Hello,
Daniel Savarese suggested that e-mail addresses on the "Who we are" page should not be
listed directly as a href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"[EMAIL PROTECTED]/a but as "foo at
bar.com".
This is will make it harder for spam robots to collect our e-mail addresses. For an
example of how
At 20:47 02.02.2001 +1100, you wrote:
At 09:22 2/2/01 +0100, Ceki Glc wrote:
Hello,
Daniel Savarese suggested that e-mail addresses on the "Who we are" page
should not be listed directly as a
href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"[EMAIL PROTECTED]/a but as "foo at bar.com".
good idea. Oh and just
At 16:01 06.02.2001 -0500, you wrote:
On 2/6/2001 at 9:13 PM Ceki Glc wrote:
What would be gained by refining the charter of Jakarta and pruning
projects?
Roy Fielding has indicated that some action is necessary. His two
suggestions were to either ask the board to create additional PMCs, or
to
At 06:56 11.02.2001 -0500, you wrote:
From the junit.org website:
JUnit is a regression testing framework written by Erich
Gamma and Kent Beck. It is used by the developer who
implements unit tests in Java.
I don't want to get into a discussion of whether JUnit is
good or bad that will
Pier,
I am not sure that Allaire is entirely insane. He says:
Open source is an intellectual-property destroyer ...
I can't imagine something that could be worse than
this for the software business and the
intellectual-property business.
It takes a huge amount of effort to build
At 17:14 22.02.2001 -0800, Jon Stevens wrote:
on 2/22/01 2:58 PM, "Kevin A. Burton" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think it is worth while to make the argument that as long as it is *either*
GPL or APL the license can still be under Apache. Why??? You can still use
the APL as much as you
Peter,
Thanks for your reply. My question was really about the logical meaning of dual
licensing. For example, assume that the GPL has requirements G1, G2, Gn and the APL
has requirements A1, A2, ..., Am, does dual licensing mean:
1) All of G1, G2, .., Gn, A1, A2, ..., Am must be satisfied.
At 20:07 23.02.2001 +1100, Peter Donald wrote:
At 09:54 23/2/01 +0100, Ceki Glc wrote:
Sure. A license to be worth the electrons it's written on must be
enforceable. Who is going to do the enforcing? In the GPL/APL case there
are two bodies involved, the FSF and the ASF. Say product X is dual
At 11:44 09.03.2001 -0800, Hans Bergsten wrote:
Sam Ruby wrote:
Below is the proposed agenda. Let me know if anybody would like to propose
any additions or changes.
We also need to discuss a venue. PMC members now span three continents, so
monthly face to face meetings are a wee bit
At 17:14 12.03.2001 -0500, Ted Husted wrote:
Jon Stevens wrote:
what is the status of integrating ted's changes into the main website?
If we're talking about
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/proposal.html
This is one hell of a document. I have one comment regarding the four voting colors
Hi Pete,
Voting is a serious matter. The results of a vote should be crystal clear as
ultimately it is the vote that allow us to make clear cut choices. The results of a
vote should not be tainted with uncertainty.
There is a difference between believing/supporting an idea and actively
At 22:12 14.03.2001 -0800, Jon Stevens wrote:
Ok,
I think this encoding stuff with Ceki's name is a bug in the OSX JVM that
I'm using, so we may have to revert back to using "u" for a bit until the
OSX GM is out and I can test/use that. :-( The weird thing is that I'm not
convinced that it is
Conor,
At 11:02 15.03.2001 +1100, Conor MacNeill wrote:
Ceki,
I would like to give you some feedback on the common directory layout
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/dirlayout.html
This is mostly from my Ant perspective and somewhat from my impression of
some other common practices in the
At 01:34 16.03.2001 +1100, Peter Donald wrote:
build directory
Many of the Jakarta projects put the build files in the project's root
directory and use the build directory for build results, such as build
classes which will be jarred up into the distribution
So by build/ you
At 02:46 16.03.2001 +1100, Peter Donald wrote:
At 04:17 15/3/01 +0100, Ceki Glc wrote:
A lot of projects use dist/, in my personal projects I use out/ while some
projects use bin/.
See, these names are like colors, blue, green, or yellow... At face value,
they are all equivalent. That's what I
Hi Jon,
A name change is a significant event in the life of a project. Could we formally ask
Sun if they see a problem with J2EEUnit keeping its name? The address is:
Sun Trademarks Brands Department
Sun Microsystems, Inc.
901 San Antonio Road, MS-PAL01-521
Palo Alto, CA 94303
Fax:
At 11:42 12.04.2001 -0400, Sam Ruby wrote:
At the last PMC meeting we scheduled the next PMC meeting for Monday, 16
April 2001 at 1900 GMT. Now that daylight savings time has swapped
hemispheres, it might make sense to revisit this.
The two somewhat workable times are 1200 GMT and 2000 GMT.
Hello,
I suppose this horse was thoroughly beaten to death but I still would like to hear
about the pros and cons of including binary files in CVS.
The advantages are:
- By including required jar files for an application, the installation becomes easier
as the user does not need to fetch
Hi Craig,
At 11:25 12.04.2001 -0700, Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
Whether or not there is a nice, easy, "all in one" download with
everything you need has absolutely nothing to do with whether binaries are
checked into CVS.
True. There is an important distinction indeed. Call it conventional
At 12:55 12.04.2001 -0700, Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
[removed text]
Why do you think that it is wrong to have binaries in CVS?
All the disadvantages you listed.
All the disadvantages Sam listed.
Sam objects to early binding. In other words to packages assuming a certain version of
a
At 15:04 12.04.2001 -0700, Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Ceki [iso-8859-1] Glc wrote:
At 12:55 12.04.2001 -0700, Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
[removed text]
Why do you think that it is wrong to have binaries in CVS?
All the disadvantages you listed.
All the
At 18:44 12.04.2001 -0700, Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Peter Donald wrote:
At 08:16 12/4/01 -0400, Sam Ruby wrote:
If you accept that you are in a world where interfaces that you are
depending on change frequently, then the problem to solve is optimizing the
Greetings,
After a three month wait, I am pleased to announce log4j version
1.1b2, a release candidate that should be soon sanctioned as 1.1 final
release.
Version 1.1beta2 is 100% backward compatible with log4j version 1.0.x,
even if 1.1beta1 was not. Thus it should be considered as a
Hello,
Are the last PMC meeting minutes available? Ceki
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Greetings,
Here are some pretty good news:
http://www.javaworld.com/jw-05-2001/jw-0504-finalists.html
Regards, Ceki
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At 15:03 07.05.2001 +0100, you wrote:
+1 also
Here are some comments I have after reading the dirlayout.html file (for the
first time, I have to admit. Actually I don't know where it is linked to on
the jakarta web site !) ...
I don't want to start a lengthy discussion (as it is very difficult
At 15:03 07.05.2001 +0100, you wrote:
+1 also
Here are some comments I have after reading the dirlayout.html file (for the
first time, I have to admit. Actually I don't know where it is linked to on
the jakarta web site !) ...
Almost forgot. dirlayout is not linked from anywhere because it is
At 08:36 08.05.2001 +1000, you wrote:
At 06:09 7/5/01 +0200, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
Unfortunately half projects use build for (1) and half use it for (2). My
recomendation would be to invent a new name for (1) that conflicts with no
existing project - perhaps intermediate. For (2) I recomend tools
At 18:36 08.05.2001 +1000, you wrote:
At 08:31 8/5/01 +0200, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
At 08:36 08.05.2001 +1000, you wrote:
At 06:09 7/5/01 +0200, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
Unfortunately half projects use build for (1) and half use it for
(2). My
recomendation would be to invent a new name for (1
At 15:22 08.05.2001 +0100, you wrote:
Peter Donald wrote:
The other group was
1. name of directory of generated local docs if any
2. name of directory of generated www docs if any
3. Whether local docs == www docs
Some projects don't have any generated docs in CVS. Others only have one
Hi Craig,
Ceki, could you expand on why you're objecting to the multistage build
process? I'm with Peter on this one ... multi-stage builds save time for
the developers (because they do the minimum amount of work required), and
also make the dist target work better:
- They reuse what's already
At 07:54 16.05.2001 -0400, you wrote:
Jon Stevens wrote:
Well, there haven't been many flame wars around here recently, so let me
start one. I seem to be good at that. :-)
What I propose is that we take this document (or one similar to it) and
migrate it up to the overall Jakarta Project
Hello,
This comes up from time to time and usually has me jump through the roof. Good willing
contributors, take a piece of existing log4j code, modify or enhance it, but remove
the previous author's names. They then post their code as if it was their own.
Regardless of how much they
it is a question of culture/custom.
I do not think we have a document outlining authorship rules. Does anyone know one?
Regards, Ceki
At 11:51 07.06.2001 -0700, you wrote:
on 6/7/01 11:42 AM, Ceki Gülcü [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This comes up from time to time and usually has me jump through
. Regards, Ceki
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At 01:24 08.06.2001 -0700, Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
I think this is really a significant question. How significant a patch
does it take for someone to legitimately be considered an additional
author of a particular source file? Attribution in a CVS commit should
always be there -- but is
At 10:58 13.06.2001 +1000, Peter Donald wrote:
At 01:37 AM 6/13/01 +0200, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
Greetings,
Here is a written critique of JSR47, the logging API shipped with
JDK 1.4:
http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html
If you agree with its contents, then you are encouraged
Greetings,
In just over 24 hours, over
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Greetings,
Since yesterday evening a non-negligible number of requests were directed to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] I find Ellis Teer's comments (included below) quite
interesting.
My critique of the JSR47 API can be found at:
http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/docs/critique.html
If you agree with
API shipped with JDK
1.4. Please cc: me if and when you choose do so. Thank you in advance.
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Hi Pier,
JSR47 is still in the public-review stage. Doesn't that mean that officially
alterations are still possible? Cheers, Ceki
At 00:43 13.06.2001 +0100, Pier P. Fumagalli wrote:
Ceki Gülcü at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Greetings,
Here is a written critique of JSR47, the logging API
but I am sure we can do better. It is becoming increasingly evident
that no one will be happy about the upcoming logging API from Sun. I
invite you to join our community in protest against the pollution of
the Java environment with dubious APIs.
Thank you in advance, Ceki Gülcü
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Hello,
We have a developer who would like to contribute a piece of code under the Apache
software license but at the same time would like to keep using the same piece of code
under a different (the original) license. I am sure this not the first time this
happens. How did the foundation deal
At 21:11 10.07.2001 +0200, Gunnar Rønning wrote:
* Alex Chaffee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
|
| Can we turn off the munging of headers that is currently adding
| Reply-to on all the jakarta lists?
I agree with this, but this case has been up before with some people
having very strong feelings about
now.
I also know I'm in ennemy territory here.
Cedric
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they are. Regards, Ceki
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-Vincent
- Original Message -
From: Ceki Gülcü [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: Apache logs problem
Hello Vincent,
Assuming you are using webalizer, have you tried using the -f (fold sequence
errors) and the -p (preserve state
/newproject.html
I will accept any patches against this document and/or direct commits from
PMC members.
:-)
-jon
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. I didn't know that. How incredibly smart
of you. Think about the synergies between Tomcat and Jboss!!! Wow!
Incredible.
and you think Jon is politically incorrect! Have you been on the
JBoss lists?
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Link of the day: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles
, tough. Just read the lists!
The only one being rude in this forum is you. Ceki
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Link of the day: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40473-2001Oct10.html
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to? Disagreement != insult.
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Link of the day: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40473-2001Oct10.html
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on the same issue time and again, a wait
period of 12 months is necessary between two referenda on the same
or nearly the same issue.
3) Keeps things as they are and hope for the best.
Regards, Ceki
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;
}
is
public void setSomethingComplicated(Object sometingComplicateed){
this.somethingComplicated = somethingComplicated;
}
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At 06:57 04.01.2002 -0500, you wrote:
On 1/4/02 6:43 AM, Ceki Gülcü [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jan 2002 06:03:43 -0800, Sam Ruby wrote:
If some particular codebase under the Jakarta umbrella consistently
chose to take actions which were inconsistent with the Apache mission
will not instigate revolution! I will not instigate revolution!
Regards, Bart.
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, drink cocktails and fornicate day in day out.
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yadda.
So I +1 on suggesting standards for external parts of project, -1 for forcing
it
Indeed, that seems to be the consensus.
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. :-(
Anyway, it looks like e-mail that I send now gets through so let me take
advantage of it while I can...
Ceki Gülcü wrote:
If some particular codebase under the Jakarta umbrella consistently
chose to take actions which were inconsistent with the Apache mission,
then I'm confident that the PMC would
? SourceForgeII?
How about all the C++ projects in XML land?
When do you think ApacheGrabBag/SourceForgeII and the httpd projects
could be merged?
Seriously, I think the idea is worth our consideration. Regards, Ceki
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At 10:35 04.01.2002 -0800, you wrote:
on 1/4/02 3:28 AM, Ceki Gülcü [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
All Java Language source code in the repository must be written in
conformance to the Code Conventions for the Java Programming Language
as published by Sun. However, some projects may decide
someone voting -1 means end of discussion.
I dare anyone to -1 that. Regards, Ceki
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opinion about it, which package with which existing project.
Ciao
Chris
-
agitateur depuis toujours
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At 18:02 05.01.2002 -0500, you wrote:
Ceki Gülcü wrote:
IMHO, XML does not and will never have a community as long as two of
its most important projects directly compete with each other. The
success of one is related with the failure of the other. XML
Community? Won't happen in a million
a different wording?
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include software that
runs on the client but excludes software that runs *only* on client.
So, the word server-side might require some further clarification, but removing it
completely is not just a cosmetic change. It means opening the flood-gates.
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to step up and take
over the PMC chairmanship?
p.s. I have no interest in being PMC Chair.
-jon
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(I left this .sig in on purpose, because this quote is from Sam and I think
it is funny based on the question.)
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other place I know is my family.
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]
-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Building Java web applications with Struts.
-- Tel +1 585 737-3463.
-- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/
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System and Software Consulting
You're going to end up getting pissed at your software
anyway, so you might as well not pay for it. Try Open Source.
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would be initiated.
- Sam Ruby
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on the topic.
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and will eventually put
Bugzilla out of business. More info: http://scarab.tigris.org/
thanks,
-jon
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The following is from http://www.ibiblio.org/java/#recent
I have a request to make of the log4j team, as well as all the other
Java programmers at the Apache Project, IBM alphaWorks, Sun, and
everyone else who distributes JAR archives. Could you please attach a
version number to all your JARs?
-1
I disagree with this change because it gives the impression that
LogKit is a top level jakarta project which is not the case. The
addition is placed just to log4j giving the impression that the two
packages have equal footing. This misleads the users to think there
are two logging packages
be overstated.
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At 16:17 06.03.2002 -0600, you wrote:
-1
I'm not sure we need this at all.
I disagree. I think we definitely need a solid document countering the
idyllic but false world depicted
by the FSF. It's just a gargantuan task to come up with a such a document.
Regards, Ceki
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At 14:47 22.03.2002 -0800, you wrote:
- Audience and Marketing:
The document is directed towards people who may not be familiar
with all the projects that exist under the Jakarta umbrella.
Specifically, it is directed towards users, who hope to find
something useful for their own projects.
Hello all,
Given that log4j is such a low-level library, most organizations are
suspicious to tie their code to log4j, especially considering the new
logging API in JDK 1.4.
Before going forward, it is appropriate to mention that these two APIs
are very similar. The classical usage pattern
At 11:49 27.03.2002 -0600, Rodney Waldhoff wrote:
But this isn't really the reason commons-logging was created. Note that
most of the commons components are just that--tiny libraries meant to be
integrated/incorporated into larger frameworks and larger applications.
Some of these components
At 15:18 27.03.2002 -0600, Morgan Delagrange wrote:
Here's the problem, as I see it.
Suppose Commons component A decides to adopt Log4J, Commons component B
decides to adopt LogKit, and Commons component C adopts JDK1.4 logging.
They will all minimally function with the right jars in the
Costin, Morgan, Rodney,
Thanks for the lively discussion and sharing your points of view. My intent
was to warn users of the dangers of using common-logging. I have done
my bit. Cheers, Ceki
At 16:31 27.03.2002 -0600, Morgan wrote:
I believe the order of precedence is well documented. I think
At 15:10 28.03.2002 -0600, Morgan Delagrange wrote:
Where is this world where everyone uses Log4J?
That world = (world - jakarta)
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At 15:30 28.03.2002 -0600, Morgan Delagrange wrote:
I am pro-Log4J. I wish I lived in that Log4J-only world (until/unless
something better came along). Generally, commons-logging neither encourages
nor discourages use of Log4J. However, I would argue that it _does_
encourage Log4J a bit by
At 16:33 28.03.2002 -0600, you wrote:
Sun's me-too strategy is bound to fail. The question is whether the
bigger jakarta community is going to help us defeat JSR47 or stand in
the way.
That's a bit harsh, isn't it?
Hmm, maybe it is. What I am trying to say is that I would have liked
to
won't matter.
At 15:17 28.03.2002 -0800, you wrote:
On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
True. It does encourage it, but only initially. On the long run,
however, people will run into problems with their logging (as is
happening now). They will say this commons-logging+log4j stuff is too
At 00:57 29.03.2002 +0100, Paulo Gaspar wrote:
Ceki,
What about making clear that commons-logging is only supposed to be
used by other components so that the application developer picks
the logging API that suits him best?
That seems to be the intent of commons-logging. I have pointed out
the
Wait a minute, I know you... You are the apricot
(http://sourceforge.net/projects/apricot/) guy. In the fairy tale The
Emperor's new clothes, what was the name of the child who calls
He's naked. The man in the crown is naked
Was it Vladimir Bossicard?
At 18:28 28.03.2002 -0800, you
anything. It would be a nice experiment.
At 12:46 29.03.2002 +1100, you wrote:
On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:38, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
1) logging calls are made thousands of times so the indirection through
an equalizer API (like commons-logging) has a performance impact
Not in modern JVMs (read most almost
Good point, except that the loop length was 100'000'000 so the cost of the
first 10'000 calls would be dwarfed by the remaining 99'990'000. Of course
there is also:
~/java Indirect 1
log4j: Parsing threshold string [WARN]
log4j: Could not find root logger information. Is this OK?
log4j:
At 18:28 28.03.2002 -0800, you wrote:
god no. The avalon group was already using a facade logger long before
commons was for much the same reason commons adopted one.
Is Avalon still using its own facade logger or changed to commons-logging?
I'm just wondering: How many Jakarta projects use
At 15:36 29.03.2002 +, Danny Angus wrote:
Now that you can (well, soon) legally implement JSR47's, you
might was well
support their interfaces and semantics, and then 'embrace and
extend'. Just
do the JSR47 stuff better :)
Could Log4J now become an RI of JSR47 ? (I'm still not
Hi all,
A commercial company, after changing its business orientation, recently
proposed to
donate a rather large chuck of code, essentially a log4j extension, to the
log4j project.
Do we need to have them sign any paperwork? Assuming they post the source
code
(under the Apache Software
Your explanation is crystal clear. I'll organize a vote on the
donation just to make sure that we really want the code. Thanks again, Ceki
At 23:58 11.04.2002 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Ceki [iso-8859-1] Gülcü wrote:
A commercial company, after changing its
The results of a recent vote show that the log4j community has strong interest
in the donation. Is there a document that I can present to the donator for
signature?
I assume this document is NOT the Contributor License Agreement because
that document applies to individuals, not corporations.
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