Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-21 Thread Danny Angus
Remy wrote: I am definitely contributing to Tomcat as part of my employment at JBoss. I am not contributing on my own free time to Tomcat as an individual at the moment, and (as far as I can remember, as it was a while ago ...) have submitted a company CLA reflecting that

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-21 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr .
On Mar 20, 2005, at 7:20 PM, Bill Barker wrote: - Original Message - From: Jim Jagielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: general@jakarta.apache.org Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change Henri Yandell wrote: It may be that leading contributor

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-21 Thread Jim Jagielski
On Mar 20, 2005, at 7:20 PM, Bill Barker wrote: And, yet, all of the complaints about the article have been from people that aren't involved with Tomcat development ;-). I think that's an unfair statement... does that fact diminish the accuracy of what anyone is saying? I would also wager that

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-21 Thread Remy Maucherat
Jim Jagielski wrote: On Mar 20, 2005, at 7:20 PM, Bill Barker wrote: And, yet, all of the complaints about the article have been from people that aren't involved with Tomcat development ;-). I think that's an unfair statement... does that fact diminish the accuracy of what anyone is saying? I

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-21 Thread Jim Jagielski
Remy Maucherat wrote: Jim Jagielski wrote: On Mar 20, 2005, at 7:20 PM, Bill Barker wrote: And, yet, all of the complaints about the article have been from people that aren't involved with Tomcat development ;-). I think that's an unfair statement... does that fact diminish the

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-21 Thread Remy Maucherat
Jim Jagielski wrote: That would be kind of impossible to do, logically :) But I would agree that other companies have occasionally crossed lines that should not have been crossed, both companies associated with ASF projects and external companies that have no ties or links at all. In those cases

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-21 Thread Davanum Srinivas
Remy, +1 to more code, less politics :) No one is gonna kick you out. All of us are in this mess together :) :) -- dims On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 16:24:34 +0100, Remy Maucherat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim Jagielski wrote: That would be kind of impossible to do, logically :) But I would agree

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-21 Thread Jim Jagielski
On Mar 21, 2005, at 10:24 AM, Remy Maucherat wrote: Jim Jagielski wrote: That would be kind of impossible to do, logically :) But I would agree that other companies have occasionally crossed lines that should not have been crossed, both companies associated with ASF projects and external companies

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-21 Thread Danny Angus
At this point, how about simply kicking me out and ending the problems faster ? Just one quick vote on board@ and any future issues disappear magically. Oh grow up. No one has criticised you, no one has complained that you are paid by JBOSS, no one has criticised your contributions, no one

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-21 Thread Remy Maucherat
Jim Jagielski wrote: On Mar 21, 2005, at 10:24 AM, Remy Maucherat wrote: Great, so you manage to sneak by an assertion that a line have been crossed here. Cool debate ;) My intent was not to make an accusation but rather a simple statement that any issue we are talking about is not unique or

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-21 Thread Costin Manolache
Danny Angus wrote: ... the issue is *only* that The Apache Jakarta Project and leading Tomcat contributor JBoss implys that JBOSS is not only a contributor, but *the* major contributor. Fact is that JBoss is _a_ major contributor to tomcat. So is any company that have committers working full

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-21 Thread Jim Jagielski
Costin Manolache wrote: Danny Angus wrote: ... the issue is *only* that The Apache Jakarta Project and leading Tomcat contributor JBoss implys that JBOSS is not only a contributor, but *the* major contributor. Fact is that JBoss is _a_ major contributor to tomcat. So is any company

RE: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-21 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Costin Manolache wrote: I'm +1 on your email if you are going to send the same kind of email for every use of Tomcat and if we are going to send an email every time a company or individual claims he is making 'lead contributions' to an apache project. And I would feel much better if such

RE: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-21 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Serge Knystautas wrote: Noel J. Bergman wrote: Remy Maucherat wrote: it is obvious Apache has the notion of company contributions. Companies authorize individuals where their employment agreement might be in conflict with a CLA, and companies can provide a Software Grant in the case where

RE: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-21 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Remy Maucherat wrote: What if I, on the opposite, contend that if it had been any other company with any other ASF project, nobody would have bothered ? Can you prove me wrong ? Multiple companies have, in fact, been contacted and dealt with over what was perceived to be misleading PR and

RE: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-20 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Remy Maucherat wrote: I am definitely contributing to Tomcat as part of my employment at JBoss. I am not contributing on my own free time to Tomcat as an individual at the moment If you look at the CLA, you'll see that all contributions are made by individuals, irrespective of motivation or

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-20 Thread Torsten Curdt
I think continuing with the current attitude would only lead my company to reevaluate its involvement in ASF projects, and I could not really blame them if they did. Of course, this may be what some people here seek (hopefully, it is not and it's just my paranoia at work). I am sure the

RE: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-20 Thread Tim O'Brien
On the -1's (or at least the negative opinions to this), we have Tim who thinks that it's a waste to talk to SD and we should focus on making sure the branding message is clearer. Henri, I'm not -1, you can send it if you want. You are (after all) Jakarta. :-) I just wanted to voice

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-20 Thread Giorgio Gallo
--Foreword Hi all, I never wrote to this list before today - though I've been lurking it since some time ago. I'm not a committer/contributor of any of ASF projects. My interest in this list is because I'm working (privately) on something I paln to donate when it will be a bit finished (if it

RE: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-20 Thread Henri Yandell
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005, Tim O'Brien wrote: On the -1's (or at least the negative opinions to this), we have Tim who thinks that it's a waste to talk to SD and we should focus on making sure the branding message is clearer. Henri, I'm not -1, you can send it if you want. You are (after all)

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-20 Thread Henri Yandell
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005, Giorgio Gallo wrote: --Foreword Hi all, I never wrote to this list before today - though I've been lurking it since some time ago. Brave topic to make your first email :) I'm not a committer/contributor of any of ASF projects. My interest in this list is because I'm working

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-20 Thread Costin Manolache
Davanum Srinivas wrote: Rémy, You will probably need to resend the CCLA...i can't find in the regular location where ccla's are recorded. - Can u please explain what you mean by current attitude? It's already 'explained' in various mailing list archives, including this thread :-) - Are u saying

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-20 Thread Serge Knystautas
Noel J. Bergman wrote: Remy Maucherat wrote: it is obvious Apache has the notion of company contributions. Companies authorize individuals where their employment agreement might be in conflict with a CLA, and companies can provide a Software Grant in the case where the existing IP is owned by the

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-20 Thread Will Glass-Husain
I think one of the great things about the ASF is that it does allow commercial involvement in their projects. I'd love us to figure out how we ARE comfortable thanking JBoss, IBM, etc.. rather than only reacting when we feel a line is crossed. Amen! (said as a commiter involved in a commercial

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-20 Thread Jim Jagielski
Henri Yandell wrote: It may be that leading contributor is, while not an 'Apache Way' to discuss something, a completely true piece of investigative journalism. There are definitely parts of Commons where a little bit of investigation could point out that Yes, on DBUtils 1.0, David

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-20 Thread Jim Jagielski
Tim O'Brien wrote: Henri, I'm not -1, you can send it if you want. You are (after all) Jakarta. :-)=20 Of course, that's just as wrong as the concept of Leading Contributor or Main Developer :) -- === Jim

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-20 Thread Jim Jagielski
Remy Maucherat wrote: I am definitely contributing to Tomcat as part of my employment at JBoss. I am not contributing on my own free time to Tomcat as an individual at the moment, and (as far as I can remember, as it was a while ago ...) have submitted a company CLA reflecting that

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-20 Thread Henri Yandell
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005, Jim Jagielski wrote: Tim O'Brien wrote: Henri, I'm not -1, you can send it if you want. You are (after all) Jakarta. :-)=20 Of course, that's just as wrong as the concept of Leading Contributor or Main Developer :) To give Tim context, it's a joke referring to a private

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-20 Thread Bill Barker
- Original Message - From: Jim Jagielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: general@jakarta.apache.org Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change Henri Yandell wrote: It may be that leading contributor is, while not an 'Apache Way' to discuss something

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-20 Thread Henri Yandell
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005, Bill Barker wrote: - Original Message - From: Jim Jagielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: general@jakarta.apache.org Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change Henri Yandell wrote: It may be that leading contributor is, while

RE: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-20 Thread Noel J. Bergman
And, yet, all of the complaints about the article have been from people that aren't involved with Tomcat development ;-). Obvious quandry for me, we don't really have any concept of subcommunity, apart from the individual dev lists, it's supposed to be the Jakarta community at large

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-20 Thread Costin Manolache
, or the reality. Costin Henri Yandell wrote: On Sun, 20 Mar 2005, Bill Barker wrote: - Original Message - From: Jim Jagielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: general@jakarta.apache.org Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change Henri Yandell wrote: It may

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-20 Thread Henri Yandell
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005, Costin Manolache wrote: It's never bad to clarify things. Really? My wife tells me I do it all the time and need to learn to shut up :) For example ( honestly ! ) it's the first time I hear that the name of the project is Apache Tomcat. Someone should send a mail to

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-20 Thread Davanum Srinivas
: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change Henri Yandell wrote: It may be that leading contributor is, while not an 'Apache Way' to discuss something, a completely true piece of investigative journalism. There are definitely parts of Commons where a little bit of investigation could point

[draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-19 Thread Henri Yandell
Due to the timeliness of this, I plan to send it Sunday night. Given that we're on a weekend, I doubt it will be read until Monday. Any opinions? - To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Tomcat 5.0 error in JOLT announcement Hi Kate, I'm writing to let you know about a

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-19 Thread Jim Jagielski
+1 On Mar 19, 2005, at 1:18 PM, Henri Yandell wrote: Due to the timeliness of this, I plan to send it Sunday night. Given that we're on a weekend, I doubt it will be read until Monday. Any opinions? - To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Tomcat 5.0 error in JOLT

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-19 Thread Torsten Curdt
Sounds good +1 cheers -- Torsten signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-19 Thread Will Glass-Husain
] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: general@jakarta.apache.org Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 10:18 AM Subject: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change Due to the timeliness of this, I plan to send it Sunday night. Given that we're on a weekend, I doubt it will be read until Monday. Any opinions

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-19 Thread Henri Yandell
Message - From: Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: general@jakarta.apache.org Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 10:18 AM Subject: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change Due to the timeliness of this, I plan to send it Sunday night. Given that we're on a weekend, I doubt

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-19 Thread Will Glass-Husain
, March 19, 2005 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change I did consider it, but thought that a request for: Apache Tomcat 5.0 (The Apache Software Foundation) would be overkill. In much the same way that they have: Flash Lite 1.1 (Macromedia) and yet it's correctly referred

RE: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-19 Thread Tim O'Brien
Message- From: Henri Yandell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 12:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: general@jakarta.apache.org Subject: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change Due to the timeliness of this, I plan to send it Sunday night. Given that we're

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-19 Thread Henri Yandell
, WILL - Original Message - From: Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: general@jakarta.apache.org Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 10:18 AM Subject: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change Due to the timeliness of this, I plan to send it Sunday night. Given that we're on a weekend, I

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-19 Thread Daniel Quinlan
Added carbon copy to PRC. Left original message more or less intact so they can follow. ;-) Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Due to the timeliness of this, I plan to send it Sunday night. Given that we're on a weekend, I doubt it will be read until Monday. Still, I'd send earlier if

RE: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-19 Thread Henri Yandell
On Sat, 19 Mar 2005, Tim O'Brien wrote: I think the Jolt awards knew better and were trying to send a message similar to the '94 nobel peace prize for Arafat, Peres, and Rabin (which incidentally didn't work very well). (Or, the '98 award for Hume and You really think so? My assumption is that

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-19 Thread Henri Yandell
On Sat, 19 Mar 2005, Daniel Quinlan wrote: Added carbon copy to PRC. Left original message more or less intact so they can follow. ;-) Thanks Daniel, all good stuff. I'll incorporate it and send a new version to all three lists sometime tonight. Hen

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-19 Thread Remy Maucherat
Henri Yandell wrote: Due to the timeliness of this, I plan to send it Sunday night. Given that we're on a weekend, I doubt it will be read until Monday. Any opinions? I am definitely contributing to Tomcat as part of my employment at JBoss. I am not contributing on my own free time to Tomcat as

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-19 Thread Phil Steitz
Henri Yandell wrote: snip/ You've pointed out that JBoss are the contributor in your commits, rather than yourself as an individual. I assume other JBoss employees are in the same situation. How does that change the email? Do I need to drop the paragraph about JBoss not being a contributor I

Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change

2005-03-19 Thread Davanum Srinivas
Rémy, You will probably need to resend the CCLA...i can't find in the regular location where ccla's are recorded. - Can u please explain what you mean by current attitude? - Are u saying that Tomcat is *NOT* really Apache Tomcat? - Are you saying that we need to formalize a mechanism to figure