Re: [OT] Servlets better for most companies!

[Sam Ruby]

Kevin Burton wrote:
>
> It is totally illogical isn't it?  The only only explanation is one my
> grandfather put forth.  They are all masochists!

I have another theory.  Warning: you won't like it.

Try building jetspeed with turbine-3.

EJB and JSP may suck, but if you use them, you don't have to rewrite your
application every six months.

- Sam Ruby


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Re: [OT] Servlets better for most companies!

[Kevin A. Burton]

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Jon Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> on 8/23/01 4:23 PM, "Kevin A. Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Try convincing someone to use Torque instead of their $200,000 EJB
> > server  it is like trying to drive your hand through a 6' wall of
> > steel...
> 
> Or Torque instead of TopLink, which I'm hearing has 5/6 digit pricing now, and
> is very similar in API and features to Torque.
> 
> The mentality of these people is astonishing sometimes.

It is totally illogical isn't it?  The only only explanation is one my
grandfather put forth.  They are all masochists!

Kevin

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Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] )
Cell: 415-595-9965 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 

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becomes frozen: even so does inaction sap the vigors of the mind.
  -- Leonardo da Vinci
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Re: [OT] Servlets better for most companies!

[Jon Stevens]

on 8/23/01 4:23 PM, "Kevin A. Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Try convincing someone to use Torque instead of their $200,000 EJB server
> it
> is like trying to drive your hand through a 6' wall of steel...

Or Torque instead of TopLink, which I'm hearing has 5/6 digit pricing now,
and is very similar in API and features to Torque.

The mentality of these people is astonishing sometimes.

-jon


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Re: [OT] Servlets better for most companies!

[Kevin A. Burton]

Jon Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Sigh, I have been saying this for well over a year now...


> Companies wasted more than $1 billion between 1998 and 2000 on high-end
> Java application servers that provide far more capabilities than are
> needed on most Web sites, says research firm Gartner. And, if the trend
> continues, Gartner estimates that companies could throw away another $2
> billion from 2001 to 2003.


It is funny... I think that the problem is the typical pointy haired boss
syndrome.  You get these morons who get promoted outside of their level of
expertise and have to make a technical decision.  In order to justify their
salary they pick the most expensive technology available.  (look how smart I
am!)

Of course the CEO eats it up because he can brag to the investors that they
spent $500,000 on Oracle and EJB licensing... (because their technology is so
amazing)

ug...

The hard part is trying to convince someone that Apache technologies are
superior.  (these cost exactly $0.0)...

Try convincing someone to use Torque instead of their $200,000 EJB server it
is like trying to drive your hand through a 6' wall of steel...

ug...

Kevin

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Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] )
Cell: 415-595-9965 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 

Give a man a flame and keep him warm for the night. Set him on fire and keep
him warm for the rest of his life.

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[OT] Servlets better for most companies!

[Jon Stevens]

Sigh, I have been saying this for well over a year now...



Next I need to just convince people that JSP sucks and I'm sure that Gartner
will eventually write an article about it.

:-)

-jon

---
http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20010822S0001

Those damn expensive EJB servers!

$1B Wasted On High-End Servers, Gartner Says

Companies wasted more than $1 billion between 1998 and 2000 on high-end
Java application servers that provide far more capabilities than are
needed on most Web sites, says research firm Gartner. And, if the trend
continues, Gartner estimates that companies could throw away another $2
billion from 2001 to 2003.

Confusion over the appropriate use of the software needed to power Web
applications has led many companies to bypass low-end application
servers that meet most requirements and cost 10 times less than the
high-end products, Gartner says. In the last three years, the cheaper
models were sufficient for 80% of the projects in a typical midsize
company, yet 60% of the deployments were high-end.

Most business Web-site applications are focused on delivering content to
the user and are therefore best run on low-end products that support
servlets and Java Server Pages, technology best suited for those kinds
of applications. Examples of such application servers include Enhydra,
an open-source product; iPlanet Web Server from the Sun Microsystems/AOL
Time Warner alliance; WebLogic Express from BEA Systems; and WebSphere
Standard Edition from IBM.

High-end application servers are intended for large transaction volume
and, therefore, offer more advanced capabilities, such as load
balancing, fault tolerance, transaction management, and system
management. In addition, the expensive software typically supports the
Enterprise JavaBean component model and Java messaging architecture,
which are important for reusing application business logic across
various business processes and clients. Businesses should use a high-end
server handling transactions, back-end integration, and high volume in
conjunction with low-end products running less complicated applications.

"People need to take control and be responsible for their (computer)
architecture and the choices they make," says Gartner analyst David
Smith. "They need to understand that while they may have the requirement
to have the capability of EJB for one aspect, that doesn't mean that all
the different tiers in their system have to have the high-end
application server. They can use the low-end ones to do JSPs, servlets
and make calls to the EJB on the high-end one."

-- Antone Gonsalves 

-- End of Forwarded Message


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revised log4j APIs

[Ceki Gülcü]

Hello,

As this might be of wider interest I am sending this to the general
list. I have just started working on a revised log4j interface. An
*early* draft of the proposal is available at:

  http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/proposal.html

If you interested in the subject please send your comments on the
log4j-dev list. Please do not reply on this list. Regards, Ceki

--
Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch


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