Re: NetBeans next steps
I've sent it. ;-) -- Herzliche Grüße, Best regards Michael Müller Twitter: @muellermi Blog: blog.mueller-bruehl.de Web Development with Java and JSF: leanpub.com/jsf Java Lambdas and Parallel Streams: leanpub.com/lambdas Am 3. Oktober 2016 12:36:09 MESZ, schrieb Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com>: >Or maybe a list of names could be provided of those who have already >sent >in there ICLAs for Apache NetBeans (incubating)? And those could then >enter >the process of having their accounts created manually. > >Gj > >On Mon, Oct 3, 2016 at 12:25 PM, Geertjan Wielenga < >geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote: > >> OK, thanks, will work with Wade and others who may be encountering >this. >> >> Gj >> >> On Mon, Oct 3, 2016 at 12:20 PM, John D. Ament ><johndam...@apache.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Wade, >>> >>> ICLAs submitted before the vote don't get accounts created >automatically. >>> Please reach out to your mentors to get your account created. >>> >>> John >>> >>> On Oct 3, 2016 06:06, "Wade Chandler" <cons...@wadechandler.com> >wrote: >>> >>> > I have sent in my ICLA, and I received an acknowledgement it was >>> received >>> > and filed in the records. I have not received any other to suggest >an ID >>> > was created. When does that usually happen? Not a rush, but just >so I >>> know >>> > the protocol. >>> > >>> > Thanks >>> > >>> > Wade >>> > >>> > On Oct 1, 2016 11:35 AM, "Bertrand Delacretaz" ><bdelacre...@apache.org> >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > > Hi NetBeans mentors and initial committers, >>> > > >>> > > As per [0] I have updated podlings.xml and requested creation of >the >>> > > dev, users, commits and private lists via >>> > > https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq/incubator, with Geertjan >and >>> > > myself as moderators [4] for now. I just took care of steps 1 to >3 >>> > > from [0] so far. I'll be mostly offline until Tuesday morning, >if >>> > > other mentors can take care of the remaining steps please go >ahead! >>> > > >>> > > We will announce the availability of these lists here once they >are >>> > > created, along with subscription information. Everybody can >subscribe >>> > > to these lists except for the private one for which we'll send >>> > > instructions to the dev list separately. But please wait for the >lists >>> > > to be created before subscribing, obviously ;-) >>> > > >>> > > NetBeans initial committers are welcome to already send in their >iCLA >>> > > [1] as well as cCLA [2] if desired. The iCLA is required to get >an >>> > > Apache account, while cCLA is between you and your employer but >not >>> > > required by the ASF. See [3] for which Apache IDs are already >taken. >>> > > >>> > > -Bertrand >>> > > >>> > > [0] https://www.apache.org/dev/infra-contact#requesting-podling >>> > > [1] https://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt >>> > > [2] https://www.apache.org/licenses/cla-corporate.txt >>> > > [3] http://people.apache.org/committer-index.html >>> > > [4] https://reference.apache.org/pmc/ml >>> > > >>> > > >- >>> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: >general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> >> >>
Re: [VOTE] Accept NetBeans into the Apache Incubator
+1 -- Herzliche Grüße, Best regards Michael Müller Twitter: @muellermi Blog: blog.mueller-bruehl.de Web Development with Java and JSF: leanpub.com/jsf Java Lambdas and Parallel Streams: leanpub.com/lambdas Am 27. September 2016 22:30:36 MESZ, schrieb Ate Douma <a...@douma.nu>: >Hi everyone, > >Now that the discussion thread on the NetBeans Proposal has ended, >please vote on accepting NetBeans into the Apache Incubator. > >The ASF voting rules are described at: >http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html > >A vote for accepting a new Apache Incubator podling is a majority vote >for which only Incubator PMC member votes are binding. > >Votes from other people are also welcome as an indication of peoples >enthusiasm (or lack thereof). > >Please do not use this VOTE thread for discussions. >If needed, start a new thread instead. > >This vote will run for at least 72 hours. Please VOTE as follows >[] +1 Accept NetBeans into the Apache Incubator >[] +0 Abstain. >[] -1 Do not accept NetBeans into the Apache Incubator because ... > > >The proposal is listed below, but you can also access it on the wiki: >https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/NetBeansProposal > > >Thanks, >Ate. > >== Abstract == > >NetBeans is an open source development environment, tooling platform, >and >application framework, used by 1.5 million individuals each month. > >== Proposal == >Apache NetBeans will continue to focus on the areas it has focused on >while >sponsored by Sun Microsystems and Oracle. It will continue to primarily >focus on >providing tools for the Java ecosystem, while also being focused on >tools for >other ecosystems, languages and technologies, such as JavaScript, PHP, >and >C/C++. It will continue to actively support its community by means of >mailing >lists, tutorials, and documentation. > >== Background == >NetBeans started in 1995/96 in Prague, in the Czech Republic, as a >student >project. Sun Microsystems acquired and open sourced it in 2000 and, >with the >acquisition of Sun Microsystems by Oracle in 2010, became part of >Oracle. >Throughout its history in Sun Microsystems and Oracle, NetBeans has >been free >and open source and has been leveraged by its sponsor as a mechanism >for driving >the Java ecosystem forward. > >== Rationale == >Although NetBeans is already open source, moving it to a neutral place >like >Apache, with its strong governance model, is expected to help get more >contributions from various organizations. For example, large companies >are using >NetBeans as an application framework to build internal or commercial >applications and are much more likely to contribute to it once it moves >to >neutral Apache ground. At the same time, though Oracle will relinquish >its >control over NetBeans, individual contributors from Oracle are expected >to >continue contributing to NetBeans after it has been contributed to >Apache, >together with individual contributors from other organizations, as well >as >self-employed individual contributors. > >== Initial Goals == >The initial goals of the NetBeans contribution under the Apache >umbrella are to >establish a new home for an already fully functioning project and to >open up the >governance model so as to simplify and streamline contributions from >the community. > >== Current Status == >Meritocracy: NetBeans has been run by Oracle, with the majority of code >contributions coming from Oracle. The specific reason for moving to >Apache is to >expand the diversity of contributors and to increase the level of >meritocracy in >NetBeans. Apache NetBeans will be actively seeking new contributors and >will >welcome them warmly and provide a friendly and productive environment >for >purposes of providing a development environment, tooling environment, >and >application framework. > >Community: NetBeans has approximately 1.5 million active users around >the >world, in extremely diverse structures and organizations. NetBeans is >used by >teachers and instructors at schools and universities to teach Java and >other >languages. It is used by students as an educational tool. It is used by >large >organizations who base their software on the application framework >beneath >NetBeans. It is used by web developers for creating web sites and by >developers >using a range of tools, languages, and technologies to be productive >and >efficient software developers. > > Core Developers: The core developers will come from a range of >organizations, including Oracle, which will continue its investment in >NetBeans. > >Alignment: The application framework is the basis of a range of m
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans Incubator Proposal
Hi GJ, due to technical problems I missed one day of the discussion. I'm going to catch up. If possible, please add to to the initial commiters. Herzliche Grüße - Best Regards, Michael Müller Brühl, Germany blog.mueller-bruehl.de <http://blog.mueller-bruehl.de/> it-rezension.de <http://it-rezension.de/> @muellermi Read my books "Web Development with Java and JSF": https://leanpub.com/jsf "Java Lambdas und (parallel) Streams" Deutsche Ausgabe: https://leanpub.com/lambdas-de "Java Lambdas and (parallel) Streams" English edition: https://leanpub.com/lambdas On 09/23/2016 03:30 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote: OK. Before the vote, will work on making the initial contributors list as complete as possible. What is the process for doing that? Do I simply make changes directly in the proposal? Do I make the changes public here before adding them to the proposal? Do I work directly with the mentors via e-mails to discuss and then after than make the changes? Thanks, Geertjan On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 10:02 AM, John D. Ament <johndam...@apache.org> wrote: Hi Bertrand, Responses in line. On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 11:54 PM Bertrand Delacretaz < bdelacre...@apache.org> wrote: Hi Geertjan, I won't have time to look at your whole message now, just a few clarifications as far as committers/PMC is concerned. On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Geertjan Wielenga < geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote: ...Anyone on the list will, once the proposal has been voted on and accepted, automatically be contributors to the Apache NetBeans project... They will be commiters to be precise. Agreed, the way I interpretted Geertjan is that Netbeans contributor == ASF committer. They don't have the role of PMC/PPMC presently, so we'll see how that evolves. Anyone not on the list will need to be voted in by the initial contributors, which is a process that could be fast, but is still a process and can be avoided by inclusion in the initial contributors list... It's a simple process, the incubating project could very well have one vote for N people if that makes sense and they are all wanted. Its simple but hard. And no, I don't think we want bulk votes. What if someone is +1 add Mark S and -1 add Bertrand D? At least when its come up to the IPMC previously, we've recommended against it. Everyone on the initial contributors list is automatically part of the PMC. There's no PMC for an incubating project, just a PPMC as per http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html That group has no formal power, only the Incubator PMC can vote on the podling's releases or make other decisions which are binding at the foundation level. In practice, you are correct that the PPMC is a PMC in training, but really in a podling being a PPMC member doesn't make a difference IMO. It does. PPMC has one important job - vote on adding more people. We hope that they will learn to look at their releases very carefully while under incubation. ...Anyone on the list when the project leaves incubation gets write access to the project for the rest of their life... That's correct, but there can be a difference between the committers and PMC members once the project graduates. As a mentor, when graduating I would not accept a PMC member who has not contributed during incubation for example, whereas a committer that hasn't really been active during incubation is harmless. Committers don't have formal power once the project graduates, and if they don't behave their commits rights can easily be suspended, temporarily or permanently. That very rarely happens, just mentioning it to clarify the risks. That's... odd to say the least. I'm not aware of any specific cases, doesn't mean it hasn't' happened, but I can't think of any cases where it has (other than one special case recently of someone being asked out of the organization...) In summary, what you don't want in an Apache project is poisonous PMC members, so in my view to be on the PMC once graduating people will have to demonstrate during incubation that they are making positive contributions to it - just being on the initial list of committers doesn't count towards that, in my book. ...If the above is accurate, we do need to work on the initial contributors list prior to voting on the proposal, quite aside from the infra assessment... I still don't think that's required and should be avoided if it delays the vote for NetBeans acceptance, as the list of committers can be modified during incubation with just a bit of additional work. I don't think this will add a lot of work. I even gave him the idea of just generating a script of past committers based on commit history. If you still want do expand the list during incubation, best is to come up with a list of additional names that the existing NetBeans community feels deserve to be on that list (maybe based on votes on the ex
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans Incubator Proposal
GJ, regarding this, I request you ta add me to the initial committers. -- Herzliche Grüße, Best regards Michael Müller Twitter: @muellermi Blog: blog.mueller-bruehl.de Web Development with Java and JSF: leanpub.com/jsf Java Lambdas and Parallel Streams: leanpub.com/lambdas Am 23. September 2016 07:50:53 MESZ, schrieb Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com>: >Hi all, > >Indeed, I now have greater clarity on the initial contributors list >thanks >to meeting John Ament this afternoon. > >The initial contributors list is somehow a magic list. Anyone on the >list >will, once the proposal has been voted on and accepted, automatically >be >contributors to the Apache NetBeans project. Anyone not on the list >will >need to be voted in by the initial contributors, which is a process >that >could be fast, but is still a process and can be avoided by inclusion >in >the initial contributors list. Everyone on the initial contributors >list is >automatically part of the PMC. Anyone added to the contributors list >after >the proposal has been accepted needs to be voted into the contributors >list >and can also be invited by the PMC members to join the PMC. At the end >of >the incubation period, the contributors list will be examined and those >who >haven't contributed can be approached to ask whether they'd rather not >be >removed from the list. Anyone on the list when the project leaves >incubation gets write access to the project for the rest of their life. > >I may have misinterpreted something, though I hope the above covers the >whole of it. I hope someone will clarify on the points I may have >misunderstood. > >If the above is accurate, we do need to work on the initial >contributors >list prior to voting on the proposal, quite aside from the infra >assessment. > >The following categories of people need to be approached to invite onto >the >initial contributors list: > >1. Everyone who has contributed to NetBeans over the past 6 months or >so >who are currently not one of the 26 Oracle employees currently on the >initial contributors list. These are all Oracle employees, as well as >at >least one other, who is already on the initial contributors list -- >Emmanuel Hugonnet from Red Hat who has contributed the WildFly plugin >to >the NetBeans repository and continues to develop it there. I am not >sure >how many additional initial contributors this will result in, I >estimate >potentially around 20. > >2. Everyone who has created or provided a NetBeans plugin over the past >6 >months or so. Not only will these people need to sign an individual >contributors agreement, but also a software grant agreement, to enable >their code to be contributed to Apache NetBeans. Not everyone who makes >functionality available will be relevant to contributing their code to >NetBeans, in some cases they may simply want to continue making plugins >available rather than direct source code contributions. Some of the >plugin >authors are from organizations, e.g., the TypeScript plugin is provided >by >developers at a company called Everlaw, who may or may not want to make >their code directly available to Apache NetBeans. Other plugins provide >useful bits of functionality, e.g., several of the plugins by Benno >Markiewicz fall into this category, which should simply be part of >Apache >NetBeans rather than being provided as plugins. Caoyuan Deng is another >example, working on the Scala plugin, as well as the developers who >have >worked on the Python plugin. I estimate that the number of initial >contributors from this category number at least about 20. > >3. Ex-employees from Sun and Oracle who have worked on NetBeans in the >past >and may want to get involved again. Here I'm thinking of people such as >Milos Kleint who worked on, for example, the Apache Maven integration, >as >well as several others, including Radim Kubacki (developer of >NBAndroid.org) and Jesse Glick, as well as Ralph Ruijs, plus several >more. >In this category, I estimate about 10 to 20 people might be applicable. > >4. Random other people, e.g., Wade Chandler, who has been participating >in >this thread, and has been working recently on Groovy enhancements for >NetBeans IDE. This is not a separate plugin and there are other cases >where >there are potential individual contributors who don't fall into the >above >categories. > >5. Anyone else who I may have skipped above, e.g., the person Roman was >referring to earlier, and anyone who volunteers after we send a few >e-mails >to the various NetBeans mailing lists. > >6. A final point about "intent" and "interest" in John Ament's mail >above. >There
Re: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans Incubator Proposal
Hmm, as far as I know the biggest problem of OpenOffice had been licensing. ASFAIK LibreOffice's success is a different license which allows to incorporate more sources. I'm not a licensing specialist. I hope, wie wohnt geht problems. -- Herzliche Grüße, Best regards Michael Müller Twitter: @muellermi Blog: blog.mueller-bruehl.de Web Development with Java and JSF: leanpub.com/jsf Java Lambdas and Parallel Streams: leanpub.com/lambdas Am 19. September 2016 14:52:16 MESZ, schrieb Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com>: >On 19.09.2016 1:10, Raphael Bircher wrote: > >> My biggest fear ist the community. As I saw on the NetBeans ML, the >> decision to join the ASF was made by Oracle. Well a load of the >> community members welcome this step, but there are also fears. This >> fears has to be addressed, this is very very important. > > >You are right. There are mixed feelings about this move. However, by >far >the majority are strongly in favor. Yesterday at JavaOne, we discussed >this >move at length in a number of sessions and James Gosling, the most >respected individual contributor on the initial committers list (who >sent >his ICL the second he was invited to join the project, i.e., even >before >the proposal was submitted) said he is "unspeakably thrilled" about >NetBeans in the context of Apache. > >Indeed, there are going to be people who are negative about this. Some >have >said that Apache is a "burial ground". I disagree with that and I think >that is nonsense. However, just because one or two people say that does >not >mean I think any differently about Apache. > >Thanks, > >Geertjan > >On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Raphael Bircher ><rbircherapa...@gmail.com> >wrote: > >> Hi Geertjan >> >> I'm registred at NetBeams now, to get a closer look at the project. I >> was a bit shocked about the similarities with the formar >> OpenOffice.org project. The structure of the Project, the workflow >> etc. are so close to the OpenOffice.org project, much closer as I >> expected. My biggest fear for the incubation is not the technical >> aspect. For infrastructure we will find solutions, and for many >> problems exist already blueprints from the OpenOffice Project. My >> biggest fear ist the community. As I saw on the NetBeans ML, the >> decision to join the ASF was made by Oracle. Well a load of the >> community members welcome this step, but there are also fears. This >> fears has to be addressed, this is very very important. >> >> One Mail also complained about the Initial Committer list. Are all >> active committers who did commit in the last 6 month (or so) on the >> initial committer list. forgotten people can create bad blood and >> disappointment. The committers are the most value part of a project. >> >> This are at the moment my biggest concerns. >> >> Regards Raphael >> >> On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 10:23 AM, Geertjan Wielenga >> <geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote: >> > Nightly builds is all that's needed, indeed, no one needs to >announce >> them, >> > they should simply be available. Agreed it's important to >distinguish >> > between nightly builds and official releases, that's exactly how >NetBeans >> > works currently. The #1 requirement here is that there should be >nightly >> > builds and that is supported, from your response here. >> > >> > Geertjan >> > >> > On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:28 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz < >> > bdelacre...@apache.org> wrote: >> > >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 7:00 AM, Geertjan Wielenga >> >> <geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote: >> >> > ...the #1 requirement is for Apache NetBeans to be able >> >> > to produce daily/release builds and to upload them to >netbeans.org or >> >> > another download area under Apache >> >> >> >> Daily releases are problematic in Apache projects as the PMC needs >to >> >> approve releases, and in general those votes last at least 72 >hours >> >> due to our async collaboration model. >> >> >> >> AFAIK Apache Cordova for example is making very frequent releases, >it >> >> might be interesting to find out how they enable that, in due >time. >> >> >> >> Nightly builds should not be announced outside of the project's >> >> developers mailing lists, to mark a clear line between those and >> >> official releases. >> >> >> >> All those things can be discussed during incubation of course, >just >> >> wanted to mention them due to the above #1 requirement. >> >> >> >> -Bertrand >> >> >> >> >- >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> >> >> >> >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> >>
