Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Peter Donald
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:38, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Are you upset at the way Java is being handled by SUN? Do you feel lied to about the fact that SUN is still keeping Java proprietary even after they promised us for *years* that it would be standardized? Are you looking towards

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Arnaud Vandyck
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frankly Sun should learn from IBM model and start to sell services instead of just software. They already sell services :) -- Arnaud, STE-Formations Informatiques, fapse, ULg, .BE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands,

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Ted Husted
+1 Kevin A. Burton wrote: Heck no. .NET/c# why would I want to use an even more proprietary thing to get back at SUN? Heck no. ... hm.. this discussion could be on the list... buy anyway. -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Java Web Development with Struts. -- Tel +1

AW: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Juergen Fey
Hi, Java proves to be a reliable technology but some political questions are still open and some others - not all - are getting answered in the wrong direction. There could be a chance to discuss these things during the JavaOne next month. Perhaps at Jon`s new place which is not too far away

TomCat license

2002-02-05 Thread Kollr Dra
Dear Sir / Madame, My name is Dora Kollar and I am Presales Specialist at Noreg Ltd, Hungary. Noreg Information Protection Ltd. has been present on the Hungarian information protection market since 1998. Noreg provides a full scale information protection service for its customers. Besides the

Re: TomCat license

2002-02-05 Thread Ted Husted
The license for Tomcat, and all other Apache Software Foundation products, can be found here: http://apache.org/LICENSE Other questions regarding Tomcat can be directed to the Tomcat USER list. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html Kollár Dóra wrote: Dear Sir / Madame, My name is

FTP mirrors

2002-02-05 Thread Danny Angus
Hi, What would we need to do to get Jakarta mirrored alongside httpd, mod_perl etc. I've been setting up a few servers and ftp would be a real bonus. d. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [PROPOSAL] Jakarta-Meeting

2002-02-05 Thread Remy Maucherat
I wonder how people would feel about moving the actual PMC business to another list, like Jakarta-Meeting. It's obvious that we need a General list for open discussions, but I believe that it would be appropriate to have a public list focussed on the business of the PMC, being oversight of

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 03:14, Peter Donald wrote: On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:38, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Are you upset at the way Java is being handled by SUN? Do you feel lied to about the fact that SUN is still keeping Java proprietary even after they promised us for *years* that it

Re: [PROPOSAL] Jakarta-Meeting

2002-02-05 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
Provided the senate does not avoid the forum less they loose site of the plebs. -Andy On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 07:14, Ted Husted wrote: I wonder how people would feel about moving the actual PMC business to another list, like Jakarta-Meeting. It's obvious that we need a General list for open

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Sam Ruby
Andrew C. Oliver wrote: On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 03:14, Peter Donald wrote: On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:38, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Are you upset at the way Java is being handled by SUN? Do you feel lied to about the fact that SUN is still keeping Java proprietary even after they promised us for

Re: Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread acoliver
Peter is correct. A few links (you can see my name in the first one): http://www.ecma.ch/ecma1/MEMENTO/TC39-G3.HTM http://www.ecma.ch/ecma1/NEWS/NEWS.HTM http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2002/02/04/mono.html http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23919.html

Re: Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Sam Ruby
Andrew C Oliver wrote: A few links: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2002/02/04/mono.html http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23919.html http://www.ximian.com/devzone/projects/mono.html http://www.gnu.org/projects/dotgnu/ http://www.halcyonsoft.com/news/javadotnet.asp

Re: Re: Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread acoliver
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:48:28 -0500 Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote. Andrew C Oliver wrote: A few links: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2002/02/04/mono.html http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23919.html http://www.ximian.com/devzone/projects/mono.html

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Stefano Mazzocchi
Jon Scott Stevens wrote: on 2/4/02 1:58 PM, Kevin A. Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I created the java-is-dead mailing list to address these issues. Note that this mailing list is a place to help fix things. The java-is-dead mailing list is for people who love Java but are *very*

Are 3 votes necessary for the PMC nomination? [was: Re: To jvote or not to jvote]

2002-02-05 Thread Morgan Delagrange
So, what was the answer to the question below? If we really do need two +1s for a nomination, then I have some campaigning to do! (Unless someone else wants to go ahead and +1 me, if only to shut me up. ;) - Original Message - From: Morgan Delagrange [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta

RE: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro
Hi Stefano, -Mensaje original- De: Stefano Mazzocchi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] [...] My position: give me a solid (possibly GPL-ed) CLI implementation, a Java2C# porting tool, a BSD-licensed library of .NET classes and java-cloning classes and I say let's kiss java good bye. And

RE: [PROPOSAL] Jakarta-Meeting

2002-02-05 Thread Scott Sanders
As long as the PMC's business is out in the open, I am for anything. I do not personally feel that a new list is needed, as jakarta-general does not really see a lot of traffic. Scott -Original Message- From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002

RE: Re: Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Scott Sanders
Most of the Mono Ximian crowd is in Boston IIRC. Give them a shout. Scott -Original Message- From: acoliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 8:01 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved! On Tue, 5

RE: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Scott Sanders
Stefano, you are right on the mark as usual. As soon as a java2c# porting tool is available, the hordes will probably be moving on... -Original Message- From: Stefano Mazzocchi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 8:25 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject:

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread James Strachan
on 2/4/02 8:29 PM, Aaron Smuts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could someone explain the issue, especially with reference to JSR107 (JCACHE). Aaron Yes. I'm on JSR 107 and I seem to be the only really vocal person there about my needs. Brian Goetz cares as well, but isn't nearly as vocal.

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Jon Scott Stevens
on 2/5/02 10:55 AM, Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On the other hand the porting tool already exists. See http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualj/jump/. Yet the hordes still remain. - Sam Ruby My favorite quote: The Java Language Conversion Assistant has been developed independently by

[ANN] Apache's Position on the JSPA (was: Re: [Fwd: cvs commit:jakarta-site2/xdocs index.xml])

2002-02-05 Thread Jon Scott Stevens
on 1/30/02 4:15 PM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My only issue and I guess this is directed more at you Jon, is it doesn't give me a clear idea about what we want. Can you give me a good idea and I'll be glad to submit a patch to that effect. It just seems like we should be

RE: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Micael Padraig Og mac Grene
Sam, I always get a kick out of your droll submissions. Thanks for the quiet humor, which always includes informational content and never is too biting. Micael At 01:55 PM 2/5/02 -0500, you wrote: Scott Sanders wrote: Stefano, you are right on the mark as usual. As soon as a java2c#

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Peter Donald
On Wed, 6 Feb 2002 04:09, Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro wrote: Hi Stefano, -Mensaje original- De: Stefano Mazzocchi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] [...] My position: give me a solid (possibly GPL-ed) CLI implementation, a Java2C# porting tool, a BSD-licensed library of .NET

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Peter Donald
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:41, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 03:14, Peter Donald wrote: On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:38, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Are you upset at the way Java is being handled by SUN? Do you feel lied to about the fact that SUN is still keeping Java

Re: [ANN] Apache's Position on the JSPA (was: Re: [Fwd: cvs commit: jakarta-site2/xdocs index.xml])

2002-02-05 Thread Kevin A. Burton
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: on 1/30/02 4:15 PM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My only issue and I guess this is directed more at you Jon, is it doesn't give me a clear idea about what we want. Can you give me a

RE: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Sam Ruby
Micael Padraig Og mac Grene wrote: Sam, I always get a kick out of your droll submissions. Thanks for the quiet humor, which always includes informational content and never is too biting. Micael If you liked that, you might also like http://radio.weblogs.com/0101679/2002/02/02.html#a61 .

RE: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Jeff Schnitzer
From: Scott Sanders [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Stefano, you are right on the mark as usual. As soon as a java2c# porting tool is available, the hordes will probably be moving on... Actually, forget a porting tool. I want an open-source version of something like this:

Re: TomCat license

2002-02-05 Thread Bojan Smojver
On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 22:22, Kollár Dóra wrote: Last year we implemented Baltimore UniCERT modules at a customer. UniCERT WebRAO 2.2 MediaKit contains a non-commercial Jakarta Tomcat web application (TomCat 3.2.1). Tomcat is non-proprietary but sure is commercial. There are many people that

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Kevin A. Burton
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Stefano Mazzocchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jon Scott Stevens wrote: on 2/4/02 1:58 PM, Kevin A. Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I created the java-is-dead mailing list to address these issues. Note that this mailing list is a

Re: AW: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Kevin A. Burton
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Juergen Fey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, Java proves to be a reliable technology but some political questions are still open and some others - not all - are getting answered in the wrong direction. There could be a chance to discuss these

Re: [ANN] Apache's Position on the JSPA (was: Re: [Fwd: cvs commit:

2002-02-05 Thread acoliver
On Tue, 05 Feb 2002 11:19:43 -0800 Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote. on 1/30/02 4:15 PM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My only issue and I guess this is directed more at you Jon, is it doesn't give me a clear idea about what we want. Can you give me a good idea and I'll

RE: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread GOMEZ Henri
From: Stefano Mazzocchi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] In case you didn't notice, Sun might go out of business as soon as a couple of years: if even Oracle says that bigiron is dead, Google and yahoo run on huge though inexpensive clusters of pc clones, Dual G4 machines are starting to beat the

RE: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Ignacio J. Ortega
De: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Enviado el: martes 5 de febrero de 2002 15:09 For those who don't know me and might perceive this as an endorsement, I have worn Microsoft shirts to JavaOne (just ask Pat Sueltz), and NetScape shirts to the Microsoft PDC (just ask Dick Hardt or the MS VP

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Stefano Mazzocchi
Kevin A. Burton wrote: Dont't sit back and do nothing. Sending emails to this list is just a waste of your time. Try to imagine what makes Sun officials worry more: - the guy who pushed java technology in the ASF since '97 and was so efficient with his java-lover friends that the ASF has

A very short OSS survey

2002-02-05 Thread Matt Egyhazy
Hello All, I am doing a little research project and I would appreciate some feedback from you guys. I mostly lurk the message boards here, helping people and asking questions when they come up. I use tomcat, log4j, taglibs, and ant. This survey should take you no more than 3 or 4 minutes.

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 11:24, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: Jon Scott Stevens wrote: on 2/4/02 1:58 PM, Kevin A. Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I created the java-is-dead mailing list to address these issues. Note that this mailing list is a place to help fix things. The

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 14:47, Peter Donald wrote: On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:41, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 03:14, Peter Donald wrote: On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:38, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Are you upset at the way Java is being handled by SUN? Do you feel lied to

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Kevin A. Burton
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Stefano Mazzocchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kevin A. Burton wrote: Dont't sit back and do nothing. Sending emails to this list is just a waste of your time. Try to imagine what makes Sun officials worry more: - the guy who pushed java

RE: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Aaron Smuts
Jerry Bortvedt jerry.bortvedt@oTo: [NAME OMITTED], racle.com cc: Subject: Re: OCS4J availability 06/28/2001 02:37 PM