing we can do as developers is try to
 support both as for as long as we can , and when that is no longer
 possible then we have to make a judgment based on what will be best
 for the product long term rather than the short term.
 
 I can tell you right now selecting XP because it has the most
 customers right

Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users


No. Quite apart from being a pain in general, the fragmentation of Android 
makes achieving accessibility, particularly of 3rd-party applications, at a 
level on par with iOS close to impossible. Android has made strides in the 
right direction, and for that I applaud them, but they are unlikely to match 
iOS in the foreseeable future. That has less to do with the work they've done, 
and more to do with inherent flaws in the OS, how it is handled, and the level 
of fragmentation of the operating system.

On Sep 13, 2013, at 3:48 PM, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote:

 isn't the latest jellybean 4.3 or whatever it is quite as accessible as the 
 iPhone? I was told skype works now and all kinds of stuff that wasn't 
 accessible is now useable.
 
 sent from my vinux4 linux laptop
 
 On 09/13/2013 02:23 PM, Thomas Ward wrote:
 Hi Josh,
 
 I don't know if you have ever owned or used an Android Tablet, but I
 personally think they aren't worth the price. The accessibility is
 quite poor compared to iPods, Android is wide open to viruses and
 other malware, and they can't be updated as easily as an iPod. As
 someone use to say, you buy cheap you get cheap. In this case that
 holds true.
 
 Cheers!
 
 On 9/13/13, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote:
 also Linux users have enjoyed those features for years also since 2005
 or so onwards as well. Touch-screen support in ubuntu? not yet. but if
 you want it you can get a modern jellybean android tablet a lot cheaper
 than an iPad.
 
 sent from my vinux4 linux laptop
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 .
 
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users

2013-09-12 Thread Draconis


And actually, Apple's Mountain Lion OS was only $19.99 for the upgrade.

They haven't announced pricing for Mavoricks yet, but I expect it will be the 
same or less as Mountain Lion.

On Sep 11, 2013, at 11:46 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:

 hi Cara,
 
 Yeah, that is a big difference. I think I paid $40 for the Windows 8
 upgrade which is cheaper than usual, but Apple still  has them beat
 and Windows 8 was on sale. LOL!
 
 Cheers!
 
 
 On 9/11/13, Cara Quinn caraqu...@caraquinn.com wrote:
 Actually there is a diff between MS and Apple since people are chatting
 about money being an issue for upgrading.
 
 Apple only charges $30 USD to upgrade your OS.
 
 I'd love to see MS try that.
 
 Smiles,
 
 Cara :)
 ---
 View my Online Portfolio at:
 
 http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn
 
 Follow me on Twitter!
 
 https://twitter.com/ModelCara
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users

2013-09-12 Thread Draconis

Hi Tom and Charles,

The idea of developing for the majority of customers, assuming that the 
majority are using XP, falls apart when you take a long-term view. Like it or 
not, everyone is going to have to abandon XP sooner or later, and probably 
sooner. No more updates means no fixes to newly discovered security holes, for 
example. If you don't care about viruses/your personal information, then I 
guess you can use it, but I think most do care bout such things.

So, developing for the majority of customers who are currently using XP, means 
that you're creating software that, in very short order, will be useless at 
worst or require significant rewriting at best. It's kinda like saying, I'm 
going to buy this candy bar because I can enjoy it right *now*…and I won't 
worry about the fact that I'm spending my bus fair to get home tonight.

The real problem here is that many, many users are mistakenly convinced that 
they can use XP forever, just as many were convinced that they could use DOS 
forever 15-20 years ago.

As for cost, between VoiceOver, NVDA, and Orca, spending money on a screen 
reader is a choice, not a necessity for most users. There are always 
exceptions…but they are just that…exceptions. I haven't bought a new version of 
a commercial screen reader in 7 years, and haven't missed them a bit. I use 
VoiceOver on Mac primarily, and NVDA if I have to use Windows.

We will support XP if we can do so without seriously crippling our ability to 
develop new titles. When that day inevitably comes, we will move on. 
Fortunately, the computer market is shifting, and a significant portion of our 
customers are Mac users, where this problem is pretty much moot. For about $20 
you can upgrade to the latest version of the OS, and your screen reader is 
included.

Since Mac sales have been significantly better than Windows ones…we're not too 
worried about it these days. After all, eventually, Windows users will be 
forced to abandon XP, and when they are, we'll be there…whether it is on a new 
version of Windows, Mac, or iOS device.

On Sep 11, 2013, at 7:05 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Charles,
 
 I see your point, but as a matter of fact Windows is not my primary
 operating system. I use Linux on most of my computers so for me
 upgrading to Windows 8.1 is a small investment because it would only
 be for one machine.
 
 However, to answer your question it would depend on how much of a
 difference between Windows 8.1 and say this fictional 8.2 would be. If
 there were features and updates I could not get in any other way and I
 wanted them sure I'd buy it if I had the money. If not I might wait a
 year or two to upgrade.
 
 The thing is you are comparing apples and oranges because the
 situation of Windows XP and Windows 8 is a totally different
 situation. XP is many years behind Windows 8 in terms of features and
 components and will no longer be maintained. Upgrading from Windows 8
 to Windows 8.1 is a fairly minor upgrade in the scheme of things, and
 if there was such a thing as Windows 8.2 it would likely be a minor
 upgrade as well. So not upgrading would be less serious than the one
 you are in with XP.
 
 Cheers!
 
 
 On 9/11/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote:
 You're thinking of getting Windows 8.1.  Can 8.2 be far behind?  If you want
 
 to stay current, here you go again.  This might be an exaggerated example,
 but the same principle applies.  Microsoft has to keep making money, and you
 
 have to give it to them.  It's a never ending problem.  And who gets more
 benefit from it?  Microsoft.
 
 ---
 Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] game code/tying to a system/activation rant!

2013-09-05 Thread Draconis

Hi Tom and all,

Very much agree with these points, which was why we opted for an online 
registration system that gives the Windows user the power to 
activate/deactivate machines as needed. Fortunately, this problem is a 
non-issue on Mac OS X.

I, too, generally avoid software that has been locked too hardware and requires 
a human to regenerate the key. There are just too many possible points of 
failure in that arrangement. I think it'd be good for the industry to see 
developers move toward a more modern system, and ditch the currently standard 
method of hardware code and requests for emailed keys. In these days of app 
stores, automatic downloads, and instant gratification, the market won't 
support the old model forever…probably not even all that much longer. It's too 
frustrating and antiquated.


On Sep 4, 2013, at 7:50 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Dave,
 
 I know the feeling, and agree it is extremely infuriating and
 aggravating. It is for precisely that reason I will never resort to
 system specific product activations. I think it harms the customer
 more than it does the pirate who can find ways around such measures in
 any case. I have even decided not to purchase some software because of
 that kind of product security.
 
 Cheers!
 
 
 On 9/4/13, David Mehler dave.meh...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello Everyone,
 
 I'm about to rant, so if your not in to that please delete this message.
 
 I am so annoyed right now at companies, who do things to tighten their
 security and make their products unusable. In the old days you had a
 key and that was it. Now you've got to register your product, then
 activate it, and god forbid you don't have an internet connection up
 at the time.
 
 The reason I'm on this kick is I purchased a game several years back
 from a accessible game company, I won't name them, and played it very
 well on my 32 bit xp system. Well, they tie the game to that system,
 so that when I took that purchased game via USB thumb drive and
 installed it on the new box, the key which I had when I purchased does
 not work.
 
 I'm therefor unable to play in anything other than demo mode, and the
 dev won't get back to me.
 
 Infuriating and aggravating!
 
 Dave.
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Pinball help

2013-08-15 Thread Draconis

Adora Entertainment discontinued scoreboard support for Pinball Classic in 2004 
or so. The way it was initially developed by James North was going to require a 
significant investment of time to rewrite for the more modern scoreboards we 
have been using since.

As we continue to modernize older titles and release new ones, we are exploring 
the possibility of introducing modern scoreboard and social gaming features to 
these titles, but we have nothing to announce at this time.

On Aug 14, 2013, at 1:35 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Steven,
 
 I am not completely certain about this, but I am not sure the Pinball
 Classic scoreboards are still available for that game. To be certain
 you should ask Draconis support as they'd be the best to help you and
 answer this question.
 
 Cheers!
 
 
 On 8/14/13, steven earge...@gmail.com wrote:
 Dear Audyssey,
 I recently purchased E.S.P. Pinball Classic from Draconis Entertainment.
 However, I have a problem. I can not send my scores to the Scoreboards. Can
 you please give me some suggestions of what I can do to resolve this issue.
 
 Thank you for your time,
 Steven
 
 steven
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Are there any programmers out there that can help with c++ questions?

2013-07-25 Thread Draconis


I've directed many newcomers to LearnCPP.com, which is a good resource for 
learning some of the basics of C++ coding.

HTH.

On Jul 21, 2013, at 1:30 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi James,
 
 I don't know of anything that teaches you to develop in C++
 specifically from a blind persons point of view, but any good book
 should teach you the basics without getting too visual. One book I
 would highly recommend is Teach Yourself C++ in 21 Days by Jesse
 Liberty. The 4th edition of the book is all up to date, and takes you
 from absolute newbie to an intermediate user of the language. It is
 laid out as a three week course, IE 21 days, in which you begin with
 simple Hello World type programs and work your way up to more advanced
 applications. One place you could read the book is on the Safari site
 http://safari.oreilly.com
 with a 14 day free trial subscription.
 
 
 Cheers!
 
 On 7/21/13, James Bartlett jab8...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi
 
First let me say thank you for replying. I've tried to research the c++
 
 code but I can't make heads or tails of it. All the stuff that I do find is
 
 all visual and makes no sense. is there a place that I can go to research
 where to get started from a blind persons point?
 
 thank you again bfn
 James
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

[Audyssey] Windows Updates for Several Products

2013-06-21 Thread Draconis

Greetings gamers,

We’ve updated ChangeReaction for Windows to V2.1.1.9, SilverDollar for Windows 
to V1.0.0.1, and the Draconis Show Case for Windows to V1.0.0.4. These updates 
address an issue that could, in some cases, cause the applications not to 
launch on 64-bit Windows systems. If you have experienced this problem, please 
install the appropriate updates for your product or products.

If you do not use a 64-bit version of Windows, or have not experienced this 
issue, then these updates will not impact you in any way.

Happy gaming.

---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

[Audyssey] SilverDollar for Windows and next-generation game trials are here

2013-06-15 Thread Draconis

Greetings gamers,

A couple of announcements that should please many of you.

Draconis Entertainment is pleased to announce the release of SilverDollar for 
Windows! Previously available for Mac OS X, this collection of mini games 
returns gamers to the SilverDollar Saloon, the popular watering hole for 
outlaws and gunslingers alike, featured in many Draconis titles. Start a brawl, 
prove yourself a gunslinger, or knock back a couple while trying your luck at 
the one-armed bandit. SilverDollar is available for just $1.99 from the 
Draconis website. DracoEnt.com

Additionally, we are now offering a way to try out titles created with the 
next-generation Draconis game engine with the release of the Draconis Show 
Case. This stand-alone application provides information, audio demonstrations, 
and a chance to try out some of the features and game play of next-generation 
Draconis games. You can find out more at the Trials page. 
http://dracoent.com/trials

Happy gaming!


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] SilverDollar for Windows and next-generation game trials are here

2013-06-15 Thread Draconis


Not sure I entirely understand your question. If you mean the Show Case app, it 
will be updated to demo other titles as they are released, and we will probably 
release multiple volumes over time to keep the downloads from being unwieldy. 
We do not pre-announce titles, and have no plans to change that.

On Jun 15, 2013, at 12:07 PM, Will will.d.lo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Will it eventually letters show titles that our upcoming
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On 15 Jun 2013, at 16:27, Draconis i...@dracoent.com wrote:
 
 Greetings gamers,
 
 A couple of announcements that should please many of you.
 
 Draconis Entertainment is pleased to announce the release of SilverDollar 
 for Windows! Previously available for Mac OS X, this collection of mini 
 games returns gamers to the SilverDollar Saloon, the popular watering hole 
 for outlaws and gunslingers alike, featured in many Draconis titles. Start a 
 brawl, prove yourself a gunslinger, or knock back a couple while trying your 
 luck at the one-armed bandit. SilverDollar is available for just $1.99 from 
 the Draconis website. DracoEnt.com
 
 Additionally, we are now offering a way to try out titles created with the 
 next-generation Draconis game engine with the release of the Draconis Show 
 Case. This stand-alone application provides information, audio 
 demonstrations, and a chance to try out some of the features and game play 
 of next-generation Draconis games. You can find out more at the Trials page. 
 http://dracoent.com/trials
 
 Happy gaming!
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Question Regardin the Draconis Showcaseg

2013-06-15 Thread Draconis

Just adding a little to what Charles said here…

The Show Case is a stand-alone app. When you run it, you navigate the menus to 
try out the games, listen to demonstrations, and so on. It is completely 
separate from the full versions of the games it demos.

We felt this was a much better way to offer demos that satisfies both our needs 
and the desires of some customers to try titles before purchasing. We hope most 
will agree.

We welcome feedback on the Show Case, and plan to use this method going forward.

On Jun 15, 2013, at 6:57 PM, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote:

 The showcase is totally separate from any installed games.  Have fun 
 listening.
 
 ---
 Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.
 - Original Message - From: Kelly Sapergia ksaper...@gmail.com
 To: gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 5:19 PM
 Subject: [Audyssey] Question Regardin the Draconis Showcaseg
 
 
 Hi,
 
 I just bought Silver Dollar immediately after reading about it on this list, 
 and am very impressed! I also downloaded the Showcase program for Windows to 
 see what it's like, but have a question before installing it. I know it 
 allows you to try both Silver Dollar and Change Reaction 2, both of which I 
 already have, but if I were to install the showcase, would it effect the 
 already-installed games, or are the demos installed in a separate folder? It 
 would be interesting to see how the demos compare to the full versions.
 
 Thanks, and keep up the great work!
 
 Yours Sincerely,
 Kelly John Sapergia
 Show Host and Production Director
 The Global Voice Internet Radio
 www.theglobalvoice.info
 
 Personal Website: www.ksapergia.net
 Business Website (KJS Productions): www.kjsproductions.com
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. 
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Who's afraid of Objective C?

2013-06-08 Thread Draconis

Hi Tom,

Your statement below seems like you're a bit confused. There's nothing stopping 
you from developing with C++ on Apple platforms. In fact, you can even use 
Objective-C++ which allows you to mix and match C++ and Objective-C at will, 
giving you the best of both worlds if that is advantageous for your project.

Objective-C is just Apple's flavor of a C language, really not much different 
from C# being Microsoft's flavor of a C language, or C++.net.

You can develop on the Mac with Python, java, and other languages as well, 
though I've not done that myself.

For the Draconis engine, we've developed most of it with C++ for cross-platform 
compatibility, with minimal amounts of code in Objective-C for Apple platforms 
and C#.net for Windows.

As we've seen with what has happened with VB6 games and such, the only real 
safeguard against having to rewrite your games at some point is to use 
something as ubiquitous as C++.

Saying that Apple has ignored compatibility with the rest of the world's OS's 
is ignoring that Microsoft has essentially done the same thing, and comes from 
an incomplete understanding of development on Apple platforms.

And, if you want a good experience for your users on each of the platforms you 
are going to support, you are going to have to tweak a little for each OS. 
Write once and compile for all seldom, if ever, results in an optimal 
experience for anyone. Users of different OS's have different expectations on 
each platform for how software should behave.

Your games in python or C++ would not need to be rewritten from scratch, though 
you may need to tailor portions of them for the targeted OS.

HTH.

On Jun 8, 2013, at 7:04 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Cara,
 
 I think as far as myself is concerned I'm not so much apposed to
 learning or using Objective C, but that I'd have to literally rewrite
 all of my games etc from scratch to use it. Since I have software in
 Python, some in C++, etc I don't like having to rewrite them in
 Objective C just because Apple decided to ignore compatibility with
 every single OS in the world and do their own thing. :D
 
 Cheers!
 
 On 6/7/13, Cara Quinn caraqu...@caraquinn.com wrote:
 Lol! Awesome Liam! :)
 
 To be completely honest, when I first looked at Objective C syntax I really
 didn't like it. I was used to more straight C / Java / C++ syntax so seeing
 all the brackets enclosing method calls really kind of turned me off. C++
 seemed a lot more concise to me. However, after having worked in Objective C
 for a while now, some of the more longhand ways methods are named really
 does help in reading code after you've written it and need to revisit it
 later.
 
 It's actually quite a bit more readable in some ways than C++ because of the
 extra wording in the method naming.
 
 Here's an example:
 
 In C++ I might declare a method:
 
 void offsetLatitudeAndLongitude(double lat, double lng,double offset);
 
 I would write the same method name in Objective C as:
 
 -(void) offsetLatitude:(double)lat andLongitude:(double)lng
 withOffset:(double)offset;
 
 So since it's more English-like, going back and rereading that later for me
 would be a whole lot easier. :)
 
 So there ya go, there's my two cents for now. :)
 
 Have an awesome day!
 
 Smiles,
 
 Cara :)
 ---
 View my Online Portfolio at:
 
 http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn
 
 Follow me on Twitter!
 
 https://twitter.com/ModelCara
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Who's afraid of Objective C?

2013-06-08 Thread Draconis

Michael,

Most of the time, you don't even have to do that. Objective-C++ files, with the 
extension .mm, can more or less mix and match C++ and Objective-C code at will, 
provided that any Objective-C classes stay within the global namespace.

It depends on exactly what you're doing, but since we used Objective-C++ 
extensively through the Draconis engine, I can definitely say that, in most 
cases, you don't need to go through the steps you're talking about.

It depends on exactly what you're doing and how your project is constructed.

On Jun 8, 2013, at 7:30 AM, Michael Taboada mich...@speedofsoundgaming.com 
wrote:

 Hi Thomas,
 Not quite true. If you have c++ apps that are cross platform, you could 
 pretty easily port them to objective c using what's called objective c++. 
 it's basically objective c mixed with c++. Note if you decided to go this 
 route that to make your files usable in regular objective c files you'd have 
 to make a very, very light wrapper around your c++ code, as objective c is 
 not compatible with c++ in and of itself, but with objective c++ it is.
 For example what you might do is what's commonly known as 'pimpl' or 'private 
 implementation' where anywhere in the objective c header file that you 
 reference a c++ class, you simply put a struct pointer to that class. That 
 way, as objective c is backward compatible with c, and the header files 
 doesn't have to touch the c++ class code, all you have to do in the objective 
 c++ file is to cast the struct pointer to the class type and use it as normal.
 Hth,
 -Michael.
 
 
 -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward
 Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2013 6:04 AM
 To: Gamers Discussion list
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Who's afraid of Objective C?
 
 Hi Cara,
 
 I think as far as myself is concerned I'm not so much apposed to
 learning or using Objective C, but that I'd have to literally rewrite
 all of my games etc from scratch to use it. Since I have software in
 Python, some in C++, etc I don't like having to rewrite them in
 Objective C just because Apple decided to ignore compatibility with
 every single OS in the world and do their own thing. :D
 
 Cheers!
 
 On 6/7/13, Cara Quinn caraqu...@caraquinn.com wrote:
 Lol! Awesome Liam! :)
 
 To be completely honest, when I first looked at Objective C syntax I really
 didn't like it. I was used to more straight C / Java / C++ syntax so seeing
 all the brackets enclosing method calls really kind of turned me off. C++
 seemed a lot more concise to me. However, after having worked in Objective C
 for a while now, some of the more longhand ways methods are named really
 does help in reading code after you've written it and need to revisit it
 later.
 
 It's actually quite a bit more readable in some ways than C++ because of the
 extra wording in the method naming.
 
 Here's an example:
 
 In C++ I might declare a method:
 
 void offsetLatitudeAndLongitude(double lat, double lng,double offset);
 
 I would write the same method name in Objective C as:
 
 -(void) offsetLatitude:(double)lat andLongitude:(double)lng
 withOffset:(double)offset;
 
 So since it's more English-like, going back and rereading that later for me
 would be a whole lot easier. :)
 
 So there ya go, there's my two cents for now. :)
 
 Have an awesome day!
 
 Smiles,
 
 Cara :)
 ---
 View my Online Portfolio at:
 
 http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn
 
 Follow me on Twitter!
 
 https://twitter.com/ModelCara
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Who's afraid of Objective C?

2013-06-08 Thread Draconis

Hi Liam,

Xcode is really a pretty nice IDE. It looks scary the first time you dive in, 
no doubt…but once you really learn all the ins and outs, it is comfortable to 
work in. Having used various versions of Visual Studio 6 through VS.net 2010, I 
definitely prefer Xcode, but that's largely more a matter of taste and how your 
individual workflow is.

I'm not familiar with any versions of VS newer than that, as I no longer handle 
the Windows side of development personally, so I can't compare with those. 
Generally speaking, though, I enjoy using Xcode. It has its flaws and quirks, 
just like any other piece of software, but it has been my experience that every 
IDE does.

On Jun 7, 2013, at 3:30 PM, Liam Erven liamer...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm so glad I can look at that and have it not look like greek to me.
 Objective C still frightens me, but... well... Gotta jump in some time
 right?  I think what is more frightening is Xcode itself.  But take
 some time to learn it first guys. then complain.
 
 On 6/7/13, Cara Quinn caraqu...@caraquinn.com wrote:
 Hey you guys, I say this with love, but if y'all would put the energy you're
 spending complaining about learning Objective C into actually starting to
 learn Objective C then I think you'll find that it's really not that hard!
 *warm smile*
 
 Just to give a really quick intro to the language;
 
 • It uses methods or blocks of code just like C, C++ and other C style
 languages.
 
 • An Objective C method definition might look like:
 
 -(void) doSomething {
 
 // Doing things here
 
 }
 
 the minus sign means that this method can be called on each object of the
 class where this method is defined. If there were a plus sign instead, the
 method could be called on the class itself.
 
 The void in parentheses means that the method returns or generates nothing.
 
 then we have the method's name and the two braces which enclose the actual
 code that gets executed when you call the method.
 
 • Methods in Objective C are called as in:
 
 [self doSomething];
 
 The call is surrounded in brackets. and the self in the first part of the
 call refers to the object or class where the method is declared. Lastly, we
 have the method name itself and then the semicolon which ends the line just
 like in the C languages.
 
 Hope all this makes sense and allows you to start reading some Objective C
 syntax to start to tell what is happening.
 
 Smiles,
 
 Cara :)
 ---
 View my Online Portfolio at:
 
 http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn
 
 Follow me on Twitter!
 
 https://twitter.com/ModelCara
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] programming games

2013-06-07 Thread Draconis

Hi Tom,

Yeah…that was the point I was originally trying to make. I feel bad that it 
wasn't clear enough, and partially derailed the conversation. Thanks for 
stating it a bit more succinctly.

On Jun 7, 2013, at 11:06 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi James,
 
 Exactly. As a game developer I am discovering there is a big
 difference in what the older generation of game players want verses
 what the younger generation of players want. In order to market audio
 games we have to really figure out what age group we are targeting and
 then get the word out to that group of players as to what is out there
 for their age group.
 
 For example, marketing something like Shades of Doom or Time of
 Conflict on a list of senior citizens wouldn't make any sense, but
 advertising the All In Play games, Jim Kitchen's games, or the RS
 Games client, would as that is something many senior citizens might
 like.
 
 
 On 6/7/13, James Bartlett jab8...@gmail.com wrote:
 hI there
 
Yes I also agry with that. my grandmother is 70 plus yearsold and she
 likes games like cards and word games. My mom likes puzzll games. where for
 
 my wife and I like games like alter and more action pack games. So I think
 that you just have to find the right thing to get someone started on using
 computers. if they haven't alraty.
 
 bfn
 James
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] programming games

2013-06-06 Thread Draconis

I'd like to add to what Tom has said about the market for cross-platform games.

Draconis entered the Mac market for audio games six months ago, but had been 
analyzing it for quite some time prior to that, too.

Regardless of the industry, the sheer number of users who use a platform is 
only one small piece of the puzzle when considering which platforms to develop 
for. Not all users are created equal. For a real world example, look at the iOS 
versus Android markets for apps right now. The vast, vast, vast majority of 
developers develop for iOS first, and often not for Android at all, even though 
it appears, on the surface, that Android has a larger share of the smart phone 
market. The difference is, though, that developers don't make much money on 
Android. Android users tend to be unwilling to pay for apps, are only using 
their phone as a phone and not as a true mobile computing device, or are 
running a version of the OS so out of date that it is impractical to support. 
Couple reasons like these with the difficulties of supporting the hugely 
fragmented Android platform, and it is no wonder that developers target iOS, 
where they can actually make some money.

Where this sort of analysis is important for cross-platform audio games is in 
the types of people your games are going to appeal to. While there are 
certainly more visually impaired users of Windows, that number is shrinking. 
Many of the Windows users are running the OS side-by-side with OS X on a Mac 
machine. The demographic of visually impaired Mac users skews younger, which, 
generally speaking, is the group more likely to purchase and enjoy games.

While the Linux community has certainly grown over the years, we don't think it 
is large enough, on its own, to support audio gaming. Someone like Tom has a 
vested interest in developing for it, and I think you need that drive to 
support it for now. It is not financially viable, and I doubt that is going to 
change in the foreseeable future.

So far, Mac sales of our first two titles for that platform have far and away 
exceeded sales for any titles on Windows over the last decade, likely for the 
reasons above, as well as our ability to price the games more affordibly now 
that we're offering them on more platforms.

It is far more complex than simply looking at numbers and trying to use the 
size of the user base as a reference point. A huge percentage of visually 
impaired Windows users are, for example, are elderly persons who have recently 
lost their vision and primarily use their computers for only the most basic of 
tasks. They are not going to be a segment of the market who are likely to 
purchase Shades of Doom or play Swamp. *grin*


On Jun 5, 2013, at 1:27 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Josh,
 
 Sure there is a market. How big it is I can't say, but there is enough
 of a market there to consider cross-platform games. There are several
 people who now have Mac OS X, and the last time I checked the Orca
 list has a couple hundred blind members. I don't know for sure how
 many blind Linux users there are for sure because the community is
 spread out over the Vinux list, Ubuntu accessibility list, Speakup
 List, the Orca List, etc and there are bound to be people on more than
 one fudging the results of just looking at the number of members.
 However, there is a market there, and besides there is more to it than
 just dollars and cents. Some people like me use the OS and want some
 games to play so I of all people have a vested interest in making
 Linux games even if I didn't sell one game.
 
 Cheers!
 


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] programming games

2013-06-06 Thread Draconis

Hi Eleanor,

I actually agree with you, which is why I was using Swamp and Shades of Doom 
specifically as examples. My point was that the demographics for various types 
of games are going to vary, and the sheer numbers of users on any given 
platform is not a good way to determine market size for a game.

I think perhaps I should have been a bit more explicit. I know plenty of older 
folks who are quite capable with technology as well. Both groups exist. Saying 
that all computer users of any age are equally capable would also be incorrect.

Sorry for any offense. None was intended. :)

For what it is worth…I actually enjoy all sorts of games, but shoot 'em ups are 
not typically my cup of tea either…so I wasn't using those titles because they 
were ones I liked. Neither appeal to me much, though they were well designed 
products.

On Jun 6, 2013, at 4:33 PM, Eleanor Robinson elea...@7128.com wrote:

 Draconis said:
 
 It is far more complex than simply looking at numbers and trying to use the 
 size of the user base as a reference point. A huge percentage of visually 
 impaired Windows users are, for example, are elderly persons who have 
 recently lost their vision and primarily use their computers for only the 
 most basic of tasks. They are not going to be a segment of the market who are 
 likely to purchase Shades of Doom or play Swamp.*grin*
 
 I just want to say that elderly people are big gamers - just not of the same 
 type of games that you want.  If the game is a card game, word game, puzzle 
 game or non-violent story game, they are interested and will play if they 
 find out how to access them.  The main problem is getting the information out 
 to them that there are accessible games they will enjoy.
 
 That is one of the challenges we at 7-128 Software have tried to address over 
 the past several years.  Here is a group of people with time on their hands 
 and usually a little disposable income who don't know that they can play 
 games using audio rather than visual clues.
 
 The idea that older people are not computer literate needs to die a quick 
 death.  Almost everyone who is reaching retirement age at this time have used 
 computers extensively in their employment for at least the last 15 years.  
 They are almost all using Email, many are on Facebook and Twitter.  Some have 
 played games on game portals such as Pogo.  They have recently had vision 
 problems and don't know how to access the computer as they used to because of 
 that, not because they aren't computer literate.
 
 OOPS - you pushed a button of mine - sorry.  Didn't want to go off on a rant!!
 
 Eleanor Robinson
 7-128 Software
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Update to Change Reaction 2 for Windows

2013-06-03 Thread Draconis


Yes, this is something we are considering developing for Windows in the future. 
Since our apps are available for Mac in the Mac App Store, this is already 
available to Mac users automatically.

On Jun 1, 2013, at 4:31 PM, Desiree Oudinot turtlepowe...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,
 Do you have any plans to add a feature to any of your games that would
 tell us when the game is launched that an update is available? Even if
 you had to go to the website itself to download and install it, it
 seems that having a notification might be nice. This is just a
 suggestion, though.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

[Audyssey] Update to Change Reaction 2 for Windows

2013-06-01 Thread Draconis

Greetings gamers,

We have just released a minor update to Change Reaction 2 for Windows, which is 
recommended for all users.

2.1.1.8 solves an issue that could occur, usually only if a screen reader was 
in sleep mode, when the app exited. Additionally, there are a handful of 
other minor fixes and enhancements in this version.

You can download the update from the ChangeReaction 2 product page at:

http://dracoent.com/Windows/ChangeReaction

More to come very soon.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Update to Change Reaction 2 for Windows

2013-06-01 Thread Draconis

Hi Chris,

The solution to this is in our knowledge base here:

http://help.dracoent.com/knowledgebase.php?article=13

On Jun 1, 2013, at 1:02 PM, Chris H christopher...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thank you for the update.
 Just a suggestion, but for those still running older versions of Windows, 
 could you possibly make the last 1.x version available?
 Thanks again.
 
 
 Chris
 
 On 01/06/2013 16:40, Draconis wrote:
 Greetings gamers,
 
 We have just released a minor update to Change Reaction 2 for Windows, which 
 is recommended for all users.
 
 2.1.1.8 solves an issue that could occur, usually only if a screen reader 
 was in sleep mode, when the app exited. Additionally, there are a handful 
 of other minor fixes and enhancements in this version.
 
 You can download the update from the ChangeReaction 2 product page at:
 
 http://dracoent.com/Windows/ChangeReaction
 
 More to come very soon.
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Message for Draconis.

2013-05-05 Thread Draconis

Hi Ryan,

As of now, the only game we have updated to the new game engine is 
ChangeReaction. That leaves Alien Outback, DynaMan, and 9 pinball tables 
available with scoreboard support. We're not expecting users to go back to the 
old CR to post scores. When we suggest that users can show us they want this 
support, we're talking about the eleven other boards that are currently up and 
running.

Scoreboard usage has never been all that high in comparison to the number of 
games sold, so it is hard to justify putting the time and resources into doing 
this for such a small number of users. if we can see that more than a handful 
of folks want this feature, it would bump it up on the priority list. I think 
this is perfectly reasonable.

We're certainly not suggesting you play the old CR just to post scores.

Hope this clears things up for you.

On May 4, 2013, at 9:27 PM, Ryan Conroy staindadd...@juno.com wrote:

 Good point, but I don't think you understand what I mean. You can not post 
 your scores in chess to an online score board. I'm talking about the score 
 boards here, not the value of a game. Of course the old titles are still 
 great, they
 're classics. My point is, why should we go back to the older games, just to 
 post scores. Who knows if Draconis is planning to release Alien Outback again 
 as an upgrade. If he did though, I'm sure no one would use the score boards 
 to post their scores anymore, they're want to play the new version, and give 
 the old one a break. There's no compitition if no one's posting scores, and 
 if an upgrade comes out they're going to want to compete in it.
 
 -- Original Message --
 From: Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Message for Draconis.
 Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 20:18:18 -0500
 
 Something to think about:  Does the age of a game decrease from its value? 
 Personally, I don't care how old a game is if it is a good game.  Chess has 
 withstood the test of time.  Why?  Because it is a good strategy game. 
 Alien Outback is an excellent game.  If you base your game selections on the 
 age of the games, you're sure shorting yourself of a lot of fun!
 
 ---
 Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.
 - Original Message - 
 From: Ryan Conroy staindadd...@juno.com
 To: gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 7:48 PM
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Message for Draconis.
 
 
 Hey Sarah,
 
 I completely agree. I'm sure lots of people would post their scores from 
 the new ChangeReaction, seeing on how it's new. If you want to compete on 
 ChangeReaction though, you need to go back to the old one.
 As you said, most of their older titles support the score server like 
 alien Outback, PBX all tables, Dynoman which is one of my favorites, but 
 no one wants to play the old stuff. They're still fun in all, but how are 
 we going to see how the boards are really used if we're just trying it 
 games that are years old? I for one, can't wait to see what else Draconis 
 comes out with, but we should update the boards to present, and not test 
 how offen theire used with games from the past.
 -- Original Message --
 From: Sarah Haake ti...@gmx.net
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Message for Draconis.
 Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 02:37:51 +0200
 
 Hi,
 
 yeah, I also would like to be able to post scores with the new version. 
 Josh
 stated that he wanted to see how the scoreboards are used before adding it
 to new games, but I think this approach is a bit tricky. Not all older
 titles have score posting to start with. And now that the new game is out,
 people want to play the new game which can't send scores, so naturally
 scoreboards are not used. I hope you can see what I mean here. I actually
 have the same problem. I love the new change reaction and play it often, 
 but
 to be able to send scores and show that I will use the boards I have to 
 play
 older titles which I don't want to play as much right now. Difficult
 situation I think.
 
 Best regards
 Sarah
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the 
 list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 E
 
 Transformation of America?
 Stocks soar--but some wealthy citizens are preparing for huge changes
 http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5185ac84effce2c845856st02vuc
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org

Re: [Audyssey] Message for Draconis.

2013-05-05 Thread Draconis

Ryan,

No offense was taken or meant. Your feedback is very welcome, and it will be 
factored into the decision long term.

We were only trying to explain why we need to make sure that our efforts will 
be of value to as many customers as possible. :)

On May 5, 2013, at 3:06 PM, Ryan Conroy staindadd...@juno.com wrote:

 Hi,
 
 I never really post to this list. I'm more of a person who sits back, and 
 watches things develop. I respect all developers, and I appreciate what they 
 do. I have nearly every accessible game created, and I love them.
 I just posted to the list because I had a thought. I was trying to make a 
 simple point, but from now on I'll keep my mouth shut, and go back to not 
 posting anything like  I usually do.
 
 Thanks for understanding.
 Ryan
 
 -- Original Message --
 From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Message for Draconis.
 Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 13:19:38 -0400
 
 Hi Cara,
 
 In deed. We developers waste a lot of time on unnecessary things like
 eating, sleeping, listening to audio books, doing house work, etc. We
 humans are imperfect creatures. Maybe we should be assimilated by the
 Borg and then we can program our games through more efficient means
 like collective thought. Oh, wait, I forgot. Games are irrelevant.
 
 Smiles.
 
 
 On 5/5/13, Cara Quinn caraqu...@caraquinn.com wrote:
 But Josh, we have all this extra time sleeping and eating and showering and
 working and such that we could be using to develop score boards for no other
 reason than just because!… lol! -Just sayin' what the community is already
 thinking! lol!
 
 Smiles,
 
 Cara :)
 ---
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 
 New BlackBerry#174 Z10
 Discover the BlackBerry Z10, built to keep you moving. Get it today.
 http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5186ade6adf912de579cest04vuc
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Why SAPI Output is Superior

Hi Tom,

Full agreement here. We have started using SAPI in our new game engine as well, 
as has been evident in ChangeReaction 2 and SilverDollar. We use a very simple 
formula for deciding what should or should not be presented with TTS. That is, 
if this was a video game and the information being presented would be text on 
the screen, that information should be presented with TTS. Otherwise, human 
voices should be used.

In the main menus for both CR and SD, we do have a human voice for the main 
options, because we are thinking of these options more as icons.

Likewise, in CR, the coins in a video game would be graphically represented, 
hence they are named by a human voice during game play.

We resisted using TTS for a long time. In fact, we weren't using it at all in 
early betas of CR2. In the end, the dubious benefits are far outweighed by the 
drawbacks of using human voices for every bit of textual output.

On May 4, 2013, at 11:07 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi everyone,
 
 This morning I had some time on my hands so I began really working on
 Mysteries of the Ancients, the new version, and decided to add SAPI 5
 support to help expedite the development process.  What I discovered
 when I compiled and ran this very early prototype is that the SAPI
 support works far better than any release before, and I realized to my
 amazement it really is the best solution for speaking menus, status
 messages, etc for a number of reasons.
 
 1. It takes less development time to call a single function to pass a
 string of text to a SAPI speak function than it does to record, edit,
 load, and play a speech clip. Basically, if you got a game idea in
 mind you can really speed up the process just by using the SAPI voices
 installed on the machine.
 
 2. It saves drive space, takes up less CPU power, and less memory.  In
 the last beta of Mysteries of the Ancients,beta 22, the Speech
 directory was 36 MB. Now, of course, using SAPI it will take up less
 drive space as well as be a smaller download.  I also noticed looking
 at the over all system performance that it uses less memory so that's
 another reason to use SAPI.
 
 3. Its customizable. This probably goes without saying, but using SAPI
 voices you can change the voice, pitch, rate, and volume of the
 default voice in the Control Panel meaning if you don't like the
 default voice you can always switch to a different one or buy a better
 one.
 
 This was always a bit of a problem in prior test releases. The voice
 was too fast, too slow, it had an accent, or whatever and I was going
 crazy trying to find a voice that everyone liked. So using SAPI you,
 the end user, can set it up anyway you like in the Windows Control
 Panel.
 
 4. Its very inexpensive. If you hire voice actors to read the menus,
 status messages, items, etc that can cost lots of money not to mention
 require time to edit and use. Even if a developer uses Acapela Heather
 or Nuance Tom legally the developer is suppose to pay royalties for
 the use of that voice in a commercial product. This way the developer
 isn't using the voices directly and the customer fits the bill for any
 high quality voices like Ivona, Nuance TTS, Cepstral, etc.
 
 5. Its very dynamic and flexible. With prerecorded speech there is
 always the problem of speaking dynamic content like a player's name or
 speaking a message with a number of variables involved. Here you just
 create a message string using the dynamic content, give it to sAPI,
 and forget about it.
 
 For example, in my wrestling game there are a number of messages of
 play by play action like this. John Cena quickly moves forward, picks
 up the Rock, and slams him to the mat. In a case like this the speech
 output has to be flexible enough to use the same message from match to
 match only substituting the name of the performers in the match. You
 can't really do that easily with prerecorded speech clips, but you can
 easily do it with SAPI just by using a couple of string variables in
 place of the performers name. Therefore it doesn't matter who is in
 the match it will always speak the information no matter what, and the
 developer doesn't have to spend a month writing a bunch of if
 statements to load this or that speech clip on demand. :D
 
 So I think after seeing the results in person I think I am going to be
 using SAPI output from now on in my Windows games. I only regret I
 didn't do this earlier. I could have saved myself a lot of wasted time
 and energy trying to make prerecorded speech clips.
 
 Cheers!
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the

Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations

Hi Shaun,

You are incorrect on a couple points.

First, James sold ESP Softworks to Adora because of the treatment he was 
getting from the community. He decided he wanted out, because it had escalated 
to such a degree. So your assertion that the trouble started with Alchemy is 
incorrect.

He started Alchemy, thinking that perhaps he would give the community a second 
chance, and try to cope better with them. This did not happen, obviously.

James was relatively open about the development of PB2, and the delays it was 
experiencing as I recall. So, whether he was communicative or not, it didn't 
make any difference in terms of the treatment he received.

As I said previously, I don't agree with everything James did, but I do think 
the community has not taken responsibility for driving out one of its best 
founding developers.

On May 4, 2013, at 5:35 AM, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote:

 there is no disputing that tom.
 The espsoftworks era was good.
 he cranked everything out.
 when he went to alchemy was the time things went south.
 I am sure if he stayed with esp he would continue as is but maybe he was 
 bored with that.
 
 At 08:41 PM 5/4/2013, you wrote:
 Hi Clement,
 
 Exactly. The mouse demo was suppose to give gamers an idea of how Max
 Shrapnel was to be controlled, and to give them a little practice
 using the mouse as Max Shrapnel was to be largely played using the
 mouse much like Swamp is today.  Of course, I remember people wined
 and complained about lack of keyboard support back then as they did
 with Che over Rail Racer and Jeremy over Swamp until a majority found
 out they actually  liked it. Lol.
 
 Anyway, I think a lot of people forget what a great innovator James
 North really was. He created Alien Outback before Justin and Dan came
 out with Troopanum. He came out with Dynaman before Phil came out with
 Pac-Man Talks for Windows. He created Monkey Business and I think it
 was the very first attempt at an audio FPS game. He wrote Pinball
 Classic and it still remains only one of two pinball games for the
 blind. He came out with his rendition of Montezuma's Revenge in 2004
 which is the very first audio 2d side-scroller with a vertical and
 horizontal axis of movement. Shall I continue?
 
 The point is James North created a lot of firsts, and this community
 would be a lot worse off without his contributions. Oh, sure Troopanum
 would have come along, and I'm sure Phil would have released Pac-Man
 Talks for Windows as he did. Someone would have come up with a 2d
 side-scroller eventually, but all of these things were done in the
 first few years of the audio game industry and James North was the one
 cranking out new games and new ideas that other devs hadn't thought
 about yet.
 
 Cheers!
 
 
 On 5/4/13, Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi Tom.
  The way I understood it.. that mouse demo was going to be one of the
  features of Max Shrapnel in terms of how it was controlled. I'm not sure 
  how
 
  into that style of multiplayer pvp shooter you are similar to things like
  Counterstrike or Unreal Tournament, but it would be great to see something
  like that some time down the road. Not saying right now, of course, just a
  suggestion for a possible project. Max Shrapnel, when I read the features
  list James put up on Alchemy, was my dream game... because that was at the
  peak of the hype at the time which was Counterstrike 1.6, probably one of
  the most popular multiplayer shooters out there.
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Why SAPI Output is Superior

Hi Tom,

Regarding the cross-platform challenge…

It isn't really that big of a deal. We developed a TTS wrapper in the game 
engine. The Windows and Mac compilations simply hook into the OS's native TTS 
system, which is NSSpeechSynthesizer on Mac and SAPI on Windows. I think that 
part of the engine was developed in about a day. Very straightforward, with the 
main work the pre-planning of the wrapper class.

The main drawback we have found to TTS, is that we're finding that many 
third-party voices have bugs or cases where they do not adhere to the native 
system they are hooking into. Fortunately, the folks over at Assistiveware were 
fantastic about working with us to fix their bugs, which they have now done. 
Not sure how the Windows side will play out, but we know that a few TTS voices 
have issues playing nice with the SAPI system.

On May 4, 2013, at 12:30 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Philip,
 
 When it comes to over all atmosphere you are right. A human voice is
 always superior, but I haven't been doing that with any of my games.
 With my original draft of STFC I used Neosspeach Kate, then Realspeak
 Karen, and in many of the betas of MOTA I was using Acapela Heather.
 Since all of these games were essentially using prerecorded clips of
 SAPI voices anyway I was essentially doing a lot of unnecessary work
 recording,editing, and then using the wav files of synth voices when I
 could have used them directly.
 
 Now, my voice isn't very good, and do to some physical impairments it
 is impossible for me to speak clearly and I would never use it for a
 professional game. Unfortunately, that means I would have to hire out
 to someone else to do the voice clips and I don't really want to spend
 a great deal of money on a game like Mysteries of the Ancients just to
 get realistic human speech. Perhaps if the game sells well I could
 consider reinvesting some of that money in voice acting etc, but for a
 preliminary release SAPI is definitely the best way to go.
 
 As far as wrapper classes that's pretty much what I was doing from
 betas 1 to 22. I had a function called SpeakNumber() that would take a
 number and do all the loading and processing of number files which
 works pretty well. However, that required some extra work developing
 those wrapper classes in order to get the same functionality I have
 with SAPI right away.
 
 There is one other issue you didn't mention and that is cross-platform
 support. There really aren't any good cross-platform TTS solutions.
 ESpeak, Festival, etc are all pretty bad and using prerecorded speech
 clips is a great way to support Windows, Linux, Mac, and iOS, etc all
 with the same speech and from that perspective it is easier to deal
 with than a specific API like SAPI.
 
 Cheers!
 
 
 On 5/4/13, Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com wrote:
 Hi Thomas,
 
 I just wanted to respond with a few spontaneous thoughts based on my own
 experiences with sapi versus prerecorded audio.
 
 Mostly I agree with your points. But for my own part I find that using
 synthetic speech, whether it be prerecorded or generated on the fly by a
 sapi controlled engine, greatly detracts from the atmosphere. Imagine if you
 
 will, that you are in a shadowy temple with a faint sound of wind, distant
 screams from the depths of a dungeon far below, haunting music with
 reverberating strings, and an equally dramatic narrative performed by
 Microsoft Mike. A bit of a contrast.
 
 To take a less extreme example, in my upcoming title the atmosphere is
 generally quite dramatic and with a dark undertone most of the time.
 Therefore, when I recorded my speech files I spoke in a very low voice even
 
 for such trivial things as numbers and status messages. I knew in what
 context my voice was going to be played, and was able to adapt it to really
 
 blend in with the rest of the scene that I was trying to create. A speech
 engine could never achieve that. So I think that in terms of atmosphere and
 
 dramatic effect, prerecorded speech is far superior than a tts engine. There
 
 are, of course, numerous cases where the advantages of tts output greatly
 outweigh the pros of prerecorded material, such as when there is absolutely
 
 no way for you to know what content that may need to be spoken. But if, as
 in the case of Mota, you are using prerecorded speech files that just
 contain tts generated content anyway then these have absolutely no advantage
 
 so I would not disagree with your decision to use sapi if you aren't
 interested in getting a voice talent to record your files. In short, I feel
 
 that prerecorded voice files are only advantageous if you actually have a
 real voice for the game.
 
 As for ease of coding - that has never really bothered me. It is trivial to
 
 design wrapper classes that can take a number, or a filename etc using
 overloaded methods, and rendering that with the available speech files
 asynchronously in the same thread so that one doesn't

Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations

Hi Charles,

Yes. I developed the other 9 tables, and the bulk of the work involved in the 
PBX engine.

On May 4, 2013, at 1:17 PM, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote:

 If memory serves me correctly, James North came up with ESP Pinball Classic. 
 Adora Entertainment, Josh who I can't remember the last name of at the 
 moment, created the other 9 tables.
 
 ---
 Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.
 - Original Message - From: hayden presley hdpres...@hotmail.com
 To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 10:19 AM
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
 
 
 You know, I do find it interesting that his two pinball games remain to this
 day the only two we have. I am a little surprised that nobody has ever
 attempted to create one since.
 
 Best Regards,
 Hayden
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward
 Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 3:42 AM
 To: Gamers Discussion list
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
 
 Hi Clement,
 
 Exactly. The mouse demo was suppose to give gamers an idea of how Max
 Shrapnel was to be controlled, and to give them a little practice using the
 mouse as Max Shrapnel was to be largely played using the mouse much like
 Swamp is today.  Of course, I remember people wined and complained about
 lack of keyboard support back then as they did with Che over Rail Racer and
 Jeremy over Swamp until a majority found out they actually  liked it. Lol.
 
 Anyway, I think a lot of people forget what a great innovator James North
 really was. He created Alien Outback before Justin and Dan came out with
 Troopanum. He came out with Dynaman before Phil came out with Pac-Man Talks
 for Windows. He created Monkey Business and I think it was the very first
 attempt at an audio FPS game. He wrote Pinball Classic and it still remains
 only one of two pinball games for the blind. He came out with his rendition
 of Montezuma's Revenge in 2004 which is the very first audio 2d
 side-scroller with a vertical and horizontal axis of movement. Shall I
 continue?
 
 The point is James North created a lot of firsts, and this community would
 be a lot worse off without his contributions. Oh, sure Troopanum would have
 come along, and I'm sure Phil would have released Pac-Man Talks for Windows
 as he did. Someone would have come up with a 2d side-scroller eventually,
 but all of these things were done in the first few years of the audio game
 industry and James North was the one cranking out new games and new ideas
 that other devs hadn't thought about yet.
 
 Cheers!
 
 
 On 5/4/13, Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Tom.
 The way I understood it.. that mouse demo was going to be one of the
 features of Max Shrapnel in terms of how it was controlled. I'm not
 sure how
 
 into that style of multiplayer pvp shooter you are similar to things
 like Counterstrike or Unreal Tournament, but it would be great to see
 something like that some time down the road. Not saying right now, of
 course, just a suggestion for a possible project. Max Shrapnel, when I
 read the features list James put up on Alchemy, was my dream game...
 because that was at the peak of the hype at the time which was
 Counterstrike 1.6, probably one of the most popular multiplayer shooters
 out there.
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list,
 send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. 
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to

Re: [Audyssey] Message for Draconis.

Hello Ryan, Sarah, Charles, and all,

We are seriously considering building new scoreboards to work with the new game 
engine. This is not a trivial undertaking, and certainly not one that we wish 
to take unless the boards are going to be used by enough gamers.

Supporting the boards on multiple platforms, and with the features we wish to, 
will take some time, but is not entirely out of the question. As we stated 
previously, though, seeing use from gamers of the boards we have now would help 
support the notion of doing so.

While, personally, I'd love to just have support for the boards in all new 
titles, we need to make sure it is worth the time and effort put into 
implementing it.

Hope this makes sense.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations

2013-05-03 Thread Draconis

Hi Tom, Shaun, and all,

Once again, after telling myself I should quit dealing with this list 
day-to-day, I find myself responding to a message. I will never learn, 
apparently. LOL

Shaun: It is messages like yours that makes devs like myself not want to 
support the blind gaming community…at least not this segment of it.

Adding to what Tom has said…

I know only a little more of the story with James than does Tom, and I don't 
really feel comfortable airing it out here. I didn't agree with how James 
handled some things, but in the end, it is the community, more than anything 
else, that is at fault for his exit from the space. 

It was the situation with James, in fact, that led Draconis to adopt the policy 
that we do not announce products in advance, do not take preorders, that we do 
not share publicly what we're working on, and that, except for times of 
releases, we pretty much withdraw from the community entirely. If we didn't, it 
would be tough to have any desire to keep going. I honestly don't know how Tom 
does it, and you should all be incredibly appreciative that he is as open as he 
is. Frankly, I think he'd be better off not doing it, but it is his hair to 
lose. *grin*

A lot of devs from the early days have withdrawn. How long has it been since 
BSC was on this list? GMA? I don't post except when we have a release.

You would think this community would have learnt from the mistakes of the past. 
It never does.

We got a lot of angry messages when we released ChangeReaction and SilverDollar 
for Mac before Windows. Where are all those folks now? I don't see many of them 
supporting this Windows release. I think people like to have something to get 
riled up over. They like drama. There's been far too much drama in this 
community.

The next time you want to send a nasty post about James North's history, or 
Tom's seemingly changing his mind, or how Draconis doesn't post updates as 
often s you want…think twice before hitting send. Ask yourself if that message 
is going to help move the industry and the community forward, or do anything 
positive at all. If not, please close the window and pour yourself a 
drink…assuming you're over the legal age to partake in your jurisdiction.

Lord knows, some of you have driven me to it, from time to time.

On May 3, 2013, at 12:47 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Shaun and all,
 
 I'd prefer not to rehash all this crap again, but since the topic came
 up here is what happened as far as I know.
 
 1. James North had started up Alchemy Game Studios and got Raceway
 back from Josh intending to complete that game.He also started two
 other projects, Montezuma's Revenge and Max Shrapnel, and took
 preorders for all of them.
 
 2. He developed a very early beta of Raceway, but for some reason
 decided after developing the beta to start over from scratch in VB
 .NET. He also wrote the demo of Montezuma's Revenge that was released
 to the list, but it was buggy and only four levels was ever completed.
 So regardless of what people think James North was getting something
 done.
 
 3. Sometime after he began all these projects he became sick, I don't
 know from what, and he stopped developing for a couple of months. He
 also had a death in the family and was rightfully upset and needed
 time to grieve.
 
 4. Not surprisingly while all this was going on being sick, dealing
 with a death in the family, this community hounded him, flamed him,
 and it upset him. Since James didn't make it known the reasons why he
 had slowed on production, why release dates were not met, I think most
 people assumed he was just screwing them which he wasn't, but short of
 a full confession of his personal life I don't think it would have
 phased them one bit.
 
 5. Finally, he had enough of it all. He turned Montezuma's Revenge,
 Raceway, and the mouse demo over to me, and quit. He rightfully had
 enough of this communities bitching, moaning, and groaning when he was
 having personal problems which this community knew nothing about.
 
 Now, that the true story is told can we move on? I know people are
 upset, they are angry, they have made up their minds to hate the man,
 but he is only human. He has good days and bad days like everyone
 else, and while I don't agree with the way he handled the situation I
 know from firsthand experience that sometimes life, real life, throws
 us a few lemons and it is bad enough getting through life's problems
 without several hateful, spiteful, vindictive people emailing you day
 in and day out wanting to know when this or that game will be done or
 they are going to sue you etc.
 
 Cheers!
 
 On 5/3/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote:
 well it would be actually interesting to find out what happened and
 to find out the full story  on what actually happened in the first place.
 We may go on on what we think happened but how did it all start.
 We know a few facts.
 1.  he did not release in a while.
 The industry

Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations

2013-05-02 Thread Draconis

Hi Tom,

I say go for it, and make a Mac version as well. LOL.

Sadly, James North cut me, and most everyone else, out of his life at the time 
he turned over Monty to you. I considered him a friend, and hope he has managed 
to get his life together.

I was actually the one who came up with the Arizona Smith name, as a play on 
Indiana Jones. I was always disappointed that you hadn't decided to keep using 
it. I, for one, would love to see the character resurrected. LOL

On May 2, 2013, at 10:39 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello everyone,
 
 As many of you know back in 2008 when I was literally almost ready to
 release Montezuma's Revenge AKA Montezuma's Return I got a cease  and
 desist letter from someone purported to represent Utopia who now owns
 the rights to both of those games. At the time I was extremely
 concerned about a lawsuit so immediately complied with the cease and
 desist order, and quit production of the game. However, for many
 reasons that decision has never set well with me, and I have felt like
 I should do something to make that situation right.
 
 For one thing If I personally hadn't taken money for the game I would
 have felt no obligation to the blind gaming community, and could have
 wrote it off as a bad deal with James North. However, as it was I had
 just taken some preorders over the months of December and January and
 spent some of that money on a new laptop and a few other items so
 wasn't in a position to offer refunds. The best I could do was offer
 the community a new game instead.
 
 The other reason was I was also quite disappointed myself. I had grown
 up in the 80's and had played the original Montezuma's Revenge on my
 Atari 2600 and was a fan of the game and obviously my own remake of
 it. So was just as disappointed as anyone else not to see it finished
 and released.
 
 As it so happens this recent situation with Blindsoftware.com has made
 me look back on my own actions, and I realize I completely handled
 that situation all wrong. Instead of trying to negotiate with Utopia
 or to simply make changes in the game to comply with copyright law I
 simply took the game off my site, stopped development, and deleted the
 source. While that decision was understandable I think there is a much
 better way to handle it, and here is what I propose.
 
 To begin with I think a lot of you know I was never completely happy
 with Mysteries of the Ancients. The primary reason had to do with the
 fact I was in visioning making it a game like Tomb Raider using an FPS
 type format, 3d levels, 3d audio, and so on. Unfortunately, when
 polled many of the customers who purchased Montezuma's Revenge still
 wanted a 2d side-scroller, and so I attempted to comply with their
 wishes by keeping some of the same elements in the game such as
 vanishing platforms, gems, gold coins, ancient scrolls, whatever. The
 game was alright, but I was never happy with it because I was trying
 to do two very different things at the same time. That is to say write
 a game like Tomb Raider, but make it like Montezuma's Revenge too. As
 a result I personally found it very dissatisfying both as a developer
 and a gamer.
 
 However, now that I have had some time to calm down, relax, and look
 at this situation more clearly I think the solution to the problem is
 very obvious. What I would like to do is recreate Montezuma's Revenge,
 at least a game very like it, and call it Mysteries of the Ancients.
 It would have some of the same basic game elements like fighting or
 fleeing skulls, spiders, and snakes, jumping onto vanishing platforms,
 swinging from ropes, etc. Perhaps instead of blue, red, green, and
 white keys I can use something slightly different like gold, silver,
 and bronze colored keys. Rather than using Panama Joe I could use
 Arizona Smith as James North was going to do. Bottom line, I think I
 could create something a lot like the game you purchased, perhaps a
 little different, but essentially the same type of game. This would
 not only resolve my debt to those customers who preordered it from
 Alchemy and USA Games, but it would also free up Tomb Hunter to be
 rewritten exactly the way I want to. I think it is a win/win
 situation.
 
 Now, I know some of you are probably going to say that this will cause
 unnecessary delays, or that I should do whatever I want. Some of you
 are just sick and tired of me changing my mind etc. You are right, and
 I agree with you for the most part. Although, I think it needs to be
 pointed out that the situation is a lot different now than it was back
 in 2008.
 
 For one thing since 2009 I have been actively developing a game engine
 in C++ called Evolution. At this point the engine is both very far
 along in development and as been well tested. That means should I
 start on the new Mysteries of the Ancients today it shouldn't take me
 too long to have a working beta of the game. Probably by the end of
 summer if I work on it every day.

Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations

2013-05-02 Thread Draconis


I can empathize. Unfortunately, with this community, you're damned if you do, 
and damned if you don't. While Draconis worked on our new game engine, I kept 
pretty quiet about what we were doing. So everyone thought we were dead. A 
decision I still get flack for from time to time. But if you do all or much of 
your development publicly, as you have, people get frustrated with the 
unpredictable nature of the development process. It's very much getting caught 
between a rock and a hard place.

For me, personally, keeping quiet about future plans is the only way I can stay 
sane and focussed on what I need to do, and not get distracted by the obnoxious 
minority.

On May 2, 2013, at 11:20 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Raul,
 
 Lol. I knew someone was going to say that, and I understand your
 feelings as well. I know it has been irritating for some folks for me
 to stop and start over etc but a lot of the reason for that was
 because of testing, experimentation, and fooling around with the
 engine rather than a serious attempt to sit down and write the game.
 Whatever I do now is is an attempt to write and complete the game
 itself not working on the engine. :D
 
 On 5/2/13, Raul A. Gallegos r...@raulgallegos.com wrote:
 Hi, quite honestly at this point I just want a game from you. I
 personally don't care which one it is as long as I get it since I paid
 you in 2008 or 2009, I forget which. I'd be fine with either type since
 no matter which way it goes, it will be of some kind of adventure. The
 only thing I ask is that you stop stopping and starting over. Just get
 the game out, smile.
 
 --
 Raul A. Gallegos
 I must say I'm glad I know sign language, It's pretty handy. - Sheldon
 Cooper
 Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

[Audyssey] Fantastic article on game piracy, everyone should read

Hello all,

Ironically, this article just came up in my RSS feeds, and I highly recommend 
reading it. Sheer brilliance.

http://www.greenheartgames.com/2013/04/29/what-happens-when-pirates-play-a-game-development-simulator-and-then-go-bankrupt-because-of-piracy/


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Newly released, reacting change!


Sounds more vindictive to me, under the guise of trying to be funny. Certainly 
is creative, although I can think of more productive ways to direct creativity.

For the record, Dark, our new registration system is almost entirely 
transparent to end users. The only additional requirement is an Internet 
connection. Not that facts seem to trouble you all that much in general.

Ian…thanks for the support.

On May 1, 2013, at 8:56 PM, Ian Reed supp...@blindaudiogames.com wrote:

 Hi Dark,
 
 Is this funny or vindictive?
 
 If it was meant as light hearted then I will admit it is very creative.
 
 Otherwise I'd like to point out that most of the content seems in response to 
 a thread that you started by challenging small time indie developers to find 
 a way to keep their games supported on versions of operating systems that 
 Microsoft, a company with at least 1000 developers, has decided to stop 
 supporting.
 
 We're just normal people working hard to make games.  Nobody is getting rich 
 here.
 
 Please try to keep the dialog civil.
 
 Ian Reed
 
 
 On 5/1/2013 6:23 PM, dark wrote:
 Hello gamers.
 
 Welcome to this new audio action puzzle game, the latest release from 
 dropdead entertainment, the same company who brought you such classic audio 
 games as aliens in my backside, mucky business and rusty penny.
 
 The object of the game is simple, change as many gamers minds as possible as 
 to what operating system they will use. To do this, various gamers are 
 stacked in 9 piles of 13 each (don't ask how we get them to stay in a stack, 
  it involves nails). Each will say the system they prefer as you arrow 
 over them, systems can be windows, lynux, mac, pocket calculator or abacus, 
 and the gamers' screams of pain (remember the nails?), will increase to 
 indicate the size of the stack.
 
 Each turn you must position one gamer atop a stack. Placing 3 or more with a 
 similar preference together, and they will be removed from the game and 
 added to your score.
 
 The game also comes with the following mmodes:
 
 Limited user base, in which you must convince only a set number of gamers 
 which is the right operating system (the rest don't matter), and dynamite 
 power user, which is the same as the main game accept that any gamers who 
 fail to make their minds up (despite the nails), will be blown up with 
 dynamite.
 
 Reacting change may be installed on all platforms, however note that to 
 install the game you must first install a copy of the game, since without a 
 copy of the game already installed it will be impossible to register the 
 files the game needs to install, also note that the game needs to be 
 installed in whatever directory your planning to install the game into, 
 other directories won't work.
 
 The game can be perchiced directly from Drop dead entertainment for the 
 small price of ten thousand dollars. This is a reduction from the price of 
 twenty thousand dollars we charged for our previous titles, so though there 
 is no demo of the game we think the price is quite reasonable!
 
 For those users who prefer, the game may also be perchiced from the crap 
 store on various systems.
 
 Also, we are very proud of the new security system we have for the game, 
 which is not to sell any copies, since that way we will lose nothing to 
 piracy either, and we think this is best for our customers and ourselves.
 
 So what are you waiting for! go and download reacting change now,  or 
 else!
 
 
 Yours sincerely, john mcslaughter, ceo drop dead entertainment!
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to

Re: [Audyssey] Newly released, reacting change!

Dark,

Michael and I have spent three solid days trying to help users with niche-case 
issues with CR 2 on Windows. Some have had male ware bogging down their 
systems, some have had hardware incompatibilities, some are just upset because 
they're using far outdated versions of Windows. Why are we doing this? To 
support those who are still running on XP, to a large extent.

While the majority of the users haven't had any issues, the issues that have 
come up are, for that very reason, extremely obscure and subtle problems that 
are frustrating to fix. We are preparing a minor update to hopefully cover some 
of these niche cases. The beta team is testing a build of that update now.

Our spirited debate, while frustrating and exasperating at times, hadn't left 
me with any particular ill feeling toward you. I do wish you would educate 
yourself better on latter versions of Windows and Apple products, as Tom has 
already covered succinctly, but ultimately it is you who loses out, not I, if 
you choose not to.

Perhaps under different circumstances, I may have found the post somewhat more 
amusing. At present, I am too tired to find it so. It may have come off as less 
vindictive, too, had you chosen additional targets, perhaps including yourself, 
rather than aiming so squarely at Draconis in general, and me in particular.

Let's let it go.

On May 1, 2013, at 9:21 PM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote:

 I appologise if this joke caused any issues, it was certainly not intended as 
 vindictive in any way shape or form, merely as a joke similar to those phil 
 and others have placed on list previously,  heck phil's last such joke 
 was at my own expense and! and that of my badly injured arm, yet I was 
 incredibly amused.
 
 I have noticed of late that there is far too much tention on list, and I 
 indeed myself am aware I have not helped this situation either, and my 
 attempt to clear it by humourous means obviously did not work.
 
 I will say however that with the way list discussion has gone recently (a 
 fact I am fully aware is partially my fault), I am seriously considdering 
 whether I wish to continue being subscribed to this list.
 
 Dark. 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Newly released, reacting change!

Hi Scott and all,

Now see…*this* is funny. You take jabs at all sides of the discussions, and it 
just comes back as satirical and lighthearted. Thanks for the laugh. I needed 
it.

On May 1, 2013, at 10:03 PM, Scott Chesworth scottcheswo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Draconis,
 
 Interesting that you're using this internet thingy to activate your
 most recent attempt at world domination. I have of course heard of it,
 though my initial experience of actually using it ended in 3 weeks of
 those wretched screaming goat videos on repeat before there was a
 capture, capcher, capchur, kapture, whatever!
 
 I assume your system works by connecting my clockwork computer to your
 Skynet 2.0 server room of doom, so as to exchange some form of
 electronic handshake. Whilst that does leave some choice in the hands
 of the user such as how hard they'd like to pedal their computer or
 whether they actually want to buy the game in the first place, I
 believe that this system may have wider implications, such as the
 devaluation of a human handshake shared between two living people who
 are alive.
 
 I'd like to propose a system whereby you find a way to visit the house
 of each person who purchases one of your games, at their convenience,
 install it for them, and naturally complete the registration with the
 aforementioned handshake. To be clear, I am aware that this may not be
 possible with your current 5000 strong workforce who I understand are
 kept on the brink of starvation in order for you to wear clothes
 manufactured entirely out of 3 dollar bills, but there is! a solution.
 My suggestion is that you put some man hours into the advancement of
 robotics and time travel, with the eventual goal that cheaper titles
 could be activated by robots. From my knowledge of these fields which
 has been acquired by extensive reading of the fantasy genre (no
 really, so many, many many, many, many many many many, many books),
 I'd estimate that about 42 hours would be required for you to have a
 few test robots hobbling about and offering something akin to the
 warm, firm handshake I so crave. Perhaps 42 hours and a couple of
 working lunches in the restaurant at the end of the universe, but I
 think you'll find that this is! achievable if you want it as much as
 we do. Of course, we the community will do our bit by constantly
 hounding you for updates on your progress, comparing you to Bavisoft
 if you so much as dare to take a stroll to the water cooler, and
 griping that we don't like the voice of our robotic registration rep,
 or that his (or indeed her) hands don't quite offer the same level of
 reassurance as the working mans would.
 
 As an aside, there could be added benefits. Imagine a system where you
 could pay 3 extra gold coins and have your robot pick up a pizza for
 you on the way. Hawaiian pizza and something akin to human contact
 both happening at the same time? I'm all of a flutter!
 
 Beware the ground, and everything under or upon it)
 
 Mark
 
 PS. the above was bought to you by a lack of sleep, which was in its
 turn caused by too many fizzy drinks. Every letter of every word is
 intended to be satirical, I am quite literally joshing with Josh...
 see what I did there? I know, the fun never ends people... kinda like
 this thread.
 
 
 On 5/2/13, Draconis i...@dracoent.com wrote:
 
 Sounds more vindictive to me, under the guise of trying to be funny.
 Certainly is creative, although I can think of more productive ways to
 direct creativity.
 
 For the record, Dark, our new registration system is almost entirely
 transparent to end users. The only additional requirement is an Internet
 connection. Not that facts seem to trouble you all that much in general.
 
 Ian…thanks for the support.
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] My First Impressions of Change Reaction 2 for Windows

Hi Tom,

Sadly, I am serious.

But your point about 98 being 15-years-old speaks to the broader point I was 
making as well. XP is 12-years-old now. Folks will either start migrating on 
their own terms, or find themselves in a position, sooner or later, when they 
are forced to migrate unexpectedly.

On Apr 30, 2013, at 12:27 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Josh,
 
 Are you serious? People are upset you aren't supporting Windows 98.
 The operating system is like 15 years old and hasn't been supported by
 anyone since 2006 or so. Some people seriously need to get their heads
 out of their backsides and realize that we, game developers, can't
 afford to support something that old forever.
 
 Cheers!
 
 On 4/29/13, Draconis i...@dracoent.com wrote:
 Glad you have it working, Kelly.
 
 On an aside, we are not using Java for the audio player, just HTML. There is
 a problem with some Firefox configurations, and with old versions of
 Internet Explorer, since IE is horrible about standards and keeping up with
 the times. We're working on fixing the Firefox issue, but not much we can do
 for old versions of IE.
 
 The reason that many places don't use MP3 downloads much any more is
 because, for most, they are inconvenient. I, personally, hate sites that
 still make me download an MP3 that I just want to listen to in the browser.
 Imagine if YouTube did this for videos!
 
 The VI community, in general, is one of the last groups to move, fighting
 all along the way, with technology as it changes. This is a partial reason
 why we see issues like the recent BSC situation with games that become
 obsolete. At some point, we have to draw a line in the sand and say, we just
 can't support those who choose to lag behind.
 
 That being said, we're doing everything we can to support as wide a group as
 possible. We wanted to drop XP support with the new game engine, but decided
 not to for now. However, we won't hang on to it forever. We've gotten emails
 from those upset we're not supporting Windows 98 anymore. We just can't.
 
 We'll continue to do our best to make as many gamers happy as we can.
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows

Hi Dark,

My responses are throughout.

*snip*
 1: compatibility with dos applications. 
 
 As a huge fan of text rpgs, I play not a few games with dos such as fallthru, 
 and age of legends, yet thanks to microsoft that would not be possible on a 
 64 bit machine. For sighted users this isn't a problem since they can use the 
 dosbox emulator, and indeed newer dos, or dos style applications are still 
 being developed using it, noteably Eamon deluxe (and since there are over 270 
 Eamon games that is quite a lot just on it's own). If a developer created a 
 screen reader friendly version of dosbox or a similar way to run 16 bit 
 console window applications, it would mean that older games, which have been 
 playable for the past 30 years would continue to be so for the blind 
 community. This is something I know the developer of Eamon deluxe has been 
 looking into and discussing with the dosbox dev team, but perhaps some 
 assistance from a programmer with more knolidge of screen readers' 
 interaction with windows would be of help, that is unless someone cannot 
 create say a small application that outputs dos text to sapi or similar. 
 *snip*

 First, there is a certain amount of irony that the first point on your list 
 is essentially that you want to be able to cling to the past in order to move 
 into the future. It is sort of like saying, thirty years ago, that you 
 wouldn't use a CD player because it couldn't play your vinyl records. I use 
 this analogy as someone who has a fair number of rare vinyl records which do 
 not exist in modern formats. This doesn't keep me from having a CD player, 
 or, these days, using iTunes. The vast, vast, vast majority of Windows users 
 never upgrade their existing machine. They go buy a cheap new computer which 
 happens to have the latest OS on it. When this occurs, rather than going 
 through channels to keep using obsolete software, hang on to the old machine 
 to play such games, and keep that machine in as good repair as possible, much 
 as I have had to do with vinyl record players over the years.

I still have my working Apple 2GS computer as well, specifically for the 
nostalgia playing the old games I had for it. I've had it for, likely, longer 
than many of the participants of this list have been alive, and it still works, 
because I've taken care of it.

So, while your option of an accessible DOS emulator would be the ideal, it is 
something that is relatively easily worked around.

*snip*
 2: audio games created using vb6 and direct x. 
 
 Microsoft have, as we've been told dropped vb6 support and messed about with 
 many of their direct x components. with the number of accessible games being 
 so small, it is a real shame when they cannot be run on newer machines due to 
 lack of support for the components. 
 
 Again, since windows xp existed as a viable os for close to 10 years and is 
 still largely in use today, we're talking about a long period of time and not 
 a few games, indeed a post last year on audiogames.net was from a 64 bit 
 windows user who complained that the upgrade actually lost! them more than it 
 gained. If I could be certain the dependencies to run games like classic pipe 
 were still available in some sense for post xp windows, I'd be less concerned 
 about upgrading my os. 
 
 While I know vb6 is likely to continue as a viable option provided 
 dependencies are installed, which is why developers like Jim and Aprone can 
 still write games in it, I'm less certain regarding other components, 
 especially with what I've heard of other games not working under later 
 windows versions.
 *snip*

This point is really just the same as your first point, with the same solutions 
available, be that virtual machines, emulation, or hanging on and maintaining 
an older machine for the time being.

And, as far as Draconis goes, we are working to move our games forward to 
modern operating systems.

*snip*
 3: interface. 
 
 There is no denying that microsoft have by their nature created an interface 
 which is more graphical, less logical and less customizable, a trend 
 continued in windows 8. It is not for instance possible to have listed menues 
 or coherent folder structures, not to mention the los of simpler, but more 
 user friendly things like outlook express (a program I'd really! miss). This 
 is frankly a pain in the arse, but is something I,  and likely others 
 would be willing to suffer if it were for an over all bennifit, however that 
 bennifit has not materialized. 
 *snip*

While I disagree that more graphical inherently means less accessible…I 
think that age-old myth has been dispelled for years…there's no denying that 
Microsoft has made a mess of things for everyone, not just visually impaired 
users. This is why I am a Mac user. It is less frustration, less expensive, and 
a far more productive and pleasant computing experience than what Microsoft 
currently offers. And, with the ability to install and boot

Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows

Hi Tom and Trouble,

All the more reason to have a dedicated, essentially frozen, machine for 
playing old games, etc. The less wear-and-tear you can put on it, using it just 
for the specific tasks it needs to be, the longer it is likely to last. Keeping 
it off the Internet most of the time would also be a good idea.


On Apr 30, 2013, at 9:03 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,
 
 Not only that, but the problem for people wanting to maintain XP after
 2014 is hardware support. After next year most hardware manufacturers
 will no longer be providing drivers for sound cards, video cards,
 network cards, etc for XP. So if someone needs to replace a hardware
 component for any reason someone running XP will have to go to Ebay or
 a used computer parts store to get XP compatible hardware just because
 all hardware and software support for XP ends next year weather
 people like it or not.
 
 Cheers!
 
 On 4/30/13, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
 Well were you live you might be able to get another xp box, but here
 in the states those are memories. The shops and stores sense win7
 came out now support that op and won't even think of selling xp. Its
 just like computers you may have a good running box. However,
 progress makes that box out dated before the year is out. Progress
 always moves forward not backward in the case of xp. Even software
 creators see that and move with it those that don't no longer
 have  saleable software. So you keep that xp box and when the new
 stuff won't work on it don't cry, because you chose that option not
 software providers.
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows

Hi Tom and all,

I agree entirely, which is why, in my previous note, I specified that the mess 
isn't just for screen reader users. Windows 8 is widely getting slammed by 
users because it is a mess, but that has nothing to do with the accessibility. 
Microsoft is improving with access, even if it is extremely late to the party.

On Apr 30, 2013, at 11:04 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Dallas,
 
 Correct. One of the things Windows 8 brings to the table regarding
 accessibility is Microsoft Narrator is vastly improved over prior
 versions.Wile I wouldn't take it over something like NVDA it is far
 better than anything else Microsoft has provided before. Better screen
 review commands, and better Sapi voices as well. Some of the new
 Microsoft voices on Windows 8 are easily as good as the Vocalizer
 voices and they come free with the OS. I've used Microsoft David with
 NvDA and Narrator and it isn't too bad.
 
 Further more Microsoft has replaced MSAA with U.I. Automation which is
 a far better API than MSAA ever was. U.I. Automation is the way of the
 future and will revolutionize access on Windows 8 and beyond. As a
 result of technologies like U.I. Automation screen readers like Jaws
 and Window-Eyes no longer need off-screen models and video drivers to
 read the screen because they can get it from the Windows API directly.
 This will only aid not  hinder access.
 
 Bottom line, the user interface has changed drastically in Windows 8
 since Windows XP, but different is not the same as inaccessible. The
 statement that Microsoft is getting less accessible is just propaganda
 bandied about by people who are trying to justify not upgrading to
 Windows 8.
 
 Cheers!
 
 
 On 4/30/13, Dallas O'Brien dallas.r.obr...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi, also, I'm not too sure where the idea that Microsoft has not been
 helping accessibility in more modern versions of windows.
 In fact, Windows 7, and more especially windows 8, are far more accessible
 than XP ever was. And their knew protocols, and APIs, that provide better
 accessibility now, then before. So again, not sure where this one came from.
 And I agree,, having an old machine with the older OS, is often the better
 option. Obviously, if you're fine with what you have now, then stay with it.
 However, XP will be losing support as of this time next year. So I would
 suggest, that you start looking at moving ahead now, before you're forced
 to.
 Mainly, because of the security risk you will be dealing with, when XP no
 longer is being provided the security updates. And in this modern world,
 where you are connected so much, to the Internet, it would be pointless to
 remain in a less secure OS.
 I myself, am seriously considering going with a Mac for my next computer,
 and dual booting windows on it. Best of both worlds. The only problem with
 that, is the cost of a Mac out right. Anyway, on with the games. LOL.
 Regards:
 Dallas
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows

Hi Dark,

Responses throughout again.

*snip*
 one of my intrinsic problems with this upgrade business is to do with 
 practical good and also practicality of how many computers one can actually 
 own.
 
 i do not actually have the space for more than one desktop, plus laptops have 
 a shorter life generally. Virtual xp is always a solution next to a main os, 
 but how well that runs I'm not sure over all.
 *snip*

These days, with SSD's and the like, laptops have comparable life-spans to 
desktops. And, since several options proposed do *not* involve having multiple 
machines, I fail to see the problem here, either.

*snip*
 As regards windows 7 generally however, one of my main issues with this 
 debate is that programmers take a look at a new system and say wow, look at 
 the specs, look at the hardware, support for this that and the other etc
 
 Myself, i don't give a monkey's rear how much ram a computer has, what 
 programs it runs what processor it has etc, it's all a question of what can I 
 do with it. This is also wy i cryticize post xp windows and microsoft's over 
 all approach to interface generally, since frankly having used windows 7 on 
 several machines I do not agree with dallas point, and while classic shell 
 might be an option, well why should I move from an interface I'm comfortable 
 with, that I can personally customize to one I must jigger with in order to 
 work? and that's not just in the programs either.
 *snip*

No one here has said anything about RAM or any other hardware specs, so that 
argument is coming out of left field. Generally speaking, i don't care that 
much about hardware specs either. It is the usability of the machine that is 
the main concern.

People have given you quite a few good reasons to upgrade in this thread, you 
just aren't listening, because your mind is already made up, and you aren't 
really considering other possible scenarios. If in a couple of years you're 
still running XP and a newly discovered security exploit leaves you high and 
dry, then that is the risk you are choosing to take. If you still go out and 
purchase another XP machine after that, then you've got no one to blame but 
yourself.

*snip*
 if there were hundreds of great new games which required windows 7, well I'd 
 likely have a good reason to, but that is simply not the case, which is quite 
 ironic given that I did make a similar switch from windows 98 to xp back in 
 2002 for precisely that reason.
 *snip*

Back then, there wasn't a contingency of users trying to keep developers from 
moving on to XP, hence you were forced to change. I propose developers do this 
again to help move things along. *grin*

*snip*
 From a pure usability perspective, mac is probably a better option than post 
 xp windows at the moment, however legacy support is a severe issue, 
 particularly with developers who continue to essentially write for xp, and 
 even more specifically when there are comparatively few audio games on mac.
 *snip*

Since on a Mac you can have a native install of XP or any other version of 
Windows you like since, I fail to understand this argument. By having a Mac 
with a *native* install of XP, or Win7, or whatever you want, you have the best 
of both worlds in a machine that you will probably be able to use for years and 
years to come. A modern OS for debs who are moving forward, and an XP install 
for your old titles.

*snip*
while I do appreciate the issues that developers have, at the same time there 
is an element of give and take needed I think, which is exactly why I suggested 
developers aide in this situation, eg, by writing a guide on virtual xp 
emulation with download for mac and windows 7, for trying to do something about 
dosbox and vb6 etc, since at least for some people sticking with xp it is a bit 
more than simple bloodymindedness, and if developers do indeed want more people 
to shift to newer os so that they can take advantage of all this stuff, maybe 
this is something that they can help with.
 *snip*

As I said, for our part, we're moving our games forward to modern OS's. I think 
asking developers to give up what they are working on to solve your problems is 
a bit much, especially when there are simpler solutions already available than 
what you are proposing be done. Windows 7 with a classic shell, XP on a dual 
boot system, Mac/Windows dual boot system, etc.

Many of your arguments are based on incorrect or long out-of-date assumptions, 
much like your assertion in previous discussions about iTunes music, etc. You 
have several folks here explaining to you that things don't need to be the doom 
and gloom you say, and giving you several possible options to the problems you 
raise.

If sticking with XP is what you want, by all means stick with it, but 
understand that you can't rely on others to bail you out if that decision 
backfires…whether that means that you start missing out on games that won't run 
on XP, your security is compromised by a new

Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows

Charles,

The biggest reason for this is the future. Look what has happened to BSC games. 
XP has far more years behind than ahead. We can't afford to make games that 
might, at best, have only 2 or 3 years of a life span.

And, at present, we are in a weird transition time. We have roughly equal 
numbers of Win7 and Win XP users at the moment, with XP only a very slight 
advantage, judging by the visitor stats to the Draconis website. If we focus on 
XP, we're compromising the experience for users of new versions of Windows, in 
order to support users who can only realistically continue using XP for a very 
short time to come, comparatively speaking.

The only logical thing to do is support as much as we can, with a focus on the 
newer systems, which eventually everyone will be using like it or not. 
Otherwise, we're pouring our effort into something that, in just a few years, 
will be useless. Draconis, at least, is trying to avoid the fate BSC titles now 
face.

Microsoft could have made this transition smoother for developers and users 
alike, but didn't . We're all muddling through.

On Apr 30, 2013, at 12:28 PM, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote:

 Why shouldn't it be the other way around?  Support what is used by the users 
 rather than use what isn't supported and then try to support what is used?
 
 --
 If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors!
 - Original Message - From: Dallas O'Brien 
 dallas.r.obr...@gmail.com
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:42 AM
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows
 
 
 Hi, on top of all this, there is one simple thing to look at. Look at the 
 main gaming industry. There are a lot of games out there that do not support 
 anything less than Windows 7. So we aren't the first to see this happen. In 
 fact, the audio games industry is being held back by the fact that we are 
 being encouraged to keep supporting old OSs.
 So I think it's time that we look at the bigger picture of computing, and 
 the capabilities that new OSs provide, and look at upgrading and what it 
 would providers, rather than what it does not provide us!
 
 Regards:
 Dallas
 
 
 On 30/04/2013, at 22:50, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi Dark,
 
 Like so many things in life there are two sides to every argument, and
 I certainly can't dispute that the issues you raised are valid, but
 there is another side to the debate as well.
 
 It is true that on 64-bit versions of Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8
 it is not possible to play older 16-bit Dos games without a
 third-party emulator like Dosbox which is unfortunately not
 accessible. However, the real problem is not Windows, but the newer
 64-bit processors themselves as they can not execute 16-bit
 applications natively which is why Microsoft dropped 16-bit support in
 newer versions of Windows.  The problem for developers like Microsoft
 is why should they spend time and money trying to support old 16-bit
 applications that is no longer supported by the hardware of today when
 there are free applications like Dosbox available?
 
 However, the problem with making Dosbox accessible is easier said than
 done. From what I know of Dosbox in order to make it accessible a
 developer would be better off rewriting the emulator completely from
 scratch. That is no minor undertaking, and are you and the rest of the
 V.I. community willing to pay for this to be done?
 
 The second issue you raised is that of Visual Basic 6 support. I
 frankly don't know what you expect us developers to do about that
 situation. In my opinion there is frankly nothing we can do about that
 situation directly. The only thing we can do as end users and
 developers is encourage those using Visual Basic to upgrade to
 something more modern as quickly as they can to avoid any more
 needless compatibility issues. Otherwise we are going to experience
 more issues like those with the BSC games and Windows 8 as newer
 versions of Windows become available.
 
 What I am about to say will sound harsh to many, but I think it needs
 to be said. As early as 2006 I remember Microsoft actively encouraging
 Visual Basic 6 developers to upgrade to VB .NET and to move away from
 DirectX 8 as time was running out. Most of the mainstream developers
 listened and chose to begin upgrading their software to VB .NET 2005.
 Here we are nearly 7 years later and the majority of audio game
 developers are still using it even though Visual Basic 6 was
 discontinued as far back as 2008. So any compatibility issues we have
 with games and Windows 8 are the fault of those audio game developers
 who have chosen for one reason or another not to adopt newer
 programming languages and tools. It is the audio game developers who
 are making it difficult to upgrade to say Windows 8 without worrying
 if game x will or won't be compatible not Microsoft. Its not like
 Microsoft didn't

Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows

Well, as Tom said, and I eluded to, there isn't really much to add. The process 
for installing a VM, at least on Mac, is extremely simple for anyone. It 
literally consists of these steps:

1. Install the VMWare Fusion app, which is 100% accessible.
2. Insert a Windows XP install disc and click to create a new VM.
3. Follow the prompts and type in the key for the Windows XP disc.
4. VMWare does all of the inaccessible Windows installation screens for you, so 
you're done. install your screen reader and use Windows.

That's literally all there is to it. I've actually done this several times 
already.

On Apr 30, 2013, at 12:46 PM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote:

 Hi josh.
 
 I never said I would not! upgrade, only that I had looked at the pros and 
 cons and decided against it. Remember, my comments about the interface in 
 windows 7 do not just reflect the main start menue and windows explorer, but 
 also programs like outlook express, microsoft office etc, since in windows 7 
 all of those things change. Also bare in mind these are not based upon 
 unwarrented assumptions, but on several hours spen looking around a number of 
 machines running windows 7. It is true I have not yet tried windows 8, so my 
 comments are mostly directed at windows 7 in particular.
 
 as far as virtual machines go, this is precisely why I suggest! people put 
 out more information. for a none programmer, running a virtual machine is not 
 such a simple matter at all, aprticularly without vision, and though I have 
 red articals on the subject nothing has looked symple particularly when you 
 cannot read the windows boot screen etc, hence my original suggestion.
 
 as to creating post xp games, well that would give a reason to upgrade, 
 though bare in mind there are so many negatives with windows 7 there would 
 need to be a lot of extremely good games to count the balance,  as indeed 
 there are currently on Iphone.
 
 Beware the Grue!
 
 Dark. 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows

Hi Charles,

*snip*
 Response:  This does make sense if or when the money can be found.  A Mac 
 costs more, but the costs associated with Freedom Scientific's SMA are 
 eliminated.
 *snip*

That, but the idea that Macs cost more is not true. If you get a PC with the 
same specs and quality of a Mac, it will be the same price as a Mac. The only 
difference is that Apple chooses not to make computers in the extreme low-end 
of the market, which is where most PC's are these days. Macs have much longer 
life spans than PC's, in general, as well, and Apple supports older hardware 
much, much longer than any other company out there. So, there are a lot of 
benefits in purchasing a better machine upfront that ultimately results in a 
cheaper experience. Not to mention the much lower cost of upgrading the machine 
to the new OS. Apple makes this as simple as two clicks, and typically only 
charges $20 for each new version of the OS, as opposed to the hundreds for a 
new version of Windows.

Put another, much mor exaggerated way, it is like saying that a gold wedding 
ring costs more than Halloween costume jewelry. It is sorta true, but you're 
not really comparing apples to apples.

*snip*
 As for using Windows 7 with a classic shell, if the OS had not been so 
 drastically changed, there would be no need for the classic shell.  It is 
 there because people would be using it because they like the feel and ease of 
 use of the older operating system.  If we like the operation of the old, why 
 was the change made to begin with?
 *snip*

Most sighted users I've spoken to who use Win7, are perfectly happy with the 
new interface. The classic shell is there for those who preferred it, but this 
really comes down to taste. Frankly, no Windows interface has ever been very 
well designed. It is there to give users options. Much as I can choose to use 
Apple's Alex voice, Nuance's Karen voice, or something else.
 

---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows

Hi Tom and all,

Just adding to what Tom is saying here. This is a little long, so I hope you 
will all stick with me.

This is also why I am a proponent of Apple's model. Apple iterates existing 
products along a trajectory that eliminates the perceived obsolescence 
technique. They only update the physical or user interface designs of their 
products infrequently, and there software upgrades are designed to improve the 
experience, rather than change it. The iPhone is a prime example. While Apple 
has added new features and capabilities to it, the system looks and works very 
much the same as it did when they first introduced it in 2007. This year, they 
are planning a UI overhaul, but even that has more to do with aesthetics, and 
the actual layout and functionality is expected to stay exactly the same.

Since Apple does this, they keep older products on the market, steadily 
dropping their price as the cost of the older components goes down, but they 
still make a point to update the older products with software updates. For 
example, iOS 6, the current version of the software for the iPhone, still runs 
on the iPhone 3GS with most features working, even though the 3GS went on sale 
four years ago. This is quite remarkable in this industry.

Macs are handled in much the same way. I used the same MacBook as my primary 
machine for 6 years, and it ran perfectly fine with the latest OS up until the 
day I replaced it. And boy, let me tell you, that thing took a beating.

Taking this further, Draconis could have thrown some new sounds into 
ChangeReaction 2 and called it a new game, with basically all the same features 
and play of the original game, and tried to get users to upgrade that way. 
Instead, we wanted to give them something to make upgrading worth the cost, 
such as essentially two new games in addition to the original, a built-in 
tutorial system, etc. We're taking our model from Apple's lead which, despite 
Dark's protestations, is actually designed to benefit the users first and 
foremost. Apple's main philosophy is that, if you put the users and their 
experience first, customers will come to you. So far, it is working very well 
for them, and it is the philosophy we are employing as well.

On Apr 30, 2013, at 2:13 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Charles,
 
 that's close enough. However, I don't believe anyone said it was right
 or particularly. fair. That's just the way business generally works.
 
 For example, when I took a marketing class in college we studied a
 marketing technique called perceived obsolescence. The way it works is
 you take an existing product and you find a way to repackage and
 resell it to the customer without having to spend much on developing a
 new product to replace it.
 
 So let's say you purchased a brand new computer from Del with an
 almond colored case, keyboard, mouse, and flat screen display. Six
 months later Del has parts left over from that run so they put them in
 a brand new case that is smaller, painted black, and has a matching
 USB keyboard, wireless mouse, and flat screen monitor. The
 motherboard, hard drive, sound card, etc inside the computer is
 exactly the same as you purchased but because of the nice new case,
 keyboard and mouse you might think you are getting something new when
 it is the same product in a slightly different form.
 
 A lot of what Microsoft does is for the same reasons. I don't know too
 many people who likes the ribbons in Microsoft Office and File
 Explorer etc but it looks different. I figure the primary reason they
 do it is because of perceived obsolescence. They can take a product
 like Wordpad, which has been around for years, and make it new just by
 taking out the menu bars, replacing them with ribbons, changing a few
 other user interface elements and packing it on their new OS as an
 updated version of the software when in reality the software hasn't
 changed. There isn't anything new we didn't have before like a spell
 checker, grammar checker, thesaurus, whatever, but it looks new and is
 marketed as such.
 
 Cheers!


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] challenge for developers, post xp windows

Hi all,

One other point to be addressed here, too…

This scenario is not just about the cost of upgrading, or the backwards 
compatibility. Even when these issues are not factors, for whatever reason, 
visually impaired users often do not upgrade.

For example, where regards browsers, I can see in our website stats that many 
users on a variety of Windows operating systems, are using long out-of-date web 
browsers. These, in general, cost nothing to upgrade, provide much better 
security when upgrading, do not tend to have backwards compatibility issues, 
and rarely have drastic interface changes, if ever.

And yet, I can see Windows XP, Vista,  and 7 users using versions of Firefox 
and IE that are years out of date. Not even counting the Windows 98 users on IE 
3 who have visited the site in recent days.

I do not doubt that in some cases the points being raised about cost and 
backwards compatibility are indeed deterrents to upgrading. I also do not doubt 
that many visually impaired users simply don't upgrade because they refuse to 
adapt to a changing world. It isn't all one or the other, by any means, but I 
think there is a lot more of the latter than many would like to admit.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Wondering about the size of the audio gaming community


The piracy number doesn't surprise me. It is a bit higher than what we've seen, 
but not by too much, hence our new registration system going forward. It's sad.

On Apr 30, 2013, at 7:02 PM, dan cook dan.sc...@gmail.com wrote:

 for some reason, i'm shocked about the piracy number, especially with
 VI folks.  And they wonder why developers don't stick around?
 
 maybe it's an exajuration, but still.
 
 
 On 4/30/13, Dallas O'Brien dallas.r.obr...@gmail.com wrote:
 In regards to finding out a little more about who games and how many are out
 there. I would suggest creating a survey page, and transmitting it on
 Twitter and other social networks. You would be very surprised how quickly
 it gets out there, and how many people will respond. Just a suggestion, but
 perhaps you could create something to find out. Would be very interesting to
 know who plays what kind of games, what games people would be interested in
 if it were to be created. And how many are out there in total, and other
 such information.
 Regards:
 Dallas
 
 
 On 01/05/2013, at 7:13, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi Ian,
 
 Well, the number of members who are subscribed to the Audyssey list
 generally is about 300 give or take a few. In the six years or so
 since I have been moderating the list sometimes it has been as low as
 280 and as high as 320 per month. It just depends on how many
 subscribe and unsubscribe. However, I don't believe that is anywhere
 near the number of actual people who are out there playing games.
 
 I think the best estimates given is that the audio games community is
 somewhere between 1000 and 2000 members total. However, as yet I don't
 know if there is a good way to run a survey to find out something more
 substantial.
 
 Cheers!
 
 
 On 4/30/13, Ian Reed supp...@blindaudiogames.com wrote:
 Hi Tom, Dark, and developers,
 
 Tom, I was just curious to know how many people are subscribed to this
 list.
 It would give me a bit more of an idea about the size of the audio
 gaming community.
 
 Dark, I noticed that forum.audiogames.net states there are 12,762
 registered users.
 I wonder if this number includes spam bots that created accounts and
 were subsequently banned.
 Do you have any idea about the number of registered users who have
 visited the site in recent history?
 
 Just curious.  I appreciate any information you can share.
 
 It would also be very interesting to hear the number of actual audio
 game sales from developers but I understand if they wish to keep this
 private.
 
 For my part I will share that I have between 90 and 190 unique players
 of my games in a month and have had 513 users register to play since my
 first release.
 
 These numbers are definitely not something to base a business on as even
 190 users playing my free games does not equal 190 users willing to
 purchase a game.
 And if I may say so, recent conversations on this list lead me to
 believe that a high number of people would attempt to pirate any games
 offered for purchase which make those numbers even weaker.
 
 My games are perhaps not as well targeted or advertised as others so I
 wonder if there is a lot more audio games community out there.
 
 I have also heard Aprone quote numbers in the thousands for those who
 play Swamp on a fairly consistent basis.  I'd be interested to hear
 those again if you're reading Aprone.
 
 Draconis, you seem to be able to maintain a very professional company
 which includes more than just yourself.
 As an audio game developer who would love to someday be able to support
 myself full time writing audio games I'd be interested to know if your
 company is able to support you full time or is more of a supplemental
 income.
 
 Feel free to write me off list if anyone is willing to share things on
 an individual basis but not with the entire list.
 
 Ian Reed
 supp...@blindaudiogames.com
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the
 list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the
 list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
 gamers-unsubscr

Re: [Audyssey] Piracy rate?


Don't want to get into too many details publicly, but, at least for our part, 
there are certain things we've been able to track over the course of many, many 
years. By collecting as much data as possible, you can make reasonably well 
educated guesses on how many users have pirated a particular title, and compare 
that to the sales you have had.

On Apr 30, 2013, at 8:10 PM, Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net wrote:

 Hi guys,
 I am incredibly curious.
 JHow does an audio game developer discover how many people have pirated their 
 game? I mean, 90% is huge. I have trouble starting my computer, but 
 apparently most of the VI community has developed super villain hacking 
 skills. Is there a special class?
 Ok, I am being facetious, but it just sounds really improbable to me. How do 
 you know? Are you able to track it ? If you can track it, can't you stop it 
 once tracked? 
 
 Thanks for any input,
 al
 
 The truth will set you free
 Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D.
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

[Audyssey] ChangeReaction 2 for Windows Is Released

It's finally here!

Draconis Entertainment is pleased to announce the release of ChangeReaction 2 
for Windows! Now users of Microsoft platforms can discover the excitement of 
this reworking of the classic puzzle game! With three variations of game play, 
three difficulty levels, all new sounds, and built with the next-generation 
Draconis Game Engine, ChangeReaction 2 is explosive fun for audio gamers of all 
ages!

You can discover more details, listen to an audio demonstration, or purchase 
the game from the [ChangeReaction for Windows 
page!](http://dracoent.com/Windows/ChangeReaction)

ChangeReaction 2 is priced at $9.99 USD. If you purchased the game on or after 
12/December/2012, you have automatically been sent an email with upgrade 
details. If you purchased ChangeReaction V1.X prior to 12/December, the new 
lower price of $9.99 applies.

Happy gaming!


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] ChangeReaction 2 for Windows Is Released


It audio player requires a modern browser capable of HTML5. If you are using 
Firefox, it may also require a plugin for playing MP3 files.

However, you can hear the demo at this link as well:

http://dracoent.com/audio/ChangeReaction.mp3

Note that the TTS voice in the audio demo is a Mac voice. The game is 
identical, but it will use whatever TTS voices you have set on your machine.

On Apr 29, 2013, at 9:06 AM, Sarah Haake ti...@gmx.net wrote:

 Hi,
 
 great that it's finally out! I'm really looking forward to playing this new 
 version.
 
 Just one other thing. When I click on the link which says hear demo, the link 
 changes to play/pause, but I can't hear anything. Any idea why? Thanks for 
 answering.
 
 And thanks for the new Windows release! *smiles*
 
 Best regards
 Sarah
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] My First Impressions of Change Reaction 2 for Windows

Kelly,

Looks like you may be having a problem that occurs with some audio devices on 
Windows XP. We have a knowledge base article on our site that I suspect will 
solve your problems. Try this out and let us know if this helps:

http://help.dracoent.com/knowledgebase.php?article=15

For the record, the coins are always read in this version. They are not 
supposed to be cut off while moving.

On Apr 29, 2013, at 1:55 PM, Kelly Sapergia ksaper...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,
 
 Since I enjoy playing the original Change Reaction, I was very excited about 
 this new version of the game, and immediately bought it upon reading the 
 announcement on Draconis's Twitter feed. Actually, I first downloaded the 
 file from their website and installed it after first removing version 1, and 
 discovered, to my surprise, that there's no playable demo! I know there's an 
 audio demo on the site, but I couldn't get it to play using their player, 
 which I believe is Java-based. (I personally don't know why developers have 
 to use these players on their sites. I think it's better to just link to an 
 MP3 file so the visitor can listen to it in their favorite player.)
 
 Purchasing and registering the game was simple, but I noticed that the 
 information displayed on the screen when you're presented with the 
 registration dialog wasn't spoken automatically by JFW, or even a TTS engine 
 like it was in the first version. I had to use the JAWS cursor to read it.
 
 After getting into the game, I listened to most of the tutorials for the 
 various game types. I personally would've prefered a manual like the previous 
 version had, but the Learn to Play option isn't bad, though I noticed that if 
 you move back a page with the Left Arrow, for example, the speech tends to 
 read something else, or at least doesn't seem to skip to that section right 
 away.
 
 Now we come to gameplay, and this is where I'm really having problems. (I 
 should mention that I'm playing this game using Windows XP.) So far, I've 
 just played, or rather tried to play, the Classic mode. Either I'm so used to 
 version 1's gameplay, or I'm not doing something right in version 2, but 
 there are times things don't seem to work propperly. In particular, I've 
 noticed that speech doesn't get interrupted when quickly pressing the Left 
 and Right arrow keys, like in version 1. There are also times when I don't 
 get any speech at all for awhile, or else I'll be on a coin, but the previous 
 one isn't read out. As well, I might press Space when I'm on a Penny, for 
 example, which may be the coin I have to match, and nothing appears to 
 happen. No laughing noise or anything! The first time I started noticing all 
 this behavior, I thought my keyboard was acting up, even though I had 
 unloaded my screen reader completely. I've even noticed that the sound you 
 hear when a lit bomb explodes doesn't play half the time. I might be on a 
 bomb, and then I hear the scream, but no proceeding explosion.
 
 In conclusion, Change Reaction 2 might be a good game, but so far I'm 
 beginning to think I should've stuck with version 1 until these bugs were 
 squashed.
 
 Thanks.
 
 Yours Sincerely,
 Kelly John Sapergia
 Show Host and Production Director
 The Global Voice Internet Radio
 www.theglobalvoice.info
 
 Personal Website: www.ksapergia.net
 Business Website (KJS Productions): www.kjsproductions.com
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Speed of getting keys for Change Reaction?


Keys are automatically generated and emailed. The person who bought the game 
should check their spam or junk folders, as keys are sometimes mis-marked as 
spam.

Submit a ticket at the help desk to contact us if you don't have your key, and 
make sure you let us know who ordered the game, their email address, and 
approximate date of purchase to speed up the process.

On Apr 29, 2013, at 1:51 PM, Ryan Conroy staindadd...@juno.com wrote:

 Hi Draconis,
 
 A friend ordered me a key for Change Reaction a while ago, and I still not 
 received my key. How do you go about sending the keys? Is it automatic, or do 
 you do it manually?
 I just thought I'd post on here, for I do not see any way to contact you on 
 your website.
 
 Ryan
 
 -- Original Message --
 From: MamaPeach mamape...@charter.net
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Chain Reaction
 Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 13:41:26 -0400
 
 What do you see piracy as being? It means flat out stealing
 
 -Original Message- 
 From: Nicole white
 Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 12:26 PM
 To: gamers@audyssey.org
 Subject: [Audyssey] Chain Reaction
 
 This sia game where the words connect together to form a word train and they
 give yo uhints to figure it out.
 As far as Change Reaction, i aboslutely don't have the money for that
 either.
 If someone wishes to drop box it to me, i have no issue with that.
 i never saw piracy as stealing.
 i always thought that stealing that you had to personally pick something up
 and take it.
 If stealing has multiple meaningsk, please explain them to me.
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. 
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 
 Banks Forced to Forgive Credit Card Debt
 See how much of your debt could be settled!
 http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/517eb3782511e33776035st03vuc
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

[Audyssey] Contacting us and ChangeReaction 2 for WIndows

Hello all,

Since some folks seem to be confused, we just wanted to send another message 
about contacting us.

We have a very easy to use Help Desk setup at http://dracoent.com where you can 
submit support tickets, and where we are adding knowledge base articles as fast 
as we can regarding common problems or questions.

You can check the KB first for a quick answer to something, then you can submit 
a ticket if you don't find the answer.

It is impossible to test for every possible combination of Windows hardware and 
software, so there are bound to be a few problems on specific configurations. 
We need you to report it if you do have problems, so we can try to correct or 
find workarounds for issues that occur under certain circumstances.

ChangeReaction 2 was tested on operating systems from XP to Win7, on a variety 
of different kinds of hardware, not to mention on Mac OS X as well, which is 
significant since we are using nearly all the same code for both platforms.

Thanks all.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] My First Impressions of Change Reaction 2 for Windows

Glad you have it working, Kelly.

On an aside, we are not using Java for the audio player, just HTML. There is a 
problem with some Firefox configurations, and with old versions of Internet 
Explorer, since IE is horrible about standards and keeping up with the times. 
We're working on fixing the Firefox issue, but not much we can do for old 
versions of IE.

The reason that many places don't use MP3 downloads much any more is because, 
for most, they are inconvenient. I, personally, hate sites that still make me 
download an MP3 that I just want to listen to in the browser. Imagine if 
YouTube did this for videos!

The VI community, in general, is one of the last groups to move, fighting all 
along the way, with technology as it changes. This is a partial reason why we 
see issues like the recent BSC situation with games that become obsolete. At 
some point, we have to draw a line in the sand and say, we just can't support 
those who choose to lag behind.

That being said, we're doing everything we can to support as wide a group as 
possible. We wanted to drop XP support with the new game engine, but decided 
not to for now. However, we won't hang on to it forever. We've gotten emails 
from those upset we're not supporting Windows 98 anymore. We just can't.

We'll continue to do our best to make as many gamers happy as we can.

On Apr 29, 2013, at 2:44 PM, Kelly Sapergia ksaper...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,
 
 First, thanks to Draconis for the tip on changing sound cards. Turns out it 
 was my RealTech card that was causing the trouble. After I chose my M-Audio 
 Audiophile 2496 card, the game played flawlessly, and I got $29.36 in the 
 first game! Before reading the tip though, I thought it might be my 
 computer's memory, but I've got 1.99 GHZ of RAM, and am running the game on a 
 2.39 GHZ processor. I take back what I said before about this version, it's a 
 lot of fun to play!
 
 Thanks again.
 
 Yours Sincerely,
 Kelly John Sapergia
 Show Host and Production Director
 The Global Voice Internet Radio
 www.theglobalvoice.info
 
 Personal Website: www.ksapergia.net
 Business Website (KJS Productions): www.kjsproductions.com
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Playing MP3 files in a browser Was: My First Impressions of Change Reaction 2 for Windows

Hi Sarah,

Thanks for your note.

We could actually very easily offer the same kind of playback controls in the 
browser as YouTube does for MP3's, as that kind of control is now standard in 
HTML5. However, it becomes very difficult to do so and support older browsers, 
which we are stuck doing since so many people choose to use older ones.

It's a trade-off, as so many things are.

This is also one of many reasons why we're releasing for Mac first and Windows 
second now. Mac users tend to stay up-to-date, because it is very easy, and 
very inexpensive, to do so, compared to Windows. It is getting more and more 
difficult all the time to support Windows users, especially the more fragmented 
the Windows base becomes.

We only launched our new site last week, so we'll try to refine things like 
this to accommodate as many users as we can. We really do appreciate the 
feedback!

On Apr 29, 2013, at 6:14 PM, Sarah Haake ti...@gmx.net wrote:

 Hi,
 
 just a quick note about playing MP3 files in a browser. The difference to 
 Youtube videos is, that I can see how long a video is, I can pause and resume 
 the playback and fast forward it, etc. Usually when a MP3 starts playing in 
 Firefox, I just get a blank page and can just sit there and listen to the 
 file, hoping it doesn't last too long for my time right now. Seeing this, I 
 find it much more convenient to just download the file and play it in my own 
 player, so that I have some kind of control over the playback and the time I 
 spend with it.
 
 This of course would be something different if sites which play files 
 directly in a browser would provide a reasonable player, just like Youtube 
 does.
 
 Best regards
 Sarah
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

[Audyssey] ChangeReaction 2 -- High Scores

Greetings gamers,

For those of you already playing ChangeReaction 2 for Windows, we'd be curious 
to hear what kinds of high scores you're getting. It is possible to get much 
higher scores with some of the variations and difficulty levels in CR2 than was 
ever possible with CR1.

At this point, the highest scores I am aware of are $202 and change for the 
Classic game in CR2, and $479.22 for PayDay.

Can you beat those?!


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] ChangeReaction 2 -- High Scores


ChangeReaction 2 remembers your highest score for each game and difficulty 
level, and announces it at the start of play for each of the variations.

On Apr 29, 2013, at 7:20 PM, joseph weakland josephweakl...@att.net wrote:

 does CR2 have a stats ffileyou can look at for scores you got?
 
 - Original Message - From: Draconis i...@dracoent.com
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 6:14 PM
 Subject: [Audyssey] ChangeReaction 2 -- High Scores
 
 
 Greetings gamers,
 
 For those of you already playing ChangeReaction 2 for Windows, we'd be 
 curious to hear what kinds of high scores you're getting. It is possible to 
 get much higher scores with some of the variations and difficulty levels in 
 CR2 than was ever possible with CR1.
 
 At this point, the highest scores I am aware of are $202 and change for the 
 Classic game in CR2, and $479.22 for PayDay.
 
 Can you beat those?!
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. 
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] ChangeReaction 2 -- High Scores


Don't feel too bad, Charles. I think my best Classic score is around $100. 
*grin* I am the proud owner of the $479.22 score on PayDay, though, and I don't 
think anyone has topped that yet.

On Apr 29, 2013, at 7:21 PM, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote:

 How disappointing!  And I thought I was doing so good at around $70 at the 
 classic game.  Wow, I've got work to do!  Fun work, too!
 
 --
 If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors!
 - Original Message - From: Draconis i...@dracoent.com
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 6:14 PM
 Subject: [Audyssey] ChangeReaction 2 -- High Scores
 
 
 Greetings gamers,
 
 For those of you already playing ChangeReaction 2 for Windows, we'd be 
 curious to hear what kinds of high scores you're getting. It is possible to 
 get much higher scores with some of the variations and difficulty levels in 
 CR2 than was ever possible with CR1.
 
 At this point, the highest scores I am aware of are $202 and change for the 
 Classic game in CR2, and $479.22 for PayDay.
 
 Can you beat those?!
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. 
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] ChangeReaction 2 -- High Scores


I have the PayDay score, and the man behind the voice of Old Man Stanley has 
the Classic score.

On Apr 29, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote:

 Out of curiosity, do you know who has gotten those high scores?
 
 --
 If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors!
 - Original Message - From: Draconis i...@dracoent.com
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 6:14 PM
 Subject: [Audyssey] ChangeReaction 2 -- High Scores
 
 
 Greetings gamers,
 
 For those of you already playing ChangeReaction 2 for Windows, we'd be 
 curious to hear what kinds of high scores you're getting. It is possible to 
 get much higher scores with some of the variations and difficulty levels in 
 CR2 than was ever possible with CR1.
 
 At this point, the highest scores I am aware of are $202 and change for the 
 Classic game in CR2, and $479.22 for PayDay.
 
 Can you beat those?!
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
 gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. 
 
 
 ---
 Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
 If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
 You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
 http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
 All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
 http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
 If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
 please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Change reaction podcast?

Several have been done for the Mac version, which is essentially identical to
the Windows version. The only significant differences are the need to register
the game on Windows, and that it will use whatever TTS voice is the system
default on your Windows machine.

One of these podcasts was done by Vision Australia for the AppleVis website,
and is available here:
http://www.applevis.com/podcast/episodes/changereaction-classic-audio-puzzle-game-comes-mac

If I recall correctly, they only demo the Classic game, not the two variations,
but I could be mistaken. Ben a long time since i listened to it.

On Apr 29, 2013, at 8:09 PM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote:

Hi.

I was wondering if someone would considder creating a podcast about change
reaction explaining some of the game and showing some of the different modes.

While I understand the reason for their not bieng a demo, with an arcade game
such as this it is difficult for me to evaluate whether or not I wish to buy
the game without playing it first. With rpgs, adventure games and such like I
tend to be willing to take chances, but with arcade style games I've noticed
myself that it depends heavily upon the design, soundscape etc, indeed I
have recently found that my interest in arcade style games is not what it
used to be mostly because there are now far more adventure and rpg games
which are more my sort of thing that I can spend my time on.

I would however like to give this game a chance since I know what work has
gone into it's developement, therefore if anyone is inclined to reccord a
review discussing the game that would be great.

All the best,

Dark.
---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Change reaction podcast?