Re: [Audyssey] news Request
Hi, I know this is the wrong thread but I asked something about entombed--please ignore it as I hadn't yet read the entire quota of 300 or so messages before I had to delete and recreate my email account. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 10:13 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Hi Muhammed, Yes, but you have to use the DirectX 8 graphics libraries like DirectDraw. It goes without saying DirectDraw itself is ancient and most games today use Direct3D 9, 10, or 11. On 4/9/10, Muhammed Deniz muhamme...@googlemail.com wrote: Then maybe with Vb6. Jim, does graphics work on Vb6? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] news Request
Hi, Yes, indeed. I didn't say that is is, over priced, I only said that I don't have enough money, and personally I fully agree with the $800 Price, because if you looked down the list that thom gave us... OH my! 20 Thousand dollars for the Playstation SDK! But then again the big big companies like Rockstar games, or Midway, they can afford it because they make loats and loats of more money than they had to pay. We audio games developers are mostly 1-programmer-companies, which makes that even harder. And I think, but this is my personal opinion, that $800 is a really good price for a game creation toolkit, even sound encryption, which if phillip makes it like in q9, won't be as easy to hack. Also, sapi support... Well, in C++ or even in VB6 you have to creat com objects. But right out of the box, wichout even having to initialize... Also, let's think for a second how long he programs or sits in front of his Computer, to make something FOR US. I mean that is just... Well, yeah. It is awesome. And i bed it is not that easy, because if the code gets bigger and bigger and you need to change stuff around it is, quiet hard to find what you are looking for sometimes. I mean if you over comment then it is not that hard, but it takes far more time. With that all in Mind I will send this mail. - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 01:52:05 +0200 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Hi Thomas, Thank you for this long and thorough explanation. I get this question all the time, as a matter of fact. What one is paying for is not the scripting, because as Tom says there are already plenty of scripting engines out there. The scripting is merely one of many parts forming the chain that makes it, in my humble opinion, at least 10 times easier to develop an audio game than it would in C++. The statement that if one can learn BGT one can directly learn C++ as well is not true. The syntax, sure, but a language is so much more than its syntax. C++ itself has none of the advantages that BGT offers, and if you need to acquire these you'll be talking an even higher price tag and with more work on the part of the programmer as well. And for those who want to make free games, the lite version is considerably cheaper. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 11:37 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Hello Tom, Actually, $800 is a pretty fair price for a tool like BGT Pro. I think your opinion that it is over priced is do to the fact you haven't had any experience as a professional software developer. I can tell you for a fact that similar tools in the programming market would cost far more in comparison. Especially, if you begin adding up the cost for various software products. Here is some things to look at. FMOD Ex (Shareware License) $100.00 FMOD Ex (Casual License) $3,000.00 FMOD Ex (Commercial License) $6,000.00 Play Station SDK $20,000.00 Visual Studio Standard $299.00 Visual Studio Professional (without MSDN) $569 Visual Studio Professional (with MSDN) $1,299.00 Visual Studio Premium (with MSDN) $2,499.00 Just that alone can run you into thousands of dollars, and we haven't even began talking about sounds, music, and voice acting yet. Plus the fact BGT is or will be a fully qualified game engine complete with scripting, sound encryption, Sapi support, etc out of the box. If you use Visual Studio and say FMOD Ex you are going to pay more and still have to write a bunch of that stuff from scratch anyway. Plus if you want to support a special game console like Play Station Sony charges a wopping $20,000 to license their tools and libraries. So $800 isn't a bad price realistically speaking. If you are comercially selling your games you will earn back that $800 pretty quickly. MOTA grosed more than that during preordering, and I'm sure the final release will even earn more. On 4/8/10, lirin seal11...@gmail.com wrote: BTW, how many will be cost BGT? i don't know it is true or not, but i've hear something about 800$. When i am thinkinh about this price, i am trying to get a question for my ansfer. Firstly, 800$ is a dramatically price from a nightmare, i mean pro version of BGT. Why we must paying for something like that? Okay, we can only paying for a examples, but for nothing more. If i can learn BGT, i can learn a C++ language too, so, where is a target to get it? Sorry for of topic anyway. On the marked we have tools like that, maybe not for games, but we have, autohotkey, autoit, etc etc, and we have it for free. Maybe i am not a programmer, and don't know it very well, but for me it's something from
Re: [Audyssey] news Request
Really, i'm planning to right my city attack game in auto it or Bgt. But you see the thing with Bgt is that it could right more complex stuff and other tidbits. Now when I create this City attack game and give it out to the public, I don't want to here make this a demo as its gonna be a test and the actual city attack game would come out. But still, i'm not sure if I shall do it. The only problem is that I need good sounds and the like. Though one thing that I don't like about the bgt is that their no graphics, which means that sited people won'te play this game. Ok, maybe Ann walker and Jason Allen would play it, but i'm discussing the ones on the gamefax foroms. So if I do this, maybe after that for the graphics i'll port it to auto it and do out the graphics. Maybe my sister would do the drawings. My audio games for the blind group. Discussions off topic are welcome in the holidays. Talking about games is welcome, talking about computer problems is welcome when their are know holidays but that's only in easter holidays or know holidays. If you want to joyn, just send a blank email to. audiogamesfortheblind+subscr...@googlegroups.com With the subject subscribe in the subject line. Contact infermation. email: muhamme...@googlemail.com msn: muhammed123...@hotmail.co.uk Skype: muhammed.deniz Klango username. muhammed - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 3:45 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Hi, Definitely. I think people completely forget the fact BGT has a lot of the hard work done. If a developer has to write something like PB Streamway, for example, that's going to take time. DirectSound 8 is ok, but it has none of the features of Streamway like the support for compressed file types, sound encryption, and doesn't even have a way to load PCm wav files without you creating a wrapper class for that purpose. So right there the audio support in BGT is first rate, and better than DirectSound by itself. Another thing that most new BGT users probably don't understand is how much easier using it is compared to using C/C++ directly. For one thing you don't have to mess with pointers which are always something of a pain. Every pointer you asign you have to remember somewhere in your program to release/destroy it to free up that block of memory. Most people hear probably have no idea whatI'm talking about, but the lack of having to deal with pointers is a very good thing for new programmers. Also BGT seams to handle strings without worrying about unicode vs ascii code. that's a good thing, because a C++ application written for Windows generally gets pretty picky about string types. To pas an unicode string to a string constant you have to do something like LPWSTR strText = LHello world!; which cconverts the words Hello world to unicode and stores it in the string constant strText. We don't have to worry too much about that in BGT which makes it much less confusing. Bottom line, some of these people really have no idea what they are talking about here. BGT is simple and easy to use which is worth its wait in gold right there. The builtin features and simplicity of the scripting language makes it a great tool to use for game development if you don't have the years of experience as a software developer that someone like me has. Then, as I pointed out before professional tools cost money. Visual Studio itself isn't cheep. Oh, there is the Express version, which is free, but it is also a very stripped down version lacking most of the features and tools you get with Visual Studio Pro. One of these additional tools you don't get with Express is Microsoft Advance Setup Installer which is really the best installation system for Windows. There is Dotfuscator which helps a developer protect his/her .NET applications from reverse engineering. On and on we can go. So if you want to develope a game right and have all the pro tools you are going to pay some serious big bucks for the tools, and still have to write your own game engine from scratch. It isn't worth it for someone who doesn't have that stuff to begin with. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can
Re: [Audyssey] news Request
Well, doing graphics with autoit. Neh! It will fail bad bad badly! - Original Message - From: Muhammed Deniz muhamme...@googlemail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 10:37:57 +0100 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Really, i'm planning to right my city attack game in auto it or Bgt. But you see the thing with Bgt is that it could right more complex stuff and other tidbits. Now when I create this City attack game and give it out to the public, I don't want to here make this a demo as its gonna be a test and the actual city attack game would come out. But still, i'm not sure if I shall do it. The only problem is that I need good sounds and the like. Though one thing that I don't like about the bgt is that their no graphics, which means that sited people won'te play this game. Ok, maybe Ann walker and Jason Allen would play it, but i'm discussing the ones on the gamefax foroms. So if I do this, maybe after that for the graphics i'll port it to auto it and do out the graphics. Maybe my sister would do the drawings. My audio games for the blind group. Discussions off topic are welcome in the holidays. Talking about games is welcome, talking about computer problems is welcome when their are know holidays but that's only in easter holidays or know holidays. If you want to joyn, just send a blank email to. audiogamesfortheblind+subscr...@googlegroups.com With the subject subscribe in the subject line. Contact infermation. email: muhamme...@googlemail.com msn: muhammed123...@hotmail.co.uk Skype: muhammed.deniz Klango username. muhammed - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 3:45 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Hi, Definitely. I think people completely forget the fact BGT has a lot of the hard work done. If a developer has to write something like PB Streamway, for example, that's going to take time. DirectSound 8 is ok, but it has none of the features of Streamway like the support for compressed file types, sound encryption, and doesn't even have a way to load PCm wav files without you creating a wrapper class for that purpose. So right there the audio support in BGT is first rate, and better than DirectSound by itself. Another thing that most new BGT users probably don't understand is how much easier using it is compared to using C/C++ directly. For one thing you don't have to mess with pointers which are always something of a pain. Every pointer you asign you have to remember somewhere in your program to release/destroy it to free up that block of memory. Most people hear probably have no idea whatI'm talking about, but the lack of having to deal with pointers is a very good thing for new programmers. Also BGT seams to handle strings without worrying about unicode vs ascii code. that's a good thing, because a C++ application written for Windows generally gets pretty picky about string types. To pas an unicode string to a string constant you have to do something like LPWSTR strText = LHello world!; which cconverts the words Hello world to unicode and stores it in the string constant strText. We don't have to worry too much about that in BGT which makes it much less confusing. Bottom line, some of these people really have no idea what they are talking about here. BGT is simple and easy to use which is worth its wait in gold right there. The builtin features and simplicity of the scripting language makes it a great tool to use for game development if you don't have the years of experience as a software developer that someone like me has. Then, as I pointed out before professional tools cost money. Visual Studio itself isn't cheep. Oh, there is the Express version, which is free, but it is also a very stripped down version lacking most of the features and tools you get with Visual Studio Pro. One of these additional tools you don't get with Express is Microsoft Advance Setup Installer which is really the best installation system for Windows. There is Dotfuscator which helps a developer protect his/her .NET applications from reverse engineering. On and on we can go. So if you want to develope a game right and have all the pro tools you are going to pay some serious big bucks for the tools, and still have to write your own game engine from scratch. It isn't worth it for someone who doesn't have that stuff to begin with. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you
Re: [Audyssey] news Request
Hi Kevin, Thomas's post was not directed to you; it was a reply to another poster who thinks that 800 dollars is something from hell, to quote. Grin. Thomas made a very good summary of the benefits of the BGT engine and of the costs involved in doing it from scratch, which is what I was responding to. When I set the pro price, I considered the fact that people would actually be making commercial games with the engine and so would in all certainty make back that investment on their sales. That is of course assuming that they were able to create good games, but one can use the demo and the lite version to be sure that the tool is what one is looking for. The lite one will only be 65 US dollars and will allow the creation and unlimited distribution of freeware, non-commercial games. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Kevin Weispfennig kevin.weispfen...@gmx.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Hi, Yes, indeed. I didn't say that is is, over priced, I only said that I don't have enough money, and personally I fully agree with the $800 Price, because if you looked down the list that thom gave us... OH my! 20 Thousand dollars for the Playstation SDK! But then again the big big companies like Rockstar games, or Midway, they can afford it because they make loats and loats of more money than they had to pay. We audio games developers are mostly 1-programmer-companies, which makes that even harder. And I think, but this is my personal opinion, that $800 is a really good price for a game creation toolkit, even sound encryption, which if phillip makes it like in q9, won't be as easy to hack. Also, sapi support... Well, in C++ or even in VB6 you have to creat com objects. But right out of the box, wichout even having to initialize... Also, let's think for a second how long he programs or sits in front of his Computer, to make something FOR US. I mean that is just... Well, yeah. It is awesome. And i bed it is not that easy, because if the code gets bigger and bigger and you need to change stuff around it is, quiet hard to find what you are looking for sometimes. I mean if you over comment then it is not that hard, but it takes far more time. With that all in Mind I will send this mail. - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 01:52:05 +0200 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Hi Thomas, Thank you for this long and thorough explanation. I get this question all the time, as a matter of fact. What one is paying for is not the scripting, because as Tom says there are already plenty of scripting engines out there. The scripting is merely one of many parts forming the chain that makes it, in my humble opinion, at least 10 times easier to develop an audio game than it would in C++. The statement that if one can learn BGT one can directly learn C++ as well is not true. The syntax, sure, but a language is so much more than its syntax. C++ itself has none of the advantages that BGT offers, and if you need to acquire these you'll be talking an even higher price tag and with more work on the part of the programmer as well. And for those who want to make free games, the lite version is considerably cheaper. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 11:37 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Hello Tom, Actually, $800 is a pretty fair price for a tool like BGT Pro. I think your opinion that it is over priced is do to the fact you haven't had any experience as a professional software developer. I can tell you for a fact that similar tools in the programming market would cost far more in comparison. Especially, if you begin adding up the cost for various software products. Here is some things to look at. FMOD Ex (Shareware License) $100.00 FMOD Ex (Casual License) $3,000.00 FMOD Ex (Commercial License) $6,000.00 Play Station SDK $20,000.00 Visual Studio Standard $299.00 Visual Studio Professional (without MSDN) $569 Visual Studio Professional (with MSDN) $1,299.00 Visual Studio Premium (with MSDN) $2,499.00 Just that alone can run you into thousands of dollars, and we haven't even began talking about sounds, music, and voice acting yet. Plus the fact BGT is or will be a fully qualified game engine complete with scripting, sound encryption, Sapi support, etc out of the box. If you use Visual Studio and say FMOD Ex you are going to pay more and still have to write a bunch of that stuff from scratch anyway. Plus if you want to support a special game console like Play Station Sony charges a wopping $20,000 to license their tools and libraries. So $800 isn't a bad price realistically speaking. If you
Re: [Audyssey] news Request
Then maybe with Vb6. Jim, does graphics work on Vb6? My audio games for the blind group. Discussions off topic are welcome in the holidays. Talking about games is welcome, talking about computer problems is welcome when their are know holidays but that's only in easter holidays or know holidays. If you want to joyn, just send a blank email to. audiogamesfortheblind+subscr...@googlegroups.com With the subject subscribe in the subject line. Contact infermation. email: muhamme...@googlemail.com msn: muhammed123...@hotmail.co.uk Skype: muhammed.deniz Klango username. muhammed - Original Message - From: Kevin Weispfennig kevin.weispfen...@gmx.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Well, doing graphics with autoit. Neh! It will fail bad bad badly! - Original Message - From: Muhammed Deniz muhamme...@googlemail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 10:37:57 +0100 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Really, i'm planning to right my city attack game in auto it or Bgt. But you see the thing with Bgt is that it could right more complex stuff and other tidbits. Now when I create this City attack game and give it out to the public, I don't want to here make this a demo as its gonna be a test and the actual city attack game would come out. But still, i'm not sure if I shall do it. The only problem is that I need good sounds and the like. Though one thing that I don't like about the bgt is that their no graphics, which means that sited people won'te play this game. Ok, maybe Ann walker and Jason Allen would play it, but i'm discussing the ones on the gamefax foroms. So if I do this, maybe after that for the graphics i'll port it to auto it and do out the graphics. Maybe my sister would do the drawings. My audio games for the blind group. Discussions off topic are welcome in the holidays. Talking about games is welcome, talking about computer problems is welcome when their are know holidays but that's only in easter holidays or know holidays. If you want to joyn, just send a blank email to. audiogamesfortheblind+subscr...@googlegroups.com With the subject subscribe in the subject line. Contact infermation. email: muhamme...@googlemail.com msn: muhammed123...@hotmail.co.uk Skype: muhammed.deniz Klango username. muhammed - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 3:45 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Hi, Definitely. I think people completely forget the fact BGT has a lot of the hard work done. If a developer has to write something like PB Streamway, for example, that's going to take time. DirectSound 8 is ok, but it has none of the features of Streamway like the support for compressed file types, sound encryption, and doesn't even have a way to load PCm wav files without you creating a wrapper class for that purpose. So right there the audio support in BGT is first rate, and better than DirectSound by itself. Another thing that most new BGT users probably don't understand is how much easier using it is compared to using C/C++ directly. For one thing you don't have to mess with pointers which are always something of a pain. Every pointer you asign you have to remember somewhere in your program to release/destroy it to free up that block of memory. Most people hear probably have no idea whatI'm talking about, but the lack of having to deal with pointers is a very good thing for new programmers. Also BGT seams to handle strings without worrying about unicode vs ascii code. that's a good thing, because a C++ application written for Windows generally gets pretty picky about string types. To pas an unicode string to a string constant you have to do something like LPWSTR strText = LHello world!; which cconverts the words Hello world to unicode and stores it in the string constant strText. We don't have to worry too much about that in BGT which makes it much less confusing. Bottom line, some of these people really have no idea what they are talking about here. BGT is simple and easy to use which is worth its wait in gold right there. The builtin features and simplicity of the scripting language makes it a great tool to use for game development if you don't have the years of experience as a software developer that someone like me has. Then, as I pointed out before professional tools cost money. Visual Studio itself isn't cheep. Oh, there is the Express version, which is free, but it is also a very stripped down version lacking most of the features and tools you get with Visual Studio Pro. One of these additional tools you don't get with Express is Microsoft Advance Setup Installer which is really the best installation system for Windows. There is Dotfuscator which helps a developer protect his/her .NET
Re: [Audyssey] news Request
For the person that which said this, I would recomend for the pro version that when the price toens down alittle, then buy the pro version. My audio games for the blind group. Discussions off topic are welcome in the holidays. Talking about games is welcome, talking about computer problems is welcome when their are know holidays but that's only in easter holidays or know holidays. If you want to joyn, just send a blank email to. audiogamesfortheblind+subscr...@googlegroups.com With the subject subscribe in the subject line. Contact infermation. email: muhamme...@googlemail.com msn: muhammed123...@hotmail.co.uk Skype: muhammed.deniz Klango username. muhammed - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Hi Kevin, Thomas's post was not directed to you; it was a reply to another poster who thinks that 800 dollars is something from hell, to quote. Grin. Thomas made a very good summary of the benefits of the BGT engine and of the costs involved in doing it from scratch, which is what I was responding to. When I set the pro price, I considered the fact that people would actually be making commercial games with the engine and so would in all certainty make back that investment on their sales. That is of course assuming that they were able to create good games, but one can use the demo and the lite version to be sure that the tool is what one is looking for. The lite one will only be 65 US dollars and will allow the creation and unlimited distribution of freeware, non-commercial games. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Kevin Weispfennig kevin.weispfen...@gmx.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Hi, Yes, indeed. I didn't say that is is, over priced, I only said that I don't have enough money, and personally I fully agree with the $800 Price, because if you looked down the list that thom gave us... OH my! 20 Thousand dollars for the Playstation SDK! But then again the big big companies like Rockstar games, or Midway, they can afford it because they make loats and loats of more money than they had to pay. We audio games developers are mostly 1-programmer-companies, which makes that even harder. And I think, but this is my personal opinion, that $800 is a really good price for a game creation toolkit, even sound encryption, which if phillip makes it like in q9, won't be as easy to hack. Also, sapi support... Well, in C++ or even in VB6 you have to creat com objects. But right out of the box, wichout even having to initialize... Also, let's think for a second how long he programs or sits in front of his Computer, to make something FOR US. I mean that is just... Well, yeah. It is awesome. And i bed it is not that easy, because if the code gets bigger and bigger and you need to change stuff around it is, quiet hard to find what you are looking for sometimes. I mean if you over comment then it is not that hard, but it takes far more time. With that all in Mind I will send this mail. - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 01:52:05 +0200 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Hi Thomas, Thank you for this long and thorough explanation. I get this question all the time, as a matter of fact. What one is paying for is not the scripting, because as Tom says there are already plenty of scripting engines out there. The scripting is merely one of many parts forming the chain that makes it, in my humble opinion, at least 10 times easier to develop an audio game than it would in C++. The statement that if one can learn BGT one can directly learn C++ as well is not true. The syntax, sure, but a language is so much more than its syntax. C++ itself has none of the advantages that BGT offers, and if you need to acquire these you'll be talking an even higher price tag and with more work on the part of the programmer as well. And for those who want to make free games, the lite version is considerably cheaper. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 11:37 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Hello Tom, Actually, $800 is a pretty fair price for a tool like BGT Pro. I think your opinion that it is over priced is do to the fact you haven't had any experience as a professional software developer. I can tell you for a fact that similar tools in the programming market would cost far more in comparison. Especially, if you begin adding up the cost for various software products. Here is some things to look at. FMOD Ex (Shareware License) $100.00 FMOD Ex (Casual License
Re: [Audyssey] news Request
Hi phillip, Yes I saw that that is was not mentioned directly to me, I just wanted to tell ya'll my mind. *smiles* Regards, Kevin - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 12:05:59 +0200 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Hi Kevin, Thomas's post was not directed to you; it was a reply to another poster who thinks that 800 dollars is something from hell, to quote. Grin. Thomas made a very good summary of the benefits of the BGT engine and of the costs involved in doing it from scratch, which is what I was responding to. When I set the pro price, I considered the fact that people would actually be making commercial games with the engine and so would in all certainty make back that investment on their sales. That is of course assuming that they were able to create good games, but one can use the demo and the lite version to be sure that the tool is what one is looking for. The lite one will only be 65 US dollars and will allow the creation and unlimited distribution of freeware, non-commercial games. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Kevin Weispfennig kevin.weispfen...@gmx.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Hi, Yes, indeed. I didn't say that is is, over priced, I only said that I don't have enough money, and personally I fully agree with the $800 Price, because if you looked down the list that thom gave us... OH my! 20 Thousand dollars for the Playstation SDK! But then again the big big companies like Rockstar games, or Midway, they can afford it because they make loats and loats of more money than they had to pay. We audio games developers are mostly 1-programmer-companies, which makes that even harder. And I think, but this is my personal opinion, that $800 is a really good price for a game creation toolkit, even sound encryption, which if phillip makes it like in q9, won't be as easy to hack. Also, sapi support... Well, in C++ or even in VB6 you have to creat com objects. But right out of the box, wichout even having to initialize... Also, let's think for a second how long he programs or sits in front of his Computer, to make something FOR US. I mean that is just... Well, yeah. It is awesome. And i bed it is not that easy, because if the code gets bigger and bigger and you need to change stuff around it is, quiet hard to find what you are looking for sometimes. I mean if you over comment then it is not that hard, but it takes far more time. With that all in Mind I will send this mail. - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 01:52:05 +0200 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Hi Thomas, Thank you for this long and thorough explanation. I get this question all the time, as a matter of fact. What one is paying for is not the scripting, because as Tom says there are already plenty of scripting engines out there. The scripting is merely one of many parts forming the chain that makes it, in my humble opinion, at least 10 times easier to develop an audio game than it would in C++. The statement that if one can learn BGT one can directly learn C++ as well is not true. The syntax, sure, but a language is so much more than its syntax. C++ itself has none of the advantages that BGT offers, and if you need to acquire these you'll be talking an even higher price tag and with more work on the part of the programmer as well. And for those who want to make free games, the lite version is considerably cheaper. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 11:37 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Hello Tom, Actually, $800 is a pretty fair price for a tool like BGT Pro. I think your opinion that it is over priced is do to the fact you haven't had any experience as a professional software developer. I can tell you for a fact that similar tools in the programming market would cost far more in comparison. Especially, if you begin adding up the cost for various software products. Here is some things to look at. FMOD Ex (Shareware License) $100.00 FMOD Ex (Casual License) $3,000.00 FMOD Ex (Commercial License) $6,000.00 Play Station SDK $20,000.00 Visual Studio Standard $299.00 Visual Studio Professional (without MSDN) $569 Visual Studio Professional (with MSDN) $1,299.00 Visual Studio Premium (with MSDN) $2,499.00 Just that alone can run you into thousands of dollars, and we haven't even began talking about sounds, music, and voice
Re: [Audyssey] news Request
Hi Kevin, No doubt about it writing a tool like BGT is a major undertaking for one or two people. I spent three/four months converting my game creation toolkit, Genesis 3D, from C# .NET to C++ and in many ways it still isn't finished. The only reason I was able to do it that quickly is because C# is similar to C++ and I only had to make modifications to the code and not rewrite everything from absolute scratch. That saved me time as well as I didn't have to do as much debugging and testing as I might have. When I wrote the engine from scratch in C# it took me two years to get it to where it was with Mysteries of the Ancients beta 10. That's a lot of time and work worth saving if you can cut a corner do it. Had BGT been out before I started Genesis I may very well have purchased it for USA Games just because of its features. $800 is a lot, but not compared to what I would be earning releasing games every few months. On 4/9/10, Kevin Weispfennig kevin.weispfen...@gmx.net wrote: Hi, Yes, indeed. I didn't say that is is, over priced, I only said that I don't have enough money, and personally I fully agree with the $800 Price, because if you looked down the list that thom gave us... OH my! 20 Thousand dollars for the Playstation SDK! But then again the big big companies like Rockstar games, or Midway, they can afford it because they make loats and loats of more money than they had to pay. We audio games developers are mostly 1-programmer-companies, which makes that even harder. And I think, but this is my personal opinion, that $800 is a really good price for a game creation toolkit, even sound encryption, which if phillip makes it like in q9, won't be as easy to hack. Also, sapi support... Well, in C++ or even in VB6 you have to creat com objects. But right out of the box, wichout even having to initialize... Also, let's think for a second how long he programs or sits in front of his Computer, to make something FOR US. I mean that is just... Well, yeah. It is awesome. And i bed it is not that easy, because if the code gets bigger and bigger and you need to change stuff around it is, quiet hard to find what you are looking for sometimes. I mean if you over comment then it is not that hard, but it takes far more time. With that all in Mind I will send this mail. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] news Request
Hi Muhammed, Yes, but you have to use the DirectX 8 graphics libraries like DirectDraw. It goes without saying DirectDraw itself is ancient and most games today use Direct3D 9, 10, or 11. On 4/9/10, Muhammed Deniz muhamme...@googlemail.com wrote: Then maybe with Vb6. Jim, does graphics work on Vb6? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] news Request
Hi Thomas, yeah. But I need people that which could do good drawings. Such as the 6th level when you have to fight the 3 boss's. Though, their's another surprise at the end! My audio games for the blind group. Discussions off topic are welcome in the holidays. Talking about games is welcome, talking about computer problems is welcome when their are know holidays but that's only in easter holidays or know holidays. If you want to joyn, just send a blank email to. audiogamesfortheblind+subscr...@googlegroups.com With the subject subscribe in the subject line. Contact infermation. email: muhamme...@googlemail.com msn: muhammed123...@hotmail.co.uk Skype: muhammed.deniz Klango username. muhammed - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Hi Muhammed, Yes, but you have to use the DirectX 8 graphics libraries like DirectDraw. It goes without saying DirectDraw itself is ancient and most games today use Direct3D 9, 10, or 11. On 4/9/10, Muhammed Deniz muhamme...@googlemail.com wrote: Then maybe with Vb6. Jim, does graphics work on Vb6? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] news Request
Well, will just say, any of my 'attempts' are still somewhat/rather experimental. If I (ever) actually finish off a game as such, I'll let you know, since at this stage am just posting them here as examples, and also in case anyone has feedback/suggestions, etc. Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:00 AM Subject: [Audyssey] news Request Hi. With the bgt just releasd, lots of clever people are making games, which is obviously good. The only problem is, as news hound for audiogames.net, I'm not precisely certain at what point people want the games reported on the front of audiogames.net as news items, and at what point their just private betas shown off on this list. This has occasionally also happened on the audiogames.net forum, when someone has posted a comparatively unfinished version of a game (often a programming example or first attempt game which is more like a programming example). so, could people please let me know if their posting bgt projects as just work in progress type affairs, or whether they want them considdered as at least public beta status and therefore needing reporting and eventually adding to the database. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5008 (20100407) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5008 (20100407) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] news Request
My ones are only for little tests. My audio games for the blind group. Discussions off topic are welcome in the holidays. Talking about games is welcome, talking about computer problems is welcome when their are know holidays but that's only in easter holidays or know holidays. If you want to joyn, just send a blank email to. audiogamesfortheblind+subscr...@googlegroups.com With the subject subscribe in the subject line. Contact infermation. email: muhamme...@googlemail.com msn: muhammed123...@hotmail.co.uk Skype: muhammed.deniz Klango username. muhammed - Original Message - From: Jacob Kruger jac...@mailzone.co.za To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:12 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Well, will just say, any of my 'attempts' are still somewhat/rather experimental. If I (ever) actually finish off a game as such, I'll let you know, since at this stage am just posting them here as examples, and also in case anyone has feedback/suggestions, etc. Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:00 AM Subject: [Audyssey] news Request Hi. With the bgt just releasd, lots of clever people are making games, which is obviously good. The only problem is, as news hound for audiogames.net, I'm not precisely certain at what point people want the games reported on the front of audiogames.net as news items, and at what point their just private betas shown off on this list. This has occasionally also happened on the audiogames.net forum, when someone has posted a comparatively unfinished version of a game (often a programming example or first attempt game which is more like a programming example). so, could people please let me know if their posting bgt projects as just work in progress type affairs, or whether they want them considdered as at least public beta status and therefore needing reporting and eventually adding to the database. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5008 (20100407) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5008 (20100407) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] news Request
That's what I suspected myself, hence the question, but as people are doing this with the bgt in general I thought it'd be worth asking. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Jacob Kruger jac...@mailzone.co.za To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:12 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Well, will just say, any of my 'attempts' are still somewhat/rather experimental. If I (ever) actually finish off a game as such, I'll let you know, since at this stage am just posting them here as examples, and also in case anyone has feedback/suggestions, etc. Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 8:00 AM Subject: [Audyssey] news Request Hi. With the bgt just releasd, lots of clever people are making games, which is obviously good. The only problem is, as news hound for audiogames.net, I'm not precisely certain at what point people want the games reported on the front of audiogames.net as news items, and at what point their just private betas shown off on this list. This has occasionally also happened on the audiogames.net forum, when someone has posted a comparatively unfinished version of a game (often a programming example or first attempt game which is more like a programming example). so, could people please let me know if their posting bgt projects as just work in progress type affairs, or whether they want them considdered as at least public beta status and therefore needing reporting and eventually adding to the database. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5008 (20100407) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5008 (20100407) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] news Request
Hi Dark, One thing that might help is to consider here that BGT itself is in beta testing. Therefore anything currently being created using it is likewise a work in progress. Some of the new games are for the most part just practice appplications or scripts at this point. Were I you I wouldn't really consider them news worthy until they are stable, built using the full BGT engine, and can be compiled into redistributable files. However, thisis just my opinion based on my own view of professionalism here. On 4/8/10, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi. With the bgt just releasd, lots of clever people are making games, which is obviously good. The only problem is, as news hound for audiogames.net, I'm not precisely certain at what point people want the games reported on the front of audiogames.net as news items, and at what point their just private betas shown off on this list. This has occasionally also happened on the audiogames.net forum, when someone has posted a comparatively unfinished version of a game (often a programming example or first attempt game which is more like a programming example). so, could people please let me know if their posting bgt projects as just work in progress type affairs, or whether they want them considdered as at least public beta status and therefore needing reporting and eventually adding to the database. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] news Request
Hi Thomas, I tend to agree. While some of the things being created by BGT users certainly are of high quality, they obviously cannot yet function without the BGT engine being present on the user's system. This is a serious drawback for anything that is to be professionally distributed. Besides, BGT will be able to do so much more in the 1.0 release so that the functionality that is currently present can be considered fairly limited in comparison to what will come. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Hi Dark, One thing that might help is to consider here that BGT itself is in beta testing. Therefore anything currently being created using it is likewise a work in progress. Some of the new games are for the most part just practice appplications or scripts at this point. Were I you I wouldn't really consider them news worthy until they are stable, built using the full BGT engine, and can be compiled into redistributable files. However, thisis just my opinion based on my own view of professionalism here. On 4/8/10, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi. With the bgt just releasd, lots of clever people are making games, which is obviously good. The only problem is, as news hound for audiogames.net, I'm not precisely certain at what point people want the games reported on the front of audiogames.net as news items, and at what point their just private betas shown off on this list. This has occasionally also happened on the audiogames.net forum, when someone has posted a comparatively unfinished version of a game (often a programming example or first attempt game which is more like a programming example). so, could people please let me know if their posting bgt projects as just work in progress type affairs, or whether they want them considdered as at least public beta status and therefore needing reporting and eventually adding to the database. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] news Request
Fair enough then, I did think this was the case but thought I ought to check. Generally, I don't mind posting public betas, but there has to be a certain quality to them, so that would make sense. it will also though make life easier when bgt can do solo compiling of one sort or another, sinse then when people think they've got something vaguely playable, they can compile it, sort of like gift wrapping for the general public. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Hi Thomas, I tend to agree. While some of the things being created by BGT users certainly are of high quality, they obviously cannot yet function without the BGT engine being present on the user's system. This is a serious drawback for anything that is to be professionally distributed. Besides, BGT will be able to do so much more in the 1.0 release so that the functionality that is currently present can be considered fairly limited in comparison to what will come. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Hi Dark, One thing that might help is to consider here that BGT itself is in beta testing. Therefore anything currently being created using it is likewise a work in progress. Some of the new games are for the most part just practice appplications or scripts at this point. Were I you I wouldn't really consider them news worthy until they are stable, built using the full BGT engine, and can be compiled into redistributable files. However, thisis just my opinion based on my own view of professionalism here. On 4/8/10, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi. With the bgt just releasd, lots of clever people are making games, which is obviously good. The only problem is, as news hound for audiogames.net, I'm not precisely certain at what point people want the games reported on the front of audiogames.net as news items, and at what point their just private betas shown off on this list. This has occasionally also happened on the audiogames.net forum, when someone has posted a comparatively unfinished version of a game (often a programming example or first attempt game which is more like a programming example). so, could people please let me know if their posting bgt projects as just work in progress type affairs, or whether they want them considdered as at least public beta status and therefore needing reporting and eventually adding to the database. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] news Request
BTW, how many will be cost BGT? i don't know it is true or not, but i've hear something about 800$. When i am thinkinh about this price, i am trying to get a question for my ansfer. Firstly, 800$ is a dramatically price from a nightmare, i mean pro version of BGT. Why we must paying for something like that? Okay, we can only paying for a examples, but for nothing more. If i can learn BGT, i can learn a C++ language too, so, where is a target to get it? Sorry for of topic anyway. On the marked we have tools like that, maybe not for games, but we have, autohotkey, autoit, etc etc, and we have it for free. Maybe i am not a programmer, and don't know it very well, but for me it's something from hell, with full of respect. Tom --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] news Request
Hello Tom, Actually, $800 is a pretty fair price for a tool like BGT Pro. I think your opinion that it is over priced is do to the fact you haven't had any experience as a professional software developer. I can tell you for a fact that similar tools in the programming market would cost far more in comparison. Especially, if you begin adding up the cost for various software products. Here is some things to look at. FMOD Ex (Shareware License) $100.00 FMOD Ex (Casual License) $3,000.00 FMOD Ex (Commercial License) $6,000.00 Play Station SDK $20,000.00 Visual Studio Standard $299.00 Visual Studio Professional (without MSDN) $569 Visual Studio Professional (with MSDN) $1,299.00 Visual Studio Premium (with MSDN) $2,499.00 Just that alone can run you into thousands of dollars, and we haven't even began talking about sounds, music, and voice acting yet. Plus the fact BGT is or will be a fully qualified game engine complete with scripting, sound encryption, Sapi support, etc out of the box. If you use Visual Studio and say FMOD Ex you are going to pay more and still have to write a bunch of that stuff from scratch anyway. Plus if you want to support a special game console like Play Station Sony charges a wopping $20,000 to license their tools and libraries. So $800 isn't a bad price realistically speaking. If you are comercially selling your games you will earn back that $800 pretty quickly. MOTA grosed more than that during preordering, and I'm sure the final release will even earn more. On 4/8/10, lirin seal11...@gmail.com wrote: BTW, how many will be cost BGT? i don't know it is true or not, but i've hear something about 800$. When i am thinkinh about this price, i am trying to get a question for my ansfer. Firstly, 800$ is a dramatically price from a nightmare, i mean pro version of BGT. Why we must paying for something like that? Okay, we can only paying for a examples, but for nothing more. If i can learn BGT, i can learn a C++ language too, so, where is a target to get it? Sorry for of topic anyway. On the marked we have tools like that, maybe not for games, but we have, autohotkey, autoit, etc etc, and we have it for free. Maybe i am not a programmer, and don't know it very well, but for me it's something from hell, with full of respect. Tom --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] news Request
Hi Thomas, Thank you for this long and thorough explanation. I get this question all the time, as a matter of fact. What one is paying for is not the scripting, because as Tom says there are already plenty of scripting engines out there. The scripting is merely one of many parts forming the chain that makes it, in my humble opinion, at least 10 times easier to develop an audio game than it would in C++. The statement that if one can learn BGT one can directly learn C++ as well is not true. The syntax, sure, but a language is so much more than its syntax. C++ itself has none of the advantages that BGT offers, and if you need to acquire these you'll be talking an even higher price tag and with more work on the part of the programmer as well. And for those who want to make free games, the lite version is considerably cheaper. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 11:37 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] news Request Hello Tom, Actually, $800 is a pretty fair price for a tool like BGT Pro. I think your opinion that it is over priced is do to the fact you haven't had any experience as a professional software developer. I can tell you for a fact that similar tools in the programming market would cost far more in comparison. Especially, if you begin adding up the cost for various software products. Here is some things to look at. FMOD Ex (Shareware License) $100.00 FMOD Ex (Casual License) $3,000.00 FMOD Ex (Commercial License) $6,000.00 Play Station SDK $20,000.00 Visual Studio Standard $299.00 Visual Studio Professional (without MSDN) $569 Visual Studio Professional (with MSDN) $1,299.00 Visual Studio Premium (with MSDN) $2,499.00 Just that alone can run you into thousands of dollars, and we haven't even began talking about sounds, music, and voice acting yet. Plus the fact BGT is or will be a fully qualified game engine complete with scripting, sound encryption, Sapi support, etc out of the box. If you use Visual Studio and say FMOD Ex you are going to pay more and still have to write a bunch of that stuff from scratch anyway. Plus if you want to support a special game console like Play Station Sony charges a wopping $20,000 to license their tools and libraries. So $800 isn't a bad price realistically speaking. If you are comercially selling your games you will earn back that $800 pretty quickly. MOTA grosed more than that during preordering, and I'm sure the final release will even earn more. On 4/8/10, lirin seal11...@gmail.com wrote: BTW, how many will be cost BGT? i don't know it is true or not, but i've hear something about 800$. When i am thinkinh about this price, i am trying to get a question for my ansfer. Firstly, 800$ is a dramatically price from a nightmare, i mean pro version of BGT. Why we must paying for something like that? Okay, we can only paying for a examples, but for nothing more. If i can learn BGT, i can learn a C++ language too, so, where is a target to get it? Sorry for of topic anyway. On the marked we have tools like that, maybe not for games, but we have, autohotkey, autoit, etc etc, and we have it for free. Maybe i am not a programmer, and don't know it very well, but for me it's something from hell, with full of respect. Tom --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] news Request
Hi, Definitely. I think people completely forget the fact BGT has a lot of the hard work done. If a developer has to write something like PB Streamway, for example, that's going to take time. DirectSound 8 is ok, but it has none of the features of Streamway like the support for compressed file types, sound encryption, and doesn't even have a way to load PCm wav files without you creating a wrapper class for that purpose. So right there the audio support in BGT is first rate, and better than DirectSound by itself. Another thing that most new BGT users probably don't understand is how much easier using it is compared to using C/C++ directly. For one thing you don't have to mess with pointers which are always something of a pain. Every pointer you asign you have to remember somewhere in your program to release/destroy it to free up that block of memory. Most people hear probably have no idea whatI'm talking about, but the lack of having to deal with pointers is a very good thing for new programmers. Also BGT seams to handle strings without worrying about unicode vs ascii code. that's a good thing, because a C++ application written for Windows generally gets pretty picky about string types. To pas an unicode string to a string constant you have to do something like LPWSTR strText = LHello world!; which cconverts the words Hello world to unicode and stores it in the string constant strText. We don't have to worry too much about that in BGT which makes it much less confusing. Bottom line, some of these people really have no idea what they are talking about here. BGT is simple and easy to use which is worth its wait in gold right there. The builtin features and simplicity of the scripting language makes it a great tool to use for game development if you don't have the years of experience as a software developer that someone like me has. Then, as I pointed out before professional tools cost money. Visual Studio itself isn't cheep. Oh, there is the Express version, which is free, but it is also a very stripped down version lacking most of the features and tools you get with Visual Studio Pro. One of these additional tools you don't get with Express is Microsoft Advance Setup Installer which is really the best installation system for Windows. There is Dotfuscator which helps a developer protect his/her .NET applications from reverse engineering. On and on we can go. So if you want to develope a game right and have all the pro tools you are going to pay some serious big bucks for the tools, and still have to write your own game engine from scratch. It isn't worth it for someone who doesn't have that stuff to begin with. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
