Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-07 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On 5/6/02 6:34 PM, Daniel Rall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I was thinking that a better name might be 'dataaccess' or something to reflect the fact that the scope isn't just about formal db's. Not sure. We can keep it as 'db' as a working name

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-07 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
Discussion : creation of DBCommons ? I don't have a problem with db, but if that is associated too strongly with relational databases, how about datamanagement or dm? Another option would be just data. Jim Seach -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-06 Thread Daniel Rall
Martin Poeschl [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: i just sent a proposal to the torque list to move to db ...which has been approved by the developers. - Dan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-06 Thread Jim Seach
I don't have a problem with db, but if that is associated too strongly with relational databases, how about datamanagement or dm? Another option would be just data. Jim Seach --- Daniel Rall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I was thinking that a better

RE: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-06 Thread Jeff Schnitzer
sort of meat seasoning. No MSG! -Original Message- From: Jim Seach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 3:42 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ? I don't have a problem with db, but if that is associated

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-06 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
If I were going to Apache to look for database stuff be it a database (object oriented or not) and/or stuff to work with it...I'd be prone to look at db.apache.org. Then again... Jakarta == Java?? ;-) -Andy On Mon, 2002-05-06 at 18:44, Peter Donald wrote: On Tue, 7 May 2002 08:34, Daniel Rall

RE: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-06 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
, May 06, 2002 3:42 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ? I don't have a problem with db, but if that is associated too strongly with relational databases, how about datamanagement or dm? Another option would be just data

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-04 Thread Thomas Mahler
Hi Geir, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: On 5/3/02 6:01 PM, Thomas Mahler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I think db.apache.org is a great idea. And we will be happy to be part of it ! I was going to write to you to discuss the idea, but it's better to discuss here. I am glad to see that you

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-04 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On 5/4/02 9:26 AM, Martin Poeschl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: On 5/4/02 3:41 AM, Thomas Mahler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Geir, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: On 5/3/02 6:01 PM, Thomas Mahler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I think db.apache.org is a great

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-04 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
Naw I'd like to see an httpd-like answer to object-oriented-databases one day. Rather a name that deosn't preclude it... -Andy We have some time now. I was thinking about this during yoga (I started yoga. It's very cool. I wasn't supposed to be thinking about anything but my 'wisdom

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread Bill Barker
- Original Message - From: Stefan Bodewig [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 11:02 PM Subject: Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ? On Thu, 02 May 2002, Geir Magnusson, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Costin suggested, and I

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread Peter Donald
On Fri, 3 May 2002 11:44, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: On 5/2/02 6:33 PM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, OJB deserves to be a peer to other projects alongside ant, avalon, struts etc For future reference, can we quantify this 'deservation' of peerage? It should be size of

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread costinm
On Thu, 2 May 2002, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: So much like xml.apache.org deals with XML, db.apache.org will deal with databases (maybe even collaborate with xml.apache.org/xindice in future). So I propose that we put together a proposal for a db.apache.org. We should I don't believe

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread costinm
On Thu, 2 May 2002, Bill Barker wrote: +1 Unless Costin's proposal is to kick it up to the Apache PMC, then all the I only made a comment that I think a larger scope for the project would be usefull. Many jakarta projects are out of scope ( or at least doing many things that are hardly

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread Stefan Bodewig
On Fri, 3 May 2002, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I only made a comment that I think a larger scope for the project would be usefull. That's been my understanding of it - and I agree with the comment 8-) Stefan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands,

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On 5/3/02 3:06 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2 May 2002, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: So much like xml.apache.org deals with XML, db.apache.org will deal with databases (maybe even collaborate with xml.apache.org/xindice in future). So I propose that we put

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On 5/3/02 2:02 AM, Stefan Bodewig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 02 May 2002, Geir Magnusson, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Costin suggested, and I supported, that a subproject of wider scope be created to allow the collection of similar technologies into one larger subcommunity. First

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On 5/3/02 2:55 AM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 3 May 2002 11:44, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: On 5/2/02 6:33 PM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, OJB deserves to be a peer to other projects alongside ant, avalon, struts etc For future reference, can we quantify

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread Martin Poeschl
James Strachan wrote: From: Stefan Bodewig [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, 02 May 2002, Geir Magnusson, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Costin suggested, and I supported, that a subproject of wider scope be created to allow the collection of similar technologies into one larger subcommunity. First

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On 5/3/02 6:37 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the end I think it would be best move for OJB group (much better awareness and promotion and in the end development) however it comes down to whether they want to do it and if there is enough Apache volunteers to get it going.

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread Leo Simons
The only problem is that yours so far is the only public positive comment so far. I let it stew for a bit and will talk to OJB in the intrim, but if people don't see this as a good idea, then it very could might not be. well, if you insist, +1 then ;) As long as there's room for

RE: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread Waldhoff, Rodney
Berin wrote: There are some things we have in Excalibur that we *can't* donate to Commons because the charter does not allow it (I think its something about the project can't rely on non-commons projects or something). What gives you that idea? Many if not most commons projects rely

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On 5/3/02 8:24 AM, Waldhoff, Rodney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Berin wrote: There are some things we have in Excalibur that we *can't* donate to Commons because the charter does not allow it (I think its something about the project can't rely on non-commons projects or something). What

RE: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread Waldhoff, Rodney
Discussion : creation of DBCommons ? On 5/3/02 8:24 AM, Waldhoff, Rodney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Berin wrote: There are some things we have in Excalibur that we *can't* donate to Commons because the charter does not allow it (I think its something about the project can't rely on non-commons

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On 5/3/02 9:51 AM, Waldhoff, Rodney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You mean this? [jakarta-commons] shall create and maintain packages written in the Java language, intended for use in server-related development, and designed to be used independently of any

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread costinm
On Fri, 3 May 2002, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: I'll iterate : the point isn't just for it to be OJB, but to put together a package of projects that want to do this. I think the only way for it to be a strong apache community is if it has a large amount of apache participation. The only way

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On 5/3/02 10:56 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 3 May 2002, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: I'll iterate : the point isn't just for it to be OJB, but to put together a package of projects that want to do this. I think the only way for it to be a strong apache community is

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread Henri Yandell
On Fri, 3 May 2002, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: I'm also very unhappy with the xml/jakarta separation and the balkanisation of apache - as well shown by the current maven/forest/cocoon/centipede discussion, where even xml.apache.org is affected by jakarta's NIH. So I'll be -1 ( as a

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On 5/3/02 12:04 PM, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 3 May 2002, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: I'm also very unhappy with the xml/jakarta separation and the balkanisation of apache - as well shown by the current maven/forest/cocoon/centipede discussion, where even

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread Henri Yandell
On Fri, 3 May 2002, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: My point is that, like it or not (I like it, Costin doesn't) there is some benefit of letting like minded people form a community unto themselves - this is the whole argument behind bringing XML and Jakarta together - lots of like minded

RE: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread Waldhoff, Rodney
Henri Yandell wrote: +1 on Jakarta.OJB. -1 on Jakarta.DB-Commons unless otherwise convinced. -1 on db.apache.org, unless people start offering bribes. I agree with all that. Let's let something like jakarta-db[commons] or db.apache.org evolve naturally. Start small and let it grow. It

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread costinm
On Fri, 3 May 2002, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: They _will_ be apache people. Of course they _will_ be apache people, but they _aren't_ now. That isn't a bad thing, a criticism or an insult. Just recognizing the reality. The project was aproved by the PMC - so their commiters _are_

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On 5/3/02 1:14 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 3 May 2002, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: They _will_ be apache people. Of course they _will_ be apache people, but they _aren't_ now. That isn't a bad thing, a criticism or an insult. Just recognizing the reality. The

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread Thomas Mahler
Hi, Martin Poeschl wrote: snip there are only 2 apache developers on the ojb developer list (Jason van Zyl and me) i think it would be good to give the other ojb developers some time to see how everything works here . I agree. We (the OJB developers) will need some time to get used to

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On 5/3/02 6:01 PM, Thomas Mahler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Welcome, Thomas. Hi, Martin Poeschl wrote: snip there are only 2 apache developers on the ojb developer list (Jason van Zyl and me) i think it would be good to give the other ojb developers some time to see how everything

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-03 Thread Henri Yandell
Martin Poeschl wrote: snip there are only 2 apache developers on the ojb developer list (Jason van Zyl and me) i think it would be good to give the other ojb developers some time to see how everything works here . I think I need to speak more often then :) Admittedly, I'm only a

Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-02 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
I hate to interrupt all the good fun over standards, bike sheds, and general good community feelings, but I would like to solicit community opinion on something unrelated to DVSL or Jon Stevens (both of which I like, btw...) Recently, it was proposed that ObjectBridge be brought to Jakarta as

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-02 Thread Berin Loritsch
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: I hate to interrupt all the good fun over standards, bike sheds, and general good community feelings, but I would like to solicit community opinion on something unrelated to DVSL or Jon Stevens (both of which I like, btw...) You're taking away all the fun :)

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-02 Thread Peter Donald
Hi, OJB deserves to be a peer to other projects alongside ant, avalon, struts etc A somewhat better idea IMO would be to use OJB + Torque as a trampoline for a new top-level project db.apache.org (or insert something more snappy if you want). So much like xml.apache.org deals with XML,

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-02 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On 5/2/02 6:09 PM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If it means no more daily messages about object relational mapping tools on this list... Right - would keep the list clear for the current important stuff... ;) then it has my full blessing! I suggest an effort be made to

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-02 Thread John McNally
I think ojb can do things like map a set of related objects to xml as well. Its not completely database centered. (I know very little about ojb, so feel free to dispute that. Just thought I would bring it up in case those that know better, are tuned out.) john mcnally On Thu, 2002-05-02 at

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-02 Thread James Taylor
On Thu, 2002-05-02 at 17:33, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: I hate to interrupt all the good fun over standards, bike sheds, and general good community feelings, but I would like to solicit community opinion on something unrelated to DVSL or Jon Stevens (both of which I like, btw...) Thank god.

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-02 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On 5/2/02 6:33 PM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, OJB deserves to be a peer to other projects alongside ant, avalon, struts etc For future reference, can we quantify this 'deservation' of peerage? I do know what you mean intuitively but there are all sorts of great things

Re: Database Subproject Discussion : creation of DBCommons ?

2002-05-02 Thread Stefan Bodewig
On Thu, 02 May 2002, Geir Magnusson, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Costin suggested, and I supported, that a subproject of wider scope be created to allow the collection of similar technologies into one larger subcommunity. First of all, I like the idea. But in general I think this should