From: "Vikram" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue Jan 3, 2006 5:01 pm
Subject: Re: GB New Year Eve Bash: A rip-off for non alcholics vgd67
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"Jayesh D." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"Non-alcoholics (those who don't consume alcoholic beverages at GB
Parties) always get an unfair deal at GB parties but for them
yesterday's New Year Bash was a total rip-off. In a deluge of
expensive booze available at no extra cost, non-alcoholics (hence
forth referred to as NAs) had to shell out more for every drop of
comparative cheaper fruit-juice and mineral water. The only thing
that NA's could consume unlimited were the so-called 'aerated
waters'."
Are you including soft drinks in aerated waters? Because regular
(not diet) soft drinks were certainly available as part of the
package. And I don't know why your Coke was warm Rani, because ice
was not in short supply.
OK, being a bit more serious now, I will acknowledge that in general
you have a point. GB hasn't been that fair to non-drinkers and we
are certainly not consistent about following up promises of
mocktails. There are reasons for this, which I'll get into in a
moment, but I accept your point that we haven't been fair here.
I do want to point out though that I don't see why you have such
grounds for complaint about this New Years party. Unlike most
parties where we might give assurances, which aren't honoured, at
this party we were quite clear in advance what would and would not
be available. And mocktails, fruit juices, diet sodas, Red Bull and
mineral water were not.
I specifically remember writing on these lists that this was the
result of our negotiations with the management for a package that
could include unlimited drinks and food. In return for agreeing to
this, the management insisted on taking some items off the list and
these were the marginally more expensive items like fruit juices and
diet sodas.
Their argument was that with the small margins they were working on,
they couldn't risk making an unlimited offer on this, and for better
or worse we accepted that. Any negotiations over the organisation of
an event on this scale is going to involve compromises and this is
where we decided to do so.
You can fairly accuse us of shortselling non-drinkers by doing this,
but you can't say you didn't know. For this party what was on offer
was made clear in advance. It seems a bit sad that your entire
experience of this party, which others seem to have really enjoyed,
was conditioned by the non-availability of non-alcoholic drinks, but
if it was so important, than shouldn't you have spared yourself the
agony and just not come?
Jayesh wrote:
"A further more unfair option available to NA's was to exchange 2
drink coupons for a fruit juice served in 180 - 200 ml. glass again
topped with ice. The retail price of a 500 ml carton if Real fruit
juice costs Rs. 90/-. Yesterday, the juice that was earlier included
in the cover/entry charge had to be bought at Rs. 50/-."
You can't compare fruit juices to alcoholic drinks because the
volume consumed per drink of the former is more than of the latter.
A litre of fruit juice is going to go in 4-5 glasses, whereas a
litre of vodka is going to last for 15-20 glasses. Propotionately
fruit juices are more expensive to serve per glass and that is why
they are treated separately by most hotels.
>From what I know of the hospitality business, I think there are
other reasons why non-alcoholic drinks, apart from regular soft
drinks, provide problems for clubs (but Dee's more professional
inputs would be appreciated here). There's the greater cost, and if
one tries to economise by making mocktails in bulk there is the
problem of both the effort to do so and the fact that such drinks
aren't as easily stored.
Since its not as easy predicting how many people will want
mocktails, its hard for clubs to decide how much to prepare in
advance. And since most of the stuff won't keep that easily, the
excess is thrown away, causing much more wastage than with alcoholic
drinks which can be kept for the next party. Its a fact that
mocktails are a pain for clubs, which is why they prefer not to do
them.
This is not trying to excuse ourselves for not providing them when
they are promised (I am not talking about the New Years party here,
when they weren't promised). Our aim with these parties is to
produce an experience that is good for both the clients and the
clubs, so that we are assured of support from both in the future. I
accept that in this process, and with our general lack of time, we
may have been too easy on the clubs in this matter. We can only
promise to try better in the coming year.
Jayesh wrote:
"In an era where in alcoholic beverages are the preferred drinks, I
see no logic in taxing people who do not consume them. Rather it
makes more business sense to charge more for something that more in
demand than for something that isn't."
Huh? Niche products are always charged more because of the greater
expense of time and effort in making them available. That's the way
it is.
Jayesh wrote:
"At the entrance to Karma the venue for the GB New Year Eve Bash,
hung a placard saying, "Don't Drink & Drive" But sobriety had to
come for an additional cost. This sounds synonymous to saying "Don't
indulge in unprotected sex, use a condom" and than you sell a condom
at an exaggerated price. This in-turn also means GB promotes
consumption of alcohol, drunken driving and resultant accidents and
deaths, while it taxes the virtues of sobriety."
OK, till now I have been sympathetic since GB have clearly slipped
up in not providing non-alcoholic drinks as regularly as promised.
But with this statement of yours my sympathy disappears because you
are moving from a justified complaint, to a moralising stance that I
don't think is justified.
The "Don't Drink & Drive" sign at the entrance to Karma means what
it says - a suggestion to patrons to take taxis or trains home if
they are going to drink. I don't see how it was an argument for
sobriety, rather than just a practical suggestion that most patrons
took. I don't see how GB or Karma does, or should in any way get
into preventing people from drinking moderately if they should so
choose (and most of our crowd are moderate drinkers).
You argue that by implicitly encouraging drinking "GB promotes
consumption of alcohol, drunken driving and resultant accidents and
deaths". Explain to me how qualitatively how that statement differs
from the arguments of people who argue against the removal of
section 377 of the Indian Penal Code because by doing so we would
encourage homosexuality and in doing so encourage the spread of AIDS?
Vikram
===================================================================================================================================
From: "Jayesh D." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sun Jan 1, 2006 2:57 pm
Subject: GB New Year Eve Bash: A rip-off for non alcholics
de_joy
Non-alcoholics (those who don't consume alcoholic beverages at GB
Parties) always get an unfair deal at GB parties but for them
yesterday's New Year Bash was a total rip-off. In a deluge of
expensive booze available at no extra cost, non-alcoholics (hence
forth referred to as NAs) had to shell out more for every drop of
comparative cheaper fruit-juice and mineral water. The only thing
that NA's could consume unlimited were the so-called 'aerated
waters'.
I am not using words like 'rip-off' to sensationalise the issue. I
can certainly justify how this New Year Eve Party has crossed new
frontiers and set new benchmarks of deprivation of value for money
for the NAs. At other GB parties held earlier, one would get 4 drink
coupons against the cover/entry charge. Each coupon valued is at Rs.
50/-. In exchange for a Rs. 50/- coupon one could get either a 30
ml. alcoholic drink topped with a mixer the total value of which
must be an estimated Rs. 25/- to Rs. 35/-. Or a non-alcoholic (NA)
could opt for aerated water served in a 180 - 200 ml. glass along
with a topping of ice. The retail price of a 250 - 300 ml bottle of
any aerated water is Rs. 10/-. A further more unfair option
available to NA's was to exchange 2 drink coupons for a fruit juice
served in 180 - 200 ml. glass again topped with ice. The retail
price of a 500 ml carton if Real fruit juice costs Rs. 90/-.
Yesterday, the juice that was earlier included in the cover/entry
charge had to be bought at Rs. 50/-.
In an era where in alcoholic beverages are the preferred drinks, I
see no logic in taxing people who do not consume them. Rather it
makes more business sense to charge more for something that more in
demand than for something that isn't.
At the entrance to Karma the venue for the GB New Year Eve Bash,
hung a placard saying, "Don't Drink & Drive" But sobriety had to
come for an additional cost. This sounds synonymous to saying "Don't
indulge in unprotected sex, use a condom" and than you sell a condom
at an exaggerated price. This in-turn also means GB promotes
consumption of alcohol, drunken driving and resultant accidents and
deaths, while it taxes the virtues of sobriety.
This issue may have appeared for the first time on this mailing list
but has been raised several times earlier in private forums of GB
event organizers of which I myself am a member. Whenever the protest
used to get bitter, you would see a mock tail being added to the
menu that would invariably get dropped after a few parties. Being a
minority voice that gets quelled by the voice of the majority, I see
no option but to bring this issue to this public forum. Henceforth,
I shall choose to use this very forum to ask to be provided in terms
of Rupees the value a NA would get in return for every rupee he
spends at a GB Party.
My actions may be viewed as descent and if they are be it so, I am
willing to pay whatever be price for it.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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