Re: VOTE: Tomcat - TLP
The question: I vote in support of the proposal to move Tomcat to an Apache Top Level Project as detailed in the attached Resolution. [ ] +1 Vote in support [ ] 0 Abstain [ ] -1 Vote against +1 Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how do i switch from tdk 2.2 to tdk 2.3 without a mess
The FIRST thing you do is figure out on which list to ask your question. Cross-Posting to every list you can find WILL NOT get you *ANY* useful answers. Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: www.apache.org down?
Power outage in the SF area due to a substation fire. Conor -Original Message- From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Vic Cekvenich Sent: Sunday, 21 December 2003 11:52 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: www.apache.org down? It seems that www.apache.org and jakarta.apache.org, etc. are down. Could be my isp but... .V ps: open source != closed list - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Client authentication
On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 03:20 am, Josep Riudavets wrote: Any tip? Thanks all Josep Josep, This list is for the management of the Apache Jakarta project. Questions regarding httpd should be directed to the httpd project. Find the appropriate list here http://httpd.apache.org/lists.html Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] Future Of Turbine-JCS
On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:41 am, robert burrell donkin wrote: (we've done some talking on the pmc list and turbineers have discussed this in the past but since it's not really confidential i'm starting this thread to give everyone a chance to participate.) Have we asked the JCS developers what they want to do? We may be better off telling them that they should change their organization and let them decide what is the most appropriate move to make. Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gump and Unicode
On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 01:05 am, Brian Ewins wrote: Use the unicode escapes rather than the character literals in the code? You won't get DoubleMetaphone.java to compile unless you pass the encoding flag to javac. The two letters appear to be \u00C7, \u00D1 - capital C with a cedilla and capital N with a tilde? Putting case '\u00C7': case '\u00D1': in the appropriate places should fix things. Or add the encoding attribute to the javac task. The file may remain more readable that way, at least on some platforms. I'm not sure if that is possible from a Maven generated build file. Just to be clear this is not a Gump issue - I think the problem would appear whenever you try to compile on any platform with a different default encoding. Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun
On Thu, 29 May 2003 12:26 am, Steven Noels wrote: watcher, I'm becoming part of the wind itself. :-D Yeah, prunes will do that. Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Using daedalus to deploy the httpclienttest.war
On Thu, 6 Mar 2003 03:38 pm, Nick Chalko wrote: War's, like jars are the kind of artifacts that the ASF repository should support. Sure, but there is a difference between being able to access/download a war and being able to interact with a war within a servlet container. Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Another unused import statement report is out...
Simon Brooke wrote: Do you have a tool for checking for unused imports? I know I have a lot of them in my code, but weeding them takes time and time is something I'm always short of... There are a few - Tom's tool, PMD, will do it, while checkstyle will also do it. Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PMC Nomination
Stephen Colebourne wrote: Unless I am mistaken, being a PMC member implies an overseing role for the whole of jakarta, No, not quite, IMHO. The PMC as a *whole* has an oversight role for the whole of Jakarta but individual PMC members do not need to oversee all of Jakarta. In fact this is the nub of the reorg issues which have been floating around. AIUI, the 7 member PMC approach was felt not to be able to adequately cover all of Jakarta and the PMC must grow to adequately provide oversight. Eventually most consistently active committers will join the PMC. This is the httpd model, for example. Sam is moving from where we have been to that point in a series of steps. a requirement to follow PMC issues and votes and to be a manager. Whilst the concept of being able to push forward jakarta, JSRs, make decisions etc is appealing, I do not believe that I have the time available to do the job. Hell, I already lack the time to fully oversee the commons-lang, commons-collections and commons-clazz projects that I am involved with as I would like :-) If you are providing oversight of these projects, even to the extent you have time available, you are already filling one of the roles of a PMC member. If you have acted as a release manager, then you have performed a purely PMC role. All releases of Jakarta sub-projects must be approved by the PMC. This isn't something that has been done in Jakarta to date, really, but will be increasingly the case as the PMC expands. To quote Sam Longer term, the plan is to move the subprojects that chose to remain in Jakarta towards becoming a single community - in particular release votes will become a responsibility of the PMC. That does not mean that all PMC members will vote on all releases, but that it will be from this pool of members that release votes will be cast. Clearly there will need to be a number waves of additions like the one above to the PMC before we get to this point. So, unless someone magically wants to convince me otherwise, I must respectfully decline the pressgang. Well, have I convinced you? Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PMC Nomination
Pier Fumagalli wrote: On 19/2/03 21:31 Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is not a convincing enough argument to make me change my point of view. Pier Fair enough. I think it is fair to interpret the paragraph you quoted The PMC is responsible for the strategic direction and success of the Jakarta Project. This governing body is expected to ensure the project's welfare and guide its overall direction. as the PMC *collectively* not the PMC members *individually*. A bit like saying the government is responsible for running the country. That doesn't mean every minister will have expertise in every portfolio (using the political lingo of the country in which I reside). I know in reality that many ministers have no expertise at all but this is just an analogy :-) Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
Sam Ruby wrote: On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I propose to nominate Glen Stampoultzis On 16 Jan 2003, Martin van den Bemt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also want ask you to also nominate Robert Burrel Donkin. +1 to both. +1 Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New Jakarta proposal: Pluto
Stefan Hepper wrote: Hi all, I would like to propose a new Jakarta project, named Pluto, that should provide the reference implementation of the JSR 168 Portlet Specification. Please see http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?PlutoProposal for more details (I've also attached the proposal below). Regards, Stefan Stefan, Are you aware of the apache incubator? I assume this would have to go through the incubator first. Are we still using Jyve for FAQs (or am I thinking of the wrong Jyve)? Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New Jakarta proposal: Pluto
Steven Noels wrote: I was trying not to post the obvious, but yes: this seems largely premature. No code, a restricted community, too much committers coming from one company, I've seen better proposals being fought over lately. Also, possible future integration 'ideas' with some related projects would be comforting (Jetspeed, Tomcat, Struts/Tiles, and the Cocoon portal framework for a starter). Steven, I think these are exactly the sort of questions incubator is designed to answer. Tapestry was about seeing how an existing project can come into Apache. Perhaps Pluto is an opportunity to understand how a new project can be created and encouraged at Apache. They are both interesting challenges for the incubator. As for your issues, No code is true (for now) but that is the sort of project Pluto represents. If at the end, the incubator PMC decides that the project still has the problems you identify (if they are in fact problems), then the project should remain in incubation until the community is self supporting, or be discontinued, whatever. That is a decision for further down the track, I think.It would seem to me that if JetSpeed is in scope for Jakarta, IMHO, a reference implementation at Apache of a Portal standard would be appropriate, especially considering JetSpeed is already at Jakarta. I'm not into portals myself so I can't really comment on the project's merits beyond that. Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
Sam Ruby wrote: P.S. My vote is +1 on all. +1 for all. Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: O'Reilly Network: Why JSP Sucks So Hard
Andrew C. Oliver wrote: http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/user/view/wlg/2423 Yawn. Not another JSP Sux discussion :-( Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discussion] jakarta-gump as community property
Sam Ruby wrote: Considering all of this, what I would like to propose is that the contents of jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump get moved to jakarta-gump, all committers to any jakarta code base be given karma and voting rights on the full contents (descriptors, code, and stylesheets alike) and that a single [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing be created (we are all devs here, right?) +1 Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [POLL] OS of choice
Jon Scott Stevens wrote: I added a simple poll for Jakarta developers. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/os.html Please update the site with your preferences. Could I please have site karma? Thanks Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Micael, I am sorry that you think of yourself as one to be believed as dim-witted, because I know that I never inferred anything of the sort. Do you have some issues you would like to talk about?. Isn't it ironic how everyone continues bash MicroSoft because they make such horrible products, yet everyone wanted the sourcecode released. If it is such garbage, why would anyone want it??? clip God, some people! clip As for my comments being worth the time saying, you and James did read them and feel a need to respond. So maybe they were worth it after all. Personally, I don't really want or need to see Microsoft's code. What I would like to see is their file formats, protocols and APIs being documented so that other developers, open-source or otherwise, can interoperate and compete with their products. Then I can choose to use or not to use Microsoft products as I please. I'd also like to see all that provided royalty free and unencumbered by patents, submarine or otherwise. I haven't really flirted with the whole C#/.NET thing but this seems to remain a question mark over Mono and even the ECMA standardization. Anyway, back to more pleasant dreams ... Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JSP Document Support in Tomcat 4.x
Ragy Eleish wrote: Hi, I wrote a JSP document that mixes JSP XML tags with XHTML tags as follows, where I used a JSP expression to calculate the XHTML tag's attribute value (src=%=url2%). Jasper wasn't able to convert it correctly, it didn't recognize that this is a JSP expression but took the value as is. Meaning the final HTML was (src=%=url2%) and not (src=http://www.lycos.com;). The main purpose of mixing XHML and JSP tags is to get a well formed document. I understand that the Spec is a little vague, but is there a plan to support that? I couldn't tell you - try asking this question on a tomcat list. Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reorganizing to support mirroring
Currently the Jakarta project's builds are not mirrored along with the rest of the Apache site. For example, check this out ftp://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/apache/dist/jakarta/README.txt To support mirroring, Joshua Slive, who has been looking at the issue, believes the following changes will be required to the structure of the Jakarta download area and webpages 1. All the nightly builds need to be targeted someplace else. I suggest cvs.apache.org:/www/cvs.apache.org/builds/ but www.apache.org:/www/jakarta.apache.org/nightly/ could also work. This is just too much stuff to be pushing out to the mirrors every night. 1a. Remove all the nightly directories from www.apache.org:/www/jakarta.apache.org/builds/ 2. Move www.apache.org:/www/jakarta.apache.org/builds/ to www.apache.org:/www/www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/ and provide a redirect (either via .htaccess or httpd.conf). 3. Change the links from the jakarta webpages to point at http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/jakarta/ (and subdirectories thereof). Obviously this represents a fairly major change to all Jakarta sub projects in terms of nightly build processes, web page links etc. I'd like to start a discussion about this here now. I think mirroring is obviously something we should support but we're going to need to go through some migration process to get from where we are today to the above. Any thoughts on the best way to achieve this smoothly :-) ? Cheers Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: You guys are so funny.
Jeff Schnitzer wrote: Hear hear! (But go emacs! ;-) B... vi rules! Ed is the standard text editor. When I went to Uni. vi was considered too resource intensive - you had to use ed. ed rocks (well not really) Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BTW - You guys aren't so funny.
Sam Ruby wrote: Just thought I would let you know. - Sam Ruby +1 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [New Subproject Proposal] ObjectBridge
Jason van Zyl wrote: Hi, I would like to propose ObjectRelationalBridge (http://objectbridge.sourceforge.net/) as a top level subproject of Jakarta. +1 Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [VOTE] Switching development to C#
Erik, Are you talking to your office documents again? :-) Conor -Original Message- From: Erik Hatcher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 2 April 2002 1:43 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: [VOTE] Switching development to C# Ummm, if you're using .NET wouldn't you be able to natively talk (COM, perhaps) to Office documents, thereby obliviating the need for POI altogether?! :) (this is said jokingly, but if I'm off base then feel free to enlighten me). Erik - Original Message - From: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 10:25 PM Subject: RE: [VOTE] Switching development to C# I've been thinking about it...Perhaps we shouldn't port POI over to C#, perhaps we should utilize the full power of .NET and port it to all 7-13 languages it supports currently! Meaning POIFS = VB.NET HSSF = C# HPSF = PERL.NET HDF = J# I mean, thats one degree of separation! Think of all the advantages learning all of these different languages (sadly I know them all except for C#/J# which you could argue I know via knowing Java). Gosh! That should help POI out tremendously. -Andy On Mon, 2002-04-01 at 20:15, Paulo Gaspar wrote: Do you have anything against Fortran or Cobol? There will be .Net implementations for those, you know? And we could leverage the power of all those legacy academic and enterprise programmers. (I bet there are a lot of Cobol guys getting a lot of free time on their hands after the Y2K mess.) Paulo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 10:10 PM To: Jakarta General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [VOTE] Switching development to C# On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Marc wrote: Having become convinced by Andy that C# and .NET are the wave of the future, I'm proposing that we switch poi development to C#. To the Jakarta community at large: will this affect our status as a Jakarta project? I mean, I can see where a lot of projects are eventually going to follow this same path ... I'm ok with using .NET, but I think you should use BASIC as language, not C#. .NET is language independent, and other jakarta projects already switched to BASIC. Costin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.superlinksoftware.com http://jakarta.apache.org/poi - port of Excel/Word/OLE 2 Compound Document format to java http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555.html - fix java generics! The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -Ambassador Kosh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LICENSE in .jar files
acoliver wrote: I do. I was just curious. Have you a licence for that? :-) It's a mad world. Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: LICENSE in .jar files
-Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 21 March 2002 1:03 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: RE: LICENSE in .jar files So could a non-tainted person through black box testing produce their own JAXP clone? -Andy I don't know. IANAL. We really do need a lawyer. Anyway, in my view, you would not be able to legally run such a reverse engineered clone on a Sun JDK From the JDK 1.4 licence. Java Technology Restrictions. You may not modify the Java Platform Interface (JPI, identified as classes contained within the java package or any subpackages of the java package), by creating additional classes within the JPI or otherwise causing the addition to or modification of the classes in the JPI. In the event that you create an additional class and associated API(s) which (i) extends the functionality of the Java platform, and (ii) is exposed to third party software developers for the purpose of developing additional software which invokes such additional API, you must promptly publish broadly an accurate specification for such API for free use by all developers. You may not create, or authorize your licensees to create, additional classes, interfaces, or subpackages that are in any way identified as java, javax, sun or similar convention as specified by Sun in any naming convention designation. Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: LICENSE in .jar files
-Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 21 March 2002 1:10 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: RE: LICENSE in .jar files BTW. Define: release ;-) I guess it would be up to a court to define release :-) I don't know what it means :-) There are similar definition problems with terms such as distribution. Does providing a jar in CVS consistute distribution. Probably does. Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: PMC Chair elelection
Pete, From: Peter Donald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 14 March 2002 7:56 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: PMC Chair elelection +1 to Sam being chair regardless of whether he wants to or not ;) Nothing but good has come out of it so far so why mess with a good thing? Pete, True. The idea was to give any other folks who wanted to give it a shot, the opportunity to put themselves forward. It seems clear that if Sam is agreeable, he would be the only candidate, though I must acknowledge Geir, who indicated his willingness, even while supporting Sam. So Sam, if you are willing, a simple set of +1 votes from the PMC should be sufficient. Let me add mine to those already expressed. +1 Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
PMC Chair elelection
The first order of business for the new PMC is the election of a Chair. Would all PMC members indicate if they would be willing to act as Chair for the next 12 months. Once each PMC member has indicated their availability, we can proceed to an election. If there are more than three candidates, I propose a preferential voting system where each PMC member gives numbered preferences. If no candiate has a clear majority, the votes from the candidate with the least number of votes are distributed according to the indicated preferences. This process continues until one candidate has a majority (4 votes). If you are not happy with this process, that's OK - just -1 this email and propose an alternative. Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JakartaOne
Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Heck from the East Coast US right now its cheaper to fly/stay in Europe than the west coast (go figure). For kicks I investigated hotel prices in the area WHOA! For about 2-$300 right now I can get to Munich (highly suggest for a get together). Hotels in Munich in the off season drop to like 110 marks ($50) a night to stay in the thick of things (with bathroom and shower), Europe is a wonderful place to spend dollars (especially when the currency sinks!). The only nasty thing is that there 7-10 hour flight! That's short-haul from my part of the world :-) Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
PMC Nomination
Hi, I would like to nominate Diane Holt for the PMC. Diane is a current PMC member and a committer on the Ant subproject. I think Diane brings a somewhat different perspective from the typical hardcore developer types here at Jakarta. I think that balance would be a good thing for the PMC. Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: the .tar.gz extension
Andy Armstrong wrote: Is this perhaps because the server they're on is sending them using gzip encoding which means that the browser expands them as it downloads. Apache does that. If you have index.html.gz for example it'll be served compressed and expanded by the browser. Yes, I believe this is the case. Unfortunately, in my experience (Mozilla) the file still gets saved with the .gz extension when it is in fact a tar file. That can be a little confusing. When gzip complains, I immediately suspect that the download screwed up :-) Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Managing project documentation (release vs CVS versions) ?
You don't have to use a branch - just check out with the release tag. It is sticky and will not get updated by cvs update. Conor -Original Message- From: Vincent Massol [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 17 January 2002 10:45 AM To: 'Jakarta General List' Subject: RE: Managing project documentation (release vs CVS versions) ? I should have thought about this ... stupid me ... Thanks. -Vincent -Original Message- From: Peter Donald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 16 January 2002 23:38 To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Managing project documentation (release vs CVS versions) ? The recomended solution for this is to use a branch. ie When you make a release you also branch at same instant. Then if you need to update the current web docs you modify them in the branch, then update the website (which is using last branch released). If you need to update the docs for the current CVS then you do it in the main trunk/HEAD revision. When needed you merge the branch back into the main trunk. However I don't know of any projects that do this except for ant. It may also require a bit more CVS savvy that normal but should be possible to do if that is what cactus/whatever needs. On Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:34, Vincent Massol wrote: Hi, I have always been pondering how to best manage the following. Should there be 2 web sites per project : one for the latest release (containing docs + javadoc corresponding to the latest release) and one for nightly builds (containing docs + javadocs corresponding to the latest code) ? When I work on a new feature that I want to document, I cannot document it in the xdocs/ directory because next time I change something for the web site and I want to make that change visible, it will also contain the new feature documentation. However, that feature is only present in CVS (not released yet) and users will have trouble understanding why this feature does not work with the code they downloaded. Of course, I could have a header that says WARNING: Feature only available in CVS but it is awkward. Another solution is to have 2 xdocs directory but again this is awkward ... Any idea ? How are other projects doing this ? Thanks -Vincent ___ Vincent Massol OCTO Technology UK Ltd www.octo.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: (020) 8996 9540 -- Cheers, Pete *--* | Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want | | to test a man's character, give him power. | | -Abraham Lincoln | *--* -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
release signing policy?
Hi, Having read all this stuff about what is Jakarta, what is the PMC's role, etc reminded me of something which I think should be addressed at PMC level, if not higher - the policy of signing releases. We have put something in place at a subproject level for Ant but I think an overall policy is desirable. I had a quick look at the latest release or beta of most project release directories. As far as I can tell, this is the status: Ant, Avalon, Tomcat 3.3 are signed. Taglibs appears to be signed but I didn't check its vast array of release components. BCEL, ECS, ORO, Regexp, Velocity and XMLRpc have md5 files but no signatures All others do not appear to be signed. Of the releases that are signed, all use .asc files for the signature except Avalon-Framework which uses .sig files (although its verify example uses .asc). I think a consistent, Jakarta-wide policy of signing distributions would be a good thing. Currently the subprojects that do sign their releases have their own KEYS file. Should there be a central Jakarta-wide KEYS file? Apache-wide? I can write or draft some text on how to go about signing a distribution. Perhaps it could be part of a committer howto page dealing with how to put togther a release. I don't mean the subproject specific stuff but other stuff like where you put releases, adding README.html, maybe even tagging and branching suggestions. It may even be good to move the full CVS access info into this area - whatever. Let me know your thoughts. Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: More abuse of coding styles...
From: Berin Loritsch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Just beware of this bug:
public void setSomething(Object somthing) { // something misspelled
this.something = something;
}
Don't you use a spell checker on your code?
Actually this problem is one reason why it is better to use single letter
variable names. You can't spell them incorrectly.
:-) :-) :-)
Anyone seen the groundhog yet?
Conor
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Re: Code conventions
Ted Husted wrote: Peter, I hope you and yours are well. The Australian Black Christmas is all over the morning news here. The smoke is pretty thick here right now even in the city suburbs. Having all your windows shut up when the outside temperature is in the mid thirties isn't fun. Of course, we are better off than those who live on the edge of the bush. Anyway, Ted, I'm sure Peter isn't too concerned, he is about 800 km away, in Melbourne. We do like their helicopter though. Conor :-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PATCH] info on unsubscribing
Hi, Attached is a patch to the mailing list guidelines. It provides some info on moderation process and also a new section on how to unsubscribe. It may be more appropriate for unsubscribe info to be on a separate page but I thought it was worth getting people to think about this when they subscribe rather than when they want to unsubscribe. Feel free to change it around if you prefer. Conor ? mail.patch Index: site/mail.xml === RCS file: /home/cvspublic/jakarta-site2/xdocs/site/mail.xml,v retrieving revision 1.20 diff -3 -u -w -p -r1.20 mail.xml --- site/mail.xml 2001/12/08 00:11:17 1.20 +++ site/mail.xml 2001/12/13 12:47:20 @@ -93,7 +93,7 @@ This will almost guarantee that you will If your email is more than about a page of text, chances are that it won't get read by very many people. It is much better to try to pack a lot of informative information (see above about asking smart questions) -into as small of an email as possible. If you are replying to a previous +into as small an email as possible. If you are replying to a previous email, it is a good idea to only quote the parts that you are replying to and to remove the unnecessary bits. This makes it easier for people to follow a thread as well as making the email archives easier to search @@ -147,6 +147,16 @@ some people may only see half of the con /p p +strongSummary: Unsubscribed posts require approval/strong.br/ +If you post to a list from an address which is not subscribed to that list, +your post will require approval by the list owner. This helps to reduce spam +to the list. Due to the workload of the list owner and the timezone in +which they operate it may be several hours before the post is approved +and appears on the list. Please do not send your message repeatedly in +this case - you will just annoy the list owner. +/p + +p strongNow that you have read the guidelines above/strong, a href=./mail2.htmlstronghere/strong/a is the page that gives you a listing of the different mailing lists that you can join. If you @@ -155,6 +165,45 @@ you will be sent back here to read it ag get answered. So, you might as well take the time now to read it and save yourself from looking like a fool. /p + +/section + +section name=Unsubscribing +p +When you subscribe to a list, you will receive a welcome message from the +list management software. Please do not delete this message. It contains +useful information about your subscription and instructions on how to +interact with the list manager, including how to unsubscribe yourself. +/p + +pIn some instances, corporate mail gateways may alter your outgoing +email address so that the address under which you subscribed is no longer +the same as the address that appears when you send email. This can make it +more difficult to unsubscribe. In this situation you need to determine +the address under which you are subscribed. On the next message you +receive from the list, examine the email headers. In partcular look +for the quot;Return-Path:quot; header. It will look something like this +/p +source +Return-Path: lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; +/source +pIn this example, your subscription address for the ant-user list is +quot;[EMAIL PROTECTED]quot;. You may now unsubscribe by sending an empty +email to the following address +/p +source [EMAIL PROTECTED] +/source +pwhere, obviously, you substitute your subscribed address for +quot;blah=foobar.comquot; +/p + +pstrongDo not send unsubscribe requests to the list./strong If, +after following the above instructions, you still have trouble unsubscribing +please contact the list owner. Sending unsubscribe requests to the list +or appending them to an active thread just disturbs the list members, +most of whom cannot help you. +/p /section -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PATCH] info on unsubscribing
Are there any known issues with unsubscribing people? Don't know - I get the odd request from people who can't seem to unsubscribe. I have often found that they think their email address is one thing but some downstream system changes it on them and they never realize that :-(. I have been able to unsubscribe most. I just thought this would help some people who have trouble and who throw away the welcome message. Haven't noticed any country code correlation. Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Vote] BCEL @ Jakarta
Jason van Zyl wrote: Hi, I now have a proposal for BCEL which can be found here: http://www.apache.org/~jvanzyl/jakarta-bcel +1 My non-binding +1 Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PATCH] update news with Ant 1.4.1 release
Hi, Attached is a patch wth news of the Ant 1.4.1 release. Thanks Index: docs/site/binindex.html === RCS file: /home/cvspublic/jakarta-site2/docs/site/binindex.html,v retrieving revision 1.105 diff -u -w -r1.105 binindex.html --- docs/site/binindex.html 2001/10/11 23:55:15 1.105 +++ docs/site/binindex.html 2001/10/12 12:34:37 @@ -189,7 +189,7 @@ Release Builds /h2 ul -lia href=http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-ant/release/v1.4/bin/;Ant 1.4/a/li +lia href=http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-ant/release/v1.4.1/bin/;Ant +1.4.1/a/li lia href=http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-avalon/release/framework/v4.0;Avalon Framework 4.0/a/li lia href=http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-avalon/release/excalibur/v4.0;Avalon Excalibur 4.0/a/li lia href=http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-cactus/release/v1.2/;Cactus 1.2/a/li @@ -211,7 +211,6 @@ Milestone Builds /h2 ul -lia href=http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-ant/release/v1.4.1b1/;Ant 1.4.1 beta 1/a/li lia href=http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-avalon/release/logkit/latest/;Avalon LogKit 1.0 beta 5/a/li lia href=http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-avalon/release/phoenix/latest/;Avalon Phoenix 4.0 alpha 1/a/li lia href=http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-lucene/release/v1.2-rc1/;Lucene 1.2 Release Candidate 1/a/li Index: docs/site/news.html === RCS file: /home/cvspublic/jakarta-site2/docs/site/news.html,v retrieving revision 1.103 diff -u -w -r1.103 news.html --- docs/site/news.html 2001/10/11 23:55:15 1.103 +++ docs/site/news.html 2001/10/12 12:34:56 @@ -139,6 +139,11 @@ /td/tr trtd blockquote +h311 October 2001 - Ant 1.4.1 Released/h3 +pThis is a bugfix release for Ant +1.4 which corrects a number of small issues. +Download it +a href=http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-ant/release/v1.4.1/;here/a./p +hr size=1 noshade= / h37 October 2001 - Tomcat 4.0.1 Beta 1 Released/h3 pThis is a release candidate for Tomcat 4.0.1, which is a maintenance release of Tomcat 4.0. Download it Index: xdocs/site/binindex.xml === RCS file: /home/cvspublic/jakarta-site2/xdocs/site/binindex.xml,v retrieving revision 1.88 diff -u -w -r1.88 binindex.xml --- xdocs/site/binindex.xml 2001/10/07 18:51:51 1.88 +++ xdocs/site/binindex.xml 2001/10/12 12:35:22 @@ -70,7 +70,7 @@ /h2 ul -lia href=http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-ant/release/v1.4/bin/;Ant 1.4/a/li +lia href=http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-ant/release/v1.4.1/bin/;Ant +1.4.1/a/li lia href=http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-avalon/release/framework/v4.0;Avalon Framework 4.0/a/li lia href=http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-avalon/release/excalibur/v4.0;Avalon Excalibur 4.0/a/li lia href=http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-cactus/release/v1.2/;Cactus 1.2/a/li @@ -94,7 +94,6 @@ /h2 ul -lia href=http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-ant/release/v1.4.1b1/;Ant 1.4.1 beta 1/a/li lia href=http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-avalon/release/logkit/latest/;Avalon LogKit 1.0 beta 5/a/li lia href=http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-avalon/release/phoenix/latest/;Avalon Phoenix 4.0 alpha 1/a/li lia href=http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-lucene/release/v1.2-rc1/;Lucene 1.2 Release Candidate 1/a/li Index: xdocs/site/news.xml === RCS file: /home/cvspublic/jakarta-site2/xdocs/site/news.xml,v retrieving revision 1.86 diff -u -w -r1.86 news.xml --- xdocs/site/news.xml 2001/10/07 18:51:51 1.86 +++ xdocs/site/news.xml 2001/10/12 12:35:26 @@ -11,6 +11,12 @@ section name=News amp; Status +h311 October 2001 - Ant 1.4.1 Released/h3 +pThis is a bugfix release for Ant 1.4 which corrects a number of small issues. +Download it +a href=http://www.apache.org/dist/jakarta/jakarta-ant/release/v1.4.1/;here/a./p +hr size=1 noshade=/ + h37 October 2001 - Tomcat 4.0.1 Beta 1 Released/h3 pThis is a release candidate for Tomcat 4.0.1, which is a maintenance release of Tomcat 4.0. Download it - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Viewcvs MIA
While we are on the topic of ViewCVS, there seems to be a slight config issue when you do a select for diffs. For example, look at this page http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-ant/build.xml?r1=1.173 The coloured diffs link and text appear to be truncated . The text is missing the closing bracket (I can live with that), while the link is missing the diff_format=h parameter (which I really would like). Anyone know how to fix that? Thanks Conor - Original Message - From: Jon Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:57 PM Subject: Re: Viewcvs MIA on 8/15/01 10:26 PM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject saids it all - else checkout http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/ We know. Fixed now. -jon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Viewcvs MIA
Missing in Action - Original Message - From: Pier P. Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 9:32 PM Subject: Re: Viewcvs MIA Peter Donald at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Subject saids it all - else checkout http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/ Errr... What's MIA? :) Pier - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] $un, M$ and Java
What is this, some sort of advocacy forum? I can read this sort of crap on slashdot if I want. IMHO, All this stuff is outside the charter of this list. Even a flamefest about jars in CVS, or project directory layouts or something on-topic, would be better :-) Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] $un, M$ and Java
From: Jon Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] That is why you can filter based on the subject line if you don't want to see it. I have been very careful to put [OT] in each of my off topic posts here. Oh, I see. Thanks. I didn't see about the [OT] convention described on http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html. Would you like a patch for that page? :-) Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Loggers, loggers, all over the place
FACT: Jog4J supports JDK 1.1.x and higher, while JogKit only supports JDK 1.2+, and JDK 1.4 logging is only _officialy_ available in JDK 1.4. Not terribly interested in Loggers, but I think I might need a JogKit. Actually I've got a bit of a mainframe, will Jog4J RUN :-) I think you may have typed Log too many times ! Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installing Tomcat on HP-UX 10.20
- Original Message - From: mysql fan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 12:24 AM Subject: Installing Tomcat on HP-UX 10.20 Hi! I've got installed an Apache Web Server on HPUX 10.20, and I would like to install Tomcat-Jakarta on it. Does anyone know the steps to be followed? Step 0 - Read http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html Step 1 - Send this message to the tomcat-user mailing list The folks there will be better placed to help you. Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Lucene acceptance in Jakarta
From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Do we have an initial list of committers? Unless it has a critical mass (read: three active developers), I would prefer commons-sandbox over a full fledged project. Why? It seems that commons-sandbox is becoming a mini sourceforge. I thought commons was about small independent reusable components. I don't know if Lucene fits that bill, although it sounds bigger that that. IMHO, even Cactus doesn't really belong there - it should probably be a top-level project. Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [GUMP] Build Failure - Turbine
3) Developers can't/don't test other projects. This is particularly relevant to ant, but also to some of the XML and (soon) commons modules. A number of build failures have been due to changes in ant. Ant should continue to be free to change things as needed to make ant better, and that will continue to break projects that rely on specific ant features/bugs. Unless the developers are going to rebuild all the dependant projects everytime they make a change, then this will keep happening. Interesting topic : like any other released package/project/tool with users, does Ant ensure that it is backwards compatible with itself, at least on major version boundaries? (I think it should be...) I think the Ant team take backward compatability very seriously. Nevertheless, sometimes a change is introduced, which, although unintended, does cause compatability issues. We track Gump closely to catch these unintended problems and try to resolve them as quickly as practical. Sometimes we make a change which will flush out problems in build files. Is that a backward compatability issue? The recent copying of non-existent files is an example. A number of builds broke because Ant tightened up one of its checks. What level of backward compatibility are we looking for. Should we preserve bugs so that nobody ever has to change a build file. I'd be interested in viewpoints there. Sometimes, even deprecating things in Ant causes complaints :-) As Gump is using CVS snapshots we should expect Gump to fail - this is its benefit. We should be happy when it fails :-) Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Vacation - Sam Ruby
From: Scott Sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 2:40 AM Subject: Re: Vacation - Sam Ruby If that is the case, there is nothing we can do until Sam gets back, as I know that Gump does a cvs update prior to the build process every time. Scott Sanders Is Sam the only one with access to the Gump checkout directory. Perhaps Sam checked out a particular version or date which is now sticky? Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Proposed dirlayout document
Ceki, +1 I agree. Too much optionality in a standard means there is nothing standard about it. I raised some issues about the original layout. These were just raising what I thought was the common Jakarta approach to some of these things. So, lets have a single approach with little optionality. It should be non-binding with a goal to move current projects to this standard. I don't think Ant should dictate the structure. I'm confident it will be able to support anything reasonable. Bring it on ... Conor - Original Message - From: Ceki Gülcü [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 9:13 PM Subject: Proposed dirlayout document Hi everyone, Having recently looked at http://jakarta.apache.org/site/dirlayout.html, my impression was that it allowed too many alternatives on a large number of points rendering the document somewhat confusing (useless?). I am against making the dirlayout document an exhaustive list of all possible layout structures. A guideline document should be a bit more assertive. With your permission I would like to eliminate some of the alternatives. This is surely going upset some people. I am asking for the permission to make some potentially controversial changes. Let me repeat that I do not consider myself as an expert in ANT or to know the optimal directory structures. As such, you are strongly encouraged to make suggestions. In order to avoid endless discussion, I am willing to cede my role if anyone volunteers to take up the responsibility for the document. Best regards, Ceki -- Ceki Gülcü - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New Subprojects
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Geir Magnusson Jr. It also functions simply as a place to work - what goes on in the 'sandbox' doesn't have to be an Official Component (tm). Sure enough, I guess. Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Directory layout feedback
Jon, From: Jon Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] I disagree. Documentation == website. All of the documentation for a product should be available on the website. The reason is simple...we are creating open source. Documentation is lacking in general as well as people to maintain it. So, whatever we have, we should make it readily accessible. I think I would see that as website = Documentation. There is stuff that I want on the web (Call for Ant 2 requirements news, for example) that I don't think is appropriate in the documentaion that ships with the build. Additionally, in Ant, we don't have the generated API docs in CVS (or the web site), which we do have in the distributions. Perhaps your suggestion of docs/site is the way to go. I'll think about that for Ant. build directory Many of the Jakarta projects put the build files in the project's root directory and use the build directory for build results, such as build classes which will be jarred up into the distribution Right and we are saying it should be "dist/classes" for that directory. But classes are not part of the "dist" image, if you know what I mean. If you look at this message, http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=ant-devm=98018389428408w=2, you will see that some others also view dist as an image of the binary distribution and build as a build area. The idea is to be able to use this dist in-situ as you are developing (by setting ANT_HOME, in the case of Ant). Personally, I can live with dist not being a distribution image but I was just reflecting what I thought was the current common practice. If it is not the common view, then I would certainly try to move Ant into line. build/lib == If this is a non-binding recommendation, I don't see why it supports two locations to put the binary jars. It should either be lib or build/lib, IMHO. The reason is to allow easy *.jar separation of files needed for building and files need for running. For example, I do not need ant.jar to run Velocity. Ok, that is clear now. I think this page should make that distinction clear (yes, I will change the XML :-)) Personally, I like bin/classes. :-) Compromise is a bitch eh? :-) Indeed. Other == I'll make some changes to the XML tonight to cover the structure of the generated distribution (wherever it may end up living) :-) Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PMC meeting agenda
From: "Peter Donald" [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 09:50 10/3/01 -0500, Jason van Zyl wrote: Finally, we need a preferred day. Board meetings are the third Wednesday of every month. I'd like to pick a schedule that allows status to be fed into the board in a convenient manner. I'd also suggest avoiding Fridays as those times are actually Saturday morning in Austrailia. Wed/Thu/Fri 19.00 - 20.00 GMT works for me. Ouch - 5am ;) I could do that I guess - sucks being the only Aussie ;) Just keep coding until the meeting starts... :-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] The Commons
From: "Ted Husted" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:57 PM Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] The Commons +1 to all your changes - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] The Commons
From: "Geir Magnusson Jr." [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I support the notion of standardization, but some of the Sun conventions
are just awful, particularly the bit about ending the method declaration
with a '{'
+1, but I fear it is too widely used in the Java world now :-(
Getting rid of the tabs is a start, though.
Conor
-
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Re: [PROPOSAL] The Commons
Ted, Let me give my counter point and then I will say no more. IMHO, for a list to be useful it needs to have a certain critical mass of subscribers. When there aren't enough people to get a discussion going, people stop posting. If the messages are few and far between, the list tends to atrophy altogether. You need community and you need cross-fertilization of ideas from that community. Maybe it is like the gene pool - if there aren't enough people participating, it doesn't work. If there was one list for the commons, more people will be exposed to each component of the commons. It will make the components more well known. People may not need a component now but they may remember later a discussion about some capability. I feel that one of the keys to the success of the commons will be how well its components are known, because only then will they be reused. Conor - Original Message - From: "Ted Husted" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 11:57 PM Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] The Commons Conor MacNeill wrote: Ted, Sounds good to me. I think it would be better to start with one mailing list so ensure there is enough "mass" in discussions. I feel strongly that there should be a combined user/dev list for each package, and I personally stand by the statement in the FAQ. -- Why is there a separate mailing list for each package? It's possible that many users or developers may be interested in a single package or two. We feel that if we do not keep the list traffic separate, it may be much harder for people to focus on the packages they care about. Since this is a volunteer effort, we must be very sensitive to the time constraints and attention spans of our developers and users. People who have a wider interest can just subscribe to additional lists. If this doesn't work out, it would be a simple matter to merge the subscription lists later. -- I believe that if "the unit of reuse is the unit of release", then it should also be the unit of subscription. -Ted. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Action regarding umbrella PMCs
From: "Roy T. Fielding" [EMAIL PROTECTED] That is, the PMC is supposed to be elected by the committers on the project, or include all of the committers on the project, because that's pretty much the only way to ensure that what we do remains a true collaboration and doesn't degrade into some sort of consortium or a mirror of our real jobs. This statement would seem to be in conflict with the PMC bylaws. "New members may be elected to the PMC. In order to be elected, a person must have served as a Committer and be nominated by a PMC Member. Once nominated, all of the PMC will vote and those receiving a 3/4 positive vote will become a member." Is the ASF board overriding the PMC bylaws just in this instance or does this principle hold for all PMC appointments? If it is the latter, then do the bylaws need to be amended to that effect? Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Action regarding umbrella PMCs
From: "Sam Ruby" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Roy is not overriding the PMC bylaws, he is simply describing the original intent of the board. That being said, I agree with Roy. Oh, I agree too. I am just wondering how all this fits together. For example the recent vote by PMC members on PMC nominees. Is that superceded by this statement? What is the plan from here? Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] The Commons
Ted, Sounds good to me. I think it would be better to start with one mailing list so ensure there is enough "mass" in discussions. Also, I am a bit dubious about the name "commons" (Don't know if there has been much discussion about that). The concept of a Commons is often used as an example of things that get abused because there is no ownership. If the name is up for discussion, can I suggest the name "substrate"? Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
