RE: host key changed?

2006-05-18 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 I tried to SSH to cvs.apache.org, but my system said there was a new 
 host key.

Why are you trying to access cvs.apache.org?  

 I know there were some recent issues with minotaur

Shell accounts are on people.apache.org, not cvs.apache.org.

--- Noel

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RE: host key changed?

2006-05-18 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 I understand correctly, yes the host key has changed: SVN is now
 hosted on eris.apache.org, not minotaur.apache.org.  (And you should
 use the svn.apache.org rather than cvs.apache.org if possible).

No.

  1) A host key warning should be taken seriously.  Are you sure
 that you're talking to the right host?  In this case, NO.

  2) No, he does not want svn.apache.org.  We don't give out shell
 accounts on the source control server.  He wants people.apache.org,
 which no longer shares the same physical host with source control.

--- Noel

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RE: host key changed?

2006-05-18 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 Good thing I put the if I understand correctly disclaimer
 on my message ;)

:-D

 my apologies to the OP.

No worries.  I tend to look at this as a security issue.  We should not take
a changing host key lightly.

--- Noel


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RE: anyone else affected by wiki spam bots?

2006-04-12 Thread Noel J. Bergman
At the moment, this is the only report I've seen.  Howard also mentioned it
to infrastructure.

So these wiki bots know how to create accounts and sign into them for
spamming?

--- Noel


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RE: [VOTE] Jakarta Sandbox

2006-04-11 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Martin,

  Jakarta is
  Components
  Sandbox
  Things move from sandbox to components.

 That would be fine if there was a well-defined scope for the sandbox.

Should be the same as the scope for Jakarta.  Define that, and you may have
your answer.

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RE: [VOTE] Jakarta Sandbox

2006-04-09 Thread Noel J. Bergman
   * Create development mailing list ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

sandbox-dev@ ?

Otherwise, fine.

--- Noel

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RE: [VOTE] Jakarta Sandbox

2006-04-09 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 1. There should not be an escape from the pain of the incubator.
All new projects must go through the incubator and endure.

ACO's gratuitously snarky comments aside, projects coming into the ASF go
through the Incubator.  New things started entirely within the ASF do not,
currently.

--- Noel


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RE: [VOTE] Jakarta Sandbox

2006-04-09 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:

 Noel J. Bergman wrote:
  projects coming into the ASF go through the Incubator.  New things
  started entirely within the ASF do not, currently.
 Then there is no NEED for a sandbox.

As you know, the sandbox predates the Incubator, and AIUI, the Sandbox
exists so as to allow experiments without polluting the respository in such
manner that would confuse the public and ourselves about what is real and
what is play.  There may be other ways in to achieve that goal.

--- Noel


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RE: [VOTE] Remove SVN restrictions

2006-03-27 Thread Noel J. Bergman
+1

--- Noel

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RE: Invitation

2006-03-19 Thread Noel J. Bergman
robert burrell donkin wrote:

 looks like we're going to need to think about turning on address
 checking sooner or later this year. probably need to think about
 ways to allow committers to post from their apache addresses.

Two separate issues, unless the e-mail was sent with his @apache.org
address.  If *his* domain uses SPF, I believe that we would already honor
it.  Our mail handling is transitioning, and we can pursue that option.

--- Noel


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RE: [PROPOSAL] Cleanup pmc members

2006-03-17 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Sandy,

I meant ALL of us.  The whole PMC.  Not a selected group, which eliminates
the problem of having to come up with a selection criteria.

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RE: [PROPOSAL] Cleanup pmc members

2006-03-16 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 My proposal is that we create a file in SVN in which PMC members can list
 themselves as being active. After 1 month, failure to appear in that list
 will result in removal from the PMC.

Why not just send out e-mail to the PMC members asking them if they want to
remain active?

We have done this with another PMC, and had one person repeatedly ask to
stay listed as active.  I don't think that I've seen a post from him other
than that in some years now, but as long as he's happy reading and has
nothing to say, I have no problem with keeping him.  There is no quorum to
be met for the PMC.

--- Noel


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RE: [PROPOSAL] Cleanup pmc members

2006-03-16 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 there are no written down rules that I know of for what a PMC
 member should do (that'd be unnecessary bureacracy).

The written rules for the ASF are
http://www.apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html.PMCs would make their lives
a whole lot simpler if they would facilitate human participation and focus a
lot less on rigid structures (aka, rules).

If you do not need a rule, do not have it.  If you need a rule, I prefer
SHOULD rather than MUST unless coding automated protocols.  Guidelines are
better than requirements.

Ok, that's enough from speakers corner.  Good night. :-)

--- Noel


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RE: Other Jakarta Components

2006-03-13 Thread Noel J. Bergman
In terms of finding homes, I wonder if we should have a root directory under
which we have inactive codebases.  One problem would be that no PMC would be
responsible.  Or we could create a sort of reverse incubator: a curatorship,
where no active development takes place, but where oversight exists.  If a
community wakes up around the codebase again, the curators can help put the
codebase back into a community.

This would be an ASF-wide thing.

--- Noel


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RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] ApacheCon EU 2006

2006-02-25 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Henning Schmiedehausen wrote:

 You are surely aware of the fact that this is right on top of the round
 of 16 and quarter-final games of The World Cup, aren't you?

 IMHO you probably should plan to get T.V. sets in the common areas

LOL Way ahead of you.  The conference producer made similar comments, as did
I.  But not everyone shares out passion for The Beautiful Game.

--- Noel


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RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] ApacheCon EU 2006

2006-02-25 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Martin van den Bemt wrote:

 +1 :) The Dutch will get to the finals anyway and I don't
 want to miss out on that :)

LOL  Well, the Orange are on my list of teams whom I want to see do well,
along with the Brits and (of course) USA.

--- Noel


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RE: Jakarta stats

2006-01-12 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Danny Angus wrote:

 I'm one of the 1) Inactive PMC members

Define inactive.  Inactive as a committer?  Inactive as a PMC member
providing oversight to Jakarta projects?  I'm in the former category, as are
many, but I still actively monitor several project lists, even if I only
post when I have something specific to contribute.

--- Noel


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RE: comments on a project

2006-01-10 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 At first I tried to use JSP without any framework or taglib. In
 contrast to templates JSP doesn't help much on seperating logic
 and html code

Please see the JSP 2.0 Specification for Tag Files.  Tags are your friends,
and Tag Files make them easy to write.

 And I could not get used to the Model View Controller concept.

Very simple concept.  Documentation (and examples) often over complicates
it.

--- Noel


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RE: ApacheCon (AC2k5US)

2005-09-25 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 I've started a wiki page to plan any Jakarta/Apache-Java BoFs etc at 
 ApacheCon this December

 http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/AC2k5US

Shouldn't this be on http://wiki.apache.org/apachecon/ ?

--- Noel

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RE: [Request for Comment] Http Components proposal

2005-09-25 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 The plan is to factor the multipart content handling out
 of HttpClient. There's already a project in Commons
 Sandbox led by Mark R. Diggory [for] that end.  Unfortunately
 the project has been dormant for quite some time

See also: http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/james/mime4j

--- Noel

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RE: [RESULT] Naming for new Jakarta subproject

2005-08-21 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Henri,

We should run the name by the PRC, but it should be fine.

--- Noel

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RE: [VOTE] Naming for new Jakarta subproject

2005-08-16 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 [+1]Apache Silk

Akin to Danny's comment, whatever the group likes is fine, but the above is
my preference.

--- Noel


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RE: Jakarta - Cleaning house

2005-08-09 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 Create a 'Graveyard' for dead projects

Absolutely not.  There is no such thing.  I might agree to an Apache
museum, which has marginally more acceptable semantics.

--- Noel


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RE: WebXxxx Naming Was: Web Components/Common project

2005-08-09 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 Also Web parts appears to be a Microsoft term

I have a shirt around here someone regarding Parts for Java, which was a
product from ParcPlace.

Apache WebParts would be OK with me, but I care more about the content of
the project than the name.

--- Noel


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RE: Web Components/Common project

2005-08-09 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 Has there been any discussion with the Incubator PMC whether this
 contribution needs to come through them?  Or does this somehow not
 fit into their purview?

All external codebases brought into the ASF need to come through the
Incubator.  Sometimes, as Henri noted, that only requires the IP clearance
to be filed.  We put some guidelines into that document for when it might be
appropriate.

--- Noel


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RE: WebXxxx Naming Was: Web Components/Common project

2005-08-09 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 How about Apache Spider Web?

No, but you just gave me an idea:

  Apache Silk

Silk is what webs are made of.

--- Noel


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RE: [PROPOSAL] subproject that's a home for bricks reusablein java web applications

2005-06-22 Thread Noel J. Bergman
  Or Jakarta Web Parts For Java, or JWP4J, which has the benefit of
  being what I am now (JWP) with 4J appended.  I for one like it!

 that sounds good to me too.
 anyone else have an opinion?

I believe that the PRC wants an Apache branding, but check.

Sorry for short reply, but my computer is literally in the process of dying
for the second time in a month (after repair), and I'm quickly posting this
before shutting down.  I'll be offline for at least a few days.

--- Noel


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RE: mail server hacked?

2005-05-17 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Just spam that made it past spamassassin.  We installed a new rule set last
night to address it.

--- Noel


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RE: mail server hacked?

2005-05-17 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Steve Cohen wrote:

 Noel J. Bergman wrote:
  Just spam that made it past spamassassin.  We installed a new
  rule set last night to address it.
  Might that rule have possibly been overly strict?

Not unless your e-mail has subjects written in German.  :-)

More likely, e-mail just can't get through.  There is 0% idle CPU and I'm
sure that connections are being refused and need to be retried over and
over.

--- Noel


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RE: Jakarta SVN

2005-04-10 Thread Noel J. Bergman
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/jakarta/commons/proper/httpclient/trunk/

And the host name (svn.apache.org) is correct, and the host is working fine.

--- Noel


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RE: future for maven generated websites?

2005-03-27 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 does anyone have a plan to cope with rebuilding maven based
 websites when shell access is switched off to the machine
 serving the website?

Yes.  And in the meantime, just update minotaur, and the site will be
synched to the live server.  Which also means that we have a backup of the
live site if the web server were to crash.

--- Noel


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RE: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-21 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Costin Manolache wrote:

 I'm +1 on your email if you are going to send the same kind of email for
 every use of Tomcat and if we are going to send an email every time a
 company or individual claims he is making 'lead contributions' to an
 apache project. And I would feel much better if such rules would be
 written down ( so we can point people to it - and use them in all cases).

 I'm -1 if this is only about Jboss, it's just not fair.

We have a PRC for the purpose, in part, of ensuring a consistent message
across the ASF.

--- Noel


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RE: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-21 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Serge Knystautas wrote:

 Noel J. Bergman wrote:
 Remy Maucherat wrote:
it is obvious Apache has the notion of company contributions.
 Companies authorize individuals where their employment agreement might be
in
 conflict with a CLA, and companies can provide a Software Grant in the
case
 where the existing IP is owned by the company.  This applies equally to
IBM,
 Sun, BEA, Gluecode, DevTech, or JBoss.

 This is an accurate legal description but not really an issue to me.

I was addressing only that aspect of it.  The positioning aspect is much
more contentious.  I agree with your expression of discomfort at how
companies --- not just JBoss --- market their relationships, but that's
something I would be happy to defer to the PRC.

 I think one of the great things about the ASF is that it does allow
 commercial involvement in their projects.  I'd love us to figure out how
we ARE comfortable thanking JBoss, IBM, etc.. rather than only reacting
when we feel a line is crossed.

+1

--- Noel


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RE: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-21 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Remy Maucherat wrote:

 What if I, on the opposite, contend that if it had been any other
 company with any other ASF project, nobody would have bothered ?

 Can you prove me wrong ?

Multiple companies have, in fact, been contacted and dealt with over what
was perceived to be misleading PR and other things.  I don't want to discuss
which ones, so as not to revisit old wounds, but I was involved in at least
two other incidents that come to mind off-hand.  In all cases, I do feel
that such matters should be brought to the PRC.

You should convey to JBoss, as has been conveyed to other companies, that it
would be appreciated if their PR departments would work with our PRC before
releasing related PR.  That would get you, and most of the rest of us, out
of that path, and let you, and most of the rest of us, concentrate on
community development and code.

--- Noel


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RE: Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ?

2005-03-21 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Jim Jagielski wrote:
 Mladen Turk wrote:
  Anyhow, what are your feelings that we (Tomcat developers),
  propose to the ASF to be nominated as TLP?

I'd say that it is about time.

 I know that some of you will think (since it's coming from me)
 'Damn, JBoss is trying to control the Tomcat', but there
 is just Remy and myself, with dozen of other developers, each
 of them having a veto for anything that we try to commit as
 encrypted or evil :).

I am not aware of any complaints regarding your technical contributions.
Only over your employer's attempts at self-portraiture.  If anything, I am
more likely to feel sorry for you and Remy getting caught in the crossfire.

--- Noel


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RE: Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ?

2005-03-21 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Mladen Turk wrote:

 Noel J. Bergman wrote:
  I am not aware of any complaints regarding your technical contributions.

 Cool, means so much to me.
 I also have no complaints on your technical skills :)

My observation, not opinion, was in response to your expressing concern that
there would be outside opposition based upon you and Remy working for JBoss.
As far as I'm aware, no one has ever complained about a contribution biasing
the product for JBoss.  And, as you had pointed out, there are two of you
and many others with veto rights.  In fact, although I have not looked to do
a body count, my belief is that Tomcat is more balanced than Beehive, Derby,
Lenya or XMLBeans, to name a few.

  If anything, I am more likely to feel sorry for you and Remy
  getting caught in the crossfire.

 Please don't sorry me, and don't insult my intelligence.

I'm mystified as to how you could derive the latter from my comment.

--- Noel


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RE: Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ?

2005-03-21 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Dims,

The new TLP would be expected to address the same issues, and to work with
the PRC and other parts of the ASF, but they'd be more immediately
associated with them, too.

--- Noel


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RE: Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ?

2005-03-21 Thread Noel J. Bergman
  Currently, Tomcat developers are having to take time away from
  their main task (coding) to answer management issues raised by
  Jakarta. This raises the question of whether Tomcat is big
  enough and mature enough to manage these issues itself, without
  the involvement of Jakarta.

 Great.  Now this thread has moved from JBoss-bashing to dissing
 the entire Tomcat community.

Where did you see that from what he said?  He correctly noted that moving to
TLP status has certain requirements, but no one has said that Tomcat does
not possess them.  Quite to the contrary from most notes I've read on this
thread.

--- Noel


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RE: Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ?

2005-03-21 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 Please, lets calm the things down.
 Henri will write an email to SD magazine, and the earth
 will still spin tomorrow.

Well, actually, if it would pause briefly on Wednesday, that'd be OK.  I
have to fly east, and would rather not chase the horizon for 3000 miles.

--- Noel


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RE: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-20 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Remy Maucherat wrote:
 I am definitely contributing to Tomcat as part of my employment at
 JBoss. I am not contributing on my own free time to Tomcat as an
 individual at the moment

If you look at the CLA, you'll see that all contributions are made by
individuals, irrespective of motivation or employment status.

 and (as far as I can remember, as it was a while ago ...) have
 submitted a company CLA reflecting that

A CCLA simply authorizes each employee to perform under the terms of their
CLA.

 it is obvious Apache has the notion of company contributions.

Companies authorize individuals where their employment agreement might be in
conflict with a CLA, and companies can provide a Software Grant in the case
where the existing IP is owned by the company.  This applies equally to IBM,
Sun, BEA, Gluecode, DevTech, or JBoss.

None of this is new.  It has been discussed at length, and is fairly well
established.  This is a legal distinction having nothing to do with the
promotional wording of the Jolt awards.

--- Noel


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RE: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-20 Thread Noel J. Bergman
  And, yet, all of the complaints about the article have been
  from people that aren't involved with Tomcat development ;-).

 Obvious quandry for me, we don't really have any concept of subcommunity,
 apart from the individual dev lists, it's supposed to be the Jakarta
 community at large

Remind me again ... why isn't Tomcat a TLP?

--- Noel


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RE: [site] killing vendors page

2005-02-21 Thread Noel J. Bergman
I'd suggest that we talk to the PRC about it.  There are some good things
about a vendors page.  Erik makes an interesting point about the Wiki, but
it would mean that we couldn't vet it for content to prevent grossly
misleading content.

--- Noel


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RE: Eyebrowse down?

2005-01-29 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Scott,

There appears to be a problem with mysql on nagoya.  I'll see what I can do
about freeing it up.

--- Noel


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RE: Eyebrowse down?

2005-01-29 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Noel J. Bergman wrote:

 There appears to be a problem with mysql on nagoya.

Some tables were marked as crashed in the eyebrowse database.  I have taken
mysql off-line and am running repairs.

--- Noel


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RE: Eyebrowse down?

2005-01-29 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
 Some tables were marked as crashed in the eyebrowse database.
 I have taken mysql off-line and am running repairs.

This will take a bit longer.  We ran out of space on the file system holding
the databases, and it is taking a while to purge the cache that caused the
problem so that we can repair the databases.

--- Noel


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RE: jakarta-site2 now live on xslt

2005-01-03 Thread Noel J. Bergman
sebb wrote:
 Looks like a *lot* of other projects use the Anakia jars and/or
 stylesheets from jakarta-site2 - not just jakarta-tomcat-site.

Including, FWIW, JAMES (ex-Jakarta project).  But we can clone what we need
until/if we replace it.

--- Noel


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RE: 3-column jakarta.apache.org?

2005-01-01 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 Acknowledgements (Definitely ASF now, no-one supports 'jakarta' as such
 afaik)

Turn over all of this to the PRC, and let them handle it on an ASF-wide
basis.

--- Noel


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RE: 3-column jakarta.apache.org?

2005-01-01 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 unfortunately, there's still a lot that's not and already quite a bit 
 of information has been lost when the old wiki was removed.

As noted by Henri, the old Wiki was moved, not removed.

--- Noel

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RE: 3-column jakarta.apache.org?

2005-01-01 Thread Noel J. Bergman
robert burrell donkin wrote:

 unfortunately, there's still a lot that's not and already quite a bit
 of information has been lost when the old wiki was removed.
 As noted by Henri, the old Wiki was moved, not removed.

 effectively is still lost as far as links are concerned

Well, if people would stop using machine names in URLs, we could at least
try to map them.  For the Wiki it would have been pretty easy.

--- Noel


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RE: 3-column jakarta.apache.org?

2005-01-01 Thread Noel J. Bergman
robert burrell donkin asked:

 Noel J. Bergman wrote:

 Acknowledgements (Definitely ASF now, no-one supports 'jakarta' as 
 such afaik)
 Turn over all of this to the PRC, and let them handle it on an ASF-wide
 basis.
 cool. what's the right to set about doing this?

Send e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

--- Noel

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RE: 3-column jakarta.apache.org?

2004-12-29 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 http://www.apache.org/~bayard/mock-jakarta-frontpage.html

We might consider changing some of the wording if you are going to refer to
projects growing up and leaving.  We could refer to Jakarta as a federation
of projects, some of which are under the oversight of the Jakarta PMC, and
some of which are TLPs in their own right.

--- Noel


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RE: Dormancy worries

2004-12-26 Thread Noel J. Bergman
I share your concerns.  The general question is what to do with such
projects, and I think we should be open to creative ideas.  There has been
some suggestion that they be cleaned up by migrating them to some other
domain to be mothballed.  The code, web site, and mailing list archives
would be preserved, and could be restored at such time in the future when a
community might arise.

 BCEL and BSF both seem to be in danger of having no actual Apache
community

I am a fan of BSF, and would like to see that thrive.  We are making some
use of it in JAMES, which I expect will expand; have proposed use of it in
the Directory server; and I would like to see other projects, e.g.,
Geronimo, avail themselves of BSF.

 ORO and Regexp also are low, but I'm confident that both have an Apache
 commiter actively monitoring the community.

The suggestion has been made to merge both into Jakarta Commons.  I believe
that both are still in fairly widespread use, despite J2SE 1.4 adding
regular expressions to the core library.

--- Noel


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RE: Migration to Ajax from Nagoya (fwd)

2004-12-26 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 Scarab is used by Turbine, DB Torque and a couple of other sub projects.

I'll look at doing the migration, but it would be nice if we had someone who
was willing to maintain scarab.

--- Noel


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RE: [vote] moving jakarta-site2 to subversion

2004-12-18 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 72 hours for this vote - classify this as a public release vote
 requires majority (at least 3 +1s and more +1s than -1s )

I'm personally +1, but if any Jakarta project presents a reason why creates
a problem for them at the moment, I would consider that binding until we can
resolve the issue.

--- Noel


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RE: Converting Jakarta site and site2 to SVN

2004-12-18 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 I think we shoul add it to a list of ones to archive somehow. Jsev,
 alexandria etc.

We could import them and move them to an archives/ subtree, kind of like a
branch, or just delete them.

--- Noel


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RE: Jakarta Support provider

2004-12-01 Thread Noel J. Bergman
I don't know how much vetting we do, but despite the fact that this is a
vendor page, I believe that a lot of people would complain about the phrase
[Covalent is] the only source of full commercial support for Apache 
Tomcat.

Now that the ASF has established the PRC, perhaps it is time we turned
control over such vendor pages to the PRC to make sure that a message
consistent with the ASF's neutrality is preserved.

--- Noel

-Original Message-
From: Mark Brewer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 19:48
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Jakarta Support provider


To whom it concerns,

Covalent Technologies would like to be added to Developer Support
section of this page on the Jakarta site:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/vendors.html

Below is the info you've requested.

Website: www.covalent.net http://www.covalent.net
Description: Covalent is the leader in products and services for Apache
 Tomcat, the world's leading Web server, and the only source of full
commercial support for Apache  Tomcat.   Covalent has assembled the
deepest talent pool of Apache experts in the industry. Through
Covalent's products and services, Apache/Tomcat users receive all the
flexibility and benefits of open source, with the support and
reliability of a commercial enterprise fully dedicated to those open
source technologies.
Location:  Worldwide
Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Let us know if there is anything further you require.

Thanks,

Mark Brewer
925.974.8800 x5


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RE: SVN server down?

2004-11-26 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Shinobu Kawai and others asked:

 Is the SVN server down?

Yes.  Currently doing some maintenance on the database.  About another hour,
I would estimate from the processing rate, so between 14:00 and 14:30 EST or
so.

Sorry for the inconvenience.  Wasn't what I expected to be doing this
morning, either.  :-)

--- Noel


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RE: http://cvs.apache.org down?

2004-11-26 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 Could not access http://cvs.apache.org (e.g.
 http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-commons/transaction/ ) for quite
 a while, anyone any idea what the problem is?

Yes.  I took that httpd instance down because it was conflicting at the time
with SVN database maintanence.  I haven't brought it back up out of concern
that something would negatively hit SVN during this period.  Just being
(perhaps overly) conservative.

--- Noel


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RE: Deciding on Java futures?

2004-10-29 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 How can we find out whats already planned by Sun.

I asked that exact question, and was told that they don't want to bias our
input by telling us what is already on the plan.  FWIW, I know that some of
the things are already on some plans there.  There is a big meeting on
Monday to address futures.

 I'm sure us Commons Math folks would all like to see the
 Nist/Java Grande rectangular matrices issue finalized and
 implemented.

 http://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=083

I don't see anything on the JSR-083 site that says that the Expert Group has
produced or finalized anything.  But to the general point ...

 Theres a severe bottleneck here where if there isn't a lead at
 Sun to channel the JCP into the standard, then it just sits there,
 festering and dying. My fear is that the same would happen to any
 of Jakarta's efforts to do the same. Ultimately, I wonder why Sun
 is going around their own designed community process to interact
 with Apache concerning these sorts of questions?

They aren't.  This request is coming from the J2SE lead.  Sun has been
speaking with many partners for months to do preliminary research for
planning the Mustang (J2SE 6) Umbrella JSR.  They explicitly hope that the
ASF will participate on that Expert Group.  This is preliminary work before
setting up the JSR.

--- Noel


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Prioritizing

2004-10-29 Thread Noel J. Bergman
There has been a lot of good discussions.  Now we need to prioritize the
list.  I have, as a strawman, started a prioritized list at the top of the
page.  I put Continutations at the top, since it had the most votes, and
added a few others.  Obviously, I'm not going to add everyone's item.  Add
your own, and add your name to others that you like.  That will give us an
idea of popularity.  I'm open to other suggestions.

--- Noel


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RE: Deciding on Java futures?

2004-10-27 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Stephen Colebourne wrote:

 How are we deciding on the Java Futures? Are we voting? Just talking?

Funny you should ask ... :-)

First, the ideas can be discussed on the mailing list, but we should collect
them on the Wiki.  Second, we should try to prioritize them.  Third, I have
some feedback already on the good stuff posted, and have been asked if we
can provide some use cases, e.g., for continuations.  Not that the ideas
aren't good, but the use cases will bolster the arguments internally at Sun
for why a given feature is important.

FWIW, I'm told that some of the ideas are already planned, so that should
make folks happy.  I'm hoping that we'll get some direct feedback on the
Wiki page from Sun.

--- Noel

-Original Message-
From: Stephen Colebourne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 19:54
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: Deciding on Java futures?


How are we deciding on the Java Futures? Are we voting? Just talking?

There are wide ranging views here, from add no more (JDK1.5 was bad enough)
to add everything but the kitchen sink.

The wiki has some simpler ideas which haven't been shouted down yet, like
jar in jar and access to the Class from a static context. I also think we
could leverage Jakarta Commons to get small useful methods added in a review
and tidy up of the core libraries (which is desparately needed). Perhaps we
could agree on these?

Could I suggest on language features, that our best approach would be to ask
Sun to allow us to discuss (in private if necessary) their proposed
additions in the next few months. That way we can feedback early our
experiences and maybe avoid adding unecessary or innappropriate 'features'.
(Personally I am on the side of most of the JDK1.5 additions being poor
choices that harm Java)

Stephen



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Sun wants Apache input on JDK futures

2004-10-25 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Sun is the final stages of collecting requirements for the releases that
will follow Tiger, which means the next 3 years.  So here's your chance to
tell Sun what you would like to see in J2SE versions 6 and 7.  Once we
gather all of the ideas, we can try to see if we can prioritize the list.

I have created a wiki page to collect the information.  Please DO NOT reply
to this message.  Instead, please use [EMAIL PROTECTED] (so that we
have one open list) to discuss your ideas.

PLEASE NOTE: In order for this information to have the most impact, Sun
needs it by end of this week (October 29th).  [The short time is not Sun's
fault.  They had asked earlier in the summer, but the ball got dropped.  I
just ran into the J2SE lead, who raised the issue again].

--- Noel


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RE: Sun wants Apache input on JDK futures

2004-10-25 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Noel J. Bergman wrote:

 I have created a wiki page to collect the information.

It would have helped if I remembered to paste the link ... 

  http://wiki.apache.org/general/JavaFutures

--- Noel

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RE: Sun wants Apache input on JDK futures

2004-10-25 Thread Noel J. Bergman
matthew.hawthorne wrote:

 Noel J. Bergman wrote:
  I have created a wiki page to collect the information.  Please DO NOT
reply
  to this message.  Instead, please use [EMAIL PROTECTED] (so
that we
  have one open list) to discuss your ideas.

 So, are you saying that instead of replying to this message, each idea
 should be in a new message thread?

Actually, I don't care so long as we don't cross-post, which was the reason
for asking people to not reply.  :-)

--- Noel


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RE: Jakarta - A study in self defeating projects

2004-10-08 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Christian Anton wrote:

 Is there a harder more terribly-documented install procedure
 for any other product??

Jakarta isn't a product.

 Why is Jakarta is comprised of a dozen or so strange components
 at varying stages of development and interoperability and
 documentation??

Because that is exactly what Jakarta is --- Jakarta is a community of
historic origin that oversees many projects written in Java.

 Why not install one single package when you can install, edit,
 install, edit, install, copy, install, edit...

When you go to the grocery store, do you expect to be provided with one
single set of cooking instructions for the frozen goods section?

 I wanted to install OpenNMS, which requires Jakarta

 I've spent the last couple hours trying to figure out how to install
jakarta.

When I read the installation documentation for OpenNMS, I see that it tells
you that you need Tomcat, provides a direct link to that project, and tells
you that it is PART OF [emphasis mine] the Jakarta Project of the Apache
Software Foundation.

  ref:
https://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=23937group_id=4141#d0e
211

If one were to RTFM, one would reach
http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/index.html, which has links to the Tomcat
binary downloads, manuals, etc.

--- Noel


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RE: SVN of ECS Re: [Jakarta Wiki] Updated: JakartaBoardReport-September2004

2004-09-22 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Daniel F. Savarese wrote:
 If someone with appropriate access wants to do the load feel free.

Done.

--- Noel

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FW: help me !!!

2004-08-13 Thread Noel J. Bergman
-Original Message-
From: Swamy, Narayana SS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 9:54
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: help me !!!



Hi there,
 I would  to member of apache jakarta subscribe commity , give
me that url of corresponding  page ?. help me

Thanx
Narayana,


RE: Who is moderating Jakarta Turbine JCS mailing lists?

2004-08-12 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Done.

--- Noel

-Original Message-
From: Henning Schmiedehausen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:44
To: Christian Geisert
Cc: Jakarta General Mailinglist; Apache Infrastructure
Subject: Re: Who is moderating Jakarta Turbine JCS mailing lists?


Hi,

thanks. As Quinton seems to do different things these days: Can you add
me too as a moderator? Thanks.

Regards
Henning


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RE: Where is Cloudscape?

2004-08-07 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Brian McCallister wrote:

 I would strongly recommend checking out Axion

 they promised users a 1.0 release in [the tigris] namespace

I hadn't heard that until recently.  Is that what accounts for the delay
between the Incubator being informed on October 16th that DB PMC had voted
to sponsor axion to the incubator and now?

 When Derby was first announced I thought it may make life rough on
 Axion, but the more I look at using Cloudscape 10 (derby initial
 codebase) the more I think Axion may make life difficult for Derby

There is a lot of potential for both of them.  I have no idea whether we'll
see the two communities and codebases merge, or just the communities with
two codebases that target somewhat different, but overlapping, segments, or
what.  That will be up to them.

How do you see the overlap and interplay between them from your review,
Brian?  :-)

--- Noel


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RE: Updating the PMC bylaws

2004-08-05 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 Interestingly, the ASF bylaws seem to imply that PMCs are only
 for members and officers of the ASF. I may be mis-interpreting:

 Project Management Committees consisting of at least one officer of the
 corporation, who shall be designated chairman of such committee, and may
 include one or more other members of the corporation.

I don't see anything that excludes non-members.  I guess it is all in how
you interpret the last clause.  I interpret it as weak, as opposed to the
strong statement made about the PMC Chair's authority.

 Every (loose) description I've seen of a PMC describes it as the
 active committers to a project.

It can be whatever you need, but it should be (IMO) *at least* the active
committers.

--- Noel


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RE: Where is Cloudscape?

2004-08-04 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 I'd suggest subscribing to [EMAIL PROTECTED] [until]
 the project has its own mailing lists.

It already does.  :-)  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Send the normal subscribe
request.

--- Noel


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RE: download pages rethink

2004-07-17 Thread Noel J. Bergman
robert burrell donkin wrote:
 IMO signatures are more important (than md5 sums) for the ASF and
 less important for users. md5 sums are quick and easy to understand.

If we were ever hacked, MD5 sums could be replaced without detection.  That
cannot be done with PGP keys, and we have had people e-mail our security
folks when they cannot locate the key for checking.  I'd sooner have files
uploaded signed, and generate the MD5s locally if missing.

 what would be useful is a list of fingerprints for code signing keys on
 the website. it would also give an extra independent security layer.

We have KEYS, which is supposed to have the public key, and we have a new
server in the UK that is supposed to provide certificate based services for
the ASF.

--- Noel


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RE: Is Jira and Eyebrowse down?

2004-07-13 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 It appear Jira and Eyebrowse are down.

Fixed.

--- Noel

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RE: [site] .htaccess file has been modified outside cvs

2004-06-27 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 the .htaccess file for the jakarta site has been modified directly but
 is maintained in CVS. unless anyone knows a good reason not to, i'll
 update the copy in CVS with the changes.

If the changes look right, please do.  Not everyone who can make changes
knows that they are supposed to effect the changes via CVS.

--- Noel


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RE: Wiki, newsletters, PMC-chair

2004-06-27 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 As the wiki-update emails don't seem to get through to this list

No one ever added the address to the allow list, so they are all pending in
the moderator queue.  And the sole moderator is rather busy right now.  So
if the PMC would like to provide some additional moderators besides Geir ...
:-)

--- Noel


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RE: Wiki, newsletters, PMC-chair

2004-06-27 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Henri Yandell wrote:
 Please add me for both [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Done.

--- Noel

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RE: [Watchdog] Dead?

2004-06-04 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 If watchdog is dead, we should move it to the Graveyard.

 Noel, you are the incubator guy, any ideas about starting this process
 - what is involved, any previous threads on the subject.

First of all, I'm curious to know what you think incubation has to do with
dormant projects.

Secondly, I'm not one who favors closing an open source project.  Ever.  I
didn't really agree with closing java.apache.org.  Although I do agree with
closing that domain, in retrospect, I'd have moved the content to Jakarta.
In my view, dormant projects should have their scm resources left in place,
and can have their mailing addresses reflected to a communal list, such as
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (or community@, although I a separate address
might be better).

It isn't as if a dormant project rots and deteriorates.  It isn't costing
anything unless there is activity.  If there are users who want to be
active, eventually people are going to have to step up and become stewards.
If a dormant project is revived by a new group, great.  If not, it just sits
fallow.  Burying a project makes it far less likely that users will be
able to organize around it.  I would certainly indicate that a project is
currently dormant, if only to let potential users know that there isn't the
kind of active community that they should expect from an ASF project.

--- Noel


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RE: [Watchdog] Dead?

2004-06-04 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Henri Yandell wrote:
 Noel J. Bergman wrote:
  Secondly, I'm not one who favors closing an open source project.
Ever.

 Only place I favour closing projects is when they are in the incubator and
 'fail', or in commons-sandbox.

Depends upon what happens in the Incubator.  If it does actually fail, then
I would probably concur that in most cases we should remove the code from
public view.  The project would be free to resurface elsewhere.

But even if a sandbox project is just an experiment, as long as it was
properly developed within the ASF (as opposed to something that improperly
bypassed the Incubator), I'd probably leave it fallow, and mark it as
dormant.

--- Noel


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RE: [Watchdog] Dead?

2004-06-04 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Yoav Shapira wrote:

 For interest's sake, let me explain what's been happening with Watchdog,
 as I think it's a useful example for other graveyard or end-of-life
 scenarios.

 We use Watchdog as part of the tomcat release process.

 A tiny change to the Watchdog build.xml would fix [a problem], and I've
 submitted a Bugzilla enhancement request with the patch.  But there's no
 one to act on my request

The idea of partitioning permissions within a TLP, as is extensively the
case within Jakarta, is broken.  A TLP is supposed to be a single cohesive
community.  Ideally, the PMC consists of all active committers.  Were there
a TLP for Tomcat and related tools, I suspect that Watchdog would be in that
TLP, even if Watchdog is also useable by other containers, and you would
have the necessary access rights.  Even in the current circumstance, it
seems to be that the Tomcat community might want to take responsibility for
Watchdog.

--- Noel


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RE: [Watchdog] Dead?

2004-06-04 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 we do need to have someone somewhere answerable to the board and with
 oversight over any project which has public resources, whether it is
 active, maintenance only or unsupported end-of-life.

Yes.  But I don't think that we need a separate TLP for it.  I would leave
the project in the community that last hosted the now dormant project.

 If enough interest is shown in a retired project it can be re-vitalised
 by a visit to the incubator.

If there is enough interest, it can be revived.  There is no need for it to
go to the Incubator at all.

 FWIW I would be happy to volunteer my time for this.

Cool.  :-)

--- Noel


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RE: [Watchdog] Dead?

2004-06-04 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 We still need to take care of the mailing lists.  I see two options:
 - We revive the watchdog-dev/watchdog-user mailing lists and redirect
 them somewhere like [EMAIL PROTECTED], or
 - We just leave them dead, take off the subscription links on the
 Watchdog site, and indicate in our notice of dormancy that questions
 about watchdog should be submitted to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Why not just monitor them?

 There's nothing to monitor: the lists are dead.

I can add redirects with about 60 seconds worth of work from start to
finish, or we can change the site.  So just make a decision as to what you
would prefer as best, and let me know.

--- Noel


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RE: [Watchdog] Dead?

2004-06-04 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Tim O'Brien wrote:
 Noel J. Bergman wrote:
   If watchdog is dead, we should move it to the Graveyard.
   Noel, you are the incubator guy, any ideas about starting
   this process
 
  First of all, I'm curious to know what you think incubation
  has to do with dormant projects.

 You've been involved in formulating a process for the introduction of
 projects, I'd imagine you have views on the removal of projects.

Ah.  Although I do have views on the subjects, I don't really see the issues
as any more related than meal preparation is related to a colonoscopy.

 I think that dormancy is a problem which is fixed by discussions like the
 one we are currently having.  If no one had stood up and taken at least
 minimal responsibility for updating some sort of status, I'm not sure it
 would have been a good idea to just let Watchdog flounder indefinitely.

Why not?  We leave the resources in place, with a notice that the project is
dormant.  If it is revitalized, great.  If not, what harm is there?  Yoav's
work on Watchdog isn't going to make it less dormant.  He will apply some
changes necessary for Tomcat; possibly ask the PMC to vote for a release (or
Tomcat will work from CVS); make the necessary changes to the site to mark
the project as stable but dormant; and invite people to be active if they
want to see further changes.

--- Noel


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RE: [Watchdog] Dead?

2004-06-04 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 We agree that burying a project is less than helpful.

 It is the invite people to be active part that interests me.  I'm not
 saying I want an activity meter the likes of Sourceforge, but it is
 polite to our users to give people a sense of activity.

Well, if we focus on the word COMMUNITY instead of PROJECT, perhaps say that
the COMMUNITY has gone quiet, I believe that they'll get the idea.  We want
to see the COMMUNITY revitalized, and I believe that people understand (or
it can be more easily explained) that participation is the necessary
ingredient.  A community is made of members.  If there are people who want
to be members, we will help support the community.

My view is that for all of the talk of CLAs, karma, and other things, the
ASF exists to SUPPORT COMMUNITIES.  We have a philosophy about what makes a
good Open Source Community, and how we want to see code licensed.  The core
mission of the ASF is to support Communities that join with us and adopt our
approach.  The ASF doesn't develop software -- it develops and enables
Communities, made up of individuals, which then develop software.  Our focus
is on people, from which we believe that code follows.

A project doesn't die.  Code doesn't keel over and go legs up.  A community
may dissolve, but the code is still there, just waiting.

--- Noel


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RE: Photoshop for the Apache Logo

2004-06-02 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Howard M. Lewis Ship asked:

  Does anyone know where the (presumably) Photoshop files are for
  the Apache logo (with the feather)?

Look in the foundation module.

--- Noel

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RE: [Watchdog] Dead?

2004-05-29 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Yoav,

 no such mailbox: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I don't know the answer to the project status, but I can confirm that there
is no such mailing list currently existent.  I don't know when it
disappeared, other than the fact that it stopped archiving back in Nov 2002,
but entire mailing lists structures don't disappear by accident.

--- Noel


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RE: Maven Repository Status

2004-04-24 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Howard M. Lewis Ship wrote:
 I've been asked to mirror the Tapestry and HiveMind libraries, but
 haven't been able to find docs on
 the web about how to do so.


Do you mean for Maven and similar tools, or the basic mirroring requested of
all ASF projects?

If the latter, it appears that Tapestry is already in the right place, and
Jakarta's download page(s) should be providing the necessary support.  See:
http://www.apache.org/dev/mirrors.html.

If for the Maven repository, see Robert has already given you good advice.

--- Noel


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RE: Hibernate in Apache projects

2004-04-20 Thread Noel J. Bergman
  As far as I know nothing has changed in regards to linking to LGPL
  code in ASL code that we host.

As I understand it, we do not want to link to LGPL code directly, but can
use it under another interface, e.g., we cannot import an LGPL package, but
if we have an LGPL service provider for JDBC, JNDI, etc., that is OK.

 if there is anything that Hibernate does that OJB doesn't, let
 us know and we'll fix that problem =) The only major feature
 Hibernate has that OJB does not is a marketing budget, to my knowledge.

Oh that is rediculous, if true!  I hear about Hiberate all the time, but I
never hear about OJB, and I had no idea it was in the same domain.  We
really need to help promote our own dogfood, at least to each other.

And, we need to improve inter-project collaboration so that when there are
issues, people find out about them so that they can fix them.

--- Noel


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RE: Struts mailing lists

2004-04-01 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 I've been waiting for the wiki to be fully set up

 The problem is that nobody with the appropriate privileges seems to have
 any time to move over some pages from the old wiki to the new one.

If all that is missing is karma, write a shell script with a list of mv
commands, and put it in your home directory.  Then add it as a request.

It is easier, and faster, to review a list of mv commands for pages than to
hunt up the data.

--- Noel


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RE: status on request to add vendor

2004-03-26 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 If there is anything else that I need to do please let me know.

Ever tossed a ball into a crowd, and watched it fall because everyone
expects someone else to deal with it?

If nothing happens sooner, ping again in a week or so.  I've got to add my
own company's information, and I can add yours when I do ours.

--- Noel


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RE: Are wiki pages backed up?

2004-03-25 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 Are our wiki pages (either old UseMod or new MoinMoin) backed up
 regularly?  Or maybe backed up somewhere like CVS?  Is there something
 we can do if someone maliciously edits a page and removes all content?

UseMod kinda, MoinMoin, I'm not sure.  In the longer run, Greg is working on
a Subversion-based Wiki that would be a drop-in replacement for our Moin
Moin Wiki Farm.

--- Noel


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RE: Jakarta embracing the JCP?

2004-03-19 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 Formulate new proposals to the Apache lists in a similar manner to a new
 JSR and write projects up in a similar format. Have named leads and ...

Having named leads of any sort is the antithesis of what I would like to
see within the ASF.

--- Noel


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RE: Apache should join the open source java discussion

2004-03-18 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 What about starting by making sure Apache java projects _do_ work with
 the 2 open source JVMs that are mentioned in the article ?

Which two?  I've had a thought to try testing James under gcj at some point.
RedHat has already done a whole bunch of Java-based Apache projects with
gcj.

--- Noel


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RE: Apache should join the open source java discussion

2004-03-18 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 What about starting by making sure Apache java projects _do_ work with
 the 2 open source JVMs that are mentioned in the article ?
 Which two?  I've had a thought to try testing James under gcj at some
point.
 RedHat has already done a whole bunch of Java-based Apache projects with
 gcj.
 Well, if you read the article that started the thread... You won't like
 it... The other open source java virtual machine is ... Mono.

The author failed to list several Open Source JVMs.  Potentially the most
promising overall, is IBM's Jikes RVM.  I think it would be fine if the GUMP
Project wanted to use Jikes RVM as part of their testing on the GUMP server.
Depending upon how long each run takes, I could see GUMP doing runs with
each of several JVMs, if the GUMP PMC felt that such compatibility testing
was of interest.  That would be particularly helpful if, as I hope, we get a
JVM and Java class library here soon, but until the Software Grant is in
Jim's file cabinet, I'm not counting chickens.

See: http://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/classpath/2003-04/msg00038.html for a
one year old summary of IKVM vs gcj vs Jikes RVM running Eclipse 2.1.  The
Jikes RVM is under the Common Public License.  There seems to be a problem
with some of IBM's web sites today, but this URL works:
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-jalapeno/.

Personally, I've been planning to try James under GCJ, because I would like
to see the impact of AOT native code compilation.

 At the moment Classpath project provides an almost complete
 implemnetation of the JDK1.3 ( with a lot of JDK1.4 ). And
 the same implementation is shared by all open source VMs
 that I know.

The quality has been uneven, but is apparently good enough to run Tomcat,
Ant, and several others.  IBM's Jikes RVM uses Classpath.

Classpath is GPL, with a binary distribution clause.  Having corresponded
with some of the Classpath developers, I know that their expressed intent is
for it to be non-viral when distributed with non-GPL applications.  I don't
know what official stance the FSF takes on that, though.

--- Noel


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RE: People's apache.org web pages

2004-03-11 Thread Noel J. Bergman
I didn't even know that http://www.apache.org/~coar/people.html existed.  My
page is deliberately terse.  Pretty much its only reason for existing is the
ICBM information.

--- Noel


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RE: JMS free Impl

2004-03-05 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 I have a small piece of code called Esperanto,  and I´d like to make a JMS
 free impl of this. It already delivers Objects in broadcast over some
 methods, and I think it could become JMS compliant with a small effort.

I know of several uses for this sort of thing, especially if small and
light to use includes high performance.  You mention that you support for
memory, file system, UDP amd TCP transports.  Do you support both NIO and
pre-NIO connections?  There could be uses for this in Geronimo (they will
need a fully-compliant JMS implementation), Directory and James.  Possibly
in Avalon Merlin if they want to use it to implement clustering.

Are you familar with http://somnifugi.sourceforge.net/?  I have had
discussions with the author, Dave Walend whom I am cc'ing, about lightweight
implementations stemming from discussions on JSR-166.  Somnifugi is nice,
but constrained to a single JVM.

--- Noel


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RE: Now about JNDI

2004-03-05 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 What about JNDI libs? Is it been built as part of Geronimo, or is there a
 single project to keep it´s developement?

See http://incubator.apache.org/directory/

--- Noel


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RE: [VOTE] HiveMind as a Jakarta sub-project

2004-03-03 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 [X] +1  I support this proposal
 [ ] -1  I don't support this proposal
 [ ]  0  I abstain from voting for or against this proposal


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RE: Proposal: Jakarta HiveMind Project

2004-03-03 Thread Noel J. Bergman
 Is arch/tla an option for Apache projects?

No.

CVS is what we've been using, Subversion is the intended migration path.

--- Noel

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RE: Proposal: Jakarta HiveMind Project

2004-03-02 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Howard,

To be clear, this is a proposal to move HiveMind out of Commons Sandbox into
Jakarta proper?  Correct?

Just to address some of the infrastructure questions that will come up if
this is approved:

 HiveMind represents a generous donation of code to the ASF by WebCT

 (3) Identify any Jakarta resources to be created
 (3.1) mailing lists
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Pretty standard fare.  We'll need some additional information, such as
moderators, etc.  See http://www.apache.org/dev/project-creation-form.txt.

 (3.2) CVS repositories
 The package shall use a root branch of the jakarta-hivemind CVS
repository.

Not Subversion?

 (3.3) Jira
 The package shall be listed as top level project, Jakarta HiveMind,
 within the Jakarta category.  It shall use the key HIVEMIND.

Anything in bugzilla that we need to migrate?

 (3.4) Wiki
 A moinmoin wiki shall be created, as
http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta-hivemind

Anything that you need migrated from the UseMod:Wiki instance?

 (4) Identify the initial set of committers to be listed in the Status
File.
 Howard M. Lewis Ship [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Prashant Nayak [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Harish Krishnaswamy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Knut Wannheden [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Erik Hatcher [EMAIL PROTECTED]

You, Harish, and Erik are fine, as far as I can see.  If the project is
accepted by the PMC, Knut Wannheden can certainly be voted karma, but a
signed CLA needs to be recorded before access is granted.  In the case of
Prashant Nayak, I believe that we will need two CLAs for him: an individual
CLA and a corporate CLA from WebCT to authorize the contributions of WebCT
employees.

--- Noel


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RE: Proposal: Jakarta HiveMind Project

2004-03-02 Thread Noel J. Bergman
   (3.2) CVS repositories
   The package shall use a root branch of the jakarta-hivemind CVS
   repository.
  Not Subversion?
 Is there a pressing reason to go subversion?

Well, this is a new module, and will be migrating this year anyway.  Is
there a reason to not use Subversion?

 Are we svn 1.0 capable at this point?

We're still running a development version, I believe.  I just put in an
inquiry asking about the update.

 From what I can tell the IDE tools (e.g. subclipse) haven't been updated
 for the 1.0 release yet.

emacs works just fine.  What more do you need?  ;-)

Ok, for the humor impaired, see: http://scm.tigris.org.  Not all of the
client code appears to be updated, yet.  I don't know if there were any
critical changes between 0.37 (linked with Subclipse) and 1.0 that would
prevent Subclipse from working.

--- Noel


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