Re: [Gegl-developer] babl roadmap: How do you know which images are sRGB images?

2014-10-14 Thread Elle Stone

On 10/13/2014 06:36 PM, Elle Stone wrote:

How do you plan to tell when an image is an sRGB image and when it's not
an sRGB image?


The roadmap specifies 24 different formats for sRGB images and 24 
additional formats for non-sRGB images.


Presumably the 24 additional formats for non-sRGB images allow GEGL to 
request, as needed, a conversion of the RGB data from being encoded 
using sRGB primaries to being encoded using User_RGB primaries and 
vice versa.


Given the 24 additional formats for non-sRGB images, it seems pretty 
important to be able to detect when the user opens an sRGB image and 
when the user opens an image that's in some other RGB working space.


So again, upon opening an image, how do you plan to detect whether the 
image is an sRGB image or not?


Will you compare MD5 checksums?
Will you consult the profile descriptions?
Will you examine the profile colorants and TRCs?

If you don't understand the context of the question, see the following 
article: Will the Real sRGB Profile Please Stand Up? 
(http://ninedegreesbelow.com/photography/srgb-profile-comparison.html)


It should be noted that the article doesn't list *all* sRGB profile 
variants (new ones are being made every day). In particular, the article 
doesn't list sRGB profile variants distributed with Canon, Nikon, etc 
proprietary software.


With respect,
Elle Stone
--
http://ninedegreesbelow.com
Color management and free/libre photography


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Re: [Gegl-developer] babl roadmap: How do you know which images are sRGB images?

2014-10-14 Thread Øyvind Kolås
On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 11:20 AM, Elle Stone
ellest...@ninedegreesbelow.com wrote:
 On 10/13/2014 06:36 PM, Elle Stone wrote:

 How do you plan to tell when an image is an sRGB image and when it's not
 an sRGB image?


 The roadmap specifies 24 different formats for sRGB images and 24 additional
 formats for non-sRGB images.

Incorrect, foo and bar a metasyntactical variables; which have a
meaning in software development. They are placeholders, babl doesn't
know, and shouldn't care what these names/concepts are, the only
formats specified in the roadmap are synonyms for the already existing
color formats using the sRGB prefix. The ones with foo and bar
prefixes are illustrative place-holders, GEGL and other things using
babl. Have to choose what different named families of pixel formats
mean for their workflows.

 Presumably the 24 additional formats for non-sRGB images allow GEGL to
 request, as needed, a conversion of the RGB data from being encoded using
 sRGB primaries to being encoded using User_RGB primaries and vice versa.

There isn't 24 additional formats, but N*12 additional formats, N
depending on our needs in GEGL, foo and bar might have been replaced
with, compositing, chromaticity, target or other registered
classes of RGB for the editing session/pipeline.

 Given the 24 additional formats for non-sRGB images, it seems pretty
 important to be able to detect when the user opens an sRGB image and when
 the user opens an image that's in some other RGB working space.

 So again, upon opening an image, how do you plan to detect whether the image
 is an sRGB image or not?

 Will you compare MD5 checksums?
 Will you consult the profile descriptions?
 Will you examine the profile colorants and TRCs?

Deciding on this is outside the scope of babls roadmap, since this is
something that would have to happen in GEGL or other things using
babl. Most likely examination of profile colorants/TRCs since that is
what ICC or other color profile meta-data aware image loaders needs to
provide down to babl anyways. How the loading code does this; and
whether the behavior is configurable in GEGL (without knowing whether
it will be end up configurable in GIMP for that reason). In many
circumstances it is desirable to to treat almost sRGB as sRGB and
consider deviance from the real standard a mistake in labeling; for
instance if it is a low bitdepth image containing dithering - at other
times assuming that the slight off profile has been applied as is
earlier in the production pipeline might be desirable.

/Ø
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[Gegl-developer] babl roadmap: How do you know which images are sRGB images?

2014-10-13 Thread Elle Stone
According to the babl roadmap, sRGB images won't need  special-case 
treatment.


But every time the user opens an image that isn't an sRGB image, 
special-case treatment will be required for chromaticity-dependent 
editing operations.


How do you plan to tell when an image is an sRGB image and when it's not 
an sRGB image?


With respect,
Elle Stone
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