Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4
Couldn't agree more, I think he's great myself. He really has taken the time and he's not just said that he'd work on it and forget it, he's made the compatability mode as part of every update and he's made it clear that he's working on it in every update. Is the blind mode switched on by default?? -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Che Sent: 22 December 2008 21:33 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4 I agree, to blame the developer of this game for it not working smoothly with jaws is a little nutty. I think with some more moderate scripting, the game could be made playable without too much difficulty by jaws, but I myself don't enjoy poking around trying to find something on the screen, I am big on easy and intuitive interfaces, as anyone who has played my games can attest. I took a stab at writing some jaws scripts for smugglers, but even with the scripts, some information was seemingly impossible to read, but that is more likely a failure on my part, not the games. I have never used hal, so not sure what it is doing differently, but if it makes the game easy to play without extra coding, it is definately doing more than jaws is so far. When I heard Neals was developing some features that would make his game accessible, I went ahead and bought it, not sure if I would like it or not, because it didn't matter if I liked it. I wanted to support this effort, so maybe other mainstream game developers would see us blinks are willing to support their efforts to include us. I am a jaws scripting hobbyist at best at this point, so maybe with a more advanced scripter it would be possible to get the game working smoothly. If anyone knows a person out there that might be into giving it a shot, tell them to go for it. In the end, no matter the results, Neals has gone much farther in trying to make his game accessible than almost all the other mainstream game developers out there, and for that he deserves our thanks. Later taters, Che --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1861 - Release Date: 22/12/2008 11:23 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1861 - Release Date: 22/12/2008 11:23 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4
No, you have to activate it in the options menue at the start of each game, but that's really not a problem sinse everything there is text. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Che' c...@blindadrenaline.com; 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4 Couldn't agree more, I think he's great myself. He really has taken the time and he's not just said that he'd work on it and forget it, he's made the compatability mode as part of every update and he's made it clear that he's working on it in every update. Is the blind mode switched on by default?? -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Che Sent: 22 December 2008 21:33 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4 I agree, to blame the developer of this game for it not working smoothly with jaws is a little nutty. I think with some more moderate scripting, the game could be made playable without too much difficulty by jaws, but I myself don't enjoy poking around trying to find something on the screen, I am big on easy and intuitive interfaces, as anyone who has played my games can attest. I took a stab at writing some jaws scripts for smugglers, but even with the scripts, some information was seemingly impossible to read, but that is more likely a failure on my part, not the games. I have never used hal, so not sure what it is doing differently, but if it makes the game easy to play without extra coding, it is definately doing more than jaws is so far. When I heard Neals was developing some features that would make his game accessible, I went ahead and bought it, not sure if I would like it or not, because it didn't matter if I liked it. I wanted to support this effort, so maybe other mainstream game developers would see us blinks are willing to support their efforts to include us. I am a jaws scripting hobbyist at best at this point, so maybe with a more advanced scripter it would be possible to get the game working smoothly. If anyone knows a person out there that might be into giving it a shot, tell them to go for it. In the end, no matter the results, Neals has gone much farther in trying to make his game accessible than almost all the other mainstream game developers out there, and for that he deserves our thanks. Later taters, Che --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1861 - Release Date: 22/12/2008 11:23 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1861 - Release Date: 22/12/2008 11:23 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4
I can't seem to buy it. Every time I try it says tthat there is nothing in my basket -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 23 December 2008 11:13 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4 No, you have to activate it in the options menue at the start of each game, but that's really not a problem sinse everything there is text. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Che' c...@blindadrenaline.com; 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4 Couldn't agree more, I think he's great myself. He really has taken the time and he's not just said that he'd work on it and forget it, he's made the compatability mode as part of every update and he's made it clear that he's working on it in every update. Is the blind mode switched on by default?? -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Che Sent: 22 December 2008 21:33 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4 I agree, to blame the developer of this game for it not working smoothly with jaws is a little nutty. I think with some more moderate scripting, the game could be made playable without too much difficulty by jaws, but I myself don't enjoy poking around trying to find something on the screen, I am big on easy and intuitive interfaces, as anyone who has played my games can attest. I took a stab at writing some jaws scripts for smugglers, but even with the scripts, some information was seemingly impossible to read, but that is more likely a failure on my part, not the games. I have never used hal, so not sure what it is doing differently, but if it makes the game easy to play without extra coding, it is definately doing more than jaws is so far. When I heard Neals was developing some features that would make his game accessible, I went ahead and bought it, not sure if I would like it or not, because it didn't matter if I liked it. I wanted to support this effort, so maybe other mainstream game developers would see us blinks are willing to support their efforts to include us. I am a jaws scripting hobbyist at best at this point, so maybe with a more advanced scripter it would be possible to get the game working smoothly. If anyone knows a person out there that might be into giving it a shot, tell them to go for it. In the end, no matter the results, Neals has gone much farther in trying to make his game accessible than almost all the other mainstream game developers out there, and for that he deserves our thanks. Later taters, Che --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1861 - Release Date: 22/12/2008 11:23 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1861 - Release Date: 22/12/2008 11:23 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1861 - Release Date: 22/12/2008 11:23 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1861 - Release Date: 22/12/2008 11:23 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want
Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4
Don't worry sorted it now -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Darren Harris Sent: 23 December 2008 11:22 To: 'Gamers Discussion list' Subject: Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4 I can't seem to buy it. Every time I try it says tthat there is nothing in my basket -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 23 December 2008 11:13 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4 No, you have to activate it in the options menue at the start of each game, but that's really not a problem sinse everything there is text. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Harris darren_g_har...@btinternet.com To: 'Che' c...@blindadrenaline.com; 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4 Couldn't agree more, I think he's great myself. He really has taken the time and he's not just said that he'd work on it and forget it, he's made the compatability mode as part of every update and he's made it clear that he's working on it in every update. Is the blind mode switched on by default?? -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Che Sent: 22 December 2008 21:33 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4 I agree, to blame the developer of this game for it not working smoothly with jaws is a little nutty. I think with some more moderate scripting, the game could be made playable without too much difficulty by jaws, but I myself don't enjoy poking around trying to find something on the screen, I am big on easy and intuitive interfaces, as anyone who has played my games can attest. I took a stab at writing some jaws scripts for smugglers, but even with the scripts, some information was seemingly impossible to read, but that is more likely a failure on my part, not the games. I have never used hal, so not sure what it is doing differently, but if it makes the game easy to play without extra coding, it is definately doing more than jaws is so far. When I heard Neals was developing some features that would make his game accessible, I went ahead and bought it, not sure if I would like it or not, because it didn't matter if I liked it. I wanted to support this effort, so maybe other mainstream game developers would see us blinks are willing to support their efforts to include us. I am a jaws scripting hobbyist at best at this point, so maybe with a more advanced scripter it would be possible to get the game working smoothly. If anyone knows a person out there that might be into giving it a shot, tell them to go for it. In the end, no matter the results, Neals has gone much farther in trying to make his game accessible than almost all the other mainstream game developers out there, and for that he deserves our thanks. Later taters, Che --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1861 - Release Date: 22/12/2008 11:23 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1861 - Release Date: 22/12/2008 11:23 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database
[Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4
hi list. please forgive me not replying in the smugglers 4 threads, but because of my annoying jaws issue, I couldn't select the subject line in a digest in order to copy it so i could paste it into my subject of this message. anyway, I think its great the smugglers 4 developer is trying to make his game accessible, however i just wish he had consulted us on what we as blind players need. as although i like this type of game, there are several issues with it that for me just make the game a lot of hard work to play, in fact i've pritty much given up playing it.#] firstly the biggest headake is for a jfw user the combat screen when your ship is fighting just looks a total mess, its really hard to make sense of it and you can't easily find options as they are berried in bits of random text about your ship, or some times split over several lines. my second big headake is the fact that he's just tried to adapt the interface a little bit, i'm sure we all agree it would be a lot easier to play if we had a conventional menu system we could use with the pc cursor, and maybe even the ability to press letters to activate particular options. i'm playing on a laptop, and its probably because of the amount of cursoring around i have to do as well as simulated mouse clicks that just annoys me, it can some times take me 15 or 20 minutes just to beat one ship. mostly because after each action i do like firing a gun i have to cursor down to the bottom of the screen, simulate a mouse click with caps and number 8 to click ok, and then move back up the screen and try to find the fire option again, and then if i have 1 point left over i have to waste time hunting around the screen for the end turn option. your arms can get quite tired when doing a lot of simulated mouse clicks lol. all in all i find this game frustrating to play and i wouldn't recommend anyone to buy it untill either its interface is radicly altered for us, or neils designs a conventional menu system for us. i wrote to him explaining my issues, and he wrote back complaining sales of his game hadn't been as good as he'd hoped so it would make it harder for him to continue developing the blind compatibility mode. thing is though if he'd actually consulted the gamers list on what we needed or wanted in the first place he would have been able to design it so it would be both fun and easy to play, and would probably get a lot more sales. so i actually have very little simpathy for the game not selling as well as he'd hoped because he didn't design it well for us, he just went ahead and did what he thought we needed. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4
even with window eyes alex the same problems exist the game is cool but having it menu-based would be better but it is a visually appealing game of course originally designed for the sighted and i do applaud the developer for at least considering us :) On 22 Dec 2008, at 15:02, alex wallis wrote: hi list. please forgive me not replying in the smugglers 4 threads, but because of my annoying jaws issue, I couldn't select the subject line in a digest in order to copy it so i could paste it into my subject of this message. anyway, I think its great the smugglers 4 developer is trying to make his game accessible, however i just wish he had consulted us on what we as blind players need. as although i like this type of game, there are several issues with it that for me just make the game a lot of hard work to play, in fact i've pritty much given up playing it.#] firstly the biggest headake is for a jfw user the combat screen when your ship is fighting just looks a total mess, its really hard to make sense of it and you can't easily find options as they are berried in bits of random text about your ship, or some times split over several lines. my second big headake is the fact that he's just tried to adapt the interface a little bit, i'm sure we all agree it would be a lot easier to play if we had a conventional menu system we could use with the pc cursor, and maybe even the ability to press letters to activate particular options. i'm playing on a laptop, and its probably because of the amount of cursoring around i have to do as well as simulated mouse clicks that just annoys me, it can some times take me 15 or 20 minutes just to beat one ship. mostly because after each action i do like firing a gun i have to cursor down to the bottom of the screen, simulate a mouse click with caps and number 8 to click ok, and then move back up the screen and try to find the fire option again, and then if i have 1 point left over i have to waste time hunting around the screen for the end turn option. your arms can get quite tired when doing a lot of simulated mouse clicks lol. all in all i find this game frustrating to play and i wouldn't recommend anyone to buy it untill either its interface is radicly altered for us, or neils designs a conventional menu system for us. i wrote to him explaining my issues, and he wrote back complaining sales of his game hadn't been as good as he'd hoped so it would make it harder for him to continue developing the blind compatibility mode. thing is though if he'd actually consulted the gamers list on what we needed or wanted in the first place he would have been able to design it so it would be both fun and easy to play, and would probably get a lot more sales. so i actually have very little simpathy for the game not selling as well as he'd hoped because he didn't design it well for us, he just went ahead and did what he thought we needed. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4
Just a point. Using Hal, and sim mouse clicks i find the game interface incredibly easy to use, and the game extremely! fun. There are none of the layout issues you describe at all, I just get a list readable in virtual focus mode, much the same way Smugglers 3 worked. i do not blame niels. various people, - myself included, said how easy to play smugglers 3 was, and the interface was to use. sinse actually both game interfaces are graphically very similar, and work in a similar layout fashion (with pop up windows etc), the seemingly only accessibility option in altering the smugglers 4 interface has been the labeling of graphics, and insertions of text boxes to replace the animation sequences. i have no idea of the technical reason why jfw runs into so much trouble with the interface, and as I said i think it's a sad thing, and something which deffinately should be worked upon, but blaiming Niels for this is imho incredibly unfiar. He was not setting out to create an accessible game, he did not write a game with access changes in mind, it just so happened that smugglers 3 was found to be playable. He could have quite easily turned around and said hard luck, smugglers 4 uses graphics and left things at that. instead he's been putting a lot of work in, - particularly in the combat sequences. It would be great if all developers of mainstream games, which afterall is what smugglers 4 is when you come down to it, would start from scratch on accessibility matters. As it is, I'm very impressed by Niels' adaptation, and I really hope scripting and further improvements can be made to fix the jaws related issues, but blaiming Niels for those issues is entirely unreasonable. Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4
My thoughts exactly will, though as I said, the good thing is that Niels is stil willing to put the time in anyway, with for example changes to the curser and travel screen as in the last version. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Will Lomas lomaswill...@googlemail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4 even with window eyes alex the same problems exist the game is cool but having it menu-based would be better but it is a visually appealing game of course originally designed for the sighted and i do applaud the developer for at least considering us :) On 22 Dec 2008, at 15:02, alex wallis wrote: hi list. please forgive me not replying in the smugglers 4 threads, but because of my annoying jaws issue, I couldn't select the subject line in a digest in order to copy it so i could paste it into my subject of this message. anyway, I think its great the smugglers 4 developer is trying to make his game accessible, however i just wish he had consulted us on what we as blind players need. as although i like this type of game, there are several issues with it that for me just make the game a lot of hard work to play, in fact i've pritty much given up playing it.#] firstly the biggest headake is for a jfw user the combat screen when your ship is fighting just looks a total mess, its really hard to make sense of it and you can't easily find options as they are berried in bits of random text about your ship, or some times split over several lines. my second big headake is the fact that he's just tried to adapt the interface a little bit, i'm sure we all agree it would be a lot easier to play if we had a conventional menu system we could use with the pc cursor, and maybe even the ability to press letters to activate particular options. i'm playing on a laptop, and its probably because of the amount of cursoring around i have to do as well as simulated mouse clicks that just annoys me, it can some times take me 15 or 20 minutes just to beat one ship. mostly because after each action i do like firing a gun i have to cursor down to the bottom of the screen, simulate a mouse click with caps and number 8 to click ok, and then move back up the screen and try to find the fire option again, and then if i have 1 point left over i have to waste time hunting around the screen for the end turn option. your arms can get quite tired when doing a lot of simulated mouse clicks lol. all in all i find this game frustrating to play and i wouldn't recommend anyone to buy it untill either its interface is radicly altered for us, or neils designs a conventional menu system for us. i wrote to him explaining my issues, and he wrote back complaining sales of his game hadn't been as good as he'd hoped so it would make it harder for him to continue developing the blind compatibility mode. thing is though if he'd actually consulted the gamers list on what we needed or wanted in the first place he would have been able to design it so it would be both fun and easy to play, and would probably get a lot more sales. so i actually have very little simpathy for the game not selling as well as he'd hoped because he didn't design it well for us, he just went ahead and did what he thought we needed. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4
Hi, I must say that in this case I agree with Dark's assessment. I use Window-Eyes myself, and as a tip, the combat screen is a little easier to understand if you move over options word by word at first to catch everything. It works best, as the entire game does, using the mouse. I'm extremely greatful to Niels for doing what he has. He's been extremely prompt in replying to messages, resolving any access issues as soon as he can, and in general being friendly and approachable. The time required to make the game menu-based and more standard, I think, is probably pretty lengthy, and could be better spent adding new features and tuning the game as it stands now. These're just my thoughts, as a player of both Smugglers 3 and 4. Best, Zack. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4 Just a point. Using Hal, and sim mouse clicks i find the game interface incredibly easy to use, and the game extremely! fun. There are none of the layout issues you describe at all, I just get a list readable in virtual focus mode, much the same way Smugglers 3 worked. i do not blame niels. various people, - myself included, said how easy to play smugglers 3 was, and the interface was to use. sinse actually both game interfaces are graphically very similar, and work in a similar layout fashion (with pop up windows etc), the seemingly only accessibility option in altering the smugglers 4 interface has been the labeling of graphics, and insertions of text boxes to replace the animation sequences. i have no idea of the technical reason why jfw runs into so much trouble with the interface, and as I said i think it's a sad thing, and something which deffinately should be worked upon, but blaiming Niels for this is imho incredibly unfiar. He was not setting out to create an accessible game, he did not write a game with access changes in mind, it just so happened that smugglers 3 was found to be playable. He could have quite easily turned around and said hard luck, smugglers 4 uses graphics and left things at that. instead he's been putting a lot of work in, - particularly in the combat sequences. It would be great if all developers of mainstream games, which afterall is what smugglers 4 is when you come down to it, would start from scratch on accessibility matters. As it is, I'm very impressed by Niels' adaptation, and I really hope scripting and further improvements can be made to fix the jaws related issues, but blaiming Niels for those issues is entirely unreasonable. Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4
The sad part about all of this is, there really aren't that many problems with playing smugglers using JFW. I play just fine, and I know a couple of people who have no problem with it as well. If its really that much of a problem you can always fall back on hot spot clicker, but I don't even need to use that. you just have to get used to the way things read out. Its done line by line, so obviously you aren't going to have whole words straight across, like fire your missiles, etc. It's going yo be fire on one line, then on the nest line your, then the next line missiles. You just have to get used to what word links to what and use any of the words in the technique to click it. Its really not that bad once you get used to it. -- From: dark d...@xgam.org Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 9:00 AM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4 Just a point. Using Hal, and sim mouse clicks i find the game interface incredibly easy to use, and the game extremely! fun. There are none of the layout issues you describe at all, I just get a list readable in virtual focus mode, much the same way Smugglers 3 worked. i do not blame niels. various people, - myself included, said how easy to play smugglers 3 was, and the interface was to use. sinse actually both game interfaces are graphically very similar, and work in a similar layout fashion (with pop up windows etc), the seemingly only accessibility option in altering the smugglers 4 interface has been the labeling of graphics, and insertions of text boxes to replace the animation sequences. i have no idea of the technical reason why jfw runs into so much trouble with the interface, and as I said i think it's a sad thing, and something which deffinately should be worked upon, but blaiming Niels for this is imho incredibly unfiar. He was not setting out to create an accessible game, he did not write a game with access changes in mind, it just so happened that smugglers 3 was found to be playable. He could have quite easily turned around and said hard luck, smugglers 4 uses graphics and left things at that. instead he's been putting a lot of work in, - particularly in the combat sequences. It would be great if all developers of mainstream games, which afterall is what smugglers 4 is when you come down to it, would start from scratch on accessibility matters. As it is, I'm very impressed by Niels' adaptation, and I really hope scripting and further improvements can be made to fix the jaws related issues, but blaiming Niels for those issues is entirely unreasonable. Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4
I agree, to blame the developer of this game for it not working smoothly with jaws is a little nutty. I think with some more moderate scripting, the game could be made playable without too much difficulty by jaws, but I myself don't enjoy poking around trying to find something on the screen, I am big on easy and intuitive interfaces, as anyone who has played my games can attest. I took a stab at writing some jaws scripts for smugglers, but even with the scripts, some information was seemingly impossible to read, but that is more likely a failure on my part, not the games. I have never used hal, so not sure what it is doing differently, but if it makes the game easy to play without extra coding, it is definately doing more than jaws is so far. When I heard Neals was developing some features that would make his game accessible, I went ahead and bought it, not sure if I would like it or not, because it didn't matter if I liked it. I wanted to support this effort, so maybe other mainstream game developers would see us blinks are willing to support their efforts to include us. I am a jaws scripting hobbyist at best at this point, so maybe with a more advanced scripter it would be possible to get the game working smoothly. If anyone knows a person out there that might be into giving it a shot, tell them to go for it. In the end, no matter the results, Neals has gone much farther in trying to make his game accessible than almost all the other mainstream game developers out there, and for that he deserves our thanks. Later taters, Che --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4
hi alex. in one hand, yes, the game is sometimes realy difficulty and anoying to play with jaws. but if you practice that this won't be that hard. i'm playing it on my laptop tow, and i don't have tow many irritating problems, cause doing that select, press caps +8, select the word, press caps+8, and so on, it turns into almost automaticaly and i personaly don't have tow many troubles actualy, even with 1.0i... on the other hand, it is fantastic that this guy is doing that with the game, i admire he for doing that, and even with abite of work that you need put it to work with jaws, i can play it fine. i spend some hours if necessary learning how to play it in a simple way, cause this developer is rare in the sighted developers that think in us and try to make some games accessible. my recomendations, is that you train and train, with lets say 2 or 3 days playing it some hours, it don't will be much hard. hope that helps, and if i can help you giving some suggestion, i'll be glad to do that. Best regards, Matheus -Mensagem original- De: alex wallis alexwallis...@googlemail.com Para: gamers@audyssey.org Data: Segunda, 22 de Dezembro de 2008 15:02 Assunto: [Audyssey] thoughts on smugglers 4 hi list. please forgive me not replying in the smugglers 4 threads, but because of my annoying jaws issue, I couldn't select the subject line in a digest in order to copy it so i could paste it into my subject of this message. anyway, I think its great the smugglers 4 developer is trying to make his game accessible, however i just wish he had consulted us on what we as blind players need. as although i like this type of game, there are several issues with it that for me just make the game a lot of hard work to play, in fact i've pritty much given up playing it.#] firstly the biggest headake is for a jfw user the combat screen when your ship is fighting just looks a total mess, its really hard to make sense of it and you can't easily find options as they are berried in bits of random text about your ship, or so me times split over several lines. my second big headake is the fact that he's just tried to adapt the interface a little bit, i'm sure we all agree it would be a lot easier to play if we had a conventional menu system we could use with the pc cursor, and maybe even the ability to pres s letters to activate particular options. i'm playing on a laptop, and its probably because of the amount of cursoring around i have to do as well as simulated mouse clicks that just annoys me, it can some times take me 15 or 20 minutes just to beat one ship. mostly because after each action i do like firing a gun i have to cursor down to the bottom of the screen, simulate a mouse click with caps and number 8 to click ok, and then move back up the screen and try to find the fire option again, and then if i have 1 point left over i have to waste time hunting around the screen for the end turn option. your arms can get quite tired when doing a lot of simulated mouse clicks lol. all in all i find this game frustrating to play and i wouldn't recommend anyone to buy it untill either its interface is radicly altered for us, or neils designs a conventional menu system for us. i wrote to him explaining my issues, and he wrote back complaining sales of his game hadn't been as good as he'd hoped so it would make it harder for him to continue developing the blind compatibility mode. thing is though if he'd actually consulted t he gamers list on what we needed or wanted in the first place he would have been able to design it so it would be both fun and easy to play, and would probably get a lot more sales. so i actually have very little simpathy for the game not selling as w ell as he'd hoped because he didn't design it well for us, he just went ahead and did what he thought we needed. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.6/1540 - Release Date: 8/7/2008 06:33 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
