Re: Deciding on Java futures?
Noel, How can we find out whats already planned by Sun. For instance, I'm sure us Commons Math folks would all like to see the Nist/Java Grande rectangular matrices issue finalized and implemented. http://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=083 But its difficult to see if this is stalled or dead at this point. Seems the issue is not that Sun needs more ideas, seems they need better execution on the those that already do exist in the JCP. Theres a severe bottleneck here where if there isn't a lead at Sun to channel the JCP into the standard, then it just sits there, festering and dying. My fear is that the same would happen to any of Jakarta's efforts to do the same. Ultimately, I wonder why Sun is going around their own designed community process to interact with Apache concerning these sorts of questions? Who's spearheading this from Sun's side? Is this evidence that JCP is a failing process? -Mark -- Mark Diggory Software Developer Harvard MIT Data Center http://www.hmdc.harvard.edu - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Deciding on Java futures?
How can we find out whats already planned by Sun. I asked that exact question, and was told that they don't want to bias our input by telling us what is already on the plan. FWIW, I know that some of the things are already on some plans there. There is a big meeting on Monday to address futures. I'm sure us Commons Math folks would all like to see the Nist/Java Grande rectangular matrices issue finalized and implemented. http://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=083 I don't see anything on the JSR-083 site that says that the Expert Group has produced or finalized anything. But to the general point ... Theres a severe bottleneck here where if there isn't a lead at Sun to channel the JCP into the standard, then it just sits there, festering and dying. My fear is that the same would happen to any of Jakarta's efforts to do the same. Ultimately, I wonder why Sun is going around their own designed community process to interact with Apache concerning these sorts of questions? They aren't. This request is coming from the J2SE lead. Sun has been speaking with many partners for months to do preliminary research for planning the Mustang (J2SE 6) Umbrella JSR. They explicitly hope that the ASF will participate on that Expert Group. This is preliminary work before setting up the JSR. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Deciding on Java futures?
http://wiki.apache.org/general/JavaFutures Stephen --- Dakota Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What wiki, where? Thanx, Jack On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:08:36 -0400, Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First, the ideas can be discussed on the mailing list, but we should collect them on the Wiki. Second, we should try to prioritize them. Third, I have some feedback already on the good stuff posted, and have been asked if we I'm hoping that we'll get some direct feedback on the Wiki page from Sun. --- Noel -- You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep. ~Native Proverb~ Each man is good in His sight. It is not necessary for eagles to be crows. ~Hunkesni (Sitting Bull), Hunkpapa Sioux~ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Deciding on Java futures?
I can't quite see us managing this by tomorrow :-) Actually my concern is that we may add stuff to Java that harms rather than helps (Java isn't C or C++). So, my question remains whether we have any opportunity to vote against bad ideas. Anyway, its good to have some interaction with Sun ;-) Stephen --- Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First, the ideas can be discussed on the mailing list, but we should collect them on the Wiki. Second, we should try to prioritize them. Third, I have some feedback already on the good stuff posted, and have been asked if we can provide some use cases, e.g., for continuations. Not that the ideas aren't good, but the use cases will bolster the arguments internally at Sun for why a given feature is important. FWIW, I'm told that some of the ideas are already planned, so that should make folks happy. I'm hoping that we'll get some direct feedback on the Wiki page from Sun. --- Noel -Original Message- From: Stephen Colebourne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 19:54 To: Jakarta General List Subject: Deciding on Java futures? How are we deciding on the Java Futures? Are we voting? Just talking? There are wide ranging views here, from add no more (JDK1.5 was bad enough) to add everything but the kitchen sink. The wiki has some simpler ideas which haven't been shouted down yet, like jar in jar and access to the Class from a static context. I also think we could leverage Jakarta Commons to get small useful methods added in a review and tidy up of the core libraries (which is desparately needed). Perhaps we could agree on these? Could I suggest on language features, that our best approach would be to ask Sun to allow us to discuss (in private if necessary) their proposed additions in the next few months. That way we can feedback early our experiences and maybe avoid adding unecessary or innappropriate 'features'. (Personally I am on the side of most of the JDK1.5 additions being poor choices that harm Java) Stephen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Deciding on Java futures?
How are we deciding on the Java Futures? Are we voting? Just talking? There are wide ranging views here, from add no more (JDK1.5 was bad enough) to add everything but the kitchen sink. The wiki has some simpler ideas which haven't been shouted down yet, like jar in jar and access to the Class from a static context. I also think we could leverage Jakarta Commons to get small useful methods added in a review and tidy up of the core libraries (which is desparately needed). Perhaps we could agree on these? Could I suggest on language features, that our best approach would be to ask Sun to allow us to discuss (in private if necessary) their proposed additions in the next few months. That way we can feedback early our experiences and maybe avoid adding unecessary or innappropriate 'features'. (Personally I am on the side of most of the JDK1.5 additions being poor choices that harm Java) Stephen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Deciding on Java futures?
Stephen Colebourne wrote: How are we deciding on the Java Futures? Are we voting? Just talking? Funny you should ask ... :-) First, the ideas can be discussed on the mailing list, but we should collect them on the Wiki. Second, we should try to prioritize them. Third, I have some feedback already on the good stuff posted, and have been asked if we can provide some use cases, e.g., for continuations. Not that the ideas aren't good, but the use cases will bolster the arguments internally at Sun for why a given feature is important. FWIW, I'm told that some of the ideas are already planned, so that should make folks happy. I'm hoping that we'll get some direct feedback on the Wiki page from Sun. --- Noel -Original Message- From: Stephen Colebourne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 19:54 To: Jakarta General List Subject: Deciding on Java futures? How are we deciding on the Java Futures? Are we voting? Just talking? There are wide ranging views here, from add no more (JDK1.5 was bad enough) to add everything but the kitchen sink. The wiki has some simpler ideas which haven't been shouted down yet, like jar in jar and access to the Class from a static context. I also think we could leverage Jakarta Commons to get small useful methods added in a review and tidy up of the core libraries (which is desparately needed). Perhaps we could agree on these? Could I suggest on language features, that our best approach would be to ask Sun to allow us to discuss (in private if necessary) their proposed additions in the next few months. That way we can feedback early our experiences and maybe avoid adding unecessary or innappropriate 'features'. (Personally I am on the side of most of the JDK1.5 additions being poor choices that harm Java) Stephen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Deciding on Java futures?
What wiki, where? Thanx, Jack On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:08:36 -0400, Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First, the ideas can be discussed on the mailing list, but we should collect them on the Wiki. Second, we should try to prioritize them. Third, I have some feedback already on the good stuff posted, and have been asked if we I'm hoping that we'll get some direct feedback on the Wiki page from Sun. --- Noel -- You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep. ~Native Proverb~ Each man is good in His sight. It is not necessary for eagles to be crows. ~Hunkesni (Sitting Bull), Hunkpapa Sioux~ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
