Re: Binaries in CVS
At 18:44 12.04.2001 -0700, Craig R. McClanahan wrote: On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Peter Donald wrote: At 08:16 12/4/01 -0400, Sam Ruby wrote: If you accept that you are in a world where interfaces that you are depending on change frequently, then the problem to solve is optimizing the communication paths. I don't accept that reality. I bet that 98% of the servlets out there would compile just fine against a version of servlet.jar that was built two years ago. I bet that 98% of these servlets will compile just fine against the version of servlet.jar that will be built two years from now. The same can not be said for applications which depend on avalon or turbine. Not two years, not one year, not six months, not three months. Heck, I doubt that 98% of the applications which depend on turbine would compile against the version of turbine that WAS BUILT LAST NIGHT. Welcome to opensource! Standards are not done here - we can implement them but we don't build them - for those please go elsewhere (IETF/W3C/JCP/Other). One of the advantages of opensource is people are free to adapt them to their own environments. Hence they do. If you want static versions go buy something from a major vendor. Even those generally do complete changes every major version (see MS and their DX1-8 or MFC versions). In a backhanded way, I agree with this sentiment -- open source is demonstrably good at creating great implementations, and not so good at creating specifications. I suspect this is partly/mostly because many open source developers rebel against the very disciplines that a "standard" implies. (If you want a fight, let's talk about where the curly braces should go on an "if" statement :-). But this also raises an issue of who are the "users" we are trying to make life easier for. More on this below. Gump doesn't solve these problems. Peter Donald has outsmarted it. I haven't outsmarted it. I solved the problem that was presented. You have failed to pose any other problem that would make me adjust my position - I want low cost of entry. Have a look at all the projects under apache umbrella. Now rate the activity of each project excluding people who get paid to directly work on products. Now correlate this with cost of entry (of which jars in CVS is a factor). Excluding ant for the moment what do you see? ... Which ones have more community behind them? Which ones store binaries in CVS? Coincidence?? ;) This paragraph begs for multiple responses, from different viewpoints (not necessarily building on each other): * How are you measuring "activity"? I would guess from your statement that you are talking about developers doing commits -- but what about they users who just want to USE your project in their own work and could give a rip about how the thing is built. By that measure, I would submit that Tomcat is far and away the most active Jakarta project, followed by Ant, followed by Struts, followed by everything else. (Check download counts and -USER list subscriptions and activity for corroborating evidence). Tomcat 3.x and Struts contains no checked in JARs, Tomcat 4 only has patched versions of the stupid JAXP sealed jars until the next version of JAXP fixes that for us. Are the stats available? If so, I would appreciate a pointer. Coming back to the number comparisons, I think that most jakarta projects are very popular compared to the thousands of open source projects out there. Log4j which is not as nearly as popular as tomcat, gets over 10'000 hits/day, a 2000-4000 visitors/day, and about 500 downloads each day, that's more than most open source projects get in a whole year. Although log4j is totally dwarfed by Tomcat which is probably the most popular Java application in the world today. The point to remember is that even if Tomcat included binaries in its CVS module, Tomcat would still be very popular, not more, not less. It is becoming increasingly clear to me that the inclusion of binaries in a CVS is a minor or even a negligible point. It begets heated debate but does not matter that much at the end of the day. What matters is the quality of the code, stability of the API and portability. * The number of binary distro downloads of most Jakarta projects is orders of magnitude more than the number of people who download source distros or update via CVS. Note that the popular packages for USERS include convenient "all in one" binary distributions, despite the fact that they don't use CVS to store JAR files. (Ant is sorta an exception - they offer two downloads (Ant and optional.jar) but you have to go grab everything else yourself). * There seems to be a theory that only people who build from source can contribute patches and enhancements. That is not borne out by experience on the projects I'm involved in, because the source code is there for examination anyway -- very large percentages of patches come
Re: Binaries in CVS
Ceki Glc wrote: It is becoming increasingly clear to me that the inclusion of binaries in a CVS is a minor or even a negligible point. It begets heated debate but does not matter that much at the end of the day. What matters is the quality of the code, stability of the API and portability. LOL! If you think this was a heated debate, then you really haven't been around here long! ;-) Apache in general, and Jakarta in specific tolerates a significant amount of diversity of opinions. Within a subproject, what matters most is the opinions of a majority of committers to that subproject. There are people who believe that Ant would have a more active development community if only it were to check in an ant.jar. There are people who believe that releases of JetSpeed and Turbine would not be so tied at the hip if turbine.jar weren't checked into jetspeed's cvs. The majority of committers on both projects understand the points that are being made, but have come to different conclusions. And life goes on. - Sam Ruby - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Binaries in CVS
On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: Sam Ruby wrote: Peter Donald wrote: The fact of the matter is you would contribute to it even if you had to pass the 12 heculean tests of power, jump tall buildings at lunch and beat deep blue on your breaks ... why ? It's your job. For the record, it is Craig's job because he did all the things you said, not the other way around. http://conferences.oreilly.com/java/sessions/bios.html Hey - Craig's picture :) And they list him as doing bizdev for 'DAT Services' Hmmm. I updated the bio information before the conference (DAT was my employer prior to Sun). They must be using a VB app or something -- the update never got committed :-). I'll try again. -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Developing for the web? See http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/ Craig - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Binaries in CVS
On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Ceki [iso-8859-1] Gülcü wrote: * How are you measuring "activity"? I would guess from your statement that you are talking about developers doing commits -- but what about they users who just want to USE your project in their own work and could give a rip about how the thing is built. By that measure, I would submit that Tomcat is far and away the most active Jakarta project, followed by Ant, followed by Struts, followed by everything else. (Check download counts and -USER list subscriptions and activity for corroborating evidence). Tomcat 3.x and Struts contains no checked in JARs, Tomcat 4 only has patched versions of the stupid JAXP sealed jars until the next version of JAXP fixes that for us. Are the stats available? If so, I would appreciate a pointer. For download counts, you have to go analyze the log files (and, of course, we're only counting downloads from daedalus -- not from mirrors). Tomcat runs in the 50k-100k downloads per month range -- having up to date stats would be quite nice. For mailing lists, the following are subscription counts as of this morning to the Jakarta-based mailing lists: alexandria -dev 65-user 57 announcements 4183 ant-dev 517-user 860 avalon -dev 104-user 22 ecs-dev 53-user 96 general 1165 jakarta-commons 72 james -dev 102-user 128 jetspeed -dev 153-user 202 jmeter -dev 45-user 71 log4j -dev 157-user 335 oro-dev 74-user 135 regexp -dev 97-user 156 slide -dev 193-user 283 struts -dev 610-user 1189 taglibs-dev 348-user 510 tomcat -dev 1082-user 2176 turbine-dev 190-user 304 velocity -dev 152-user 304 Craig - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta FAQ
on 4/12/01 8:14 PM, "Remy Maucherat" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'd like to get an account on the Jakarta FAQ. I read what is there : http://jakarta.apache.org:8080/jyve-faq/Turbine/screen/DisplayProjects I talked with Alex, but apparently the account activation failed, and I couldn't get in touch with him since. Could one of the roots help me out ? My login is remm. Thanks, Remy mysql update Visitor set confirm_value='CONFIRMED' where loginid='remm'; Query OK, 1 row affected (0.09 sec) Rows matched: 1 Changed: 1 Warnings: 0 -jon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Binaries in CVS
on 4/13/01 8:49 AM, "Craig R. McClanahan" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I updated the bio information before the conference (DAT was my employer prior to Sun). They must be using a VB app or something -- the update never got committed :-). I'll try again. No, they probably use JSP. :-) -jon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jakarta Contract
Hadyn Stiff@CAICORP 04/13/2001 12:58 PM Hello, Can anyone put me in touch with folks interested in contract work in Harrisburg, PA? I know of some needs here with the state government for folks with strong Jakarta experience to work on some of their newest web-enabled apps. It's a 9 month engagement, so if anyone knows someone who is interested, please point the person my way. Thanks, Hadyn Jon Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 04/13/2001 12:52:21 PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: Hadyn Stiff/CAICORP) Subject: Re: Jakarta FAQ on 4/12/01 8:14 PM, "Remy Maucherat" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'd like to get an account on the Jakarta FAQ. I read what is there : http://jakarta.apache.org:8080/jyve-faq/Turbine/screen/DisplayProjects I talked with Alex, but apparently the account activation failed, and I couldn't get in touch with him since. Could one of the roots help me out ? My login is remm. Thanks, Remy mysql update Visitor set confirm_value='CONFIRMED' where loginid='remm'; Query OK, 1 row affected (0.09 sec) Rows matched: 1 Changed: 1 Warnings: 0 -jon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Watchdog Binaries are very small(1K)
Hi, Can any one explain why the sizes of the watchdog binary .Z or .gz files are so small( 1K ). Here is the link for the quick reference: http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/jakarta-watchdog/nightly/ When I saw it in January, it was more than 2MB. Any ideas? Thanks, Srini - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: general Digest 12 Apr 2001 19:55:17 -0000 Issue 349
The two somewhat workable times are 1200 GMT and 2000 GMT. I'd like to hear opinions on the following two options: Sorry for the belated reply -- digest mode and 16 hour work days. Either time will work for me (I'm on EDT, which appears to get the best deal). daniel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mod_jk.so vs mod_jk.dll for Win32 and Apache 1.3.19
I currently use Apache1.3.14 + Tomcat 3.2.1 + mod_jk.dll on Win32. I recently tried to upgrade to Apache 1.3.19. When I try the LoadModule command in the server configuration file on mod_jk using the mod_jk.dll file the server would not start. If I comment out that one LoadModule command the server starts. I noticed in the Win32 version ALL the modules now have .so endings. Is this a change in the Win32 version. Do I need a mod_jk.so or different mod_jk.dll file for Win32? -Ellis Teer __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
