Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-24 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Shaun,
First, Mysteries of the Ancients and Montezuma's Revenge are two 
different games. Just because I will release Montezuma's Revenge as 
freeware does not mean MOTA will be abandoned or discontinued. As it 
happens MOTA, (Mysteries of the Ancients,) is currently under active 
development. Like Montezuma's Revenge it will be a side-scroller, a 2D 
platformer game, but it is a drastic shift in story line, action, and 
enemies.


shaun everiss wrote:

so will this be the end of monti/mota or will there still be a side scroler 
type game.
I'd also recomend using something other than sendspace, such as mediafire for 
the file or a perminant place on divshare.
sendspace will get overloaded and tends to be a real pain in the rear.
  




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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-21 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi.
Well, there are quite a number of differences between Montezuma's
Revenge and Mysteries of the Ancients. They are similar in that they
are both side-scrollers, both arcade style games, both treasure
hunting games, but that is where the similarities stop and where the
differences begin.
For one thing when I started work on Mysteries of the Ancients I began
with giving the game an all new storyline, different enemies, and
added some new traps. As I am still working on parts of the storyline
I don't want to say too much hear about it, but I can say it is not in
an Aztec temple as in Montezuma's Revenge. Mysteries of the Ancients
is set in an ancient ruins in Grease.
Instead of enemies like skulls, snakes, and spiders you have some
enemies straight out of Greak mythology such as centaurs, harpies,
skeleton warriors, and perhaps a cyclopes or two.
Like Lara Croft, in the Tomb Raider games, Angela Carter is going to
be an expert with all kinds of weapons. Throughout the game you will
be able to find and use all kinds of weapons such as: a Glock 19
pistol, a Smith  Wesson 357 Magnum, an HK MP5, a Mossberg 500 series
shotgun, a sword, a bow and arrow, and a leather whip. Obviously, the
weapons alone is a huge difference from Montezuma's Revenge.
Another major difference is that Mysteries of the Ancients is only the
first game in a series of games that are going to be marketed under
the Tomb Hunter trademark. In addition to the games I plan to llaunch
a series of short stories or books that continues the adventures of
Angela Carter. Like my very own Tomb Raider series without stepping on
Edos Interactive's big toes.
Since this is going to be an entire series I'm going to have to add a
much more detailed storyline, main characters, some connection between
every game/story, and that also is a huge difference. In my experience
people are more interested in games if they are familiar with the
characters, story, and enjoy the series as a whole.
For example, take Star Trek, Star Wars, Harry Potter, etc. People
enjoyed the movies, books, etc. As soon as the game companies saw the
success of the movies and books they immediately released some games,
and the games were amung there top sellers.
Now, I am not saying I am a great writer and that I can create
anything as great as Star Trek, Star Wars, Harry Potter, etc. However,
I can provide some background, some fiction, etc that makes it more
than a game. Add the what next to the story, or gives you the history
how Angela ended up in this ancient ruins doing what she is doing.
As for a time limit Sendspace only keeps the files around for 7 days
for a standard user. So once I release the final beta of Montezuma's
Revenge everyone will have exactly 7 days to get it, and then it is
ancient history. So that will be that.
Cheers.

Valiant wrote:
Hi.
If you were to go ahead and release MR as open source or something like
that, I'm wondering if new potential buyers would snag that instead of
buying MTA. They are somewhat similar I do believe. I'm just thinking you
should make profit off of this sometime. I just thought of that and wanted
to mention it. Maybe the limited time thing would work.
 Like 3 days, then it's gone, or something.

Message -

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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-20 Thread Valiant8086

Hi.
If you were to go ahead and release MR as open source or something like 
that, I'm wondering if new potential buyers would snag that instead of 
buying MTA. They are somewhat similar I do believe. I'm just thinking you 
should make profit off of this sometime. I just thought of that and wanted 
to mention it. Maybe the limited time thing would work. Like 3 days, then 
it's gone, or something.
- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Charles Rivard [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Gamers Discussion list 
gamers@audyssey.org

Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 12:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



Hi Charles,
That's correct. Everyone who paid for Montezuma's Revenge can still play 
all the betas that were released up until I had to pull it down off of my 
web sight. So they didn't exactly wind up with 0. I have not, and will 
never, ask anyone to delete their betas as they paid for them.
As for Dark's suggestion of mixing the old and new game I won't do 
that,but I have thought about releasing Montezuma's Revenge as open source 
or shareware at some point. Either that or I could complete the beta, and 
upload it to sendspace for a limited time to let people grab it before it 
is gone for good.



Charles Rivard wrote:
I believe you can still play the demos if you have them unless Tom 
requested that we delete them.  If he did request it, I will do so.  They 
are fun to play..


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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-17 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi,
Lol! That is a good one. That sounds like a great idea for a game. 
Battling sewer rats, toxic mutants, and other nasty creatures while 
slogging your way through crap up to your knees trying to make it back 
to the surface. Oh, and do keep and eye, or an ear, out for falling 
brown bombs as someone flushes the toilets from the world above.


Charles Rivard wrote:
Or play a video game in which you must jump over bowls of, um, stuff, 
and if you don't make it, you go with the flow when the handle on the 
big tank is pulled by the evil enemy.  Then, you travel down into the 
sewer whether you want to or not, and must work your way back to the 
surface, battling huge reptilian creatures that became huge from toxic 
waste poured into the system by big businesses in an effort to save 
money on the cost of waste disposal. Of course, it is dark down there, 
and you must rely on sound to find your way.


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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-17 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Shaun,
As for the Monte beta I will be posting it on sendspace as soon as I get 
around to doing a couple of miner edits, make a new setup for it, and 
then upload it. Right now I am tied up with other projects at the moment.
As for Raceway I'll certainly be putting out a public beta as soon as I 
can get the time to work on it. I've been bogged down working on MOTA 
which has been my main priority of late.


shaun everiss wrote:

aah so how will we get this then.
Yeah raceway will not be up to scratch but you will work on it when money 
permits.
I'll look at it maybe when you get a beta out or something, it maybe that all 
that is needed is some voices, I don't have the stuff to edit things but I can 
make basic files of voices such as comentory and things.
I have some game libs I can borrow some things from.
  



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-17 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Tyler,
What programming languages are you sskilled in. Raceway was originally 
written in VB 6 by James North, but I have been slowly porting it over 
to C# .NET 2008. Although, my actual version is going to be quite a bit 
different than his design.
Although, programming isn't really were I need the help at this point. 
What I really need is good sound effects, music, and other things that 
will make it sound good. I can have a great engine, that runs great, but 
if the sounds are crap the game isn't up to my personal specs.



Tyler Littlefield wrote:

Tom,
I'd be willing to help out, if your using a language I know, for 
non-proffit. I'd be willing to do it both for the experience, and the 
possibility of using you as a reference later on when I apply for a 
job in the field.



Thanks,



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-17 Thread shaun everiss
so will this be the end of monti/mota or will there still be a side scroler 
type game.
I'd also recomend using something other than sendspace, such as mediafire for 
the file or a perminant place on divshare.
sendspace will get overloaded and tends to be a real pain in the rear.
At 07:51 p.m. 17/10/2008, you wrote:
Hi Shaun,
As for the Monte beta I will be posting it on sendspace as soon as I get 
around to doing a couple of miner edits, make a new setup for it, and then 
upload it. Right now I am tied up with other projects at the moment.
As for Raceway I'll certainly be putting out a public beta as soon as I can 
get the time to work on it. I've been bogged down working on MOTA which has 
been my main priority of late.

shaun everiss wrote:
aah so how will we get this then.
Yeah raceway will not be up to scratch but you will work on it when money 
permits.
I'll look at it maybe when you get a beta out or something, it maybe that all 
that is needed is some voices, I don't have the stuff to edit things but I 
can make basic files of voices such as comentory and things.
I have some game libs I can borrow some things from.
  


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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-17 Thread Will Lomas

no they are two separate games

On 17 Oct 2008, at 09:08, shaun everiss wrote:

so will this be the end of monti/mota or will there still be a side  
scroler type game.
I'd also recomend using something other than sendspace, such as  
mediafire for the file or a perminant place on divshare.

sendspace will get overloaded and tends to be a real pain in the rear.
At 07:51 p.m. 17/10/2008, you wrote:

Hi Shaun,
As for the Monte beta I will be posting it on sendspace as soon as  
I get around to doing a couple of miner edits, make a new setup for  
it, and then upload it. Right now I am tied up with other projects  
at the moment.
As for Raceway I'll certainly be putting out a public beta as soon  
as I can get the time to work on it. I've been bogged down working  
on MOTA which has been my main priority of late.


shaun everiss wrote:

aah so how will we get this then.
Yeah raceway will not be up to scratch but you will work on it  
when money permits.
I'll look at it maybe when you get a beta out or something, it  
maybe that all that is needed is some voices, I don't have the  
stuff to edit things but I can make basic files of voices such as  
comentory and things.

I have some game libs I can borrow some things from.




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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-17 Thread shaun everiss
aah ok.
At 09:12 p.m. 17/10/2008, you wrote:
no they are two separate games

On 17 Oct 2008, at 09:08, shaun everiss wrote:

so will this be the end of monti/mota or will there still be a side  
scroler type game.
I'd also recomend using something other than sendspace, such as  
mediafire for the file or a perminant place on divshare.
sendspace will get overloaded and tends to be a real pain in the rear.
At 07:51 p.m. 17/10/2008, you wrote:
Hi Shaun,
As for the Monte beta I will be posting it on sendspace as soon as  
I get around to doing a couple of miner edits, make a new setup for  
it, and then upload it. Right now I am tied up with other projects  
at the moment.
As for Raceway I'll certainly be putting out a public beta as soon  
as I can get the time to work on it. I've been bogged down working  
on MOTA which has been my main priority of late.

shaun everiss wrote:
aah so how will we get this then.
Yeah raceway will not be up to scratch but you will work on it  
when money permits.
I'll look at it maybe when you get a beta out or something, it  
maybe that all that is needed is some voices, I don't have the  
stuff to edit things but I can make basic files of voices such as  
comentory and things.
I have some game libs I can borrow some things from.


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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-17 Thread Tyler Littlefield
I've used c# and c++ extensively in the past, and have experience with 
others, php, AutoIt, etc.


Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: tysdomain-com
Visit for quality software and web design.
skype: st8amnd2005

- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 1:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



Hi Tyler,
What programming languages are you sskilled in. Raceway was originally 
written in VB 6 by James North, but I have been slowly porting it over to 
C# .NET 2008. Although, my actual version is going to be quite a bit 
different than his design.
Although, programming isn't really were I need the help at this point. 
What I really need is good sound effects, music, and other things that 
will make it sound good. I can have a great engine, that runs great, but 
if the sounds are crap the game isn't up to my personal specs.



Tyler Littlefield wrote:

Tom,
I'd be willing to help out, if your using a language I know, for 
non-proffit. I'd be willing to do it both for the experience, and the 
possibility of using you as a reference later on when I apply for a job 
in the field.



Thanks,



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-17 Thread David Standen

Hi Thomas,
 Thank you so much for deciding to do this. I never purchased this game, so 
I'm really looking forward to experiencing it for myself.

David

- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



Hi Will,
Yes, it is possible. Give me a couple of days, and I will upload the last 
version of Montezuma's Revenge to sendspace for those who want it. I've 
just decided since there are a number of requests for the title I'm going 
to remove the registration keys from it, and let everyone play all six 
levels.

Cheers.

Will Lomas wrote: 



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-16 Thread Willem
*chuckle* Now we wouldn't want that, as it would  set back the release date 
even more.


Seriously though, it's a good idea to release the older monti as freeware as 
I rather liked playing it.


Also if you do it, you will give people something to play with while they 
wait for Mysteries of the ancients.
- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 2:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



Hi,
Yeah, I know. Well, i probably won't release it as open source, but what I 
can do since the demand is so high is release the game as freeware so 
people will stop hastling me about it. I'm so sick of Montezuma's Revenge 
that it is going to give me a case of Montezuma's Revenge. Grin.



Michael Forzano wrote:
Open source man. That'd be great! And again dude, you're a great 
developer,

I really think this whole Monty and Raceway thing is a bunch of people
complaining, and demanding. Why give in. Just take your time and make it 
the

best game possible.

Mike




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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-16 Thread Michael Forzano
Well Tom, I think that's understandable, I just wasn't sure of the whole
story. And Tyler, I think that was uncalled for.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Thomas Ward
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 7:59 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

Hi Michael,
That's right. I did change the name to Montezuma's Return, but unknown 
to me Utopia Software had created a game with a similar title in the mid 
90's which was a sequel to Montezuma's Revenge. In the end they 
requested that I remove the game from my web site, and I did so in 
keeping with U.S. copyright law.
The second reason I took the beta down is I discovered a huge, huge, 
huge bug in the engine that couldn't be fixed by editing a few lines, 
changing the name, and reposting the game. As a result I have been 
forced to rewrite a good majority of the engine plus all of the levels 
to correct the problem. I figured while I am involved in such an 
extensive rewrite I should make the levels different, make other changes 
here and there, etc to insure any copyright issues never come up again.
As far as not getting pushed around and so on that is easy to say when 
you aren't the one being threatened with the suit. Legally enforceble or 
not I took it seriously, and chose to do the right thing by removing 
anything ddealing with their copyrights.
As far as the new title, Mysteries of the Ancients, goes I think it will 
come out pretty well in the end. It features my main character Angela 
Carter, and it will still have a definite treasure hunting feel. It will 
still be a 2D side-scroller, there will be lava pits, fire pits, 
skeleton warriors, healing potions, and so on. Kind of a cross between 
Montezuma's Revenge, which everyone paid for, and Tomb Raider Prophecy 
which is one of my favorite side-scrollers for the Gameboy Advanced.




Michael Forzano wrote:
 I don't understand how making an audio version of Montezuma's Revenge is
 infringement of copyright. If the name is, why can't you just change it?
 Which you did. I sorta lost track after that, I thought it became
 Montezuma's Return because of copyright issues, so why couldn't you
release
 it. And also the levels aren't exactly the same due to the nature of the
 audiogame version...So Thomas, I don't think you should let people push
you
 around like this, in my opinion, it isn't a valid lawsuit anyway. And
also,
 this game is being made so us blind people can play, not for the purposes
of
 copying.

 Thanks,
 Mike
   


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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-16 Thread Tyler Littlefield

great, take it up with an admin.
- Original Message - 
From: Michael Forzano [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



Well Tom, I think that's understandable, I just wasn't sure of the whole
story. And Tyler, I think that was uncalled for.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Thomas Ward
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 7:59 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

Hi Michael,
That's right. I did change the name to Montezuma's Return, but unknown
to me Utopia Software had created a game with a similar title in the mid
90's which was a sequel to Montezuma's Revenge. In the end they
requested that I remove the game from my web site, and I did so in
keeping with U.S. copyright law.
The second reason I took the beta down is I discovered a huge, huge,
huge bug in the engine that couldn't be fixed by editing a few lines,
changing the name, and reposting the game. As a result I have been
forced to rewrite a good majority of the engine plus all of the levels
to correct the problem. I figured while I am involved in such an
extensive rewrite I should make the levels different, make other changes
here and there, etc to insure any copyright issues never come up again.
As far as not getting pushed around and so on that is easy to say when
you aren't the one being threatened with the suit. Legally enforceble or
not I took it seriously, and chose to do the right thing by removing
anything ddealing with their copyrights.
As far as the new title, Mysteries of the Ancients, goes I think it will
come out pretty well in the end. It features my main character Angela
Carter, and it will still have a definite treasure hunting feel. It will
still be a 2D side-scroller, there will be lava pits, fire pits,
skeleton warriors, healing potions, and so on. Kind of a cross between
Montezuma's Revenge, which everyone paid for, and Tomb Raider Prophecy
which is one of my favorite side-scrollers for the Gameboy Advanced.




Michael Forzano wrote:

I don't understand how making an audio version of Montezuma's Revenge is
infringement of copyright. If the name is, why can't you just change it?
Which you did. I sorta lost track after that, I thought it became
Montezuma's Return because of copyright issues, so why couldn't you

release

it. And also the levels aren't exactly the same due to the nature of the
audiogame version...So Thomas, I don't think you should let people push

you

around like this, in my opinion, it isn't a valid lawsuit anyway. And

also,

this game is being made so us blind people can play, not for the purposes

of

copying.

Thanks,
Mike




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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-16 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Yohandy,
Yes and no. You need to keep in mind here that most large corporations 
do have hired legal staffs that work for them for full time or are kept 
on a retainer if they are needed. So in that sense it is not that 
expensive for a company to have their lawyers write up a cease and 
desist order , and file it with a court somewhere. A judge will read it, 
sign it, and the person in question will legally be forced to stop 
production at that point. If the person chooses not to follow the court 
order he or she may face fines for violating the court order. So if they 
chose that route it wouldn't cost them very much to protect their 
copyright interests.
In the short term it might not be all that reasonable to go after a 
blind guy with just enough money to get by, but long term it pays off 
for them. If they deal swiftly with guys like me, and then when a bigger 
company comes a long they know they are going to get sued or something 
if they try something similar. Plus going after a small guy like me 
shows others out there don't mess with us because we will enforce our 
copyrights to the letter. It is more for show then anything else.
As far as copyright law itself goes it isn't always fair, because the 
fair use provision in the law doesn't go far enough to cover things like 
accessibility, fan fiction, or other reasons we might be interested in 
using a copyright. It doesn't really matter if game company x makes a 
killer game and it is unaccessible. If you clone it, sell it, and 
release it to the blind you can get sued just because you didn't ask for 
the company's signed permission first. In some cases like my attempts to 
get permission from Lucasfilm for the rights for Star wars they wouldn't 
let me have it anyway. They can refuse my attempts to make an accessible 
Star Wars game, because there is no law stating they have to make 
accessible video games, nor do they have to let a guy like me create 
one. Unfortunately the copyright law is on their side, because they 
retain all rights to trade marks, characters, places, and anything to do 
with Star Wars and can decide what they want to do with it. It makes no 
difference in the law that none of their games are accessible.
So that is where we run into issues with Montezuma's Revenge. The 
companies that currently own the copyrights never have to make another 
Montezuma's Revenge game as long as they exist, because the hold all the 
copyrights. It makes no difference to them if it is accessible, not 
accessible, and it would be fair to let me make one and sell it. Fact is 
the law is on their side, and they have the right to tell me, No, so 
sorry, but you aren't aloud to make a Montezuma's Revenge clone and sell 
it.




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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-16 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi,
Well, keep in mind Raceway is being written on a shuestring budget so 
the first release might be not quite fully up to sighted game 
standards.  A lot of it is going to depend on how much I can afford to 
buy and add to the game. I've run into a similar issue with MOTA. I have 
run out of operating capital, but there are sound effects and music I 
really want to buy and add to the game.
As for releasing Monte as freeware I will, but it is with the 
understanding I'm completely done with that game. No bug fixes, updates, 
and I'm certainly not leaving it on my web site for public download.


shaun everiss wrote:

yeah maybe you should release that thing as freeware.
I am looking forward to the raceway title though, I mean this is where we are 
far behind.
All the sighties have it over us.
Ok we have mach1 topspeed and railracer but these games are really crap 
compaired to the ones our sighted cousins have.
I mean full rock tracks, crashes, actual car noises, radio comentary, radio 
station things and a load of other things.
  



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-16 Thread Tyler Littlefield

Tom,
I'd be willing to help out, if your using a language I know, for 
non-proffit. I'd be willing to do it both for the experience, and the 
possibility of using you as a reference later on when I apply for a job in 
the field.



Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: tysdomain-com
Visit for quality software and web design.
skype: st8amnd2005

- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



Hi,
Well, keep in mind Raceway is being written on a shuestring budget so the 
first release might be not quite fully up to sighted game standards.  A 
lot of it is going to depend on how much I can afford to buy and add to 
the game. I've run into a similar issue with MOTA. I have run out of 
operating capital, but there are sound effects and music I really want to 
buy and add to the game.
As for releasing Monte as freeware I will, but it is with the 
understanding I'm completely done with that game. No bug fixes, updates, 
and I'm certainly not leaving it on my web site for public download.


shaun everiss wrote:

yeah maybe you should release that thing as freeware.
I am looking forward to the raceway title though, I mean this is where we 
are far behind.

All the sighties have it over us.
Ok we have mach1 topspeed and railracer but these games are really crap 
compaired to the ones our sighted cousins have.
I mean full rock tracks, crashes, actual car noises, radio comentary, 
radio station things and a load of other things.





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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-16 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Willem,
Grin. Yeah, kind of hard to be writing audio games while sitting on the 
pot with a bad case of Montezuma's Revenge. Although, sounds like a new 
idea for a modern bath room upgrade.
I can see it now. Someday in the future you might walk into a stall and 
they will have a little fold down computer or little hand held PDA in 
there so you can read rss feeds, your e-mail, write business reports, 
etc all while you are using the John. Either that or you can call up a 
game of Blackjack, Free Cell, or Yatzi to play while you are taking care 
of personal business. Sounds like a cool idea to me. Lol!



Willem wrote:
*chuckle* Now we wouldn't want that, as it would  set back the release 
date even more.


Seriously though, it's a good idea to release the older monti as 
freeware as I rather liked playing it.


Also if you do it, you will give people something to play with while 
they wait for Mysteries of the ancients.



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-16 Thread shaun everiss
aah so how will we get this then.
Yeah raceway will not be up to scratch but you will work on it when money 
permits.
I'll look at it maybe when you get a beta out or something, it maybe that all 
that is needed is some voices, I don't have the stuff to edit things but I can 
make basic files of voices such as comentory and things.
I have some game libs I can borrow some things from.
At 03:00 p.m. 17/10/2008, you wrote:
Hi,
Well, keep in mind Raceway is being written on a shuestring budget so the 
first release might be not quite fully up to sighted game standards.  A lot of 
it is going to depend on how much I can afford to buy and add to the game. 
I've run into a similar issue with MOTA. I have run out of operating capital, 
but there are sound effects and music I really want to buy and add to the game.
As for releasing Monte as freeware I will, but it is with the understanding 
I'm completely done with that game. No bug fixes, updates, and I'm certainly 
not leaving it on my web site for public download.

shaun everiss wrote:
yeah maybe you should release that thing as freeware.
I am looking forward to the raceway title though, I mean this is where we are 
far behind.
All the sighties have it over us.
Ok we have mach1 topspeed and railracer but these games are really crap 
compaired to the ones our sighted cousins have.
I mean full rock tracks, crashes, actual car noises, radio comentary, radio 
station things and a load of other things.
  


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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-16 Thread Charles Rivard
Or play a video game in which you must jump over bowls of, um, stuff, and if 
you don't make it, you go with the flow when the handle on the big tank is 
pulled by the evil enemy.  Then, you travel down into the sewer whether you 
want to or not, and must work your way back to the surface, battling huge 
reptilian creatures that became huge from toxic waste poured into the system 
by big businesses in an effort to save money on the cost of waste disposal. 
Of course, it is dark down there, and you must rely on sound to find your 
way.


---
Pretty is as pretty does.
- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



Hi Willem,
Grin. Yeah, kind of hard to be writing audio games while sitting on the 
pot with a bad case of Montezuma's Revenge. Although, sounds like a new 
idea for a modern bath room upgrade.
I can see it now. Someday in the future you might walk into a stall and 
they will have a little fold down computer or little hand held PDA in 
there so you can read rss feeds, your e-mail, write business reports, etc 
all while you are using the John. Either that or you can call up a game of 
Blackjack, Free Cell, or Yatzi to play while you are taking care of 
personal business. Sounds like a cool idea to me. Lol!



Willem wrote:
*chuckle* Now we wouldn't want that, as it would  set back the release 
date even more.


Seriously though, it's a good idea to release the older monti as freeware 
as I rather liked playing it.


Also if you do it, you will give people something to play with while they 
wait for Mysteries of the ancients.




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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-15 Thread Michael Forzano
I don't understand how making an audio version of Montezuma's Revenge is
infringement of copyright. If the name is, why can't you just change it?
Which you did. I sorta lost track after that, I thought it became
Montezuma's Return because of copyright issues, so why couldn't you release
it. And also the levels aren't exactly the same due to the nature of the
audiogame version...So Thomas, I don't think you should let people push you
around like this, in my opinion, it isn't a valid lawsuit anyway. And also,
this game is being made so us blind people can play, not for the purposes of
copying.

Thanks,
Mike

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Thomas Ward
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:41 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

Hi,
Yeah, taking over Raceway and Montezuma's Revenge has resulted in a lot 
of personal grief and misery for me. I've had my reputation marred, I've 
been verbally insulted, I've been called a thief, I've stayed up late 
trying to get this or that done,  and it has just been one bad thing 
after another. To ice the cake, so to speak, my apartment management had 
us out of our apartment for four months, and unfortunately I didn't have 
everything with me to work on the games. As a result I've gotten the 
blame for that too, because people want to know why the game wasn't 
finished asap.
However, on the bright side of this I really think I can pull a couple 
of good games out of the hat. No MOTA won't exactly be Montezuma's 
Revenge, but it still will be a side scroller, will be a treasure 
hunting adventure, have fire pits to jump over, avoid spike traps, lots 
of baddies to fight, and should at least give the person the feeling of 
a NES or Atari game.



Michael Feir wrote:
 In my judgement, Tom has found the most fair approach in this tricky 
 situation. It all started out because he wanted to save those of us 
 who had waited ages for James North to finish Raceway and Montezuma's 
 Revenge from the crushing disappointment we faced when he decided to 
 pack it in. That attempted good deed has brought him no end of grief 
 since. Everyone has had to compromise somewhat. We, the customers, 
 won't be getting precisely what we originally paid for. However, Tom 
 is going to give us a new and improved platformer so we'll at long 
 last end up with a good one of those which is fully accessible. I've 
 long felt that this genre would be spectacularly suited to blind 
 people and be helpful to people just getting used to computer games as 
 opposed to a fully 3d adventure. I'm profoundly grateful to Tom for 
 deciding to do this. It wasn't an easy decision for him to reach and I 
 know he has his own dreams he'd rather be working on. Although he has 
 a lot of creative latitude now, I believe he would rather work on 
 fully 3d games. Ultimately, I believe we'll end up with a spectacular 
 platformer as long as we give Tom the patience and good will that he 
 needs and deserves.

 Due to this whole episode, I don't believe we'll see any developer put 
 a game up for pre-ordering again. Too much distrust and damage was 
 done to the whole concept for it to work in this gaming community. It 
 can work for the sighted gaming world because the companies producing 
 their games have the financial backing to handle things if projects go 
 bad on them. For us, we're just too much at the mercy of the personal 
 life circumstances of our developers. That's a sad thing because it 
 could have helped established developers finance better assets such as 
 sound effects and music to put in to their final products. I've just 
 begun working on an accessible game which I believe will take me 
 something like four years to create. I'm engaged to be married in 
 around a year's time to a wonderful woman I've had the good fortune to 
 find. Anticipating tougher economics after we're married, I decided to 
 purchase royalty-free music while I still have my own source of 
 income. That way, she's not going to have to sink any of her income 
 into what is essentially my dream. In total, I've spent a little under 
 $400 on the music. During my last attempt to create a game, I spent 
 around the same on the SFX kit from Sound Ideas. That has around 2 
 sounds I can legally use. Altogether then, I've spent around $800 on 
 my dream of creating an accessible game. It helps a lot that I'm 
 currently single and don't have other financial responsabilities. Most 
 developers aren't in my somewhat unique circumstances. Unless I 
 ultimately succeed in creating the game, I'll never see a dime of that 
 investment.

 What happened to Tom was a stroke of tremendous bad fortune which has 
 had repercussions for everyone connected with accessible games. I 
 believe that it has lowered the sense of trust and solidarity in the 
 community as a whole. It has put everyone more on a business footing

Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-15 Thread Tyler Littlefield
mike, are you going to pay for the lawsuit when he gets hit in the ass with 
it?

great, I thought not.
Second, character names, titles, etc could be patented.

Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
Visit tds for quality software and web design:
http://tysdomain.com
skype: st8amnd127
aim: st8amnd2005
msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message - 
From: Michael Forzano [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



I don't understand how making an audio version of Montezuma's Revenge is
infringement of copyright. If the name is, why can't you just change it?
Which you did. I sorta lost track after that, I thought it became
Montezuma's Return because of copyright issues, so why couldn't you 
release

it. And also the levels aren't exactly the same due to the nature of the
audiogame version...So Thomas, I don't think you should let people push 
you
around like this, in my opinion, it isn't a valid lawsuit anyway. And 
also,
this game is being made so us blind people can play, not for the purposes 
of

copying.

Thanks,
Mike

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Thomas Ward
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:41 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

Hi,
Yeah, taking over Raceway and Montezuma's Revenge has resulted in a lot
of personal grief and misery for me. I've had my reputation marred, I've
been verbally insulted, I've been called a thief, I've stayed up late
trying to get this or that done,  and it has just been one bad thing
after another. To ice the cake, so to speak, my apartment management had
us out of our apartment for four months, and unfortunately I didn't have
everything with me to work on the games. As a result I've gotten the
blame for that too, because people want to know why the game wasn't
finished asap.
However, on the bright side of this I really think I can pull a couple
of good games out of the hat. No MOTA won't exactly be Montezuma's
Revenge, but it still will be a side scroller, will be a treasure
hunting adventure, have fire pits to jump over, avoid spike traps, lots
of baddies to fight, and should at least give the person the feeling of
a NES or Atari game.



Michael Feir wrote:

In my judgement, Tom has found the most fair approach in this tricky
situation. It all started out because he wanted to save those of us
who had waited ages for James North to finish Raceway and Montezuma's
Revenge from the crushing disappointment we faced when he decided to
pack it in. That attempted good deed has brought him no end of grief
since. Everyone has had to compromise somewhat. We, the customers,
won't be getting precisely what we originally paid for. However, Tom
is going to give us a new and improved platformer so we'll at long
last end up with a good one of those which is fully accessible. I've
long felt that this genre would be spectacularly suited to blind
people and be helpful to people just getting used to computer games as
opposed to a fully 3d adventure. I'm profoundly grateful to Tom for
deciding to do this. It wasn't an easy decision for him to reach and I
know he has his own dreams he'd rather be working on. Although he has
a lot of creative latitude now, I believe he would rather work on
fully 3d games. Ultimately, I believe we'll end up with a spectacular
platformer as long as we give Tom the patience and good will that he
needs and deserves.

Due to this whole episode, I don't believe we'll see any developer put
a game up for pre-ordering again. Too much distrust and damage was
done to the whole concept for it to work in this gaming community. It
can work for the sighted gaming world because the companies producing
their games have the financial backing to handle things if projects go
bad on them. For us, we're just too much at the mercy of the personal
life circumstances of our developers. That's a sad thing because it
could have helped established developers finance better assets such as
sound effects and music to put in to their final products. I've just
begun working on an accessible game which I believe will take me
something like four years to create. I'm engaged to be married in
around a year's time to a wonderful woman I've had the good fortune to
find. Anticipating tougher economics after we're married, I decided to
purchase royalty-free music while I still have my own source of
income. That way, she's not going to have to sink any of her income
into what is essentially my dream. In total, I've spent a little under
$400 on the music. During my last attempt to create a game, I spent
around the same on the SFX kit from Sound Ideas. That has around 2
sounds I can legally use. Altogether then, I've spent around $800 on
my dream of creating an accessible game. It helps a lot that I'm
currently single and don't have other financial

Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-15 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Michael,
That's right. I did change the name to Montezuma's Return, but unknown 
to me Utopia Software had created a game with a similar title in the mid 
90's which was a sequel to Montezuma's Revenge. In the end they 
requested that I remove the game from my web site, and I did so in 
keeping with U.S. copyright law.
The second reason I took the beta down is I discovered a huge, huge, 
huge bug in the engine that couldn't be fixed by editing a few lines, 
changing the name, and reposting the game. As a result I have been 
forced to rewrite a good majority of the engine plus all of the levels 
to correct the problem. I figured while I am involved in such an 
extensive rewrite I should make the levels different, make other changes 
here and there, etc to insure any copyright issues never come up again.
As far as not getting pushed around and so on that is easy to say when 
you aren't the one being threatened with the suit. Legally enforceble or 
not I took it seriously, and chose to do the right thing by removing 
anything ddealing with their copyrights.
As far as the new title, Mysteries of the Ancients, goes I think it will 
come out pretty well in the end. It features my main character Angela 
Carter, and it will still have a definite treasure hunting feel. It will 
still be a 2D side-scroller, there will be lava pits, fire pits, 
skeleton warriors, healing potions, and so on. Kind of a cross between 
Montezuma's Revenge, which everyone paid for, and Tomb Raider Prophecy 
which is one of my favorite side-scrollers for the Gameboy Advanced.





Michael Forzano wrote:

I don't understand how making an audio version of Montezuma's Revenge is
infringement of copyright. If the name is, why can't you just change it?
Which you did. I sorta lost track after that, I thought it became
Montezuma's Return because of copyright issues, so why couldn't you release
it. And also the levels aren't exactly the same due to the nature of the
audiogame version...So Thomas, I don't think you should let people push you
around like this, in my opinion, it isn't a valid lawsuit anyway. And also,
this game is being made so us blind people can play, not for the purposes of
copying.

Thanks,
Mike
  



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-15 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi,
Yeah, I know. Well, i probably won't release it as open source, but what 
I can do since the demand is so high is release the game as freeware so 
people will stop hastling me about it. I'm so sick of Montezuma's 
Revenge that it is going to give me a case of Montezuma's Revenge. Grin.



Michael Forzano wrote:

Open source man. That'd be great! And again dude, you're a great developer,
I really think this whole Monty and Raceway thing is a bunch of people
complaining, and demanding. Why give in. Just take your time and make it the
best game possible.

Mike
  



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-15 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Will,
Yes, it is possible. Give me a couple of days, and I will upload the 
last version of Montezuma's Revenge to sendspace for those who want it. 
I've just decided since there are a number of requests for the title I'm 
going to remove the registration keys from it, and let everyone play all 
six levels.

Cheers.

Will Lomas wrote:

can someone be so kind and upload the latests beta for me of monty
I do have a valid legal key to play
is this possible?



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-15 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Yohandy,
Like I said to Will I'll be uploading an updated beta for those who want 
it sometime between now and the weekend. However, keep in mind that the 
Montezuma's Revenge beta, the last beta that was released, is extremely 
buggy and since it is now basically abandonware there won't be any 
patches, updates, or bug fixes forth coming.
As far as releasing the game as freeware that is no protection from a 
lawsuit. Under U.S. copyright law they can still file a lawsuit if they 
feel their copyrights have been violated. Weather or not they would do 
or say anything about it is another matter, but they legally could do it 
if they wanted to. That's why I am changing the name, and also removing 
any thing to do with Montezuma's Revenge from the new side-scroller i am 
writing.



Yohandy wrote:
I personally would love to grab a copy of the newest beta. It's a 
shame that all that hard work was wasted so close to completion. If 
you release it as freeware, they can't sue you, correct? Also, why 
couldn't you simply change the name of the game and release it as 
something else? It's not as if the devs played it, or even know what 
the game contains. all that you'd need to do is remove all montezuma 
references.



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-15 Thread Yohandy
Wouldn't that be a bit dumb on their part though? I mean if you're not 
making any money from it, then obviously they have nothing to gain? Hiring 
lawyers and such can't be cheap for them.


- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



Hi Yohandy,
Like I said to Will I'll be uploading an updated beta for those who want 
it sometime between now and the weekend. However, keep in mind that the 
Montezuma's Revenge beta, the last beta that was released, is extremely 
buggy and since it is now basically abandonware there won't be any 
patches, updates, or bug fixes forth coming.
As far as releasing the game as freeware that is no protection from a 
lawsuit. Under U.S. copyright law they can still file a lawsuit if they 
feel their copyrights have been violated. Weather or not they would do or 
say anything about it is another matter, but they legally could do it if 
they wanted to. That's why I am changing the name, and also removing any 
thing to do with Montezuma's Revenge from the new side-scroller i am 
writing.



Yohandy wrote:
I personally would love to grab a copy of the newest beta. It's a shame 
that all that hard work was wasted so close to completion. If you release 
it as freeware, they can't sue you, correct? Also, why couldn't you 
simply change the name of the game and release it as something else? It's 
not as if the devs played it, or even know what the game contains. all 
that you'd need to do is remove all montezuma references.



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-15 Thread Michael Feir
That's true in the short term. However, copyright law is set up so that 
companies basically can't pick and choose when to defend their copyrighted 
work and when not to. If they fail to take a small independant developer to 
court, they can't then take a large competitor to court for stealing their 
work. That's why Paramount is so vigorous about defending against 
infringement on Star Trek for example. They wouldn't look at it as 
unprofitable in the long term.

Michael Feir
Author of Personal Power:
How Accessible Computers Can Enhance Personal Life For Blind People
2006-2008
www.blind-planet.com/content/personal-power

A Life of Word and Sound
2003-2007
http://www.blind-planet.com/content/life-word-and-sound

Creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine
1996-2004
Check out my blog at:
www.michaelfeir.blogspot.com


- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge


Wouldn't that be a bit dumb on their part though? I mean if you're not 
making any money from it, then obviously they have nothing to gain? Hiring 
lawyers and such can't be cheap for them.


- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



Hi Yohandy,
Like I said to Will I'll be uploading an updated beta for those who want 
it sometime between now and the weekend. However, keep in mind that the 
Montezuma's Revenge beta, the last beta that was released, is extremely 
buggy and since it is now basically abandonware there won't be any 
patches, updates, or bug fixes forth coming.
As far as releasing the game as freeware that is no protection from a 
lawsuit. Under U.S. copyright law they can still file a lawsuit if they 
feel their copyrights have been violated. Weather or not they would do or 
say anything about it is another matter, but they legally could do it if 
they wanted to. That's why I am changing the name, and also removing any 
thing to do with Montezuma's Revenge from the new side-scroller i am 
writing.



Yohandy wrote:
I personally would love to grab a copy of the newest beta. It's a shame 
that all that hard work was wasted so close to completion. If you 
release it as freeware, they can't sue you, correct? Also, why couldn't 
you simply change the name of the game and release it as something else? 
It's not as if the devs played it, or even know what the game contains. 
all that you'd need to do is remove all montezuma references.



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-15 Thread shaun everiss
yeah maybe you should release that thing as freeware.
I am looking forward to the raceway title though, I mean this is where we are 
far behind.
All the sighties have it over us.
Ok we have mach1 topspeed and railracer but these games are really crap 
compaired to the ones our sighted cousins have.
I mean full rock tracks, crashes, actual car noises, radio comentary, radio 
station things and a load of other things.
At 01:08 p.m. 16/10/2008, you wrote:
Hi,
Yeah, I know. Well, i probably won't release it as open source, but what I can 
do since the demand is so high is release the game as freeware so people will 
stop hastling me about it. I'm so sick of Montezuma's Revenge that it is going 
to give me a case of Montezuma's Revenge. Grin.


Michael Forzano wrote:
Open source man. That'd be great! And again dude, you're a great developer,
I really think this whole Monty and Raceway thing is a bunch of people
complaining, and demanding. Why give in. Just take your time and make it the
best game possible.

Mike
  


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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-14 Thread Will Lomas

can someone be so kind and upload the latests beta for me of monty
I do have a valid legal key to play
is this possible?

On 14 Oct 2008, at 17:43, Yohandy wrote:

I personally would love to grab a copy of the newest beta. It's a  
shame that all that hard work was wasted so close to completion. If  
you release it as freeware, they can't sue you, correct? Also, why  
couldn't you simply change the name of the game and release it as  
something else? It's not as if the devs played it, or even know what  
the game contains. all that you'd need to do is remove all montezuma  
references.

- Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Charles Rivard [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Gamers Discussion  
list gamers@audyssey.org

Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 12:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



Hi Charles,
That's correct. Everyone who paid for Montezuma's Revenge can still  
play all the betas that were released up until I had to pull it  
down off of my web sight. So they didn't exactly wind up with 0. I  
have not, and will never, ask anyone to delete their betas as they  
paid for them.
As for Dark's suggestion of mixing the old and new game I won't do  
that,but I have thought about releasing Montezuma's Revenge as open  
source or shareware at some point. Either that or I could complete  
the beta, and upload it to sendspace for a limited time to let  
people grab it before it is gone for good.



Charles Rivard wrote:
I believe you can still play the demos if you have them unless Tom  
requested that we delete them.  If he did request it, I will do  
so.  They are fun to play..


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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-14 Thread Yohandy
I personally would love to grab a copy of the newest beta. It's a shame that 
all that hard work was wasted so close to completion. If you release it as 
freeware, they can't sue you, correct? Also, why couldn't you simply change 
the name of the game and release it as something else? It's not as if the 
devs played it, or even know what the game contains. all that you'd need to 
do is remove all montezuma references.
- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Charles Rivard [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Gamers Discussion list 
gamers@audyssey.org

Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 12:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



Hi Charles,
That's correct. Everyone who paid for Montezuma's Revenge can still play 
all the betas that were released up until I had to pull it down off of my 
web sight. So they didn't exactly wind up with 0. I have not, and will 
never, ask anyone to delete their betas as they paid for them.
As for Dark's suggestion of mixing the old and new game I won't do 
that,but I have thought about releasing Montezuma's Revenge as open source 
or shareware at some point. Either that or I could complete the beta, and 
upload it to sendspace for a limited time to let people grab it before it 
is gone for good.



Charles Rivard wrote:
I believe you can still play the demos if you have them unless Tom 
requested that we delete them.  If he did request it, I will do so.  They 
are fun to play..


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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-14 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi,
I don't know about daily updates, but I still attempt to put out a 
monthly progress report on each of the projects I am working on. That 
should generally explain everything that needs saying all at once. Grin.


constantine (on laptop) wrote:
I agree, though it is sad that he can't disclose any information- it 
was nice to hear daily updates, or his plans, which sounded exciting, 
even though it might have taken a few years for him to complete (heck, 
ok, make that months).




contact details:

email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

and others
msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
skype: the_conman283

system details:
Hp pavillion dv5220CA notebook pc
AMD Turion(tm) 64 Mobile Technology ML-37 2.0 GHZ, 1024 mb DDR ram, 
Fujitsu 100 gb 4500 RPM Hard Drive, connecsant AC-link audio



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-14 Thread Stephen
but he didn't even like constructive criticism, he badmouthed me 
privately and on the list because he didn't like it when I kept 
finding so many crash bugs in monkey business.

At 03:44 PM 14/10/2008, you wrote:
He did have a lot of personal issues, but I think he could have 
handled the outcome much better than he did.  And a whole bunch of 
blind gamers did not make things any easier on him.  That compounded 
the matter.  I was furious with the complainers, not because they 
complained, but in the manner in which they did so.  I sided with 
James on that issue.  I blamed them for being, I think, the major 
reason he gave up the endeavors of game creation for blind 
gamers.  I sure didn't like the way he left, though.



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-13 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi,
Yeah, something like that.

shaun everiss wrote:

ouch.
yeah like you win the race but get disqualified because you started early or 
something.
  



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-13 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi,
Well, it all depends on the copyright holder. Some will let you create 
as much fan fiction as you want provided you don't sell it, and some 
like Lucas won't let you do anything with the copyright without being sued.


shaun everiss wrote:

who knows.
there are in fact loads of fan fictions and fan audio things.
I do aggree that on one series paramount got a bit mad because of copywrite use 
but most stuff about 99% of the stuff except for a couple series I know of 
actually go through fine.
maybe they concider it as another piece of fan fiction or something.
after all
  



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-13 Thread Willem

Hi.
Please don't make judgements about things you don't know a thing of. All 
I've seen from you in the short time you've resubscribed to this list is 
negativity.

Thank you.

btw as a potential game developer you should really know better.
- Original Message - 
From: Tyler Littlefield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Gamers Discussion list 
gamers@audyssey.org

Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



moral of the story: don't buy licences for games that aren't out yet. :)


Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
Visit tds for quality software and web design:
http://tysdomain.com
skype: st8amnd127
aim: st8amnd2005
msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-13 Thread Willem
Again, Thomas bought the title from James North, who took some pre orders 
and kept the money he received, so he would have had to give back money he 
didn't have to people if he wanted to be fair.
- Original Message - 
From: Jason Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge


It isn't unfair. If someone bought a license for the game and you were 
then

contacted to remove the title (actually, all you'd really need to do is
re-name it) you should have refunded everyone's purchase. Not give them
something else that they may or may not want. That's just how business 
goes.

It would have been the professional way to handle a bad situation - in my
opinion.
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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-13 Thread Michael Feir
 forward as a community. We also have at least one new developer 
working on a project that I know I'm going to love. A sound-based rpg is 
certainly going to go down my gullet nicely. It's Thanksgiving Day here in 
Canada. A very appropriate time to say a public thank you to Tom and all 
other developers who are working away. Games are a very powerful art form 
and you bring that splendidly to a group of people who otherwise would once 
again be stuck on the sidelines. I salute you all and hope one day to add my 
contribution to your own.


Michael Feir
Author of Personal Power:
How Accessible Computers Can Enhance Personal Life For Blind People
2006-2008
www.blind-planet.com/content/personal-power

A Life of Word and Sound
2003-2007
http://www.blind-planet.com/content/life-word-and-sound

Creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine
1996-2004
Check out my blog at:
www.michaelfeir.blogspot.com


- Original Message - 
From: dark [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



Hi Jason.

As I wasn't around at that point, i can't comment on the preorders to 
James north of Alchemy games. but as someone who actually payed for a 
preorder of thom's game, hestarted taking preorders on the basis that the 
game would be released officially a month afterwards.


Sinse I know a lot of accessible game devs get absolutely swamped with 
orders which they then have a huuge time filling once a game gets 
released, preorders,  so long as they're not massively before the 
release date, actually make sense as a congestion fixer.


In thom's case as well, sinse the demo of the full game would only allow 
non-paying customers to play one level, it was also a good way of getting 
public betas with more levels (but not the complete amount), play tested 
before hand.


for a while it was literally a sense of one beta a week, each with one or 
two extra levels.


this also would've prevented a huge amount of bug issues with the levels 
not available in the demo coming up on other people's computers after 
buying the game.


I really do think this was just a case of severely bad luck,  not just 
in that thom couldn't release the game he was planning to, but in that it 
happened at such an unfortunate moment.


I however deffinately agree with the statement that however good the 
finished new version of the game is, it would be rather nice for people 
who paid to be able to play the old levels which thom already got 
finished,   hence my suggestion of an expantion pack.


that way people would get at least %50 (going on number of levels), of the 
thing they paid for, pluss a lot more new game content as well, and thom's 
work wouldn't be waisted.


Beware the Grue!

dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-13 Thread Jason Allen
Actually, to be fair would have been to not accept any more pre-orders after
taking the project over. I can understand not refunding this other person's
dues (which is dubious to keep customers' money - in my opinion) but I think
it would have been better to stop taking pre-orders. It hurts all developers
if customers can't trust them to deliver on a pre-order.

I'm not placing blame on anyone or anything. Just discussing situation from
my angle.

On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 6:54 PM, Willem [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Again, Thomas bought the title from James North, who took some pre orders
 and kept the money he received, so he would have had to give back money he
 didn't have to people if he wanted to be fair.

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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-13 Thread dark

Hi Jason.

As I wasn't around at that point, i can't comment on the preorders to James 
north of Alchemy games. but as someone who actually payed for a preorder of 
thom's game, hestarted taking preorders on the basis that the game would be 
released officially a month afterwards.


Sinse I know a lot of accessible game devs get absolutely swamped with 
orders which they then have a huuge time filling once a game gets 
released, preorders,  so long as they're not massively before the 
release date, actually make sense as a congestion fixer.


In thom's case as well, sinse the demo of the full game would only allow 
non-paying customers to play one level, it was also a good way of getting 
public betas with more levels (but not the complete amount), play tested 
before hand.


for a while it was literally a sense of one beta a week, each with one or 
two extra levels.


this also would've prevented a huge amount of bug issues with the levels not 
available in the demo coming up on other people's computers after buying the 
game.


I really do think this was just a case of severely bad luck,  not just 
in that thom couldn't release the game he was planning to, but in that it 
happened at such an unfortunate moment.


I however deffinately agree with the statement that however good the 
finished new version of the game is, it would be rather nice for people who 
paid to be able to play the old levels which thom already got finished,   
hence my suggestion of an expantion pack.


that way people would get at least %50 (going on number of levels), of the 
thing they paid for, pluss a lot more new game content as well, and thom's 
work wouldn't be waisted.


Beware the Grue!

dark. 



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-13 Thread Willem

Very well said. I agree with everything you said below.
- Original Message - 
From: Michael Feir [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge


In my judgement, Tom has found the most fair approach in this tricky 
situation. It all started out because he wanted to save those of us who 
had waited ages for James North to finish Raceway and Montezuma's Revenge 
from the crushing disappointment we faced when he decided to pack it in. 
That attempted good deed has brought him no end of grief since. Everyone 
has had to compromise somewhat. We, the customers, won't be getting 
precisely what we originally paid for. However, Tom is going to give us a 
new and improved platformer so we'll at long last end up with a good one 
of those which is fully accessible. I've long felt that this genre would 
be spectacularly suited to blind people and be helpful to people just 
getting used to computer games as opposed to a fully 3d adventure. I'm 
profoundly grateful to Tom for deciding to do this. It wasn't an easy 
decision for him to reach and I know he has his own dreams he'd rather be 
working on. Although he has a lot of creative latitude now, I believe he 
would rather work on fully 3d games. Ultimately, I believe we'll end up 
with a spectacular platformer as long as we give Tom the patience and good 
will that he needs and deserves.


Due to this whole episode, I don't believe we'll see any developer put a 
game up for pre-ordering again. Too much distrust and damage was done to 
the whole concept for it to work in this gaming community. It can work for 
the sighted gaming world because the companies producing their games have 
the financial backing to handle things if projects go bad on them. For us, 
we're just too much at the mercy of the personal life circumstances of our 
developers. That's a sad thing because it could have helped established 
developers finance better assets such as sound effects and music to put in 
to their final products. I've just begun working on an accessible game 
which I believe will take me something like four years to create. I'm 
engaged to be married in around a year's time to a wonderful woman I've 
had the good fortune to find. Anticipating tougher economics after we're 
married, I decided to purchase royalty-free music while I still have my 
own source of income. That way, she's not going to have to sink any of her 
income into what is essentially my dream. In total, I've spent a little 
under $400 on the music. During my last attempt to create a game, I spent 
around the same on the SFX kit from Sound Ideas. That has around 2 
sounds I can legally use. Altogether then, I've spent around $800 on my 
dream of creating an accessible game. It helps a lot that I'm currently 
single and don't have other financial responsabilities. Most developers 
aren't in my somewhat unique circumstances. Unless I ultimately succeed in 
creating the game, I'll never see a dime of that investment.


What happened to Tom was a stroke of tremendous bad fortune which has had 
repercussions for everyone connected with accessible games. I believe that 
it has lowered the sense of trust and solidarity in the community as a 
whole. It has put everyone more on a business footing but somewhat reduced 
the overall feeling of community developers could once have enjoyed. This 
is ultimately a good thing as we'll see a lot less hopes being dashed due 
to developer burn-out in the future. However, new developers may find 
enthusiasm for their ideas somewhat more lacking. Less attempts at 
creation mean less successes as well as less failures. This community 
can't afford to lose any more game developers for any reason. Games take 
too long to create and we don't have that many who are known to be working 
on new games. That's also a sad part of the fallout from this whole 
episode. Developers are likely to be a lot more careful about what 
information they release than they were before all this happened. This 
means less information for Audyssey issues and less community discussion 
of fresh ideas that are actually being worked on. Dry spells will seem a 
whole lot longer due to this.


As members of this community, we likely don't have the ability to 
financially support new game developers other than to purchase their games 
once created. However, there's a whole lot that we can do to support 
developers who we already know about and encourage new people to take a 
crack at making accessible games. We can be patient and offer moral 
support while a developer works on a project. An encouraging email can 
count for a whole lot when you're slogging through the long dull aspects 
of creating your masterpiece. It makes such a nice change from When's the 
game going to be ready? When we see evidence that people are pirating 
games, we should take that evidence to the developer

Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-13 Thread constantine (on laptop)
I agree, though it is sad that he can't disclose any information- it was 
nice to hear daily updates, or his plans, which sounded exciting, even 
though it might have taken a few years for him to complete (heck, ok, make 
that months).




contact details:

email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

and others
msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
skype: the_conman283

system details:
Hp pavillion dv5220CA notebook pc
AMD Turion(tm) 64 Mobile Technology ML-37 2.0 GHZ, 1024 mb DDR ram, Fujitsu 
100 gb 4500 RPM Hard Drive, connecsant AC-link audio
- Original Message - 
From: Willem [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



Very well said. I agree with everything you said below.
- Original Message - 
From: Michael Feir [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



In my judgement, Tom has found the most fair approach in this tricky
situation. It all started out because he wanted to save those of us who
had waited ages for James North to finish Raceway and Montezuma's Revenge
from the crushing disappointment we faced when he decided to pack it in.
That attempted good deed has brought him no end of grief since. Everyone
has had to compromise somewhat. We, the customers, won't be getting
precisely what we originally paid for. However, Tom is going to give us a
new and improved platformer so we'll at long last end up with a good one
of those which is fully accessible. I've long felt that this genre would
be spectacularly suited to blind people and be helpful to people just
getting used to computer games as opposed to a fully 3d adventure. I'm
profoundly grateful to Tom for deciding to do this. It wasn't an easy
decision for him to reach and I know he has his own dreams he'd rather be
working on. Although he has a lot of creative latitude now, I believe he
would rather work on fully 3d games. Ultimately, I believe we'll end up
with a spectacular platformer as long as we give Tom the patience and 
good

will that he needs and deserves.

Due to this whole episode, I don't believe we'll see any developer put a
game up for pre-ordering again. Too much distrust and damage was done to
the whole concept for it to work in this gaming community. It can work 
for

the sighted gaming world because the companies producing their games have
the financial backing to handle things if projects go bad on them. For 
us,
we're just too much at the mercy of the personal life circumstances of 
our

developers. That's a sad thing because it could have helped established
developers finance better assets such as sound effects and music to put 
in

to their final products. I've just begun working on an accessible game
which I believe will take me something like four years to create. I'm
engaged to be married in around a year's time to a wonderful woman I've
had the good fortune to find. Anticipating tougher economics after we're
married, I decided to purchase royalty-free music while I still have my
own source of income. That way, she's not going to have to sink any of 
her

income into what is essentially my dream. In total, I've spent a little
under $400 on the music. During my last attempt to create a game, I spent
around the same on the SFX kit from Sound Ideas. That has around 2
sounds I can legally use. Altogether then, I've spent around $800 on my
dream of creating an accessible game. It helps a lot that I'm currently
single and don't have other financial responsabilities. Most developers
aren't in my somewhat unique circumstances. Unless I ultimately succeed 
in

creating the game, I'll never see a dime of that investment.

What happened to Tom was a stroke of tremendous bad fortune which has had
repercussions for everyone connected with accessible games. I believe 
that

it has lowered the sense of trust and solidarity in the community as a
whole. It has put everyone more on a business footing but somewhat 
reduced

the overall feeling of community developers could once have enjoyed. This
is ultimately a good thing as we'll see a lot less hopes being dashed due
to developer burn-out in the future. However, new developers may find
enthusiasm for their ideas somewhat more lacking. Less attempts at
creation mean less successes as well as less failures. This community
can't afford to lose any more game developers for any reason. Games take
too long to create and we don't have that many who are known to be 
working

on new games. That's also a sad part of the fallout from this whole
episode. Developers are likely to be a lot more careful about what
information they release than they were before all this happened. This
means less information for Audyssey issues and less community discussion
of fresh ideas that are actually being worked on. Dry spells will seem a
whole lot longer due

Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-13 Thread shaun everiss
not to mention the copywrite thing 3 weeks before release, I don't think any of 
us saw that comming.
At 10:17 a.m. 14/10/2008, you wrote:
I agree, though it is sad that he can't disclose any information- it was nice 
to hear daily updates, or his plans, which sounded exciting, even though it 
might have taken a few years for him to complete (heck, ok, make that months).



contact details:

email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

and others
msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
skype: the_conman283

system details:
Hp pavillion dv5220CA notebook pc
AMD Turion(tm) 64 Mobile Technology ML-37 2.0 GHZ, 1024 mb DDR ram, Fujitsu 
100 gb 4500 RPM Hard Drive, connecsant AC-link audio
- Original Message - From: Willem [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge


Very well said. I agree with everything you said below.
- Original Message - From: Michael Feir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge


In my judgement, Tom has found the most fair approach in this tricky
situation. It all started out because he wanted to save those of us who
had waited ages for James North to finish Raceway and Montezuma's Revenge
from the crushing disappointment we faced when he decided to pack it in.
That attempted good deed has brought him no end of grief since. Everyone
has had to compromise somewhat. We, the customers, won't be getting
precisely what we originally paid for. However, Tom is going to give us a
new and improved platformer so we'll at long last end up with a good one
of those which is fully accessible. I've long felt that this genre would
be spectacularly suited to blind people and be helpful to people just
getting used to computer games as opposed to a fully 3d adventure. I'm
profoundly grateful to Tom for deciding to do this. It wasn't an easy
decision for him to reach and I know he has his own dreams he'd rather be
working on. Although he has a lot of creative latitude now, I believe he
would rather work on fully 3d games. Ultimately, I believe we'll end up
with a spectacular platformer as long as we give Tom the patience and good
will that he needs and deserves.

Due to this whole episode, I don't believe we'll see any developer put a
game up for pre-ordering again. Too much distrust and damage was done to
the whole concept for it to work in this gaming community. It can work for
the sighted gaming world because the companies producing their games have
the financial backing to handle things if projects go bad on them. For us,
we're just too much at the mercy of the personal life circumstances of our
developers. That's a sad thing because it could have helped established
developers finance better assets such as sound effects and music to put in
to their final products. I've just begun working on an accessible game
which I believe will take me something like four years to create. I'm
engaged to be married in around a year's time to a wonderful woman I've
had the good fortune to find. Anticipating tougher economics after we're
married, I decided to purchase royalty-free music while I still have my
own source of income. That way, she's not going to have to sink any of her
income into what is essentially my dream. In total, I've spent a little
under $400 on the music. During my last attempt to create a game, I spent
around the same on the SFX kit from Sound Ideas. That has around 2
sounds I can legally use. Altogether then, I've spent around $800 on my
dream of creating an accessible game. It helps a lot that I'm currently
single and don't have other financial responsabilities. Most developers
aren't in my somewhat unique circumstances. Unless I ultimately succeed in
creating the game, I'll never see a dime of that investment.

What happened to Tom was a stroke of tremendous bad fortune which has had
repercussions for everyone connected with accessible games. I believe that
it has lowered the sense of trust and solidarity in the community as a
whole. It has put everyone more on a business footing but somewhat reduced
the overall feeling of community developers could once have enjoyed. This
is ultimately a good thing as we'll see a lot less hopes being dashed due
to developer burn-out in the future. However, new developers may find
enthusiasm for their ideas somewhat more lacking. Less attempts at
creation mean less successes as well as less failures. This community
can't afford to lose any more game developers for any reason. Games take
too long to create and we don't have that many who are known to be working
on new games. That's also a sad part of the fallout from this whole
episode. Developers are likely to be a lot more careful about what
information they release than they were before all this happened. This
means less information for Audyssey issues and less community

Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-13 Thread tim kilgore`
Yeah, but you had no idea that you would even have to consider refunding and 
as some one who pre-ordered, I understand and am looking forward to the new 
game.


Tim
- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



Hi Tyler,
That's for sure. If I had it all to do again I wouldn't have taken those 
pre-orders in the first place , or I would have refunded those I could and 
delt with those who paid James North in another way such as offering them 
a free game of their choice perhaps.



Tyler Littlefield wrote:

always assuming he can pull the cash out.

Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
Visit tds for quality software and web design:
http://tysdomain.com
skype: st8amnd127
aim: st8amnd2005
msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-13 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Willem,
It's ok. Tyler does have a good point. Buying games on a pre-order 
status is a bad idea. In a situation like ours.
There are too many things that can go wrong between the time the money 
is paid and the scheduled release date.
Biggest problem is that all of our major accessible game development 
companies are one to three man operations, and if something major pops 
up like a death in the family, illness, computer failior, etc any 
scheduled release date is going to go straight out the window. I know it 
happened to me, and weather many people know it or not James North had a 
lot of personal issues that kept getting in the way of release dates 
too. Point being anything can go wrong, and when it does those on 
pre-order are then going to turn on you for some event or events out of 
your personal control.


Willem wrote:

Hi.
Please don't make judgements about things you don't know a thing of. 
All I've seen from you in the short time you've resubscribed to this 
list is negativity.

Thank you.

btw as a potential game developer you should really know better.



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-13 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Jason,
Very true. Then again I only began taking pre-orders about four weeks 
before the scheduled release date for Montezuma's Revenge 1.0. A lot of 
commercial companies have pre-orders on items with in that time frame. A 
month, 30 days, isn't really all that long a wait. Problem is getting 
sacked over the copyright issue was something that came out of the clear 
blue sky and landed on me unexpectedly. So I've had to adjust my plans 
accordingly.


Jason Allen wrote:

Actually, to be fair would have been to not accept any more pre-orders after
taking the project over. I can understand not refunding this other person's
dues (which is dubious to keep customers' money - in my opinion) but I think
it would have been better to stop taking pre-orders. It hurts all developers
if customers can't trust them to deliver on a pre-order.

I'm not placing blame on anyone or anything. Just discussing situation from
my angle.
  



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-13 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi,
Yeah, taking over Raceway and Montezuma's Revenge has resulted in a lot 
of personal grief and misery for me. I've had my reputation marred, I've 
been verbally insulted, I've been called a thief, I've stayed up late 
trying to get this or that done,  and it has just been one bad thing 
after another. To ice the cake, so to speak, my apartment management had 
us out of our apartment for four months, and unfortunately I didn't have 
everything with me to work on the games. As a result I've gotten the 
blame for that too, because people want to know why the game wasn't 
finished asap.
However, on the bright side of this I really think I can pull a couple 
of good games out of the hat. No MOTA won't exactly be Montezuma's 
Revenge, but it still will be a side scroller, will be a treasure 
hunting adventure, have fire pits to jump over, avoid spike traps, lots 
of baddies to fight, and should at least give the person the feeling of 
a NES or Atari game.




Michael Feir wrote:
In my judgement, Tom has found the most fair approach in this tricky 
situation. It all started out because he wanted to save those of us 
who had waited ages for James North to finish Raceway and Montezuma's 
Revenge from the crushing disappointment we faced when he decided to 
pack it in. That attempted good deed has brought him no end of grief 
since. Everyone has had to compromise somewhat. We, the customers, 
won't be getting precisely what we originally paid for. However, Tom 
is going to give us a new and improved platformer so we'll at long 
last end up with a good one of those which is fully accessible. I've 
long felt that this genre would be spectacularly suited to blind 
people and be helpful to people just getting used to computer games as 
opposed to a fully 3d adventure. I'm profoundly grateful to Tom for 
deciding to do this. It wasn't an easy decision for him to reach and I 
know he has his own dreams he'd rather be working on. Although he has 
a lot of creative latitude now, I believe he would rather work on 
fully 3d games. Ultimately, I believe we'll end up with a spectacular 
platformer as long as we give Tom the patience and good will that he 
needs and deserves.


Due to this whole episode, I don't believe we'll see any developer put 
a game up for pre-ordering again. Too much distrust and damage was 
done to the whole concept for it to work in this gaming community. It 
can work for the sighted gaming world because the companies producing 
their games have the financial backing to handle things if projects go 
bad on them. For us, we're just too much at the mercy of the personal 
life circumstances of our developers. That's a sad thing because it 
could have helped established developers finance better assets such as 
sound effects and music to put in to their final products. I've just 
begun working on an accessible game which I believe will take me 
something like four years to create. I'm engaged to be married in 
around a year's time to a wonderful woman I've had the good fortune to 
find. Anticipating tougher economics after we're married, I decided to 
purchase royalty-free music while I still have my own source of 
income. That way, she's not going to have to sink any of her income 
into what is essentially my dream. In total, I've spent a little under 
$400 on the music. During my last attempt to create a game, I spent 
around the same on the SFX kit from Sound Ideas. That has around 2 
sounds I can legally use. Altogether then, I've spent around $800 on 
my dream of creating an accessible game. It helps a lot that I'm 
currently single and don't have other financial responsabilities. Most 
developers aren't in my somewhat unique circumstances. Unless I 
ultimately succeed in creating the game, I'll never see a dime of that 
investment.


What happened to Tom was a stroke of tremendous bad fortune which has 
had repercussions for everyone connected with accessible games. I 
believe that it has lowered the sense of trust and solidarity in the 
community as a whole. It has put everyone more on a business footing 
but somewhat reduced the overall feeling of community developers could 
once have enjoyed. This is ultimately a good thing as we'll see a lot 
less hopes being dashed due to developer burn-out in the future. 
However, new developers may find enthusiasm for their ideas somewhat 
more lacking. Less attempts at creation mean less successes as well as 
less failures. This community can't afford to lose any more game 
developers for any reason. Games take too long to create and we don't 
have that many who are known to be working on new games. That's also a 
sad part of the fallout from this whole episode. Developers are likely 
to be a lot more careful about what information they release than they 
were before all this happened. This means less information for 
Audyssey issues and less community discussion of fresh ideas that are 
actually being worked on. Dry spells will seem a whole lot 

Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-13 Thread shaun everiss
speaking about that I wander how easy it would be to emulate it as if the games 
were like a nes with say all the sounds and music things, not sure if thats 
possible but.
At 01:41 p.m. 14/10/2008, you wrote:
Hi,
Yeah, taking over Raceway and Montezuma's Revenge has resulted in a lot of 
personal grief and misery for me. I've had my reputation marred, I've been 
verbally insulted, I've been called a thief, I've stayed up late trying to get 
this or that done,  and it has just been one bad thing after another. To ice 
the cake, so to speak, my apartment management had us out of our apartment for 
four months, and unfortunately I didn't have everything with me to work on the 
games. As a result I've gotten the blame for that too, because people want to 
know why the game wasn't finished asap.
However, on the bright side of this I really think I can pull a couple of good 
games out of the hat. No MOTA won't exactly be Montezuma's Revenge, but it 
still will be a side scroller, will be a treasure hunting adventure, have fire 
pits to jump over, avoid spike traps, lots of baddies to fight, and should at 
least give the person the feeling of a NES or Atari game.



Michael Feir wrote:
In my judgement, Tom has found the most fair approach in this tricky 
situation. It all started out because he wanted to save those of us who had 
waited ages for James North to finish Raceway and Montezuma's Revenge from 
the crushing disappointment we faced when he decided to pack it in. That 
attempted good deed has brought him no end of grief since. Everyone has had 
to compromise somewhat. We, the customers, won't be getting precisely what we 
originally paid for. However, Tom is going to give us a new and improved 
platformer so we'll at long last end up with a good one of those which is 
fully accessible. I've long felt that this genre would be spectacularly 
suited to blind people and be helpful to people just getting used to computer 
games as opposed to a fully 3d adventure. I'm profoundly grateful to Tom for 
deciding to do this. It wasn't an easy decision for him to reach and I know 
he has his own dreams he'd rather be working on. Although he has a lot of 
creative latitude now,
 I believe he would rather work on fully 3d games. Ultimately, I believe we'll 
end up with a spectacular platformer as long as we give Tom the patience and 
good will that he needs and deserves.

Due to this whole episode, I don't believe we'll see any developer put a game 
up for pre-ordering again. Too much distrust and damage was done to the whole 
concept for it to work in this gaming community. It can work for the sighted 
gaming world because the companies producing their games have the financial 
backing to handle things if projects go bad on them. For us, we're just too 
much at the mercy of the personal life circumstances of our developers. 
That's a sad thing because it could have helped established developers 
finance better assets such as sound effects and music to put in to their 
final products. I've just begun working on an accessible game which I believe 
will take me something like four years to create. I'm engaged to be married 
in around a year's time to a wonderful woman I've had the good fortune to 
find. Anticipating tougher economics after we're married, I decided to 
purchase royalty-free music while I still have my own source of income. That 
way, she's not g
oing to have to sink any of her income into what is essentially my dream. In 
total, I've spent a little under $400 on the music. During my last attempt to 
create a game, I spent around the same on the SFX kit from Sound Ideas. That 
has around 2 sounds I can legally use. Altogether then, I've spent around 
$800 on my dream of creating an accessible game. It helps a lot that I'm 
currently single and don't have other financial responsabilities. Most 
developers aren't in my somewhat unique circumstances. Unless I ultimately 
succeed in creating the game, I'll never see a dime of that investment.

What happened to Tom was a stroke of tremendous bad fortune which has had 
repercussions for everyone connected with accessible games. I believe that it 
has lowered the sense of trust and solidarity in the community as a whole. It 
has put everyone more on a business footing but somewhat reduced the overall 
feeling of community developers could once have enjoyed. This is ultimately a 
good thing as we'll see a lot less hopes being dashed due to developer 
burn-out in the future. However, new developers may find enthusiasm for their 
ideas somewhat more lacking. Less attempts at creation mean less successes as 
well as less failures. This community can't afford to lose any more game 
developers for any reason. Games take too long to create and we don't have 
that many who are known to be working on new games. That's also a sad part of 
the fallout from this whole episode. Developers are likely to be a lot more 
careful about what information they release than they 

Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-13 Thread Charles Rivard

Hindsight is always 20/20.

---
Pretty is as pretty does.
- Original Message - 
From: Jason Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 2:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge


Actually, to be fair would have been to not accept any more pre-orders 
after
taking the project over. I can understand not refunding this other 
person's
dues (which is dubious to keep customers' money - in my opinion) but I 
think
it would have been better to stop taking pre-orders. It hurts all 
developers

if customers can't trust them to deliver on a pre-order.

I'm not placing blame on anyone or anything. Just discussing situation 
from

my angle.

On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 6:54 PM, Willem [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Again, Thomas bought the title from James North, who took some pre orders
and kept the money he received, so he would have had to give back money 
he

didn't have to people if he wanted to be fair.


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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-13 Thread Charles Rivard
I believe you can still play the demos if you have them unless Tom requested 
that we delete them.  If he did request it, I will do so.  They are fun to 
play..


---
Pretty is as pretty does.
- Original Message - 
From: dark [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 3:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



Hi Jason.

As I wasn't around at that point, i can't comment on the preorders to 
James north of Alchemy games. but as someone who actually payed for a 
preorder of thom's game, hestarted taking preorders on the basis that the 
game would be released officially a month afterwards.


Sinse I know a lot of accessible game devs get absolutely swamped with 
orders which they then have a huuge time filling once a game gets 
released, preorders,  so long as they're not massively before the 
release date, actually make sense as a congestion fixer.


In thom's case as well, sinse the demo of the full game would only allow 
non-paying customers to play one level, it was also a good way of getting 
public betas with more levels (but not the complete amount), play tested 
before hand.


for a while it was literally a sense of one beta a week, each with one or 
two extra levels.


this also would've prevented a huge amount of bug issues with the levels 
not available in the demo coming up on other people's computers after 
buying the game.


I really do think this was just a case of severely bad luck,  not just 
in that thom couldn't release the game he was planning to, but in that it 
happened at such an unfortunate moment.


I however deffinately agree with the statement that however good the 
finished new version of the game is, it would be rather nice for people 
who paid to be able to play the old levels which thom already got 
finished,   hence my suggestion of an expantion pack.


that way people would get at least %50 (going on number of levels), of the 
thing they paid for, pluss a lot more new game content as well, and thom's 
work wouldn't be waisted.


Beware the Grue!

dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-13 Thread shaun everiss
we can't share them but we can still play, to be honest i forgot.
I have deleted mine though.
At 04:49 p.m. 14/10/2008, you wrote:
I believe you can still play the demos if you have them unless Tom requested 
that we delete them.  If he did request it, I will do so.  They are fun to 
play..

---
Pretty is as pretty does.
- Original Message - From: dark [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 3:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge


Hi Jason.

As I wasn't around at that point, i can't comment on the preorders to James 
north of Alchemy games. but as someone who actually payed for a preorder of 
thom's game, hestarted taking preorders on the basis that the game would be 
released officially a month afterwards.

Sinse I know a lot of accessible game devs get absolutely swamped with orders 
which they then have a huuge time filling once a game gets released, 
preorders,  so long as they're not massively before the release date, 
actually make sense as a congestion fixer.

In thom's case as well, sinse the demo of the full game would only allow 
non-paying customers to play one level, it was also a good way of getting 
public betas with more levels (but not the complete amount), play tested 
before hand.

for a while it was literally a sense of one beta a week, each with one or two 
extra levels.

this also would've prevented a huge amount of bug issues with the levels not 
available in the demo coming up on other people's computers after buying the 
game.

I really do think this was just a case of severely bad luck,  not just in 
that thom couldn't release the game he was planning to, but in that it 
happened at such an unfortunate moment.

I however deffinately agree with the statement that however good the finished 
new version of the game is, it would be rather nice for people who paid to be 
able to play the old levels which thom already got finished,   hence my 
suggestion of an expantion pack.

that way people would get at least %50 (going on number of levels), of the 
thing they paid for, pluss a lot more new game content as well, and thom's 
work wouldn't be waisted.

Beware the Grue!

dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-13 Thread Charles Rivard
He did have a lot of personal issues, but I think he could have handled the 
outcome much better than he did.  And a whole bunch of blind gamers did not 
make things any easier on him.  That compounded the matter.  I was furious 
with the complainers, not because they complained, but in the manner in 
which they did so.  I sided with James on that issue.  I blamed them for 
being, I think, the major reason he gave up the endeavors of game creation 
for blind gamers.  I sure didn't like the way he left, though.


---
Pretty is as pretty does.
- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



Hi Willem,
It's ok. Tyler does have a good point. Buying games on a pre-order status 
is a bad idea. In a situation like ours.
There are too many things that can go wrong between the time the money is 
paid and the scheduled release date.
Biggest problem is that all of our major accessible game development 
companies are one to three man operations, and if something major pops up 
like a death in the family, illness, computer failior, etc any scheduled 
release date is going to go straight out the window. I know it happened to 
me, and weather many people know it or not James North had a lot of 
personal issues that kept getting in the way of release dates too. Point 
being anything can go wrong, and when it does those on pre-order are then 
going to turn on you for some event or events out of your personal 
control.


Willem wrote:

Hi.
Please don't make judgements about things you don't know a thing of. All 
I've seen from you in the short time you've resubscribed to this list is 
negativity.

Thank you.

btw as a potential game developer you should really know better.



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-13 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Charles,
That's correct. Everyone who paid for Montezuma's Revenge can still play 
all the betas that were released up until I had to pull it down off of 
my web sight. So they didn't exactly wind up with 0. I have not, and 
will never, ask anyone to delete their betas as they paid for them.
As for Dark's suggestion of mixing the old and new game I won't do 
that,but I have thought about releasing Montezuma's Revenge as open 
source or shareware at some point. Either that or I could complete the 
beta, and upload it to sendspace for a limited time to let people grab 
it before it is gone for good.



Charles Rivard wrote:
I believe you can still play the demos if you have them unless Tom 
requested that we delete them.  If he did request it, I will do so.  
They are fun to play..


---
Pretty is as pretty does.



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-12 Thread Tyler Littlefield

moral of the story: don't buy licences for games that aren't out yet. :)


Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
Visit tds for quality software and web design:
http://tysdomain.com
skype: st8amnd127
aim: st8amnd2005
msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message - 
From: Demetry Yousifidou [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 3:02 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



Hello,

who knows meanwhile what it looks with Montezuma's Revenge? What's the
stage of development? And, what's the last version? When there's a good
chance after over one year for a final version? Already I had had bought
the license shortly before Christmas 2007 at that time and one still can
for the game wait? Who can give me more information about that?

Thanks in advance.

--
Kind regards,
Demetry Yousifidou

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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-12 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Demetry,
Let me explain what has happened in regards to that title. Many of those 
who get our monthly news letter are aware of what happened to us, but I 
will recap the important points for you now.
Back in December, shortly before Christmas, we were approaching a final 
release with Montezuma's Revenge, and put it on pre-order. However, 
unknown to us by putting it on pre-order status someone braught it to 
the attention of the company that holds the current commercial 
copywrites for Montezuma's Revenge and Montezuma's Return, and then they 
contacted us by email. They specifically requested an immediate cease 
and desist of selling that title. If we refused they threatened us with 
a lawsuit to pay for copywrite infringement damages.
I know enough about U.S. copywrite law to know it was a serious enough 
issue, and my best legal recourse was to stop selling the product, 
remove all copies from my web site, and create a new product to give to 
those customers who already paid for the game over the Christmas holidays.
So what we are doing right now is we are rewriting the game under the 
title Mysteries of the Ancients. It is still a side-scroller, has some 
of the same kinds of traps, puzzles, game play, etc but we are creating 
it in such a way that there can be no doubt we are not infringing on the 
Montezuma's Revenge copywrites.
Unfortunately for us back in April my apartment management started 
remottling our apartment building which took about five months to 
complete I did not really have a lot of time to work on Mysteries of the 
Ancients over the late spring and summer. So I've basically for all 
intents and purposes just started on the rewrite around the last week of 
August. So far the rewrite is going well, but I don't expect anything 
substantial until Christmas time or so.

Hope that explains what is going on.
Cheers.


Demetry Yousifidou wrote:

Hello,

who knows meanwhile what it looks with Montezuma's Revenge? What's the
stage of development? And, what's the last version? When there's a good
chance after over one year for a final version? Already I had had bought
the license shortly before Christmas 2007 at that time and one still can
for the game wait? Who can give me more information about that?

Thanks in advance.

  



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-12 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Tyler,
You know that is so unfair. We were a couple of weeks from final release 
when the Montezuma's Revenge copywrite holders sacked us with a order to 
cease and desist or face a lawsuit. If it had been a USA Games original 
title rather than based on a commercial product by the same name it 
would not have been sacked in the first place. The game would have been 
released months ago. Instead we got sacked, and were forced unwillingly 
to rewrite it or refund everyone their money. If I had thought more 
clearly back then I would have just refunded the pre-orders and been 
done with it, but since I no longer have those funds I have to do the 
rewrite, and that is going to take months to complete.



Tyler Littlefield wrote:

moral of the story: don't buy licences for games that aren't out yet. :)


Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
Visit tds for quality software and web design:
http://tysdomain.com
skype: st8amnd127
aim: st8amnd2005
msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-12 Thread Tyler Littlefield

that sounds painfull. good luck with the whole thing.

Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
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- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Gamers Discussion list 
gamers@audyssey.org

Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



Hi Demetry,
Let me explain what has happened in regards to that title. Many of those 
who get our monthly news letter are aware of what happened to us, but I 
will recap the important points for you now.
Back in December, shortly before Christmas, we were approaching a final 
release with Montezuma's Revenge, and put it on pre-order. However, 
unknown to us by putting it on pre-order status someone braught it to the 
attention of the company that holds the current commercial copywrites for 
Montezuma's Revenge and Montezuma's Return, and then they contacted us by 
email. They specifically requested an immediate cease and desist of 
selling that title. If we refused they threatened us with a lawsuit to pay 
for copywrite infringement damages.
I know enough about U.S. copywrite law to know it was a serious enough 
issue, and my best legal recourse was to stop selling the product, remove 
all copies from my web site, and create a new product to give to those 
customers who already paid for the game over the Christmas holidays.
So what we are doing right now is we are rewriting the game under the 
title Mysteries of the Ancients. It is still a side-scroller, has some of 
the same kinds of traps, puzzles, game play, etc but we are creating it in 
such a way that there can be no doubt we are not infringing on the 
Montezuma's Revenge copywrites.
Unfortunately for us back in April my apartment management started 
remottling our apartment building which took about five months to complete 
I did not really have a lot of time to work on Mysteries of the Ancients 
over the late spring and summer. So I've basically for all intents and 
purposes just started on the rewrite around the last week of August. So 
far the rewrite is going well, but I don't expect anything substantial 
until Christmas time or so.

Hope that explains what is going on.
Cheers.


Demetry Yousifidou wrote:

Hello,

who knows meanwhile what it looks with Montezuma's Revenge? What's the
stage of development? And, what's the last version? When there's a good
chance after over one year for a final version? Already I had had bought
the license shortly before Christmas 2007 at that time and one still can
for the game wait? Who can give me more information about that?

Thanks in advance.





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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-12 Thread Tyler Littlefield
I wasn't trying to be unfair, I'd heard about the game, but didn't erally 
know who wrote it. I was just stating that pre-ordering a game that doesn't 
exist is, for lack of a better term not the brightest idea. Nothing intended 
against you at all.


Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
Visit tds for quality software and web design:
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- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



Hi Tyler,
You know that is so unfair. We were a couple of weeks from final release 
when the Montezuma's Revenge copywrite holders sacked us with a order to 
cease and desist or face a lawsuit. If it had been a USA Games original 
title rather than based on a commercial product by the same name it would 
not have been sacked in the first place. The game would have been released 
months ago. Instead we got sacked, and were forced unwillingly to rewrite 
it or refund everyone their money. If I had thought more clearly back then 
I would have just refunded the pre-orders and been done with it, but since 
I no longer have those funds I have to do the rewrite, and that is going 
to take months to complete.



Tyler Littlefield wrote:

moral of the story: don't buy licences for games that aren't out yet. :)


Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-12 Thread Jason Allen
It isn't unfair. If someone bought a license for the game and you were then
contacted to remove the title (actually, all you'd really need to do is
re-name it) you should have refunded everyone's purchase. Not give them
something else that they may or may not want. That's just how business goes.
It would have been the professional way to handle a bad situation - in my
opinion.
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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-12 Thread Tyler Littlefield

always assuming he can pull the cash out.

Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
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- Original Message - 
From: Jason Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge


It isn't unfair. If someone bought a license for the game and you were 
then

contacted to remove the title (actually, all you'd really need to do is
re-name it) you should have refunded everyone's purchase. Not give them
something else that they may or may not want. That's just how business 
goes.

It would have been the professional way to handle a bad situation - in my
opinion.
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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-12 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Tyler,
Very painful. Especially, considering I had put around 18 months into 
the project, got to the finish line, and then got sacked with a cease 
and desist order. Now, that majorly sucked royally.


Tyler Littlefield wrote:

that sounds painfull. good luck with the whole thing.

Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
Visit tds for quality software and web design:
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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-12 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Tyler,
Unfortunately, the game exists. It was litterally about 2 or three weeks 
out from a final 1.0 release when I was forced to stop production. If I 
wasn't sure I could deliver it soon I wouldn't have put it up for 
pre-order. I was certain it would be out in two or three weeks so I put 
it up for sale, and then that's when someone took notice and came 
gunning for me.
What I find amazing is Star Trek, STFC, has been on my web sight for 
three and a half years and no one from Paramount has said anything about 
it. I put Montezuma's Revenge up for sale for about two weeks and I 
found myself in deep crap.




Tyler Littlefield wrote:
I wasn't trying to be unfair, I'd heard about the game, but didn't 
erally know who wrote it. I was just stating that pre-ordering a game 
that doesn't exist is, for lack of a better term not the brightest 
idea. Nothing intended against you at all.


Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
Visit tds for quality software and web design:
http://tysdomain.com
skype: st8amnd127
aim: st8amnd2005
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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-12 Thread Tyler Littlefield

knock on wood. Good luck with it.


Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
Visit tds for quality software and web design:
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- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



Hi Tyler,
Unfortunately, the game exists. It was litterally about 2 or three weeks 
out from a final 1.0 release when I was forced to stop production. If I 
wasn't sure I could deliver it soon I wouldn't have put it up for 
pre-order. I was certain it would be out in two or three weeks so I put it 
up for sale, and then that's when someone took notice and came gunning for 
me.
What I find amazing is Star Trek, STFC, has been on my web sight for three 
and a half years and no one from Paramount has said anything about it. I 
put Montezuma's Revenge up for sale for about two weeks and I found myself 
in deep crap.




Tyler Littlefield wrote:
I wasn't trying to be unfair, I'd heard about the game, but didn't erally 
know who wrote it. I was just stating that pre-ordering a game that 
doesn't exist is, for lack of a better term not the brightest idea. 
Nothing intended against you at all.


Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
Visit tds for quality software and web design:
http://tysdomain.com
skype: st8amnd127
aim: st8amnd2005
msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-12 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Jason,
Keep in mind James North had sold the game to several customers before I 
took over the project. I agreed to take it over, and sell it under my 
own name once I completed it. I never saw one dime of the money James 
North got for creating the early development of the game. So in addition 
to the $1500 I made off the game during the Christmas season I would 
have had to come up with an extra $1000 to insure everyone got their 
money back. The $1500 I made over the Christmas season would have been 
no problem to refund at the time. However, coming up with the money to 
refund everyone who paid James North instead of me was not financially 
possible, nor do I think I have to owe $1000 in refunds I did not 
personally take orders for.

Cheers.


Jason Allen wrote:

It isn't unfair. If someone bought a license for the game and you were then
contacted to remove the title (actually, all you'd really need to do is
re-name it) you should have refunded everyone's purchase. Not give them
something else that they may or may not want. That's just how business goes.
It would have been the professional way to handle a bad situation - in my
opinion.
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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-12 Thread Thomas Ward

Hi Tyler,
That's for sure. If I had it all to do again I wouldn't have taken those 
pre-orders in the first place , or I would have refunded those I could 
and delt with those who paid James North in another way such as offering 
them a free game of their choice perhaps.



Tyler Littlefield wrote:

always assuming he can pull the cash out.

Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-12 Thread dark
I'm afraid tom, I find the vigilence of the game people rather worryingly 
realistic. Afterall, Paramount won't be bothered by lots of fans producing 
their own startrek programs, but that's not the same for game developers 
when their are lots of great programmers out there doing things on the 
internet.


i heard about one Dev working on a freeware engine to create Metroid type 
games (sadly graphical ones).
it wasn't even metroid, it was just heavily based on metroid mechanics with 
his own sorce code,  though admittedly he had used graphics from the 
original Nes metroid game.


one day he logued onto the site where he was storing everything to find that 
Nintendo had contacted his web host, had his entire storage space purge and 
whacked him with a cease and desist order without a by your leave, - and 
that wasn't even a vaguely commercial project!


needless to say, said dev was rather upset.

Speaking of your platformer Tom, I do have one question.

While I understand your renaming the game, level design I believe isn't 
copywrite at all. therefore, while on the one hand I'm rather looking 
forward to seeing what devious level creations and traps you can come up 
with, I'll be rather sorry to see the old levels unused after all your hard 
work.


I was wondering therefore if you considdered something like releasing the 
final betas of the old levels,  the ones with the Mota name, characters 
and music, as an expantion pack.


i only ask because I was playing them on my laptop before transferring them 
across to my desktop, and frankly having a great time with them.


that way, at least some of all the hard work you put in on those rather fun 
levels won't be waisted, - even if we do have to say goodbye to panama 
Jo.


beware the Grue!

dark. 



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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-12 Thread dark
Personally, i'd rather have my stil working license and beta version than a 
refund anyway.


while it's a trifle short owing to not all of the levels being in 
there,  it's stil worth playing.


Beware the Grue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 5:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge



Hi Jason,
Keep in mind James North had sold the game to several customers before I 
took over the project. I agreed to take it over, and sell it under my own 
name once I completed it. I never saw one dime of the money James North 
got for creating the early development of the game. So in addition to the 
$1500 I made off the game during the Christmas season I would have had to 
come up with an extra $1000 to insure everyone got their money back. The 
$1500 I made over the Christmas season would have been no problem to 
refund at the time. However, coming up with the money to refund everyone 
who paid James North instead of me was not financially possible, nor do I 
think I have to owe $1000 in refunds I did not personally take orders for.

Cheers.


Jason Allen wrote:
It isn't unfair. If someone bought a license for the game and you were 
then

contacted to remove the title (actually, all you'd really need to do is
re-name it) you should have refunded everyone's purchase. Not give them
something else that they may or may not want. That's just how business 
goes.

It would have been the professional way to handle a bad situation - in my
opinion.
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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-12 Thread shaun everiss
ouch.
yeah like you win the race but get disqualified because you started early or 
something.
At 05:15 p.m. 13/10/2008, you wrote:
Hi Tyler,
Very painful. Especially, considering I had put around 18 months into the 
project, got to the finish line, and then got sacked with a cease and desist 
order. Now, that majorly sucked royally.

Tyler Littlefield wrote:
that sounds painfull. good luck with the whole thing.

Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
Visit tds for quality software and web design:
http://tysdomain.com
skype: st8amnd127
aim: st8amnd2005
msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [Audyssey] To the developers of Montezuma's Revenge

2008-10-12 Thread shaun everiss
who knows.
there are in fact loads of fan fictions and fan audio things.
I do aggree that on one series paramount got a bit mad because of copywrite use 
but most stuff about 99% of the stuff except for a couple series I know of 
actually go through fine.
maybe they concider it as another piece of fan fiction or something.
after all
 At 05:23 p.m. 13/10/2008, you wrote:
Hi Tyler,
Unfortunately, the game exists. It was litterally about 2 or three weeks out 
from a final 1.0 release when I was forced to stop production. If I wasn't 
sure I could deliver it soon I wouldn't have put it up for pre-order. I was 
certain it would be out in two or three weeks so I put it up for sale, and 
then that's when someone took notice and came gunning for me.
What I find amazing is Star Trek, STFC, has been on my web sight for three and 
a half years and no one from Paramount has said anything about it. I put 
Montezuma's Revenge up for sale for about two weeks and I found myself in deep 
crap.



Tyler Littlefield wrote:
I wasn't trying to be unfair, I'd heard about the game, but didn't erally 
know who wrote it. I was just stating that pre-ordering a game that doesn't 
exist is, for lack of a better term not the brightest idea. Nothing intended 
against you at all.

Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
Visit tds for quality software and web design:
http://tysdomain.com
skype: st8amnd127
aim: st8amnd2005
msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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