Re: [Audyssey] making accessible games for current gen consoles.
Hi Michael, Michael wrote: They could create the console and charge less to develope for it, but lose their investment shirts if tomorrow some other company comes out with a console with better whatever. Company X could release their console with Tekken 5000, and wipe out our console in a day. My reply: Yes, and that's exactly a big reason Atari went belly up in the 1980's. When Atari got started they were pretty much the only console on the market, but it wasn't long before Coleco, Nintendo, and Sega blew them out of the water. I know from personal experience when the Coleco came on the market all of the Coleco version of the games such as Donkey Kong, Mouse Trap, Smirfs, Zaxxon, etc had much better graphics than the Atari 2600 so I scrapped my Atari and switched to Coleco. To add insult to injury the Coleco also came with an Atari adapter that you could plug into the unit and play Atari 2600 games in addition to the Coleco games. There was no way Atari could compete with a console like that. Oh, they tried. They released the 7800 which had decent graphics for the time like the Coleco, but by then Nintendo had put their original console out and Atari was toast. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making accessible games for current gen consoles.
Hi Michael, Michael wrote: Wouldn't it be alot less expensive to just make Live! CD's the way they're doing with Linux these days? Pop a disk in the drive and boot up the computer, and you're running an entire environment in memory. No disks, maybe a floppy or thumb-drive to save games. My reply: Its a good idea, but I can foresee some problems with it though. To begin with if you have ever run the live cds available through Vinux, Ubuntu, Debian, Suse, etc they run extremely slow from a cd. That's because you have to essentially take an entire operating system and decompress it into memory. It is fine for doing installs, doing live demos, etc but it is not going to be all that great for gaming because the OS itself will drag the system performence down. However, cutting it down to a barebones OS with just Orca, the Gnome desktop, shell, and game APIs like OpenAL, SDL, SFML, etc would certainly help as there wouldn't be as much that needs to be decompressed into memory. Another thing is you talk about using a floppy. to be honest those things are about useless now days. No remotely accessible game will even fit on one. So we are definitely looking at a thumb drive, external hard drive, or some other portable media that can take a few gigs of memory. Michael wrote: Once you had the operating system written to use the memory and accessibility hardware, then you could write games for it, and churn them out like popcorn, or make the CD images available for download. My reply: that's the other problem with this idea. The majority of blind developers use Visual Basic which is a Windows specific programming language, and several others are moving to BGT which also is currently a Windows only technology. In order to program in Linux it is pretty much assumed you have some skill with C or cC++, and know how to use the GNU compilers. The only other alternative to that is to use Python 2.6 and PyGame which is alright, but PyGame is certainly no DirectX. It is fine for some games, but it isn't going to be as good as accessing those game APIs directly via C/C++. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making accessible games for current gen consoles.
Hi Yohandy, Cheaper yes. Affordable no. You have to understand that Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo have strict licenses for their game consoles that really cost up the butt to get. Any game company that has enough money to do it can, but let's face it blind game developers don't have the kind of money to invest in those SDKs, licenses, platforms, etc because there is a certain expectation that you will be making several thousand dollars on each and every title you release for the console. We don't have that kind of mass distribution, and at most a blind game developer will make somewhere between $5,000 to $10,000 on a good game. Any mainstream developer can and will make at least 10 times that amount. That is why the royalties are high. On 2/14/11, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote: Is it actually that expensive? There are smaller developers programming for the platform. Look at PSN games for example. I believe some of those games were made by only a few people. could developing a smaller game for PSN or xbox market place be cheaper than making a full-blown disc-based game? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making accessible games for current gen consoles.
Hi Yohandy, Not in this life time. You have to understand how these companies work. Game consoles like the XBox, Play station, Nintendo DS, Nintendo Wii, etc are exclusive and propriatary platforms. As a result they are not just going to hand out the tools, software development kits, and system specs to just anyone who asks for them. They pretty much charge you for everything. They charge you for the development kits, charge you for the development tools, and charge you royalties for using their platform. The net costs for all of this is usually between $25,000 and $50,000 per title. Plus everything you write has to be approved by a board that makes sure the title meets all their standards and specifications. All of this adds up to really big money for the console manufacturers, and pretty much rules out any and all casual development on the platform. How do I know this. I did check it out. Back about 5 years ago my wife and I purchased a Playstation II. Once I got it I thought I'd call Sony and find out what it would cost to get a development kit and port my games to the Play Station. Nothing doing. Starting cost just to create the game was going to cost $25,000 for the tools/development kits, and the games I wrote would have to be approved by a board at Sony Entertainment. When I explained that these were accessible blind friendly games, no graphics, etc they said they wouldn't be interested in that type of game and that was that. No money to do it, and because it didn't meet there polacies and requirements they didn't even want to sell me a development kit, license, and so on because my game was for a specialized market. So I said forget it. The only console that might be affordable for us is the XBox 360, and its not without its problems either. When Microsoft launched the XBox 360 in 2007 they included the .NET Framework and the XNA Framework. In other words they created an open standard for the platform for quick and easy cross-platform development between Windows and XBox. While pricing is still steep its nothing like the Play Station. The problem is, though, that the XNA Framework has some massive accessibility issues. For example, XAct the tool used to compile soundbanks, wavbanks, mix 3d audio, and all that is totally and absolutely not screen reader friendly. So targeting an XBox, even if you can afford it, would be difficult because someone like myself could not do it independantly. I'd litterally have to higher a sighted developer to do the audio work for the game, create the various soundbanks and wavbanks, setup audio properties, etc costing me even more money in the long run. I've been complaining to Microsoft about this problem for going on three years, and it goes in one ear and out the other. Again a no go. HTH On 2/14/11, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote: I just had a thought. Couldn't a blind developer program a game for the PS3 or Xbox 360? I would think that Microsoft or Sony would license their tools to any dev wishing to program on their platform. Has anyone looked into this at all? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making accessible games for current gen consoles.
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 11:45:34AM -0500, Thomas Ward wrote: that's the other problem with this idea. The majority of blind developers use Visual Basic which is a Windows specific programming language, and several others are moving to BGT which also is currently a Windows only technology. [My Reply:] Hmmmn. I'd also heard that Visual BASIC had been ported to Linux, as well as heard from an uncle that Visual BASIC was on the way out. He never mentioned what was replacing it, though. All in all, I never really gave much thought to what languages were in use, as what the programs looked like on-screen wouldn't be all that important to blind users like me .grins. Only the audio output would matter, unless I had to use a mouse. If you're basing the OS on the Linux kernel, though, you could compile the programs from just about any type of code, as you're mo longer writing for Windows. Eh. What do I know. I only really know a modicum of shell scripting, myself. Michael -- Linux User: 177869 # Powered By: Intel # http://rivensight.dyndns.org Postings Copyrighted 2010-2011 by: Michael Ferranti --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making accessible games for current gen consoles.
Am I missing something, and maybe not looking at it right or not understanding something, but don't these companies realize that if they made these programs available to more developers, and at a lower cost, the number of games available for their systems would vastly increase?, and so would their income? I'm not talking specifically about making games playable by the blind, either. If I wanted to develop games for, well, whoever, that could be played on a game console, if there were fewer restrictions and less of a cost to me, and how many other potential game developers, the money would be coming in even faster to the console designers and sellers. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] making accessible games for current gen consoles. Hi Yohandy, Not in this life time. You have to understand how these companies work. Game consoles like the XBox, Play station, Nintendo DS, Nintendo Wii, etc are exclusive and propriatary platforms. As a result they are not just going to hand out the tools, software development kits, and system specs to just anyone who asks for them. They pretty much charge you for everything. They charge you for the development kits, charge you for the development tools, and charge you royalties for using their platform. The net costs for all of this is usually between $25,000 and $50,000 per title. Plus everything you write has to be approved by a board that makes sure the title meets all their standards and specifications. All of this adds up to really big money for the console manufacturers, and pretty much rules out any and all casual development on the platform. How do I know this. I did check it out. Back about 5 years ago my wife and I purchased a Playstation II. Once I got it I thought I'd call Sony and find out what it would cost to get a development kit and port my games to the Play Station. Nothing doing. Starting cost just to create the game was going to cost $25,000 for the tools/development kits, and the games I wrote would have to be approved by a board at Sony Entertainment. When I explained that these were accessible blind friendly games, no graphics, etc they said they wouldn't be interested in that type of game and that was that. No money to do it, and because it didn't meet there polacies and requirements they didn't even want to sell me a development kit, license, and so on because my game was for a specialized market. So I said forget it. The only console that might be affordable for us is the XBox 360, and its not without its problems either. When Microsoft launched the XBox 360 in 2007 they included the .NET Framework and the XNA Framework. In other words they created an open standard for the platform for quick and easy cross-platform development between Windows and XBox. While pricing is still steep its nothing like the Play Station. The problem is, though, that the XNA Framework has some massive accessibility issues. For example, XAct the tool used to compile soundbanks, wavbanks, mix 3d audio, and all that is totally and absolutely not screen reader friendly. So targeting an XBox, even if you can afford it, would be difficult because someone like myself could not do it independantly. I'd litterally have to higher a sighted developer to do the audio work for the game, create the various soundbanks and wavbanks, setup audio properties, etc costing me even more money in the long run. I've been complaining to Microsoft about this problem for going on three years, and it goes in one ear and out the other. Again a no go. HTH On 2/14/11, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote: I just had a thought. Couldn't a blind developer program a game for the PS3 or Xbox 360? I would think that Microsoft or Sony would license their tools to any dev wishing to program on their platform. Has anyone looked into this at all? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org
Re: [Audyssey] making accessible games for current gen consoles.
well I think we will have to build our own console or something. I am still on the idea of the game station obviously it whould have to be modified, in particular if it could just use existing hardware etc that would rock. I have an old amd 1.8ghz which has a dieing graphics card and a couple other things. If I pull those out, load linux or whatever on this it may even have an oem of win xp with it then in theory I should be able to do whatever. At 06:21 a.m. 16/02/2011, you wrote: Hi Yohandy, Not in this life time. You have to understand how these companies work. Game consoles like the XBox, Play station, Nintendo DS, Nintendo Wii, etc are exclusive and propriatary platforms. As a result they are not just going to hand out the tools, software development kits, and system specs to just anyone who asks for them. They pretty much charge you for everything. They charge you for the development kits, charge you for the development tools, and charge you royalties for using their platform. The net costs for all of this is usually between $25,000 and $50,000 per title. Plus everything you write has to be approved by a board that makes sure the title meets all their standards and specifications. All of this adds up to really big money for the console manufacturers, and pretty much rules out any and all casual development on the platform. How do I know this. I did check it out. Back about 5 years ago my wife and I purchased a Playstation II. Once I got it I thought I'd call Sony and find out what it would cost to get a development kit and port my games to the Play Station. Nothing doing. Starting cost just to create the game was going to cost $25,000 for the tools/development kits, and the games I wrote would have to be approved by a board at Sony Entertainment. When I explained that these were accessible blind friendly games, no graphics, etc they said they wouldn't be interested in that type of game and that was that. No money to do it, and because it didn't meet there polacies and requirements they didn't even want to sell me a development kit, license, and so on because my game was for a specialized market. So I said forget it. The only console that might be affordable for us is the XBox 360, and its not without its problems either. When Microsoft launched the XBox 360 in 2007 they included the .NET Framework and the XNA Framework. In other words they created an open standard for the platform for quick and easy cross-platform development between Windows and XBox. While pricing is still steep its nothing like the Play Station. The problem is, though, that the XNA Framework has some massive accessibility issues. For example, XAct the tool used to compile soundbanks, wavbanks, mix 3d audio, and all that is totally and absolutely not screen reader friendly. So targeting an XBox, even if you can afford it, would be difficult because someone like myself could not do it independantly. I'd litterally have to higher a sighted developer to do the audio work for the game, create the various soundbanks and wavbanks, setup audio properties, etc costing me even more money in the long run. I've been complaining to Microsoft about this problem for going on three years, and it goes in one ear and out the other. Again a no go. HTH On 2/14/11, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote: I just had a thought. Couldn't a blind developer program a game for the PS3 or Xbox 360? I would think that Microsoft or Sony would license their tools to any dev wishing to program on their platform. Has anyone looked into this at all? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send
Re: [Audyssey] making accessible games for current gen consoles.
We already have the console. Just not many games as could be built for it. And what is it you ask? hmm, PC! Building a condole player for as many blind as would use it. Would cost more then it would to by a already on the market one. 1. design of console. 2. Builder for said console. 3. Games built for console. 4. Better sell a lot because there is enough work for 20 and about five years. at a total cost of starting off $5000 to $15000 I still think that is cheap At 04:58 PM 2/15/2011, you wrote: well I think we will have to build our own console or something. I am still on the idea of the game station obviously it whould have to be modified, in particular if it could just use existing hardware etc that would rock. I have an old amd 1.8ghz which has a dieing graphics card and a couple other things. If I pull those out, load linux or whatever on this it may even have an oem of win xp with it then in theory I should be able to do whatever. At 06:21 a.m. 16/02/2011, you wrote: Hi Yohandy, Not in this life time. You have to understand how these companies work. Game consoles like the XBox, Play station, Nintendo DS, Nintendo Wii, etc are exclusive and propriatary platforms. As a result they are not just going to hand out the tools, software development kits, and system specs to just anyone who asks for them. They pretty much charge you for everything. They charge you for the development kits, charge you for the development tools, and charge you royalties for using their platform. The net costs for all of this is usually between $25,000 and $50,000 per title. Plus everything you write has to be approved by a board that makes sure the title meets all their standards and specifications. All of this adds up to really big money for the console manufacturers, and pretty much rules out any and all casual development on the platform. How do I know this. I did check it out. Back about 5 years ago my wife and I purchased a Playstation II. Once I got it I thought I'd call Sony and find out what it would cost to get a development kit and port my games to the Play Station. Nothing doing. Starting cost just to create the game was going to cost $25,000 for the tools/development kits, and the games I wrote would have to be approved by a board at Sony Entertainment. When I explained that these were accessible blind friendly games, no graphics, etc they said they wouldn't be interested in that type of game and that was that. No money to do it, and because it didn't meet there polacies and requirements they didn't even want to sell me a development kit, license, and so on because my game was for a specialized market. So I said forget it. The only console that might be affordable for us is the XBox 360, and its not without its problems either. When Microsoft launched the XBox 360 in 2007 they included the .NET Framework and the XNA Framework. In other words they created an open standard for the platform for quick and easy cross-platform development between Windows and XBox. While pricing is still steep its nothing like the Play Station. The problem is, though, that the XNA Framework has some massive accessibility issues. For example, XAct the tool used to compile soundbanks, wavbanks, mix 3d audio, and all that is totally and absolutely not screen reader friendly. So targeting an XBox, even if you can afford it, would be difficult because someone like myself could not do it independantly. I'd litterally have to higher a sighted developer to do the audio work for the game, create the various soundbanks and wavbanks, setup audio properties, etc costing me even more money in the long run. I've been complaining to Microsoft about this problem for going on three years, and it goes in one ear and out the other. Again a no go. HTH On 2/14/11, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote: I just had a thought. Couldn't a blind developer program a game for the PS3 or Xbox 360? I would think that Microsoft or Sony would license their tools to any dev wishing to program on their platform. Has anyone looked into this at all? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the
Re: [Audyssey] making accessible games for current gen consoles.
well. my current approach would to use existing pc hardware and a linux system. One approach is to have the game station as part of the os. A more attractive approach would to make the system an all in one system. By this I mean have something like vinux on the system with the game station program on it. But also have the ability to have other things. You would use oh I don't know lotus symphony or openoffice or something for wordprocessing, maybe thunderbird for email, a couple media players to play all the old audio formats mod xm, etc maybe mp3s wavs and ogg, maybe net streaming. The advantage is then we can use mostly free software. May put some cash to get something like tt synth I think thats cheap about 30 bucks. Then design the game station system as a program and sell it for linux or have it as a seperate something not sure. Then again if we did it that way we would have to make it for windows to, and then that would be a bit of an issue. I just like the idea of an all in one console. If I had to pay Oh I don't know about 500 bucks for the console and I knew I was getting a computer with wordprocessers spreadsheeting and other stuff email, media and streaming, etc I'd probably buy it. Especially if it was free to upgrade all the os and other screenreader programs. If we do use the linux idea we should use vinux because its got all the accessability built in. Then all we would need would to be to include all the extra stuff. We could have I don't know the system start as the game station whatever and then you could install the disks or insert games run games play music, do business stuff email etc. But also just update and or use the os. Or have the os and just have a seperate emulater although that probably takes away the console part I have no real idea. I'd be happy to contrubute my time and cash for this, well more my time I have loads. If people think it could work then I am in. I am no programmer but I guess i could do voiceovers and maybe sfx though who knows I don't have any legal sfx really and none of my own really. Or the equipment. I could test things I guess and do podcasts and reviews etc. I am sure I will think of something. At 12:26 p.m. 16/02/2011, you wrote: We already have the console. Just not many games as could be built for it. And what is it you ask? hmm, PC! Building a condole player for as many blind as would use it. Would cost more then it would to by a already on the market one. 1. design of console. 2. Builder for said console. 3. Games built for console. 4. Better sell a lot because there is enough work for 20 and about five years. at a total cost of starting off $5000 to $15000 I still think that is cheap At 04:58 PM 2/15/2011, you wrote: well I think we will have to build our own console or something. I am still on the idea of the game station obviously it whould have to be modified, in particular if it could just use existing hardware etc that would rock. I have an old amd 1.8ghz which has a dieing graphics card and a couple other things. If I pull those out, load linux or whatever on this it may even have an oem of win xp with it then in theory I should be able to do whatever. At 06:21 a.m. 16/02/2011, you wrote: Hi Yohandy, Not in this life time. You have to understand how these companies work. Game consoles like the XBox, Play station, Nintendo DS, Nintendo Wii, etc are exclusive and propriatary platforms. As a result they are not just going to hand out the tools, software development kits, and system specs to just anyone who asks for them. They pretty much charge you for everything. They charge you for the development kits, charge you for the development tools, and charge you royalties for using their platform. The net costs for all of this is usually between $25,000 and $50,000 per title. Plus everything you write has to be approved by a board that makes sure the title meets all their standards and specifications. All of this adds up to really big money for the console manufacturers, and pretty much rules out any and all casual development on the platform. How do I know this. I did check it out. Back about 5 years ago my wife and I purchased a Playstation II. Once I got it I thought I'd call Sony and find out what it would cost to get a development kit and port my games to the Play Station. Nothing doing. Starting cost just to create the game was going to cost $25,000 for the tools/development kits, and the games I wrote would have to be approved by a board at Sony Entertainment. When I explained that these were accessible blind friendly games, no graphics, etc they said they wouldn't be interested in that type of game and that was that. No money to do it, and because it didn't meet there polacies and requirements they didn't even want to sell me a development kit, license, and so on because my game was for a specialized market. So I said forget it. The only console that might be affordable for us is the XBox 360,
Re: [Audyssey] making accessible games for current gen consoles.
Hi Charles, On the history channel they say that allowing allot of developers and not keeping standards on the games that were produced and distributed for their game consuls was the main down fall of Atari. What you said seems to make sence to me, but what do I know. - Original Message - Am I missing something, and maybe not looking at it right or not understanding something, but don't these companies realize that if they made these programs available to more developers, and at a lower cost, the number of games available for their systems would vastly increase?, and so would their income? I'm not talking specifically about making games playable by the blind, either. If I wanted to develop games for, well, whoever, that could be played on a game console, if there were fewer restrictions and less of a cost to me, and how many other potential game developers, the money would be coming in even faster to the console designers and sellers. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! Jim Kitchen's Inc, for games that are up to 110 percent funner to play. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making accessible games for current gen consoles.
Hi Trouble, I agree. I mean the PC seems to work pretty well now for accessible games and getting them distributed. Plus if you were going to build a system that did anything other than just play games, you would have to figure out what OS and what software and you would never make everyone happy. - Original Message - We already have the console. Just not many games as could be built for it. And what is it you ask? hmm, PC! Building a condole player for as many blind as would use it. Would cost more then it would to by a already on the market one. 1. design of console. 2. Builder for said console. 3. Games built for console. 4. Better sell a lot because there is enough work for 20 and about five years. at a total cost of starting off $5000 to $15000 I still think that is cheap Jim I'm amazed, that it works at all. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making accessible games for current gen consoles.
Hi Michael, Michael wrote: Hmmm. I'd also heard that Visual BASIC had been ported to Linux, as well as heard from an uncle that Visual BASIC was on the way out. My reply: No, Visual Basic 6 and earlier are strictly Windows technologies. Microsoft has never, nor will ever, port it to Linux, Mac OS, etc. However, VB .NET apps can in theory be ported to Mac OS, Linux, etc but it is tricky since you have to use a completely open source implamentation that isn't always 100% compatible between mono and Microsoft's framework. There is another option, and that is to use wine. I know there is a Visual Basic 6 package for Wine, that allows you to run VB 6 apps via Windows emulation on Linux, but that's not exactly a hot idea since Wine can often be as much trouble as it is worth. Anyway, you are right about Visual Basic 6 being replaced. Microsoft officially dropped the language in 2008, which means officially it is a dead language, and have replaced it with their new .NET sweit of languages like C# .NET, C++ .NET, and Visual Basic .NET. They even have a Java clone for .NET called J# .NET too. The power of the new API is that regardless if you are a C++ programmer or a Visual Basic programmer you use all the same classes, functions, and libraries. The difference between .NET languages is pretty superficial and comes down to syntax and personal preference. HTH --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making accessible games for current gen consoles.
HI Charles, I think the game industry has good reasons for keeping the prices high, and marketing the game consoles the way they do. If you remember back in the late 1970's and early 1980's Atari didn't have any restrictions on who could create games for their platform. Not surprisingly there was a huge explosion of game developers racing to produce games for the console. Many of the big name companies of today like Activision, Nintendo, etc got their start on the Atari 2600 and expanded from there. While this might sound like a good thing it was not. Atari wasn't making any money on royalties for the platform and were competing against dozens of other companies on their own platform without a lot of money coming in from sales. I don't know all the details, but I do know Atari went bankrupt and they said it was because the competition whiped them out. For example, in 1985 one of the new comers to the seen decided to release their own platform and called it the Nintendo Entertainment System. One thing that made the NES instantly more popular was a better processor, more ram, better resolution, better color graphics, etc and all of that added up to superior games. Atari who was on their 7800 series was in deep financial trouble and couldn't keep up with Nintendo. What did Nintendo do differently that Atari didn't? Simple when they put out there console they started the practice of exclusive licenses and royalties etc. If you wanted to compete with Nintendo on their platform you had to pay Nintendo big fees to port your game to their console. Obviously, it worked because Nintendo is still going strong with a long history of consoles over a 25 year period of time. Atari is ancient history. The other reason is standardization. Atari didn't have any restrictions who could develope games for their platform and I can say there were some really low -quality games for the platform. That kind of low standard compared to Nintendo's strict standards helped bury Atari. No one wanted to take the risk of buying a dud when they know Nintendo's games all have high ratings and not just any Jo Smith from nowhere can create is own game for it. Cheers! On 2/15/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Am I missing something, and maybe not looking at it right or not understanding something, but don't these companies realize that if they made these programs available to more developers, and at a lower cost, the number of games available for their systems would vastly increase?, and so would their income? I'm not talking specifically about making games playable by the blind, either. If I wanted to develop games for, well, whoever, that could be played on a game console, if there were fewer restrictions and less of a cost to me, and how many other potential game developers, the money would be coming in even faster to the console designers and sellers. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making accessible games for current gen consoles.
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 01:19:19PM -0600, Charles Rivard wrote: Am I missing something, and maybe not looking at it right or not understanding something, but don't these companies realize that if they made these programs available to more developers, and at a lower cost, the number of games available for their systems would vastly increase?, and so would their income? [My Reply:] They have to consider the shelf-life of the console, with other systems being developed. The PS2 gained market control over Nintendo, was only because Sony had a monopoly on the DVD reader hardware, and the PS2's backwards compatibility with the PS1 was a definite help. They could create the console and charge less to develope for it, but lose their investment shirts if tomorrow some other company comes out with a console with better whatever. Company X could release their console with Tekken 5000, and wipe out our console in a day. Michael -- Linux User: 177869 # Powered By: Intel # http://rivensight.dyndns.org Postings Copyrighted 2010-2011 by: Michael Ferranti --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making accessible games for current gen consoles.
Too expensive.. you're looking on thousands and thounsands of dollars to get that kind of SDK, and with one developer maybe 2, I don't know how much of a game could come out. At 01:19 PM 14/02/2011, you wrote: I just had a thought. Couldn't a blind developer program a game for the PS3 or Xbox 360? I would think that Microsoft or Sony would license their tools to any dev wishing to program on their platform. Has anyone looked into this at all? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making accessible games for current gen consoles.
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 04:19:12PM -0500, Yohandy wrote: Has anyone looked into this at all? Question is whether you want to spend however many thousands of dollars for the tools, which might not even be accessible. .grins. Michael -- Linux User: 177869 # Powered By: Intel # http://rivensight.dyndns.org Postings Copyrighted 2010-2011 by: Michael Ferranti --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making accessible games for current gen consoles.
Is it actually that expensive? There are smaller developers programming for the platform. Look at PSN games for example. I believe some of those games were made by only a few people. could developing a smaller game for PSN or xbox market place be cheaper than making a full-blown disc-based game? From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] making accessible games for current gen consoles. Too expensive.. you're looking on thousands and thounsands of dollars to get that kind of SDK, and with one developer maybe 2, I don't know how much of a game could come out. At 01:19 PM 14/02/2011, you wrote: I just had a thought. Couldn't a blind developer program a game for the PS3 or Xbox 360? I would think that Microsoft or Sony would license their tools to any dev wishing to program on their platform. Has anyone looked into this at all? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] making accessible games for current gen consoles.
Nope. Most of those games are made by companies who are at least somewhat well-known... invincible tiger, Shank, Castle Crashers, etc are all games that are made by studios who might not be well-known but at least have fifty to a hundred people in them. Invincible tiger was published by Namco, as a matter of fact. And a lot of remakes and whatnot come from the original companies... bionic commando from capcom says hi. lol. At 07:35 PM 14/02/2011, you wrote: Is it actually that expensive? There are smaller developers programming for the platform. Look at PSN games for example. I believe some of those games were made by only a few people. could developing a smaller game for PSN or xbox market place be cheaper than making a full-blown disc-based game? From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] making accessible games for current gen consoles. Too expensive.. you're looking on thousands and thounsands of dollars to get that kind of SDK, and with one developer maybe 2, I don't know how much of a game could come out. At 01:19 PM 14/02/2011, you wrote: I just had a thought. Couldn't a blind developer program a game for the PS3 or Xbox 360? I would think that Microsoft or Sony would license their tools to any dev wishing to program on their platform. Has anyone looked into this at all? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
