Re: [PROPOSAL] The future of Jakarta

2007-05-20 Thread J Aaron Farr

Danny Angus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Ok, I've followed the commons TLP vote thread with some interest
 because it seems to impact directly on the end-game for Jakarta

This thread has been more quiet than I expected.  A couple of quick

Henri and Henning seem to have the same ideas about Jakarta becoming a
portal or federation and I'm +1 for that. I think that's a great
idea and it's low maintenance.  Really, what more would you need than
the general@ list?

As for dormant code, leave it where it is.  If we still have a few
committers working on it and making releases occasionally, then we'd
still need a functional PMC.  Otherwise, if we get enough noise about
a subproject, it can be revived (perhaps with help from the

And the site should be as self-maintaining as possible, picking up
news and releases from all other java projects at apache.  I would
think there is no more qualified group of people to put together such
as site than we have in Jakarta/Apache.

  J Aaron Farr[US] +1 724-964-4515 
馮傑仁 [HK] +852 8123-7905  

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Re: [VOTE] Release Regexp 1.5

2007-03-19 Thread J Aaron Farr
Jesse Kuhnert [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 You have to be kidding me..

 The only problem I see is that people are all caught up in policies /
 processes but I've yet to hear what the actual root problem is. I'm
 sure it's intended to somehow prevent something nasty that has
 happened in the past but these policies don't have any logic that I'm
 able to follow. Why does the ASF need to dictate how we vote on

 Maybe I'm just having a bad morning, but for some reason this really
 rubs me the wrong way and feels extremely inefficient.

The problem is that Vote-Then-Release leaves opportunities for the
small details to get missed and you end up with a sloppy release.
Examples include non-signed distributables, incomplete legal notices,
missing or incorrect hashes.  The worst is someone slipping in some
malicious code in between the time the vote is cast and the release is

When a PMC votes on a release they should be approving the exact bits
that hit the mirrors.  That vote binds the ASF to be _legally_
responsible.  The only way to have sufficient and appropriate
oversight is to give the PMC a chance to check that these final steps
of a release have been properly handled.  Otherwise the PMC risks
releasing a half baked product.

It is completely appropriate for the ASF to set guidelines on release

  jaaron  (who is not on the Jakarta PMC)

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Re: [VOTE] Release Regexp 1.5

2007-03-19 Thread J Aaron Farr
Nathan Bubna [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 that said, i would love to see some more automation of
 signature/hash/LICENSE/NOTICE/zip-tar-consistency checking.  i believe
 Henk Penning does have some automated signature checking set up, but
 that's all i know of, and it only happens after the release is out.

 anyone frustrated with the process is quite welcome to step up and
 hack up something to ease the frustration. :)

ARAT helps:

And again you can code up a lot of this in Ant or use some of Maven's plugins.


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Re: Re: State of Slide project

2006-07-29 Thread J Aaron Farr

On 7/29/06, Martin van den Bemt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Henning Schmiedehausen wrote:

 We should make the effort to distinguish between stable projects/code
 and dormant/dead code.

Totally agree.. Though we have to figure out if slide is dormant or mature.
I cannot judge if it is one or the other. Based on the stuff I read on it (eg 
jackrabbit-dev), it
seems more like dormant then mature though.

The issue of dormant and stable code is something we need to
figure out throughout Apache.  For example, I believe Excalibur counts
as stable (if not dormant).  Similar comments have been made about
several other projects.

Here are some of the issues about dormant/stable code:

We want to avoid the SourceForge syndrome of a lot of inactive
projects.  I don't like the idea that a new user browsing Apache
websites can't tell which ones are active and which ones are not.

We need a pathway both into dormancy and out of dormancy.  If a new
group of developers want to pick up old code and run with it, what's
the policy?  Fork it?  Put it through the incubator?

While we have, that's a little harsh for some of
these projects.  There still are users and there may be (as henning
pointed out) occasional releases.  At the same time, do these projects
need the overhead of a full PMC and quarterly reporting to the board?

My point is, I think we need to come up with a solution that can scale
across Apache so that we can send a consistent message to our users.


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Re: Managing communities and emails (was Re: [PROPOSAL] Jakarta Language Components)

2006-03-14 Thread J Aaron Farr
On 3/14/06, Thomas Dudziak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Perhaps a forum frontend would be even better for users, at least for

You mean like Nabble?  (

I like Simon's proposal.  I know I need something that better allows
me to manage the number of lists I'm on and a way to better filter
converstations I'm interested in.

Henri recently blogged something similar about a mailing list client:


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Re: future for maven generated websites?

2005-03-28 Thread J Aaron Farr
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:01:07 +0100, robert burrell donkin

 given that infrastructures talking about switching off accounts on
 minotaur in a matter of months and there's work that's going to be
 needed to be done, it's probably worth trying to pull some stuff
 together sooner rather than later. this seems like an apache-wide
 infrastructure issue for maven so there are a number of lists that might
 be appropriate for this discussion (maven-dev, infrastructure, general
 at jakarta). i'd be inclined to leave the thread here (might be easier
 to find bodies who aren't working on maven right now). opinions?

If I remember correctly, there was some talk on infrastructure about
creating a whole publishing system with a staging server and a way to
generate the sites via maven or ant or whatever.  I would suggest
moving this discussion over to the infra list.


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Re: Javadoc management

2005-03-16 Thread J Aaron Farr
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 00:49:08 -0500 (EST), Henri Yandell
 Interested in finding out if anyone else thinks this would be a good idea.
 Rather than have each subproject managing their release javadocs
 separately, I think it would be good if we treated the javadoc more like
 the releases. Located in a central location, perhaps mirrored, all
 versions available and perhaps with additional tools like ashkelon or
 multidoc to bring them together.

I guess I'm hoping for something like:$group/$artifact/$version/

with features like
   * download the javadocs
   * search javadocs
   * have javadocs linked to source reference  (so maybe have an 'api'
and a 'src' directory)
   * have javadocs linked to each other
   * include test and taglib javadocs

Plus it's got to be pretty simple to set this up or for projects to
contribute to it.

I like the idea of including javadocs as part of the release process
and I like the idea of encouraging projects to host the lastest
javadocs on their own site.

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RE: License issue

2004-12-28 Thread J Aaron Farr
 -Original Message-
 From: Matthias Wessendorf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


 I have a question containing different licenses.
 As far as I understand, we are not allowed to ship
 JARs (for dependency) that are under LGPL.

 What would be with BSD License?

BSD dependencies are fine.  Simply make sure you are following the license
and include any necessary notices or copyright messages in your NOTICE


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Re: Lessons Learned

2004-12-12 Thread J Aaron Farr
robert burrell donkin wrote:
beware too many organizational layers. flat is best. having a single 
sub-project with many releasables artifacts sharing the same community 
space (mailing lists, committer lists, voting eligability and so on) has 
proved more successful (see jakarta commons) than a complex web of 
sub-sub-sub-projects. factor along community lines: groups working on 
different releasables being unhappy about sharing the same community 
space is a good sign that they are two separate projects. (most modern 
email clients have good filtering support so provided conventions are 
adopted, several different code bases can be easily support on a single 
mailing list. for those unwilling or unable to set up filters, using a 
news reader and works well.)
Don't be afraid of forks or duplication.  If someone wants to try 
something out on their own, let them.  But that doesn't mean you have to 
host it in the original project.  There's plenty of space for similar 
and even competing software projects.  A single project does not have to 
be everything to everyone.

Some other lessons I learned in working with Apache Avalon:
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RE: error while starting tomcat

2004-10-12 Thread J Aaron Farr
 -Original Message-
 From: project member [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 hi all,
 anyone has a solution for this exception while i start tomcat :

 Apache Tomcat/4.0.4 Address already in use: JVM_Bind

It means you already have something running on port 8080 which tomcat
uses.  You need to either close whatever is running on this port or change
the port tomcat is running on.  To change the port you'll need to edit
tomcat's configuration file (conf/server.xml).  Some virus scan software
use 8080 (I think MacAfee's ePolicy Orchestrator does).

However, you really should direct such questions to Tomcat mailing list:

Better yet, you could use a search engine to find the answers to these
sorts of questions:

There are also mailing list archives you can search for answers:

Most of the time you will be able to find the answer yourself via one of
these resources.


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[ANN] New Avalon Site

2004-07-06 Thread J Aaron Farr
Apache Avalon has launched a new version of our website:
The site focuses the new single Avalon platform and reflects much of the 
recent changes in Avalon including the spinning off of the new Apache 
Excalibur project.  As such, much old documentation has been updated, 
moved, or removed.  We're still working on some sections but in the 
spirit of release early, release often we're live starting now.

I'm certain there will be a number of broken links and missing docs due 
to the changes and we want to make sure we get redirects in place.  For 
example, the Excalibur documentation has been removed and instead there 
is a link to the new Excalibur project.  Likewise the Phoenix 
documentation has been removed with a pointer to the Loom project at 

If you have any suggestions, comments, or concerns about the site, 
please send an email over to the Avalon developers list and we'll gladly 
figure something out.

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Re: Why use maillists??

2004-04-16 Thread J Aaron Farr
Quoting Shane Curcuru [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 A couple of other reasons to supplement Danny's reply:

And one or two of my own:

 * Mailing lists are a push technology.  Forums are more pull.  That means I
can get the mailing list updates sent to me without having to do anything. 
Forums require me to regularly check the website and see what's new.

 * Mailing lists let me browse everything quickly.  Each email (or at least the
subject title) passes by my eyes.  I don't have to dig around in a web site and
perhaps miss something because I didn't click on one last link.

 * Mailing list allow time-shifting of the discussion.  This means I can reply
to an email sent a few days ago.  Forums also allow this, but things like IRC
channels do not.

That's not that mailing lists are perfect.  The archives are often hard to
search through and it's easy for good bits of information to get lost.  It would
be nice to be able to incorporate more of the information in on the mailing list
into the website documentation (which a forum allows).  Right now a reasonable
solution is to make sure you copy and paste good mailing list replies into the
community wiki.

Things like Gmane which give you newsgroup access to mailing lists are *very*
nice and solve some of the drawbacks to mailing lists.

Finally, Jakarta did have forums at one time but I don't think they were heavily


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Re: Jakarta Questions

2003-11-26 Thread J Aaron Farr
Quoting Rice, Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 I'm doing a school project on Jakarta and it's Open Source process.  I've
 read everything that I could find online and still had a few questions:


 2. What is used to determine when a release is ready?  When outstanding bugs
 in Bugzilla are resolved?  Or is there another driver?

Avalon, which used to be in Jakarta, has a list of links and documents related
to the process of release management:

As Henri said, the decision to release is made by the project community itself.
 Each community may have slightly different standards.  The most common response
will probably be something along the lines of 'it feels right'.


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Re: [Proposal] HiveMind Service Framework

2003-11-12 Thread J Aaron Farr

   I think someone wanted this to get forwarded to the Avalon 'general' mailing
list, but since that doesn't exist, I thought I'd send it to our dev list. 

For the Avaloners:

There's been a bit of discussion lately on [EMAIL PROTECTED] about what to do with
Hivemind seeing that it has started to outgrow its current location in
commons-sandbox.  Some have suggested that it fits better over here in Avalon
(as a sub-project) than in Jakarta.  In some respects, I agree.  I think its a
little light to be its own top-level project ( and if you
look at the jakarta charters vs avalon charters, Hivemind falls more on the
Avalon side of things.  Not sure what Howards thoughts are on that.

--- Danny Angus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Howard wrote:
  3) Chuck it over to Avalon
  I've looked to see how we could graft HiveMind into Avalon and vice-versa,
  but they are really quite different beasts.  The type-1  vs. type-2/type-3
  split is intrinsic and difficult to reconcile.  HiveMind's concept of a
  module doesn't map so easily into the  Avalon space, and HiveMind's
  free-for-all approach doesn't jive with Avalon's dogmatic security model
  (including its explicit application construction descriptor).
 I didn't mean to suggest that you should try to move avalon architecture
 towards hivemind or vice versa,
 but I did wonder if there would be support @avalon for an alternative
 approach as an avalon sub-project.
 The danger of having an Avalon alternative @jakarta is that it will be seen
 by people as somehow being Jakarta's favoured solution, rather than as one
 of two (or more) alternatives promoted by Avalon.
 If you see what I mean.
 Of course you went through this whole debate when we discussed whether we
 needed Tapestry as an alternative to Struts, as equal members of Jakarta
 neither approach can be seen to be in any way an endorsed or
 favourite. The same (IMO) would not be true for service frameworks if
 Hivemind was a Jakarta project not an Avalon one. Hivemind would be seen by
 some to be Jakarta's favoured solution.
 FWIW I'm certainly not going to oppose this, Hivemind seems to be a well
 thought out proposal, but I don't want Jakarta to be accused of trying to
 replace Avalon, and I guess that will mean involving Avalon folks in the
 Imagine the reaction there would be if I proposed a make utility as a
 Jakarta sub-project, and perhaps you'll get the thrust of my concern.

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Re: Call on Stein to resign over Gernimo

2003-11-11 Thread J Aaron Farr
On Wed, 2003-11-12 at 00:20, mohammad nabil wrote:
 we are talking about software here. It's no life and death matter. No one 
 is going to lose their life over this. It's not like a U.S. gov. official 
 leaking the name of a CIA operative to the public.
 what that mean  :s


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RE: so many jars

2003-03-14 Thread J Aaron Farr
On Fri, 2003-03-14 at 11:14, Henri Yandell wrote:
 at compile-time maybe :)
 But you still end up with jar duplication, you just get to avoid having to
 think about it too much when compiling.

I agree that maven has an excellent jar dependency solution for
compile-time, but I don't think there exists any (standard) solution for
run-time dependencies in java.  Using a system level $CLASSPATH variable
becomes painful (as was mentioned).  The general solution seems to be a
hierarchal set of /lib directories.  

To have a true run-time jar dependency solution you would need a
standard installation and launch mechanism.  I suppose something based
on JNLP (WebStart) plus some sort of ports or emerge system could do
this, but I don't think it exists yet.  Interesting idea though. 


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Prof Eben Moglen on L/GPL and jars

2003-02-20 Thread J Aaron Farr
With all the discussion about licensing with LGPL stuff, I thought this might
be interesting to everyone.  Comes from the new Slashdot interview with Eben


 2) Clarifying the GPL
by sterno

One issue that I know has come up for me is how the GPL applies in situations
where I'm using GPL software but I'm not actually modifying it. For example, I
write a Java application, and it is reliant on a JAR that is GPL'd. Do I then
need to GPL my software? I haven't changed the JAR in anyway, I'm just
redistributing it with my software. The end user could just as easily download
the JAR themselves, it's just a convenience for me to offer it in my package.


The language or programming paradigm in use doesn't determine the rules of
compliance, nor does whether the GPL'd code has been modified. The situation is
no different than the one where your code depends on static or dynamic linking
of a GPL'd library, say GNU readline. Your code, in order to operate, must be
combined with the GPL'd code, forming a new combined work, which under GPL
section 2(b) must be distributed under the terms of the GPL and only the GPL.
If the author of the other code had chosen to release his JAR under the Lesser
GPL, your contribution to the combined work could be released under any license
of your choosing, but by releasing under GPL he or she chose to invoke the
principle of share and share alike. 



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