Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
Hi Thomas, I never saw any of the black and white video games. Most all video games that I ever played were on my Atari 2600 and Atari 800 XL. And on those probably the best video was like Donkey Kong, Popeye and Star Wars. Which were only a tiny bit better than the graphics in games like Space Invaders, Missile Command, Pacman, Pong, Pole Position, bowling, baseball, football etc. I am sure that I would be totally blown away by the graphics in the games these days. Especially the X rated ones. grin BFN Jim PCs are OK except when you use them as bowling balls. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
Hi, what I imagined was the lava bubbling and the stones bubbling just a bit differently and louder, so that you could tell their position in the lava. Well, after you realized what that sound represented. And either a sound that increased in pitch as you prepared yourself for the jump or there would be no such feature, that depends on whether there was a jump meter of any sort in Angel of Darkness. There was not as far as I remember. Once you landed on the stone, its bubbling sound, which would now be centered and quite loud, would start to decrease in pitch, meaning that it has been sinking. This would involve some trial and error, finding out and mistakes while the challenge could still be preserved, I think. Of course you would need a key, for example x for examine, that would describe the layout of the room or place to you aloud like in Terraformers, etc, while the game was paused at that time. This would not leave you absolutely stuck and clueless in an unknown environment. Do you get my point? I think this is a possibility for your future Tomb Hunter games. *smiles* Lukas - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 2:44 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers The only way I could see this working is to have some sort of general ambiance audio that gives one a hint as to how far they're jumping. Of course there'd be problems there, but it seems to me to be the most practical solution --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
that would be cool oh you also have to get success and falier sounds if a true vid game, you here a chime if you miss you hear a falling down sound then the classic death movie thing. At 09:43 p.m. 14/01/2009, you wrote: Hi, what I imagined was the lava bubbling and the stones bubbling just a bit differently and louder, so that you could tell their position in the lava. Well, after you realized what that sound represented. And either a sound that increased in pitch as you prepared yourself for the jump or there would be no such feature, that depends on whether there was a jump meter of any sort in Angel of Darkness. There was not as far as I remember. Once you landed on the stone, its bubbling sound, which would now be centered and quite loud, would start to decrease in pitch, meaning that it has been sinking. This would involve some trial and error, finding out and mistakes while the challenge could still be preserved, I think. Of course you would need a key, for example x for examine, that would describe the layout of the room or place to you aloud like in Terraformers, etc, while the game was paused at that time. This would not leave you absolutely stuck and clueless in an unknown environment. Do you get my point? I think this is a possibility for your future Tomb Hunter games. *smiles* Lukas - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 2:44 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers The only way I could see this working is to have some sort of general ambiance audio that gives one a hint as to how far they're jumping. Of course there'd be problems there, but it seems to me to be the most practical solution --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
That's natural and not a problem, I think. :-) Just a normal realistic landing sound on a stony type of surface, that would also have to be used at many other places in the game, would represent a successful landing, and as for failure and death, remember any of the old Monty or MOTA sounds when you jump across too wide gap when the vanishing platform you need to get to the other side is currently enjoying a vacation. *smiles* Lukas - Original Message - From: shaun everiss shau...@xtra.co.nz To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers that would be cool oh you also have to get success and falier sounds if a true vid game, you here a chime if you miss you hear a falling down sound then the classic death movie thing. At 09:43 p.m. 14/01/2009, you wrote: Hi, what I imagined was the lava bubbling and the stones bubbling just a bit differently and louder, so that you could tell their position in the lava. Well, after you realized what that sound represented. And either a sound that increased in pitch as you prepared yourself for the jump or there would be no such feature, that depends on whether there was a jump meter of any sort in Angel of Darkness. There was not as far as I remember. Once you landed on the stone, its bubbling sound, which would now be centered and quite loud, would start to decrease in pitch, meaning that it has been sinking. This would involve some trial and error, finding out and mistakes while the challenge could still be preserved, I think. Of course you would need a key, for example x for examine, that would describe the layout of the room or place to you aloud like in Terraformers, etc, while the game was paused at that time. This would not leave you absolutely stuck and clueless in an unknown environment. Do you get my point? I think this is a possibility for your future Tomb Hunter games. *smiles* Lukas - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 2:44 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers The only way I could see this working is to have some sort of general ambiance audio that gives one a hint as to how far they're jumping. Of course there'd be problems there, but it seems to me to be the most practical solution --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
Hi Thomas, I didn't know that games now had revolving video views and different hit points for different parts of the body etc. It has been a very long time since I could see a video game and I don't have anyone sighted around that plays them either. Sounds pretty good and realistic like you said. BFN Jim Some things have to be believed to be seen. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
Hi, Yeah. When I start into the full 3D Tomb Hunter games there is several traps or challenges I want to borrow from the Tomb Raider games and see if I can make them accessible. The room with the lava would be one of the more interesting traps to work on. Lukás Hosnedl wrote: Hi, what I imagined was the lava bubbling and the stones bubbling just a bit differently and louder, so that you could tell their position in the lava. Well, after you realized what that sound represented. And either a sound that increased in pitch as you prepared yourself for the jump or there would be no such feature, that depends on whether there was a jump meter of any sort in Angel of Darkness. There was not as far as I remember. Once you landed on the stone, its bubbling sound, which would now be centered and quite loud, would start to decrease in pitch, meaning that it has been sinking. This would involve some trial and error, finding out and mistakes while the challenge could still be preserved, I think. Of course you would need a key, for example x for examine, that would describe the layout of the room or place to you aloud like in Terraformers, etc, while the game was paused at that time. This would not leave you absolutely stuck and clueless in an unknown environment. Do you get my point? I think this is a possibility for your future Tomb Hunter games. *smiles* Lukas --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
Hi Thomas, I see a problem in reproducing the rocks in lava room. You could be in copyright infringement. I suggest giant marshmallows in a gigantic cup of hot chocolate. Or wood logs floating on a hot steaming Geyser. Or how about large blocks of ice on red hot coals. or, if you dare, The dying dissolving carcasses of elephants in a lake full of acid. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers Hi, Yeah. When I start into the full 3D Tomb Hunter games there is several traps or challenges I want to borrow from the Tomb Raider games and see if I can make them accessible. The room with the lava would be one of the more interesting traps to work on. Lukás Hosnedl wrote: Hi, what I imagined was the lava bubbling and the stones bubbling just a bit differently and louder, so that you could tell their position in the lava. Well, after you realized what that sound represented. And either a sound that increased in pitch as you prepared yourself for the jump or there would be no such feature, that depends on whether there was a jump meter of any sort in Angel of Darkness. There was not as far as I remember. Once you landed on the stone, its bubbling sound, which would now be centered and quite loud, would start to decrease in pitch, meaning that it has been sinking. This would involve some trial and error, finding out and mistakes while the challenge could still be preserved, I think. Of course you would need a key, for example x for examine, that would describe the layout of the room or place to you aloud like in Terraformers, etc, while the game was paused at that time. This would not leave you absolutely stuck and clueless in an unknown environment. Do you get my point? I think this is a possibility for your future Tomb Hunter games. *smiles* Lukas --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1894 - Release Date: 1/14/2009 7:27 PM --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
And if you miss-jump, the elephants will gore you. Jason On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 2:31 PM, Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net wrote: Hi Thomas, I see a problem in reproducing the rocks in lava room. You could be in copyright infringement. I suggest giant marshmallows in a gigantic cup of hot chocolate. Or wood logs floating on a hot steaming Geyser. Or how about large blocks of ice on red hot coals. or, if you dare, The dying dissolving carcasses of elephants in a lake full of acid. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers Hi, Yeah. When I start into the full 3D Tomb Hunter games there is several traps or challenges I want to borrow from the Tomb Raider games and see if I can make them accessible. The room with the lava would be one of the more interesting traps to work on. Lukás Hosnedl wrote: Hi, what I imagined was the lava bubbling and the stones bubbling just a bit differently and louder, so that you could tell their position in the lava. Well, after you realized what that sound represented. And either a sound that increased in pitch as you prepared yourself for the jump or there would be no such feature, that depends on whether there was a jump meter of any sort in Angel of Darkness. There was not as far as I remember. Once you landed on the stone, its bubbling sound, which would now be centered and quite loud, would start to decrease in pitch, meaning that it has been sinking. This would involve some trial and error, finding out and mistakes while the challenge could still be preserved, I think. Of course you would need a key, for example x for examine, that would describe the layout of the room or place to you aloud like in Terraformers, etc, while the game was paused at that time. This would not leave you absolutely stuck and clueless in an unknown environment. Do you get my point? I think this is a possibility for your future Tomb Hunter games. *smiles* Lukas --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.7/1894 - Release Date: 1/14/2009 7:27 PM --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
Hi Clement, That probably would work as well. Though I think the most practical solution in a fully accessible game is have something similar to the GMA scan/look key. When you press a key such as x it will say something like sinking rock to the left in 5 feet. Sinking rock ahead in 2 feet. Sinking rock behind in 7 feet. It would allow you to get a basic idea of how the rocks are laid out without compromising the difficulty or challenge of navigating the puzzle. You would still have to line them up and jump the correct distance before hopping onto the next rock in the room. Clement Chou wrote: The only way I could see this working is to have some sort of general ambiance audio that gives one a hint as to how far they're jumping. Of course there'd be problems there, but it seems to me to be the most practical solution. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
Hi John. I must admit, I'm incredibly doubtful about changing the minds of the mainstream game companies at all on this issue for the precise reasons you mention. Access costs money, big companies do not like spending money. while I fully support igda's efforts, and would be the first to jump in if something like world of warcraft became accessible, my expectations aren't high. Especially given that the two occasions I approached large companies, --- capcom and nintendo over some low vision access issues, they were both in different ways unhelpful. Capcom told me in no uncertain terms to get lost, and while nintendo were much more polite, unfortunatelly nintendo uk had absolutely no chance whatsoever of contacting the people in the company who made the decisions, --- which is mad! but believeable. this is why I think independent games are the way forward for access, and why I've put so much effort into chatting with devs over both Vi and low vision access issues. It does indeed drive me up the wall that I can't play games like Zelda, Ff or world of warcraft, but hopefully this way I can at least get something fun, like fallthrough! This didn't actually start out as a formal approach or idea, it was just me in 2002 trying out online games and politely asking devs if they could do x y and Z in order so that I could play them. yes though, I suppose now it has turned into a bit of a thing with me. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
Capcom really? I thought Capcom was a fan driven company. I entered accessible development for two main reasons. One, I have family members who are vision impaired and two, precisely because the market was small. The day Nintendo moves into accessible entertainment is the day me and many others are driven from it. We don't have million dollar focus groups and development teams. Personally, I like it. Its community driven. I hope my game is just one of many I develop. Dwarf Fortress proved that text games are still captivating to many people and that's all I really want. To captivate, even without text. Jason www.blind-games.com On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:15 PM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi John. I must admit, I'm incredibly doubtful about changing the minds of the mainstream game companies at all on this issue for the precise reasons you mention. Access costs money, big companies do not like spending money. while I fully support igda's efforts, and would be the first to jump in if something like world of warcraft became accessible, my expectations aren't high. Especially given that the two occasions I approached large companies, --- capcom and nintendo over some low vision access issues, they were both in different ways unhelpful. Capcom told me in no uncertain terms to get lost, and while nintendo were much more polite, unfortunatelly nintendo uk had absolutely no chance whatsoever of contacting the people in the company who made the decisions, --- which is mad! but believeable. this is why I think independent games are the way forward for access, and why I've put so much effort into chatting with devs over both Vi and low vision access issues. It does indeed drive me up the wall that I can't play games like Zelda, Ff or world of warcraft, but hopefully this way I can at least get something fun, like fallthrough! This didn't actually start out as a formal approach or idea, it was just me in 2002 trying out online games and politely asking devs if they could do x y and Z in order so that I could play them. yes though, I suppose now it has turned into a bit of a thing with me. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
Hi Jason. Yep, I phoned capcom Uk. It was deffinately over a low vision access issue, --- principley the fact that they didn't bother releasing the Mega man aniversary collection in the Uk. I wanted to talk to them, sinse basically this meant complete lack of 2D platformers for me to play. I was more hoping just to have a reasonable conversation than anything else, but was basically told that Capcom didn't care about Vi gaming, the markit wasn't right for the collection (completely balls as the entire staff of my local gamestation wanted copies), and had the phone slammed down on me. So much for fan driven! As it turned out there's a handy region hacking disk for the Gc which let me play the collection, but that's the last time i expect anything from Capcom. Nintendo were much nicer when I wanted to talk about Wii menue access, and we had a reasonable conversation, however they couldn't actually contact anyone in the company to help which was rather sad. As to text not being captivating, right now my brother is playing his way through the phenix right games on the Ds. These involve playing as a lawyer phenix right, investigating cases, then going through the trial. The trial involves selecting from a menue of questions and answers, and knowing when to object to what the opposition is saying, while the investigation involves talking to witnesses, yes talking! everything works via menue driven conversation pluss use of the objection button. You can use the Ds touch screen to examine objects, --- but mainly everything is text, yes, text! why my brother who is a lawyer would want to play games about being a lawyer is beyond me, --- but hay! So text is officially a captivating and used medium I think. Btw, for me, I don't actually mind what medium the game uses, graphics, (those games I can play), audio or text, --- in fact sinse I'm synaesthesic you could say all games have graphics for me, lol! Seriously, while I do occasionally play a quick action burst, what I mostly play for is exploration and the journey. This even counts arcade style games with new enemies or levels, or beat em ups with specific bosses. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
Hm. I've tried DF and really couldn't get anyware with it unfortunately. On Jan 13, 2009, at 5:31 AM, Jason Allen wrote: Capcom really? I thought Capcom was a fan driven company. I entered accessible development for two main reasons. One, I have family members who are vision impaired and two, precisely because the market was small. The day Nintendo moves into accessible entertainment is the day me and many others are driven from it. We don't have million dollar focus groups and development teams. Personally, I like it. Its community driven. I hope my game is just one of many I develop. Dwarf Fortress proved that text games are still captivating to many people and that's all I really want. To captivate, even without text. Jason www.blind-games.com On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:15 PM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi John. I must admit, I'm incredibly doubtful about changing the minds of the mainstream game companies at all on this issue for the precise reasons you mention. Access costs money, big companies do not like spending money. while I fully support igda's efforts, and would be the first to jump in if something like world of warcraft became accessible, my expectations aren't high. Especially given that the two occasions I approached large companies, --- capcom and nintendo over some low vision access issues, they were both in different ways unhelpful. Capcom told me in no uncertain terms to get lost, and while nintendo were much more polite, unfortunatelly nintendo uk had absolutely no chance whatsoever of contacting the people in the company who made the decisions, --- which is mad! but believeable. this is why I think independent games are the way forward for access, and why I've put so much effort into chatting with devs over both Vi and low vision access issues. It does indeed drive me up the wall that I can't play games like Zelda, Ff or world of warcraft, but hopefully this way I can at least get something fun, like fallthrough! This didn't actually start out as a formal approach or idea, it was just me in 2002 trying out online games and politely asking devs if they could do x y and Z in order so that I could play them. yes though, I suppose now it has turned into a bit of a thing with me. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
I sort of thought Df was an aski game, which personally I've never worked out an efficient way of playing, owing to the lack of a braille display. On the other hand, I've not tried any aski games sinse Hal V9 introduced the repeat punctuation and find in Vf functions, both of which I think would help in an aski game. I found Adom the least irritating to play, so I might try it again. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
I absolutely love Phoenix Wright. They're my favorite DS games of all time and I've played every one all the way through. Finishing the last Pheonix Wright was a sad, sad day. This list keeps bringing up absolute gems. What makes Pheonix Wright so great is the story. It's more like a modern text adventure. Pheonix Wright isn't accesible because the text isn't spoken though. There is so much text that the voice files wouldn't likely fit on a cartridge. Not to mention the cost involved. Story driven accessible games are hard to make because SAPI kills any emotion. It was pointed out not long ago that accesible games voice acting can kill a great story too. It's tough. I think the only way to do it would to get a professional voice actor (or a few) to donate their voices to a game. What I meant by text games in regards to Dwarf Fortress was ascii. Like nearly all roguelikes, it's ascii based. But the point was that even in an industry dominated by intense 3D graphics, DF was adored by the gaming community even though the graphics technology was as old as the home computer itself. I don't believe sound games have to play second fiddle to mainstream games. I think they're a great way to innovate. Jason www.blind-games.com On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:56 PM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: I sort of thought Df was an aski game, which personally I've never worked out an efficient way of playing, owing to the lack of a braille display. On the other hand, I've not tried any aski games sinse Hal V9 introduced the repeat punctuation and find in Vf functions, both of which I think would help in an aski game. I found Adom the least irritating to play, so I might try it again. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
Hi Jason. I've heard a lot about pheonix right from my brother, (he's also got the other series about appolo justice and miles edgeworth), Apparently their are on utube somewhere some actual voice acted plays of some of the phenix right cases, which I'd love to see just for the story. I'll have to check utube myself. I did once have a conversation with a friend of mine who did a degree in computer science about creating markers for emphasis in text files so as to produce more emotion in the voice. I must admit I'd always prefer actual voice acting myself, though sinse i've acquired scansoft daniel the sapi front is much more barable. It's probably just because I've got used to orphius, but I do find some of the tts voices do detract from things. In the matter of voice acting though, having done fairly serious ameter light opera for a number of years, I'm amazed at the amount of very good ameter actors who are around. I'd of course be very happy to voice act myself, I have a digital recorder, but given the fact I've seen some exceptional quality ameter acting (and some awful stuff too but that's not the point), you probably could find some voice actors who could do the job if you asked and auditioned. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Jason Allen evildi...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers I absolutely love Phoenix Wright. They're my favorite DS games of all time and I've played every one all the way through. Finishing the last Pheonix Wright was a sad, sad day. This list keeps bringing up absolute gems. What makes Pheonix Wright so great is the story. It's more like a modern text adventure. Pheonix Wright isn't accesible because the text isn't spoken though. There is so much text that the voice files wouldn't likely fit on a cartridge. Not to mention the cost involved. Story driven accessible games are hard to make because SAPI kills any emotion. It was pointed out not long ago that accesible games voice acting can kill a great story too. It's tough. I think the only way to do it would to get a professional voice actor (or a few) to donate their voices to a game. What I meant by text games in regards to Dwarf Fortress was ascii. Like nearly all roguelikes, it's ascii based. But the point was that even in an industry dominated by intense 3D graphics, DF was adored by the gaming community even though the graphics technology was as old as the home computer itself. I don't believe sound games have to play second fiddle to mainstream games. I think they're a great way to innovate. Jason www.blind-games.com On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:56 PM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: I sort of thought Df was an aski game, which personally I've never worked out an efficient way of playing, owing to the lack of a braille display. On the other hand, I've not tried any aski games sinse Hal V9 introduced the repeat punctuation and find in Vf functions, both of which I think would help in an aski game. I found Adom the least irritating to play, so I might try it again. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
Hi Thomas, I could imagine the the lava rocks in your example could make a sound or more importantly say how far away they are from you. Thus by their distance you could center one in the middle before jumping to it. Of course you would need some kind of jump meter to gage how far you jump. For example, the lava stone off to your right is saying 5 feet, so you hit the 5 foot jumping key or hit the get ready to jump key and it counts up 1, 2, 3, 4, and when it hits 5 you press the jump button. The game calculates how far you are on the 5 foot mark by tenths of a second, then places you at that spot and determines if you have landed on the stone. Of course the sinking of the stones would have to be slower, allowing you to aim at the next stone and jump. All this would not be necessary in a sighted only game. Phil - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 5:58 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers Hi Dakotah, Well said. My thoughts exactly. As a game developer myself i certainly know many games can be made accessible. on the other hand there are limits to how far I can go with accessibility. Obviously anything specifically requiring vision won't work at all. Often times there is simply no sound for a certain item, object, etc. Sometimes the design of the level is such that it is hard if not impossible to navigate while being blind. A case in point. In Tomb Raider Angel of Darkness there is a room in the Hall of Seasons filled with lava. There are little stones jutting up out of the lava you can use to jump onto to get across the lava. however, they are at such odd angles I have never managed to get lined up correctly to jump on to them. Plus when you land on one it starts to sink meaning once you get over the lava, get the crystals, you can not use the same stones coming back across. There are sighted gamers that have troubles playing that level, and it is impossible for a blind person to play it without some serious sighted help. I've tried coming up with my own accessible version of that level and it isn't easy. If a company was really going to make the game accessible it would be better to just scrub the entire level or line all the stones up in a row or something. That would in turn defeat the challenge for sighted players. There is only so much we can ask for before companies tell us point blank accessibility can't be done without sacrificing large portions of the games replay value. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
Couple of things. First of all, I would absolutely love to see a Pheonix Wright type game. Some good friends of mine decided to create some cases similar to those in the game and we took turns playing them out. This is an old standby that is really fun, if you've got good buddies like that. Another things is this. Voice acting has seen serious controversy on-list because people record different things at different times in different ways. I can understand how this might work, but it isn't as big a deal as all that, if a developer gets together what they need all at once and leaves it at that. I know that this can be sort of hard, what with the changing nature of games in development, but I would rather do too much than too little. The trick would be getting everyone's audio files to come out the same quality, but making simple prerequisites an order would solve most of this. I myself would love to do some voice acting for anyone who asked. I have what some have described as a talent for different accents and voice qualities, much of this praise coming from people whose differing vocal qualities I was immitating. If people need voice actors, we could either audition on-list for talent or maybe even ask some of the guys from places like Darker Projects for some voice acting. Not everyone there is excellent, but many are. Signed: Dakotah Rickard On 1/13/09, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Jason. I've heard a lot about pheonix right from my brother, (he's also got the other series about appolo justice and miles edgeworth), Apparently their are on utube somewhere some actual voice acted plays of some of the phenix right cases, which I'd love to see just for the story. I'll have to check utube myself. I did once have a conversation with a friend of mine who did a degree in computer science about creating markers for emphasis in text files so as to produce more emotion in the voice. I must admit I'd always prefer actual voice acting myself, though sinse i've acquired scansoft daniel the sapi front is much more barable. It's probably just because I've got used to orphius, but I do find some of the tts voices do detract from things. In the matter of voice acting though, having done fairly serious ameter light opera for a number of years, I'm amazed at the amount of very good ameter actors who are around. I'd of course be very happy to voice act myself, I have a digital recorder, but given the fact I've seen some exceptional quality ameter acting (and some awful stuff too but that's not the point), you probably could find some voice actors who could do the job if you asked and auditioned. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Jason Allen evildi...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers I absolutely love Phoenix Wright. They're my favorite DS games of all time and I've played every one all the way through. Finishing the last Pheonix Wright was a sad, sad day. This list keeps bringing up absolute gems. What makes Pheonix Wright so great is the story. It's more like a modern text adventure. Pheonix Wright isn't accesible because the text isn't spoken though. There is so much text that the voice files wouldn't likely fit on a cartridge. Not to mention the cost involved. Story driven accessible games are hard to make because SAPI kills any emotion. It was pointed out not long ago that accesible games voice acting can kill a great story too. It's tough. I think the only way to do it would to get a professional voice actor (or a few) to donate their voices to a game. What I meant by text games in regards to Dwarf Fortress was ascii. Like nearly all roguelikes, it's ascii based. But the point was that even in an industry dominated by intense 3D graphics, DF was adored by the gaming community even though the graphics technology was as old as the home computer itself. I don't believe sound games have to play second fiddle to mainstream games. I think they're a great way to innovate. Jason www.blind-games.com On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:56 PM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: I sort of thought Df was an aski game, which personally I've never worked out an efficient way of playing, owing to the lack of a braille display. On the other hand, I've not tried any aski games sinse Hal V9 introduced the repeat punctuation and find in Vf functions, both of which I think would help in an aski game. I found Adom the least irritating to play, so I might try it again. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
Hi, That is all too true. What most people fail to realise is there is a lot of indifference to accessibility, because most people simply aren't aware that we can even use a computer let alone play games etc. Here is a case in point. How many of you have gone to a job fair, showed up for an interview, etc and the person interviewing you doesn't have a clue how you use the computer? If you depend on a state agency like devision of blind services to setup the interview they will lay the ground work letting them know what technology you require as a blind user to conduct your job. However, if you setup the interview, meeting, yourself in my experience the majority of people have never heard of Jaws for Windows, Window Eyes, Openbook, and several other programs we take for granted. I think many of us are so familiar with programs like Jaws, and assume everyone knows about them too. That isn't true. I remember a case in point where I showed up for an interview. It was a short contract job where I would do some programming for a company on a short term basis. The interviewer asked me straight out how i would conduct my job if I couldn't see the screen, and by asking implied I couldn't use a computer as a result. Fortunately I came prepared for the question and took out my laptop and gave a live demonstration on the spot of Jaws and Window Eyes. He was suprised and amazed he had never heard of it before. That's what I mean by people, highly educated, etc just are simply unaware of us and really don't know how we use a computer let alone how they could make something like an accessible vidio game. John Bannick wrote: Jason, Developers don't make their games blind-accessible because: 1. They don't think about it. 2. They work for business people who want to maximize (or even achieve) profit. I've been coding user interfaces, including games, professionally for 30 years. It's rare to get any direction at all from management. Usually they just want to tweak button colors or locations at the end of a project. And I know lots of programmers. Absolutely zero of whom, with the exception of this and a couple of other related forums, are even aware of accessibility issues. Also. Making a program accessible adds roughly 20% to its time and cost. Since most projects are late, and most game companies are not even profitable, ... well, you get my drift. That being said, some good folks over at the IGDA Game Accessibilty SIG are trying to address at least problem 1. Mark Barlet at ablegamers.com is also doing some good industry-bugging. And there are some good folks on this forum: Thomas, Jim, Liam, Che, etc. come to mind, who are building good stuff. BTW. Some current research we're doing suggests that there are probably more blind-accessible games than motion-impaired accessible, or deaf accessible, or cognitively-impaired accessible games. I like Dark's approach. If a game could be made blind-accessible, and the developer company is small enough to give a hoot, ask them for changes. Which is not to say you don't have a legitimate beef. It truly sucks to be locked out of some otherwise good stuff. John Bannick Chief Technology Officer 7-128 Software --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
Hi Jim and all, It is not just that there are a lot of graphics to deal with, but modern games often allow you to change the camera angle to see the same screen from a different angle or point of view. The full 3D games especially do this as it is easier to see the same thing from multiple points of view depending on your position and relationship to the items on the screen. There are also other factors to consider in modern games like where exactly to shoot an enemy. Many games allow you to do more or less damage to an enemy depending on where you shoot them. This is, I am afraid to say, very very visual in nature and difficult to translate into an accessible format. The day where you just fire your weapon and the little alien, spaceship, etc blows up is over. Games today are much more complicated and more advanced. Specific hitpoints based on a bodypart or area is alot more difficult, but it is also more realistic. Jim Kitchen wrote: Hi Matt and Ron, One of the problems is, video games are by design visual. When I could still see to play them, they were fairly simple. These days there is so much going on on the screen visually that even if you could label the graphics, there are so many of them and they are moving around constantly, there would be no way you could keep up with it all. I don't like to say this, but with sight one can get so so much more input in a glance then one can by sound alone. BFN Jim Cranial Input Error: Line Status Register 02 j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
Hi Phil, Yeah, that might work for making that level accessible, but it also is a case in point where that accessibility comes at a cost to the sighted gamer. While your method might make that level easy enough for us to play it would dramatically reduce the skill level required to play that level for sighted players too. i'm afraid many die-hard gamers would find it way too easy and boring. mainstream game companies would likely have to remove some of the difficulties in a level like that to make it accessible. A jump meter is way too easy for a sighted gamer. In general in games like Angel of Darkness most of the challenge is being able to jump correctly from ledge to ledge, over lava pits, etc. Even for sighted gamers it is tricky, difficult, and requires not just a little skill. Perfect timing and good handling is everything. Your jump meter is a good solution for a blind gamer, but isn't a desirable feature for a sighted gamer. It would negate the hours of practice required to get through level x because all one would need to do is wait until the jump meter reached the correct distance and go for it. It also might negate the fact that most of these traps are puzzles that need solving. One little mistake can screw the entire puzzle up and you have to start over from scratch. So a gamer has to be able to make mistakes when doing the jumps or it defeats the puzzle. Phil Vlasak wrote: Hi Thomas, I could imagine the the lava rocks in your example could make a sound or more importantly say how far away they are from you. Thus by their distance you could center one in the middle before jumping to it. Of course you would need some kind of jump meter to gage how far you jump. For example, the lava stone off to your right is saying 5 feet, so you hit the 5 foot jumping key or hit the get ready to jump key and it counts up 1, 2, 3, 4, and when it hits 5 you press the jump button. The game calculates how far you are on the 5 foot mark by tenths of a second, then places you at that spot and determines if you have landed on the stone. Of course the sinking of the stones would have to be slower, allowing you to aim at the next stone and jump. All this would not be necessary in a sighted only game. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
The only way I could see this working is to have some sort of general ambiance audio that gives one a hint as to how far they're jumping. Of course there'd be problems there, but it seems to me to be the most practical solution. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 4:45 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers Hi Phil, Yeah, that might work for making that level accessible, but it also is a case in point where that accessibility comes at a cost to the sighted gamer. While your method might make that level easy enough for us to play it would dramatically reduce the skill level required to play that level for sighted players too. i'm afraid many die-hard gamers would find it way too easy and boring. mainstream game companies would likely have to remove some of the difficulties in a level like that to make it accessible. A jump meter is way too easy for a sighted gamer. In general in games like Angel of Darkness most of the challenge is being able to jump correctly from ledge to ledge, over lava pits, etc. Even for sighted gamers it is tricky, difficult, and requires not just a little skill. Perfect timing and good handling is everything. Your jump meter is a good solution for a blind gamer, but isn't a desirable feature for a sighted gamer. It would negate the hours of practice required to get through level x because all one would need to do is wait until the jump meter reached the correct distance and go for it. It also might negate the fact that most of these traps are puzzles that need solving. One little mistake can screw the entire puzzle up and you have to start over from scratch. So a gamer has to be able to make mistakes when doing the jumps or it defeats the puzzle. Phil Vlasak wrote: Hi Thomas, I could imagine the the lava rocks in your example could make a sound or more importantly say how far away they are from you. Thus by their distance you could center one in the middle before jumping to it. Of course you would need some kind of jump meter to gage how far you jump. For example, the lava stone off to your right is saying 5 feet, so you hit the 5 foot jumping key or hit the get ready to jump key and it counts up 1, 2, 3, 4, and when it hits 5 you press the jump button. The game calculates how far you are on the 5 foot mark by tenths of a second, then places you at that spot and determines if you have landed on the stone. Of course the sinking of the stones would have to be slower, allowing you to aim at the next stone and jump. All this would not be necessary in a sighted only game. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
Hi Jason, It is a lot more complicated than you perhaps realize. There is a lot more involved than a choice to have or not have accessibility. You and others might find this difficult to except, but there are some things that can never be and never will be accessible to us for a number of reasons. First, there is a lot that goes on in mainstream games that can't be described or made accessible because it requires sight to play. In the Tomb Raider games there are a variety of puzzles that you absolutely have to have sight for in order to solve them. It is not a matter that adding sounds could fix, and we can't expect a developer to take the puzzle out of the game just because a blind person can' not see to solve the puzzle. Second, it is a fact that blind gamers, on average, play slower than our sighted counterparts. We depend so much on audio that we have to listen to our health, location, direction, etc to get anything meaningful out of the game. Often times the game is paused while we do this. Most sighted gamers would hate it, and it would lead to complaints about game x unless said feature could be turned off. In an online game setting sighted gamers would always have an advantage over us. Third we haven't even talked about cost. If we wanted accessib ility features such as a built in TTS Engine every Play Station, Wii, XBox would have to be completely redesigned to offer a variety of accesssibility features in their development kits. Then, game companies would have to update x number of games, game engines, etc to meett the new accessibility standards. We are talking about millions of dollars spent in research and development to meet accessibility standards. Frankly financially it probably isn't worth it to big companies. it would cost them more to create the technology then they are likely to get back in sales. Fourth, it would matter very little if a developers family member went blind. Most of the programmers work for a company and it is their bosses that make the decisions. They often have very little choice about things like accessibility features unless the heads of the company make it a polacy to do so. Besides I think you and I both know in general people have negative stereotypes about blindness anyway. Blindness is seen as some horrable disability where the person is either a superman or totally helpless. If you do something they think is amazing you are Superman. If you are unable to do something simple they might view you as helpless. Even in college I was around college educated people who were absolutely, totally, unbelievably ignorant of what I could and could not do as a blind person. It is a variety of stereotypes, myths, etc that hold us back because the general public is just ignorant about our needs and wants. Even if they become aware of it we are too small a minority to be financially worth their while. jason wrote: I have a question why is it so hard for a developer to make their games accessible for disabilities. it's just to hard to go out of their way to do this. , or we just a minority? I mean video games have been out for years now, and you would think they would get the hint? wow it's amazing what people think sometimes. I guess it has to happen to them, meaning to have one of their family members have a disability in order to get something accomplished for us. Sincerely, Jason known as Blind Fury windowslive contact kb3...@msn.com skype contact kb3icc --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
Hi, The don't call us we will call you mentality is the usual responce from major corperations. Let's face the truth. They don't want to hear from us. We are simply an annoying minority to them. The Kolesar Brothers wrote: Now this is true. Why must everything have to be special? Now let's blind fold the 99 percent who don't have a blind family member, a blind friend or doesn't work with a blind person. With phisical force feedback, I wished that the wei system was blind friendly. I even offered to beta test their system for them and give feedback from a blind consumer. But their responce was don't call us we'll call you. So that's my two cents on this thread. Matt Ron Kolesar there great Dogs! kolesar16...@roadrunner.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about video game developers
Hi Dakotah, Well said. My thoughts exactly. As a game developer myself i certainly know many games can be made accessible. on the other hand there are limits to how far I can go with accessibility. Obviously anything specifically requiring vision won't work at all. Often times there is simply no sound for a certain item, object, etc. Sometimes the design of the level is such that it is hard if not impossible to navigate while being blind. A case in point. In Tomb Raider Angel of Darkness there is a room in the Hall of Seasons filled with lava. There are little stones jutting up out of the lava you can use to jump onto to get across the lava. however, they are at such odd angles I have never managed to get lined up correctly to jump on to them. Plus when you land on one it starts to sink meaning once you get over the lava, get the crystals, you can not use the same stones coming back across. There are sighted gamers that have troubles playing that level, and it is impossible for a blind person to play it without some serious sighted help. I've tried coming up with my own accessible version of that level and it isn't easy. If a company was really going to make the game accessible it would be better to just scrub the entire level or line all the stones up in a row or something. That would in turn defeat the challenge for sighted players. There is only so much we can ask for before companies tell us point blank accessibility can't be done without sacrificing large portions of the games replay value. Dakotah Rickard wrote: I agree that there are many games which would only require slight tweeking to make them accessible, there are many more which would require an overhaul of the entire game structure. Consider the popular game, The Sims. If one wanted to make that accessible, first of all, they would have to find a way to label anything and everything in the game somehow. There would have to be an enormous amount of keystrokes, which I've found most people don't like, and you'd have to slow down the game clock to get everyone to be able to do what they need to do. Many of the developers of the world aren't big developers, percentage-wise, but almost every game you see on store shelves was released by a company. If you're part of a company, it doesn't matter whether you have no blind family members or come home to a completely blind wife, kids, dog, and toaster oven. You do what the companyies' higher-ups say. If the higher-ups have blind family members, they know that it sucks that there aren't many games for the blind, but they have a company to run. Let's face it. We are a minority. Not only are we a minority, we're a hard minority to grasp, because it's not based on ethnicity or creed or anything like that. Some people, from every population, are simply blind. So, if you take the fact that making some mainstream games accessible is a project that would either be impossible or would take the fun out of the games, combined with the industrially required indifference of big companies, we either need to get all the developers of accessible games together into one company that has loads of talent working for it, or we need to rely on individual developers to do the best they can. I'm not saying that it's impossible for big companies to eventually consider us when making games, but it's going to be a while, and there are some games that, I believe, we are going to have to accept that we just can't play. It kind of sucks, but there it is. Signed: Dakotah Rickard --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
