date:20190813



> On Aug 12, 2019, at 1:34 PM, Ted Dunning  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 11:10 AM Dave Fisher  > wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 12, 2019, at 10:02 AM, Ted Dunning  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 9:24 AM Jim Jagielski  wrote:
>>> 
 
 
> On Aug 12, 2019, at 10:44 AM, Ted Dunning 
>> wrote:
 ...
>> "The Apache Podling Foo has voted on releasing Foo 1.2.2 (url and
>> pointers here). We have 3 (or more) binding votes from mentors. We are
>> giving the IPMC and additional 72 hours to vote on said release."
>> 
> 
> 
> This is good in theory, but as Justin has pointed out, 90% of podling
> releases don't have enough mentor votes to follow this path.
> 
> The 10% that do have enough votes can easily follow this process.
 
 Then the ones that don't have enough mentors still require the 3 +1
 binding votes. The idea is that if the podling already has it, then the
 IPMC "vote" is more procedural than anything else. If they don't, then
 either the mentors need to step up or the IPMC fills in the gap.
 
 The goal is to avoid having the Incubator be a gate-keeper.
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I don't understand how this is all that different from what we have now.
>> If
>>> three mentors (and thus IPMC members) vote yes, then opening up the vote
>> to
>>> include the IPMC is just like what you said, "we have three votes already
>>> and unless somebody points out something heinous, this is going to be a
>>> release". Whether the IPMC is a gatekeeper or a rubber stamp in these
>> cases
>>> is a tiny matter of nomenclature because the effect is typically a rubber
>>> stamp (although some of these releases are examined carefully and things
>>> turn up).
>>> 
>>> In the large majority of cases, the Incubator is definitely not a
>>> gatekeeper. If anything, the non-mentor IPMC votes are enablers that
>> allow
>>> a release to go forward when it would otherwise fail.
>> 
>> A week or two (an uncertain time) to do release votes as opposed to what
>> may already be a significant increase to a minimum 3 days will FEEL like a
>> closed GATE. (For example Zipkin really felt gated.)
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dave,
> 
> I don't understand your point.

My point is that what you describe below are the ideal results. We all know 
that while the podling itself can do release votes in 72 hours it often takes 
the IPMC much more than 72 hours to vote. It used to be weeks and has improved 
significantly to where most podlings can be done inside of one week.

The timing and uncertainty of this is too much for some previously established 
communities. For instance I think that this indeterminate lag is one of the 
causes that made Zipkin a poor fit here.

We've relaxed DISCLAIMERs. Should we wait to see if this improves the 
situation, or should we do another small step and essentially follow Myrle’s 
Review plan[1] for all general@ votes?

Regards,
Dave

[1] 
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/495ed84b43c1ba2662075a6c8c869bcd337b6bf4bc1895149c1483de@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E

> 
> Currently, a podling does a vote. If they (it does happen, but rarely) get
> 3 mentor votes, then they can immediately call for comments / votes on the
> IPMC list. If nothing bad turns up, they are done.
> 
> If something really bad gets found at that point, it isn't the fault of the
> process. It is the nature of release votes with different people looking at
> different things. Further, a release wouldn't necessarily be blocked at
> that point, but if the problem really is bad, then it is good practice for
> all +1 votes to switch to -1 so the vote fails and a new candidate can be
> rolled.
> 
> The proposal Jim made said that there would be 72 additional hours to
> review after the vote passes the podling vote. It may be that there is a
> suggestion that this additional 72 hours could start immediately upon
> getting three mentor votes but this is very much a corner case since it
> would be a fraction of the 10% of the time that three mentors actually do
> vote. If the three mentors take a day or two to vote, then the only
> difference in the 10% case is a day or so acceleration.
> 
> This just doesn't sound like it helps all that much. It changes 3 days + 3
> days into 3 days + 3 days 90% of the time and has some potential to change
> it into 3 days + 1-2 days less than 10% of the time.
> 
> That is my point. Either I completely misunderstand what is being proposed
> or it doesn't really make a significant difference. If I misunderstood, I
> would love to hear how and it seems like it would good to improve the
> description of the change. If it doesn't matter, we can make the change or
> not and there shouldn't be much argument either way (because it doesn't
> matter).

Re: [VOTE] Recommend 'Apache Druid graduation to Top Level Project' resolution to the board

2019-08-13 Thread Hao Chen

+1

- Hao


On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 9:10 AM Ted Dunning  wrote:

> +1
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 8:17 AM Dave Fisher  wrote:
>
> > +1 (binding)
> >
> > Regarding: QU30: See https://www.apache.org/security/ and
> > https://www.apache.org/security/committers.html
> >
> > https://druid.apache.org/druid-powered is impressive.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > > On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:03 AM, Gian Merlino  wrote:
> > >
> > > The Apache Druid community has recently discussed our readiness for
> > > graduation [1] and voted on it affirmatively [2, 3]. We've also
> assessed
> > > ourselves against the maturity model [4] and collaborated on a
> resolution
> > > for graduation including PMC membership and PMC chair.
> > >
> > > The community's achievements since entering the Incubator in early 2018
> > > include the following:
> > >
> > > - Accepted 1240 patches from 142 contributors
> > > - Performed 5 releases with 4 different release managers
> > > - Invited 10 new committers
> > > - Some time later on, invited all 10 of those new committers to join
> the
> > > PMC (those that have accepted are named in the resolution below)
> > > - Migrated development to Apache's GitHub org:
> > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-druid
> > > - Migrated our web site to https://druid.apache.org/
> > > - Migrated developer conversations to the list at d...@druid.apache.org
> > >
> > > Now the Druid community is bringing the attached resolution up for a
> > formal
> > > IPMC VOTE.
> > >
> > > Please take a minute to vote on whether or not Apache Druid should
> > graduate
> > > to a Top Level Project by responding with one of the following:
> > >
> > > [ ] +1 Apache Druid should graduate
> > > [ ]  0 No opinion
> > > [ ] -1 Apache Druid should not graduate because...
> > >
> > > The VOTE is open for a minimum of 72 hours.
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/68fcc3d2fc66c7f559e2c9dd02478d17f195565fecdb07ed53bc965e@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > > [2]
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/10c615a7648db14a268759be91f4b1eff448960f5338e0d416c7373a@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > > [3]
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/7517dd38fbeb28978b1188bed1d69e91445927d13d520a4c71ae9fcf@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > > [4] https://gist.github.com/gianm/33ae4d61ebaa8b8714d9e2f51a11e7f7
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Establish Apache Druid Project
> > >
> > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > > interests of the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's
> > > purpose to establish a Project Management Committee charged with
> > > the creation and maintenance of open-source analytical database
> > > software, for distribution at no charge to the public.
> > >
> > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > > Committee (PMC), to be known as the "The Apache Druid Project",
> > > be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> > > Foundation; and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that The Apache Druid Project be and hereby is
> > > responsible for the creation and maintenance of an analytical
> > > database software project; and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Druid" be and
> > > hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at the
> > > direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of The Apache
> > > Druid Project, and to have primary responsibility for
> > > management of the projects within the scope of responsibility of
> > > The Apache Druid Project; and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> > > hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of The
> > > Apache Druid Project:
> > >
> > >  * Benedict Jin (asdf2...@apache.org)
> > >  * Charles Allen(cral...@apache.org)
> > >  * Clint Wylie  (cwy...@apache.org)
> > >  * David Lim(david...@apache.org)
> > >  * Dylan Wylie  (dylanwy...@apache.org)
> > >  * Eric Tschetter   (ched...@apache.org)
> > >  * Fangjin Yang (f...@apache.org)
> > >  * Gian Merlino (g...@apache.org)
> > >  * Himanshu Gupta   (himans...@apache.org)
> > >  * Jihoon Son   (jihoon...@apache.org)
> > >  * Jonathan Wei (jon...@apache.org)
> > >  * Julian Hyde  (jh...@apache.org)
> > >  * Kurt Young   (k...@apache.org)
> > >  * Lijin Bin(binli...@apache.org)
> > >  * Maxime Beauchemin(maximebeauche...@apache.org)
> > >  * Niketh Sabbineni (nik...@apache.org)
> > >  * Nishant Bangarwa (nish...@apache.org)
> > >  * P. Taylor Goetz  (ptgo...@apache.org)
> > >  * Parag Jain   (pja...@apache.org)
> > >  * Roman Leventov   (leven...@apache.org)
> > >  * Slim Bouguerra   (bs...@apache.org)
> > >  * Surekha Saharan  (sure...@apache.org)
> > >  * Xavier Léauté(x...@apache.org)
> > >
> > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Gian Merlino
> > > be

Re: [VOTE] Recommend 'Apache Druid graduation to Top Level Project' resolution to the board

+1 (binding)

Regarding: QU30: See https://www.apache.org/security/ and 
https://www.apache.org/security/committers.html

https://druid.apache.org/druid-powered is impressive.

Regards,
Dave


> On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:03 AM, Gian Merlino  wrote:
> 
> The Apache Druid community has recently discussed our readiness for
> graduation [1] and voted on it affirmatively [2, 3]. We've also assessed
> ourselves against the maturity model [4] and collaborated on a resolution
> for graduation including PMC membership and PMC chair.
> 
> The community's achievements since entering the Incubator in early 2018
> include the following:
> 
> - Accepted 1240 patches from 142 contributors
> - Performed 5 releases with 4 different release managers
> - Invited 10 new committers
> - Some time later on, invited all 10 of those new committers to join the
> PMC (those that have accepted are named in the resolution below)
> - Migrated development to Apache's GitHub org:
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-druid
> - Migrated our web site to https://druid.apache.org/
> - Migrated developer conversations to the list at d...@druid.apache.org
> 
> Now the Druid community is bringing the attached resolution up for a formal
> IPMC VOTE.
> 
> Please take a minute to vote on whether or not Apache Druid should graduate
> to a Top Level Project by responding with one of the following:
> 
> [ ] +1 Apache Druid should graduate
> [ ]  0 No opinion
> [ ] -1 Apache Druid should not graduate because...
> 
> The VOTE is open for a minimum of 72 hours.
> 
> [1]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/68fcc3d2fc66c7f559e2c9dd02478d17f195565fecdb07ed53bc965e@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> [2]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/10c615a7648db14a268759be91f4b1eff448960f5338e0d416c7373a@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> [3]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/7517dd38fbeb28978b1188bed1d69e91445927d13d520a4c71ae9fcf@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> [4] https://gist.github.com/gianm/33ae4d61ebaa8b8714d9e2f51a11e7f7
> 
> --
> 
> Establish Apache Druid Project
> 
> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's
> purpose to establish a Project Management Committee charged with
> the creation and maintenance of open-source analytical database
> software, for distribution at no charge to the public.
> 
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "The Apache Druid Project",
> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> Foundation; and be it further
> 
> RESOLVED, that The Apache Druid Project be and hereby is
> responsible for the creation and maintenance of an analytical
> database software project; and be it further
> 
> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Druid" be and
> hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at the
> direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of The Apache
> Druid Project, and to have primary responsibility for
> management of the projects within the scope of responsibility of
> The Apache Druid Project; and be it further
> 
> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of The
> Apache Druid Project:
> 
>  * Benedict Jin (asdf2...@apache.org)
>  * Charles Allen(cral...@apache.org)
>  * Clint Wylie  (cwy...@apache.org)
>  * David Lim(david...@apache.org)
>  * Dylan Wylie  (dylanwy...@apache.org)
>  * Eric Tschetter   (ched...@apache.org)
>  * Fangjin Yang (f...@apache.org)
>  * Gian Merlino (g...@apache.org)
>  * Himanshu Gupta   (himans...@apache.org)
>  * Jihoon Son   (jihoon...@apache.org)
>  * Jonathan Wei (jon...@apache.org)
>  * Julian Hyde  (jh...@apache.org)
>  * Kurt Young   (k...@apache.org)
>  * Lijin Bin(binli...@apache.org)
>  * Maxime Beauchemin(maximebeauche...@apache.org)
>  * Niketh Sabbineni (nik...@apache.org)
>  * Nishant Bangarwa (nish...@apache.org)
>  * P. Taylor Goetz  (ptgo...@apache.org)
>  * Parag Jain   (pja...@apache.org)
>  * Roman Leventov   (leven...@apache.org)
>  * Slim Bouguerra   (bs...@apache.org)
>  * Surekha Saharan  (sure...@apache.org)
>  * Xavier Léauté(x...@apache.org)
> 
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Gian Merlino
> be and hereby is appointed to the office of Vice President,
> Druid, to serve in accordance with and subject to the direction
> of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
> death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification, or
> until a successor is appointed; and be it further
> 
> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Druid Project be and hereby
> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
> Incubator Druid podling; and be it further
> 
> RESOLVED, that all responsibility pertaining to the Apache
> Incubator Druid

Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking

2019-08-13 Thread Julian Hyde

I agree with a lot of Dave Fisher's points.

Some mentors will fail. Let's not waste effort trying to 'vet' them
beforehand; it's time-consuming and counter-productive. Let's instead
make it easier to detect when mentors fail (I think the "Have your
mentors been helpful?" question on podling reports helps with that,
but we need to do more), and let's try to increase the supply of
potential good mentors. That way, we'll end up with good mentors, and
we'll bring active new members into the Foundation.

Julian

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:40 AM Hao Chen  wrote:
>
> I founded some apache project and graduated to TLP, and also keep
> contributing to some other apache projects but almost in code, wonder to
> know how to volunteer as IPMC to help some incubator projects graduate in
> Apache way.
>
> Hao Chen
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 7:43 AM Dave Fisher  wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Aug 13, 2019, at 2:39 AM, Justin Mclean 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > HI,
> > >
> > > I think there's a couple of misconceptions in this thread. First off
> > currently you can join the IPMC two ways by being an ASF member and asking
> > to join, the other by being voted in. On average the people being voted in
> > tend to not go missing, review releases and sign off board reports more
> > frequently.
> > >
> > > This has come up on list the list before and some (ex)board members have
> > suggested that the IPMC shouldn’t;t allow people to be added this way.
> > >
> > > The suggestion here isn’t to be exclusionary, in fact we now allow
> > people who have experience in incubator to ask if they can join, as it
> > often hard for the IPMC to recognise merit, but they still need to be voted
> > in. [1] When a project graduates I go though the PMC list and see if there
> > are any likely IPMC candidates and contact them to see if they are
> > interested, you’ll notice that more people have been voted in in recent
> > times. In another thread I’ve gone one step further and suggested that
> > mentors look out for people on their projects list who are release managers
> > and vote on releases and suggest they be voted in as IPMC members. [2]
> > (Option D). I agree the bar should be low.
> > >
> > > I do find it strange that we would allow people from a privileged group
> > to auto join, when they possibly may not have shown merit and/or have not
> > being involved in the incubator or an incubating project before. Obviously
> > this doesn’t apply to all ASF members that ask join the incubator, but I
> > can point to examples where this has given rise to serious issues. We’ve
> > even had the occasional mentor who has never sent an email to their
> > podlings list, never voted on a release and never signed off a board report.
> >
> > This is a different problem. I’ve seen nonmember mentors who were voted in
> > who never really do anything. Let’s face it life intrudes in one way or
> > another. One hopes that such mentors will resign, but they usually fade
> > away.
> >
> > Let’s focus on service to podlings and try to replace mentors who for
> > whatever reason cannot help.
> >
> > Following through with your proposal creates an IPMC that is not fully
> > trusting the Membership. The membership of The ASF is the Foundation. These
> > people have attained merit.
> >
> > >
> > > I don’t mind if their's not consensus on this and letting this stay.
> > There may be better ways to make sure mentors who sign up do their job and
> > make mentors are more engaged. Please post your suggestions to this list
> > for discussion.
> >
> > I reject the use of the verb “make” for this problem. We should “help”
> > mentors and podling communities “be” more engaged. We should “help”
> > podlings and mentors when Incubation is not working.
> >
> > Mentoring is voluntary. So is Membership.
> >
> > We need to have strong Champions who know how to bring willing and able
> > podlings and mentors into the Incubator.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dave
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Justin
> > >
> > > 1.
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9ee3860bc9066ba682484542d34976ab21d9b62106f26a96f19d997f@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> > > 2.
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/8c6e12bb040856dddb5d9b7b4821739e441455f3c61c6e469eb98f81@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> > > -
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org

[LAZY][VOTE] Release Apache IoTDB (Incubating) 0.8.0 RC3

Hello all,

This is a call for vote to release Apache IoTDB (Incubating) version 0.8.0, 
which is the first Apache Release for the IoTDB Project.

The Apache IoTDB community has voted on and approved a proposal to release
Apache IoTDB (Incubating) version 0.8.0.

We now kindly request the Incubator PMC members review and vote on this
incubator release.

Apache IoTDB (incubating) (Database for Internet of Things) is an integrated 
data management engine designed for timeseries data. It provides users with 
services for data collection, storage and analysis.

IoTDB community vote and result thread:
Result: 
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/19c913987145a2dc0afced626131e084fc3b1ab7e1ca1dde07a5b977@%3Cdev.iotdb.apache.org%3E
Vote: 
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/d1272646baf81a0d2d62308cfb7a6e4fc754e377a043068409b0b9ed@%3Cdev.iotdb.apache.org%3E

The release candidates (RC3):
https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/iotdb/0.8.0/rc3

Git tag for the release (RC3):
https://github.com/apache/incubator-iotdb/releases/tag/release%2F0.8.0

Hash for the release tag:
2f4da03b05d1c063eaaca622c68de86abe35de22

Release Notes:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-iotdb/blob/2f4da03b05d1c063eaaca622c68de86abe35de22/RELEASE_NOTES.md

The artifacts have been signed with Key : C336E0143A553B89, which can be
found in the keys file:
https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/iotdb/KEYS

Look at here for how to verify this release candidate:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IOTDB/Validating+a+staged+Release

The vote will be open for at least 72 hours.

From the PPMC Vote we cary over 4 binding IPMC Votes:

+1 from Justin McLean,
+1 from Christofer Dutz,
+1 from Kevin A. McGrail,
+1 from Julian Feinauer

Thus, I took the freedom to declare the Vote as Lazy as no futher positive 
votes are necessary and only a -1 Vote could cancel the vote.

Please vote accordingly:
[ ] +1 approve
[ ] +0 no opinion
[ ] -1 disapprove with the reason

Julian
Apache IoTDB

Re: [VOTE] Recommend 'Apache Druid graduation to Top Level Project' resolution to the board

2019-08-13 Thread Ryan Blue

+1

Congratulations!

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:03 PM Myrle Krantz  wrote:

> +1 binding  I'm looking forward to welcoming you to the fold! : o)
>
> Best,
> Myrle
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 9:10 PM Suneel Marthi  wrote:
>
> > +1 binding
> >
> > Congrats !!
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 3:06 PM Julian Feinauer <
> > j.feina...@pragmaticminds.de> wrote:
> >
> > > +1 (binding)
> > >
> > > Congratulations!
> > >
> > > Julian
> > >
> > >
> > >  Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
> > > Betreff: Re: [VOTE] Recommend 'Apache Druid graduation to Top Level
> > > Project' resolution to the board
> > > Von: Julian Hyde
> > > An: general@incubator.apache.org
> > > Cc:
> > >
> > > +1
> > >
> > > Good luck! It has been great mentoring you guys.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:40 AM Andrei Savu  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > +1 (binding)
> > > >
> > > > Congrats! Great to see such an active community.
> > > >
> > > > -- Andrei Savu
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:03 AM Gian Merlino 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The Apache Druid community has recently discussed our readiness for
> > > > > graduation [1] and voted on it affirmatively [2, 3]. We've also
> > > assessed
> > > > > ourselves against the maturity model [4] and collaborated on a
> > > resolution
> > > > > for graduation including PMC membership and PMC chair.
> > > > >
> > > > > The community's achievements since entering the Incubator in early
> > 2018
> > > > > include the following:
> > > > >
> > > > > - Accepted 1240 patches from 142 contributors
> > > > > - Performed 5 releases with 4 different release managers
> > > > > - Invited 10 new committers
> > > > > - Some time later on, invited all 10 of those new committers to
> join
> > > the
> > > > > PMC (those that have accepted are named in the resolution below)
> > > > > - Migrated development to Apache's GitHub org:
> > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-druid
> > > > > - Migrated our web site to https://druid.apache.org/
> > > > > - Migrated developer conversations to the list at
> > d...@druid.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > > Now the Druid community is bringing the attached resolution up for
> a
> > > formal
> > > > > IPMC VOTE.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please take a minute to vote on whether or not Apache Druid should
> > > graduate
> > > > > to a Top Level Project by responding with one of the following:
> > > > >
> > > > > [ ] +1 Apache Druid should graduate
> > > > > [ ]  0 No opinion
> > > > > [ ] -1 Apache Druid should not graduate because...
> > > > >
> > > > > The VOTE is open for a minimum of 72 hours.
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/68fcc3d2fc66c7f559e2c9dd02478d17f195565fecdb07ed53bc965e@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > > > > [2]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/10c615a7648db14a268759be91f4b1eff448960f5338e0d416c7373a@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > > > > [3]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/7517dd38fbeb28978b1188bed1d69e91445927d13d520a4c71ae9fcf@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > > > > [4] https://gist.github.com/gianm/33ae4d61ebaa8b8714d9e2f51a11e7f7
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > Establish Apache Druid Project
> > > > >
> > > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > > > > interests of the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's
> > > > > purpose to establish a Project Management Committee charged with
> > > > > the creation and maintenance of open-source analytical database
> > > > > software, for distribution at no charge to the public.
> > > > >
> > > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > > > > Committee (PMC), to be known as the "The Apache Druid Project",
> > > > > be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> > > > > Foundation; and be it further
> > > > >
> > > > > RESOLVED, that The Apache Druid Project be and hereby is
> > > > > responsible for the creation and maintenance of an analytical
> > > > > database software project; and be it further
> > > > >
> > > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Druid" be and
> > > > > hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at the
> > > > > direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of The Apache
> > > > > Druid Project, and to have primary responsibility for
> > > > > management of the projects within the scope of responsibility of
> > > > > The Apache Druid Project; and be it further
> > > > >
> > > > > RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> > > > > hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of The
> > > > > Apache Druid Project:
> > > > >
> > > > >   * Benedict Jin (asdf2...@apache.org)
> > > > >   * Charles Allen(cral...@apache.org)
> > > > >   * Clint Wylie  (cwy...@apache.org)
> > > > >   * David Lim(david...@apache.org)
> > > > >   * Dylan Wylie  (dylanwy...@apache.org)
> > > > >   * Eric

Re: [VOTE] Recommend 'Apache Druid graduation to Top Level Project' resolution to the board

2019-08-13 Thread Myrle Krantz

+1 binding  I'm looking forward to welcoming you to the fold! : o)

Best,
Myrle

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 9:10 PM Suneel Marthi  wrote:

> +1 binding
>
> Congrats !!
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 3:06 PM Julian Feinauer <
> j.feina...@pragmaticminds.de> wrote:
>
> > +1 (binding)
> >
> > Congratulations!
> >
> > Julian
> >
> >
> >  Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
> > Betreff: Re: [VOTE] Recommend 'Apache Druid graduation to Top Level
> > Project' resolution to the board
> > Von: Julian Hyde
> > An: general@incubator.apache.org
> > Cc:
> >
> > +1
> >
> > Good luck! It has been great mentoring you guys.
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:40 AM Andrei Savu  wrote:
> > >
> > > +1 (binding)
> > >
> > > Congrats! Great to see such an active community.
> > >
> > > -- Andrei Savu
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:03 AM Gian Merlino  wrote:
> > >
> > > > The Apache Druid community has recently discussed our readiness for
> > > > graduation [1] and voted on it affirmatively [2, 3]. We've also
> > assessed
> > > > ourselves against the maturity model [4] and collaborated on a
> > resolution
> > > > for graduation including PMC membership and PMC chair.
> > > >
> > > > The community's achievements since entering the Incubator in early
> 2018
> > > > include the following:
> > > >
> > > > - Accepted 1240 patches from 142 contributors
> > > > - Performed 5 releases with 4 different release managers
> > > > - Invited 10 new committers
> > > > - Some time later on, invited all 10 of those new committers to join
> > the
> > > > PMC (those that have accepted are named in the resolution below)
> > > > - Migrated development to Apache's GitHub org:
> > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-druid
> > > > - Migrated our web site to https://druid.apache.org/
> > > > - Migrated developer conversations to the list at
> d...@druid.apache.org
> > > >
> > > > Now the Druid community is bringing the attached resolution up for a
> > formal
> > > > IPMC VOTE.
> > > >
> > > > Please take a minute to vote on whether or not Apache Druid should
> > graduate
> > > > to a Top Level Project by responding with one of the following:
> > > >
> > > > [ ] +1 Apache Druid should graduate
> > > > [ ]  0 No opinion
> > > > [ ] -1 Apache Druid should not graduate because...
> > > >
> > > > The VOTE is open for a minimum of 72 hours.
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/68fcc3d2fc66c7f559e2c9dd02478d17f195565fecdb07ed53bc965e@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > > > [2]
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/10c615a7648db14a268759be91f4b1eff448960f5338e0d416c7373a@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > > > [3]
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/7517dd38fbeb28978b1188bed1d69e91445927d13d520a4c71ae9fcf@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > > > [4] https://gist.github.com/gianm/33ae4d61ebaa8b8714d9e2f51a11e7f7
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Establish Apache Druid Project
> > > >
> > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > > > interests of the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's
> > > > purpose to establish a Project Management Committee charged with
> > > > the creation and maintenance of open-source analytical database
> > > > software, for distribution at no charge to the public.
> > > >
> > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > > > Committee (PMC), to be known as the "The Apache Druid Project",
> > > > be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> > > > Foundation; and be it further
> > > >
> > > > RESOLVED, that The Apache Druid Project be and hereby is
> > > > responsible for the creation and maintenance of an analytical
> > > > database software project; and be it further
> > > >
> > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Druid" be and
> > > > hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at the
> > > > direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of The Apache
> > > > Druid Project, and to have primary responsibility for
> > > > management of the projects within the scope of responsibility of
> > > > The Apache Druid Project; and be it further
> > > >
> > > > RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> > > > hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of The
> > > > Apache Druid Project:
> > > >
> > > >   * Benedict Jin (asdf2...@apache.org)
> > > >   * Charles Allen(cral...@apache.org)
> > > >   * Clint Wylie  (cwy...@apache.org)
> > > >   * David Lim(david...@apache.org)
> > > >   * Dylan Wylie  (dylanwy...@apache.org)
> > > >   * Eric Tschetter   (ched...@apache.org)
> > > >   * Fangjin Yang (f...@apache.org)
> > > >   * Gian Merlino (g...@apache.org)
> > > >   * Himanshu Gupta   (himans...@apache.org)
> > > >   * Jihoon Son   (jihoon...@apache.org)
> > > >   * Jonathan Wei (jon...@apache.org)
> > > >   * Julian Hyde  (jh...@apache.org)
>

[IP CLEARANCE] Apache Beam ZetaSQL Translator

2019-08-13 Thread Kenneth Knowles

Apache Beam has received a code donation of a ZetaSQL Translator

The IP clearance document is at
http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/beam-zetasql-translator.html

The pull request is https://github.com/apache/beam/pull/6561/

Please review in the next 72 hours, then IP clearance will proceed by lazy
consensus.

Thanks!

Kenn

Re: [IP CLEARANCE] Apache Beam ZetaSQL Translator

2019-08-13 Thread Julian Hyde

Do you mean https://github.com/apache/beam/pull/9210 
 ? 6561 is the Dataflow Runner. 

> On Aug 13, 2019, at 2:07 PM, Kenneth Knowles  wrote:
> 
> Apache Beam has received a code donation of a ZetaSQL Translator
> 
> The IP clearance document is at
> http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/beam-zetasql-translator.html
> 
> The pull request is https://github.com/apache/beam/pull/6561/
> 
> Please review in the next 72 hours, then IP clearance will proceed by lazy
> consensus.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Kenn

Re: Business decisions and risk (was: [DISCUSS] IPMC votes on releases)

Hi,

> I am for option (F) with the addition of Myrle’s [REVIEW] until such time as 
> the podling is fully compliant with Apache Release Policy and goes through 
> the usual process. Abiding by the Apache Release Policy would remain a 
> Graduation Requirement.

I’ll note not a single podling has asked for a [REVIEW].

> So, we treat these releases as not fully approved the same way we treat 
> Binary Conveniences.

They are not the same as binary conveniences, as they are derived from a voted 
on approved release. Thinking about (F) if they are not official releases could 
a podling:
a) Call them Apache releases? (Not doing may have a number of implications 
including naming of artefacts, package names and the like),
b) Place tham on a download page on their ASF provided website? If so what 
would be required to make it clear they are not approved releases?

We might want to check with branding and legal and get their input on this.

My concerns are that:
a) As IPMC votes are not required, less IPMC people (including mentors) look at 
the releases or are less thorough in doing so, and things slip through
b) This become a hard gate at the worse time i.e. graduation. What happens if a 
community proposed graduation and it found it’s releases have serious issue?

Thanks,
Justin
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AW: [VOTE] Recommend 'Apache Druid graduation to Top Level Project' resolution to the board

+1 (binding)

Congratulations!

Julian


 Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
Betreff: Re: [VOTE] Recommend 'Apache Druid graduation to Top Level Project' 
resolution to the board
Von: Julian Hyde
An: general@incubator.apache.org
Cc:

+1

Good luck! It has been great mentoring you guys.

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:40 AM Andrei Savu  wrote:
>
> +1 (binding)
>
> Congrats! Great to see such an active community.
>
> -- Andrei Savu
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:03 AM Gian Merlino  wrote:
>
> > The Apache Druid community has recently discussed our readiness for
> > graduation [1] and voted on it affirmatively [2, 3]. We've also assessed
> > ourselves against the maturity model [4] and collaborated on a resolution
> > for graduation including PMC membership and PMC chair.
> >
> > The community's achievements since entering the Incubator in early 2018
> > include the following:
> >
> > - Accepted 1240 patches from 142 contributors
> > - Performed 5 releases with 4 different release managers
> > - Invited 10 new committers
> > - Some time later on, invited all 10 of those new committers to join the
> > PMC (those that have accepted are named in the resolution below)
> > - Migrated development to Apache's GitHub org:
> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-druid
> > - Migrated our web site to https://druid.apache.org/
> > - Migrated developer conversations to the list at d...@druid.apache.org
> >
> > Now the Druid community is bringing the attached resolution up for a formal
> > IPMC VOTE.
> >
> > Please take a minute to vote on whether or not Apache Druid should graduate
> > to a Top Level Project by responding with one of the following:
> >
> > [ ] +1 Apache Druid should graduate
> > [ ]  0 No opinion
> > [ ] -1 Apache Druid should not graduate because...
> >
> > The VOTE is open for a minimum of 72 hours.
> >
> > [1]
> >
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/68fcc3d2fc66c7f559e2c9dd02478d17f195565fecdb07ed53bc965e@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > [2]
> >
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/10c615a7648db14a268759be91f4b1eff448960f5338e0d416c7373a@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > [3]
> >
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/7517dd38fbeb28978b1188bed1d69e91445927d13d520a4c71ae9fcf@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > [4] https://gist.github.com/gianm/33ae4d61ebaa8b8714d9e2f51a11e7f7
> >
> > --
> >
> > Establish Apache Druid Project
> >
> > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > interests of the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's
> > purpose to establish a Project Management Committee charged with
> > the creation and maintenance of open-source analytical database
> > software, for distribution at no charge to the public.
> >
> > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > Committee (PMC), to be known as the "The Apache Druid Project",
> > be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> > Foundation; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that The Apache Druid Project be and hereby is
> > responsible for the creation and maintenance of an analytical
> > database software project; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Druid" be and
> > hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at the
> > direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of The Apache
> > Druid Project, and to have primary responsibility for
> > management of the projects within the scope of responsibility of
> > The Apache Druid Project; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> > hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of The
> > Apache Druid Project:
> >
> >   * Benedict Jin (asdf2...@apache.org)
> >   * Charles Allen(cral...@apache.org)
> >   * Clint Wylie  (cwy...@apache.org)
> >   * David Lim(david...@apache.org)
> >   * Dylan Wylie  (dylanwy...@apache.org)
> >   * Eric Tschetter   (ched...@apache.org)
> >   * Fangjin Yang (f...@apache.org)
> >   * Gian Merlino (g...@apache.org)
> >   * Himanshu Gupta   (himans...@apache.org)
> >   * Jihoon Son   (jihoon...@apache.org)
> >   * Jonathan Wei (jon...@apache.org)
> >   * Julian Hyde  (jh...@apache.org)
> >   * Kurt Young   (k...@apache.org)
> >   * Lijin Bin(binli...@apache.org)
> >   * Maxime Beauchemin(maximebeauche...@apache.org)
> >   * Niketh Sabbineni (nik...@apache.org)
> >   * Nishant Bangarwa (nish...@apache.org)
> >   * P. Taylor Goetz  (ptgo...@apache.org)
> >   * Parag Jain   (pja...@apache.org)
> >   * Roman Leventov   (leven...@apache.org)
> >   * Slim Bouguerra   (bs...@apache.org)
> >   * Surekha Saharan  (sure...@apache.org)
> >   * Xavier Léauté(x...@apache.org)
> >
> > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Gian Merlino
> > be and hereby is appointed to the office of Vice President,
> > Druid, to serve in accordance with and subject to the

Re: Business decisions and risk (was: [DISCUSS] IPMC votes on releases)

2019-08-13 Thread Ross Gardler

When I used to do endless apache way talks I used to say "if you are using an 
Incubator project expect to invest in both engineering and legal, but once a 
project is a TLP your legal can reduce and engineering becomes about your use 
rather than community progrwe towards TLP"

In other words Jim is right IMHO

---

Sent from my phone, you know what that means - sorry


From: Dave Fisher 
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 9:22:26 AM
To: general 
Subject: Re: Business decisions and risk (was: [DISCUSS] IPMC votes on releases)

Hi Ted,

This subthread as named by Greg is really about this:

> On Aug 11, 2019, at 5:56 PM, Greg Stein  wrote:
>
> See further below for an unfortunately trimmed thread. A couple paragraphs
> that I wrote early-thread are important to add:
>
> 
> Option (F): stop calling them official ASF releases, which means PMC votes
> are not required.
> ——

I am for option (F) with the addition of Myrle’s [REVIEW] until such time as 
the podling is fully compliant with Apache Release Policy and goes through the 
usual process. Abiding by the Apache Release Policy would remain a Graduation 
Requirement.

So, we treat these releases as not fully approved the same way we treat Binary 
Conveniences.

I think that this pattern grows the PPMC into a true PMC better by expecting 
that licensing issues which require vigilance become part of the Project’s DNA 
in a more organic way.

Regards,
Dave

> On Aug 13, 2019, at 9:09 AM, Ted Dunning  wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> I understand the problem with long delays. What I don't understand is how
> the proposal changes any of that.
>
> 90% of project release still require additional votes. How will that change?
>
> Every other change is peripheral.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 8:37 AM Dave Fisher  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>> On Aug 12, 2019, at 1:34 PM, Ted Dunning  wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 11:10 AM Dave Fisher > w...@apache.org>> wrote:
>>>


> On Aug 12, 2019, at 10:02 AM, Ted Dunning 
>> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 9:24 AM Jim Jagielski  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>> On Aug 12, 2019, at 10:44 AM, Ted Dunning 
 wrote:
>> ...
 "The Apache Podling Foo has voted on releasing Foo 1.2.2 (url and
 pointers here). We have 3 (or more) binding votes from mentors. We
>> are
 giving the IPMC and additional 72 hours to vote on said release."

>>>
>>>
>>> This is good in theory, but as Justin has pointed out, 90% of podling
>>> releases don't have enough mentor votes to follow this path.
>>>
>>> The 10% that do have enough votes can easily follow this process.
>>
>> Then the ones that don't have enough mentors still require the 3 +1
>> binding votes. The idea is that if the podling already has it, then
>> the
>> IPMC "vote" is more procedural than anything else. If they don't, then
>> either the mentors need to step up or the IPMC fills in the gap.
>>
>> The goal is to avoid having the Incubator be a gate-keeper.
>>
>
>
> I don't understand how this is all that different from what we have
>> now.
 If
> three mentors (and thus IPMC members) vote yes, then opening up the
>> vote
 to
> include the IPMC is just like what you said, "we have three votes
>> already
> and unless somebody points out something heinous, this is going to be a
> release". Whether the IPMC is a gatekeeper or a rubber stamp in these
 cases
> is a tiny matter of nomenclature because the effect is typically a
>> rubber
> stamp (although some of these releases are examined carefully and
>> things
> turn up).
>
> In the large majority of cases, the Incubator is definitely not a
> gatekeeper. If anything, the non-mentor IPMC votes are enablers that
 allow
> a release to go forward when it would otherwise fail.

 A week or two (an uncertain time) to do release votes as opposed to what
 may already be a significant increase to a minimum 3 days will FEEL
>> like a
 closed GATE. (For example Zipkin really felt gated.)

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave,
>>>
>>> I don't understand your point.
>>
>> My point is that what you describe below are the ideal results. We all
>> know that while the podling itself can do release votes in 72 hours it
>> often takes the IPMC much more than 72 hours to vote. It used to be weeks
>> and has improved significantly to where most podlings can be done inside of
>> one week.
>>
>> The timing and uncertainty of this is too much for some previously
>> established communities. For instance I think that this indeterminate lag
>> is one of the causes that made Zipkin a poor fit here.
>>
>> We've relaxed DISCLAIMERs. Should we wait to see if this improves the
>> situation, or should we do another small step and essentially follow
>> Myrle’s Review plan[1] for all general@ votes?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>
>> [1]
>>

Re: Business decisions and risk (was: [DISCUSS] IPMC votes on releases)

2019-08-13 Thread Ross Gardler

I see I was volunteer... OK let's do it.

---

Sent from my phone, you know what that means - sorry

From: David Nalley 
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 8:31:29 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org 
Subject: Re: Business decisions and risk (was: [DISCUSS] IPMC votes on releases)

>
> I'd like to see the IPMC get out of the way of the podlings' releases. I
> see no reason for us to be a gate, and many more reasons to back off and
> let podlings get their work done.
>

I strongly agree with your sentiment, even if I differ with your tactics a bit.

I think that they are releases (e.g. we the foundation accrues a bit
of risk when releasing, and in turn shield our contributors from risk
as we've promised) Obviously we aren't claiming that they are perfect
apache releases that meet the minimum apache guidelines for
cleanliness) and that we should recognize that risk by having the fact
that they are incubating clearly in the name. (Oh wait, we already do
that.) We also have the new disclaimer in there for good measure.

This, IMO, exposes the ASF to a very (teensy weensy) slight increase
in risk, but for a much greater community gain. We have DMCA safe
harbor process to shield us from a good deal of the risk. The podling
gets to move faster, and hopefully learn and grow faster in the
process.

Failure isn't the problem, IMO. In fact we should be pushing people to
fail faster, so that each time the release gets a little better, and
each time the community grows, and more people understand the
processes and problems.

Greg - I propose that you, Ross (sorry for volunteering you), and I
pick an incubating project in need of mentor attention and make this
as streamlined as we can. Let's focus on educating and enabling and
not gatekeeping. Let's prove out the concept and stop beating this
poor horse so much. :)

--David

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AW: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking

Hi,

I fully agree with Julian here. But we should beware not to start a witch hunt 
about 'bad mentors' but develop an environment where one can step back as 
mentor if priorities change or for other reasons are no longer able to mentor. 
Everybody is a volunteer here so we should thank everybody for their effort and 
not be 'mad' if they 'do not enough'.

But on the other hand this should encourage mentors who can for whatever reason 
not support their podlings enough to speak freely or look for others to fill in 
their spots.

JulianF


 Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just 
asking
Von: Julian Hyde
An: general@incubator.apache.org
Cc:

I agree with a lot of Dave Fisher's points.

Some mentors will fail. Let's not waste effort trying to 'vet' them
beforehand; it's time-consuming and counter-productive. Let's instead
make it easier to detect when mentors fail (I think the "Have your
mentors been helpful?" question on podling reports helps with that,
but we need to do more), and let's try to increase the supply of
potential good mentors. That way, we'll end up with good mentors, and
we'll bring active new members into the Foundation.

Julian

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:40 AM Hao Chen  wrote:
>
> I founded some apache project and graduated to TLP, and also keep
> contributing to some other apache projects but almost in code, wonder to
> know how to volunteer as IPMC to help some incubator projects graduate in
> Apache way.
>
> Hao Chen
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 7:43 AM Dave Fisher  wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Aug 13, 2019, at 2:39 AM, Justin Mclean 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > HI,
> > >
> > > I think there's a couple of misconceptions in this thread. First off
> > currently you can join the IPMC two ways by being an ASF member and asking
> > to join, the other by being voted in. On average the people being voted in
> > tend to not go missing, review releases and sign off board reports more
> > frequently.
> > >
> > > This has come up on list the list before and some (ex)board members have
> > suggested that the IPMC shouldn’t;t allow people to be added this way.
> > >
> > > The suggestion here isn’t to be exclusionary, in fact we now allow
> > people who have experience in incubator to ask if they can join, as it
> > often hard for the IPMC to recognise merit, but they still need to be voted
> > in. [1] When a project graduates I go though the PMC list and see if there
> > are any likely IPMC candidates and contact them to see if they are
> > interested, you’ll notice that more people have been voted in in recent
> > times. In another thread I’ve gone one step further and suggested that
> > mentors look out for people on their projects list who are release managers
> > and vote on releases and suggest they be voted in as IPMC members. [2]
> > (Option D). I agree the bar should be low.
> > >
> > > I do find it strange that we would allow people from a privileged group
> > to auto join, when they possibly may not have shown merit and/or have not
> > being involved in the incubator or an incubating project before. Obviously
> > this doesn’t apply to all ASF members that ask join the incubator, but I
> > can point to examples where this has given rise to serious issues. We’ve
> > even had the occasional mentor who has never sent an email to their
> > podlings list, never voted on a release and never signed off a board report.
> >
> > This is a different problem. I’ve seen nonmember mentors who were voted in
> > who never really do anything. Let’s face it life intrudes in one way or
> > another. One hopes that such mentors will resign, but they usually fade
> > away.
> >
> > Let’s focus on service to podlings and try to replace mentors who for
> > whatever reason cannot help.
> >
> > Following through with your proposal creates an IPMC that is not fully
> > trusting the Membership. The membership of The ASF is the Foundation. These
> > people have attained merit.
> >
> > >
> > > I don’t mind if their's not consensus on this and letting this stay.
> > There may be better ways to make sure mentors who sign up do their job and
> > make mentors are more engaged. Please post your suggestions to this list
> > for discussion.
> >
> > I reject the use of the verb “make” for this problem. We should “help”
> > mentors and podling communities “be” more engaged. We should “help”
> > podlings and mentors when Incubation is not working.
> >
> > Mentoring is voluntary. So is Membership.
> >
> > We need to have strong Champions who know how to bring willing and able
> > podlings and mentors into the Incubator.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dave
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Justin
> > >
> > > 1.
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9ee3860bc9066ba682484542d34976ab21d9b62106f26a96f19d997f@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> > > 2.
> >

Re: [VOTE] Recommend 'Apache Druid graduation to Top Level Project' resolution to the board

2019-08-13 Thread Suneel Marthi

+1 binding

Congrats !!

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 3:06 PM Julian Feinauer <
j.feina...@pragmaticminds.de> wrote:

> +1 (binding)
>
> Congratulations!
>
> Julian
>
>
>  Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
> Betreff: Re: [VOTE] Recommend 'Apache Druid graduation to Top Level
> Project' resolution to the board
> Von: Julian Hyde
> An: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc:
>
> +1
>
> Good luck! It has been great mentoring you guys.
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:40 AM Andrei Savu  wrote:
> >
> > +1 (binding)
> >
> > Congrats! Great to see such an active community.
> >
> > -- Andrei Savu
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:03 AM Gian Merlino  wrote:
> >
> > > The Apache Druid community has recently discussed our readiness for
> > > graduation [1] and voted on it affirmatively [2, 3]. We've also
> assessed
> > > ourselves against the maturity model [4] and collaborated on a
> resolution
> > > for graduation including PMC membership and PMC chair.
> > >
> > > The community's achievements since entering the Incubator in early 2018
> > > include the following:
> > >
> > > - Accepted 1240 patches from 142 contributors
> > > - Performed 5 releases with 4 different release managers
> > > - Invited 10 new committers
> > > - Some time later on, invited all 10 of those new committers to join
> the
> > > PMC (those that have accepted are named in the resolution below)
> > > - Migrated development to Apache's GitHub org:
> > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-druid
> > > - Migrated our web site to https://druid.apache.org/
> > > - Migrated developer conversations to the list at d...@druid.apache.org
> > >
> > > Now the Druid community is bringing the attached resolution up for a
> formal
> > > IPMC VOTE.
> > >
> > > Please take a minute to vote on whether or not Apache Druid should
> graduate
> > > to a Top Level Project by responding with one of the following:
> > >
> > > [ ] +1 Apache Druid should graduate
> > > [ ]  0 No opinion
> > > [ ] -1 Apache Druid should not graduate because...
> > >
> > > The VOTE is open for a minimum of 72 hours.
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> > >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/68fcc3d2fc66c7f559e2c9dd02478d17f195565fecdb07ed53bc965e@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > > [2]
> > >
> > >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/10c615a7648db14a268759be91f4b1eff448960f5338e0d416c7373a@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > > [3]
> > >
> > >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/7517dd38fbeb28978b1188bed1d69e91445927d13d520a4c71ae9fcf@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > > [4] https://gist.github.com/gianm/33ae4d61ebaa8b8714d9e2f51a11e7f7
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Establish Apache Druid Project
> > >
> > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > > interests of the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's
> > > purpose to establish a Project Management Committee charged with
> > > the creation and maintenance of open-source analytical database
> > > software, for distribution at no charge to the public.
> > >
> > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > > Committee (PMC), to be known as the "The Apache Druid Project",
> > > be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> > > Foundation; and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that The Apache Druid Project be and hereby is
> > > responsible for the creation and maintenance of an analytical
> > > database software project; and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Druid" be and
> > > hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at the
> > > direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of The Apache
> > > Druid Project, and to have primary responsibility for
> > > management of the projects within the scope of responsibility of
> > > The Apache Druid Project; and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> > > hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of The
> > > Apache Druid Project:
> > >
> > >   * Benedict Jin (asdf2...@apache.org)
> > >   * Charles Allen(cral...@apache.org)
> > >   * Clint Wylie  (cwy...@apache.org)
> > >   * David Lim(david...@apache.org)
> > >   * Dylan Wylie  (dylanwy...@apache.org)
> > >   * Eric Tschetter   (ched...@apache.org)
> > >   * Fangjin Yang (f...@apache.org)
> > >   * Gian Merlino (g...@apache.org)
> > >   * Himanshu Gupta   (himans...@apache.org)
> > >   * Jihoon Son   (jihoon...@apache.org)
> > >   * Jonathan Wei (jon...@apache.org)
> > >   * Julian Hyde  (jh...@apache.org)
> > >   * Kurt Young   (k...@apache.org)
> > >   * Lijin Bin(binli...@apache.org)
> > >   * Maxime Beauchemin(maximebeauche...@apache.org)
> > >   * Niketh Sabbineni (nik...@apache.org)
> > >   * Nishant Bangarwa (nish...@apache.org)
> > >   * P. Taylor Goetz  (ptgo...@apache.org)
> > >   * Parag Jain   (pja...@apache.org)
> > >   * Roman Leventov

Re: Business decisions and risk (was: [DISCUSS] IPMC votes on releases)

2019-08-13 Thread Greg Stein

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 7:10 PM Justin Mclean 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > Here's an idea... The IPMC focuses on supporting mentors to do their job
> rather than forcing project developers and their mentors to jump through
> arbitrarily defined hoops.
>
> What "arbitrarily defined hoops” are you referring to? ASF policy or
> something else?
>

Hoops constructed by the IPMC. Like a secondary release vote on general@

> >  The IPMC doesn't need to enforce policy of any kind, except at the
> point of graduation.
>
> That seems less than ideal to me, why would a IPMC volunteer want to do
> that job? And again IMO it introduces a hard gate that podlings are going
> to dislike, probably more so than they do now.
>

They are gated day by day by day. Empirically, we already know the podlings
dislike this.

Let the podlings do their work. And say "nope. can't graduate now." ...
until they can.

>...

Cheers,
-g

Re: Business decisions and risk (was: [DISCUSS] IPMC votes on releases)

2019-08-13 Thread Ted Dunning

A vanity mentor is a person with a big name and a small amount of time.

Projects go for the name, the mentor goes for the ego boost and then
reality catches up. But, hey, you are "mentoring" 12 projects!



On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 5:18 PM David Jencks 
wrote:

> What’s a “vanity mentor“? How do I recognize one before a podling has a
> significant history? Who is currently accepting these vanity mentors and
> how would they stop doing so?
>
> Hindsight is 20-20... I have no crystal ball.
>
> David Jencks
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 13, 2019, at 5:10 PM, Justin Mclean 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >> Here's an idea... The IPMC focuses on supporting mentors to do their
> job rather than forcing project developers and their mentors to jump
> through arbitrarily defined hoops.
> >
> > What "arbitrarily defined hoops” are you referring to? ASF policy or
> something else?
> >
> >> The IPMC doesn't need to enforce policy of any kind, except at the
> point of graduation.
> >
> > That seems less than ideal to me, why would a IPMC volunteer want to do
> that job? And again IMO it introduces a hard gate that podlings are going
> to dislike, probably more so than they do now.
> >
> >> When things change for individuals and they can no longer be good
> mentors then the IPMC  needs to make it a priority to help find a new,
> truly dedicated mentor. It's a problem that needs to be solved, but let's
> worry about that when it's actually a problem rather than a hypothetical
> one.
> >
> > It’s currently a problem, not a hypothetical, see for instance votes
> coming to this list without 3 mentors +1 votes, or the missing reports or
> missing sign-offs on the current incubator report to the board. This
> problem isn’t going unrecognised either, you’ll also note that recently
> nearly every month new mentors have been found and added to podlings that
> need them.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Justin
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Druid (incubating) 0.15.1 [RC2]

2019-08-13 Thread Furkan KAMACI

Hi,

+1 from me.

I checked:
- Incubating in name
- Disclaimer exists
- LICENSE is fine
- No unexpected binary files
- Code compiles and tests successfully run

Kind Regards,
Furkan KAMACI

13 Ağu 2019 Sal, saat 13:04 tarihinde Justin Mclean <
jus...@classsoftware.com> şunu yazdı:

> Hi,
>
> > I was not directly involved in this, but it is my understanding that the
> > modifications to our source NOTICE file between 0.15.0-incubating and
> this
> > version are a result of this thread on the IPMC vote,
> >
> https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201906.mbox/%3CCAOGo0VZoqnNuMdBsbiPB1gzqdR_WAp8wyBx7jeANaKKkm6pavQ%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> .
> > which suggested that the NOTICE files should contain only what is
> strictly
> > required for the files actually contained in the bundle to which they
> > apply.
>
> Given you have soured files from all those project the minimum would be
> the project name and copyright line, I’m not seeing that. [1]
>
> > With regards to the 'lorem ipsum' text, I am unsure of how this is
> licensed
> > and somewhat surprised how hard this seems to be to find out
>
> I believe it’s either public domain or the copyright has expired deepening
> on teh versions you use but it’s not easy to find out. It not an issue,
> just a curiosity.
>
> >  I believe the wikiticker-2015-09-12-sampled.json.gz data was collected
> by Gian Merlino
> > from an IRC channel where a bot prints out all wikipedia edit activity in
> > real-ish time. I don't know and haven't yet found out the ownership
> details
> > of the contents of that IRC channel, I will try to follow-up and resolve
> > this as soon as I figure out how to do so.
>
> My guess is that you would need permission from the people who content is
> in that file, that’s probably going to be hard to obtain, so it may be best
> to replace it with something else if possible.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> 1. http://www.apache.org/dev/licensing-howto.html#bundle-asf-product
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

[VOTE] Release Apache Flagon UserALE.js (Incubating) v2.0.2

2019-08-13 Thread Joshua Poore


Hi Folks,
 
Please VOTE on the Apache Flagon 2.0.2 Release Candidate # 1

This VOTE has passed successfully within the Apache Flagon community. We are 
now posting the VOTE on general@ as required by Apache Release Management 
policies. 


Interim RESULT on dev@ are as follows:

[+1] 7  
Joshua Poore
Rob Foley (`Confused`)
Laura Mariano
Furkan Kamaci*
Arthi Vezhavendan
Tim Allison*
Dave Meikle*

[0] 0

[-1]

*Binding IPMC/PPMC Mentor VOTE

The VOTE thread on dev@ can be found here: 
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1d0efb2a17b1b1a3bb83a6bf882f994000f7d9db316f8b244db54076@%3Cdev.flagon.apache.org%3E
 

 


VOTE details follow:
 
About Flagon: http://flagon.incubator.apache.org/ 
 
 
This Patch release includes :
 
• Updates to package.json and package-lock.json to resolve downstream 
Prototype Pollution vulnerabilities in dev dependencies
• Updates to package.json and package-lock.json to modernize deprecated 
npm modules
• Minor updates to README documentation for UserALE.js' Example Test 
Utilities.
 
We solved 11 issues: 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/projects/FLAGON/versions/12345954 

 
Git source tag (43de2fc1e1c5d5e1a83119a91947f7bbe6d313f3): 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-flagon-useralejs/releases/tag/2.0.2-RC1-08_06_2019
 

 
Staging repo: https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/flagon/ 
 
 
Source Release Artifacts: 
https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/flagon/apache-flagon-useralejs-incubating-2.0.2-RC1/
 

 
PGP release keys (signed using F937rFAE3FCADF6E): 
https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/incubator/flagon/KEYS 
 
 
Reference the UserALE.js testing framework to assist in your unit and 
integration tests: 
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLAGON/UserALE.js+Testing+Framework 

 

Link to Successful Jenkins Build(s): 
https://builds.apache.org/job/useralejs-ci/91/ 
, 
https://builds.apache.org/job/useralejs-ci/92/ 

 
Vote will be open for 72 hours. Please VOTE as follows: 
 
[ ] +1, let's get it released!!!
[ ] +/-0, fine, but consider to fix few issues before...
[ ] -1, nope, because... (and please explain why)
Thank you to everyone that is able to VOTE as well as everyone that contributed 
to Apache Flagon 2.0.0

Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Flagon UserALE.js (Incubating) v2.0.2

Hi,

+1 (binding) on the source release, but sorry it’s -1 (binding) for the 
binaries as they are missing the DISCLAIMER file [2]

You might want to consider using a checklist when checking releases [1]. Also 
when voting on release it a good idea to list what you checked rather than just 
saying +1.

I checked:
- incubating in name
- signatures and hashes fine
- DISCLAIMER in source but not in binary releases
- LICENSE and NOTICE fine
- all source files have ASF headers
- no unexpected binary files in source release

There also no need to put the KEYS fine inside the release, it's sort of a bit 
late to find it there after you unzipped it :-)

Thanks,
Justin

1. 
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/Incubator+Release+Checklist
2. https://incubator.apache.org/policy/incubation.html#disclaimers
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Re: Business decisions and risk (was: [DISCUSS] IPMC votes on releases)

2019-08-13 Thread Ross Gardler

Here's an idea... The IPMC focuses on supporting mentors to do their job rather 
than forcing project developers and their mentors to jump through arbitrarily 
defined hoops.

That means stay out of the way until the mentor asks for a graduation vote. The 
IPMC doesn't need to enforce policy of any kind, except at the point of 
graduation. Policy is set and enforced by VP Legal, infra marketing, trademarks 
etc. The mentor can work directly with them as necessary.

I know holding mentors accountable is a tough job in itself, but if we quit 
accepting vanity mentors and instead focus on supporting mentors who have a 
personal interest in the success of the podling it shouldn't be too hard.

When things change for individuals and they can no longer be good mentors then 
the IPMC  needs to make it a priority to help find a new, truly dedicated 
mentor. It's a problem that needs to be solved, but let's worry about that when 
it's actually a problem rather than a hypothetical one.

Ross

---

Sent from my phone, you know what that means - sorry


From: Justin Mclean 
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 3:04:46 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org 
Subject: Re: Business decisions and risk (was: [DISCUSS] IPMC votes on releases)

Hi,

> I am for option (F) with the addition of Myrle’s [REVIEW] until such time as 
> the podling is fully compliant with Apache Release Policy and goes through 
> the usual process. Abiding by the Apache Release Policy would remain a 
> Graduation Requirement.

I’ll note not a single podling has asked for a [REVIEW].

> So, we treat these releases as not fully approved the same way we treat 
> Binary Conveniences.

They are not the same as binary conveniences, as they are derived from a voted 
on approved release. Thinking about (F) if they are not official releases could 
a podling:
a) Call them Apache releases? (Not doing may have a number of implications 
including naming of artefacts, package names and the like),
b) Place tham on a download page on their ASF provided website? If so what 
would be required to make it clear they are not approved releases?

We might want to check with branding and legal and get their input on this.

My concerns are that:
a) As IPMC votes are not required, less IPMC people (including mentors) look at 
the releases or are less thorough in doing so, and things slip through
b) This become a hard gate at the worse time i.e. graduation. What happens if a 
community proposed graduation and it found it’s releases have serious issue?

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Business decisions and risk (was: [DISCUSS] IPMC votes on releases)

Hi,

> Here's an idea... The IPMC focuses on supporting mentors to do their job 
> rather than forcing project developers and their mentors to jump through 
> arbitrarily defined hoops.

What "arbitrarily defined hoops” are you referring to? ASF policy or something 
else?

>  The IPMC doesn't need to enforce policy of any kind, except at the point of 
> graduation. 

That seems less than ideal to me, why would a IPMC volunteer want to do that 
job? And again IMO it introduces a hard gate that podlings are going to 
dislike, probably more so than they do now.

> When things change for individuals and they can no longer be good mentors 
> then the IPMC  needs to make it a priority to help find a new, truly 
> dedicated mentor. It's a problem that needs to be solved, but let's worry 
> about that when it's actually a problem rather than a hypothetical one.

It’s currently a problem, not a hypothetical, see for instance votes coming to 
this list without 3 mentors +1 votes, or the missing reports or missing 
sign-offs on the current incubator report to the board. This problem isn’t 
going unrecognised either, you’ll also note that recently nearly every month 
new mentors have been found and added to podlings that need them.

Thanks,
Justin



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Re: [VOTE] Recommend 'Apache Druid graduation to Top Level Project' resolution to the board

2019-08-13 Thread Sheng Wu

+1 Good luck

Sheng Wu 吴晟

Apache SkyWalking, Apache ShardingSphere(Incubating), Zipkin
Twitter, wusheng1108


William Guo  于2019年8月14日周三 上午7:38写道：

> +1
>
> Congratulations!!!
>
>
> Thanks,
> William
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 6:22 AM Ryan Blue 
> wrote:
>
> > +1
> >
> > Congratulations!
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:03 PM Myrle Krantz  wrote:
> >
> > > +1 binding  I'm looking forward to welcoming you to the fold! : o)
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Myrle
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 9:10 PM Suneel Marthi 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > +1 binding
> > > >
> > > > Congrats !!
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 3:06 PM Julian Feinauer <
> > > > j.feina...@pragmaticminds.de> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > +1 (binding)
> > > > >
> > > > > Congratulations!
> > > > >
> > > > > Julian
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >  Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
> > > > > Betreff: Re: [VOTE] Recommend 'Apache Druid graduation to Top Level
> > > > > Project' resolution to the board
> > > > > Von: Julian Hyde
> > > > > An: general@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > Cc:
> > > > >
> > > > > +1
> > > > >
> > > > > Good luck! It has been great mentoring you guys.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:40 AM Andrei Savu 
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > +1 (binding)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Congrats! Great to see such an active community.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -- Andrei Savu
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:03 AM Gian Merlino 
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Apache Druid community has recently discussed our readiness
> > for
> > > > > > > graduation [1] and voted on it affirmatively [2, 3]. We've also
> > > > > assessed
> > > > > > > ourselves against the maturity model [4] and collaborated on a
> > > > > resolution
> > > > > > > for graduation including PMC membership and PMC chair.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The community's achievements since entering the Incubator in
> > early
> > > > 2018
> > > > > > > include the following:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - Accepted 1240 patches from 142 contributors
> > > > > > > - Performed 5 releases with 4 different release managers
> > > > > > > - Invited 10 new committers
> > > > > > > - Some time later on, invited all 10 of those new committers to
> > > join
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > PMC (those that have accepted are named in the resolution
> below)
> > > > > > > - Migrated development to Apache's GitHub org:
> > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-druid
> > > > > > > - Migrated our web site to https://druid.apache.org/
> > > > > > > - Migrated developer conversations to the list at
> > > > d...@druid.apache.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now the Druid community is bringing the attached resolution up
> > for
> > > a
> > > > > formal
> > > > > > > IPMC VOTE.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please take a minute to vote on whether or not Apache Druid
> > should
> > > > > graduate
> > > > > > > to a Top Level Project by responding with one of the following:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [ ] +1 Apache Druid should graduate
> > > > > > > [ ]  0 No opinion
> > > > > > > [ ] -1 Apache Druid should not graduate because...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The VOTE is open for a minimum of 72 hours.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [1]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/68fcc3d2fc66c7f559e2c9dd02478d17f195565fecdb07ed53bc965e@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > > > > > > [2]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/10c615a7648db14a268759be91f4b1eff448960f5338e0d416c7373a@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > > > > > > [3]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/7517dd38fbeb28978b1188bed1d69e91445927d13d520a4c71ae9fcf@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > > > > > > [4]
> > https://gist.github.com/gianm/33ae4d61ebaa8b8714d9e2f51a11e7f7
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Establish Apache Druid Project
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > > > > > > interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> Foundation's
> > > > > > > purpose to establish a Project Management Committee charged
> with
> > > > > > > the creation and maintenance of open-source analytical database
> > > > > > > software, for distribution at no charge to the public.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > > > > > > Committee (PMC), to be known as the "The Apache Druid Project",
> > > > > > > be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> > > > > > > Foundation; and be it further
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > RESOLVED, that The Apache Druid Project be and hereby is
> > > > > > > responsible for the creation and maintenance of an analytical
> > > > > > > database software project; and be it further
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Druid" be and
> > > > > > > hereby is

Re: Business decisions and risk (was: [DISCUSS] IPMC votes on releases)

Hi,

> Hoops constructed by the IPMC. Like a secondary release vote on general@

This is because of ASF bylaws i.e only PMC votes are binding on releases. So 
you're saying implementations of ASF bylaws are "arbitrarily defined hoops”? 
There could be other ways of dealing with this bylaw that have been suggested, 
for example treating podling releases not as official Apache releases. But that 
also has implications and concerns, which I’m not seeing being addressed in 
this discussion.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Business decisions and risk (was: [DISCUSS] IPMC votes on releases)

Hi,

> They are gated day by day by day. Empirically, we already know the podlings
> dislike this.

Empirically? I would say it’s more anecdotally, (and the anonymous podling 
survey has actually never brought this up as an issue), and “day by day by day” 
is an exaggeration. Other than the occasional -1 on a release (which is not a 
veto) how else does the IPMC gate podlings other than at graduation? We could 
ask all of the current podlings in a more formal way and see what they do think 
which might be helpful? And/or as was also suggested try this out with a couple 
of podlings as an experiment and see what happens. Perhaps a first step is to 
ask for a podling/mentors to volunteer for this?

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: [IP CLEARANCE] Apache Beam ZetaSQL Translator

2019-08-13 Thread Kenneth Knowles

Yes, apologies. Copy/paste error. Thanks for catching & finding the right
link.

Kenn

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:57 PM Julian Hyde  wrote:

> Do you mean https://github.com/apache/beam/pull/9210 <
> https://github.com/apache/beam/pull/9210> ? 6561 is the Dataflow Runner.
>
> > On Aug 13, 2019, at 2:07 PM, Kenneth Knowles  wrote:
> >
> > Apache Beam has received a code donation of a ZetaSQL Translator
> >
> > The IP clearance document is at
> > http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/beam-zetasql-translator.html
> >
> > The pull request is https://github.com/apache/beam/pull/6561/
> >
> > Please review in the next 72 hours, then IP clearance will proceed by
> lazy
> > consensus.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Kenn
>
>

Re: Business decisions and risk (was: [DISCUSS] IPMC votes on releases)

Hi,

As an aside for any project looking for mentors you can see what projects they 
mentor at teh bottom of this page:
https://incubator.apache.org/clutch/

And you can also check if they have been signing off reports here (if you are 
an ASF member or IPMC member):
https://whimsy.apache.org/incubator/signoff.cgi

Thanks,
Justin


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Re: Mentor signoff on podling reports (due August 13)

Hi,

The report will be submitted soon and we’re still missing sign-off from any of 
the mentors for Livy. Mentors if you’re reading this please sign-off the 
report. 

A number of podlings only have one sign-off, the board likes to see more than 
one mentor sign-off on reports.

Currently only one podling, Training, has sign-off from all it’s mentors.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Druid (incubating) 0.15.1 [RC2]

2019-08-13 Thread William Guo

+1

I checked:

- Can compile from source
- No unexpected binary files
- Source files have ASF headers
- incubating in name
- signatures and hashes fine
- LICENSE is fine


Thanks,
William

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 6:59 AM Furkan KAMACI 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> +1 from me.
>
> I checked:
> - Incubating in name
> - Disclaimer exists
> - LICENSE is fine
> - No unexpected binary files
> - Code compiles and tests successfully run
>
> Kind Regards,
> Furkan KAMACI
>
> 13 Ağu 2019 Sal, saat 13:04 tarihinde Justin Mclean <
> jus...@classsoftware.com> şunu yazdı:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > > I was not directly involved in this, but it is my understanding that
> the
> > > modifications to our source NOTICE file between 0.15.0-incubating and
> > this
> > > version are a result of this thread on the IPMC vote,
> > >
> >
> https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201906.mbox/%3CCAOGo0VZoqnNuMdBsbiPB1gzqdR_WAp8wyBx7jeANaKKkm6pavQ%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> > .
> > > which suggested that the NOTICE files should contain only what is
> > strictly
> > > required for the files actually contained in the bundle to which they
> > > apply.
> >
> > Given you have soured files from all those project the minimum would be
> > the project name and copyright line, I’m not seeing that. [1]
> >
> > > With regards to the 'lorem ipsum' text, I am unsure of how this is
> > licensed
> > > and somewhat surprised how hard this seems to be to find out
> >
> > I believe it’s either public domain or the copyright has expired
> deepening
> > on teh versions you use but it’s not easy to find out. It not an issue,
> > just a curiosity.
> >
> > >  I believe the wikiticker-2015-09-12-sampled.json.gz data was collected
> > by Gian Merlino
> > > from an IRC channel where a bot prints out all wikipedia edit activity
> in
> > > real-ish time. I don't know and haven't yet found out the ownership
> > details
> > > of the contents of that IRC channel, I will try to follow-up and
> resolve
> > > this as soon as I figure out how to do so.
> >
> > My guess is that you would need permission from the people who content is
> > in that file, that’s probably going to be hard to obtain, so it may be
> best
> > to replace it with something else if possible.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Justin
> >
> > 1. http://www.apache.org/dev/licensing-howto.html#bundle-asf-product
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>

Re: Business decisions and risk (was: [DISCUSS] IPMC votes on releases)

2019-08-13 Thread Greg Stein

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 8:17 PM Justin Mclean 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > Hoops constructed by the IPMC. Like a secondary release vote on general@
>
> This is because of ASF bylaws i.e only PMC votes are binding on releases.

That is not in the Bylaws. Stop making stuff up.

> So you're saying implementations of ASF bylaws are "arbitrarily defined
> hoops”?

See above.

> There could be other ways of dealing with this bylaw that have been
> suggested,

What bylaw? Got a reference?

> for example treating podling releases not as official Apache releases.

That is the origin of this thread, because you only ever pose
hypotheticals. You only pose "could" possibilities. But you *never* move
things to conclusion. So this thread is an attempt to do so.

Your "could" emails on this thread is antithetical to its origin.

> But that also has implications and concerns, which I’m not seeing being
> addressed in this discussion.
>

Then help drive it, rather than take a back seat. Drive a decision.

Q: Does the IPMC want to produce non-ASF releases?

-g

Re: [VOTE] Recommend 'Apache Druid graduation to Top Level Project' resolution to the board

2019-08-13 Thread William Guo

+1

Congratulations!!!


Thanks,
William

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 6:22 AM Ryan Blue  wrote:

> +1
>
> Congratulations!
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:03 PM Myrle Krantz  wrote:
>
> > +1 binding  I'm looking forward to welcoming you to the fold! : o)
> >
> > Best,
> > Myrle
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 9:10 PM Suneel Marthi 
> wrote:
> >
> > > +1 binding
> > >
> > > Congrats !!
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 3:06 PM Julian Feinauer <
> > > j.feina...@pragmaticminds.de> wrote:
> > >
> > > > +1 (binding)
> > > >
> > > > Congratulations!
> > > >
> > > > Julian
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
> > > > Betreff: Re: [VOTE] Recommend 'Apache Druid graduation to Top Level
> > > > Project' resolution to the board
> > > > Von: Julian Hyde
> > > > An: general@incubator.apache.org
> > > > Cc:
> > > >
> > > > +1
> > > >
> > > > Good luck! It has been great mentoring you guys.
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:40 AM Andrei Savu 
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > +1 (binding)
> > > > >
> > > > > Congrats! Great to see such an active community.
> > > > >
> > > > > -- Andrei Savu
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:03 AM Gian Merlino 
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > The Apache Druid community has recently discussed our readiness
> for
> > > > > > graduation [1] and voted on it affirmatively [2, 3]. We've also
> > > > assessed
> > > > > > ourselves against the maturity model [4] and collaborated on a
> > > > resolution
> > > > > > for graduation including PMC membership and PMC chair.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The community's achievements since entering the Incubator in
> early
> > > 2018
> > > > > > include the following:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - Accepted 1240 patches from 142 contributors
> > > > > > - Performed 5 releases with 4 different release managers
> > > > > > - Invited 10 new committers
> > > > > > - Some time later on, invited all 10 of those new committers to
> > join
> > > > the
> > > > > > PMC (those that have accepted are named in the resolution below)
> > > > > > - Migrated development to Apache's GitHub org:
> > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-druid
> > > > > > - Migrated our web site to https://druid.apache.org/
> > > > > > - Migrated developer conversations to the list at
> > > d...@druid.apache.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now the Druid community is bringing the attached resolution up
> for
> > a
> > > > formal
> > > > > > IPMC VOTE.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please take a minute to vote on whether or not Apache Druid
> should
> > > > graduate
> > > > > > to a Top Level Project by responding with one of the following:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [ ] +1 Apache Druid should graduate
> > > > > > [ ]  0 No opinion
> > > > > > [ ] -1 Apache Druid should not graduate because...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The VOTE is open for a minimum of 72 hours.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/68fcc3d2fc66c7f559e2c9dd02478d17f195565fecdb07ed53bc965e@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > > > > > [2]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/10c615a7648db14a268759be91f4b1eff448960f5338e0d416c7373a@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > > > > > [3]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/7517dd38fbeb28978b1188bed1d69e91445927d13d520a4c71ae9fcf@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > > > > > [4]
> https://gist.github.com/gianm/33ae4d61ebaa8b8714d9e2f51a11e7f7
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Establish Apache Druid Project
> > > > > >
> > > > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > > > > > interests of the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's
> > > > > > purpose to establish a Project Management Committee charged with
> > > > > > the creation and maintenance of open-source analytical database
> > > > > > software, for distribution at no charge to the public.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > > > > > Committee (PMC), to be known as the "The Apache Druid Project",
> > > > > > be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> > > > > > Foundation; and be it further
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RESOLVED, that The Apache Druid Project be and hereby is
> > > > > > responsible for the creation and maintenance of an analytical
> > > > > > database software project; and be it further
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Druid" be and
> > > > > > hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at the
> > > > > > direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of The Apache
> > > > > > Druid Project, and to have primary responsibility for
> > > > > > management of the projects within the scope of responsibility of
> > > > > > The Apache Druid Project; and be it further
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> > > > > > hereby are appointed to serve

Re: Business decisions and risk (was: [DISCUSS] IPMC votes on releases)

2019-08-13 Thread David Jencks

What’s a “vanity mentor“? How do I recognize one before a podling has a 
significant history? Who is currently accepting these vanity mentors and how 
would they stop doing so?

Hindsight is 20-20... I have no crystal ball.

David Jencks 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 13, 2019, at 5:10 PM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> Here's an idea... The IPMC focuses on supporting mentors to do their job 
>> rather than forcing project developers and their mentors to jump through 
>> arbitrarily defined hoops.
> 
> What "arbitrarily defined hoops” are you referring to? ASF policy or 
> something else?
> 
>> The IPMC doesn't need to enforce policy of any kind, except at the point of 
>> graduation. 
> 
> That seems less than ideal to me, why would a IPMC volunteer want to do that 
> job? And again IMO it introduces a hard gate that podlings are going to 
> dislike, probably more so than they do now.
> 
>> When things change for individuals and they can no longer be good mentors 
>> then the IPMC  needs to make it a priority to help find a new, truly 
>> dedicated mentor. It's a problem that needs to be solved, but let's worry 
>> about that when it's actually a problem rather than a hypothetical one.
> 
> It’s currently a problem, not a hypothetical, see for instance votes coming 
> to this list without 3 mentors +1 votes, or the missing reports or missing 
> sign-offs on the current incubator report to the board. This problem isn’t 
> going unrecognised either, you’ll also note that recently nearly every month 
> new mentors have been found and added to podlings that need them.
> 
> Thanks,
> Justin
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking




Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 13, 2019, at 2:39 AM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> HI,
> 
> I think there's a couple of misconceptions in this thread. First off 
> currently you can join the IPMC two ways by being an ASF member and asking to 
> join, the other by being voted in. On average the people being voted in tend 
> to not go missing, review releases and sign off board reports more frequently.
> 
> This has come up on list the list before and some (ex)board members have 
> suggested that the IPMC shouldn’t;t allow people to be added this way.
> 
> The suggestion here isn’t to be exclusionary, in fact we now allow people who 
> have experience in incubator to ask if they can join, as it often hard for 
> the IPMC to recognise merit, but they still need to be voted in. [1] When a 
> project graduates I go though the PMC list and see if there are any likely 
> IPMC candidates and contact them to see if they are interested, you’ll notice 
> that more people have been voted in in recent times. In another thread I’ve 
> gone one step further and suggested that mentors look out for people on their 
> projects list who are release managers and vote on releases and suggest they 
> be voted in as IPMC members. [2] (Option D). I agree the bar should be low.
> 
> I do find it strange that we would allow people from a privileged group to 
> auto join, when they possibly may not have shown merit and/or have not being 
> involved in the incubator or an incubating project before. Obviously this 
> doesn’t apply to all ASF members that ask join the incubator, but I can point 
> to examples where this has given rise to serious issues. We’ve even had the 
> occasional mentor who has never sent an email to their podlings list, never 
> voted on a release and never signed off a board report.

This is a different problem. I’ve seen nonmember mentors who were voted in who 
never really do anything. Let’s face it life intrudes in one way or another. 
One hopes that such mentors will resign, but they usually fade away.

Let’s focus on service to podlings and try to replace mentors who for whatever 
reason cannot help.

Following through with your proposal creates an IPMC that is not fully trusting 
the Membership. The membership of The ASF is the Foundation. These people have 
attained merit.

> 
> I don’t mind if their's not consensus on this and letting this stay. There 
> may be better ways to make sure mentors who sign up do their job and make 
> mentors are more engaged. Please post your suggestions to this list for 
> discussion.

I reject the use of the verb “make” for this problem. We should “help” mentors 
and podling communities “be” more engaged. We should “help” podlings and 
mentors when Incubation is not working.

Mentoring is voluntary. So is Membership.

We need to have strong Champions who know how to bring willing and able 
podlings and mentors into the Incubator.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Thanks,
> Justin
> 
> 1. 
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9ee3860bc9066ba682484542d34976ab21d9b62106f26a96f19d997f@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> 2.https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/8c6e12bb040856dddb5d9b7b4821739e441455f3c61c6e469eb98f81@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> -
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> 


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Re: [VOTE] Recommend 'Apache Druid graduation to Top Level Project' resolution to the board

2019-08-13 Thread Ted Dunning

+1



On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 8:17 AM Dave Fisher  wrote:

> +1 (binding)
>
> Regarding: QU30: See https://www.apache.org/security/ and
> https://www.apache.org/security/committers.html
>
> https://druid.apache.org/druid-powered is impressive.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
>
> > On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:03 AM, Gian Merlino  wrote:
> >
> > The Apache Druid community has recently discussed our readiness for
> > graduation [1] and voted on it affirmatively [2, 3]. We've also assessed
> > ourselves against the maturity model [4] and collaborated on a resolution
> > for graduation including PMC membership and PMC chair.
> >
> > The community's achievements since entering the Incubator in early 2018
> > include the following:
> >
> > - Accepted 1240 patches from 142 contributors
> > - Performed 5 releases with 4 different release managers
> > - Invited 10 new committers
> > - Some time later on, invited all 10 of those new committers to join the
> > PMC (those that have accepted are named in the resolution below)
> > - Migrated development to Apache's GitHub org:
> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-druid
> > - Migrated our web site to https://druid.apache.org/
> > - Migrated developer conversations to the list at d...@druid.apache.org
> >
> > Now the Druid community is bringing the attached resolution up for a
> formal
> > IPMC VOTE.
> >
> > Please take a minute to vote on whether or not Apache Druid should
> graduate
> > to a Top Level Project by responding with one of the following:
> >
> > [ ] +1 Apache Druid should graduate
> > [ ]  0 No opinion
> > [ ] -1 Apache Druid should not graduate because...
> >
> > The VOTE is open for a minimum of 72 hours.
> >
> > [1]
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/68fcc3d2fc66c7f559e2c9dd02478d17f195565fecdb07ed53bc965e@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > [2]
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/10c615a7648db14a268759be91f4b1eff448960f5338e0d416c7373a@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > [3]
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/7517dd38fbeb28978b1188bed1d69e91445927d13d520a4c71ae9fcf@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > [4] https://gist.github.com/gianm/33ae4d61ebaa8b8714d9e2f51a11e7f7
> >
> > --
> >
> > Establish Apache Druid Project
> >
> > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > interests of the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's
> > purpose to establish a Project Management Committee charged with
> > the creation and maintenance of open-source analytical database
> > software, for distribution at no charge to the public.
> >
> > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > Committee (PMC), to be known as the "The Apache Druid Project",
> > be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> > Foundation; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that The Apache Druid Project be and hereby is
> > responsible for the creation and maintenance of an analytical
> > database software project; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Druid" be and
> > hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at the
> > direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of The Apache
> > Druid Project, and to have primary responsibility for
> > management of the projects within the scope of responsibility of
> > The Apache Druid Project; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> > hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of The
> > Apache Druid Project:
> >
> >  * Benedict Jin (asdf2...@apache.org)
> >  * Charles Allen(cral...@apache.org)
> >  * Clint Wylie  (cwy...@apache.org)
> >  * David Lim(david...@apache.org)
> >  * Dylan Wylie  (dylanwy...@apache.org)
> >  * Eric Tschetter   (ched...@apache.org)
> >  * Fangjin Yang (f...@apache.org)
> >  * Gian Merlino (g...@apache.org)
> >  * Himanshu Gupta   (himans...@apache.org)
> >  * Jihoon Son   (jihoon...@apache.org)
> >  * Jonathan Wei (jon...@apache.org)
> >  * Julian Hyde  (jh...@apache.org)
> >  * Kurt Young   (k...@apache.org)
> >  * Lijin Bin(binli...@apache.org)
> >  * Maxime Beauchemin(maximebeauche...@apache.org)
> >  * Niketh Sabbineni (nik...@apache.org)
> >  * Nishant Bangarwa (nish...@apache.org)
> >  * P. Taylor Goetz  (ptgo...@apache.org)
> >  * Parag Jain   (pja...@apache.org)
> >  * Roman Leventov   (leven...@apache.org)
> >  * Slim Bouguerra   (bs...@apache.org)
> >  * Surekha Saharan  (sure...@apache.org)
> >  * Xavier Léauté(x...@apache.org)
> >
> > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Gian Merlino
> > be and hereby is appointed to the office of Vice President,
> > Druid, to serve in accordance with and subject to the direction
> > of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
> > death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification, or
> > until a successor is appointed; and be it

Re: Business decisions and risk (was: [DISCUSS] IPMC votes on releases)

2019-08-13 Thread Ted Dunning

Dave,

I understand the problem with long delays. What I don't understand is how
the proposal changes any of that.

90% of project release still require additional votes. How will that change?

Every other change is peripheral.



On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 8:37 AM Dave Fisher  wrote:

>
>
> > On Aug 12, 2019, at 1:34 PM, Ted Dunning  wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 11:10 AM Dave Fisher  w...@apache.org>> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Aug 12, 2019, at 10:02 AM, Ted Dunning 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 9:24 AM Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> >>>
> 
> 
> > On Aug 12, 2019, at 10:44 AM, Ted Dunning 
> >> wrote:
>  ...
> >> "The Apache Podling Foo has voted on releasing Foo 1.2.2 (url and
> >> pointers here). We have 3 (or more) binding votes from mentors. We
> are
> >> giving the IPMC and additional 72 hours to vote on said release."
> >>
> >
> >
> > This is good in theory, but as Justin has pointed out, 90% of podling
> > releases don't have enough mentor votes to follow this path.
> >
> > The 10% that do have enough votes can easily follow this process.
> 
>  Then the ones that don't have enough mentors still require the 3 +1
>  binding votes. The idea is that if the podling already has it, then
> the
>  IPMC "vote" is more procedural than anything else. If they don't, then
>  either the mentors need to step up or the IPMC fills in the gap.
> 
>  The goal is to avoid having the Incubator be a gate-keeper.
> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I don't understand how this is all that different from what we have
> now.
> >> If
> >>> three mentors (and thus IPMC members) vote yes, then opening up the
> vote
> >> to
> >>> include the IPMC is just like what you said, "we have three votes
> already
> >>> and unless somebody points out something heinous, this is going to be a
> >>> release". Whether the IPMC is a gatekeeper or a rubber stamp in these
> >> cases
> >>> is a tiny matter of nomenclature because the effect is typically a
> rubber
> >>> stamp (although some of these releases are examined carefully and
> things
> >>> turn up).
> >>>
> >>> In the large majority of cases, the Incubator is definitely not a
> >>> gatekeeper. If anything, the non-mentor IPMC votes are enablers that
> >> allow
> >>> a release to go forward when it would otherwise fail.
> >>
> >> A week or two (an uncertain time) to do release votes as opposed to what
> >> may already be a significant increase to a minimum 3 days will FEEL
> like a
> >> closed GATE. (For example Zipkin really felt gated.)
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > Dave,
> >
> > I don't understand your point.
>
> My point is that what you describe below are the ideal results. We all
> know that while the podling itself can do release votes in 72 hours it
> often takes the IPMC much more than 72 hours to vote. It used to be weeks
> and has improved significantly to where most podlings can be done inside of
> one week.
>
> The timing and uncertainty of this is too much for some previously
> established communities. For instance I think that this indeterminate lag
> is one of the causes that made Zipkin a poor fit here.
>
> We've relaxed DISCLAIMERs. Should we wait to see if this improves the
> situation, or should we do another small step and essentially follow
> Myrle’s Review plan[1] for all general@ votes?
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> [1]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/495ed84b43c1ba2662075a6c8c869bcd337b6bf4bc1895149c1483de@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
>
> >
> > Currently, a podling does a vote. If they (it does happen, but rarely)
> get
> > 3 mentor votes, then they can immediately call for comments / votes on
> the
> > IPMC list. If nothing bad turns up, they are done.
> >
> > If something really bad gets found at that point, it isn't the fault of
> the
> > process. It is the nature of release votes with different people looking
> at
> > different things. Further, a release wouldn't necessarily be blocked at
> > that point, but if the problem really is bad, then it is good practice
> for
> > all +1 votes to switch to -1 so the vote fails and a new candidate can be
> > rolled.
> >
> > The proposal Jim made said that there would be 72 additional hours to
> > review after the vote passes the podling vote. It may be that there is a
> > suggestion that this additional 72 hours could start immediately upon
> > getting three mentor votes but this is very much a corner case since it
> > would be a fraction of the 10% of the time that three mentors actually do
> > vote. If the three mentors take a day or two to vote, then the only
> > difference in the 10% case is a day or so acceleration.
> >
> > This just doesn't sound like it helps all that much. It changes 3 days +
> 3
> > days into 3 days + 3 days 90% of the time and has some potential to
> change
> > it into 3 days + 1-2 days less than 10% of the time.
> >
> > That is my point. Either I completely misunderstand what is being
> proposed
> >

Re: Business decisions and risk (was: [DISCUSS] IPMC votes on releases)

Hi Ted,

This subthread as named by Greg is really about this:

> On Aug 11, 2019, at 5:56 PM, Greg Stein  wrote:
> 
> See further below for an unfortunately trimmed thread. A couple paragraphs
> that I wrote early-thread are important to add:
> 
> 
> Option (F): stop calling them official ASF releases, which means PMC votes
> are not required.
> ——

I am for option (F) with the addition of Myrle’s [REVIEW] until such time as 
the podling is fully compliant with Apache Release Policy and goes through the 
usual process. Abiding by the Apache Release Policy would remain a Graduation 
Requirement.

So, we treat these releases as not fully approved the same way we treat Binary 
Conveniences.

I think that this pattern grows the PPMC into a true PMC better by expecting 
that licensing issues which require vigilance become part of the Project’s DNA 
in a more organic way.

Regards,
Dave

> On Aug 13, 2019, at 9:09 AM, Ted Dunning  wrote:
> 
> Dave,
> 
> I understand the problem with long delays. What I don't understand is how
> the proposal changes any of that.
> 
> 90% of project release still require additional votes. How will that change?
> 
> Every other change is peripheral.
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 8:37 AM Dave Fisher  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 12, 2019, at 1:34 PM, Ted Dunning  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 11:10 AM Dave Fisher > w...@apache.org>> wrote:
>>> 
 
 
> On Aug 12, 2019, at 10:02 AM, Ted Dunning 
>> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 9:24 AM Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 12, 2019, at 10:44 AM, Ted Dunning 
 wrote:
>> ...
 "The Apache Podling Foo has voted on releasing Foo 1.2.2 (url and
 pointers here). We have 3 (or more) binding votes from mentors. We
>> are
 giving the IPMC and additional 72 hours to vote on said release."
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This is good in theory, but as Justin has pointed out, 90% of podling
>>> releases don't have enough mentor votes to follow this path.
>>> 
>>> The 10% that do have enough votes can easily follow this process.
>> 
>> Then the ones that don't have enough mentors still require the 3 +1
>> binding votes. The idea is that if the podling already has it, then
>> the
>> IPMC "vote" is more procedural than anything else. If they don't, then
>> either the mentors need to step up or the IPMC fills in the gap.
>> 
>> The goal is to avoid having the Incubator be a gate-keeper.
>> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand how this is all that different from what we have
>> now.
 If
> three mentors (and thus IPMC members) vote yes, then opening up the
>> vote
 to
> include the IPMC is just like what you said, "we have three votes
>> already
> and unless somebody points out something heinous, this is going to be a
> release". Whether the IPMC is a gatekeeper or a rubber stamp in these
 cases
> is a tiny matter of nomenclature because the effect is typically a
>> rubber
> stamp (although some of these releases are examined carefully and
>> things
> turn up).
> 
> In the large majority of cases, the Incubator is definitely not a
> gatekeeper. If anything, the non-mentor IPMC votes are enablers that
 allow
> a release to go forward when it would otherwise fail.
 
 A week or two (an uncertain time) to do release votes as opposed to what
 may already be a significant increase to a minimum 3 days will FEEL
>> like a
 closed GATE. (For example Zipkin really felt gated.)
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dave,
>>> 
>>> I don't understand your point.
>> 
>> My point is that what you describe below are the ideal results. We all
>> know that while the podling itself can do release votes in 72 hours it
>> often takes the IPMC much more than 72 hours to vote. It used to be weeks
>> and has improved significantly to where most podlings can be done inside of
>> one week.
>> 
>> The timing and uncertainty of this is too much for some previously
>> established communities. For instance I think that this indeterminate lag
>> is one of the causes that made Zipkin a poor fit here.
>> 
>> We've relaxed DISCLAIMERs. Should we wait to see if this improves the
>> situation, or should we do another small step and essentially follow
>> Myrle’s Review plan[1] for all general@ votes?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> [1]
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/495ed84b43c1ba2662075a6c8c869bcd337b6bf4bc1895149c1483de@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
>> 
>>> 
>>> Currently, a podling does a vote. If they (it does happen, but rarely)
>> get
>>> 3 mentor votes, then they can immediately call for comments / votes on
>> the
>>> IPMC list. If nothing bad turns up, they are done.
>>> 
>>> If something really bad gets found at that point, it isn't the fault of
>> the
>>> process. It is the nature of release votes with different people looking
>> at
>>> different things.

Re: [VOTE] Recommend 'Apache Druid graduation to Top Level Project' resolution to the board

2019-08-13 Thread Julian Hyde

+1

Good luck! It has been great mentoring you guys.

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:40 AM Andrei Savu  wrote:
>
> +1 (binding)
>
> Congrats! Great to see such an active community.
>
> -- Andrei Savu
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:03 AM Gian Merlino  wrote:
>
> > The Apache Druid community has recently discussed our readiness for
> > graduation [1] and voted on it affirmatively [2, 3]. We've also assessed
> > ourselves against the maturity model [4] and collaborated on a resolution
> > for graduation including PMC membership and PMC chair.
> >
> > The community's achievements since entering the Incubator in early 2018
> > include the following:
> >
> > - Accepted 1240 patches from 142 contributors
> > - Performed 5 releases with 4 different release managers
> > - Invited 10 new committers
> > - Some time later on, invited all 10 of those new committers to join the
> > PMC (those that have accepted are named in the resolution below)
> > - Migrated development to Apache's GitHub org:
> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-druid
> > - Migrated our web site to https://druid.apache.org/
> > - Migrated developer conversations to the list at d...@druid.apache.org
> >
> > Now the Druid community is bringing the attached resolution up for a formal
> > IPMC VOTE.
> >
> > Please take a minute to vote on whether or not Apache Druid should graduate
> > to a Top Level Project by responding with one of the following:
> >
> > [ ] +1 Apache Druid should graduate
> > [ ]  0 No opinion
> > [ ] -1 Apache Druid should not graduate because...
> >
> > The VOTE is open for a minimum of 72 hours.
> >
> > [1]
> >
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/68fcc3d2fc66c7f559e2c9dd02478d17f195565fecdb07ed53bc965e@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > [2]
> >
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/10c615a7648db14a268759be91f4b1eff448960f5338e0d416c7373a@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > [3]
> >
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/7517dd38fbeb28978b1188bed1d69e91445927d13d520a4c71ae9fcf@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
> > [4] https://gist.github.com/gianm/33ae4d61ebaa8b8714d9e2f51a11e7f7
> >
> > --
> >
> > Establish Apache Druid Project
> >
> > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > interests of the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's
> > purpose to establish a Project Management Committee charged with
> > the creation and maintenance of open-source analytical database
> > software, for distribution at no charge to the public.
> >
> > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > Committee (PMC), to be known as the "The Apache Druid Project",
> > be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> > Foundation; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that The Apache Druid Project be and hereby is
> > responsible for the creation and maintenance of an analytical
> > database software project; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Druid" be and
> > hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at the
> > direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of The Apache
> > Druid Project, and to have primary responsibility for
> > management of the projects within the scope of responsibility of
> > The Apache Druid Project; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> > hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of The
> > Apache Druid Project:
> >
> >   * Benedict Jin (asdf2...@apache.org)
> >   * Charles Allen(cral...@apache.org)
> >   * Clint Wylie  (cwy...@apache.org)
> >   * David Lim(david...@apache.org)
> >   * Dylan Wylie  (dylanwy...@apache.org)
> >   * Eric Tschetter   (ched...@apache.org)
> >   * Fangjin Yang (f...@apache.org)
> >   * Gian Merlino (g...@apache.org)
> >   * Himanshu Gupta   (himans...@apache.org)
> >   * Jihoon Son   (jihoon...@apache.org)
> >   * Jonathan Wei (jon...@apache.org)
> >   * Julian Hyde  (jh...@apache.org)
> >   * Kurt Young   (k...@apache.org)
> >   * Lijin Bin(binli...@apache.org)
> >   * Maxime Beauchemin(maximebeauche...@apache.org)
> >   * Niketh Sabbineni (nik...@apache.org)
> >   * Nishant Bangarwa (nish...@apache.org)
> >   * P. Taylor Goetz  (ptgo...@apache.org)
> >   * Parag Jain   (pja...@apache.org)
> >   * Roman Leventov   (leven...@apache.org)
> >   * Slim Bouguerra   (bs...@apache.org)
> >   * Surekha Saharan  (sure...@apache.org)
> >   * Xavier Léauté(x...@apache.org)
> >
> > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Gian Merlino
> > be and hereby is appointed to the office of Vice President,
> > Druid, to serve in accordance with and subject to the direction
> > of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
> > death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification, or
> > until a successor is appointed; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the initial

Re: Business decisions and risk (was: [DISCUSS] IPMC votes on releases)




Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 13, 2019, at 9:32 PM, Greg Stein  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 8:17 PM Justin Mclean 
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>>> Hoops constructed by the IPMC. Like a secondary release vote on general@
>> 
>> This is because of ASF bylaws i.e only PMC votes are binding on releases.
> 
> 
> That is not in the Bylaws. Stop making stuff up.
> 
> 
>> So you're saying implementations of ASF bylaws are "arbitrarily defined
>> hoops”?
> 
> 
> See above.
> 
> 
>> There could be other ways of dealing with this bylaw that have been
>> suggested,
> 
> 
> What bylaw? Got a reference?
> 
> 
>> for example treating podling releases not as official Apache releases.
> 
> 
> That is the origin of this thread, because you only ever pose
> hypotheticals. You only pose "could" possibilities. But you *never* move
> things to conclusion. So this thread is an attempt to do so.
> 
> Your "could" emails on this thread is antithetical to its origin.
> 
> 
>> But that also has implications and concerns, which I’m not seeing being
>> addressed in this discussion.
>> 
> 
> Then help drive it, rather than take a back seat. Drive a decision.
> 
> Q: Does the IPMC want to produce non-ASF releases?
> 
> -g


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Re: Business decisions and risk (was: [DISCUSS] IPMC votes on releases)

Hi,

> Q: Does the IPMC want to produce non-ASF releases?

A: We already are, but there are some constraints around what to calling them, 
branding and when they can be placed. (And these are not IPMC policies.)

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Business decisions and risk (was: [DISCUSS] IPMC votes on releases)

>> 
>> Q: Does the IPMC want to produce non-ASF releases?

My answer is yes! I want podlings to be on a path towards graduation! I 
recognize multiple requirements. The path may differ for each podling. I’m the 
end there are two outcomes!

Thanks Greg!

Regards,
Dave

>> 
>> -g
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> 


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Re: Business decisions and risk (was: [DISCUSS] IPMC votes on releases)

Hi,

>> This is because of ASF bylaws i.e only PMC votes are binding on releases.
> 
> That is not in the Bylaws. Stop making stuff up.

That the way it’s been explained to me, several times, by experienced ASF 
people, that only PMC votes are binding on releases and podlings are not 
mentioned in the ASF bylaws. Bylaw wise see section 6.3.  But you're right, it 
would be more precise to say, it's a combination of 6.3 of the bylaws of the 
ASF and the ASF's policy on voting on releases. [1]

> That is the origin of this thread, because you only ever pose
> hypotheticals. You only pose "could" possibilities. But you *never* move
> things to conclusion.

I’ve done far more than just propose possibilities. If that is not evident on 
this list I suggest you read the last dozen incubator board reports for 
evidence. Is it just that’s the conclusion is not what you want or is it that 
it moving slower than you would like? Consensus in the IPMC is sometimes hard 
to reach, but don’t you think is worth trying to do that and engage in 
dialogue, rather than talking what seems on face value to me a rather combative 
position?

Thanks,
Justin

1. https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html#ReleaseVotes


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Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking

2019-08-13 Thread Christofer Dutz

I agree,

I think that the "requirement" (Never really knew there was such a requirement) 
of being a Member sort of gives you the easy entry path as if you are a member 
people expect you to understand the Apache Way.

However that doesn't mean that people not being a member don't get the Apache 
Way and hereby should be excluded. 

Chris

PS: Sorry for being silent for quite some time ... was 100% swamped with 
TAC and ACEU preparations ...

Am 13.08.19, 08:29 schrieb "Julian Feinauer" :

Hi,

I'm a new IPMC Member (no foundation member) and come from a PLC4X which 
has graduated months ago.
I already started to help other Podlings a bit.

And I agree with Dave in the sense that we should seek our way not in 
locking-out people but in finding ways to draw in more people.
It was already said multiple times that people from "mature" podlings or 
freshly graduated projects would be a good call as mentors this should be ONE 
way to go.

Julian

Am 13.08.19, 01:42 schrieb "Dave Fisher" :

> On Aug 12, 2019, at 4:29 PM, Greg Stein  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 5:26 PM Justin Mclean 

> wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>>> I will also note that if the IPMC switches to *voting* Members into 
the
>>> IPMC, that the Apache Member will be observing that vote take place 
on
>>> private@ through a subscription (they can reply!) or via the 
archives. …
>> 
>> Which is also the same for any project who votes in a ASF member as a
>> committer or PMC member.
>> 
> 
> I would counter that any project which creates such a bar for ASF 
Members
> may be doing it Wrong :)
> 
> (this goes into my general feeling that projects generally need to 
lower
> their bars, and become more inclusive)

I really think that we have long precedent to do most of what we need 
to do already in place.

I’m -1 on this proposal. I think it is a bad idea. It is so bad that I 
would seriously think about volunteering here less.

Just think about how many VOTEs we would need to do when a Podling 
comes in. Think about all the pro forma votes and discussions about people. 
BORING!

Frankly, I’m quite surprised that this is even being proposed.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Cheers,
> -g

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[VOTE] Recommend 'Apache Druid graduation to Top Level Project' resolution to the board

2019-08-13 Thread Gian Merlino

The Apache Druid community has recently discussed our readiness for
graduation [1] and voted on it affirmatively [2, 3]. We've also assessed
ourselves against the maturity model [4] and collaborated on a resolution
for graduation including PMC membership and PMC chair.

The community's achievements since entering the Incubator in early 2018
include the following:

- Accepted 1240 patches from 142 contributors
- Performed 5 releases with 4 different release managers
- Invited 10 new committers
- Some time later on, invited all 10 of those new committers to join the
PMC (those that have accepted are named in the resolution below)
- Migrated development to Apache's GitHub org:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-druid
- Migrated our web site to https://druid.apache.org/
- Migrated developer conversations to the list at d...@druid.apache.org

Now the Druid community is bringing the attached resolution up for a formal
IPMC VOTE.

Please take a minute to vote on whether or not Apache Druid should graduate
to a Top Level Project by responding with one of the following:

[ ] +1 Apache Druid should graduate
[ ]  0 No opinion
[ ] -1 Apache Druid should not graduate because...

The VOTE is open for a minimum of 72 hours.

[1]
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/68fcc3d2fc66c7f559e2c9dd02478d17f195565fecdb07ed53bc965e@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
[2]
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/10c615a7648db14a268759be91f4b1eff448960f5338e0d416c7373a@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
[3]
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/7517dd38fbeb28978b1188bed1d69e91445927d13d520a4c71ae9fcf@%3Cdev.druid.apache.org%3E
[4] https://gist.github.com/gianm/33ae4d61ebaa8b8714d9e2f51a11e7f7

--

Establish Apache Druid Project

WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
interests of the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's
purpose to establish a Project Management Committee charged with
the creation and maintenance of open-source analytical database
software, for distribution at no charge to the public.

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
Committee (PMC), to be known as the "The Apache Druid Project",
be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
Foundation; and be it further

RESOLVED, that The Apache Druid Project be and hereby is
responsible for the creation and maintenance of an analytical
database software project; and be it further

RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Druid" be and
hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at the
direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of The Apache
Druid Project, and to have primary responsibility for
management of the projects within the scope of responsibility of
The Apache Druid Project; and be it further

RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of The
Apache Druid Project:

  * Benedict Jin (asdf2...@apache.org)
  * Charles Allen(cral...@apache.org)
  * Clint Wylie  (cwy...@apache.org)
  * David Lim(david...@apache.org)
  * Dylan Wylie  (dylanwy...@apache.org)
  * Eric Tschetter   (ched...@apache.org)
  * Fangjin Yang (f...@apache.org)
  * Gian Merlino (g...@apache.org)
  * Himanshu Gupta   (himans...@apache.org)
  * Jihoon Son   (jihoon...@apache.org)
  * Jonathan Wei (jon...@apache.org)
  * Julian Hyde  (jh...@apache.org)
  * Kurt Young   (k...@apache.org)
  * Lijin Bin(binli...@apache.org)
  * Maxime Beauchemin(maximebeauche...@apache.org)
  * Niketh Sabbineni (nik...@apache.org)
  * Nishant Bangarwa (nish...@apache.org)
  * P. Taylor Goetz  (ptgo...@apache.org)
  * Parag Jain   (pja...@apache.org)
  * Roman Leventov   (leven...@apache.org)
  * Slim Bouguerra   (bs...@apache.org)
  * Surekha Saharan  (sure...@apache.org)
  * Xavier Léauté(x...@apache.org)

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Gian Merlino
be and hereby is appointed to the office of Vice President,
Druid, to serve in accordance with and subject to the direction
of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification, or
until a successor is appointed; and be it further

RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Druid Project be and hereby
is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
Incubator Druid podling; and be it further

RESOLVED, that all responsibility pertaining to the Apache
Incubator Druid podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
PMC are hereafter discharged.

[OFFER] Offer to Mentor one or two podlings

Hi,

this goes to the IPMC as well as to podlings watching this list.
I just recently became IPMC member and am currently pretty active in the IoTDB 
Project as “informal mentor” (started there before becoming IPMC member) 
together with 3 other pretty active mentors.
As I received a lot of help from mentors and learned a lot about the Apache Way 
since I joined incubating projects, I think its time now to give something 
back. I could join one or two other podlings as Mentor if I am needed.

I gained a reasonable amount of “podling” experience hands-on during the last 2 
years after joining the PLC4X project and moving from release 0.1 to TLP and am 
active in other Podlings.
My main interest is in the IoT, Big Data and analytics area (I’m active in 
PLC4X, Edgent, IoTDB and sometimes in Calcite) and mostly on the JVM. So this 
is the area where I could help most, I guess.

So if someone has an idea where I can help, feel free to contact me!

Julian

Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking

Hi,

I'm a new IPMC Member (no foundation member) and come from a PLC4X which has 
graduated months ago.
I already started to help other Podlings a bit.

And I agree with Dave in the sense that we should seek our way not in 
locking-out people but in finding ways to draw in more people.
It was already said multiple times that people from "mature" podlings or 
freshly graduated projects would be a good call as mentors this should be ONE 
way to go.

Julian

Am 13.08.19, 01:42 schrieb "Dave Fisher" :

> On Aug 12, 2019, at 4:29 PM, Greg Stein  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 5:26 PM Justin Mclean 
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>>> I will also note that if the IPMC switches to *voting* Members into the
>>> IPMC, that the Apache Member will be observing that vote take place on
>>> private@ through a subscription (they can reply!) or via the archives. …
>> 
>> Which is also the same for any project who votes in a ASF member as a
>> committer or PMC member.
>> 
> 
> I would counter that any project which creates such a bar for ASF Members
> may be doing it Wrong :)
> 
> (this goes into my general feeling that projects generally need to lower
> their bars, and become more inclusive)

I really think that we have long precedent to do most of what we need to do 
already in place.

I’m -1 on this proposal. I think it is a bad idea. It is so bad that I 
would seriously think about volunteering here less.

Just think about how many VOTEs we would need to do when a Podling comes 
in. Think about all the pro forma votes and discussions about people. BORING!

Frankly, I’m quite surprised that this is even being proposed.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Cheers,
> -g

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Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking

HI,

I think there's a couple of misconceptions in this thread. First off currently
you can join the IPMC two ways by being an ASF member and asking to join, the
other by being voted in. On average the people being voted in tend to not go
missing, review releases and sign off board reports more frequently.

This has come up on list the list before and some (ex)board members have
suggested that the IPMC shouldn’t;t allow people to be added this way.

The suggestion here isn’t to be exclusionary, in fact we now allow people who
have experience in incubator to ask if they can join, as it often hard for the
IPMC to recognise merit, but they still need to be voted in. [1] When a project
graduates I go though the PMC list and see if there are any likely IPMC
candidates and contact them to see if they are interested, you’ll notice that
more people have been voted in in recent times. In another thread I’ve gone one
step further and suggested that mentors look out for people on their projects
list who are release managers and vote on releases and suggest they be voted in
as IPMC members. [2] (Option D). I agree the bar should be low.

I do find it strange that we would allow people from a privileged group to auto
join, when they possibly may not have shown merit and/or have not being
involved in the incubator or an incubating project before. Obviously this
doesn’t apply to all ASF members that ask join the incubator, but I can point
to examples where this has given rise to serious issues. We’ve even had the
occasional mentor who has never sent an email to their podlings list, never
voted on a release and never signed off a board report.

I don’t mind if their's not consensus on this and letting this stay. There may
be better ways to make sure mentors who sign up do their job and make mentors
are more engaged. Please post your suggestions to this list for discussion.

Thanks,
Justin

1.
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9ee3860bc9066ba682484542d34976ab21d9b62106f26a96f19d997f@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
2.https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/8c6e12bb040856dddb5d9b7b4821739e441455f3c61c6e469eb98f81@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
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Re: [VOTE] Recommend 'Apache Druid graduation to Top Level Project' resolution to the board

Hi,

+1 good luck on your journey!

Thanks,
Justin

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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Druid (incubating) 0.15.1 [RC2]