Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test
Okay, I think that I get it. It looks like 't' is the only thing that triggers the incorrect message. When I have entered 'x' or 's' that does trigger a value error, so there is certainly something funny going on with 't'. And 't' continues to generate ++---++--+---++---+ |invalid name|not defined|noun|adverb|conjunction|verb|unknown| ++---++--+---++---+ until it is initialized, so it is not a first time encounter only issue. Cheers, bob > On May 11, 2022, at 11:26, chris burke wrote: > > Bob > > I still think this has nothing to do with the edit window. > > When the Playground is first loaded, using t in Term should give a value > error, not the boxed list that is shown. That t is also defined in the edit > window is immaterial. > > Chris > > On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 11:18 AM 'robert therriault' via General < > gene...@jsoftware.com> wrote: > >> Yes, in that case you are initializing t and would be able to use it. I >> only get the >> >> ++---++--+---++---+ >> |invalid name|not defined|noun|adverb|conjunction|verb|unknown| >> ++---++--+---++---+ >> >> message when I try to access a noun that has not been loaded and I believe >> that the original problem was that t was not initialized when there was an >> attempt to use it in the edit window. >> >> If you are getting messages like that after initializing t then you are >> seeing behaviour that I am not. >> >> I'm sorry that I seem to have misunderstood some of your posts and have >> not made myself as clear as I should have. >> >> Cheers, bob >> >>> On May 11, 2022, at 11:11, greg heil wrote: >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> if run "t" from edit pane >>> (ctrl-enter) >>> is this not an >>> initialization? >>> >>> certainly >>> i can put something in t >>> and this overrides the default.. >>> >>> ~greg heil >>> picsrp.github.io >>> i.tgu.ca/real_cal >>> twitter.com/g1h >>> twitter.com/tweitku >>> >>> -- >>> >>> from: 'robert therriault' via General >>> to: gene...@jsoftware.com >>> date: May 11, 2022, 10:59 AM >>> subject: Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test >>> >>> Hi greg, >>> >>>> I think you may be assuming that when you see the contents of the edit >> window that it has been loaded. It is not automatically loaded, but is only >> loaded when the user chooses to load it. I believe that is the >> initialization that you are expecting. >>> >>> Let me know if I have misunderstood. >>> >>> Cheers, bob >>> -- >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> -- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> > -- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test
Joe Thanks for your years of effort on the playground! so i do need to initialize variables (system variables are "Global"?) how do I similarly initialize "helpplay_jws_" so i, and Gilles, can use the help facility? ~greg heil picsrp.github.io i.tgu.ca/real_cal twitter.com/g1h twitter.com/tweitku -- from: Joe Bogner reply-to: gene...@jsoftware.com to: gene...@jsoftware.com date: May 11, 2022, 11:09 AM subject: Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test >Thanks Bob and Chris/all. I confirmed my behavior is the same as bob's and is >working as I expect, but I can see how it could be confusing to a new user. >Having worked with JQT, I wouldn't expect to be able to type "t" without >running the script on the right side first to initialize t. The playground >edit window is the same as File->Open in JQT. In JQT it opens the file in a >separate window, whereas the playground opens it in the edit window (right >pane). That script is not run until the user runs it >I also agree it'd be nice to have a toggle for "Toggle Edit Window" under >"View" which would enable the user to hide it when they are using the Labs (or >we automatically hide it). I've added it as an enhancement https://github.com/jsoftware/j-playground/issues/51 -- from: 'robert therriault' via General reply-to: gene...@jsoftware.com to: General forum date: May 11, 2022, 10:53 AM subject: Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test Hi Chris, >I can use the terminal window before loading the edit window, but I won't be >able to access the variables declared in the edit window until it is run, >which I think is reasonable behaviour. >The issues at the beginning of this thread, I believe, are the result of >trying to access variables declared in the edit window on the terminal before >the edit window has been loaded. Sort of the same situation as script files >and the terminal session if you did not know that script files needed to be >loaded. In the case of the Playground, the edit window is seen at the same >time as the terminal, so the user might assume that all information is >available in both places. >I agree that the edit window is not necessary when running labs, but I think >Joe is rightly focussing on the correctness of the Playground's results and >will move back to the interface when he is comfortable with the Playground's >accuracy. >These comments are useful when he gets back to working in that area, but would >be better if they were entered as issues here: >https://github.com/jsoftware/j-playground/issues Cheers, bob -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test
Bob I still think this has nothing to do with the edit window. When the Playground is first loaded, using t in Term should give a value error, not the boxed list that is shown. That t is also defined in the edit window is immaterial. Chris On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 11:18 AM 'robert therriault' via General < gene...@jsoftware.com> wrote: > Yes, in that case you are initializing t and would be able to use it. I > only get the > > ++---++--+---++---+ > |invalid name|not defined|noun|adverb|conjunction|verb|unknown| > ++---++--+---++---+ > > message when I try to access a noun that has not been loaded and I believe > that the original problem was that t was not initialized when there was an > attempt to use it in the edit window. > > If you are getting messages like that after initializing t then you are > seeing behaviour that I am not. > > I'm sorry that I seem to have misunderstood some of your posts and have > not made myself as clear as I should have. > > Cheers, bob > > > On May 11, 2022, at 11:11, greg heil wrote: > > > > Bob > > > > if run "t" from edit pane > > (ctrl-enter) > > is this not an > > initialization? > > > > certainly > > i can put something in t > > and this overrides the default.. > > > > ~greg heil > > picsrp.github.io > > i.tgu.ca/real_cal > > twitter.com/g1h > > twitter.com/tweitku > > > > -- > > > > from: 'robert therriault' via General > > to: gene...@jsoftware.com > > date: May 11, 2022, 10:59 AM > > subject: Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test > > > > Hi greg, > > > >> I think you may be assuming that when you see the contents of the edit > window that it has been loaded. It is not automatically loaded, but is only > loaded when the user chooses to load it. I believe that is the > initialization that you are expecting. > > > > Let me know if I have misunderstood. > > > > Cheers, bob > > -- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > -- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test
Yes, in that case you are initializing t and would be able to use it. I only get the ++---++--+---++---+ |invalid name|not defined|noun|adverb|conjunction|verb|unknown| ++---++--+---++---+ message when I try to access a noun that has not been loaded and I believe that the original problem was that t was not initialized when there was an attempt to use it in the edit window. If you are getting messages like that after initializing t then you are seeing behaviour that I am not. I'm sorry that I seem to have misunderstood some of your posts and have not made myself as clear as I should have. Cheers, bob > On May 11, 2022, at 11:11, greg heil wrote: > > Bob > > if run "t" from edit pane > (ctrl-enter) > is this not an > initialization? > > certainly > i can put something in t > and this overrides the default.. > > ~greg heil > picsrp.github.io > i.tgu.ca/real_cal > twitter.com/g1h > twitter.com/tweitku > > -- > > from: 'robert therriault' via General > to: gene...@jsoftware.com > date: May 11, 2022, 10:59 AM > subject: Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test > > Hi greg, > >> I think you may be assuming that when you see the contents of the edit >> window that it has been loaded. It is not automatically loaded, but is only >> loaded when the user chooses to load it. I believe that is the >> initialization that you are expecting. > > Let me know if I have misunderstood. > > Cheers, bob > -- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test
Bob if run "t" from edit pane (ctrl-enter) is this not an initialization? certainly i can put something in t and this overrides the default.. ~greg heil picsrp.github.io i.tgu.ca/real_cal twitter.com/g1h twitter.com/tweitku -- from: 'robert therriault' via General to: gene...@jsoftware.com date: May 11, 2022, 10:59 AM subject: Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test Hi greg, >I think you may be assuming that when you see the contents of the edit window >that it has been loaded. It is not automatically loaded, but is only loaded >when the user chooses to load it. I believe that is the initialization that >you are expecting. Let me know if I have misunderstood. Cheers, bob -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test
Thanks Bob and Chris/all. I confirmed my behavior is the same as bob's and is working as I expect, but I can see how it could be confusing to a new user. Having worked with JQT, I wouldn't expect to be able to type "t" without running the script on the right side first to initialize t. The playground edit window is the same as File->Open in JQT. In JQT it opens the file in a separate window, whereas the playground opens it in the edit window (right pane). That script is not run until the user runs it I also agree it'd be nice to have a toggle for "Toggle Edit Window" under "View" which would enable the user to hide it when they are using the Labs (or we automatically hide it). I've added it as an enhancement https://github.com/jsoftware/j-playground/issues/51 On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 1:53 PM 'robert therriault' via General < gene...@jsoftware.com> wrote: > Hi Chris, > > I can use the terminal window before loading the edit window, but I won't > be able to access the variables declared in the edit window until it is > run, which I think is reasonable behaviour. > > The issues at the beginning of this thread, I believe, are the result of > trying to access variables declared in the edit window on the terminal > before the edit window has been loaded. Sort of the same situation as > script files and the terminal session if you did not know that script files > needed to be loaded. In the case of the Playground, the edit window is seen > at the same time as the terminal, so the user might assume that all > information is available in both places. > > I agree that the edit window is not necessary when running labs, but I > think Joe is rightly focussing on the correctness of the Playground's > results and will move back to the interface when he is comfortable with the > Playground's accuracy. > > These comments are useful when he gets back to working in that area, but > would be better if they were entered as issues here: > https://github.com/jsoftware/j-playground/issues > > Cheers, bob > > > On May 11, 2022, at 10:36, chris burke wrote: > > > > This just looks like a bug. It shouldn't be necessary to run the edit > > window first just to use Term. > > -- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test
Hi greg, I think you may be assuming that when you see the contents of the edit window that it has been loaded. It is not automatically loaded, but is only loaded when the user chooses to load it. I believe that is the initialization that you are expecting. Let me know if I have misunderstood. Cheers, bob > On May 11, 2022, at 10:48, greg heil wrote: > > am i missing an > initialization? -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test
Hi Chris, I can use the terminal window before loading the edit window, but I won't be able to access the variables declared in the edit window until it is run, which I think is reasonable behaviour. The issues at the beginning of this thread, I believe, are the result of trying to access variables declared in the edit window on the terminal before the edit window has been loaded. Sort of the same situation as script files and the terminal session if you did not know that script files needed to be loaded. In the case of the Playground, the edit window is seen at the same time as the terminal, so the user might assume that all information is available in both places. I agree that the edit window is not necessary when running labs, but I think Joe is rightly focussing on the correctness of the Playground's results and will move back to the interface when he is comfortable with the Playground's accuracy. These comments are useful when he gets back to working in that area, but would be better if they were entered as issues here: https://github.com/jsoftware/j-playground/issues Cheers, bob > On May 11, 2022, at 10:36, chris burke wrote: > > This just looks like a bug. It shouldn't be necessary to run the edit > window first just to use Term. -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test
Bob i get the exact display Gilles reported from either the Term frame or executing (ctrl-enter) from the edit frame am i missing an initialization? ~greg heil picsrp.github.io i.tgu.ca/real_cal twitter.com/g1h twitter.com/tweitku -- from: chris burke to: General forum date: May 11, 2022, 10:37 AM subject: Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test >This just looks like a bug. It shouldn't be necessary to run the edit window >first just to use Term. >However on a related matter - when you load a lab, it should automatically >hide the edit window. -- from: 'robert therriault' via General to: gene...@jsoftware.com date: May 11, 2022, 10:30 AM subject: Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test Hi greg, >What I mean by "has not yet been run" is that although you can see the >information in the edit window, that information has not been entered into the >terminal. The different choices that can brought up in the edit window can be >seen under the Examples menu in the playground, but you would still need to >run the edit window before the contents would be available to the terminal >window. >I am on a Mac and ctrl f1 isn't a short cut that does anything for me. What >results were you expecting and what are they the same as? Cheers, bob -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test
This just looks like a bug. It shouldn't be necessary to run the edit window first just to use Term. However on a related matter - when you load a lab, it should automatically hide the edit window. On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 10:10 AM 'robert therriault' via General < gene...@jsoftware.com> wrote: > From what I can see the issue is that even though you can see the contents > of the edit window, it has not yet been run. > > Perhaps, the easiest solution is to have the edit section hidden when the > Playground first loads. > > When the user opens an example edit session there could be a comment at > the top that says that the edit session will not be loaded until you either > select loading from the menu or use an appropriate shortcut, followed by a > list of the short cuts. This comment at the top would be required on > example edit sessions and shorter version might be useful on user generated > edit sessions. > > Cheers, bob > > > On May 11, 2022, at 09:37, greg heil wrote: > > > > same in win10/chrome > > > > BTW > > it might be useful > > to have a 'revert' functionality > > that reloaded the system > > without affecting user data > > > > ~greg heil > > picsrp.github.io > > i.tgu.ca/real_cal > > twitter.com/g1h > > twitter.com/tweitku > > > > -- > > > > from: Gilles Kirouac via gmail.com > > reply-to: gene...@jsoftware.com > > to: gene...@jsoftware.com > > date: May 11, 2022, 9:26 AM > > subject: [Jgeneral] J Playground test > > > >> I tested the Playground minimally with Firefox and Edge in Win10. > > > > I started with the landing page at > > https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Playground > > > > In Term, if you type "t", you get > > t > >> ++---++--+---++---+ > >> |invalid name|not defined|noun|adverb|conjunction|verb|unknown| > >> ++---++--+---++---+ > > > >> In Term (after reloading the page), if you type ";" followed by Ctrl+F1 > (Contextual Help), the input line goes away and you get > > > > |value error: helpplay_jws_ > > | helpplay_jws_'0 0 1 1 ;' > > |[-0] > > > > ~ Gilles > > -- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > -- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test
Hi greg, What I mean by "has not yet been run" is that although you can see the information in the edit window, that information has not been entered into the terminal. The different choices that can brought up in the edit window can be seen under the Examples menu in the playground, but you would still need to run the edit window before the contents would be available to the terminal window. I am on a Mac and ctrl f1 isn't a short cut that does anything for me. What results were you expecting and what are they the same as? Cheers, bob > On May 11, 2022, at 10:21, greg heil wrote: > > Not sure what you mean by > "it has not been run" -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test
Bob Not sure what you mean by "it has not been run" but i do get the same results if i type "t" or do a ctrl-F1 from the edit window ~greg heil picsrp.github.io i.tgu.ca/real_cal twitter.com/g1h twitter.com/tweitku -- from: 'robert therriault' via General reply-to: gene...@jsoftware.com to: gene...@jsoftware.com date: May 11, 2022, 10:10 AM subject: Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test >From what I can see the issue is that even though you can see the contents of >the edit window, it has not yet been run. >Perhaps, the easiest solution is to have the edit section hidden when the >Playground first loads. >When the user opens an example edit session there could be a comment at the >top that says that the edit session will not be loaded until you either select >loading from the menu or use an appropriate shortcut, followed by a list of >the short cuts. This comment at the top would be required on example edit >sessions and shorter version might be useful on user generated edit sessions. Cheers, bob -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test
From what I can see the issue is that even though you can see the contents of the edit window, it has not yet been run. Perhaps, the easiest solution is to have the edit section hidden when the Playground first loads. When the user opens an example edit session there could be a comment at the top that says that the edit session will not be loaded until you either select loading from the menu or use an appropriate shortcut, followed by a list of the short cuts. This comment at the top would be required on example edit sessions and shorter version might be useful on user generated edit sessions. Cheers, bob > On May 11, 2022, at 09:37, greg heil wrote: > > same in win10/chrome > > BTW > it might be useful > to have a 'revert' functionality > that reloaded the system > without affecting user data > > ~greg heil > picsrp.github.io > i.tgu.ca/real_cal > twitter.com/g1h > twitter.com/tweitku > > -- > > from: Gilles Kirouac via gmail.com > reply-to: gene...@jsoftware.com > to: gene...@jsoftware.com > date: May 11, 2022, 9:26 AM > subject: [Jgeneral] J Playground test > >> I tested the Playground minimally with Firefox and Edge in Win10. > > I started with the landing page at > https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Playground > > In Term, if you type "t", you get > t >> ++---++--+---++---+ >> |invalid name|not defined|noun|adverb|conjunction|verb|unknown| >> ++---++--+---++---+ > >> In Term (after reloading the page), if you type ";" followed by Ctrl+F1 >> (Contextual Help), the input line goes away and you get > > |value error: helpplay_jws_ > | helpplay_jws_'0 0 1 1 ;' > |[-0] > > ~ Gilles > -- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] J Playground test
same in win10/chrome BTW it might be useful to have a 'revert' functionality that reloaded the system without affecting user data ~greg heil picsrp.github.io i.tgu.ca/real_cal twitter.com/g1h twitter.com/tweitku -- from: Gilles Kirouac via gmail.com reply-to: gene...@jsoftware.com to: gene...@jsoftware.com date: May 11, 2022, 9:26 AM subject: [Jgeneral] J Playground test >I tested the Playground minimally with Firefox and Edge in Win10. I started with the landing page at https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Playground In Term, if you type "t", you get t >++---++--+---++---+ >|invalid name|not defined|noun|adverb|conjunction|verb|unknown| >++---++--+---++---+ >In Term (after reloading the page), if you type ";" followed by Ctrl+F1 >(Contextual Help), the input line goes away and you get |value error: helpplay_jws_ | helpplay_jws_'0 0 1 1 ;' |[-0] ~ Gilles -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
[Jgeneral] J Playground test
I tested the Playground minimally with Firefox and Edge in Win10. I started with the landing page at https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Playground In Term, if you type "t", you get t ++---++--+---++---+ |invalid name|not defined|noun|adverb|conjunction|verb|unknown| ++---++--+---++---+ In Term (after reloading the page), if you type ";" followed by Ctrl+F1 (Contextual Help), the input line goes away and you get |value error: helpplay_jws_ | helpplay_jws_'0 0 1 1 ;' |[-0] ~ Gilles -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
