RE: [POLL] OS of choice

2002-12-19 Thread James Mitchell
I already have an account setup, but need Karma.  Can you help me with
this?



 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
 Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 8:59 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [POLL] OS of choice
 
 
 on 2002/12/17 1:15 PM, Henri Yandell 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  A nice idea, and a simple way of adding in the votes, but with the 
  issue that people without access to jakarta-site2 are 
 unable to commit 
  changes.
 
 I'm sorry, but I'm so tired of hearing that lame excuse over 
 and over again, even though it is CLEARLY DOCUMENTED as being 
 untrue for YEARS NOW.
 
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jakarta-site2.html

 People who have accounts on apache.org can check in their changes to 
 the jakarta-site2 module directly. If you get an error such as Access

 denied: Insufficient Karma, then please send email to the 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list and we will grant you the 
 appropriate access. If you do not have an account, then please feel 
 free to send patches (against the .xml files and not the .html files!)

 to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list.

-jon


--
James Mitchell
Software Engineer/Struts Evangelist
http://www.open-tools.org

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but
when you do, it blows away your whole leg. 
- Bjarne Stroustrup


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Re: Jakarta PMC report

2002-12-19 Thread Jon Scott Stevens
on 2002/12/18 9:19 PM, Costin Manolache [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I think the point was that we also need people to review the commits and
 people to vote on the release.

Thanks for volunteering.

 I don't know what final would mean - if bugs are found that affect
 projects using regexp ( like tomcat which AFAIK has a dependency ) - then
 I hope it'll still be possible to fix them.

Read what I wrote. It means it will be the last release of the
jakarta-regexp project. Given that you haven't fixed any of the bugs or done
any of the work on this project, what the hell are you talking about?

 My opinion about stable projects like regexp: we should change the

I just stopped reading after you said my opinion.

 BTW - thanks for taking the time to fix the bugs in regexp, and
 congratulations to  the jakarta-regexp team for completing the
 project ! :-)

Thanks for being a complete idiot Costin.

-jon

-- 
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314 11th Street @ Folsom /\ San Francisco
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Re: Jakarta PMC report

2002-12-19 Thread Sam Ruby
Various answers, in no particular order:

This is a chairman's report.  Typically, these appear after a time delay 
(once approved in a subsequent meeting) at 
http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/calendar.html .

I raised the issue about Tapestry in yesterday's board meeting.  Jim 
Jagielski agreed to contact Andy ASAP.  First thing after the holidays 
would be a good time to pursue XDoclet.  It's time to unpause.  ;-)
Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] and express your desires as to where this 
codebase would land within the ASF.

My opinion is that subprojects that lack community due to stability 
should become community property.  Perhaps commit messages should be 
directed to general@.

- Sam Ruby


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Re: [POLL] OS of choice

2002-12-19 Thread Sam Ruby
glens and jmitchell now have karma to jakarta-site2

- Sam Ruby


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Re: Jakarta PMC report

2002-12-19 Thread Pier Fumagalli
On 18/12/02 19:00 Doug Bateman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Seeing clarification:  Is Sam's post here the official report from
 the PMC, or a summary of a PMC report posted elsewhere?
 
 Looking at the news page, I see a summary for status of each
 individual project in Jakarta, but no summary of the status and
 growth of Jakarta as a whole.  For example, PMC interest in
 slowing/stopping the imperialistic expansion isn't directly
 mentioned on the page, and yet is of interest to the community as
 a whole (users and developers).

Those should be integrated (IMO) in Rob's Newsletters... Now, if only the
different projects fed him some content

pier


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Re: FYI: Follow up on the XML'ization of MS Office 11

2002-12-19 Thread Pier Fumagalli
On 17/12/02 18:03 Dominique Devienne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 ... which follows the SUN and MS bashing thread where this subject was
 brushed on.
 I'm just forwarding the news, no need to shoot/flame the messenger. Thanks,
 --DD
 
 From: xmlhack daily news digest: 17 Dec 2002
 
 Microsoft Office embraces XML http://xmlhack.com/read.php?item=1839
 http://xmlhack.com/read.php?item=1839
 
 For many participants, the most memorable event of XML 2002 will be
 Jean Paoli's presentation of Office 11, which promises to deliver
 easier access to XML for hundreds of millions of work stations.
 (Tools, Comment: 20:28 16 Dec 2002 UTC)


Lame... Since ages we got http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/ which has (I'm
sure), less bugs than MS' implementation of it...

Pier


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Re: GUI of the website, where's an overview? (not simply found)

2002-12-19 Thread Pier Fumagalli
On 17/12/02 7:14 Steven Noels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I'm currently (slowly) working on this:
 http://cocoon.cocoondev.org/mount/trove/ - which should, amongst
 others, be dependant on Gump data.

Simple hint... Don't call it Trove...

http://teatrove.sourceforge.net/

It's a pretty-famous widely-used set of utility classes used by Tea (a
template engine). And given that they went open-source with it because of us
(well, Brian and Duncan) we don't want to step on friends' toes, right???
:-) :-)

Pier


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RE: Jakarta PMC report

2002-12-19 Thread Danny Angus

 This is a chairman's report.  Typically, these appear after a time delay 
 (once approved in a subsequent meeting) at 
 http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/calendar.html .

thats what I thought, but I don't see any recent jakarta ones.

d.

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Re: GUI of the website, where's an overview? (not simply found)

2002-12-19 Thread Martin van den Bemt
I really like Bambi :)

Mvgr,
Martin

On Thu, 2002-12-19 at 14:34, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
 On 17/12/02 7:14 Steven Noels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I'm currently (slowly) working on this:
  http://cocoon.cocoondev.org/mount/trove/ - which should, amongst
  others, be dependant on Gump data.
 
 Simple hint... Don't call it Trove...
 
 http://teatrove.sourceforge.net/
 
 It's a pretty-famous widely-used set of utility classes used by Tea (a
 template engine). And given that they went open-source with it because of us
 (well, Brian and Duncan) we don't want to step on friends' toes, right???
 :-) :-)
 
 Pier
 
 
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Re: FYI: Follow up on the XML'ization of MS Office 11

2002-12-19 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
I find it rather amusing that you need Office 11 to have ACCESS to XML. 
After all XML has been so restricted until now ;-).

Regardless, I hope (I think) Micorsoft REALLY makes Office XML compliant 
such that it behaves nicely in Office.  Currently you can save it as a 
kinda XML format but its not usable in a server situation because of 
Office's quirks, IE-Office quirks (oddly enough this works better with 
Netscape 4.x+), and tendency to CRASH on non-insubstantial documents or 
just take for flippin ever (in a way that just doesn't make sense if 
they are parsing using any parser I've ever used)..  If Microsoft 
ACTUALLY does this, than after a short period I'll consider POI to be 
kin to ECS (http://jakarta.apache.org/ecs/); however, I wouldn't 
pre-reserve my copy just yet or start a big Finally Microsoft embraces 
open file formats yet...

I sold my stock in MS a long time ago when I realized they had no 
credibility (which made me rather uncomfortable as a relatively 
conservative investor...my IBM stock did better anyhow when you count 
the dividends).

-Andy

From: xmlhack daily news digest: 17 Dec 2002

Microsoft Office embraces XML http://xmlhack.com/read.php?item=1839
http://xmlhack.com/read.php?item=1839

For many participants, the most memorable event of XML 2002 will be
Jean Paoli's presentation of Office 11, which promises to deliver
easier access to XML for hundreds of millions of work stations.
(Tools, Comment: 20:28 16 Dec 2002 UTC)
   



Lame... Since ages we got http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/ which has (I'm
sure), less bugs than MS' implementation of it...

   Pier


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Re: GUI of the website, where's an overview? (not simply found)

2002-12-19 Thread Pier Fumagalli
On 19/12/02 13:49 Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Trove is also Sourceforge's categorization system.  I suspect that is
 where the name was taken from.  If you'd like to publicize Tea more, why
 not put it on the Elsewhere news on the front page?   (not being
 sarcastic, its an honest suggestion)

Jason's servlet book publicises it enough! :-) And given that it's not an
ASF project...

Pier


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Re: Jakarta PMC report

2002-12-19 Thread Sam Ruby
Danny Angus wrote:

This is a chairman's report.  Typically, these appear after a time delay 
(once approved in a subsequent meeting) at 
http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/calendar.html .

thats what I thought, but I don't see any recent jakarta ones.


Bad, Jakarta chairman, bad.

- Sam Ruby



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Re: Jakarta PMC report

2002-12-19 Thread Costin Manolache
Jon Scott Stevens wrote:

 BTW - thanks for taking the time to fix the bugs in regexp, and
 congratulations to  the jakarta-regexp team for completing the
 project ! :-)
 
 Thanks for being a complete idiot Costin.

I meant it very seriously - I think every project should have a goal,
and should eventually reach the goal in a finite amount of time. The
fact that jakarta-regexp just works and has met its goals is a very
positive thing. And the team that worked on it deserve ( sincere ) 
congratulations ( including you, Jon ).



Costin





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[discussion] jakarta-gump as community property

2002-12-19 Thread Sam Ruby
Gump is now two years old.  It has had contributions from over a dozen 
people, about a half-dozen this month alone.  There seems to be a 
renewed interest in gump (some in response to a little nudging grin).

Considering all of this, what I would like to propose is that the 
contents of jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump get moved to jakarta-gump, 
all committers to any jakarta code base be given karma and voting rights 
on the full contents (descriptors, code, and stylesheets alike) and that 
a single [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing be created (we are all devs 
here, right?)

Thoughts?

- Sam Ruby




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Re: [discussion] jakarta-gump as community property

2002-12-19 Thread Costin Manolache
Sam Ruby wrote:

 Gump is now two years old.  It has had contributions from over a dozen
 people, about a half-dozen this month alone.  There seems to be a
 renewed interest in gump (some in response to a little nudging grin).
 
 Considering all of this, what I would like to propose is that the
 contents of jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump get moved to jakarta-gump,
 all committers to any jakarta code base be given karma and voting rights
 on the full contents (descriptors, code, and stylesheets alike) and that
 a single [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing be created (we are all devs
 here, right?)
 
 Thoughts?

Big +1

Costin



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Re: Jakarta PMC report

2002-12-19 Thread Jon Scott Stevens
on 2002/12/19 8:04 AM, Costin Manolache [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I meant it very seriously - I think every project should have a goal,
 and should eventually reach the goal in a finite amount of time. The
 fact that jakarta-regexp just works and has met its goals is a very
 positive thing. And the team that worked on it deserve ( sincere )
 congratulations ( including you, Jon ).
 
 Costin

Yup, just like Tomcat 3...which should have reached its goal years ago.

-jon

-- 
StudioZ.tv /\ Bar/Nightclub/Entertainment
314 11th Street @ Folsom /\ San Francisco
http://studioz.tv/


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Re: [discussion] jakarta-gump as community property

2002-12-19 Thread James Taylor
On Thu, 2002-12-19 at 12:21, Sam Ruby wrote:
 Gump is now two years old.  It has had contributions from over a dozen 
 people, about a half-dozen this month alone.  There seems to be a 
 renewed interest in gump (some in response to a little nudging grin).
 
 Considering all of this, what I would like to propose is that the 
 contents of jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump get moved to jakarta-gump, 
 all committers to any jakarta code base be given karma and voting rights 
 on the full contents (descriptors, code, and stylesheets alike) and that 
 a single [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing be created (we are all devs 
 here, right?)
 
 Thoughts?

Yes! Big +0 with the emphasis on the +

( Not that I am a big fan of gump, but moving out of the proposal area
can only make it better! =)


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Re: [discussion] jakarta-gump as community property

2002-12-19 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr .

On Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 12:21 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:


Gump is now two years old.  It has had contributions from over a dozen 
people, about a half-dozen this month alone.  There seems to be a 
renewed interest in gump (some in response to a little nudging  grin).

Considering all of this, what I would like to propose is that the 
contents of jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump get moved to 
jakarta-gump, all committers to any jakarta code base be given karma 
and voting rights on the full contents (descriptors, code, and 
stylesheets alike) and that a single [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing 
be created (we are all devs here, right?)

Thoughts?

As a 'consumer' who benefitted from the daily Gumps of the codebases 
here at Jakarta, +0 from me. (I have no time to help - but I think a 
good idea...)


--
Geir Magnusson Jr   203-355-2219(w)
Adeptra, Inc.   203-247-1713(m)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Jakarta PMC report

2002-12-19 Thread Costin Manolache
Jon Scott Stevens wrote:

 on 2002/12/19 8:04 AM, Costin Manolache [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 I meant it very seriously - I think every project should have a goal,
 and should eventually reach the goal in a finite amount of time. The
 fact that jakarta-regexp just works and has met its goals is a very
 positive thing. And the team that worked on it deserve ( sincere )
 congratulations ( including you, Jon ).
 
 Costin
 
 Yup, just like Tomcat 3...which should have reached its goal years ago.

Yes. I personally think tomcat3.3 has reached its goals ( performance, 
modularity, simplicity, compliance, etc ). The time it takes to reach the 
project goals depends on many factors. 


Costin





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Re: [discussion] jakarta-gump as community property

2002-12-19 Thread Erik Hatcher
+1

Sam Ruby wrote:

Gump is now two years old.  It has had contributions from over a dozen 
people, about a half-dozen this month alone.  There seems to be a 
renewed interest in gump (some in response to a little nudging grin).

Considering all of this, what I would like to propose is that the 
contents of jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump get moved to jakarta-gump, 
all committers to any jakarta code base be given karma and voting rights 
on the full contents (descriptors, code, and stylesheets alike) and that 
a single [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing be created (we are all devs 
here, right?)

Thoughts?

- Sam Ruby




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RE: [discussion] jakarta-gump as community property

2002-12-19 Thread Scott Sanders
+1.  Gump should be community property.

Scott

 -Original Message-
 From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
 Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 9:21 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [discussion] jakarta-gump as community property
 
 
 Gump is now two years old.  It has had contributions from 
 over a dozen 
 people, about a half-dozen this month alone.  There seems to be a 
 renewed interest in gump (some in response to a little 
 nudging grin).
 
 Considering all of this, what I would like to propose is that the 
 contents of jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump get moved to 
 jakarta-gump, 
 all committers to any jakarta code base be given karma and 
 voting rights 
 on the full contents (descriptors, code, and stylesheets 
 alike) and that 
 a single [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing be created (we are all devs 
 here, right?)
 
 Thoughts?
 
 - Sam Ruby
 
 
 
 
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 To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
 mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [discussion] jakarta-gump as community property

2002-12-19 Thread Craig R. McClanahan


On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Sam Ruby wrote:

 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:21:03 -0500
 From: Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [discussion] jakarta-gump as community property

 Gump is now two years old.  It has had contributions from over a dozen
 people, about a half-dozen this month alone.  There seems to be a
 renewed interest in gump (some in response to a little nudging grin).

 Considering all of this, what I would like to propose is that the
 contents of jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump get moved to jakarta-gump,
 all committers to any jakarta code base be given karma and voting rights
 on the full contents (descriptors, code, and stylesheets alike) and that
 a single [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing be created (we are all devs
 here, right?)

 Thoughts?


I like the idea of Gump becoming community property, but should it really
be only for Jakarta committers?  I'm thinking in particular about groups
like Ant and Avalon (recently graduated into full fledged Apache
projects), as well as the XML packages that Gump also watches over.

 - Sam Ruby

Craig McClanahan



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RE: [discussion] jakarta-gump as community property

2002-12-19 Thread Scott Sanders
I would be +1 for any apache committer.

 -Original Message-
 From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
 Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 11:33 AM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: [discussion] jakarta-gump as community property
 
 I like the idea of Gump becoming community property, but 
 should it really be only for Jakarta committers?  I'm 
 thinking in particular about groups like Ant and Avalon 
 (recently graduated into full fledged Apache projects), as 
 well as the XML packages that Gump also watches over.
 
  - Sam Ruby
 
 Craig McClanahan
 
 
 
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Re: [discussion] jakarta-gump as community property

2002-12-19 Thread Sam Ruby
Craig R. McClanahan wrote:


I like the idea of Gump becoming community property, but should it really
be only for Jakarta committers?  I'm thinking in particular about groups
like Ant and Avalon (recently graduated into full fledged Apache
projects), as well as the XML packages that Gump also watches over.


I just dug into cvs_acls.pl, and it looks like this is possible; I'm 
certainly fine with that idea.

- Sam Ruby

P.S.  Since Gump simply runs commands and captures output, there is no 
technical reason why it needs to be limited to Java code bases.


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RE: Jakarta PMC report

2002-12-19 Thread O'brien, Tim
Where are the November board minutes now that they have been approved at
yesterday's board meeting?


Tim O'Brien 
W 847-574-2143
M 847-863-7045


 -Original Message-
 From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
 Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 5:45 AM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: Jakarta PMC report
 
 
 Various answers, in no particular order:
 
 This is a chairman's report.  Typically, these appear after a 
 time delay 
 (once approved in a subsequent meeting) at 
 http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/calendar.html .
 
 I raised the issue about Tapestry in yesterday's board meeting.  Jim 
 Jagielski agreed to contact Andy ASAP.  First thing after the 
 holidays 
 would be a good time to pursue XDoclet.  It's time to 
 unpause.  ;-) Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] and express your 
 desires as to where this 
 codebase would land within the ASF.
 
 My opinion is that subprojects that lack community due to stability 
 should become community property.  Perhaps commit messages should be 
 directed to general@.
 
 - Sam Ruby
 
 
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 To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
 mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [discussion] jakarta-gump as community property

2002-12-19 Thread Conor MacNeill
Sam Ruby wrote:

Considering all of this, what I would like to propose is that the 
contents of jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump get moved to jakarta-gump, 
all committers to any jakarta code base be given karma and voting rights 
on the full contents (descriptors, code, and stylesheets alike) and that 
a single [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing be created (we are all devs 
here, right?)



+1

Conor



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Re: [discussion] jakarta-gump as community property

2002-12-19 Thread Nicola Ken Barozzi

Sam Ruby wrote:

Craig R. McClanahan wrote:



I like the idea of Gump becoming community property, but should it really
be only for Jakarta committers?  I'm thinking in particular about groups
like Ant and Avalon (recently graduated into full fledged Apache
projects), as well as the XML packages that Gump also watches over.


+1


I just dug into cvs_acls.pl, and it looks like this is possible; I'm 
certainly fine with that idea.

- Sam Ruby

P.S.  Since Gump simply runs commands and captures output, there is no 
technical reason why it needs to be limited to Java code bases.

In fact it should be open to allo:-D

--
Nicola Ken Barozzi   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
   (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
-


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[OT] Re: GUI of the website, where's an overview? (not simply found)

2002-12-19 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
Me too.  And my younger stepson has a cute little voice.  So he was 
playing with Clay and patted it into a semi-round circle and said here, 
it's Bambi-burger...yummm..  And I pretended to eat it...  

Gotta pick some more Bambi up...m   (oh wait ... I forgot... I'm 
vegetarian this week for health reasons...darn)

-Andy

Martin van den Bemt wrote:

I really like Bambi :)

Mvgr,
Martin

On Thu, 2002-12-19 at 14:34, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
 

On 17/12/02 7:14 Steven Noels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   

I'm currently (slowly) working on this:
http://cocoon.cocoondev.org/mount/trove/ - which should, amongst
others, be dependant on Gump data.
 

Simple hint... Don't call it Trove...

http://teatrove.sourceforge.net/

It's a pretty-famous widely-used set of utility classes used by Tea (a
template engine). And given that they went open-source with it because of us
(well, Brian and Duncan) we don't want to step on friends' toes, right???
:-) :-)

   Pier


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Re: [discussion] jakarta-gump as community property

2002-12-19 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
Sam Ruby wrote:


Gump is now two years old.  It has had contributions from over a dozen 
people, about a half-dozen this month alone.  There seems to be a 
renewed interest in gump (some in response to a little nudging grin).

Considering all of this, what I would like to propose is that the 
contents of jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump get moved to 
jakarta-gump, all committers to any jakarta code base be given karma 
and voting rights on the full contents (descriptors, code, and 
stylesheets alike) and that a single [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing 
be created (we are all devs here, right?)

Big MONDO +1 from me with extra Sugar on top and POI and many legged 
insects as a side dish (those who know, know)!

-Andy


Thoughts?

- Sam Ruby




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Re: Jakarta PMC report

2002-12-19 Thread Andrew C. Oliver


Yup, just like Tomcat 3...which should have reached its goal years ago.

-jon

 

The Andy theorem on general Apache Jakarta discussions continues to 
prove true (they all devolve into a rehash of the bad ol days of Tomcat 
3.3/4)...  Please don't take the bait guys... Pretty please?

-Andy



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Re: Jakarta PMC report

2002-12-19 Thread Jon Scott Stevens
on 2002/12/19 10:25 AM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The Andy theorem on general Apache Jakarta discussions continues to
 prove true (they all devolve into a rehash of the bad ol days of Tomcat
 3.3/4)...  Please don't take the bait guys... Pretty please?
 
 -Andy

Sorry, it is a very sore point. Many long hours went into banging my head
against The Wall (Costin) and even to this day, he and I can't agree on
anything. The irony of it all is that Costin ended up dropping T3 and is now
working on T4/T5. If only he had listened to us back then, I wouldn't have
wasted so much time.

The point being that we seem to continue to do the same circle. We get
people like Nicola who are similar to Costin in The Wall mindset and the
same exact discussions go round and round just on different topics (ie:
Maven vs. Centipede vs. Forrest vs. vs. vs. vs.).

Personal growth on my part would assume that I would find a way to arrange
things so that they see the light without making them feel stupid and giving
them a way to win. However, with people who have The Wall mentality, I
have not been able to figure out the right approach as of yet.

-jon

-- 
StudioZ.tv /\ Bar/Nightclub/Entertainment
314 11th Street @ Folsom /\ San Francisco
http://studioz.tv/


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Re: Jakarta PMC report

2002-12-19 Thread Andrew C. Oliver


The point being that we seem to continue to do the same circle. We get
people like Nicola who are similar to Costin in The Wall mindset and the
same exact discussions go round and round just on different topics (ie:
Maven vs. Centipede vs. Forrest vs. vs. vs. vs.).


Okay.  I'll bite  I love a good stupid moronic discussion that 
serves no useful purpose other than ingraciate your ego Jon :-)

Personal growth on my part would assume that I would find a way to arrange
things so that they see the light without making them feel stupid and giving
them a way to win. However, with people who have The Wall mentality, I
have not been able to figure out the right approach as of yet.
 


Yes Jon.  Point well taken.  Nicola Ken needs to learn to make such 
unifying statements and Bring people
together the way you do.  Just for his education  I'll post a few here:

In this post Jon expresses his acceptance for other technology and how 
he values community and wishes to work closely together:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-generalm=102029828404481w=2
 I can't stand XSL...

It this post Jon expresses his preference to break down the wall:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-generalm=102038789013943w=2




I listen to the following:

Code.
Patches.
Real suggestions for improvement.


MERGE


It is your itch. Not mine.



In this post ken expresses his disgust with Maven and Centipede living 
as one project with no walls:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-generalm=102028908729985w=2
[Long proposal where Ken +1s combining Centipede and Maven and doesn't 
care where they live]

And for the record I expressed my preference to have 2 seperate projects 
here:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-generalm=102026406806371w=2

Yeah so why can't these work together? I still just don't get it. Gee

we don't like that lets do our own thing or integrate with anything but 
this or that.  It just baffles the crap out of me.  

If I had the choice.  I'd use NEITHER.  I choose Centaven WITH GUMP.


-Andy the pebble.



So why don't you drive a combined Centipede/Maven as maybe a top level 
Apache project?  
It seems like a great way for you to break down this wall that disturbs 
you so.  I'd certainly vote for such a proposal.  
I'll betcha Nicola Ken would...

So Jon...did this wall REALLY
develop from Nicola Ken or both You and the Maven developers who didn't 
want to work inclusively?
You make the decision.

Did Stefano drink all your beer or something?  Why'd you wake up on this 
today eh?

-Andy the confused.

-jon

 




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Re: Jakarta PMC report

2002-12-19 Thread Sam Ruby
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:


Come on.  Does anyone really *like* XSL?


I do.

http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump/stylesheet/xref.xsl?rev=1.21content-type=text/plain

- Sam Ruby


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Re: Jakarta PMC report

2002-12-19 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
Not that this discussion has any useful point.. . But I adore the 
purpose and concepts behind XSLT, but I LOATHE the syntax.  However,
now that I know it, its not so bad.  

-Andy

Sam Ruby wrote:

Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:



Come on.  Does anyone really *like* XSL?



I do.

http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump/stylesheet/xref.xsl?rev=1.21content-type=text/plain

- Sam Ruby


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Re: Jakarta PMC report

2002-12-19 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr .

On Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 07:13 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:


Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:

Come on.  Does anyone really *like* XSL?


I do.


I actually like the declarative model  I sometimes have trouble in 
that processing syntax is not orthogonal to the syntax of what you are 
generally trying to output (XML, usually).

--
Geir Magnusson Jr   203-355-2219(w)
Adeptra, Inc.   203-247-1713(m)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Jakarta PMC report

2002-12-19 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:



On Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 07:13 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:


Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:


Come on.  Does anyone really *like* XSL?



I do.



I actually like the declarative model  I sometimes have trouble in 
that processing syntax is not orthogonal to the syntax of what you are 
generally trying to output (XML, usually).

Agreed!


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Re: [discussion] jakarta-gump as community property

2002-12-19 Thread Martin Cooper
+1

Not sure what I could help with, but ping me if you think of something.
;-)

--
Martin Cooper


On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Sam Ruby wrote:

 Gump is now two years old.  It has had contributions from over a dozen
 people, about a half-dozen this month alone.  There seems to be a
 renewed interest in gump (some in response to a little nudging grin).

 Considering all of this, what I would like to propose is that the
 contents of jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump get moved to jakarta-gump,
 all committers to any jakarta code base be given karma and voting rights
 on the full contents (descriptors, code, and stylesheets alike) and that
 a single [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing be created (we are all devs
 here, right?)

 Thoughts?

 - Sam Ruby




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