Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-30 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Eleanor, I just read your white paper, and it was definitely a good read. Although, it focused on vidio game accessibility this is actually an issue that effects all software products and developers equally. Far too many software manufacturers create a certain software product, and then only

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-29 Thread Lisa Hayes
and you know Thomas, without the games we have and who the hell who says the sounds are no good, not me for sure. without the games we now have this forum wouldn't be here and no one would be complaining. Now I've had my computer fixed and can play games again I am revelling in what games I

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-29 Thread Lisa Hayes
and Canada as well for law changes. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 12:59 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-29 Thread Lisa Hayes
Thomas the list, is behind you and grateful for what you and our other developers do all for the delight of doing it too. And if someone can make a little money by selling games good for them. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-29 Thread Muhammed Deniz
Well, Well, Well, complaining doesn't really solve the situation. My audio games for the blind group. Discussions off topic are welcome in the holidays. Talking about games is welcome, talking about computer problems is welcome when their are know holidays but that's only in easter holidays or

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread Damien Pendleton
Hi Yohandy, There are several factors to consider here. Firstly, the blind gaming market is considerably smaller than the mainstream market, which is why people work by themselves on the games. Another contributing factor is the fact that the developers themselves are even fewer than the

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Yohandy, For the most part I do agree with your comments below, and as someone who has played several mainstream games over the years I know where you are coming from. However, as a software developer with several years of programming and experience under my belt I have to say your expectations

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, Very very true. One game you didn't mention that has many advanced features is Rail Racer by Blind Adrenaline. It comes with a track editor which allows you to add an unlimited number of custom tracks to the game. It also allows you to earn virtual money that can be turned in for

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, Lol! My thoughts exactly. However, it really does come down to manpower and financial resources. For example, lets compare Shades of Doom to Doom 3. Can they compare? Hell no. Why? Well, for an audio game Shades of Doom is a pretty good game, is pretty close to Doom 1, but it took David

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread Orin
Totally agreed. On May 27, 2010, at 9:19 PM, Ryan Conroy wrote: I couldn't agree more! -- Original Message -- From: clement chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread Orin
Uh. Dude, I doubt every one here is spending their money on iPhones, me included. Lol. On May 27, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Yohandy wrote: ok guys, I'm willing to hear your suggestions then. what do we do? just keep things the way they are and never have any advancement where audio games are

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread shaun everiss
well I like my nokia and vodaphone. besides the local blind org lets me have talks standard for 100 as part of the vodaphone contract so its not like I am changing to anything else. At 08:16 p.m. 28/05/2010, you wrote: Uh. Dude, I doubt every one here is spending their money on iPhones, me

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread Orin
Indeed, Entombed probably is the best game we have now in terms of playability. I'll say what we don't have though is a game with a complex interactive story. I think 3D Velocity is going to be the hardest game coming out this year, if it even comes out this summer or early fall, it is, in my

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread dark
Hi Tom. I fully agree on the extra missions and level packs idea, in fact several independent graphical developers have very much followed this model for the same reasons and it's worked out exceedingly well. Look at Niels bauer and their addons as an example. I certainly as a player would

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread dark
Very true tom, I did mention rail racer, but I didn't considder the card room, which I certainly should have done. Che is doing a great job there. As I said, I really think things are going very much in the right direction developement wise currently anyway. Beware the grue! Dark.

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread dark
Hi Tom. This is why I feel it's much more realistic and fairer to compare audio game developement to the developement of independent games with similar amounts of man power and resources, such as Hurrican. Generally I'd say audio games are stil slightly behind such things, --- but not by

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread Rick
Hi list. I don't normally join in on these discussions, but I've been wondering. I hear people say that the blind gaming community is small, and there is only so much money to be made on blind games. What I want to know is, is there a reason a blind developer couldn't try to team up with

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread dark
The basic issue is that graphics programming is it's own can of worms. That's why even though games like time of conflict, shades and sound rts have a minimal graphic display, it's not evey up to nes quality. Adding graphics reasonable enough to appeal to even the sited public who play

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi, That's a very good question. The best answer I can give you is that from a technical aspect audio games and video games are completely different in design. That is that audio games require special features that wouldn't work well in a fully graphical vidio game. Here is a simple case in point.

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Hayden, My thoughts exactly. Admitedly I am a bit put out by Yohandy's comments. Not because I don't understand them, as I have played several mainstream games myself I do, but the fact I am unable to meet his standards as a developer. I have put two years into what might be considered an

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread Bryan Peterson
Good one Thomas. I'd probably be tempted to do the same in your position. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread shaun everiss
thats a good idea. Unfortunately there have only been 3 companies that have actually done this. pininteractive with their teraformas game which i borrowed of a friend. my hidef card did not really like one of the rooms in the lower levels. it was in flash anyway. Then there is lastcrusade and the

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread Muhammed Deniz
What? Teriformers? I just hate that game! My audio games for the blind group. Discussions off topic are welcome in the holidays. Talking about games is welcome, talking about computer problems is welcome when their are know holidays but that's only in easter holidays or know holidays. If you

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Yohandy, Sigh...Weather you realise it or not, not every accessible game out there is just another space invaders clone like Troopenum or Aliens in the Outback. Have you ever tried Entombed, Rail Racer, 3D Velocity, or Time of Conflict? All of these are newer accessible games just coming onto

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread Charles Rivard
This is a fair answer and a fair offer. Rather than always complaining like, Why can't you guys create the games I want?, ask, How can I help to create the games I want? - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org

[Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread Eleanor
As a developer who is interested in making accessible games, I read all you folks had to say about what you want in audiogames. Yes, it would be great if these kinds of games would be available. The problem as I see it is that it is not only not economically feasible to do these kinds of

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread Bryan Peterson
Exactly. Pay me enough and I'll try to learn enough about BGT to create as close a game as possible to what you want. I'm gonna need to save up for the Pro version anyway. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread Charles Rivard
There no comparison between what you've been up to and what Yohandy's been up to as far as moving ahead in the blind gaming community. It's time for him to become an athlete, regardless of how skilled he starts out, or quit being an inexperienced umpire of the high school leagues trying to

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread Yohandy
Thomas, DO you truly believe if I thought your work was worthless I would've preordered the game? Heck man I can't wait for the game to be released and finally play the entire thing! I wasn't referring personally to you or any other accessible game dev, I was simply stating that we're behind

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Yohandy, Understood. No offense taken. I merely wanted to give my point of view from that of an accessible game developer doing his best to pproduce something a cut or two above the rest. to make a real difference here. Remember I'm just as anoyed, frustrated, and upset as you are that I can't

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread Jim Kitchen
Hi Yohandy, You know, if I had millions and millions of dollars that I had made from my previous game titles, I would hire a team to write the background story of the game idea that I have. It might be something like roller coaster tycoon. Next I would hire a team of programmers and sound

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread dark
Hi Tom. Really, only terraformers is a good example of a game with both graphics and audio. while I think nielsbauer do some great games, essentially, they are stil static, and turn based in nature. Yes, there is a litle animation sequence when your ship shoots at the enemy making the enemy

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread dark
Actually sean, last crusade didn't have any graphics, accept in the map editer. if you ask me it was a litle idiotic of the developers to release a graphical builder to make levels for an audio game, but there's no accounting for taste I suppose. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread Hayden Presley
Hi Jim, Hahaha! Where are you getting these oxymorons, or are you just thinking them up? Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Jim Kitchen Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 7:30 PM To: Yohandy Subject: Re:

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-28 Thread Hayden Presley
Hi, One comment--I do know he tried RailRacer, otherwise he's some kind of genious who knows how to create RailRacer tracks without testing them and they work. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of

[Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-27 Thread Yohandy
when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-27 Thread clement chou
Here here. I second that notion. Also, I think sequels are iportant as well. a shades of dom 2, or a GMA tank Cmmander 2, something like that. There are so many games with the potential to have sequels. Also, I think bigger games need to start having cutseens. Games like GMA Tank Commander,

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-27 Thread Ryan Conroy
I couldn't agree more! -- Original Message -- From: clement chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 18:19:54 -0800 Here here. I second that notion. Also,

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-27 Thread Bryan Peterson
Problem is there are a great number of people who wouldn't be willing to wait ten years for these games. I'm not saying we're not behind, because we are, but it's probably never going to happen. As has been pointed out endlessly, most developers are just single people, and even if you could

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-27 Thread Hayden Presley
Hi, And sound...can you imagine playing the equivalent of Mortal Combat with recorded sounds? Otherwise, you'd spend thousands upon thousands of dollars. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Bryan

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-27 Thread Charles Rivard
Where would be the profit in a game that takes, for example, 8 years to produce? More importantly, would devs be willing to spend that long on one project? Would gamers be willing to wait that long for a game? - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-27 Thread Charles Rivard
The one-man game developing company is not an excuse. It's a fact, so, while it is a shame, we've got to consider it. No ifs, ands, or buts. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-27 Thread Hayden Presley
Hi, Eight years spent on coding, and let's add on jobs etc to that. Shall we say...15 years? Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Hayden Presley Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:24 PM To: 'Gamers

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-27 Thread Yohandy
ok guys, I'm willing to hear your suggestions then. what do we do? just keep things the way they are and never have any advancement where audio games are concerned? don't shoot down my ideas, come up with some of your own. how will things be different in a few years? they wouldn't be. it'll

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-27 Thread Charles Rivard
Any interest in learning the programming in order to help the cause? If I had the time, I would. - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-27 Thread Bryan Peterson
Exactly. I know of a lot of people, some right here on this list, who wouldn't be willing to wait that long, much less without hounding the developer so much that the dev became burned out as Thomas has with MOTA. And he's only been working on this project for about four years overall. We're a

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-27 Thread Bryan Peterson
That's exactly what I was getting at. I certainly wouldn't be willing to spend eight to ten years on one project, and to be quite frank I'm not necessarily enough of a team player to be willing to work with other people, not even people I knew well. That's an excellent way to potentially ruin

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-27 Thread Bryan Peterson
And that's another valid point. Those cheapskates who can't be bothered to pay for a game are often only too happy to help others of their ilk obtain illegal copies of games, and unless we obtain copyrights for our products, which can be quite expensive, there's really nothing we can do about

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-27 Thread Ken
Yes, and by the end of that time, Vista, windows 7 and whatever else we'd be coding for would be history. Do you live near Sandusky Ohio, or are you planning a trip to Cedar Point? Receive a massage at very competitive rates--$40 per hour for a revitalizing therapeutic massage, $65 per

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-27 Thread Ken
One of the best gaming experiences I have had is in playing Quake, talking to the other players using Teamtalk. The only way that could have been better is if Teamtalk could have positioned players' audio so you could hear where they were. Do you live near Sandusky Ohio, or are you

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-27 Thread Hayden Presley
Hi Yahondy, Sigh. We never said we wouldn't do it. That's not the issue. You are right, it is hard. You mentioned Street Fighter IV. How many devs do you think were working on that game? I grant you, I'd like to see some mainstream titles myself, but the way you are going about it, it sounds like

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-27 Thread Christopher Bartlett
Lest all be doom and gloom, I'd like to point out two counterexamples, being Entombed and Time of Conflict. Both David Greenwood and Jason Allen have been supporting the heck out of their respective new titles. There was a period for Entombed where we had six releases within 7 days to try and

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-27 Thread Lisa Hayes
And what sighted developer works eight to ten years on one game, that market would fall apart if that were the case. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-27 Thread Lisa Hayes
so the heck would I. I've got ideas, but no programming knowledge. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 12:12 PM Subject: Re:

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-27 Thread dark
Hi Yohandi, firstly, I will point out that many games actually do do the expantion bit your talking about. Entombed, rail racer, sound rts, che's card games topspeed, all have lots of expandable content, through user created stuff, --- in fact Ithink this is really going to take off when

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-27 Thread dark
While I appreciate your frustration, I think your assessment that no developement is being done is, well just plane wrong. Even in the five years that I've been playing audio games, I've noticed a change, larger and more complex games, games with online competition, and games with user

Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.

2010-05-27 Thread dark
Again though, this is why user tools to create stuff in games help, sinse you can do it without learning programming. Thus, while I personally have decided programming pluss a phd is a bad combination, I am looking forward to trying out the entombed Editer very much. Beware the grue! Dark.