Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user
Since version 4.1 android's accessibility api is quite up to standard. Unaccessible apps are mostly do to image buttons without descriptions or custom components, the same problems as ios. Android's greatest problem is that people think of it as it was before 4.0. On 11 Jan 2013 20:09, Dakotah Rickard dakotah.rick...@gmail.com wrote: I think that one of the biggest problems that I've heard about, but not experienced, is that the Android Accessibility app is less flexible in what it works with than is Voiceover. What I mean is that I don't know how many Google Store apps will work with the accessibility suite, because I've never used it, but that could be an issue. What's the use of being able to develop apps or find plenty of good ones if you can't use any of them with your accessibility suite? Signed: Dakotah Rickard On 1/7/13, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Ben, Either you are mistaken about the cost or you guys in the U.K. are getting seriously ripped off, but Talkback is a free and open source app. As I said in a prior post my wife has it on her Galaxy S3, and someone at Verison demonstrated a couple newer Android phones with Jellybean on them and in neither case would I have to pay for Talkback. Its a free download from Google if it doesn't come on your phone already. So I think you guys in the U.K. are seriously getting screwed if you are getting charged for Talkback. :D On 1/7/13, Ben gamehead...@aol.co.uk wrote: I have to say I disagree about talkback tom. I looked into this a while back and over here at least it seems you have to shell out an extra 150 dollars just for talkback... --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user
And I'll honestly be the first to admit that my information comes from handling my friend's somewhat out-of-date phone plus some googling. I don't keep up with what's going on, day to day, and I'd probably bash my head against the wall if I signed up for another high-traffic mailing list about anything, so I'm honestly out of the loop, but this friend I mension, he is fairly in the loop, and he is still rather skeptical of the Google approach to accessibility. Also, as I mensioned in an earlier message, the fact that Google didn't take the time to make their Apple APps accessible speaks to me about their priorities in the matter. Accessibility was, at one point, a relatively hidden concept that gave the deaf some captions and the lightly visually deficient high contrast display settings. That there are two mainstream companies which include accessibility, by default, in their devices and operating systems is an amazing and wonderful trend. Obviously, Microsoft is on the old trail, as inaccessible as a silent film, but when I compare the hastles of getting mobile Speak on my old Windows Mobile phones, great devices, really, but when I compare the hastles then with what we can do now, I'm very impressed. I don't mean to complain about Google, even if I come down on them harshly. I think that they are making strides in accessibility, and Apple are also taking large steps. The only think that makes me go for Apple is the particular form and priority of accessibility. Either a newer Android phone running Jellybean or an iDevice would be a good choice. It's up to the chooser to make that choice. Honestly, in closing, I feel that this topic, while helpful and interesting, has gotten a bit long and is running in circles. The simple truth is that we've said, I think, all that can be said. I'm not a moderator, but I would ask that, unless there is pertinent information to give or a particular resolution we've helped someone reach, that there be few additional threads under this topic. It is, after all, only related to the purpose of this list in an indirect fashion at this point, though the original intent was quite reasonable and laudible. Signed: Dakotah Rickard On 1/11/13, Rynhardt Kruger rynkru...@gmail.com wrote: Since version 4.1 android's accessibility api is quite up to standard. Unaccessible apps are mostly do to image buttons without descriptions or custom components, the same problems as ios. Android's greatest problem is that people think of it as it was before 4.0. On 11 Jan 2013 20:09, Dakotah Rickard dakotah.rick...@gmail.com wrote: I think that one of the biggest problems that I've heard about, but not experienced, is that the Android Accessibility app is less flexible in what it works with than is Voiceover. What I mean is that I don't know how many Google Store apps will work with the accessibility suite, because I've never used it, but that could be an issue. What's the use of being able to develop apps or find plenty of good ones if you can't use any of them with your accessibility suite? Signed: Dakotah Rickard On 1/7/13, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Ben, Either you are mistaken about the cost or you guys in the U.K. are getting seriously ripped off, but Talkback is a free and open source app. As I said in a prior post my wife has it on her Galaxy S3, and someone at Verison demonstrated a couple newer Android phones with Jellybean on them and in neither case would I have to pay for Talkback. Its a free download from Google if it doesn't come on your phone already. So I think you guys in the U.K. are seriously getting screwed if you are getting charged for Talkback. :D On 1/7/13, Ben gamehead...@aol.co.uk wrote: I have to say I disagree about talkback tom. I looked into this a while back and over here at least it seems you have to shell out an extra 150 dollars just for talkback... --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __
Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user
I have to say I disagree about talkback tom. I looked into this a while back and over here at least it seems you have to shell out an extra 150 dollars just for talkback... -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 07 January 2013 04:34 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user Hi Charles, Good point, but it doesn't really cost you anything extra to get an Android phone running Talkback either. The Android phones my wife and I looked at tonight running Jellybean had Talk back on them, and all I needed help with was setting up Talkback so it doesn't cost anything extra to get an accessible Android phone. However, the one key setup of the accessibility on an iPhone is definitely a plus in its favor to consider. On 1/6/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Another thing about the iPhones is that they will work for a visually impaired person right out of the box by quickly pressing one button 3 times in succession. The built-in screen reader, called Voice-Over, is now active. And here's a very, very, very important factor: The cost of this fully accessible device is the same whether you are sighted or totally blind. This is another reason that I am an iPhone fan; accessibility at the same price as for the sighted. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/6013 - Release Date: 01/06/13 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user
No. I think you are talking about mobile accessibility from code factory. Talkback is free and open source. Btw, the eyes-free google groupe is a good source of blindness related android information. http://groups.google.com/eyes-free On 7 Jan 2013 10:41, Ben gamehead...@aol.co.uk wrote: I have to say I disagree about talkback tom. I looked into this a while back and over here at least it seems you have to shell out an extra 150 dollars just for talkback... -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 07 January 2013 04:34 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user Hi Charles, Good point, but it doesn't really cost you anything extra to get an Android phone running Talkback either. The Android phones my wife and I looked at tonight running Jellybean had Talk back on them, and all I needed help with was setting up Talkback so it doesn't cost anything extra to get an accessible Android phone. However, the one key setup of the accessibility on an iPhone is definitely a plus in its favor to consider. On 1/6/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Another thing about the iPhones is that they will work for a visually impaired person right out of the box by quickly pressing one button 3 times in succession. The built-in screen reader, called Voice-Over, is now active. And here's a very, very, very important factor: The cost of this fully accessible device is the same whether you are sighted or totally blind. This is another reason that I am an iPhone fan; accessibility at the same price as for the sighted. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/6013 - Release Date: 01/06/13 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user
Try this url instead. http://groups.google.com/group/eyes-free On 7 Jan 2013 10:58, Rynhardt Kruger rynkru...@gmail.com wrote: No. I think you are talking about mobile accessibility from code factory. Talkback is free and open source. Btw, the eyes-free google groupe is a good source of blindness related android information. http://groups.google.com/eyes-free On 7 Jan 2013 10:41, Ben gamehead...@aol.co.uk wrote: I have to say I disagree about talkback tom. I looked into this a while back and over here at least it seems you have to shell out an extra 150 dollars just for talkback... -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 07 January 2013 04:34 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user Hi Charles, Good point, but it doesn't really cost you anything extra to get an Android phone running Talkback either. The Android phones my wife and I looked at tonight running Jellybean had Talk back on them, and all I needed help with was setting up Talkback so it doesn't cost anything extra to get an accessible Android phone. However, the one key setup of the accessibility on an iPhone is definitely a plus in its favor to consider. On 1/6/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Another thing about the iPhones is that they will work for a visually impaired person right out of the box by quickly pressing one button 3 times in succession. The built-in screen reader, called Voice-Over, is now active. And here's a very, very, very important factor: The cost of this fully accessible device is the same whether you are sighted or totally blind. This is another reason that I am an iPhone fan; accessibility at the same price as for the sighted. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/6013 - Release Date: 01/06/13 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user
Talkback is free and always has ben free. There is a app that is suppose to help teach you talkback, but it is similar to what already comes on the phone and that costs. But see that is more people saying you have to buy our teaching app to learn your device or you won't know what to do. The android list called it trash and meant it falling a close second to anything mobilspeak came up with. At 03:38 AM 1/7/2013, you wrote: I have to say I disagree about talkback tom. I looked into this a while back and over here at least it seems you have to shell out an extra 150 dollars just for talkback... -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 07 January 2013 04:34 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user Hi Charles, Good point, but it doesn't really cost you anything extra to get an Android phone running Talkback either. The Android phones my wife and I looked at tonight running Jellybean had Talk back on them, and all I needed help with was setting up Talkback so it doesn't cost anything extra to get an accessible Android phone. However, the one key setup of the accessibility on an iPhone is definitely a plus in its favor to consider. On 1/6/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Another thing about the iPhones is that they will work for a visually impaired person right out of the box by quickly pressing one button 3 times in succession. The built-in screen reader, called Voice-Over, is now active. And here's a very, very, very important factor: The cost of this fully accessible device is the same whether you are sighted or totally blind. This is another reason that I am an iPhone fan; accessibility at the same price as for the sighted. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/6013 - Release Date: 01/06/13 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user
My comparison was with current phones and software as of about a year ago, so is not the latest. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 10:26 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user Hi Charles, O.K. I know that many blind users are saying that Apple iOS is better than Google's Droid OS, and that may be true, but I have heard from people who have Nexus 4's that access on Jellybean is almost as good as iOS. So when you say the iPhone is the most accessible have you actually done a direct comparison with a new Droid phone running Jellybean or are basing your opinion against an older moddle like the Samsung Galaxy S3 which is still running Ice Cream Sandwich? I guess what I want to say is that are you speaking from personal experience or basing it on old information etc. I know a lot of iPhone users who have said Apple iOS and VO are much better than Droid OS and Talkback, but when I press them further for details it turns out they tried a phone running an older version of Talkback and Droid OS, or it was one that hasn't had all the accessible apps installed and ended up with a less than perfect experience. So basically I'd like to talk to someone who has personal experience with both phones and has a more or less neutral opinion on the subject rather than just giving me the party line that Apple iPhones are better, and end of discussion. Fact of the matter is I spent a bit of time talking to a Verison rep tonight, got to look at the Droid phones they had in the store, and got to try Jellybean out with Talkback and discovered accessibility was vastly improved over my wife's Samsong Galaxy S3, and based on that personal experience I would personally say a Droid phone running Jellybean is probably a good alternative to Apple iOS for a VI user. Although, my hands on experience is rather limited. So other than the lack of games is there anything major I won't get with a Droid phone that I could get with an Apple iPhone. I want to know if I am going to put out $500 or $600 for a new phone I better get something pretty major in exchange for paying double, almost triple, the cost of a Nexus which I could have for $238. On 1/6/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: The iPhone 5 is slightly larger than the previous iPhones. From my experiences with touch screens, the iPhone is the most accessible and, due to the fact that more apps are accessible as well, we get what we pay for. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user
Hi. This is not correct, Talkback is a free download from the google playstore. I've been using Android for several years and this has always been the case. The only accessibility suite for Android that costs money is Mobile Accessibility and even this is not so true any more as many carriers are now offering it for free at least here in the states. Best regards, Tom -Original Message- From: Ben Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 12:38 AM To: 'Gamers Discussion list' Subject: Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs,as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user I have to say I disagree about talkback tom. I looked into this a while back and over here at least it seems you have to shell out an extra 150 dollars just for talkback... -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 07 January 2013 04:34 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user Hi Charles, Good point, but it doesn't really cost you anything extra to get an Android phone running Talkback either. The Android phones my wife and I looked at tonight running Jellybean had Talk back on them, and all I needed help with was setting up Talkback so it doesn't cost anything extra to get an accessible Android phone. However, the one key setup of the accessibility on an iPhone is definitely a plus in its favor to consider. On 1/6/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Another thing about the iPhones is that they will work for a visually impaired person right out of the box by quickly pressing one button 3 times in succession. The built-in screen reader, called Voice-Over, is now active. And here's a very, very, very important factor: The cost of this fully accessible device is the same whether you are sighted or totally blind. This is another reason that I am an iPhone fan; accessibility at the same price as for the sighted. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/6013 - Release Date: 01/06/13 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user
Hi Dakotah, That all makes sense. The issue of quality control seems to be a double edged sword. On one hand as a developer I am a bit put out by the idea of having to pay money to develop apps and games for the iPhone, but on the other hand as a user I know everything I buy and download for the phone has to meet certain quality standards so that degree of quality control is a plus. On the other hand I don't have to have a big financial investment in developing apps and games for Android, but that also means anything I download won't have been tested to insure the same degree of quality control Apple has. So that's not too cool. So it requires some serious consideration before I put out that kind of money for a phone. On 1/7/13, Dakotah Rickard dakotah.rick...@gmail.com wrote: I couldn't agree more with this last post. Honestly, I haven't tried out Jellybean, though I'd like to do so, but when you compare the use of the iPhone by sighted individuals versus blind ones, with the same usage of an Android phone by sighted versus blind people, you find that the iPhone usage ratio is close to a 1:1 setup than the Android ratio. The difficulty is in quality control and accessibility concerns. google released Android as a chance at scooping up market shares. Essentially, it's free to implement, and they don't even really control a lot of content that's out there. this is in comparison to Apple, who released an exclusive device running proprietary software which they wrote, produced, and assembled. Furthermore, anyone who wants to develop for Apple products has to pay for it, and there's an approval process. This is highly different from the Google Android approach. Honestly, the problem I find is that with the iPhone I find plenty of inaccessible apps in the store but no inaccessible apps on the phone, and a good plenty of apps in the store are accessible. With Android phones, the experience I've heard, though it is second-hand from good friends, is that there are certain apps which are designed to be accessible. It is possible to browse the web in limited fashion, explore contacts, calculator, clock functions, and text messages, in a general way, it is similar, if not less than, a phone running, say, Windows Mobile 6.1 or 6.5 and Mobile Speak. Those phones are smartphones, but only technically so. If you want a basic phone, go with Android, because you'll get what you want, a phone with fully functioning address book, dial pad, and the like, but if you want to truly engage the smartness of the smartphone, go for the iDevice, because you'll be getting an experience which more closely parallels the experience had by your sighted colleagues, an experience which doesn't depend on specific apps developed for accessibility but depends on a wide range of apps whose development often encourages accessibility concerns simply by haing to be written that way. Sorry for the slightly rambling nature of this message, and good luck, no matter what your choice turns out to be. Signed: Dakotah Rickard --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user
Hi Ben, Either you are mistaken about the cost or you guys in the U.K. are getting seriously ripped off, but Talkback is a free and open source app. As I said in a prior post my wife has it on her Galaxy S3, and someone at Verison demonstrated a couple newer Android phones with Jellybean on them and in neither case would I have to pay for Talkback. Its a free download from Google if it doesn't come on your phone already. So I think you guys in the U.K. are seriously getting screwed if you are getting charged for Talkback. :D On 1/7/13, Ben gamehead...@aol.co.uk wrote: I have to say I disagree about talkback tom. I looked into this a while back and over here at least it seems you have to shell out an extra 150 dollars just for talkback... --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user
The iPhone 5 is slightly larger than the previous iPhones. From my experiences with touch screens, the iPhone is the most accessible and, due to the fact that more apps are accessible as well, we get what we pay for. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Good iPhone games for Voiceover user Hi Dark, True enough. It all sounds good. The only problem for me is that the Apple iPhone 5 costs more than double the cost of a Google Nexus 4, and one thing I do not like about the iPhone is that the touchscreen is very small. The Nexus 4 has nearly double the room to move your fingers around which I find much more suited to my needs. So while the Apple iPhone seems to be the better option for games an Android solution like the Nexus 4 is the more cost effective solution for the VI user. I've had a bit of experience with my wife's Samsung Galaxy S3, and I find the accessibility on Ice Cream Sandwich acceptable for a VI user for handling the basics of web browsing with Firefox, managing contacts, doing texting, etc. I hear the Nexus 4, which comes with Jellybean 4.2, is even better yet so I'm strongly thinking of going for an Android phone just to save on the initial investment costs of an iPhone. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user
I don't usually chime in on these threads, but as an iPHone user and developer, I wanted to make a few points briefly. If you just want a phone, not a smart phone, then an Android phone might be the more cost effective option…but if you want to use your phone…as most people do…as a smart phone, then an Android phone is a terrible solution, at present, for a visually impaired person. The iPhone has a far greater number of higher quality apps with accessibility, and you will get far more out of your phone than you can hope to do so, at least at present, with the half-baked access available for Android. This will hopefully change in the future, but at present access on Android phone's cannot hold a candle to the iPhone. Also, the iPhone 5, as Charles pointed out, has a larger screen, but cost-wise, you also have the options of the iPhone 4S for $99, or the iPhone 4 for free with a two year contract in the US and many other countries. Both of those devices are excellent, especially for the price. Accessibility aside, compatibility across different Android devices is sketchy at best, and the Android marketplace is rattled with malware that one must contend with. Also, most Android phones can not be updated to the latest software. Compare this to the iPhone 3GS, released with VoiceOver in 2009, which can run iOS 6, the current version of the operating system. I don't believe there are *any* Android phones released in 2009 that can run Jelly Bean. Your cost-effectiveness goes out the window if you want to stay current with the software. You'll be needing a new phone every few months to a year. Hopefully, in time, these problem areas, including accessibility, will be ironed out on Android, but it is unlikely to be for the foreseeable future. The fact that Android is a choice at all is good. Competition is always a good thing, but I think that there are a lot of factors to consider, especially as visually impaired users, here. Just my two cents. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Good iPhone games for Voiceover user Hi Dark, True enough. It all sounds good. The only problem for me is that the Apple iPhone 5 costs more than double the cost of a Google Nexus 4, and one thing I do not like about the iPhone is that the touchscreen is very small. The Nexus 4 has nearly double the room to move your fingers around which I find much more suited to my needs. So while the Apple iPhone seems to be the better option for games an Android solution like the Nexus 4 is the more cost effective solution for the VI user. I've had a bit of experience with my wife's Samsung Galaxy S3, and I find the accessibility on Ice Cream Sandwich acceptable for a VI user for handling the basics of web browsing with Firefox, managing contacts, doing texting, etc. I hear the Nexus 4, which comes with Jellybean 4.2, is even better yet so I'm strongly thinking of going for an Android phone just to save on the initial investment costs of an iPhone. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user
Agree with this message. And with the navigation features you have on your iphone, it isn't technically even necessary to use the entire screen. I can move to items, click on them by simply moving my fingers left and right and doing double tapping. But Thomas has a point... androids are definitely cost-effective. Just depends on what you want in the end. - Original Message - From: Draconis Entertainment gene...@draconisentertainment.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs,as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user I don't usually chime in on these threads, but as an iPHone user and developer, I wanted to make a few points briefly. If you just want a phone, not a smart phone, then an Android phone might be the more cost effective option…but if you want to use your phone…as most people do…as a smart phone, then an Android phone is a terrible solution, at present, for a visually impaired person. The iPhone has a far greater number of higher quality apps with accessibility, and you will get far more out of your phone than you can hope to do so, at least at present, with the half-baked access available for Android. This will hopefully change in the future, but at present access on Android phone's cannot hold a candle to the iPhone. Also, the iPhone 5, as Charles pointed out, has a larger screen, but cost-wise, you also have the options of the iPhone 4S for $99, or the iPhone 4 for free with a two year contract in the US and many other countries. Both of those devices are excellent, especially for the price. Accessibility aside, compatibility across different Android devices is sketchy at best, and the Android marketplace is rattled with malware that one must contend with. Also, most Android phones can not be updated to the latest software. Compare this to the iPhone 3GS, released with VoiceOver in 2009, which can run iOS 6, the current version of the operating system. I don't believe there are *any* Android phones released in 2009 that can run Jelly Bean. Your cost-effectiveness goes out the window if you want to stay current with the software. You'll be needing a new phone every few months to a year. Hopefully, in time, these problem areas, including accessibility, will be ironed out on Android, but it is unlikely to be for the foreseeable future. The fact that Android is a choice at all is good. Competition is always a good thing, but I think that there are a lot of factors to consider, especially as visually impaired users, here. Just my two cents. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user
Another thing about the iPhones is that they will work for a visually impaired person right out of the box by quickly pressing one button 3 times in succession. The built-in screen reader, called Voice-Over, is now active. And here's a very, very, very important factor: The cost of this fully accessible device is the same whether you are sighted or totally blind. This is another reason that I am an iPhone fan; accessibility at the same price as for the sighted. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Draconis Entertainment gene...@draconisentertainment.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs,as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user I don't usually chime in on these threads, but as an iPHone user and developer, I wanted to make a few points briefly. If you just want a phone, not a smart phone, then an Android phone might be the more cost effective option…but if you want to use your phone…as most people do…as a smart phone, then an Android phone is a terrible solution, at present, for a visually impaired person. The iPhone has a far greater number of higher quality apps with accessibility, and you will get far more out of your phone than you can hope to do so, at least at present, with the half-baked access available for Android. This will hopefully change in the future, but at present access on Android phone's cannot hold a candle to the iPhone. Also, the iPhone 5, as Charles pointed out, has a larger screen, but cost-wise, you also have the options of the iPhone 4S for $99, or the iPhone 4 for free with a two year contract in the US and many other countries. Both of those devices are excellent, especially for the price. Accessibility aside, compatibility across different Android devices is sketchy at best, and the Android marketplace is rattled with malware that one must contend with. Also, most Android phones can not be updated to the latest software. Compare this to the iPhone 3GS, released with VoiceOver in 2009, which can run iOS 6, the current version of the operating system. I don't believe there are *any* Android phones released in 2009 that can run Jelly Bean. Your cost-effectiveness goes out the window if you want to stay current with the software. You'll be needing a new phone every few months to a year. Hopefully, in time, these problem areas, including accessibility, will be ironed out on Android, but it is unlikely to be for the foreseeable future. The fact that Android is a choice at all is good. Competition is always a good thing, but I think that there are a lot of factors to consider, especially as visually impaired users, here. Just my two cents. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Good iPhone games for Voiceover user Hi Dark, True enough. It all sounds good. The only problem for me is that the Apple iPhone 5 costs more than double the cost of a Google Nexus 4, and one thing I do not like about the iPhone is that the touchscreen is very small. The Nexus 4 has nearly double the room to move your fingers around which I find much more suited to my needs. So while the Apple iPhone seems to be the better option for games an Android solution like the Nexus 4 is the more cost effective solution for the VI user. I've had a bit of experience with my wife's Samsung Galaxy S3, and I find the accessibility on Ice Cream Sandwich acceptable for a VI user for handling the basics of web browsing with Firefox, managing contacts, doing texting, etc. I hear the Nexus 4, which comes with Jellybean 4.2, is even better yet so I'm strongly thinking of going for an Android phone just to save on the initial investment costs of an iPhone. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers
Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user
Hi Charles, O.K. I know that many blind users are saying that Apple iOS is better than Google's Droid OS, and that may be true, but I have heard from people who have Nexus 4's that access on Jellybean is almost as good as iOS. So when you say the iPhone is the most accessible have you actually done a direct comparison with a new Droid phone running Jellybean or are basing your opinion against an older moddle like the Samsung Galaxy S3 which is still running Ice Cream Sandwich? I guess what I want to say is that are you speaking from personal experience or basing it on old information etc. I know a lot of iPhone users who have said Apple iOS and VO are much better than Droid OS and Talkback, but when I press them further for details it turns out they tried a phone running an older version of Talkback and Droid OS, or it was one that hasn't had all the accessible apps installed and ended up with a less than perfect experience. So basically I'd like to talk to someone who has personal experience with both phones and has a more or less neutral opinion on the subject rather than just giving me the party line that Apple iPhones are better, and end of discussion. Fact of the matter is I spent a bit of time talking to a Verison rep tonight, got to look at the Droid phones they had in the store, and got to try Jellybean out with Talkback and discovered accessibility was vastly improved over my wife's Samsong Galaxy S3, and based on that personal experience I would personally say a Droid phone running Jellybean is probably a good alternative to Apple iOS for a VI user. Although, my hands on experience is rather limited. So other than the lack of games is there anything major I won't get with a Droid phone that I could get with an Apple iPhone. I want to know if I am going to put out $500 or $600 for a new phone I better get something pretty major in exchange for paying double, almost triple, the cost of a Nexus which I could have for $238. On 1/6/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: The iPhone 5 is slightly larger than the previous iPhones. From my experiences with touch screens, the iPhone is the most accessible and, due to the fact that more apps are accessible as well, we get what we pay for. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user
Hi Charles, Good point, but it doesn't really cost you anything extra to get an Android phone running Talkback either. The Android phones my wife and I looked at tonight running Jellybean had Talk back on them, and all I needed help with was setting up Talkback so it doesn't cost anything extra to get an accessible Android phone. However, the one key setup of the accessibility on an iPhone is definitely a plus in its favor to consider. On 1/6/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Another thing about the iPhones is that they will work for a visually impaired person right out of the box by quickly pressing one button 3 times in succession. The built-in screen reader, called Voice-Over, is now active. And here's a very, very, very important factor: The cost of this fully accessible device is the same whether you are sighted or totally blind. This is another reason that I am an iPhone fan; accessibility at the same price as for the sighted. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user
Hi Josh, Thanks for the post. That is exactly the kind of educated message I wanted to see on this subject as I am about to turn in my old phone for a new one in the next few months and I'm torn between a Android phone or an iPhone. My principle use will be as a phone so it sounds like as a phone an Android phone would be well suited in that regard. However, as you pointed out since I will be forking over cash for the device I want something I can browse the web, read ebooks, listen to mp3s, and perhaps have a few games which means what I want is a smart phone, and in terms of smart phones the iPhone is the best all in one package. On 1/6/13, Draconis Entertainment gene...@draconisentertainment.com wrote: I don't usually chime in on these threads, but as an iPHone user and developer, I wanted to make a few points briefly. If you just want a phone, not a smart phone, then an Android phone might be the more cost effective option…but if you want to use your phone…as most people do…as a smart phone, then an Android phone is a terrible solution, at present, for a visually impaired person. The iPhone has a far greater number of higher quality apps with accessibility, and you will get far more out of your phone than you can hope to do so, at least at present, with the half-baked access available for Android. This will hopefully change in the future, but at present access on Android phone's cannot hold a candle to the iPhone. Also, the iPhone 5, as Charles pointed out, has a larger screen, but cost-wise, you also have the options of the iPhone 4S for $99, or the iPhone 4 for free with a two year contract in the US and many other countries. Both of those devices are excellent, especially for the price. Accessibility aside, compatibility across different Android devices is sketchy at best, and the Android marketplace is rattled with malware that one must contend with. Also, most Android phones can not be updated to the latest software. Compare this to the iPhone 3GS, released with VoiceOver in 2009, which can run iOS 6, the current version of the operating system. I don't believe there are *any* Android phones released in 2009 that can run Jelly Bean. Your cost-effectiveness goes out the window if you want to stay current with the software. You'll be needing a new phone every few months to a year. Hopefully, in time, these problem areas, including accessibility, will be ironed out on Android, but it is unlikely to be for the foreseeable future. The fact that Android is a choice at all is good. Competition is always a good thing, but I think that there are a lot of factors to consider, especially as visually impaired users, here. Just my two cents. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Good iPhone games for Voiceover user Hi Dark, True enough. It all sounds good. The only problem for me is that the Apple iPhone 5 costs more than double the cost of a Google Nexus 4, and one thing I do not like about the iPhone is that the touchscreen is very small. The Nexus 4 has nearly double the room to move your fingers around which I find much more suited to my needs. So while the Apple iPhone seems to be the better option for games an Android solution like the Nexus 4 is the more cost effective solution for the VI user. I've had a bit of experience with my wife's Samsung Galaxy S3, and I find the accessibility on Ice Cream Sandwich acceptable for a VI user for handling the basics of web browsing with Firefox, managing contacts, doing texting, etc. I hear the Nexus 4, which comes with Jellybean 4.2, is even better yet so I'm strongly thinking of going for an Android phone just to save on the initial investment costs of an iPhone. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user
I couldn't agree more with this last post. Honestly, I haven't tried out Jellybean, though I'd like to do so, but when you compare the use of the iPhone by sighted individuals versus blind ones, with the same usage of an Android phone by sighted versus blind people, you find that the iPhone usage ratio is close to a 1:1 setup than the Android ratio. The difficulty is in quality control and accessibility concerns. google released Android as a chance at scooping up market shares. Essentially, it's free to implement, and they don't even really control a lot of content that's out there. this is in comparison to Apple, who released an exclusive device running proprietary software which they wrote, produced, and assembled. Furthermore, anyone who wants to develop for Apple products has to pay for it, and there's an approval process. This is highly different from the Google Android approach. Honestly, the problem I find is that with the iPhone I find plenty of inaccessible apps in the store but no inaccessible apps on the phone, and a good plenty of apps in the store are accessible. With Android phones, the experience I've heard, though it is second-hand from good friends, is that there are certain apps which are designed to be accessible. It is possible to browse the web in limited fashion, explore contacts, calculator, clock functions, and text messages, in a general way, it is similar, if not less than, a phone running, say, Windows Mobile 6.1 or 6.5 and Mobile Speak. Those phones are smartphones, but only technically so. If you want a basic phone, go with Android, because you'll get what you want, a phone with fully functioning address book, dial pad, and the like, but if you want to truly engage the smartness of the smartphone, go for the iDevice, because you'll be getting an experience which more closely parallels the experience had by your sighted colleagues, an experience which doesn't depend on specific apps developed for accessibility but depends on a wide range of apps whose development often encourages accessibility concerns simply by haing to be written that way. Sorry for the slightly rambling nature of this message, and good luck, no matter what your choice turns out to be. Signed: Dakotah Rickard On 1/6/13, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Josh, Thanks for the post. That is exactly the kind of educated message I wanted to see on this subject as I am about to turn in my old phone for a new one in the next few months and I'm torn between a Android phone or an iPhone. My principle use will be as a phone so it sounds like as a phone an Android phone would be well suited in that regard. However, as you pointed out since I will be forking over cash for the device I want something I can browse the web, read ebooks, listen to mp3s, and perhaps have a few games which means what I want is a smart phone, and in terms of smart phones the iPhone is the best all in one package. On 1/6/13, Draconis Entertainment gene...@draconisentertainment.com wrote: I don't usually chime in on these threads, but as an iPHone user and developer, I wanted to make a few points briefly. If you just want a phone, not a smart phone, then an Android phone might be the more cost effective option…but if you want to use your phone…as most people do…as a smart phone, then an Android phone is a terrible solution, at present, for a visually impaired person. The iPhone has a far greater number of higher quality apps with accessibility, and you will get far more out of your phone than you can hope to do so, at least at present, with the half-baked access available for Android. This will hopefully change in the future, but at present access on Android phone's cannot hold a candle to the iPhone. Also, the iPhone 5, as Charles pointed out, has a larger screen, but cost-wise, you also have the options of the iPhone 4S for $99, or the iPhone 4 for free with a two year contract in the US and many other countries. Both of those devices are excellent, especially for the price. Accessibility aside, compatibility across different Android devices is sketchy at best, and the Android marketplace is rattled with malware that one must contend with. Also, most Android phones can not be updated to the latest software. Compare this to the iPhone 3GS, released with VoiceOver in 2009, which can run iOS 6, the current version of the operating system. I don't believe there are *any* Android phones released in 2009 that can run Jelly Bean. Your cost-effectiveness goes out the window if you want to stay current with the software. You'll be needing a new phone every few months to a year. Hopefully, in time, these problem areas, including accessibility, will be ironed out on Android, but it is unlikely to be for the foreseeable future. The fact that Android is a choice at all is good. Competition is always a good thing, but I think that there are a lot of factors to consider,
