Hi Rob and all,
My name is Marcelo Horacio Fortino and I've been using this suite since
1999 when I get an StarOffice 5.1 CD from Sun.
Since then I had worked with all OpenOffice.Org and lastly with
LibreOffice flavors and I've been promoting and installing these suites
hundreds of times
On 9 Jun 2011, at 20:10, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Michael,
I agree that the ethical thing to do is to inform partners of such matters,
although I still don't know how to guarantee it. And generally speaking, you
might want to treat the specifics of such matters in similarly sensitive
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Marcelo H.Fortino
mfort...@estrategiasgnulinux.com wrote:
Hi Rob and all,
My name is Marcelo Horacio Fortino and I've been using this suite since 1999
when I get an StarOffice 5.1 CD from Sun.
Since then I had worked with all OpenOffice.Org and lastly with
There are still people signing up as initial committers.
Is it a sign to wait a bit longer with the vote?
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 6:00 PM, Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net wrote:
First some current stats:
73 committers.
18 currently have iclas on file.
29 have openoffice.org email
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Nick Kew n...@apache.org wrote:
On 9 Jun 2011, at 20:10, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Michael,
I agree that the ethical thing to do is to inform partners of such matters,
although I still don't know how to guarantee it. And generally speaking,
you might want
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 11:36 AM, Christian Grobmeier
grobme...@gmail.com wrote:
There are still people signing up as initial committers.
Is it a sign to wait a bit longer with the vote?
There's no problem with them joining later, is it?
--
Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 5:40 AM, Jochen Wiedmann
jochen.wiedm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 11:36 AM, Christian Grobmeier
grobme...@gmail.com wrote:
There are still people signing up as initial committers.
Is it a sign to wait a bit longer with the vote?
Deadlines are good at
Is it a sign to wait a bit longer with the vote?
Deadlines are good at inciting action. :-)
There's no problem with them joining later, is it?
Nope.
Its just a bit more complicated as they need to get voted in.
I intend to proceed as planned.
Fine for me.
- Sam Ruby
On 07.06.2011 14:22, Mathias Bauer wrote:
On 07.06.2011 13:00, Nóirín Plunkett wrote:
On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Mathias Bauermathias_ba...@gmx.net
wrote:
If there was still too much concern about that, I could work on an
improved
list from a technical perspective and provide this list
Hi,
2011/6/10 Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net:
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 4:47 AM, Nick Kew n...@apache.org wrote:
On 9 Jun 2011, at 20:10, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
I agree that the ethical thing to do is to inform partners of such matters,
although I still don't know how to guarantee it. And
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Volker Merschmann
merschm...@gmail.com wrote:
Some fundamental comments about the license have been written down by
the FSF: http://www.fsf.org/news/openoffice-apache-libreoffice
That's worthy of a new subject line.
While the first line of the first paragraph
On Fri, 10 Jun 2011, Sam Ruby wrote:
Please cast your votes:
I'm +1
If accepted, I'll try to help out with the podling, but alas I've not got
time at the moment to take on a full mentorship role of it.
Nick
-
To
Hi,
my name is Malte Timmermann, and I work on the code base of
OpenOffice.org since 1991 - almost from the beginning.
It started with StarDivision, later acquired by Sun, later acquired by
Oracle. While still being an Oracle employee, my engagement here will be
on an individual base.
Please cast your votes:
[ +1 ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
Danese
[X] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
On 6/10/11 12:02 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
*** Please change your Subject: line for any [DISCUSSION] of this [VOTE]
As the discussions on the OpenOfficeProposal threads seem to be
winding down, I would like to initiate the vote to accept
OpenOffice.org
On 6/10/2011 11:02 AM, Sam Ruby wrote:
Please cast your votes:
[ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
+1 [binding]
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail:
+1 (non-binding)
--
With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
http://dataved.ru/
+7 916 562 8095
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 8:20 PM, William A. Rowe Jr.
wr...@rowe-clan.net wrote:
On 6/10/2011 11:02 AM, Sam Ruby wrote:
Please cast your votes:
[ ] +1
[X] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation (binding)
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 12:20 PM, William A. Rowe Jr.
wr...@rowe-clan.net wrote:
On 6/10/2011 11:02 AM, Sam Ruby wrote:
Please cast your votes:
[ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
+1 [binding]
[X] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
Non-binding.
-
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Sam wrote:
Before proceeding, I would like to seek advice from our counsel. I also
want to proceed based
on specific patent infringement concerns and not on abstract
hypotheticals. However, I don't
want to spend valuable time on this until we decide whether or not to
accept this project for
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 12:28 PM, Allen Pulsifer
pulsi...@openoffice.org wrote:
The net result of these issues are that project participants may have
differing opinions on whether they want to either (a) include code for a
possible patented technology or (b) include code to work around a
For us outsiders, can you explain who is allowed to vote and in what way,
please?
S.
Anyone is allowed to vote. If you vote against, please, explain why.
Most of votes do not count anyway, negative votes are usually
addressed.
--
With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
http://dataved.ru/
+7 916 562 8095
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 8:45 PM,
Simon,
Anyone interested can VOTE. If u see some of the votes they have
(binding) in the text, those are from folks on the incubator pmc.
Ultimately if we see a whole bunch of -1's then we check which way the
pmc voted to decide if the proposal was accepted or not.
So please go ahead and vote to
Awesome, thanks.
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 5:48 PM, Alexei Fedotov alexei.fedo...@gmail.comwrote:
Anyone is allowed to vote. If you vote against, please, explain why.
Most of votes do not count anyway, negative votes are usually
addressed.
--
With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
Sorry for ignorance but what does binding - non-binding mean?
--
Ian
Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England
+1 (non-binding)
S.
binding is used by members of the incubator pmc [1]
-- dims
[1] http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#incubator-pmc
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote:
Sorry for ignorance but what does binding - non-binding mean?
--
Ian
Ofqual Accredited IT
On 10 June 2011 17:49, Davanum Srinivas dava...@gmail.com wrote:
Simon,
Anyone interested can VOTE. If u see some of the votes they have
(binding) in the text, those are from folks on the incubator pmc.
Ultimately if we see a whole bunch of -1's then we check which way the
pmc voted to
Sorry, should have said +1 [binding]
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Danese Cooper dan...@gmail.com wrote:
Please cast your votes:
[ +1 ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
Danese
+1
non-binding
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net wrote:
*** Please change your Subject: line for any [DISCUSSION] of this [VOTE]
As the discussions on the OpenOfficeProposal threads seem to be winding
down, I would like to initiate the vote to accept
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net wrote:
Please cast your votes:
[X ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
[ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation
[ ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation
This vote will close 72 hours from now.
-1, as I feel this is not in the best interests of the world but rather of a
few powers.
(Officially I'm on the incubator PMC I believe but I have not been active ..
so lets chalk this up for non-binding.)
Sanjiva.
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 9:32 PM, Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net wrote:
***
[X] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
- Sam Ruby
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+1
- richard
On 6/10/11 12:02, Sam Ruby wrote:
*** Please change your Subject: line for any [DISCUSSION] of this [VOTE]
As the discussions on the OpenOfficeProposal threads seem to be
winding down, I would like to initiate the vote to accept
OpenOffice.org as an Apache Incubator project.
On 6/10/2011 11:45 AM, Simon Phipps wrote:
For us outsiders, can you explain who is allowed to vote and in what way,
please?
Everyone is welcome to vote.
Binding votes include all Incubator Project Management Committee members.
Non-binding votes can and do influence the opinions of committee
+1 (binding)
regards,
Karl
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 7:06 PM, Richard S. Hall he...@ungoverned.org wrote:
+1
- richard
On 6/10/11 12:02, Sam Ruby wrote:
*** Please change your Subject: line for any [DISCUSSION] of this [VOTE]
As the discussions on the OpenOfficeProposal threads seem to
On 6/10/2011 12:04 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
(Officially I'm on the incubator PMC I believe but I have not been active ..
so lets chalk this up for non-binding.)
Then you just cast a binding vote. Feel free to change it, or withdraw it,
but the committee roster determines which binds.
I forgot to add (binding) to my +1, but I don't think I'm alone.
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 1:12 PM, William A. Rowe Jr.
wr...@rowe-clan.net wrote:
On 6/10/2011 12:04 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
(Officially I'm on the incubator PMC I believe but I have not been active ..
so lets chalk this up
+1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
--
---
Prof. Román H. Gelbort
No busquemos aplicaciones que reemplacen aplicaciones,
sino aplicaciones que resuelvan problemas específicos...
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 05:45:03PM +0100, Simon Phipps wrote:
For us outsiders, can you explain who is allowed to vote and in what way,
please?
Official policy:
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Entry+to+Incubation
Entry Into Incubation
...
In order
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 12:02:44PM -0400, Sam Ruby wrote:
[ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
[ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation
[ ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation
+1 (binding)
Marvin Humphrey
+1 (non-binding)
Please cast your votes:
[ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
[ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation
[ ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail:
Yes, me too.
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 7:17 PM, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote:
I forgot to add (binding) to my +1, but I don't think I'm alone.
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 1:12 PM, William A. Rowe Jr.
wr...@rowe-clan.net wrote:
On 6/10/2011 12:04 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
Please cast your votes:
[ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
[ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation
[ ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation
+1 (non-binding)
Sander
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail:
Counters typically check the names against the pmc roster, so it's ok
-- dims
On 06/10/2011 01:38 PM, Christian Grobmeier wrote:
Yes, me too.
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 7:17 PM, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com
wrote:
I forgot to add (binding) to my +1, but I don't think I'm alone.
+1
-louis
On 2011-06-10 13:41 , Sander van der Waal wrote:
Please cast your votes:
[ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
[ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation
[ ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation
+1 (non-binding)
Sander
Please cast your votes:
[ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
[ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation
[ ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation
-1 (non-binding)
This proposal is for the hosting of all OpenOffice.org services by the ASF,
and mandates for items such as
+1
--- Noel
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Andrew Rist wrote:
I would also point out that this is not a case of moving from Copy Left
to Permissive licensing. In this case, the code base is moving from
dual-licensing (Copy Left and Proprietary) to Permissive.
I made the same point elsewhere. Also, while I appreciate clarification
+1 (binding)
Cheers!
-- Leif
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+1 binding, of course...
On Jun 10, 2011, at 12:08 PM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
[+1] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
-
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El 10/06/11 14:17, Roman H. Gelbort escribió:
+1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
and binding
--
---
Prof. Román H. Gelbort
No busquemos aplicaciones que reemplacen aplicaciones,
sino aplicaciones que
+1 (non-binding)
Andy Brown
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+1 (binding)
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Roman H. Gelbort ro...@piensalibre.com.ar
wrote:
El 10/06/11 14:17, Roman H. Gelbort escribió:
+1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
and binding
--
---
+1
On 10/06/2011 17:02, Sam Ruby wrote:
*** Please change your Subject: line for any [DISCUSSION] of this [VOTE]
As the discussions on the OpenOfficeProposal threads seem to be winding down, I
would like to
initiate the vote to accept OpenOffice.org as an Apache Incubator project.
At the
+1 (binding)
-
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+1
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net wrote:
*** Please change your Subject: line for any [DISCUSSION] of this [VOTE]
As the discussions on the OpenOfficeProposal threads seem to be winding
down, I would like to initiate the vote to accept OpenOffice.org as an
+1 (non-binding)
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Yegor Kozlov yegor.koz...@dinom.ru wrote:
+1
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net wrote:
*** Please change your Subject: line for any [DISCUSSION] of this [VOTE]
As the discussions on the OpenOfficeProposal
-0 (binding)
I concur with Sanjiva and it seems to be just a political move to me.
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 19:04, Sanjiva Weerawarana
sanj...@opensource.lk wrote:
-1, as I feel this is not in the best interests of the world but rather of a
few powers.
(Officially I'm on the incubator PMC I
On Jun 10, 2011 9:03 AM, Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net wrote:
...
[ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
[ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation
[ ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation
+1 (binding)
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 9:02 AM, Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net wrote:
*** Please change your Subject: line for any [DISCUSSION] of this [VOTE]
As the discussions on the OpenOfficeProposal threads seem to be winding
down, I would like to initiate the vote to accept OpenOffice.org as an
+1
There are many reasons that this project might fail at Apache. These
reasons have been brought up and discussed enough that I feel
comfortable giving the project the chance to prove that it can be
successful.
Craig
On Jun 10, 2011, at 9:02 AM, Sam Ruby wrote:
*** Please change your
On 6/10/2011 2:04 PM, Daniel Shahaf wrote:
Please. Being on a PMC can't *reduce* one's rights.
So, if I were on the PMC and I said +1 (intentionally non-binding),
I would expect it not to be counted as binding.
Then state I would vote +1 but haven't spent sufficient time reviewing
this,
[X] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation (non-binding)
Comment: While I favor focusing on the reference implementation for ODF, as my
previous comments reflect, I believe that and related scope decisions about
releases and deployment are a matter for the podling to work through.
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net wrote:
[ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
[ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation
[ ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation
+1 (Non-binding)
--
Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest
On 2011/06/10 10:02 AM Sam Ruby wrote:
[ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
[ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation
[ ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation
+1 (Non-binding)
--
_
Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
Website:
[x] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
On 06/10/2011 06:02 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
*** Please change your Subject: line for any [DISCUSSION] of this [VOTE]
Please cast your votes:
[ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
[ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation
[ ] -1 Reject
-1
My list of 44 reasons is here:
http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=2567
To boil it down to one: this plan as announced had several big flaws, and
they still exist.
Kind regards,
-Keith
P.S. I don't see many from LibreOffice voting against this proposal, so I
joined again to vote on their
-0 (binding)
My concerns:
- It wasn't the community that wanted to join Apache but commercial
entities decided and now the community is forced to join or stay away
- The OOo code base, eco system, and user base is huge and should be
managed by its own foundation
- A copy-left license fits well
+1 (Non-binding)
Thanks,
Kazunari Hirano
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+1 (binding)
Sent from my mobile device (so please excuse typos)
On 10 Jun 2011, at 17:02, Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net wrote:
*** Please change your Subject: line for any [DISCUSSION] of this [VOTE]
As the discussions on the OpenOfficeProposal threads seem to be winding down,
I would
Hi,
[ +1 ] (non binding) Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
Thanks !
Eric Bachard
--
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog :
-1
I do not think that accepting this podling is in the best interest
of the ASF. Absent explicit criteria / principles governing what
we accept into the Incubator, I have to apply informal judgment here
and I am voting -1 for the following reasons:
0) I think the ASF has a responsibility to
Keith Curtis wrote:
-1
My list of 44 reasons is here:
http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?p=2567
To boil it down to one: this plan as announced had several big flaws, and
they still exist.
Kind regards,
-Keith
P.S. I don't see many from LibreOffice voting against this proposal, so I
joined again
Hi Ross and Greg,
Thanks.
Can you tell me what podling is?
I could not find podling in my English-Japanese dictionary.
Should be between podium and podocarpus, right?
:)
Thanks,
khirano
-
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Can you tell me what podling is?
http://www.apache.org/foundation/glossary.html#Podling
HTH
--
Kevin
Greetings khirano,
Can you tell me what podling is?
podling is a made up (meaning invented) word that the ASF uses to refer to
a project in the incubation stage. The word podling is formed by the root
word pod (which should be in your dictionary) and the suffix -ling which
means small (that
[ X ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
non-binding
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Hi Kevin and Allen,
Thanks!
I see ! podling is an Apache's coinage.
It means a project in the incubation stage.
Very clear. Now I can tell my Japanese friends all about
OpenOffice.org going into ASF :)
I was looking for podle in my dictionary but I couldn't find it,
it's natural :)
pod -
Hi Malte,
great to have you on board :)
Best regards
Simon
Op 10-6-2011 18:16, Malte Timmermann schreef:
Hi,
my name is Malte Timmermann, and I work on the code base of
OpenOffice.org since 1991 - almost from the beginning.
It started with StarDivision, later acquired by Sun, later
I think we should give it a try.
+1 (binding)
LieGrue,
strub
PS: I fear there is a misunderstanding regarding binding vs non-binding votes.
Binding votes can only be cast by a IncubatorPMC member [1]. But of course,
also non-binding +1 are welcome ;)
[1]
+1
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net wrote:
*** Please change your Subject: line for any [DISCUSSION] of this [VOTE]
As the discussions on the OpenOfficeProposal threads seem to be winding
down, I would like to initiate the vote to accept OpenOffice.org as an
On Jun 10, 2011, at 12:02 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
As the discussions on the OpenOfficeProposal threads seem to be winding down,
I would like to initiate the vote to accept OpenOffice.org as an Apache
Incubator project.
At the end of this mail, I've put a copy of the current proposal. Here
Mark Struberg wrote on Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 23:09:21 +0100:
PS: I fear there is a misunderstanding regarding binding vs non-binding
votes. Binding votes can only be cast by a IncubatorPMC member [1]. But of
course, also non-binding +1 are welcome ;)
I'm going to be less roundabout:
+1 (non-binding) Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
Best regards,
Carl
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+1 (binding)
Ate
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On 05/06/2011 Nick Kew wrote:
On 5 Jun 2011, at 09:25, eric b wrote:
Apologies, the most up to date information is here :
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/External/Modules
Thanks for that.
Looks like there's some LGPL stuff but no strong copyleft.
Most dictionaries are missing from
Hi all,
My name is Simon Brouwer. For my profession, I develop electronics and
firmware for auto-ID equipment such as hand-held data collection
terminals. In my free time I have been active in OpenOffice.org since
2001 and have been project lead of the Dutch native-lang subproject
since its
Hi Rob,
Thanks.
But as you know, translation is only one part of localization. I hope
that with your participation, and with help from RedOffice experts who
have joined this project, that we can further improve the CJK support in
OOo.
You are right! This is what I would like to help
On 2:59 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
Please cast your votes:
[ ] +1 Accept OpenOffice.org for incubation
[ ] +0 Indifferent to OpenOffice.org incubation
[ ] -1 Reject OpenOffice.org for incubation
This vote will close 72 hours from now.
+1
Glad and Good Luck!
not sure if I'm binding or not
I have been active before :). So the vote is binding.
Sanjiva.
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 10:42 PM, William A. Rowe Jr.
wr...@rowe-clan.netwrote:
On 6/10/2011 12:04 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
(Officially I'm on the incubator PMC I believe but I have not been active
..
so lets chalk
Maybe the people from LibreOffice are not voting against because, even
though they believe there could have been better solutions, given the
current situation they prefer that OOo is approved as a podling: see
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss/5824 for
a more
I'm an Incubator PMC member so have a binding vote, but I'm also an
IBM employee, on this vote I abstain.
...ant
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net wrote:
*** Please change your Subject: line for any [DISCUSSION] of this [VOTE]
As the discussions on the
+1 (binding)
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 6:44 AM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm an Incubator PMC member so have a binding vote, but I'm also an
IBM employee, on this vote I abstain.
...ant
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net wrote:
*** Please change
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