Noel J. Bergman
Nicola Ken Barozzi
Ken Coar
Morgan Delegrange
Roy T. Fielding
Ceki Gulcu
Paul Hammant
James Holmes
Ted Husted
Jim Jagielski
Berin Lautenbach
Ted Leung
Geir Magnusson Jr.
Stefano Mazzocchi
Craig McClanahan
Steven Noels
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
FYI, having my incubated project graduated, I do not have offical
mentor duties anymore (and don't play to have some for a while).
That's alright. The PMC is most certainly not limited to Mentors (that
would be a bad thing, in my view). But all Mentors should be on
The Incubator's Quarterly Report is due next week. All projects should
e-mail a brief status report (and make sure that their STATUS file is up to
date) by the weekend.
Mentors, you don't have to do the report yourself, but please do make sure
that it gets done. :-)
Anyone should feel free to
... with Noel J. Bergman expressing reservations.
Reservations, yes, but not strong enough to block graduation. The Logging
PMC will be responsible for maintaining the code, and I just hope that you
can continue to grow the community.
could we please close this vote and declare log4cxx
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
Can the PMC members please vote on mirae.
There as been discussion and VOTE on the ws mailing lists:
http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
by=threadfrom=948183
IIRC, when a PMC accepts a project for incubation, we don't
Folks,
Project resources (mailing lists, etc.) are being created tonight. Please
remind us ASAP of any pending requests. JDO and Agila mailing lists should
be done.
--- Noel
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Doug proposed this a week and change ago (bad timing to do such things
around major holidays :-)). So far we have support from Dain, Nicola Ken,
Doug, Eric Hatcher, Henning, Roy and myself.
Roy, Nicola Ken, and myself provide the minimum 3 +1 from the PMC based upon
the current roster.
Folks,
Please review your site materials and fix any references ASAP.
As previously indicated, the machine name nagoya is going away in very
short order. Projects should not have any references on their web sites to
any Apache machine names, only to domains such as issues, mail-archives,
etc.
Jean T. Anderson wrote:
I'm deducing from the emails this afternoon that I can't simply
replace the nagoya.apache.org with mail-archives.apache.org
No, because the database will have to be rebuilt, and when that happens the
eyebrowse URLs will break. They aren't based on something content
Jean,
As an aside, please note that mod_mbox is now installed on the new mail
archive server, as well as eyebrowse. mod_mbox uses the Message-ID, from
what I can see, and should be more of a proper URI than the fragile
eyebrowse URLs. The eyebrowse webapp would still be the best way to find
Jean T. Anderson wrote:
I'm happy to offer help evaluating strategies to both rebuild the
database and retain the current ids in some usable form, if you can use
the help.
Sure. The eyebrowse project is at http://eyebrowse.tigris.org. Daniel
knows the internals as well as anyone, better 'n
Roy T. Fielding wrote:
FYI, I really don't like this trend of independent projects being
created within umbrella projects. If you are creating a generic
toolkit then it should be incubated as a separate project. IMO
there are too many single-developer products being masked under
the
Ceki,
I have reviewed http://incubator.apache.org/projects/log4cxx.html. If the
Logging PMC is taking responsibility, collectively, for maintaining this
codebase as part of the overall Logging project, I won't consider the small
number of committers worrisome.
--- Noel
As soon as I saw the message subject, I thought of the other project, which
actually pre-dates Palm, and was first available on the Apple Newton.
--- Noel
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The question was more from a legal standpoint would a Java
based CMS software and a hand-recognition system embedded
in physical devices be considered in the class and thus
infringing or separate applications and thus be non-infringing ?
You'd have to check with our lawyer(s), but I'd think
Marcus Schiesser wrote:
we would like to donate our project for the rapid type creation of
webservices using XML input files.
http://molimo.sourceforge.net/modules/wiwimod/
I suggest that you contact the Apache Web Services project
(http://ws.apache.org) and see if they are interested in
For templates, having to edit the HTML code looks like more work than
editing the relatively simply CWIKI format files. For example, I compared
the CWIKI for the IP Clearance form to the HTML, and considered which one
would be nicer to edit for every PMC to clear IP. But I don't know that I
care
Craig,
I see that the JDO 1.0 RI is coming to the ASF, development on JDO 2.0
will commence, using the JDO 1.0 code as a starting point, and the
source for JDO 2.0 has not yet been developed except in prototype form by
expert group members, but the JDO 2.0 Reference Implementation will be
The word from the PRC
Is that they should be contacted prior to marketing.
--- Noel
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Andrew McIntyre wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
For future reference --- no action item today --- please
don't put files in that location until after they've
been approved for release. :-)
For future reference, could you tell me if there is a
location on www.apache.org or cvs.apache.org
Tim,
The PRC is responsible for setting ASF-wide policy regarding permissible
marketing. AFAIK, we do insist that all materials using the name Apache in
conjunction with an incubator project include the disclaimer, but let's move
this over to the PRC list.
--- Noel
-Original
Samuel Andrew McIntyre wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Please correct the STATUS file and missing README. When Derby does
post the binaries, they should go under
/www/cvs.apache.org/dist/incubator/derby.
I've corrected the binaries and posted them here as requested:
http://cvs.apache.org
FYI, the URL on Sam's page for the source ZIP file is missing the .zip
extension.
Once downloaded, I see that the -src ZIP file is missing the Incubation
notice, which is otherwise present in both the -bin and -lib ZIP files. The
STATUS file appears out of date, since the top item relates to the
Calling for a vote to graduate this project from the incubator,
for [EMAIL PROTECTED] to further manage it
+1
--- Noel
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And I will represent that Jim Jagielski also indicated that he is +1 in
person when I saw him at ApacheCon.
Since the PPMC consists of the Incubator PMC and the HTTPD PMC, and we've
votes from both with no objections, if there are no objections by the close
of ApacheCon (another 24 hours or so),
In fact, the ASL/CLA combo is a bit ambigous on [copyright]
Not really, but not well understood. Expect to see a a document clarifying
the matters.
--- Noel
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Surajit Dash wrote:
I'm confused after seeing this message. Does it mean FTPServer is no
longer a part of the Apache open source projects and will not be
supported in the developer community anymore?
We are planning to use the Incubator FTPServer as a production FTP
Server. Should we
IMHO we now have to decide what to do with FTPServer and AltRMI, which
seem dormant
I have asked Paul about AltRMI, and he was actively trying to build
Community as of even a few months ago, but has diverted his attention to
POJOifying Avalon apps. If I recall correctly, FTPServer is his
Folks,
From the ApacheCon committee:
Please put something like this on your front page 'above the fold':
--
a href=http://ApacheCon.Com/2004/US/;
img src=http://ApacheCon.Com/2004/US/logos/logo_only.gif;
width=170 height=100 alt=ApacheCon! title=Come to ApacheCon!
Nicola,
Would you please update the STATUS and site to refect this information?
Should we shutdown the mailing lists and remove commit rights to the source?
--- Noel
-Original Message-
From: Nicola Ken Barozzi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 18:01
To:
Sun is the final stages of collecting requirements for the releases that
will follow Tiger, which means the next 3 years. So here's your chance to
tell Sun what you would like to see in J2SE versions 6 and 7. Once we
gather all of the ideas, we can try to see if we can prioritize the list.
I
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
I have created a wiki page to collect the information.
It would have helped if I remembered to paste the link ...
http://wiki.apache.org/general/JavaFutures
--- Noel
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hammett wrote:
if we should have a strong community to enter incubator,
then we will have to wait a few months :-(
As much as I'd like to see us able to facilitate community growth within the
Incubator, given the limited human resources available, particularly it
seems these days, there are
Cliff Schmidt wrote
If it's any use, you can download the slides at:
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2004/view/e_sess/5439
I'll be giving a similar presentation next month at ApacheCon.
I'll be there to heckle. ;-)
Actually, the presentation looks pretty good. :-)
--- Noel
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
there is very little in OSS that needs the secrecy
Most people would certainly agree on that issue. Roy makes a habit of
poking at people for having threads on a PMC list that should be on a public
one.
Other people in ASF is obviously of a different opinion, as my
thorsten wrote:
I thought we could make rules against thus abuse in the future
without reviewing the past.
I understand your concern, but we don't need to program communities. We
need human judgment. We need to ask people to step up, be responsible, and
do the right thing. The difference of
Status report for the Apache Incubator Project
Since the last report to the Board, Lenya has become ready to fly the nest;
and new projects such as Agila, Derby, JackRabbit and iBATIS have begun
Incubation.
Infrastructure bottlenecks continue to
what if incubating mentors would abuse their powers to interfer
with the normal evolution of Apache incubation projects.
If such a thing were to happen, the Incubator PMC would address it.
--- Noel
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Berin,
Judging from yours, Geir's and David's messages, this sounds like mostly a
matter of clearing the IP (use the template), but is otherwise eagerly
awaited by a community already working with its precursor.
As for where it goes, I think that can be left to the community working with
the
Geir wrote:
I have the site going to
incubator.apache.org/projects/agila/
It should be http://incubator.apache.org/agila/. Nothing should be under
projects except for Incubator-specific stuff, mostly the STATUS files.
--- Noel
Leo Simons wrote:
being a C#|CLR|.Net project, I anticipate there'll be some legal
things to sort out at some point. I'd want someone from the
incubator team with more experience in that area to volunteer to
help out.
We already have Bill Rowe's project and log4net. Dealing with the IP
Geir,
That's not where the project's own web-site goes. I'm sure that you copied
from what you saw, but there are some artifacts from older projects that did
things differently, and we now have a convention for where things go. :-)
We should create
hammett wrote:
Is there any more things I need to do to start the process? Anything
related to licenses, code IP, CLAs or something like that? I'm kind
of lost here :-)
Don't sweat it. Those are some of the things that your Mentor can help
with. You have a CLA. You will want to make sure
Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
No other CLAs seem to made it (yet).
I just e-mailed instructions for resubmitting, including an alternate means.
--- Noel
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May I put the first draft in the incubator wiki?
Sure.
--- Noel
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You might want to talk with William Rowe about it, and see if
he has interest in it, too.
Certainly! Who is he?
See http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/SummarizeList?listId=235. Although
it has been quiet, you'll find some people interested in the general area.
--- Noel
Some times it is quiet. :-)
You can let people know here what you have in mind. Alternatively, if there
are projects within the ASF that would align nicely with your proposal, you
could start looking for support. Or [EMAIL PROTECTED] At one point or another,
we like to see interest from
Noel, which software do you use to provide this omnipresent
feature ? :-)
LOL. Hardly. You'll find me on JAMES, Incubator, Avalon, Jakarta Commons
and ASF internal lists. Others are far more omnipresent.
my proposal has to do with some .Net code
We have a CLI project in the Incubator to
everybody on the derby code team: forget the frickin' copyright
issue and just work on the code while we get the legal bunfight
settled.
Didn't I hear someone else (me) say that recently? ;-)
I would be just as happy if the copyrighy discussion, which is not Derby
specific, was moved to
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
the procedure above, which has finally been clarified,
should be used by the incubator folks to update
http://www.apache.org/dev/apply-license.html at some point.
Would you please create an issue in JIRA for it, do it, or otherwise create
a tickler? And should
Greg Stein wrote:
where the heck did the text for the resolution come from?
This is like the third or fourth TLP resolution lately that
I've seen which does NOT put Apache into the name of the
PMC. I'm wondering how the heck that got started. Every
project needs to be named using the Apache
I have created an INCUBATOR project in JIRA. Probably needs tweaking of
certain things to get it right, such as the permission scheme. The intent
is to help us track requests that apply to the Incubator as a whole. Web
site, documentation changes, etc. Not Incubator projects, but just the
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
I've been lurking on the Derby list, and there's a discussion
about code copyright. Why isn't all the code (c) ASF?
The files should all have the AL v2. The license file provided includes the
copyright. Any other notices, such as historical credits, go into the
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
I've been lurking on the Derby list, and there's a discussion
about code copyright. Why isn't all the code (c) ASF?
The files should all have the AL v2. The license file provided includes the
copyright. Any other notices, such as historical credits, go into the
We've just finished a conference with Jennifer. As I understand it, her
issues are not with the practice but with how to implement that practice
properly. As I understand Roy's comment, the practice is correct, but the
legal magic is that IBM needs to be the party that does it.
--- Noel
Dain Sundstrom wrote:
how about someone writes a shell script that does the
change and get someone at IBM to execute it?
As I understand it, it doesn't matter how they make the change, so long as
they are the ones who commit it.
--- Noel
Check-in the final pages to the incubator-site CVS module
under \incubator-site\build\site\projects\${project-name}\**
I don't see any real need to require projects to keep their generated site
in the incubator-site module. They can checkout from their own repository
into
Martin Marinschek wrote:
I wonder if we should start to worry now - should we try to
resend the stuff?
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Ted Husted wrote:
Ted Husted wrote:
Manfred Geiler [EMAIL PROTECTED] collected the
remaining CLAs and sent them by ground mail on 19 Aug.
The CLA file
Rolf Kulemann wrote:
We kindly want to ask infrastructure now, if they can do the final
conversion of Lenya's cvs repo
Lenya is being migrated to SVN right now. The CVS module is locked down.
Lenya will be at https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/lenya. When
Lenya is promoted to a TLP,
Ashish Srivastava wrote:
Steven Noels wrote:
Noel, I think that there has been some confusion.
Starting with the fact that you were responding to a message from Steven
Noels, so it should have been Steven, I think ... :-)
The number and profile of committers will be decided by ASF.
Dain Sundstrom wrote:
I can say that based on the feature set alone, I would love to
integrate Daffodil into Geronimo.
How would you compare it against Axion and/or Derby?
They've also offered their Daffodil Replicator technology, which does not
overlap with anything else we have, and which
Ted Husted wrote:
OK, now I'm starting to worry :)
The CLAs that Manfred sent by surface mail should have arrived a week
ago. Might they still be pending, or should we try again?
Give it a few more days. The ASF Secretary has indicated that there is a backlog of
CLAs that will be
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
when you click on the Geronimo link on
http://incubator.apache.org/projects/index.html,
the redirect is wrong
Fixed. That should not have been effected by the redirect, but was.
--- Noel
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+1
--- Noel
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Ted Husted wrote:
(3.1) mailing list(s)
* ibatis-ppmc (with moderated subscriptions)
* ibatis-svn
Probably -commits, since that is the emerging convention.
(3.2) subversion repositories
* incubator-ibatis
This is subversion, not CVS. It would be the ibatis/ path under
+1
What are the chances that you would consider Subversion instead of CVS?
--- Noel
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what is the status of MyFaces?
The lists and CVS were setup a month ago, as were several accounts. I have
not seen any activity since then, but judging from what I just found on
their current mailing lists, they have been waiting to get all of their
current committers covered by CLA before
Noel, I think that there has been some confusion.
Amongst which may be that you were replying to Steven NOELS, and I am NOEL
Bergman. :-)
--- Noel
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how do you define lazy consensus?
As Roy explained, it means that a minimum number of people need to cast
their vote. Once the minimum has been cast, the vote counts. It is lazy
in the sense that we consider it to have passed, once we have reached the
minimum, until/unless we get -1 votes.
Brian McCallister wrote:
J Aaron Farr wrote:
We're seeing a general explosion of new TLP's in Apache or subprojects
graduating to TLP level. IMHO at some point we're going to reach a
critical mass where it will no longer be very feasible for the Board
to directly handle so many TLP's. I
Ashish Srivastava wrote:
We are planning to make our Daffodil Replicator an open source project.
I have read the information at http://www.daffodildb.com/dbreplicator.php,
but it is unclear from Replicator integrates impeccably with all Daffodil
database products as well as with selected
It seems that everyone agrees to release Lenya from the incubator.
Can we do a summary on that, such we can use the summary for applying as
TLP.
Actually, I just went back through the vote thread, and from what I can see,
we have votes from Leo Simons, Steven Noels and myself. I did look
John McNally wrote:
The attached proposal [...]
What attached proposal? See:
http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
che.orgby=datefrom=2004-08-01to=2004-08-31first=1count=1 for the raw
content of the message as it made it through.
When you or Ken have a chance, please put the
Once the accounts are setup, we'll ask everyone to subscibe to the lists,
and get rolling on the CVS, as discussed.
No need to wait before you start using the lists.
--- Noel
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I wonder if it is better to do a silent vote for the
future Apache Lenya PMC Chair.
Not really. You could use the Lenya PPMC list, which is similar to the
Cocoon PMC list.
The main reason I see is, that such votes should not end up in a
popularity contest.
It is still all about community.
Do I feel some negative vibrations?
Nope. :-)
--- Noel
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Ted,
Once the accounts and lists are setup, I imagine we can move
most discussions from here to the new MyFaces DEV list.
-cvs, -user, -dev and -ppmc lists are setup. You are the moderator and sole
subscriber to each. Time to get everyone else subscribed and go from there.
Please let me
has the cocoon PMC voted to accept it?
The suggestion from Stefano is that it become a TLP, so cocoon doesn't need
to vote to accept it.
I also vaguely remember some concerns expressed a while back on the PMC
list. I take it those have all been addressed?
There were concerns raised by
Folks,
Once a quarter, the Incubator reports to the Board. You are to provide a
project status report to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to assist us in
providing our overall status. An early reminder was posted previously to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your quarterly report is now overdue.
Please provide it ASAP.
does the silence of the incubator list mean just
do whatever we feel like ;-)
No. I can't speak for everyone, but in at least some cases, the past few
days have seen a number of people distracted on events elsewhere. That
aside, perhaps people did not realize that this is, in fact, a vote.
Geir Magnusson Jr
Cliff Schmidt
Noel J. Bergman
Craig, would you please put in the requests for infrastructure and root
(account) support? Also, if we are going to use CVS, I believe you have
sufficient karma to handle the CVS setup. If you don't, or don't have time,
let me know
Rodney,
We don't have direct shell access at Tigris
Subversion is hosted at tigris, and we (infrastructure) have contacts there
who can help. I asked, and was told that we've no worries. E-mail
infrastructure when you are ready to freeze CVS at tigris, and we can get
axion's CVS tarballed.
You're right. I'l make sure that CVS is tarballed and xferred to
minotaur. I assume we're dropping it in incubator?
Yes, but wait for Rodney to tell you to pull the trigger.
I don't recall if we're moving it CVS-CVS or CVS-SVN. Can check, or
Rodney can remind us. But since we need the
Bill,
The mailing list was [EMAIL PROTECTED] :-)
See: http://mail-archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/SummarizeList?listId=235
I also went back and found:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/SearchList?listId=listName=genera
[EMAIL PROTECTED]searchText=ASP.NETdefaultField=subjectSearch=Search
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
i don't like ndas on principle, and hope they can be avoided. however,
if the incubator pmc thinks that's the way to go for a particular
proposal, i think it's their call. (although i don't promise not to
lobby against it. ;-)
I do, unless our legal counsel
Can we wait to really hash this out until someone does?
Was just responding to a request to clarify my earlier reply to you and Ken.
I've nothing more to add. :-)
--- Noel
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Guys,
It is that time again. Please submit your project reports, preferably by
end of day on Friday, or over the weekend, so that I can submit the
Incubator Quarterly Report to the Board by Monday night.
--- Noel
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To
what if I just copy the proposal and attach it to this mail, and what
people voted about was this version?
Thank you for doing that. [He said, wondering why no one, including self,
had thought to the obvious earlier. :-)]
--- Noel
Leo Simons wrote:
Is the issue now resolved as far as the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list
is concerned
We can hope.
--- Noel
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As I see it, community is our concern. Either we have a strong community
coming in, or we believe that we have the ability to form one around some
catalyst.
If we are accepting a contribution based upon its community, the quality of
its code is probably not a pre-determining criteria, and we
unnecessary and unwarranted disruption of an incubator project
Let it go. No one other than you is characterizing it that way. Just let
it go.
--- Noel
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Martin,
When you get a chance, would you please take the Wiki page content and
prepare it as a record of the project proposal for the MyFaces web site?
Shouldn't take more than a few minutes.
--- Noel
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(never been much for voting templates)
I think we'll drop that style in the future. :-) Yours was not the only
such comment.
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I've suggested to Nicola Ken that he start work on a web page
to cover ideals, techniques and scenarios [related to community
building and conversation skills]
-1
Sorry but Nicola Ken is not qualified.
Your opinion is noted, but that is not your call to make. I asked him if he
would
I've suggested to Nicola Ken that he start work on a web page to
cover ideals, techniques and scenarios [regarding communication
skills and other useful community building techniques.]
I figure your suggestion and the assumedly planned work can't have
anything to do with what is happening
Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Would you mind checking it into CVS? ;-)
Don't believe I have access. And, if I don't, I don't want it. ;-)
Too bad. ;-) Someone from every PMC should. As of now, all PMC Chairs do.
That includes you.
By the way
Justin,
Please see ip-clearance-template.cwiki under site/projects in the incubator
module.
--- Noel
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Shouldn't this be on the website?
It will be when we rebuild the site, but it really exists to be checked into
CVS.
Anyway, here ya go...
Would you mind checking it into CVS? ;-)
By the way, the -..-.. are supposed to be replaced by dates. Was that
not clear? We'd like the form to be
As others have said, you want to contact the Incubator. I'll tell you that
we will be looking for support from within the ASF for adopting your
project, and a community. You should probably check with the DB project to
see what interest is there. Also, you should look at existing ASF projects
Is there anything else that anyone would like to discuss regarding the
MyFaces proposal (http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/MyFacesProposal) before
we vote on acceptance?
It is unclear to me whether the proposal calls for a CVS repository, or if
they will go straight into Subversion now (rather
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