Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Sign me up ( Am 08.02.19, 11:55 schrieb "Lars Francke" : One more thing: We've got three mentors. If anyone else would like to volunteer we won't say no :) I've used the E-Mail addresses from your mails in the proposal. Feel free to update to an @apache.org address if you want to. On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 11:05 AM Lars Francke wrote: > Thanks to the three of you. > > Those arguments make sense to me and we indeed have a few "newcomers" with > us (that includes me in a non-committer role) so I've changed my opinion > and think the Incubator way would be the best. > > I'll edit the Wiki proposal (and add Christofer whom I've forgotten, > sorry!) to indicate this. > > If there are no other comments or concerns about anything we've written in > the proposal I would "close" this discussion soon and start a vote early > next week. > > Cheers, > Lars > > (as a heads up: I might be slow to respond next week due to limited > connectivity but we're in no rush as far as I'm concerned) > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 10:53 AM Myrle Krantz wrote: > >> My initial thought was: this should go straight to TLP: Training should be >> done by people who know what they're training about: whether it be the >> Apache Way or a specific project. All the committers will likely be >> people >> who've at least reached committer status in a project, and most of them >> will probably be ASF members. >> >> But then I thought again: developing effective materials will require >> contact to the users of those materials. What better place to find people >> to QA training materials and approaches than in the incubator? I think a >> training project would benefit from incubator participation in a different >> manner than most projects do, but I do think starting in the incubator >> (and >> possibly, after discussion, even staying there) might be a good approach >> for this project. >> >> Best Regards, >> Myrle >> >> On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 10:34 AM Sönke Liebau >> wrote: >> >> > Hi, >> > >> > after spending some time thinking about this I also tend towards the >> > Incubator route as I am sure this will help build and grow an active >> > community and processes. >> > >> > Best regards, >> > Sönke >> > >> > On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 6:38 AM Justin Mclean >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > Hi, >> > > >> > > > discussion seems to have died down. Before moving on I'd really >> like to >> > > > hear the opinions of the interested contributors on which direction >> to >> > go. >> > > > Otherwise we might have to put it to a vote? >> > > >> > > Perhaps I biased, but I think going via the incubator is alway >> helpful. >> > :-) The big question is would the board support the project going >> straight >> > to TLP? I really don’t know, it’s approved them in the past and not >> > rejected any that I know of. What could the project do to show the board >> > that going straight to TLP is justifiable? Perhaps start by list out how >> > many ASF members you have on the project and and give an idea of how >> long >> > they been around, how many projects they gone through incubation with >> and >> > how active they are in the incubator and may help you decide which path >> to >> > go and give the board some reassurance. >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > Justin >> > > - >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> > > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Sönke Liebau >> > Partner >> > Tel. +49 179 7940878 >> > OpenCore GmbH & Co. KG - Thomas-Mann-Straße 8 - 22880 Wedel - Germany >> > >> > - >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> > >> > >> > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
One more thing: We've got three mentors. If anyone else would like to volunteer we won't say no :) I've used the E-Mail addresses from your mails in the proposal. Feel free to update to an @apache.org address if you want to. On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 11:05 AM Lars Francke wrote: > Thanks to the three of you. > > Those arguments make sense to me and we indeed have a few "newcomers" with > us (that includes me in a non-committer role) so I've changed my opinion > and think the Incubator way would be the best. > > I'll edit the Wiki proposal (and add Christofer whom I've forgotten, > sorry!) to indicate this. > > If there are no other comments or concerns about anything we've written in > the proposal I would "close" this discussion soon and start a vote early > next week. > > Cheers, > Lars > > (as a heads up: I might be slow to respond next week due to limited > connectivity but we're in no rush as far as I'm concerned) > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 10:53 AM Myrle Krantz wrote: > >> My initial thought was: this should go straight to TLP: Training should be >> done by people who know what they're training about: whether it be the >> Apache Way or a specific project. All the committers will likely be >> people >> who've at least reached committer status in a project, and most of them >> will probably be ASF members. >> >> But then I thought again: developing effective materials will require >> contact to the users of those materials. What better place to find people >> to QA training materials and approaches than in the incubator? I think a >> training project would benefit from incubator participation in a different >> manner than most projects do, but I do think starting in the incubator >> (and >> possibly, after discussion, even staying there) might be a good approach >> for this project. >> >> Best Regards, >> Myrle >> >> On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 10:34 AM Sönke Liebau >> wrote: >> >> > Hi, >> > >> > after spending some time thinking about this I also tend towards the >> > Incubator route as I am sure this will help build and grow an active >> > community and processes. >> > >> > Best regards, >> > Sönke >> > >> > On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 6:38 AM Justin Mclean >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > Hi, >> > > >> > > > discussion seems to have died down. Before moving on I'd really >> like to >> > > > hear the opinions of the interested contributors on which direction >> to >> > go. >> > > > Otherwise we might have to put it to a vote? >> > > >> > > Perhaps I biased, but I think going via the incubator is alway >> helpful. >> > :-) The big question is would the board support the project going >> straight >> > to TLP? I really don’t know, it’s approved them in the past and not >> > rejected any that I know of. What could the project do to show the board >> > that going straight to TLP is justifiable? Perhaps start by list out how >> > many ASF members you have on the project and and give an idea of how >> long >> > they been around, how many projects they gone through incubation with >> and >> > how active they are in the incubator and may help you decide which path >> to >> > go and give the board some reassurance. >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > Justin >> > > - >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> > > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Sönke Liebau >> > Partner >> > Tel. +49 179 7940878 >> > OpenCore GmbH & Co. KG - Thomas-Mann-Straße 8 - 22880 Wedel - Germany >> > >> > - >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> > >> > >> >
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Thanks to the three of you. Those arguments make sense to me and we indeed have a few "newcomers" with us (that includes me in a non-committer role) so I've changed my opinion and think the Incubator way would be the best. I'll edit the Wiki proposal (and add Christofer whom I've forgotten, sorry!) to indicate this. If there are no other comments or concerns about anything we've written in the proposal I would "close" this discussion soon and start a vote early next week. Cheers, Lars (as a heads up: I might be slow to respond next week due to limited connectivity but we're in no rush as far as I'm concerned) On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 10:53 AM Myrle Krantz wrote: > My initial thought was: this should go straight to TLP: Training should be > done by people who know what they're training about: whether it be the > Apache Way or a specific project. All the committers will likely be people > who've at least reached committer status in a project, and most of them > will probably be ASF members. > > But then I thought again: developing effective materials will require > contact to the users of those materials. What better place to find people > to QA training materials and approaches than in the incubator? I think a > training project would benefit from incubator participation in a different > manner than most projects do, but I do think starting in the incubator (and > possibly, after discussion, even staying there) might be a good approach > for this project. > > Best Regards, > Myrle > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 10:34 AM Sönke Liebau > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > after spending some time thinking about this I also tend towards the > > Incubator route as I am sure this will help build and grow an active > > community and processes. > > > > Best regards, > > Sönke > > > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 6:38 AM Justin Mclean > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > discussion seems to have died down. Before moving on I'd really like > to > > > > hear the opinions of the interested contributors on which direction > to > > go. > > > > Otherwise we might have to put it to a vote? > > > > > > Perhaps I biased, but I think going via the incubator is alway helpful. > > :-) The big question is would the board support the project going > straight > > to TLP? I really don’t know, it’s approved them in the past and not > > rejected any that I know of. What could the project do to show the board > > that going straight to TLP is justifiable? Perhaps start by list out how > > many ASF members you have on the project and and give an idea of how long > > they been around, how many projects they gone through incubation with and > > how active they are in the incubator and may help you decide which path > to > > go and give the board some reassurance. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Justin > > > - > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > > > -- > > Sönke Liebau > > Partner > > Tel. +49 179 7940878 > > OpenCore GmbH & Co. KG - Thomas-Mann-Straße 8 - 22880 Wedel - Germany > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
My initial thought was: this should go straight to TLP: Training should be done by people who know what they're training about: whether it be the Apache Way or a specific project. All the committers will likely be people who've at least reached committer status in a project, and most of them will probably be ASF members. But then I thought again: developing effective materials will require contact to the users of those materials. What better place to find people to QA training materials and approaches than in the incubator? I think a training project would benefit from incubator participation in a different manner than most projects do, but I do think starting in the incubator (and possibly, after discussion, even staying there) might be a good approach for this project. Best Regards, Myrle On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 10:34 AM Sönke Liebau wrote: > Hi, > > after spending some time thinking about this I also tend towards the > Incubator route as I am sure this will help build and grow an active > community and processes. > > Best regards, > Sönke > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 6:38 AM Justin Mclean > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > discussion seems to have died down. Before moving on I'd really like to > > > hear the opinions of the interested contributors on which direction to > go. > > > Otherwise we might have to put it to a vote? > > > > Perhaps I biased, but I think going via the incubator is alway helpful. > :-) The big question is would the board support the project going straight > to TLP? I really don’t know, it’s approved them in the past and not > rejected any that I know of. What could the project do to show the board > that going straight to TLP is justifiable? Perhaps start by list out how > many ASF members you have on the project and and give an idea of how long > they been around, how many projects they gone through incubation with and > how active they are in the incubator and may help you decide which path to > go and give the board some reassurance. > > > > Thanks, > > Justin > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > -- > Sönke Liebau > Partner > Tel. +49 179 7940878 > OpenCore GmbH & Co. KG - Thomas-Mann-Straße 8 - 22880 Wedel - Germany > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Hi, after spending some time thinking about this I also tend towards the Incubator route as I am sure this will help build and grow an active community and processes. Best regards, Sönke On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 6:38 AM Justin Mclean wrote: > > Hi, > > > discussion seems to have died down. Before moving on I'd really like to > > hear the opinions of the interested contributors on which direction to go. > > Otherwise we might have to put it to a vote? > > Perhaps I biased, but I think going via the incubator is alway helpful. :-) > The big question is would the board support the project going straight to > TLP? I really don’t know, it’s approved them in the past and not rejected any > that I know of. What could the project do to show the board that going > straight to TLP is justifiable? Perhaps start by list out how many ASF > members you have on the project and and give an idea of how long they been > around, how many projects they gone through incubation with and how active > they are in the incubator and may help you decide which path to go and give > the board some reassurance. > > Thanks, > Justin > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > -- Sönke Liebau Partner Tel. +49 179 7940878 OpenCore GmbH & Co. KG - Thomas-Mann-Straße 8 - 22880 Wedel - Germany - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Hi, > discussion seems to have died down. Before moving on I'd really like to > hear the opinions of the interested contributors on which direction to go. > Otherwise we might have to put it to a vote? Perhaps I biased, but I think going via the incubator is alway helpful. :-) The big question is would the board support the project going straight to TLP? I really don’t know, it’s approved them in the past and not rejected any that I know of. What could the project do to show the board that going straight to TLP is justifiable? Perhaps start by list out how many ASF members you have on the project and and give an idea of how long they been around, how many projects they gone through incubation with and how active they are in the incubator and may help you decide which path to go and give the board some reassurance. Thanks, Justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Hello everyone, discussion seems to have died down. Before moving on I'd really like to hear the opinions of the interested contributors on which direction to go. Otherwise we might have to put it to a vote? Cheers, Lars On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 11:52 AM Lars Francke wrote: > Dmitry, > > I agree that there are lots of technical things to discuss and I won't > stop anyone doing that but I'd like to keep this thread about the proposal > and the project itself knowing that technical stuff is what most of us do > and like to do and it's also more interesting but let's get the "boring" > part out of the way :) > > I assume (that's actually part of the proposal text) that the first few > weeks/months of the new project will be spent discussing (and probably > testing) a lot of these technical issues. > > Cheers, > Lars > > On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 11:47 AM Dmitriy Pavlov wrote: > >> Hi Lars, >> >> About the project: I've got only one thing to say here: Apache Incubator >> is >> intended to be a place where a community is build up and everybody (mostly >> newcomers) learn guides and policies. So straight-to-TLP is also a >> possible >> option, but some incubation process isn't bad at all. But still, it is up >> to board to decide if we go to TLP without incubation. >> >> I'm now interested in more technical aspects of contributing to Apache >> Training: source code for labs, presentations. >> >> For example, I can start working on Apache Ignite training, so I will need >> to contribute 2 types of presentations (source and prepared for students), >> project code for labs, solved labs, publish it using some website or wiki. >> Are there any VCS compatible presentation development tools? Can we use, >> for example, Google Docs for presentations? >> >> Sincerely, >> Dmitriy Pavlov >> >> пн, 4 февр. 2019 г. в 12:56, Hans-Peter Zorn : >> >> > Hi all, >> > >> > I have been creating training material for various big data apache >> > projects (mostly Apache Spark) for the last five years and we would >> like to >> > contribute those. I for myself have not been directly involved with the >> ASF >> > directly, however I have been contributing to some open source projects >> in >> > the past. We have been in discussion about this with Lars Francke and >> > Sören Liebau the last weeks. Currently most of the material we have is >> > powerpoint and zeppelin notebooks at the moment but learning on how to >> make >> > this more collaboration friendly format-wise would be one thing we would >> > like to see in this project. >> > >> > >> > Kind regards, >> > Hans-Peter >> > >> > >> > >> > > Am 25.01.2019 um 13:49 schrieb Lars Francke : >> > > >> > > Hello everyone, >> > > >> > > this is the result of the discussion I started in December 2018[1]. >> > > >> > > I would like to start this thread to get feedback on a proposal we've >> > been >> > > working on for a project focused on developing training material for >> > Apache >> > > & 3rd party projects. >> > > >> > > The full proposal can be found here < >> > > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal> >> > > >> > > Disclaimer: It is a bit different than most other proposals as it >> > basically >> > > starts at zero. >> > > >> > > Our main goals for this discussion are: >> > > * Finding mentors and interested contributors >> > > * Discuss whether this should be a Incubator project, straight to TLP >> or >> > a >> > > Central Service >> > > * Sharpen the scope of the project >> > > >> > > While I personally have a relatively long history as a contributor, >> > > committer etc. at Apache I've never been a mentor before so we would >> love >> > > for some experienced people to help us out. >> > > >> > > We're looking forward to all kinds of feedback. >> > > >> > > Cheers, >> > > Lars >> > > >> > > [1] < >> > > >> > >> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E >> > >> >> > >> > >> > - >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> > >> > >> >
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Dmitry, I agree that there are lots of technical things to discuss and I won't stop anyone doing that but I'd like to keep this thread about the proposal and the project itself knowing that technical stuff is what most of us do and like to do and it's also more interesting but let's get the "boring" part out of the way :) I assume (that's actually part of the proposal text) that the first few weeks/months of the new project will be spent discussing (and probably testing) a lot of these technical issues. Cheers, Lars On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 11:47 AM Dmitriy Pavlov wrote: > Hi Lars, > > About the project: I've got only one thing to say here: Apache Incubator is > intended to be a place where a community is build up and everybody (mostly > newcomers) learn guides and policies. So straight-to-TLP is also a possible > option, but some incubation process isn't bad at all. But still, it is up > to board to decide if we go to TLP without incubation. > > I'm now interested in more technical aspects of contributing to Apache > Training: source code for labs, presentations. > > For example, I can start working on Apache Ignite training, so I will need > to contribute 2 types of presentations (source and prepared for students), > project code for labs, solved labs, publish it using some website or wiki. > Are there any VCS compatible presentation development tools? Can we use, > for example, Google Docs for presentations? > > Sincerely, > Dmitriy Pavlov > > пн, 4 февр. 2019 г. в 12:56, Hans-Peter Zorn : > > > Hi all, > > > > I have been creating training material for various big data apache > > projects (mostly Apache Spark) for the last five years and we would like > to > > contribute those. I for myself have not been directly involved with the > ASF > > directly, however I have been contributing to some open source projects > in > > the past. We have been in discussion about this with Lars Francke and > > Sören Liebau the last weeks. Currently most of the material we have is > > powerpoint and zeppelin notebooks at the moment but learning on how to > make > > this more collaboration friendly format-wise would be one thing we would > > like to see in this project. > > > > > > Kind regards, > > Hans-Peter > > > > > > > > > Am 25.01.2019 um 13:49 schrieb Lars Francke : > > > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > > > this is the result of the discussion I started in December 2018[1]. > > > > > > I would like to start this thread to get feedback on a proposal we've > > been > > > working on for a project focused on developing training material for > > Apache > > > & 3rd party projects. > > > > > > The full proposal can be found here < > > > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal> > > > > > > Disclaimer: It is a bit different than most other proposals as it > > basically > > > starts at zero. > > > > > > Our main goals for this discussion are: > > > * Finding mentors and interested contributors > > > * Discuss whether this should be a Incubator project, straight to TLP > or > > a > > > Central Service > > > * Sharpen the scope of the project > > > > > > While I personally have a relatively long history as a contributor, > > > committer etc. at Apache I've never been a mentor before so we would > love > > > for some experienced people to help us out. > > > > > > We're looking forward to all kinds of feedback. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Lars > > > > > > [1] < > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > > >> > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Oh and one more thing that I at least want to mention is the name. I know that podlings can do a name search after the incubation has started. We thought about using "Training" as the proper name though. It's very descriptive and easy to understand/recognize in multiple languages. https://training.apache.org etc. Are there any issues with that? On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 10:20 AM Lars Francke wrote: > Dmitry, Kenneth, > > sorry for the slow replies. I was offline on vacation for a few days. I'll > add both of you to the Wiki (if you haven't already done so). > > I love that we have gathered quite a few interested people to participate > already but I'd love to hear more (or any really) opinions on the proposal > itself as well as the route it should go. > > I'm now leaning in favor of straight-to-TLP. I know we don't have any > fixed duration for DISCUSS threads and discussion has died down but I don't > really want to close it yet so I'll wait at least until the end of the week > before starting any potential next steps. > > > I'm not a professional teacher or trainer, but I have been a part of > preparing and delivering a number of trainings and talks (also the usual > teaching, tutoring, talking in grad school FWIW) and I love it. > > I assume (haven't checked) that this is the background of most of us. It > certainly is mine as well. So that should not be a problem at all! > > Cheers, > Lars > > On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 9:22 PM Kenneth Knowles wrote: > >> Hi Lars, >> >> I would like to be a part of this too, according to your & the others' >> best >> judgment. I'm PMC at Beam & incubator. > > One of my favorite things about Beam that keeps >> me working on it is that it is a natural integration point of lots of >> different Apache projects both as data processing engines (Spark, Flink, >> Apex, Samza, Tez, Storm, incubating Nemo, ex-incubating Gearpump, ...) >> used >> by Beam users and also data stores (Cassandra, HBase, Hadoop, Tika, Hive, >> ...) they want to read/write from. So our trainings are already basically >> cross-project Apache-focused material and it would be great >> cross-pollination. We often have to help users configure their Spark & >> Flink clusters, etc. >> >> Kenn >> >> On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 2:04 AM Dmitriy Pavlov >> wrote: >> >> > Hi Lars, >> > >> > I'd like to be a part of this. I'm PMC at Apache Ignite. Sometimes I >> need >> > to give individual feedback to developers related to both Apache >> policies >> > and spirit of developing software in a community way. Why not invest >> effort >> > into training and education materials instead? >> > >> > I gave several talks in Russia related to The Apache Software Foundation >> > and >> > blog about The Apache Way. I also assist newcomers joining Apache >> Ignite. >> > So count on my support, and I definitely would like to became committer >> at >> > Training. >> > >> > Sincerely, >> > Dmitriy Pavlov >> > >> > ср, 30 янв. 2019 г. в 01:25, Lars Francke : >> > >> > > Craig, >> > > >> > > that's great news. Thank you for volunteering. I've added you to the >> > Wiki. >> > > >> > > Cheers, >> > > Lars >> > > >> > > On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 11:01 PM Craig Russell >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > Hi Lars, >> > > > >> > > > I'll volunteer to mentor the project if it ends up incubating. And >> I'd >> > > > like to join the discussion as a member of the (P)PMC. The idea of >> an >> > > open >> > > > source project to help rationalize training materials is very >> > appealing. >> > > > >> > > > I'm also very interested in the ecosystem of not-for-profit >> education >> > and >> > > > I think this project would be a great fit. >> > > > >> > > > Craig >> > > > >> > > > > On Jan 28, 2019, at 5:49 AM, Lars Francke > > >> > > > wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > I've been going back and forth on the topic of TLP vs. Incubator >> > > podling. >> > > > > >> > > > > I don't really have a strong opinion but I'm leaning slightly in >> > favor >> > > of >> > > > > "straight to TLP" and the past discussion (linked in previous >> mail) >> > did >> > > > > also have more voices in favor of TLP. But of course there are >> > > arguments >> > > > to >> > > > > be made for both sides. >> > > > > >> > > > > I've been wondering if anyone here has opinions on this part of >> the >> > > > > proposal? >> > > > > >> > > > > In a related thread I asked about how to proceed in terms of >> choosing >> > > > > members for a PMC and one suggestion was to make it depend on the >> > > route: >> > > > > >> > > > > * Incubator: On graduation ask and assess current PMC members and >> see >> > > if >> > > > > everyone has proven their merit and is willing to continue >> > > > > * TLP: Start with a PMC consisting of only ASF members (plus >> > additional >> > > > > committers) and then accept additional members for the PMC on a >> > > "normal" >> > > > > basis >> > > > > >> > > > > Cheers, >> > > > > Lars >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 1:49 PM Lars Francke
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Hi Lars, About the project: I've got only one thing to say here: Apache Incubator is intended to be a place where a community is build up and everybody (mostly newcomers) learn guides and policies. So straight-to-TLP is also a possible option, but some incubation process isn't bad at all. But still, it is up to board to decide if we go to TLP without incubation. I'm now interested in more technical aspects of contributing to Apache Training: source code for labs, presentations. For example, I can start working on Apache Ignite training, so I will need to contribute 2 types of presentations (source and prepared for students), project code for labs, solved labs, publish it using some website or wiki. Are there any VCS compatible presentation development tools? Can we use, for example, Google Docs for presentations? Sincerely, Dmitriy Pavlov пн, 4 февр. 2019 г. в 12:56, Hans-Peter Zorn : > Hi all, > > I have been creating training material for various big data apache > projects (mostly Apache Spark) for the last five years and we would like to > contribute those. I for myself have not been directly involved with the ASF > directly, however I have been contributing to some open source projects in > the past. We have been in discussion about this with Lars Francke and > Sören Liebau the last weeks. Currently most of the material we have is > powerpoint and zeppelin notebooks at the moment but learning on how to make > this more collaboration friendly format-wise would be one thing we would > like to see in this project. > > > Kind regards, > Hans-Peter > > > > > Am 25.01.2019 um 13:49 schrieb Lars Francke : > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > this is the result of the discussion I started in December 2018[1]. > > > > I would like to start this thread to get feedback on a proposal we've > been > > working on for a project focused on developing training material for > Apache > > & 3rd party projects. > > > > The full proposal can be found here < > > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal> > > > > Disclaimer: It is a bit different than most other proposals as it > basically > > starts at zero. > > > > Our main goals for this discussion are: > > * Finding mentors and interested contributors > > * Discuss whether this should be a Incubator project, straight to TLP or > a > > Central Service > > * Sharpen the scope of the project > > > > While I personally have a relatively long history as a contributor, > > committer etc. at Apache I've never been a mentor before so we would love > > for some experienced people to help us out. > > > > We're looking forward to all kinds of feedback. > > > > Cheers, > > Lars > > > > [1] < > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > >> > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Hi all, I have been creating training material for various big data apache projects (mostly Apache Spark) for the last five years and we would like to contribute those. I for myself have not been directly involved with the ASF directly, however I have been contributing to some open source projects in the past. We have been in discussion about this with Lars Francke and Sören Liebau the last weeks. Currently most of the material we have is powerpoint and zeppelin notebooks at the moment but learning on how to make this more collaboration friendly format-wise would be one thing we would like to see in this project. Kind regards, Hans-Peter > Am 25.01.2019 um 13:49 schrieb Lars Francke : > > Hello everyone, > > this is the result of the discussion I started in December 2018[1]. > > I would like to start this thread to get feedback on a proposal we've been > working on for a project focused on developing training material for Apache > & 3rd party projects. > > The full proposal can be found here < > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal> > > Disclaimer: It is a bit different than most other proposals as it basically > starts at zero. > > Our main goals for this discussion are: > * Finding mentors and interested contributors > * Discuss whether this should be a Incubator project, straight to TLP or a > Central Service > * Sharpen the scope of the project > > While I personally have a relatively long history as a contributor, > committer etc. at Apache I've never been a mentor before so we would love > for some experienced people to help us out. > > We're looking forward to all kinds of feedback. > > Cheers, > Lars > > [1] < > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E >> - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Hi Chris, thanks for chiming in and your offer! The setup you describe sounds pretty much exactly what we envisioned when we started looking at infrastructure around trainings - back then I think it just sort of died down for a mixture of reasons like too much effort for just the few trainings we had and a lack of "the perfect technology". I remember looking at reveal.js also couldn't tell you why we discarded it back then to be honest, but I suspect it may well have been due to lack of understanding. Regarding the "plugin architecture" we ended up with something that sounds very similar, we have a few plugins that generate images out of things like websequencediagram or draw.io code and then a macro that updates images in the Powerpoint slides to the generated version, so to me these two things sound very aligned. So in short, we'd of course immensely appreciate a donation of your work! Best regards, Sönke On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 10:35 AM Christofer Dutz wrote: > > Hi all, > > finally having some time to read through the proposal, I too would be > interested in participating. > > I do have quite a bit of experience in creating trainings as this is part of > my job at codecentric. > For the ASF I have for example prepared a Maven training, which I held in > Vancouver a few years ago. > > Justin pointed me to having a look as maybe my presentation-setup could be > helpful as well. > Most presentations are in a binary format (or in an XML format that's so > complex, I'd call it XML-binary) > So a typical git workflow is sort of pointless. > > For the last few years I have been doing all my talks, trainings etc. in a > setup I have been perfecting. > I am writing content as Asciidoc files and have them generated to slides via > RevealJS via Maven. > > My setup currently supports a huge variety of plugins that allow all sorts of > charts, diagrams, or other content. > > The main benefit for me is that this way I can always tag, branch and compare > versions of my talks. > > Guess it could be helpful in community built content and reviews. > > So if you are interested in this, I would be happy to donate that ... as well > as my existing training material. > > Chris > > > Am 04.02.19, 10:21 schrieb "Lars Francke" : > > Dmitry, Kenneth, > > sorry for the slow replies. I was offline on vacation for a few days. I'll > add both of you to the Wiki (if you haven't already done so). > > I love that we have gathered quite a few interested people to participate > already but I'd love to hear more (or any really) opinions on the proposal > itself as well as the route it should go. > > I'm now leaning in favor of straight-to-TLP. I know we don't have any > fixed > duration for DISCUSS threads and discussion has died down but I don't > really want to close it yet so I'll wait at least until the end of the > week > before starting any potential next steps. > > > I'm not a professional teacher or trainer, but I have been a part of > preparing and delivering a number of trainings and talks (also the usual > teaching, tutoring, talking in grad school FWIW) and I love it. > > I assume (haven't checked) that this is the background of most of us. It > certainly is mine as well. So that should not be a problem at all! > > Cheers, > Lars > > On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 9:22 PM Kenneth Knowles wrote: > > > Hi Lars, > > > > I would like to be a part of this too, according to your & the others' > best > > judgment. I'm PMC at Beam & incubator. > > One of my favorite things about Beam that keeps > > me working on it is that it is a natural integration point of lots of > > different Apache projects both as data processing engines (Spark, Flink, > > Apex, Samza, Tez, Storm, incubating Nemo, ex-incubating Gearpump, ...) > used > > by Beam users and also data stores (Cassandra, HBase, Hadoop, Tika, > Hive, > > ...) they want to read/write from. So our trainings are already > basically > > cross-project Apache-focused material and it would be great > > cross-pollination. We often have to help users configure their Spark & > > Flink clusters, etc. > > > > Kenn > > > > On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 2:04 AM Dmitriy Pavlov > wrote: > > > > > Hi Lars, > > > > > > I'd like to be a part of this. I'm PMC at Apache Ignite. Sometimes I > need > > > to give individual feedback to developers related to both Apache > policies > > > and spirit of developing software in a community way. Why not invest > > effort > > > into training and education materials instead? > > > > > > I gave several talks in Russia related to The Apache Software > Foundation > > > and > > > blog about The Apache Way. I also assist newcomers joining Apache > Ignite. > > > So count on my support, and I definitely would like to became > committer > > at > > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Hi all, finally having some time to read through the proposal, I too would be interested in participating. I do have quite a bit of experience in creating trainings as this is part of my job at codecentric. For the ASF I have for example prepared a Maven training, which I held in Vancouver a few years ago. Justin pointed me to having a look as maybe my presentation-setup could be helpful as well. Most presentations are in a binary format (or in an XML format that's so complex, I'd call it XML-binary) So a typical git workflow is sort of pointless. For the last few years I have been doing all my talks, trainings etc. in a setup I have been perfecting. I am writing content as Asciidoc files and have them generated to slides via RevealJS via Maven. My setup currently supports a huge variety of plugins that allow all sorts of charts, diagrams, or other content. The main benefit for me is that this way I can always tag, branch and compare versions of my talks. Guess it could be helpful in community built content and reviews. So if you are interested in this, I would be happy to donate that ... as well as my existing training material. Chris Am 04.02.19, 10:21 schrieb "Lars Francke" : Dmitry, Kenneth, sorry for the slow replies. I was offline on vacation for a few days. I'll add both of you to the Wiki (if you haven't already done so). I love that we have gathered quite a few interested people to participate already but I'd love to hear more (or any really) opinions on the proposal itself as well as the route it should go. I'm now leaning in favor of straight-to-TLP. I know we don't have any fixed duration for DISCUSS threads and discussion has died down but I don't really want to close it yet so I'll wait at least until the end of the week before starting any potential next steps. > I'm not a professional teacher or trainer, but I have been a part of preparing and delivering a number of trainings and talks (also the usual teaching, tutoring, talking in grad school FWIW) and I love it. I assume (haven't checked) that this is the background of most of us. It certainly is mine as well. So that should not be a problem at all! Cheers, Lars On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 9:22 PM Kenneth Knowles wrote: > Hi Lars, > > I would like to be a part of this too, according to your & the others' best > judgment. I'm PMC at Beam & incubator. One of my favorite things about Beam that keeps > me working on it is that it is a natural integration point of lots of > different Apache projects both as data processing engines (Spark, Flink, > Apex, Samza, Tez, Storm, incubating Nemo, ex-incubating Gearpump, ...) used > by Beam users and also data stores (Cassandra, HBase, Hadoop, Tika, Hive, > ...) they want to read/write from. So our trainings are already basically > cross-project Apache-focused material and it would be great > cross-pollination. We often have to help users configure their Spark & > Flink clusters, etc. > > Kenn > > On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 2:04 AM Dmitriy Pavlov wrote: > > > Hi Lars, > > > > I'd like to be a part of this. I'm PMC at Apache Ignite. Sometimes I need > > to give individual feedback to developers related to both Apache policies > > and spirit of developing software in a community way. Why not invest > effort > > into training and education materials instead? > > > > I gave several talks in Russia related to The Apache Software Foundation > > and > > blog about The Apache Way. I also assist newcomers joining Apache Ignite. > > So count on my support, and I definitely would like to became committer > at > > Training. > > > > Sincerely, > > Dmitriy Pavlov > > > > ср, 30 янв. 2019 г. в 01:25, Lars Francke : > > > > > Craig, > > > > > > that's great news. Thank you for volunteering. I've added you to the > > Wiki. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Lars > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 11:01 PM Craig Russell > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Lars, > > > > > > > > I'll volunteer to mentor the project if it ends up incubating. And > I'd > > > > like to join the discussion as a member of the (P)PMC. The idea of an > > > open > > > > source project to help rationalize training materials is very > > appealing. > > > > > > > > I'm also very interested in the ecosystem of not-for-profit education > > and > > > > I think this project would be a great fit. > > > > > > > > Craig > > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2019, at 5:49 AM, Lars Francke > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I've been going back and forth on the topic of TLP vs. Incubator > > > podling. > > > > > > > > > > I don't really have a strong opinion
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Dmitry, Kenneth, sorry for the slow replies. I was offline on vacation for a few days. I'll add both of you to the Wiki (if you haven't already done so). I love that we have gathered quite a few interested people to participate already but I'd love to hear more (or any really) opinions on the proposal itself as well as the route it should go. I'm now leaning in favor of straight-to-TLP. I know we don't have any fixed duration for DISCUSS threads and discussion has died down but I don't really want to close it yet so I'll wait at least until the end of the week before starting any potential next steps. > I'm not a professional teacher or trainer, but I have been a part of preparing and delivering a number of trainings and talks (also the usual teaching, tutoring, talking in grad school FWIW) and I love it. I assume (haven't checked) that this is the background of most of us. It certainly is mine as well. So that should not be a problem at all! Cheers, Lars On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 9:22 PM Kenneth Knowles wrote: > Hi Lars, > > I would like to be a part of this too, according to your & the others' best > judgment. I'm PMC at Beam & incubator. One of my favorite things about Beam that keeps > me working on it is that it is a natural integration point of lots of > different Apache projects both as data processing engines (Spark, Flink, > Apex, Samza, Tez, Storm, incubating Nemo, ex-incubating Gearpump, ...) used > by Beam users and also data stores (Cassandra, HBase, Hadoop, Tika, Hive, > ...) they want to read/write from. So our trainings are already basically > cross-project Apache-focused material and it would be great > cross-pollination. We often have to help users configure their Spark & > Flink clusters, etc. > > Kenn > > On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 2:04 AM Dmitriy Pavlov wrote: > > > Hi Lars, > > > > I'd like to be a part of this. I'm PMC at Apache Ignite. Sometimes I need > > to give individual feedback to developers related to both Apache policies > > and spirit of developing software in a community way. Why not invest > effort > > into training and education materials instead? > > > > I gave several talks in Russia related to The Apache Software Foundation > > and > > blog about The Apache Way. I also assist newcomers joining Apache Ignite. > > So count on my support, and I definitely would like to became committer > at > > Training. > > > > Sincerely, > > Dmitriy Pavlov > > > > ср, 30 янв. 2019 г. в 01:25, Lars Francke : > > > > > Craig, > > > > > > that's great news. Thank you for volunteering. I've added you to the > > Wiki. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Lars > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 11:01 PM Craig Russell > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Lars, > > > > > > > > I'll volunteer to mentor the project if it ends up incubating. And > I'd > > > > like to join the discussion as a member of the (P)PMC. The idea of an > > > open > > > > source project to help rationalize training materials is very > > appealing. > > > > > > > > I'm also very interested in the ecosystem of not-for-profit education > > and > > > > I think this project would be a great fit. > > > > > > > > Craig > > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2019, at 5:49 AM, Lars Francke > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I've been going back and forth on the topic of TLP vs. Incubator > > > podling. > > > > > > > > > > I don't really have a strong opinion but I'm leaning slightly in > > favor > > > of > > > > > "straight to TLP" and the past discussion (linked in previous mail) > > did > > > > > also have more voices in favor of TLP. But of course there are > > > arguments > > > > to > > > > > be made for both sides. > > > > > > > > > > I've been wondering if anyone here has opinions on this part of the > > > > > proposal? > > > > > > > > > > In a related thread I asked about how to proceed in terms of > choosing > > > > > members for a PMC and one suggestion was to make it depend on the > > > route: > > > > > > > > > > * Incubator: On graduation ask and assess current PMC members and > see > > > if > > > > > everyone has proven their merit and is willing to continue > > > > > * TLP: Start with a PMC consisting of only ASF members (plus > > additional > > > > > committers) and then accept additional members for the PMC on a > > > "normal" > > > > > basis > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Lars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 1:49 PM Lars Francke < > lars.fran...@gmail.com > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Hello everyone, > > > > >> > > > > >> this is the result of the discussion I started in December > 2018[1]. > > > > >> > > > > >> I would like to start this thread to get feedback on a proposal > > we've > > > > been > > > > >> working on for a project focused on developing training material > for > > > > Apache > > > > >> & 3rd party projects. > > > > >> > > > > >> The full proposal can be found here < > > > > >> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal> > > > > >> > > > > >> Disclaimer: It is a bit
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Hi Lars, I would like to be a part of this too, according to your & the others' best judgment. I'm PMC at Beam & incubator. I'm not a professional teacher or trainer, but I have been a part of preparing and delivering a number of trainings and talks (also the usual teaching, tutoring, talking in grad school FWIW) and I love it. One of my favorite things about Beam that keeps me working on it is that it is a natural integration point of lots of different Apache projects both as data processing engines (Spark, Flink, Apex, Samza, Tez, Storm, incubating Nemo, ex-incubating Gearpump, ...) used by Beam users and also data stores (Cassandra, HBase, Hadoop, Tika, Hive, ...) they want to read/write from. So our trainings are already basically cross-project Apache-focused material and it would be great cross-pollination. We often have to help users configure their Spark & Flink clusters, etc. Kenn On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 2:04 AM Dmitriy Pavlov wrote: > Hi Lars, > > I'd like to be a part of this. I'm PMC at Apache Ignite. Sometimes I need > to give individual feedback to developers related to both Apache policies > and spirit of developing software in a community way. Why not invest effort > into training and education materials instead? > > I gave several talks in Russia related to The Apache Software Foundation > and > blog about The Apache Way. I also assist newcomers joining Apache Ignite. > So count on my support, and I definitely would like to became committer at > Training. > > Sincerely, > Dmitriy Pavlov > > ср, 30 янв. 2019 г. в 01:25, Lars Francke : > > > Craig, > > > > that's great news. Thank you for volunteering. I've added you to the > Wiki. > > > > Cheers, > > Lars > > > > On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 11:01 PM Craig Russell > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Lars, > > > > > > I'll volunteer to mentor the project if it ends up incubating. And I'd > > > like to join the discussion as a member of the (P)PMC. The idea of an > > open > > > source project to help rationalize training materials is very > appealing. > > > > > > I'm also very interested in the ecosystem of not-for-profit education > and > > > I think this project would be a great fit. > > > > > > Craig > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 2019, at 5:49 AM, Lars Francke > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I've been going back and forth on the topic of TLP vs. Incubator > > podling. > > > > > > > > I don't really have a strong opinion but I'm leaning slightly in > favor > > of > > > > "straight to TLP" and the past discussion (linked in previous mail) > did > > > > also have more voices in favor of TLP. But of course there are > > arguments > > > to > > > > be made for both sides. > > > > > > > > I've been wondering if anyone here has opinions on this part of the > > > > proposal? > > > > > > > > In a related thread I asked about how to proceed in terms of choosing > > > > members for a PMC and one suggestion was to make it depend on the > > route: > > > > > > > > * Incubator: On graduation ask and assess current PMC members and see > > if > > > > everyone has proven their merit and is willing to continue > > > > * TLP: Start with a PMC consisting of only ASF members (plus > additional > > > > committers) and then accept additional members for the PMC on a > > "normal" > > > > basis > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Lars > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 1:49 PM Lars Francke > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Hello everyone, > > > >> > > > >> this is the result of the discussion I started in December 2018[1]. > > > >> > > > >> I would like to start this thread to get feedback on a proposal > we've > > > been > > > >> working on for a project focused on developing training material for > > > Apache > > > >> & 3rd party projects. > > > >> > > > >> The full proposal can be found here < > > > >> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal> > > > >> > > > >> Disclaimer: It is a bit different than most other proposals as it > > > >> basically starts at zero. > > > >> > > > >> Our main goals for this discussion are: > > > >> * Finding mentors and interested contributors > > > >> * Discuss whether this should be a Incubator project, straight to > TLP > > > or a > > > >> Central Service > > > >> * Sharpen the scope of the project > > > >> > > > >> While I personally have a relatively long history as a contributor, > > > >> committer etc. at Apache I've never been a mentor before so we would > > > love > > > >> for some experienced people to help us out. > > > >> > > > >> We're looking forward to all kinds of feedback. > > > >> > > > >> Cheers, > > > >> Lars > > > >> > > > >> [1] < > > > >> > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > Craig L Russell > > > c...@apache.org > > > > > > > > > - > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > For
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Hi Lars, I'd like to be a part of this. I'm PMC at Apache Ignite. Sometimes I need to give individual feedback to developers related to both Apache policies and spirit of developing software in a community way. Why not invest effort into training and education materials instead? I gave several talks in Russia related to The Apache Software Foundation and blog about The Apache Way. I also assist newcomers joining Apache Ignite. So count on my support, and I definitely would like to became committer at Training. Sincerely, Dmitriy Pavlov ср, 30 янв. 2019 г. в 01:25, Lars Francke : > Craig, > > that's great news. Thank you for volunteering. I've added you to the Wiki. > > Cheers, > Lars > > On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 11:01 PM Craig Russell > wrote: > > > Hi Lars, > > > > I'll volunteer to mentor the project if it ends up incubating. And I'd > > like to join the discussion as a member of the (P)PMC. The idea of an > open > > source project to help rationalize training materials is very appealing. > > > > I'm also very interested in the ecosystem of not-for-profit education and > > I think this project would be a great fit. > > > > Craig > > > > > On Jan 28, 2019, at 5:49 AM, Lars Francke > > wrote: > > > > > > I've been going back and forth on the topic of TLP vs. Incubator > podling. > > > > > > I don't really have a strong opinion but I'm leaning slightly in favor > of > > > "straight to TLP" and the past discussion (linked in previous mail) did > > > also have more voices in favor of TLP. But of course there are > arguments > > to > > > be made for both sides. > > > > > > I've been wondering if anyone here has opinions on this part of the > > > proposal? > > > > > > In a related thread I asked about how to proceed in terms of choosing > > > members for a PMC and one suggestion was to make it depend on the > route: > > > > > > * Incubator: On graduation ask and assess current PMC members and see > if > > > everyone has proven their merit and is willing to continue > > > * TLP: Start with a PMC consisting of only ASF members (plus additional > > > committers) and then accept additional members for the PMC on a > "normal" > > > basis > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Lars > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 1:49 PM Lars Francke > > wrote: > > > > > >> Hello everyone, > > >> > > >> this is the result of the discussion I started in December 2018[1]. > > >> > > >> I would like to start this thread to get feedback on a proposal we've > > been > > >> working on for a project focused on developing training material for > > Apache > > >> & 3rd party projects. > > >> > > >> The full proposal can be found here < > > >> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal> > > >> > > >> Disclaimer: It is a bit different than most other proposals as it > > >> basically starts at zero. > > >> > > >> Our main goals for this discussion are: > > >> * Finding mentors and interested contributors > > >> * Discuss whether this should be a Incubator project, straight to TLP > > or a > > >> Central Service > > >> * Sharpen the scope of the project > > >> > > >> While I personally have a relatively long history as a contributor, > > >> committer etc. at Apache I've never been a mentor before so we would > > love > > >> for some experienced people to help us out. > > >> > > >> We're looking forward to all kinds of feedback. > > >> > > >> Cheers, > > >> Lars > > >> > > >> [1] < > > >> > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > > >>> > > >> > > > > Craig L Russell > > c...@apache.org > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Craig, that's great news. Thank you for volunteering. I've added you to the Wiki. Cheers, Lars On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 11:01 PM Craig Russell wrote: > Hi Lars, > > I'll volunteer to mentor the project if it ends up incubating. And I'd > like to join the discussion as a member of the (P)PMC. The idea of an open > source project to help rationalize training materials is very appealing. > > I'm also very interested in the ecosystem of not-for-profit education and > I think this project would be a great fit. > > Craig > > > On Jan 28, 2019, at 5:49 AM, Lars Francke > wrote: > > > > I've been going back and forth on the topic of TLP vs. Incubator podling. > > > > I don't really have a strong opinion but I'm leaning slightly in favor of > > "straight to TLP" and the past discussion (linked in previous mail) did > > also have more voices in favor of TLP. But of course there are arguments > to > > be made for both sides. > > > > I've been wondering if anyone here has opinions on this part of the > > proposal? > > > > In a related thread I asked about how to proceed in terms of choosing > > members for a PMC and one suggestion was to make it depend on the route: > > > > * Incubator: On graduation ask and assess current PMC members and see if > > everyone has proven their merit and is willing to continue > > * TLP: Start with a PMC consisting of only ASF members (plus additional > > committers) and then accept additional members for the PMC on a "normal" > > basis > > > > Cheers, > > Lars > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 1:49 PM Lars Francke > wrote: > > > >> Hello everyone, > >> > >> this is the result of the discussion I started in December 2018[1]. > >> > >> I would like to start this thread to get feedback on a proposal we've > been > >> working on for a project focused on developing training material for > Apache > >> & 3rd party projects. > >> > >> The full proposal can be found here < > >> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal> > >> > >> Disclaimer: It is a bit different than most other proposals as it > >> basically starts at zero. > >> > >> Our main goals for this discussion are: > >> * Finding mentors and interested contributors > >> * Discuss whether this should be a Incubator project, straight to TLP > or a > >> Central Service > >> * Sharpen the scope of the project > >> > >> While I personally have a relatively long history as a contributor, > >> committer etc. at Apache I've never been a mentor before so we would > love > >> for some experienced people to help us out. > >> > >> We're looking forward to all kinds of feedback. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Lars > >> > >> [1] < > >> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > >>> > >> > > Craig L Russell > c...@apache.org > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Hi Lars, I'll volunteer to mentor the project if it ends up incubating. And I'd like to join the discussion as a member of the (P)PMC. The idea of an open source project to help rationalize training materials is very appealing. I'm also very interested in the ecosystem of not-for-profit education and I think this project would be a great fit. Craig > On Jan 28, 2019, at 5:49 AM, Lars Francke wrote: > > I've been going back and forth on the topic of TLP vs. Incubator podling. > > I don't really have a strong opinion but I'm leaning slightly in favor of > "straight to TLP" and the past discussion (linked in previous mail) did > also have more voices in favor of TLP. But of course there are arguments to > be made for both sides. > > I've been wondering if anyone here has opinions on this part of the > proposal? > > In a related thread I asked about how to proceed in terms of choosing > members for a PMC and one suggestion was to make it depend on the route: > > * Incubator: On graduation ask and assess current PMC members and see if > everyone has proven their merit and is willing to continue > * TLP: Start with a PMC consisting of only ASF members (plus additional > committers) and then accept additional members for the PMC on a "normal" > basis > > Cheers, > Lars > > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 1:49 PM Lars Francke wrote: > >> Hello everyone, >> >> this is the result of the discussion I started in December 2018[1]. >> >> I would like to start this thread to get feedback on a proposal we've been >> working on for a project focused on developing training material for Apache >> & 3rd party projects. >> >> The full proposal can be found here < >> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal> >> >> Disclaimer: It is a bit different than most other proposals as it >> basically starts at zero. >> >> Our main goals for this discussion are: >> * Finding mentors and interested contributors >> * Discuss whether this should be a Incubator project, straight to TLP or a >> Central Service >> * Sharpen the scope of the project >> >> While I personally have a relatively long history as a contributor, >> committer etc. at Apache I've never been a mentor before so we would love >> for some experienced people to help us out. >> >> We're looking forward to all kinds of feedback. >> >> Cheers, >> Lars >> >> [1] < >> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E >>> >> Craig L Russell c...@apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
I've been going back and forth on the topic of TLP vs. Incubator podling. I don't really have a strong opinion but I'm leaning slightly in favor of "straight to TLP" and the past discussion (linked in previous mail) did also have more voices in favor of TLP. But of course there are arguments to be made for both sides. I've been wondering if anyone here has opinions on this part of the proposal? In a related thread I asked about how to proceed in terms of choosing members for a PMC and one suggestion was to make it depend on the route: * Incubator: On graduation ask and assess current PMC members and see if everyone has proven their merit and is willing to continue * TLP: Start with a PMC consisting of only ASF members (plus additional committers) and then accept additional members for the PMC on a "normal" basis Cheers, Lars On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 1:49 PM Lars Francke wrote: > Hello everyone, > > this is the result of the discussion I started in December 2018[1]. > > I would like to start this thread to get feedback on a proposal we've been > working on for a project focused on developing training material for Apache > & 3rd party projects. > > The full proposal can be found here < > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal> > > Disclaimer: It is a bit different than most other proposals as it > basically starts at zero. > > Our main goals for this discussion are: > * Finding mentors and interested contributors > * Discuss whether this should be a Incubator project, straight to TLP or a > Central Service > * Sharpen the scope of the project > > While I personally have a relatively long history as a contributor, > committer etc. at Apache I've never been a mentor before so we would love > for some experienced people to help us out. > > We're looking forward to all kinds of feedback. > > Cheers, > Lars > > [1] < > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Sharan, great! I've added you to the Wiki. Cheers, Lars On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 10:51 PM Sharan Foga wrote: > Hi Lars > > I'd like to be a part of this, not only from a ComDev perspective, as this > project and its resources would be a great asset for the community > development effort (internally and externally), but also because I have an > real interest in developing documentation and training material. > > So I'd be happy to be involved. > > Thanks > Sharan > > On 2019/01/25 12:49:01, Lars Francke wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > > > this is the result of the discussion I started in December 2018[1]. > > > > I would like to start this thread to get feedback on a proposal we've > been > > working on for a project focused on developing training material for > Apache > > & 3rd party projects. > > > > The full proposal can be found here < > > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal> > > > > Disclaimer: It is a bit different than most other proposals as it > basically > > starts at zero. > > > > Our main goals for this discussion are: > > * Finding mentors and interested contributors > > * Discuss whether this should be a Incubator project, straight to TLP or > a > > Central Service > > * Sharpen the scope of the project > > > > While I personally have a relatively long history as a contributor, > > committer etc. at Apache I've never been a mentor before so we would love > > for some experienced people to help us out. > > > > We're looking forward to all kinds of feedback. > > > > Cheers, > > Lars > > > > [1] < > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > > > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Hi Lars I'd like to be a part of this, not only from a ComDev perspective, as this project and its resources would be a great asset for the community development effort (internally and externally), but also because I have an real interest in developing documentation and training material. So I'd be happy to be involved. Thanks Sharan On 2019/01/25 12:49:01, Lars Francke wrote: > Hello everyone, > > this is the result of the discussion I started in December 2018[1]. > > I would like to start this thread to get feedback on a proposal we've been > working on for a project focused on developing training material for Apache > & 3rd party projects. > > The full proposal can be found here < > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal> > > Disclaimer: It is a bit different than most other proposals as it basically > starts at zero. > > Our main goals for this discussion are: > * Finding mentors and interested contributors > * Discuss whether this should be a Incubator project, straight to TLP or a > Central Service > * Sharpen the scope of the project > > While I personally have a relatively long history as a contributor, > committer etc. at Apache I've never been a mentor before so we would love > for some experienced people to help us out. > > We're looking forward to all kinds of feedback. > > Cheers, > Lars > > [1] < > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Hi Mike, there is not really a specific target group for these trainings. It is our feeling, that there are a large number of parties out there that could benefit from properly maintained training materials for open source software. We noticed a few issues around training when talking to other companies recently, that sparked the idea for this proposal. - Writing training material is hard and takes time - Keeping training material up to date is even harder - Everybody has the same tooling issues (i.e. how to keep Powerpoints under version control) around this The cumulative effort for those items is quite often too large for all but the largest companies, because usually you just spend time on this when someone pays for a training. So our intention is for this project to become a platform for trainings on all kinds of topics - probably mostly on specific software projects, but I see no reason why there should not be a training on for example "The Apache way" as well. So in summary, your answer "it is all of that" probably was correct :) I hope that helps, of not, please don't hesitate to get back to us! Best regards, Sönke I think your anwer "it is all of that" best fits our intentions :) On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 11:32 PM Michael Wall wrote: > > Lars, > > Interesting proposal. Can you talk more about who this training is for? I > can't tell if it is for internal use, like helping new mentors and PMC > Chairs, or external use like teaching companies how the ASF does business > or how to use a specific Apache project. Maybe it is all of that. > > Thanks > > Mike > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 7:49 AM Lars Francke wrote: > > > Hello everyone, > > > > this is the result of the discussion I started in December 2018[1]. > > > > I would like to start this thread to get feedback on a proposal we've been > > working on for a project focused on developing training material for Apache > > & 3rd party projects. > > > > The full proposal can be found here < > > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal> > > > > Disclaimer: It is a bit different than most other proposals as it basically > > starts at zero. > > > > Our main goals for this discussion are: > > * Finding mentors and interested contributors > > * Discuss whether this should be a Incubator project, straight to TLP or a > > Central Service > > * Sharpen the scope of the project > > > > While I personally have a relatively long history as a contributor, > > committer etc. at Apache I've never been a mentor before so we would love > > for some experienced people to help us out. > > > > We're looking forward to all kinds of feedback. > > > > Cheers, > > Lars > > > > [1] < > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > > > > > -- Sönke Liebau Partner Tel. +49 179 7940878 OpenCore GmbH & Co. KG - Thomas-Mann-Straße 8 - 22880 Wedel - Germany - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Lars, Interesting proposal. Can you talk more about who this training is for? I can't tell if it is for internal use, like helping new mentors and PMC Chairs, or external use like teaching companies how the ASF does business or how to use a specific Apache project. Maybe it is all of that. Thanks Mike On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 7:49 AM Lars Francke wrote: > Hello everyone, > > this is the result of the discussion I started in December 2018[1]. > > I would like to start this thread to get feedback on a proposal we've been > working on for a project focused on developing training material for Apache > & 3rd party projects. > > The full proposal can be found here < > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal> > > Disclaimer: It is a bit different than most other proposals as it basically > starts at zero. > > Our main goals for this discussion are: > * Finding mentors and interested contributors > * Discuss whether this should be a Incubator project, straight to TLP or a > Central Service > * Sharpen the scope of the project > > While I personally have a relatively long history as a contributor, > committer etc. at Apache I've never been a mentor before so we would love > for some experienced people to help us out. > > We're looking forward to all kinds of feedback. > > Cheers, > Lars > > [1] < > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
> > thank you! I'm not at home right now and can't edit the Wiki now but I'll > do so later (or you'll do it yourself)? > I have added you to the Wiki now. > Your mail actually sparked a thought. I'm not sure about the "limits" to > an initial contributor/committer list and how to go about selecting those. > I'm in no position to judge anyone on this list but do I even need to just > because I've written the proposal? I guess usually it's easier when you > start with an existing codebase because you can just pick past contributors > and new ones have to prove themselves in the normal ways. Here it's a bit > different. > > I'll start a separate thread about this. > > Cheers, > Lars > > On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 4:17 PM Furkan KAMACI > wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I'm a member of The Apache Software Foundation, PMC member of Apache >> Incubator, Committer and PMC member of Apache Gora, Committer and PMC >> member of Apache Nutch, Committer and PMC member of Apache Clerezza, >> Committer of Apache ManifoldCF, Committer of Apache Stanbol and mail list >> moderator of Apache Solr. I'm also a member of W3C (World Wide Web >> Consortium). >> >> I have a work experience +10 years including companies as like >> Alcatel-Lucent/Nokia and has an academical background. Currently, I have a >> company named as LAGOM which works on Big Data and Machine Learning and >> contributes to open source projects. >> >> I am a blogger and public speaker about Open Source Development. I would >> like to share my experiences and be on the (P)PMC/initial committer list >> too. >> >> Kind Regards, >> Furkan KAMACI >> >> On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 6:04 PM Lars Francke >> wrote: >> >> > Justin, >> > >> > that's great to hear. And yes please. I'll add you to the Wiki. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Lars >> > >> > On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 12:35 AM Justin Mclean < >> jus...@classsoftware.com> >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Hi, >> > > >> > > I’ll comment on the other parts of the proposal once I’ve thought >> about >> > it >> > > a bit, but I’m also have a decent amount of training and course >> creation >> > > experience and would like to be on the (P)PMC / initial committer >> list if >> > > you'll have me. Assuming you go down the IPMC I’d also happy to be a >> > > mentor. I also have some material I can donate around the Apache Way >> and >> > > the Incubator. >> > > >> > > JFYI I’m currently teaching at a university (on computational design) >> and >> > > teaching/assessing at an online collage 2 1/2 days a week on >> > programming. I >> > > finished a qualification in teaching last year and starting another >> one >> > in >> > > a month time. >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > Justin >> > > - >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> > > >> > > >> > >> >
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Furkan, thank you! I'm not at home right now and can't edit the Wiki now but I'll do so later (or you'll do it yourself)? Your mail actually sparked a thought. I'm not sure about the "limits" to an initial contributor/committer list and how to go about selecting those. I'm in no position to judge anyone on this list but do I even need to just because I've written the proposal? I guess usually it's easier when you start with an existing codebase because you can just pick past contributors and new ones have to prove themselves in the normal ways. Here it's a bit different. I'll start a separate thread about this. Cheers, Lars On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 4:17 PM Furkan KAMACI wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm a member of The Apache Software Foundation, PMC member of Apache > Incubator, Committer and PMC member of Apache Gora, Committer and PMC > member of Apache Nutch, Committer and PMC member of Apache Clerezza, > Committer of Apache ManifoldCF, Committer of Apache Stanbol and mail list > moderator of Apache Solr. I'm also a member of W3C (World Wide Web > Consortium). > > I have a work experience +10 years including companies as like > Alcatel-Lucent/Nokia and has an academical background. Currently, I have a > company named as LAGOM which works on Big Data and Machine Learning and > contributes to open source projects. > > I am a blogger and public speaker about Open Source Development. I would > like to share my experiences and be on the (P)PMC/initial committer list > too. > > Kind Regards, > Furkan KAMACI > > On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 6:04 PM Lars Francke > wrote: > > > Justin, > > > > that's great to hear. And yes please. I'll add you to the Wiki. > > > > Cheers, > > Lars > > > > On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 12:35 AM Justin Mclean > > > wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I’ll comment on the other parts of the proposal once I’ve thought about > > it > > > a bit, but I’m also have a decent amount of training and course > creation > > > experience and would like to be on the (P)PMC / initial committer list > if > > > you'll have me. Assuming you go down the IPMC I’d also happy to be a > > > mentor. I also have some material I can donate around the Apache Way > and > > > the Incubator. > > > > > > JFYI I’m currently teaching at a university (on computational design) > and > > > teaching/assessing at an online collage 2 1/2 days a week on > > programming. I > > > finished a qualification in teaching last year and starting another one > > in > > > a month time. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Justin > > > - > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Hi All, I'm a member of The Apache Software Foundation, PMC member of Apache Incubator, Committer and PMC member of Apache Gora, Committer and PMC member of Apache Nutch, Committer and PMC member of Apache Clerezza, Committer of Apache ManifoldCF, Committer of Apache Stanbol and mail list moderator of Apache Solr. I'm also a member of W3C (World Wide Web Consortium). I have a work experience +10 years including companies as like Alcatel-Lucent/Nokia and has an academical background. Currently, I have a company named as LAGOM which works on Big Data and Machine Learning and contributes to open source projects. I am a blogger and public speaker about Open Source Development. I would like to share my experiences and be on the (P)PMC/initial committer list too. Kind Regards, Furkan KAMACI On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 6:04 PM Lars Francke wrote: > Justin, > > that's great to hear. And yes please. I'll add you to the Wiki. > > Cheers, > Lars > > On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 12:35 AM Justin Mclean > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I’ll comment on the other parts of the proposal once I’ve thought about > it > > a bit, but I’m also have a decent amount of training and course creation > > experience and would like to be on the (P)PMC / initial committer list if > > you'll have me. Assuming you go down the IPMC I’d also happy to be a > > mentor. I also have some material I can donate around the Apache Way and > > the Incubator. > > > > JFYI I’m currently teaching at a university (on computational design) and > > teaching/assessing at an online collage 2 1/2 days a week on > programming. I > > finished a qualification in teaching last year and starting another one > in > > a month time. > > > > Thanks, > > Justin > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Justin, that's great to hear. And yes please. I'll add you to the Wiki. Cheers, Lars On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 12:35 AM Justin Mclean wrote: > Hi, > > I’ll comment on the other parts of the proposal once I’ve thought about it > a bit, but I’m also have a decent amount of training and course creation > experience and would like to be on the (P)PMC / initial committer list if > you'll have me. Assuming you go down the IPMC I’d also happy to be a > mentor. I also have some material I can donate around the Apache Way and > the Incubator. > > JFYI I’m currently teaching at a university (on computational design) and > teaching/assessing at an online collage 2 1/2 days a week on programming. I > finished a qualification in teaching last year and starting another one in > a month time. > > Thanks, > Justin > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
+1 for Justin On Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 18:35 Justin Mclean Hi, > > I’ll comment on the other parts of the proposal once I’ve thought about it > a bit, but I’m also have a decent amount of training and course creation > experience and would like to be on the (P)PMC / initial committer list if > you'll have me. Assuming you go down the IPMC I’d also happy to be a > mentor. I also have some material I can donate around the Apache Way and > the Incubator. > > JFYI I’m currently teaching at a university (on computational design) and > teaching/assessing at an online collage 2 1/2 days a week on programming. I > finished a qualification in teaching last year and starting another one in > a month time. > > Thanks, > Justin > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Hi, I’ll comment on the other parts of the proposal once I’ve thought about it a bit, but I’m also have a decent amount of training and course creation experience and would like to be on the (P)PMC / initial committer list if you'll have me. Assuming you go down the IPMC I’d also happy to be a mentor. I also have some material I can donate around the Apache Way and the Incubator. JFYI I’m currently teaching at a university (on computational design) and teaching/assessing at an online collage 2 1/2 days a week on programming. I finished a qualification in teaching last year and starting another one in a month time. Thanks, Justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
[DISCUSS] Training (incubating) Proposal
Hello everyone, this is the result of the discussion I started in December 2018[1]. I would like to start this thread to get feedback on a proposal we've been working on for a project focused on developing training material for Apache & 3rd party projects. The full proposal can be found here < https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TrainingProposal> Disclaimer: It is a bit different than most other proposals as it basically starts at zero. Our main goals for this discussion are: * Finding mentors and interested contributors * Discuss whether this should be a Incubator project, straight to TLP or a Central Service * Sharpen the scope of the project While I personally have a relatively long history as a contributor, committer etc. at Apache I've never been a mentor before so we would love for some experienced people to help us out. We're looking forward to all kinds of feedback. Cheers, Lars [1] < https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9cb4d7eef73e0d526e0124944c3d37325aa892675351a1eed0a25de3@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E >
