Why use maillists??

2004-04-16 Thread bill_rules
Hi,
why does the Apache/Jakarta project still uses maillist?
It's a technology that was used before the invention of WWW.
Everyone get's your eMail address, therefore you get spammed all the time
the and it's very inconvenient to use.

Every student homepage has got it's own forum now, so why not
Apache/Jakarta??
I think this prooves again that Open Source is still a geek project and far
away from a professional managed software project.

Cheers

Stefan

-- 
NEU : GMX Internet.FreeDSL
Ab sofort DSL-Tarif ohne Grundgeb├╝hr: http://www.gmx.net/info


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Re: Why use maillists??

2004-04-16 Thread Danny Angus






 why does the Apache/Jakarta project still uses maillist?
 It's a technology that was used before the invention of WWW.

And boy does it ever work!
I've worked on a number of commercial projects which are managed in a
similar way to accomodate dispersed teams.
It works, we like it, get used to it.

 Everyone get's your eMail address, therefore you get spammed all the time
 the and it's very inconvenient to use.

Use gmane for a mail to news gateway.

 Every student homepage has got it's own forum now, so why not
 Apache/Jakarta??

Because of all the alternatives you might have chosen forums *really*
suck.

 I think this prooves again that Open Source is still a geek project and
far
 away from a professional managed software project.

There are two views to this, one is that many, many, professionally managed
software projects count Apache amongst their role models for team
management, in fact some of the most commercial and largest software
companies in the world are having to adopt a managerial approach similar to
OS project management in order to compete.

The other view is that OS is indeed about geek projects, thats the point,
pointy haired bosses can't write software, pointy haired bosses make us
write bad software by adding irrelevant distractions like deadlines and
dumb requirements.

OTOH any pointy haired boss who has a valuable contribution to make can
turn up and make it. If it is of any genuine value it will probably be
adopted, and they can be elected onto a project as commiters. We probably
have quite a few, busily writing software for Apache and keeping their
pointy haired nonsense for their day jobs ;-)

d.



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Re: Why use maillists??

2004-04-16 Thread Shane Curcuru
A couple of other reasons to supplement Danny's reply:

-- Because they're easy to use at one level, and they're the lowest common 
denominator.  Everyone (well, nearly) has an email account, and can read 
and respond to mailing lists.  We have some contributors who still live 
over part-time dial-up accounts - making browsing fancy web forums a 
pain.  But email's easy to send.

-- Because it stores a record of the decisions the community makes.  Having 
this history in archives is invaluable, especially one that doesn't change 
(like most wiki's do).  The best kind of Apache project isn't about the 
latest code or the coolest programmer - it's about a collaborative 
community that works together - even when some people leave, there's enough 
of a community to continue the project.

-- Because it's the Apache Way.  Not that we have this written down 
anywhere in an agreed fashion, but both due to tradition, ease of use, and 
board mandate, mailing lists are the official way to conduct most business 
on any Apache project (and there are many more besides jakarta).

It's not really a technical question - it's more an organizational and 
community question.  8-)

- Shane

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Re: Why use maillists??

2004-04-16 Thread J Aaron Farr
Quoting Shane Curcuru [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 A couple of other reasons to supplement Danny's reply:

And one or two of my own:

 * Mailing lists are a push technology.  Forums are more pull.  That means I
can get the mailing list updates sent to me without having to do anything. 
Forums require me to regularly check the website and see what's new.

 * Mailing lists let me browse everything quickly.  Each email (or at least the
subject title) passes by my eyes.  I don't have to dig around in a web site and
perhaps miss something because I didn't click on one last link.

 * Mailing list allow time-shifting of the discussion.  This means I can reply
to an email sent a few days ago.  Forums also allow this, but things like IRC
channels do not.

That's not that mailing lists are perfect.  The archives are often hard to
search through and it's easy for good bits of information to get lost.  It would
be nice to be able to incorporate more of the information in on the mailing list
into the website documentation (which a forum allows).  Right now a reasonable
solution is to make sure you copy and paste good mailing list replies into the
community wiki.

Things like Gmane which give you newsgroup access to mailing lists are *very*
nice and solve some of the drawbacks to mailing lists.

Finally, Jakarta did have forums at one time but I don't think they were heavily
used:

  http://issues.apache.org/jive/index.jsp


---
  jaaron  http://jadetower.org

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Re: Why use maillists??

2004-04-16 Thread Serge Knystautas
J Aaron Farr wrote:
Finally, Jakarta did have forums at one time but I don't think they were heavily
used:
  http://issues.apache.org/jive/index.jsp
IMO this is the best point.  Open source projects get to try dozens of 
different communication patterns (IM, IRC, NNTP, personal email, Forums, 
Wikis, mailing lists, phone calls, CVS, bugzilla, etc...).

Mailing lists have emerged as the most effective means for open source 
development.

--
Serge Knystautas
President
Lokitech  software . strategy . design  http://www.lokitech.com
p. 301.656.5501
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