RE: The Jakarta Site Was: [Discussion] (Fake)Forrest for Jakarta!
On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Christoph Wilhelms wrote: > Sorry! Just picking one point, but :)! Slice it all apart, one point at a time :) > > > > 7) What Apache community does Project X belong to? > > > What's an Apache community? Do you mean 'top-level project'? > > > > Nope. Like, Jakarta should point to the Apache front page > > somewhere, Ant > > should too. BSF should point to Jakarta. > > Agrreed 100% - and this is what the forrest skin does in the header line > (http://ant.apache.org, http://xml.apache.org/forrest) Of course this > feature is part of FakeForrest :) Good. Hopefully all technologies used to fuel the sites will be able to do the same. :) > > ie) Apache projects are a hierarchy. If the idea of a project being in > > multiple communities occurs, then it would list these. > > If you mean Ant for example: As you might have missed, Ant was promoted from > a Jakarta to a toplevel Apache project, so the link on Jakarta is just there > to redirekt to the correct page, because hundreds for websites, programs, > manuals etc. point to the jakarta website talking about Ant! Probably the > link can be removed from project.xml but the redirecting page has to remain > :)! Not necessarily. Even though Ant, James etc have left Jakarta, ASF discussions a while back [started off by Brian Behlendorf's email on having categories/communities] suggest that Ant and James may still belong to the Jakarta community, as well as being top-level projects. I think this entire concept is still quite in the air. > Additionally: > I think it's pretty important to know how old some information is. For this > reason (Fake)Forrest generates the deploy/generation date in the footer > row... Ah, definitely good. I'll add it to the 'contract'. Am writing up a first one now. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: The Jakarta Site Was: [Discussion] (Fake)Forrest for Jakarta!
Hi! Sorry! Just picking one point, but :)! > > > 7) What Apache community does Project X belong to? > > What's an Apache community? Do you mean 'top-level project'? > > Nope. Like, Jakarta should point to the Apache front page > somewhere, Ant > should too. BSF should point to Jakarta. Agrreed 100% - and this is what the forrest skin does in the header line (http://ant.apache.org, http://xml.apache.org/forrest) Of course this feature is part of FakeForrest :) > ie) Apache projects are a hierarchy. If the idea of a project being in > multiple communities occurs, then it would list these. If you mean Ant for example: As you might have missed, Ant was promoted from a Jakarta to a toplevel Apache project, so the link on Jakarta is just there to redirekt to the correct page, because hundreds for websites, programs, manuals etc. point to the jakarta website talking about Ant! Probably the link can be removed from project.xml but the redirecting page has to remain :)! Additionally: I think it's pretty important to know how old some information is. For this reason (Fake)Forrest generates the deploy/generation date in the footer row... Just my 2 cents :) Cheers, Chris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The Jakarta Site Was: [Discussion] (Fake)Forrest for Jakarta!
On Fri, 31 Jan 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Henri Yandell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 31/01/2003 02:28:59 PM: > > How about we give these items some names: Sounds good. > > 1) Where do I download? > Downloads > > 2) Has their been a release? > Release Notes Possibly this should be 'Status' as projects may not have had a release. I'm thinking that this section is more: Status: We are working on version 3.0. It's aimed to contain blah blah, world peace, profitable websites and no arguments. > > 3) Where are the tutorials/documentation? > Documentation > > 4) How do I complain about a bug? > Bugs > > 5) Where do I ask a question? > Mailing Lists > > > and then more minor questions like: > > > > 6) So who is behind Project X? > Team Members > > 7) What Apache community does Project X belong to? > What's an Apache community? Do you mean 'top-level project'? Nope. Like, Jakarta should point to the Apache front page somewhere, Ant should too. BSF should point to Jakarta. ie) Apache projects are a hierarchy. If the idea of a project being in multiple communities occurs, then it would list these. > > [snippage] > > Those who can't do, complain. But I'm happy to be a member of both sets. > I > > believe the first step is to actually try to cross-manage the site. Tbh, > I > What's cross-management? Management's obviously a bad word, but I'm thinking of some form of structure that Apache sites have to fit into. Like saying that every subsite has to show the Apache logo etc. Basically trying to create a site-contract that sub-projects agree to, hopefully helping to make the site more usable to users without forcing anything too painful on projects. > > Once a site-wide contract for labelling and minimum functionality is > > ironed out, each particular look and feel, project and generational tool > > are free to enhance it as much as they want, as long as they: > > > > eg) Provide a link called 'Download nightly build' or whatever. > Cool. > > Let's take a stab at it then. Okay. I'd like to start a document, I guess Wiki would be a good choice for this, and evolve the document. Wiki, Mailing list, jakarta-site2 cvs? Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The Jakarta Site Was: [Discussion] (Fake)Forrest for Jakarta!
Henri Yandell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 31/01/2003 02:28:59 PM: [snip] > However, a consistent skin might actually be the best way to get a > consistently labelled and functional site together. > > Now I get to disagree with Dion :) His list of important things, the ones > Maven produce, are by and large not important. The important things are > the ones the user cares about: They're important to me as a developer. As a user, yeah it's a different list. How about we give these items some names: > 1) Where do I download? Downloads > 2) Has their been a release? Release Notes > 3) Where are the tutorials/documentation? Documentation > 4) How do I complain about a bug? Bugs > 5) Where do I ask a question? Mailing Lists > and then more minor questions like: > > 6) So who is behind Project X? Team Members > 7) What Apache community does Project X belong to? What's an Apache community? Do you mean 'top-level project'? [snippage] > Those who can't do, complain. But I'm happy to be a member of both sets. I > believe the first step is to actually try to cross-manage the site. Tbh, I What's cross-management? > Once a site-wide contract for labelling and minimum functionality is > ironed out, each particular look and feel, project and generational tool > are free to enhance it as much as they want, as long as they: > > eg) Provide a link called 'Download nightly build' or whatever. Cool. Let's take a stab at it then. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Jakarta Site Was: [Discussion] (Fake)Forrest for Jakarta!
[Welcome to session #7829 of the open source UN] While I agree with Dion that the look and feel is secondary to content, unification of labels is the most important thing. Users should expect a project site to contain a certain set of content types, and a certain name for each content type. Actually, I'm utterly agreeing with Dion, it just seemed like a bad habit to get into this early in the game, so I had to begin by disagreeing. However, a consistent skin might actually be the best way to get a consistently labelled and functional site together. Now I get to disagree with Dion :) His list of important things, the ones Maven produce, are by and large not important. The important things are the ones the user cares about: 1) Where do I download? 2) Has their been a release? 3) Where are the tutorials/documentation? 4) How do I complain about a bug? 5) Where do I ask a question? and then more minor questions like: 6) So who is behind Project X? 7) What Apache community does Project X belong to? Currently, very few of these are well represented across the site. Generally this is a fault of the new looks and feels, the old ones managed to at least maintain consistent labelling and functionality. Examples: Alexandria uses the old look and feel, but fails to maintain the same navigation. Ant. Confusion to user? Should this be listed as a project on Jakarta, or should this be an alumni? This is a fault of the front page. Generally Ant has good links of the nav-bar, are they consistent with anyone else? They are quite close to the front page. Avalon. Look and feel is a mix between the old and the new. Quite nice. However it fails to match the navigation structure of Ant and the old site. BCEL. Mavenised? There is no download opption on the front page. This is the biggest problem on sites of this look and feel, user's cannot download the product. BSF. Old style. Nav-bar relatively the same as the front page. and the others are no better Then the front-page. Dominated by news making it hard to see the welcome. Those who can't do, complain. But I'm happy to be a member of both sets. I believe the first step is to actually try to cross-manage the site. Tbh, I think we could go a lot further wrong than by listing out an information architecture for the site [I borrowed this from the OReilly Info-Arch book: http://www.generationjava.com/articles/web/infoArch.shtml]. Once a site-wide contract for labelling and minimum functionality is ironed out, each particular look and feel, project and generational tool are free to enhance it as much as they want, as long as they: eg) Provide a link called 'Download nightly build' or whatever. Hen On Fri, 31 Jan 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Content of the site is far more important to me than the skin. > > I'd much rather we had all projects/sites listing a common, agreed upon > set of information that is useful. For example, the set of reports maven > produces under the heading Project Info (see > http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/project-info.html ), along with > source cross reference and javadocs, cvs activity reporting, unit test and > 'style conformance'. > > Skins are secondary for me. If we could get consistent content across > Jakarta, having a consistent look and feel would be the next step. But > having everything look pretty but be incomplete is not much of a step up. > > So, how about getting some consistency in our navigation and content as > part of the process? > -- > dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting > Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog > Work: http://www.multitask.com.au > > > Glen Stampoultzis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 31/01/2003 12:44:53 > PM: > > > Hi. I think this is important and I would love to see some unification > of > > skins on Apache. While we may choose to use different tools to build > our > > sites but I think we should push to make the look of the project > > consistent. The current mess of different skins makes the site look > sloppy. > > > > Agree/disagree? Lets hear your opinion. > > > > Regards, > > > > Glen Stampoultzis > > > > > > At 08:42 AM 30/01/2003 +0100, you wrote: > > >Hi all! > > > > > >I saw the "Tapestry" discussion, and this remindet me, that I wanted to > > >"carry" FakeForrest to Jakarta! > > > > > >So what is it? Simple: It's a set of 2 Velocity/Anakia template-files > and > > >some images. The Velocity templates are build upon the Jakarta-ones and > > >follow the Jakarta-Anakia-DTD! > > > > > >What does it? It renders Anakia-build websites with the (current - with > some > > >small modifications - see below) Forrest skin. > > > > > >Where can I find it? We currently use this to build the > > >http://ant.apache.org website so you can preview the result there and > the > > >sources are in the Ant-cvs > > >http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-ant/xdocs/stylesheets/. > > > > > >Why should we use it? IMHO it is the FASTEST way to provide a nice, > > >function
Re: [Discussion] (Fake)Forrest for Jakarta!
Content of the site is far more important to me than the skin. I'd much rather we had all projects/sites listing a common, agreed upon set of information that is useful. For example, the set of reports maven produces under the heading Project Info (see http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/project-info.html ), along with source cross reference and javadocs, cvs activity reporting, unit test and 'style conformance'. Skins are secondary for me. If we could get consistent content across Jakarta, having a consistent look and feel would be the next step. But having everything look pretty but be incomplete is not much of a step up. So, how about getting some consistency in our navigation and content as part of the process? -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Glen Stampoultzis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 31/01/2003 12:44:53 PM: > Hi. I think this is important and I would love to see some unification of > skins on Apache. While we may choose to use different tools to build our > sites but I think we should push to make the look of the project > consistent. The current mess of different skins makes the site look sloppy. > > Agree/disagree? Lets hear your opinion. > > Regards, > > Glen Stampoultzis > > > At 08:42 AM 30/01/2003 +0100, you wrote: > >Hi all! > > > >I saw the "Tapestry" discussion, and this remindet me, that I wanted to > >"carry" FakeForrest to Jakarta! > > > >So what is it? Simple: It's a set of 2 Velocity/Anakia template-files and > >some images. The Velocity templates are build upon the Jakarta-ones and > >follow the Jakarta-Anakia-DTD! > > > >What does it? It renders Anakia-build websites with the (current - with some > >small modifications - see below) Forrest skin. > > > >Where can I find it? We currently use this to build the > >http://ant.apache.org website so you can preview the result there and the > >sources are in the Ant-cvs > >http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-ant/xdocs/stylesheets/. > > > >Why should we use it? IMHO it is the FASTEST way to provide a nice, > >functional and consistent look of the entire xxx.apache.org website! > > > >Are there any limitations? Yes: Currently there are no multiple tabs for > >menues on the left side, but this can easyly be solved by allowing multiple > >menu-sections in the proect.xml > > > >Additionally: We (Conor ;)) recently fixed some incompatibilities with the > >HTML 4.01 standard so it now generates validatable HTML 4.01 code! It's > >proved, it works, it's nice ;). > > > >Remark: I do not see Fake-Forrest as the final solution, but its a nice and > >fast way in moving to a nice new, consisten etc. look of the Apache website, > >as I said before! > > > >Thoughts? > >Christoph > > > >- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ForwardSourceID:NT000AB40A - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Discussion] (Fake)Forrest for Jakarta!
Hi. I think this is important and I would love to see some unification of skins on Apache. While we may choose to use different tools to build our sites but I think we should push to make the look of the project consistent. The current mess of different skins makes the site look sloppy. Agree/disagree? Lets hear your opinion. Regards, Glen Stampoultzis At 08:42 AM 30/01/2003 +0100, you wrote: Hi all! I saw the "Tapestry" discussion, and this remindet me, that I wanted to "carry" FakeForrest to Jakarta! So what is it? Simple: It's a set of 2 Velocity/Anakia template-files and some images. The Velocity templates are build upon the Jakarta-ones and follow the Jakarta-Anakia-DTD! What does it? It renders Anakia-build websites with the (current - with some small modifications - see below) Forrest skin. Where can I find it? We currently use this to build the http://ant.apache.org website so you can preview the result there and the sources are in the Ant-cvs http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-ant/xdocs/stylesheets/. Why should we use it? IMHO it is the FASTEST way to provide a nice, functional and consistent look of the entire xxx.apache.org website! Are there any limitations? Yes: Currently there are no multiple tabs for menues on the left side, but this can easyly be solved by allowing multiple menu-sections in the proect.xml Additionally: We (Conor ;)) recently fixed some incompatibilities with the HTML 4.01 standard so it now generates validatable HTML 4.01 code! It's proved, it works, it's nice ;). Remark: I do not see Fake-Forrest as the final solution, but its a nice and fast way in moving to a nice new, consisten etc. look of the Apache website, as I said before! Thoughts? Christoph - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Discussion] (Fake)Forrest for Jakarta!
Hi all! I saw the "Tapestry" discussion, and this remindet me, that I wanted to "carry" FakeForrest to Jakarta! So what is it? Simple: It's a set of 2 Velocity/Anakia template-files and some images. The Velocity templates are build upon the Jakarta-ones and follow the Jakarta-Anakia-DTD! What does it? It renders Anakia-build websites with the (current - with some small modifications - see below) Forrest skin. Where can I find it? We currently use this to build the http://ant.apache.org website so you can preview the result there and the sources are in the Ant-cvs http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-ant/xdocs/stylesheets/. Why should we use it? IMHO it is the FASTEST way to provide a nice, functional and consistent look of the entire xxx.apache.org website! Are there any limitations? Yes: Currently there are no multiple tabs for menues on the left side, but this can easyly be solved by allowing multiple menu-sections in the proect.xml Additionally: We (Conor ;)) recently fixed some incompatibilities with the HTML 4.01 standard so it now generates validatable HTML 4.01 code! It's proved, it works, it's nice ;). Remark: I do not see Fake-Forrest as the final solution, but its a nice and fast way in moving to a nice new, consisten etc. look of the Apache website, as I said before! Thoughts? Christoph - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
