Re: [OT] Which Linux distribution for Java development?

2005-01-08 Thread Martin van den Bemt
Esp jdk 1.3 was a PITA under linux. afaik sun finally fixed their bugs,
so it should run a lot better..

Mvgr,
Martin

On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 10:13, Danny Angus wrote:
  One thing you *may* care about is using certified Java VM.
 
 You should also be aware that there are issues with combinations of JVM and
 Linux, at work we're still trying to resolve an issue with RedHat
 Enterprise and J2sdk 1.2.4, and there were significant issues with certain
 earlier redhat and 1.3 combinations.
 
 That said these tend not to be noticable in development, and only bite you
 in the arse when you proudly set your work free and watch it fail to cope
 with heavy load or fail to achieve high uptimes
 
 But as they we say in English, c'est la vie!
 
 d.
 
 
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[site] jakarta acknowledgements page

2005-01-08 Thread robert burrell donkin
as per the advice i received from the ASF prc, i've removed the local 
jakarta acknowledgements page 
(http://jakarta.apache.org/site/acknowledgements.html) and added a 
redirect to the ASF thanks page 
(http://www.apache.org/foundation/thanks.html).

- robert
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[site] notice of redirected pages

2005-01-08 Thread robert burrell donkin
FYI i've added redirects for the following pages:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/convert-to-mirror.html
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/farewell-martin.html
- robert
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Re: cvs commit: jakarta-site2 build.xml

2005-01-08 Thread robert burrell donkin
the issue here is that when changes are made to the stylesheet, they 
were not reflected. i've added a force but it might be worth 
considering whether adding a clean target would be better.

opinions?
- robert
On 8 Jan 2005, at 15:17, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
rdonkin 2005/01/08 07:17:22
  Modified:.build.xml
  Log:
  Added force to all transformations.
  Revision  ChangesPath
  1.16  +8 -4  jakarta-site2/build.xml
  Index: build.xml
  ===
  RCS file: /home/cvs/jakarta-site2/build.xml,v
  retrieving revision 1.15
  retrieving revision 1.16
  diff -u -r1.15 -r1.16
  --- build.xml 2 Jan 2005 17:16:19 -   1.15
  +++ build.xml 8 Jan 2005 15:17:22 -   1.16
  @@ -29,7 +29,8 @@
  extension=.html
   style=xdocs/stylesheets/site.xsl
   excludes=empty.xml
  -includes=*.xml
  +includes=*.xml
  +force='true'
 param name=relative-path expression=./
   /style
  @@ -38,7 +39,8 @@
destdir=${docs.dest}/site
  extension=.html
   style=xdocs/stylesheets/site.xsl
  -includes=*.xml
  +includes=*.xml
  +force='true'
 param name=relative-path expression=../
   /style
  @@ -47,7 +49,8 @@
destdir=${docs.dest}/site/pmc
  extension=.html
   style=xdocs/stylesheets/site.xsl
  -includes=*.xml
  +includes=*.xml
  +force='true'
 param name=relative-path expression=../../
   /style
  @@ -56,7 +59,8 @@
destdir=${docs.dest}/site/news
  extension=.html
   style=xdocs/stylesheets/site.xsl
  -includes=*.xml
  +includes=*.xml
  +force='true'
 param name=relative-path expression=../../
   /style


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[site] navigation bar elements?

2005-01-08 Thread robert burrell donkin
the current division of information between the two navigation bars and 
the order within seems (to me) a little unpleasing. do other people 
think that it's fine as it now is?

- robert
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[site] future of new project page

2005-01-08 Thread robert burrell donkin
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html contains new 
(sub-)project creation guidelines. i think that this is now outdated 
and should be removed. however, the content is pretty good and would be 
(i think) suitable (in amended form) for the incubator website. i think 
that the best approach would be for a volunteer to approach incubator 
to see if they are interested in the content, remove the page and 
redirect to the incubator.

opinions?
- robert
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Re: [site] navigation bar elements?

2005-01-08 Thread Henri Yandell
S'basically:
Left hand side for user's of Commons code
Right hand side for other info
There's more there than I want to have there, but that's the general bit 
behind the separation.

Downloading is expected to normally be:
Jakarta-BSF-Download
rather than
Jakarta-Download-BSF
So although I've got downloads at the top, it's on the right as a lesser 
used navigation. That's a bit of a forced separation, but it would be too 
much to put it on the lhs.

When downloads becomes a single link to a more concise page; I was 
thinking it could move back over to the left and the space in the top 
right could be used for [EMAIL PROTECTED], or whatever name we would choose to 
use for Jakarta's role there.

So that's my reasoning for the division :)
Hen
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005, robert burrell donkin wrote:
the current division of information between the two navigation bars and the 
order within seems (to me) a little unpleasing. do other people think that 
it's fine as it now is?

- robert
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Re: [site] future of new project page

2005-01-08 Thread Henri Yandell
+1
At the very least, record this opinion on the wiki siteinfo page so we can 
get around to it eventually :)

Hen
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005, robert burrell donkin wrote:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html contains new (sub-)project 
creation guidelines. i think that this is now outdated and should be removed. 
however, the content is pretty good and would be (i think) suitable (in 
amended form) for the incubator website. i think that the best approach would 
be for a volunteer to approach incubator to see if they are interested in the 
content, remove the page and redirect to the incubator.

opinions?
- robert
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[Jakarta Wiki] Updated: SiteInfo

2005-01-08 Thread general
   Date: 2005-01-08T10:12:42
   Editor: HenriYandell
   Wiki: Jakarta Wiki
   Page: SiteInfo
   URL: http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/SiteInfo

   Latest status

Change Log:

--
@@ -1,18 +1,18 @@
 = Plan for the future of the Jakarta site =
 
  0. 2005 copyright update. - '''DONE'''
- 0. Cleanup of dead parts of the site. - '''tomcat-old, tomcat-4.0 and 
jmeter201 to go'''
+ 0. Cleanup of dead parts of the site. - '''DONE'''
  1. Removal of Anakia build and usage of Ant/XSL as the only build system. - 
'''DONE'''
  1. Move site/news.* to redirects instead of meta refreshes. Also 
agreement.html. - '''DONE'''
- 1. See if PRC will take Acknowledgements - ''Robert''.
+ 1. See if PRC will take Acknowledgements - '''DONE'''
  1. Figure out how to remove idedev-*.html. Tomcat pages in jakarta-site2.
- 1. Why are meta tags being generated as bad xml? Is it the doctype of loose?
- 1. The generated html could definitely do with pretty printing.
+ 1. Why are meta tags being generated as bad xml? Is it the doctype of loose? 
- '''FIXED'''
+ 1. The generated html could definitely do with pretty printing. - '''DONE'''
  2. New look site.
-  a. Switch to three-column display - 
[http://www.apache.org/~bayard/mock-jakarta-frontpage.html].
-  a. Modification of XSL system to support mockup. ''Hen''.
-  a. Use of CSS.
- 1. Tighter front page.
+  a. Switch to three-column display - '''DONE'''
+  a. Modification of XSL system to support mockup. - '''DONE'''
+  a. Use of CSS. - '''DONE'''
+ 1. Tighter front page - 
[http://www.apache.org/~bayard/mock-jakarta-frontpage.html].
  1. Delete content:
   a. Vendor page
   a. Acknowledgements page - Redirect to 
http://www.apache.org/foundation/thanks.html
@@ -25,7 +25,7 @@
  1. Move JSPA stuff to www.apache.org. ''Geir''.
  1. Move Legal link from navbar to bottom of page. 
  1. Migrate to Subversion - [Site2 Conversion Instructions]. ''Tim''.
- 1. Migration of reference pages into Foundation.
+ 1. Migration of reference pages into Foundation. ''Robert'' - '''ONGOING'''
  2. Improvement of download pages. Creation of cgi pages.
  3. [EMAIL PROTECTED] considerations. Indexing systems for javadoc, jars, 
downloads etc. IRC channel?
  4. SVN information in addition to CVS information.

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[Jakarta Wiki] Updated: SiteInfo

2005-01-08 Thread general
   Date: 2005-01-08T10:16:04
   Editor: HenriYandell
   Wiki: Jakarta Wiki
   Page: SiteInfo
   URL: http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/SiteInfo

   no comment

Change Log:

--
@@ -22,6 +22,11 @@
   a. Reference library
   a. Related project stuff.
  1. Flatten Project Guidelines and all the other 'how to' pages into a 
shallower structure.
+ 1. Removal of silly pages:
+  a. jon.html (and images)
+  a. love.html
+  a. idiot.html
+  a. os.html
  1. Move JSPA stuff to www.apache.org. ''Geir''.
  1. Move Legal link from navbar to bottom of page. 
  1. Migrate to Subversion - [Site2 Conversion Instructions]. ''Tim''.

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[Jakarta Wiki] Updated: SiteInfo

2005-01-08 Thread general
   Date: 2005-01-08T10:25:36
   Editor: HenriYandell
   Wiki: Jakarta Wiki
   Page: SiteInfo
   URL: http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/SiteInfo

   no comment

Change Log:

--
@@ -27,6 +27,9 @@
   a. love.html
   a. idiot.html
   a. os.html
+ 1. Removal of dead pages:
+  a. methodology.html (nothing links to this)
+  a. jakarta-site-*.html (4 pages, with various links to them; however the 
content is bad)
  1. Move JSPA stuff to www.apache.org. ''Geir''.
  1. Move Legal link from navbar to bottom of page. 
  1. Migrate to Subversion - [Site2 Conversion Instructions]. ''Tim''.

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Re: [site] Removing things

2005-01-08 Thread Martin Cooper
On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 20:50:28 -0500 (EST), Henri Yandell
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Next up is to clean up various bits on the large front page. Here's the
 list of changes. For each one, if I don't hear a -1 by Tuesday I'll go
 ahead and make the change.
 
 1) Rewrite of the welcome message to the welcome message at
 http://www.apache.org/~bayard/mock-jakarta-frontpage.html. Including
 additions to the products table as shown in the mock.
 
 2) Removal of the elsewhere news section. Point redirects to
 news/index.html.
 
 3) Remove License renewal and news blog from Headlines section. Rename
 Headlines to News.
 
 4) Removal of Graduated from the left navbar.

I haven't kept up with all of the discussion in the last few days -
why are we removing this? IMHO, it's still valuable for the less
frequent visitor to our site.

 5) Removal of Related table at the bottom of the index.
 
 6) Move Legal link to the bottom of the page (with the copyright), as
 shown in mock.
 
 7) Removal of Our Mission. Redirect to front page.

This seems to me like an important thing to have stated up front. If
what we have now isn't what we think we're about, we should fix it
rather than removing it. If we don't think we can fix it, then we have
a serious problem. ;-)

--
Martin Cooper


 8) Removal of links to Japanese/Korean translations.
 
 Hen
 
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Re: [site] Removing things

2005-01-08 Thread Henri Yandell

On Sat, 8 Jan 2005, Martin Cooper wrote:
On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 20:50:28 -0500 (EST), Henri Yandell
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Next up is to clean up various bits on the large front page. Here's the
list of changes. For each one, if I don't hear a -1 by Tuesday I'll go
ahead and make the change.
4) Removal of Graduated from the left navbar.
I haven't kept up with all of the discussion in the last few days -
why are we removing this? IMHO, it's still valuable for the less
frequent visitor to our site.
Graduated is a confusing concept that we then have to somehow explain. 
Additionally, how long would we maintain links to said projects etc?

I think Graduated is best replaced by:
News item on graduation that stays prominent for a few months. Some kind 
of larger [EMAIL PROTECTED] page.

7) Removal of Our Mission. Redirect to front page.
This seems to me like an important thing to have stated up front. If
what we have now isn't what we think we're about, we should fix it
rather than removing it. If we don't think we can fix it, then we have
a serious problem. ;-)
It's a pointless page. The Welcome + Navbars contains all the information 
it has, so it just adds to the general clutter.

Hen
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Re: [site] Removing things

2005-01-08 Thread Martin Cooper
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 17:28:34 -0500 (EST), Henri Yandell
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 On Sat, 8 Jan 2005, Martin Cooper wrote:
 
  On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 20:50:28 -0500 (EST), Henri Yandell
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Next up is to clean up various bits on the large front page. Here's the
  list of changes. For each one, if I don't hear a -1 by Tuesday I'll go
  ahead and make the change.
 
  4) Removal of Graduated from the left navbar.
 
  I haven't kept up with all of the discussion in the last few days -
  why are we removing this? IMHO, it's still valuable for the less
  frequent visitor to our site.
 
 Graduated is a confusing concept that we then have to somehow explain.

Then let's just call it Ex-Jakarta.

 Additionally, how long would we maintain links to said projects etc?

6 months to a year.

Let me ask the reverse question: How long would you keep the link to a
subproject once it leaves? Would you remove it as soon as the project
leaves, or keep it around for a while? If the latter, why wouldn't you
move it to an Ex-Jakarta section instead?

 I think Graduated is best replaced by:
 
 News item on graduation that stays prominent for a few months. Some kind
 of larger [EMAIL PROTECTED] page.

It's not clear to me that people will go and read the News section if
they can't find the link to the subproject. After all, if there's no
link, then it can't be a Jakarta subproject, so why would there be
Jakarta news about it?

--
Martin Cooper


  7) Removal of Our Mission. Redirect to front page.
 
  This seems to me like an important thing to have stated up front. If
  what we have now isn't what we think we're about, we should fix it
  rather than removing it. If we don't think we can fix it, then we have
  a serious problem. ;-)
 
 It's a pointless page. The Welcome + Navbars contains all the information
 it has, so it just adds to the general clutter.
 
 Hen


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Re: [site] Removing things

2005-01-08 Thread Henri Yandell

On Sat, 8 Jan 2005, Martin Cooper wrote:
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 17:28:34 -0500 (EST), Henri Yandell
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On Sat, 8 Jan 2005, Martin Cooper wrote:
On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 20:50:28 -0500 (EST), Henri Yandell
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Next up is to clean up various bits on the large front page. Here's the
list of changes. For each one, if I don't hear a -1 by Tuesday I'll go
ahead and make the change.
4) Removal of Graduated from the left navbar.
I haven't kept up with all of the discussion in the last few days -
why are we removing this? IMHO, it's still valuable for the less
frequent visitor to our site.
Graduated is a confusing concept that we then have to somehow explain.
Then let's just call it Ex-Jakarta.
Seems okay :) I'll promote this suggestion to a new thread, see if anyone 
disagrees.

Additionally, how long would we maintain links to said projects etc?
6 months to a year.
Let me ask the reverse question: How long would you keep the link to a
subproject once it leaves? Would you remove it as soon as the project
leaves, or keep it around for a while? If the latter, why wouldn't you
move it to an Ex-Jakarta section instead?
Spent an hour pondering it, and I'm swayed by your arguments.
I'm happy too keep the links to old Jakarta sites. The only real problem 
it causes us is when things get closed (Avalon), but those projects should 
have sites kept up anyway.

By News section, I'd meant the front page. Given the tighter mock, an item 
in the news section of the front page is pretty prominent, but it's 
probably more valueable spacewise than the bottom left of the navbar, so 
maintaining links to ex-jakarta is much better.

7) Removal of Our Mission. Redirect to front page.
This seems to me like an important thing to have stated up front. If
what we have now isn't what we think we're about, we should fix it
rather than removing it. If we don't think we can fix it, then we have
a serious problem. ;-)
It's a pointless page. The Welcome + Navbars contains all the information
it has, so it just adds to the general clutter.
Any comment on this? Can 'Our Mission' go?
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[site] Label for promoted Jakarta project

2005-01-08 Thread Henri Yandell
At the bottom of the left hand navbar is a section of projects that used 
to be a part of Jakarta. It used to be Related and is currently Graduated, 
but neither name has won fans.

Martin has suggested 'Ex-Jakarta'. A problem with Graduated is that it 
involves explaining, and also that it is a poor label as it is not a noun. 
Ex-Jakarta wins on both of these.

Ex-Jakarta has another advantage that I see, which is that things don't 
have to goto an Apache TLP to be Ex-Jakarta. OJB for example, in 
db.apache.org, or even to somewhere like Sourceforge.

So, any opinions?
Barring any -1's to Ex-Jakarta, I'll make the change on Wednesday night.
Hen
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[Jakarta Wiki] Updated: SiteInfo

2005-01-08 Thread general
   Date: 2005-01-08T16:47:59
   Editor: HenriYandell
   Wiki: Jakarta Wiki
   Page: SiteInfo
   URL: http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/SiteInfo

   Updated, with planned times.

Change Log:

--
@@ -12,15 +12,17 @@
   a. Switch to three-column display - '''DONE'''
   a. Modification of XSL system to support mockup. - '''DONE'''
   a. Use of CSS. - '''DONE'''
- 1. Tighter front page - 
[http://www.apache.org/~bayard/mock-jakarta-frontpage.html].
+ 1. Tighter front page, 
[http://www.apache.org/~bayard/mock-jakarta-frontpage.html Mock] (tighter 
welcome message, new text under Products) - ''Hen on Tuesday''
  1. Delete content:
+  a. Remove licence renewal and news blog from Headlines section. Rename 
Headlines to News.  - ''Hen on Tuesday''
   a. Vendor page
   a. Acknowledgements page - Redirect to 
http://www.apache.org/foundation/thanks.html
-  a. Elsewhere news
-  a. Our Mission
+  a. Elsewhere news - ''Hen on Tuesday''
+  a. Our Mission - ''Hen on Tuesday''
   a. Newsletter Editor page
   a. Reference library
-  a. Related project stuff.
+  a. Related project table - ''Hen on Tuesday''
+ 1. Rename Graduated to Ex-Jakarta.  - ''Hen on Wednesday''
  1. Flatten Project Guidelines and all the other 'how to' pages into a 
shallower structure.
  1. Removal of silly pages:
   a. jon.html (and images)
@@ -31,13 +33,13 @@
   a. methodology.html (nothing links to this)
   a. jakarta-site-*.html (4 pages, with various links to them; however the 
content is bad)
  1. Move JSPA stuff to www.apache.org. ''Geir''.
- 1. Move Legal link from navbar to bottom of page. 
+ 1. Move Legal link from navbar to bottom of page. - ''Hen on Tuesday''
  1. Migrate to Subversion - [Site2 Conversion Instructions]. ''Tim''.
  1. Migration of reference pages into Foundation. ''Robert'' - '''ONGOING'''
  2. Improvement of download pages. Creation of cgi pages.
  3. [EMAIL PROTECTED] considerations. Indexing systems for javadoc, jars, 
downloads etc. IRC channel?
  4. SVN information in addition to CVS information.
- 5. Translation sites. What to do about them.
+ 5. Translation sites. What to do about them. Remove links. - ''Hen on 
Tuesday''
  6. Removal of information that may be found at [http://www.apache.org/dev/], 
the Incubator or other ASF locations.
  7. Posting of board reports to the site.
  8. Move 'In Memoriam' to the whoweare.html page in Feb 2005.

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Re: [site] Removing things

2005-01-08 Thread Martin Cooper
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 19:38:17 -0500 (EST), Henri Yandell
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 On Sat, 8 Jan 2005, Martin Cooper wrote:
 
  On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 17:28:34 -0500 (EST), Henri Yandell
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
  On Sat, 8 Jan 2005, Martin Cooper wrote:
 
  On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 20:50:28 -0500 (EST), Henri Yandell
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Next up is to clean up various bits on the large front page. Here's the
  list of changes. For each one, if I don't hear a -1 by Tuesday I'll go
  ahead and make the change.
 
  4) Removal of Graduated from the left navbar.
 
  I haven't kept up with all of the discussion in the last few days -
  why are we removing this? IMHO, it's still valuable for the less
  frequent visitor to our site.
 
  Graduated is a confusing concept that we then have to somehow explain.
 
  Then let's just call it Ex-Jakarta.
 
 Seems okay :) I'll promote this suggestion to a new thread, see if anyone
 disagrees.
 
  Additionally, how long would we maintain links to said projects etc?
 
  6 months to a year.
 
  Let me ask the reverse question: How long would you keep the link to a
  subproject once it leaves? Would you remove it as soon as the project
  leaves, or keep it around for a while? If the latter, why wouldn't you
  move it to an Ex-Jakarta section instead?
 
 Spent an hour pondering it, and I'm swayed by your arguments.
 
 I'm happy too keep the links to old Jakarta sites. The only real problem
 it causes us is when things get closed (Avalon), but those projects should
 have sites kept up anyway.

And hopefully what happened with Avalon won't happen very often...

 By News section, I'd meant the front page. Given the tighter mock, an item
 in the news section of the front page is pretty prominent, but it's
 probably more valueable spacewise than the bottom left of the navbar, so
 maintaining links to ex-jakarta is much better.
 
  7) Removal of Our Mission. Redirect to front page.
 
  This seems to me like an important thing to have stated up front. If
  what we have now isn't what we think we're about, we should fix it
  rather than removing it. If we don't think we can fix it, then we have
  a serious problem. ;-)
 
  It's a pointless page. The Welcome + Navbars contains all the information
  it has, so it just adds to the general clutter.
 
 Any comment on this? Can 'Our Mission' go?

I guess so. It just feels like something we should have, but, as you
mentioned, we don't really have much of anything to say at the moment.

--
Martin Cooper

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