Re: [Audyssey] Bouncing hopping and stopping
Dark, the problem is that these things require physics. surface friction, speed, gravity (if you're in the air) etc. Most bilnd people have never studied physics, and some of them don't even bother to look at easy premade physics functions. So this is really the main sisue. I have been looking through racing game programming tutorials etc so I can learn the physics I never took at school, but haven't had time to code anything simple yet. hth On 4/21/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi. Once again I've been playing a game people will know, the very original super marrio brothers game, (actually the version released on the Snes with super mario all stars which has improved graphics, sfx and music, but the mechanics and game are stil just the same as the Nes). One factor which (having not played marrio for a while), I am having to get used to again, is Marrio's less than precise jumps. not only are his jumps analogue, eg, you get more distance with a run up, and more distance depending upon how long you hold the button, but also, Mario is not the most reliable at stopping or controlling his moves in the air. When bouncing off enemies, or jumping a gap with a run, I'm having to re-learn the way you need to hit the opposite direction to stop marrio skidding along. While playing marrio, I found myself trying to considder which elements could be shown in an audio game. Pits of varying distance? no problem. ledges of variable hight, --- -possibly slightly more complex but doable. Enemy position walking at you, falling on you etc? for most enemies no trouble (though the clockwise or anticlockwise swinging fire chains in bowser's castles may be problematic). however, one element is stil not doable, namely the fact that Mario needs to take just as much account of things vertically above or below, and that his chief method of killing enemies, jumping up above them and stomping on their heads, would not really be easy to do in audio. However, one element which seems completely missing from any and all audio games, is this business of stopping distance. Whether it's sarah, Angela carter or the agent in shades of doom, everyone seems to be able to stop on an instant, whether their running along or jumping. This doesn't just count 2D games either, as in many 3D or first person games, moves like sliding sideways to avoid attacks or ducking and rolling are very common. Then, there is the question of surface. Ice climbers, Mega man, Marrio 2, and about a hundred other platform games (including original dokey kong if I remember correctly), employ various factors to change your characters stopping distance or walking speed. These could be conveyer belts moving in one direction or another (even some walk along beat em ups like double dragon and streets of rage had these), ice to make you slip further when jumping or not stop so quickly when walking, winds or fans blowing you about and making you do longer jumps, quick sand or mud to slow you down, turning cog wheels to walk or jump on (some of the most evil ledge jumping puzles I know in turrican or castle vania involved these). The same goes for 3D games too, indeed in tenchu stealth assassin, you had gravel which you had to walk tthrough softly to avoid making a noise, while you could walk at normal speed on grass. I find it quite strange that racing games like topspeed have done a lot for stopping distance and different surface, but none of the audio 2D or 3d games as yet have. it just strikes me this is a very easy factor to play with in audio, --- simply by altering the sound of your characters' steps, and I find it a litle perplexing as to why nobody has yet, which is why I'm bringing it up here. Obviously, if mota's mechanics and traps are already designed so this sort of thing won't fit in fair enough, but maybe anyone who is working on a 2D or 3D action game could considder this. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Bouncing hopping and stopping
While I see your point here Oriol, I'm less certain it actually requires that! much realistic physics at all the way a racing game would. Take a game like ice climbers. You jump about five times your characters' own hight but only one block to either side. You have three basic functions, walking, jumping and swinging your hammer and that is it, sinse the game is incredibly simple, in fact I doubt there is an overall physics engine there at all. yet, it uses the conveyer belts idea, as well as ledges moving at different speeds to create complex situations as a challenge to the player, simply I believe by tracking different movement wrates wrelative to the characters' walking speed. I'm not suggesting a full blown physics engine here, just that monkeying around with surfaces your char walks on might be a fun addition to games. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Bouncing hopping and stopping
Monkey Business has quicksand to drag you down. It has high grass but I don't remember if that slows you down or if it just hides the coins. Dean - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 11:46 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Bouncing hopping and stopping | Hi. | | Once again I've been playing a game people will know, the very original super marrio brothers game, (actually the version released on the Snes with super mario all stars which has improved graphics, sfx and music, but the mechanics and game are stil just the same as the Nes). | | One factor which (having not played marrio for a while), I am having to get used to again, is Marrio's less than precise jumps. not only are his jumps analogue, eg, you get more distance with a run up, and more distance depending upon how long you hold the button, but also, Mario is not the most reliable at stopping or controlling his moves in the air. | | When bouncing off enemies, or jumping a gap with a run, I'm having to re-learn the way you need to hit the opposite direction to stop marrio skidding along. | | While playing marrio, I found myself trying to considder which elements could be shown in an audio game. | | Pits of varying distance? no problem. ledges of variable hight, --- -possibly slightly more complex but doable. Enemy position walking at you, falling on you etc? for most enemies no trouble (though the clockwise or anticlockwise swinging fire chains in bowser's castles may be problematic). | | however, one element is stil not doable, namely the fact that Mario needs to take just as much account of things vertically above or below, and that his chief method of killing enemies, jumping up above them and stomping on their heads, would not really be easy to do in audio. | | However, one element which seems completely missing from any and all audio games, is this business of stopping distance. | | Whether it's sarah, Angela carter or the agent in shades of doom, everyone seems to be able to stop on an instant, whether their running along or jumping. | | This doesn't just count 2D games either, as in many 3D or first person games, moves like sliding sideways to avoid attacks or ducking and rolling are very common. | | Then, there is the question of surface. Ice climbers, Mega man, Marrio 2, and about a hundred other platform games (including original dokey kong if I remember correctly), employ various factors to change your characters stopping distance or walking speed. | | These could be conveyer belts moving in one direction or another (even some walk along beat em ups like double dragon and streets of rage had these), ice to make you slip further when jumping or not stop so quickly when walking, winds or fans blowing you about and making you do longer jumps, quick sand or mud to slow you down, turning cog wheels to walk or jump on (some of the most evil ledge jumping puzles I know in turrican or castle vania involved these). | | The same goes for 3D games too, indeed in tenchu stealth assassin, you had gravel which you had to walk tthrough softly to avoid making a noise, while you could walk at normal speed on grass. | | I find it quite strange that racing games like topspeed have done a lot for stopping distance and different surface, but none of the audio 2D or 3d games as yet have. | | it just strikes me this is a very easy factor to play with in audio, --- simply by altering the sound of your characters' steps, and I find it a litle perplexing as to why nobody has yet, which is why I'm bringing it up here. | | Obviously, if mota's mechanics and traps are already designed so this sort of thing won't fit in fair enough, but maybe anyone who is working on a 2D or 3D action game could considder this. | | Beware the Grue! | | Dark. | --- | Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org | If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. | You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at | http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. | All messages are archived and can be searched and read at | http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. | If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, | please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Bouncing hopping and stopping
Hi Oriol, Yes, that's exactly the problem in a nutshell. As you correctly pointed out most amateur developers, blind and sighted alike, don't have the background math and physics skills required to add such a degree of realism to their games. Even if you do have the skills it is just one more complexity you need to worry about when programming. So that's basically why you don't see things like this in Q9, Super Liam, Mysteries of the Ancients, etc. On 4/21/11, Oriol Gómez ogomez@gmail.com wrote: Dark, the problem is that these things require physics. surface friction, speed, gravity (if you're in the air) etc. Most blind people have never studied physics, and some of them don't even bother to look at easy premade physics functions. So this is really the main issue. I have been looking through racing game programming tutorials etc so I can learn the physics I never took at school, but haven't had time to code anything simple yet. hth --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Bouncing hopping and stopping
Indeed, I'd forgotten about the quick sand, though generally I find monkey business so problematic in terms of navigation i don't play it much. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Dean Masters dwmast...@earthlink.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 2:46 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Bouncing hopping and stopping Monkey Business has quicksand to drag you down. It has high grass but I don't remember if that slows you down or if it just hides the coins. Dean - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 11:46 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Bouncing hopping and stopping | Hi. | | Once again I've been playing a game people will know, the very original super marrio brothers game, (actually the version released on the Snes with super mario all stars which has improved graphics, sfx and music, but the mechanics and game are stil just the same as the Nes). | | One factor which (having not played marrio for a while), I am having to get used to again, is Marrio's less than precise jumps. not only are his jumps analogue, eg, you get more distance with a run up, and more distance depending upon how long you hold the button, but also, Mario is not the most reliable at stopping or controlling his moves in the air. | | When bouncing off enemies, or jumping a gap with a run, I'm having to re-learn the way you need to hit the opposite direction to stop marrio skidding along. | | While playing marrio, I found myself trying to considder which elements could be shown in an audio game. | | Pits of varying distance? no problem. ledges of variable hight, --- -possibly slightly more complex but doable. Enemy position walking at you, falling on you etc? for most enemies no trouble (though the clockwise or anticlockwise swinging fire chains in bowser's castles may be problematic). | | however, one element is stil not doable, namely the fact that Mario needs to take just as much account of things vertically above or below, and that his chief method of killing enemies, jumping up above them and stomping on their heads, would not really be easy to do in audio. | | However, one element which seems completely missing from any and all audio games, is this business of stopping distance. | | Whether it's sarah, Angela carter or the agent in shades of doom, everyone seems to be able to stop on an instant, whether their running along or jumping. | | This doesn't just count 2D games either, as in many 3D or first person games, moves like sliding sideways to avoid attacks or ducking and rolling are very common. | | Then, there is the question of surface. Ice climbers, Mega man, Marrio 2, and about a hundred other platform games (including original dokey kong if I remember correctly), employ various factors to change your characters stopping distance or walking speed. | | These could be conveyer belts moving in one direction or another (even some walk along beat em ups like double dragon and streets of rage had these), ice to make you slip further when jumping or not stop so quickly when walking, winds or fans blowing you about and making you do longer jumps, quick sand or mud to slow you down, turning cog wheels to walk or jump on (some of the most evil ledge jumping puzles I know in turrican or castle vania involved these). | | The same goes for 3D games too, indeed in tenchu stealth assassin, you had gravel which you had to walk tthrough softly to avoid making a noise, while you could walk at normal speed on grass. | | I find it quite strange that racing games like topspeed have done a lot for stopping distance and different surface, but none of the audio 2D or 3d games as yet have. | | it just strikes me this is a very easy factor to play with in audio, --- simply by altering the sound of your characters' steps, and I find it a litle perplexing as to why nobody has yet, which is why I'm bringing it up here. | | Obviously, if mota's mechanics and traps are already designed so this sort of thing won't fit in fair enough, but maybe anyone who is working on a 2D or 3D action game could considder this. | | Beware the Grue! | | Dark. | --- | Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org | If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. | You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at | http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. | All messages are archived and can be searched and read at | http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. | If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, | please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org
