Re: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one big aspect
Hi, I think the real challenge here is not getting two input devices to control two separate entities at the same time--this is very easily done if the game is coded properly and made to accomodate very generic input from the start--rather, preventing one player from being confused by another's audio output would be difficult. For instance, if SAPI outputs some messages, unless each player uses a different voice, it would be difficult to tell whose status the engine is outputting. Even if the game uses two different voices for both players, and say if player 1 issues a status command and player 2 does the same, player 1's status would be cut off (since in real time games it would give player 1 and unfair advantage if player 2 has to wait for player 1's status to finish.) In contrast, in visual games, sound is not that big of a deal, and splitting the screen into player 1 and player 2 areas is not difficult to do--this is how the Nintendo 64 did it with 007: Golden Eye when you initiated multiplayer mode; which made it easy to hook up four controllers at the same time and play without any problems. The audio equivalent of this, I would think, is to have the user install two sound cards, and both players wear headsets plugged into either card. Player 1's sound output would come out of card 1, and likewise for player 2. However, the question then arises as to whether the user is willing to spend the money to buy two cards (or one card, since the computer most likely already has one sound card) which will cost about $100, on top of the extra keyboard or joystick for a second input device, on top of the price of the game, which would probably be $30.00 minimum. As a developer, all this has to be factored in and you get to your final answer of is it worth it to implement this technology? Based on how the market currently is, probably not. Munawar A. Bijani Are you certain you will awaken from bed tomorrow? mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.bpcprograms.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: gamers gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 4:23 AM Subject: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one big aspect HI all while watching my favorite soapie I heard in the story that a mother and her son is playing a psp game together. I have no idea what the genre is, I guess its 3d or side scroller. both of them have a joystick AND THEY TRY TO BEAT ONE ANOTHER. IT WILL BE VERY NICE IF 2 PEOPLE COULD PLAY AN AUDIO GAME TOGETHER. IT WILL BE NICE, IF ME AND MY MOTHER COULD PLAY SUPER DEEKOUT FOR INSTANCE. MY MOTHER IS FULLY SIGHTED BUT i CAN EASILY TEACH HER TO GET USED TO PLAYING A GAME WITH ONLY SOUNDS. THE ONLY GAME i KNOW OF WHERE 2 PEOPLE CAN PLAY SIMULTANEOUSLY IS SNOWBALL WAR BUT YOU AND YOUR MATE HAVE TO USE THE SAME KEYBOARD IS IT POSSIBLE TO MAKE AN AUDIO GAME WHERE YOU CAN CONNECT 2 KEYBOARDS TO A PC SO THAT 2 PEOPLE CAN PLAY SIMULTANEOUSLY? FOR example, the 2 people can see which of them can get to a coin first, who of them can first get to a spawned item, etc. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one big aspect
Hi, Well, Snowball War isn't the only accessible game that has a built in two player mode. I know, for instance, Jim Kitchen's Monopoly will allow you to set it up for two player mode. I believe his Life game will also let you play against a computer or a human player. As far as two player live action games like Super Liam, Super Deecout, Troopenum, etc it is certainly possible to have a developer create a two player mode. However, i don't know if it is possible to use two individual keyboards. I do know DirectX will allow you to use up to four USB joysticks or game pads which is the recommended way for handling two player games under Windows. As far as sharing the keyboard goes it is possible to do tha if the game were set up like a classic Atari game. That is as soon as one player dies it then switches to player 2. You would pass the keyboard to her she tries, and if she dies it goes back to you until you both are whiped out. That is another way of doing it if you wanted to know. Cheers. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one big aspect
Hi Munawar, Those are some very good points. About the only way to avoid such an instance where a person would have to purchase an extra sound card or a controller is make the two player mode turn based like in the classic Atari games. Take a game like Packman. Player 1 would start out zoom around the maze, and if his/her Packman got eaten by a ghost the game then would speak a message like player 2. Then, player 2 would play until his/her Packman got eaten. Then, it is once again player 1's turn to play. This is really the only logical way to do it for an audio only game I think. Munawar Bijani wrote: Hi, I think the real challenge here is not getting two input devices to control two separate entities at the same time--this is very easily done if the game is coded properly and made to accomodate very generic input from the start--rather, preventing one player from being confused by another's audio output would be difficult. For instance, if SAPI outputs some messages, unless each player uses a different voice, it would be difficult to tell whose status the engine is outputting. Even if the game uses two different voices for both players, and say if player 1 issues a status command and player 2 does the same, player 1's status would be cut off (since in real time games it would give player 1 and unfair advantage if player 2 has to wait for player 1's status to finish.) In contrast, in visual games, sound is not that big of a deal, and splitting the screen into player 1 and player 2 areas is not difficult to do--this is how the Nintendo 64 did it with 007: Golden Eye when you initiated multiplayer mode; which made it easy to hook up four controllers at the same time and play without any problems. The audio equivalent of this, I would think, is to have the user install two sound cards, and both players wear headsets plugged into either card. Player 1's sound output would come out of card 1, and likewise for player 2. However, the question then arises as to whether the user is willing to spend the money to buy two cards (or one card, since the computer most likely already has one sound card) which will cost about $100, on top of the extra keyboard or joystick for a second input device, on top of the price of the game, which would probably be $30.00 minimum. As a developer, all this has to be factored in and you get to your final answer of is it worth it to implement this technology? Based on how the market currently is, probably not. Munawar A. Bijani Are you certain you will awaken from bed tomorrow? mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.bpcprograms.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one big aspect
Better yet, why not use net play. I mean come on most people now and days have two computers. Heck, I got 15 computers in this house hold alone. Any way, net play or lan play how ever you want to call it should be included in games. And have at least two keys when you buy a game if it is a two player. Matt. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 6:58 AM To: Munawar Bijani; Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one big aspect Hi Munawar, Those are some very good points. About the only way to avoid such an instance where a person would have to purchase an extra sound card or a controller is make the two player mode turn based like in the classic Atari games. Take a game like Packman. Player 1 would start out zoom around the maze, and if his/her Packman got eaten by a ghost the game then would speak a message like player 2. Then, player 2 would play until his/her Packman got eaten. Then, it is once again player 1's turn to play. This is really the only logical way to do it for an audio only game I think. Munawar Bijani wrote: Hi, I think the real challenge here is not getting two input devices to control two separate entities at the same time--this is very easily done if the game is coded properly and made to accomodate very generic input from the start--rather, preventing one player from being confused by another's audio output would be difficult. For instance, if SAPI outputs some messages, unless each player uses a different voice, it would be difficult to tell whose status the engine is outputting. Even if the game uses two different voices for both players, and say if player 1 issues a status command and player 2 does the same, player 1's status would be cut off (since in real time games it would give player 1 and unfair advantage if player 2 has to wait for player 1's status to finish.) In contrast, in visual games, sound is not that big of a deal, and splitting the screen into player 1 and player 2 areas is not difficult to do--this is how the Nintendo 64 did it with 007: Golden Eye when you initiated multiplayer mode; which made it easy to hook up four controllers at the same time and play without any problems. The audio equivalent of this, I would think, is to have the user install two sound cards, and both players wear headsets plugged into either card. Player 1's sound output would come out of card 1, and likewise for player 2. However, the question then arises as to whether the user is willing to spend the money to buy two cards (or one card, since the computer most likely already has one sound card) which will cost about $100, on top of the extra keyboard or joystick for a second input device, on top of the price of the game, which would probably be $30.00 minimum. As a developer, all this has to be factored in and you get to your final answer of is it worth it to implement this technology? Based on how the market currently is, probably not. Munawar A. Bijani Are you certain you will awaken from bed tomorrow? mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.bpcprograms.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one big aspect
Hi Matthew, I agree that network or peer to peer play is probably the best for todays multi-player games, but if you want to play against someone else in your own house hold that can be quite expensive. That would require at least two or more computers to be present on an internal lan inorder to play the same game against each other. What Nicol was looking for was the ability to compete against each other on the same computer. For people like us who have at least 5 computers in our house sitting around the idea of setting up an internal lan to play games is just fine. However, not everyone is as fortunate to have that many computers. Some are lucky to have one good computer let alone two or more. You must keep in mind we are a bit of a minority when it comes to having extra computers just laying around waiting to be used for something. K. Matthew wrote: Better yet, why not use net play. I mean come on most people now and days have two computers. Heck, I got 15 computers in this house hold alone. Any way, net play or lan play how ever you want to call it should be included in games. And have at least two keys when you buy a game if it is a two player. Matt. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one big aspect
hmm. depends if you live in the same house as someone or you live alone. I have 3 systems here, well 4, my system and its backup, my brothers system and my dad's box and its backup. I also could if I really needed to have access to an extra laptop andaccess to another desktop if I wished. so I would still have enough systems. At 04:20 a.m. 26/10/2008, you wrote: Hi Matthew, I agree that network or peer to peer play is probably the best for todays multi-player games, but if you want to play against someone else in your own house hold that can be quite expensive. That would require at least two or more computers to be present on an internal lan inorder to play the same game against each other. What Nicol was looking for was the ability to compete against each other on the same computer. For people like us who have at least 5 computers in our house sitting around the idea of setting up an internal lan to play games is just fine. However, not everyone is as fortunate to have that many computers. Some are lucky to have one good computer let alone two or more. You must keep in mind we are a bit of a minority when it comes to having extra computers just laying around waiting to be used for something. K. Matthew wrote: Better yet, why not use net play. I mean come on most people now and days have two computers. Heck, I got 15 computers in this house hold alone. Any way, net play or lan play how ever you want to call it should be included in games. And have at least two keys when you buy a game if it is a two player. Matt. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one big aspect
Your forgetting one thing on the keyboard aspect. hmm, BIOS, if you hook up two keyboards they will act as one. For it to work you would have to go keyboard specific and that is hard to do with a lot of keyboards listed as generic in the driver list. That is why joy sticks came to be. At 11:49 AM 10/25/2008, you wrote: Hi, Yeah, I know. I'm not sure DirectX will allow a game to poll from multiple keyboards though. I suppose you could create multiple keyboard objects, and then you could enumerate all the keyboards so the keyboard objects are not pointing to the same keyboard device. It is theoretically possible, but I don't think it would be worth it in the end. There probably isn't enough people with partners to play against to make such a feature necessary. Terrence van Ettinger AKA Angus MacLaren wrote: I know that several computers have the ability to connect two keyboards; seems that it'd just be a matter of adding the capability into the game itself. Terrence --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tim trouble Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance. --Sam Brown Blindeudora list owner. To subscribe or info: http://www.freelists.org/webpage/blindeudora --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
