RE: Jakarta stats
I guess I would fall in this category, too. I would still like to contribute at some point and have been following a few lists, but I haven't had the time to actively commit. Mike. -- Mike Braden -Original Message- From: Alex Chaffee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 4:16 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Jakarta stats I've got interest but not activity so... Emeritize me! (I enjoy lurking but haven't committed in 2 years. Haven't even checked to see if I have a svn account yet :-)) - Alex Chaffee ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) (from http://www.apache.org/foundation/glossary.html) Emeritus A term used to formally designate someone as no longer active, but still entitled to all of the rights and privileges of the position. For example, an ASF member who hasn't attended any membership meetings for a long time is declared emeritus; someone who no longer has time to work on a particular project may declare itself emeritus. Emeritus status indicates interest but not activity, as opposed to having resigned. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta stats
I guess I consider myself to be a category 3: 3) People who are committer, did do some serious work and vanished. The situation is simply that I am unable to work on Jakarta any further. HttpClient is very very active and I am pleased that development continues under the Apache umbrella. I'm not sure what, in this context, it means to be moved to 'emuritus'. I appreciate recognition of past work, but I don't feel my contributions warrant such a title. -jsd (Jeff Dever) On Jan 12, 2006, at 15:40, Vadim Gritsenko wrote: Martin van den Bemt wrote: The result can be a couple of things (probably depending on the response) : - Leave it as is - Move them to emuritus Above two are the only acceptable choices for folks with valid accounts. We can discuss means and mechanisms of moving to emeritus and back, but removing folks who fall into groups 2) to 5) is unacceptable - all IMHO. Vadim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta stats
Hi Jeff, Jeff Dever wrote: I guess I consider myself to be a category 3: 3) People who are committer, did do some serious work and vanished. Hmm I miss the part about vanishing, you clearly are monitoring lists ? The situation is simply that I am unable to work on Jakarta any further. HttpClient is very very active and I am pleased that development continues under the Apache umbrella. I'm not sure what, in this context, it means to be moved to 'emuritus'. I appreciate recognition of past work, but I don't feel my contributions warrant such a title. (from http://www.apache.org/foundation/glossary.html) Emeritus A term used to formally designate someone as no longer active, but still entitled to all of the rights and privileges of the position. For example, an ASF member who hasn't attended any membership meetings for a long time is declared emeritus; someone who no longer has time to work on a particular project may declare itself emeritus. Emeritus status indicates interest but not activity, as opposed to having resigned. You decide for yourself :) Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta stats
My spam filter which dumps nearly all [EMAIL PROTECTED] email, does keep messages with my name in them. Heh. I'd take vanished to mean became invisible, which is what I had become for some time before this thread started. Emeritus status in Apache context is quite encompassing, which would appear to an appropriate place for people in my position. -jsd On Jan 14, 2006, at 08:48, Martin van den Bemt wrote: Hi Jeff, Jeff Dever wrote: I guess I consider myself to be a category 3: 3) People who are committer, did do some serious work and vanished. Hmm I miss the part about vanishing, you clearly are monitoring lists ? The situation is simply that I am unable to work on Jakarta any further. HttpClient is very very active and I am pleased that development continues under the Apache umbrella. I'm not sure what, in this context, it means to be moved to 'emuritus'. I appreciate recognition of past work, but I don't feel my contributions warrant such a title. (from http://www.apache.org/foundation/glossary.html) Emeritus A term used to formally designate someone as no longer active, but still entitled to all of the rights and privileges of the position. For example, an ASF member who hasn't attended any membership meetings for a long time is declared emeritus; someone who no longer has time to work on a particular project may declare itself emeritus. Emeritus status indicates interest but not activity, as opposed to having resigned. You decide for yourself :) Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta stats
I've got interest but not activity so... Emeritize me! (I enjoy lurking but haven't committed in 2 years. Haven't even checked to see if I have a svn account yet :-)) - Alex Chaffee ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) (from http://www.apache.org/foundation/glossary.html) Emeritus A term used to formally designate someone as no longer active, but still entitled to all of the rights and privileges of the position. For example, an ASF member who hasn't attended any membership meetings for a long time is declared emeritus; someone who no longer has time to work on a particular project may declare itself emeritus. Emeritus status indicates interest but not activity, as opposed to having resigned.
RE: Jakarta stats
Noel, Happy new year, Inactive as a commiter, which I took to be the definition Henri used. As a member I can (and will) still actively monitor and interfere in Jakatra PMC business, and I lurk with occasional posts on a few project lists, I'm no shrinking violet and in theory I can get all the karma I want (mua-ha-ha) but in practice I don't have anything very tangible to contribute to Jakarta anymore and much less time in which to contribute it. What I wondered was whether or not my having a PMC seat as an emeritus commiter could be seen as in any way holding the project back. d. --- Danny Angus Lead Technical Consultant ICT Products Development 4W - Ext: 33257 Direct Dial: +44 (0) 141 243 3257 |-+ | | Noel J. Bergman| | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | | | || | | 12/01/2006 05:53 | | | PM | | | Please respond to| | | Jakarta General | | | List| |-+ -| | | | To: Jakarta General List general@jakarta.apache.org | | cc: | | Subject: RE: Jakarta stats | -| Danny Angus wrote: I'm one of the 1) Inactive PMC members Define inactive. Inactive as a committer? Inactive as a PMC member providing oversight to Jakarta projects? I'm in the former category, as are many, but I still actively monitor several project lists, even if I only post when I have something specific to contribute. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limit ed. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta stats
Martin wrote: The result can be a couple of things (probably depending on the response) : - Vote on them (?) I think the most straightforward thing is simply to announce that a vote will be held for which the rules are that more than a quorum of +1's and no -1's are required to remove a PMC member to emeritus status, with reinstatement being achieved by vote on application. In this way any less active (by which I don't mean older ;-) PMC member could assert their right to remain by voting -1and vetoing their removal, or confirm their agreement by voting +1. In theory any PMC member who is made emeritus against their will by this action has also demonstrated that they aren't paying enough attention. Jakarta has always been a meritocracy, often described as the more you do the more responsibility you will obtain IMHO to achieve balance and vitality at the top the converse should also be true, the less you do the more responsibility you wll lose. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limit ed. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta stats
Martin van den Bemt wrote: Vadim Gritsenko wrote: Martin van den Bemt wrote: The result can be a couple of things (probably depending on the response) : - Leave it as is - Move them to emuritus Above two are the only acceptable choices for folks with valid accounts. We can discuss means and mechanisms of moving to emeritus and back, but removing folks who fall into groups 2) to 5) is unacceptable - all IMHO. Removing can also be started on request of the committer... So the third option is acceptable. (it is happening as we speak btw : Jeff Dever, see infrastructure list). Well that's different - we should not hold anybody against their will :-) Vadim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta stats
I'm one of the 1) Inactive PMC members : 39 For historical reasons I made it onto this PMC just as the project I was really involved with (James) got promoted to TLP. I hung around to try to help make sure that Jakarta didn't die as a result of all the reorganisation, and wasn't killed off because we failed to provide adequate oversight while we carried out the controlled expansion of the PMC. On the one hand I think it may be time for me to move on, on the other hand I think that Jakarta PMC might benefit from the continuity provided by letting the interest of me and the others like me fade away as Jakarta continues to evolve. Whatever I think, I would happily relinquish my PMC vote if the active PMC members think it would help in any way. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limit ed. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta stats
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006, Danny Angus wrote: I'm one of the 1) Inactive PMC members : 39 For historical reasons I made it onto this PMC just as the project I was really involved with (James) got promoted to TLP. I hung around to try to help make sure that Jakarta didn't die as a result of all the reorganisation, and wasn't killed off because we failed to provide adequate oversight while we carried out the controlled expansion of the PMC. On the one hand I think it may be time for me to move on, on the other hand I think that Jakarta PMC might benefit from the continuity provided by letting the interest of me and the others like me fade away as Jakarta continues to evolve. Whatever I think, I would happily relinquish my PMC vote if the active PMC members think it would help in any way. Personally, I think that as long as we don't have to have any form of quorom, and as long as the inactive PMC member is on the mailing list (which really means they're not completely inactive), then it's not a problem. We do need quorom on one issue: The Chairman or any member may be removed from the PMC by a 3/4 vote of the PMC. Of course, we only have 60% active right now, so presuming only committers to the current Jakarta voted, that line of the charter would be impossible. Not a biggy I think, I think the chair can sidestep the charter if the community allowed it and removing the chair is more about the PMC sending a vote of no confidence to the board regardless of %, the board's interpretation of that vote would be subjective. ie) I doubt a chair could be removed for doing what the board said had to be done. 75% or no 75%. :) It's one of the places where Jakarta modelled itself on the ASF, but isn't the same as the ASF. -=-=-=-= Mostly I'm worried about: PMC members who are not on pmc@ (there's a handful) PMC members who are not on general@ (never looked. I will soon) Inactive committers who are not on the PMC (200+) Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta stats
On 1/12/06, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip/ -=-=-=-= Mostly I'm worried about: PMC members who are not on pmc@ (there's a handful) PMC members who are not on general@ (never looked. I will soon) Inactive committers who are not on the PMC (200+) snap/ s/Inactive/Active/ ? That made for an interesting read, thanks for posting the stats. -Rahul Hen snip/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta stats
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006, Rahul Akolkar wrote: On 1/12/06, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip/ -=-=-=-= Mostly I'm worried about: PMC members who are not on pmc@ (there's a handful) PMC members who are not on general@ (never looked. I will soon) Inactive committers who are not on the PMC (200+) snap/ s/Inactive/Active/ ? Well, I'm worried about Active committers who are not on the PMC you're right :) #1 issue. The above meant, those are the three sets I think need to be emeritus'd. The 200+ would be wrong then as it includes the smaller number of active committers who we need to get on the PMC. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta stats
On 1/12/06, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 12 Jan 2006, Danny Angus wrote: I'm one of the 1) Inactive PMC members : 39 For historical reasons I made it onto this PMC just as the project I was really involved with (James) got promoted to TLP. I hung around to try to help make sure that Jakarta didn't die as a result of all the reorganisation, and wasn't killed off because we failed to provide adequate oversight while we carried out the controlled expansion of the PMC. On the one hand I think it may be time for me to move on, on the other hand I think that Jakarta PMC might benefit from the continuity provided by letting the interest of me and the others like me fade away as Jakarta continues to evolve. Whatever I think, I would happily relinquish my PMC vote if the active PMC members think it would help in any way. Personally, I think that as long as we don't have to have any form of quorom, and as long as the inactive PMC member is on the mailing list (which really means they're not completely inactive), then it's not a problem. We do need quorom on one issue: The Chairman or any member may be removed from the PMC by a 3/4 vote of the PMC. Of course, we only have 60% active right now, so presuming only committers to the current Jakarta voted, that line of the charter would be impossible. What, you think we're going to let you off the hook as PMC Chair any time soon? Ha ha ha! ;-) -- Martin Cooper Not a biggy I think, I think the chair can sidestep the charter if the community allowed it and removing the chair is more about the PMC sending a vote of no confidence to the board regardless of %, the board's interpretation of that vote would be subjective. ie) I doubt a chair could be removed for doing what the board said had to be done. 75% or no 75%. :) It's one of the places where Jakarta modelled itself on the ASF, but isn't the same as the ASF. -=-=-=-= Mostly I'm worried about: PMC members who are not on pmc@ (there's a handful) PMC members who are not on general@ (never looked. I will soon) Inactive committers who are not on the PMC (200+) Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta stats
Danny Angus wrote: I'm one of the 1) Inactive PMC members Define inactive. Inactive as a committer? Inactive as a PMC member providing oversight to Jakarta projects? I'm in the former category, as are many, but I still actively monitor several project lists, even if I only post when I have something specific to contribute. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta stats
Noel J. Bergman wrote: Danny Angus wrote: I'm one of the 1) Inactive PMC members Define inactive. Inactive as a committer? Inactive as a PMC member providing oversight to Jakarta projects? I'm in the former category, as are many, but I still actively monitor several project lists, even if I only post when I have something specific to contribute. Maybe an order in which a cleanup can be persued : 1) People who are committer and don't have a CLA on file. In short : people with disabled accounts. (don't remember if there was a follow action on that to completely remove these users?) 1a) People who are just committer on projects that no longer exist (eg jakarta-alexandria) 2) People who are committer, did commit some files and then were never heard of again. 3) People who are committer, did do some serious work and vanished. 4) People who are on the PMC and aren't active committers and aren't active participants. 5) People who are on the PMC and their project moved to another PMC and aren't active participants. Activity doesn't mean just committing. For all points : skip members of the foundation. 1 is most likely the case for people who moved on to something else. With points 2 till 5 we could check if they are still on mailinglists and we could send them a polite mail (content varying, depending if on PMC or not) asking what their future plans are. The result can be a couple of things (probably depending on the response) : - Leave it as is - Move them to emuritus - Remove them. or - Vote on them (?) Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta stats
Martin van den Bemt wrote: The result can be a couple of things (probably depending on the response) : - Leave it as is - Move them to emuritus Above two are the only acceptable choices for folks with valid accounts. We can discuss means and mechanisms of moving to emeritus and back, but removing folks who fall into groups 2) to 5) is unacceptable - all IMHO. Vadim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta stats
Vadim Gritsenko wrote: Martin van den Bemt wrote: The result can be a couple of things (probably depending on the response) : - Leave it as is - Move them to emuritus Above two are the only acceptable choices for folks with valid accounts. We can discuss means and mechanisms of moving to emeritus and back, but removing folks who fall into groups 2) to 5) is unacceptable - all IMHO. Removing can also be started on request of the committer... So the third option is acceptable. (it is happening as we speak btw : Jeff Dever, see infrastructure list). Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jakarta stats
Robert got me looking at various Jakarta stats in a recent email of his. Gave me something to do while I waited for a plane at 5am this morning :) So, here's a dump of stats. A committer is defined as somebody with svn access. 316 committers in Jakarta. 107 on PMC, 209 not on PMC. 8349 commits in 2005 from 121 committers. (5768 from 90 committers in 2004, 30 of whom did not commit in 2005) 30 committers only have access to jakarta-pmc or jakarta-site. Quick report of # people committing to N subprojects; not including site/pmc and merging commons and commons-sandbox into one. People - Components 30 - 0 176- 1 74 - 2 18 - 3 12 - 4 3 - 5 2 - 6 1 - 9 So 30 people are not really committers, 176 only commit on one subproject etc. Bear in mind that you have to apply a filter of 2/3rds to see the active ones. So assuming a perfect balance, only 2 of the most spread 6 committers are actually active. Next up. Cross-community activity. Ignoring the 206 who do not cross a community, and the 6 who are all over the place (and probably doing infra things, project setp), the top ten combinations are: 32 - turbine jcs 9 - commons-sandbox turbine jcs 9 - commons taglibs 7 - commons slide 4 - commons turbine jcs velocity 3 - commons-sandbox taglibs 3 - commons httpcomponents 3 - commons turbine jcs 2 - commons tapestry turbine jcs 2 - bcel commons-sandbox Turbine/JCS is a misnomer, we copied the Turbine SVN over when setting JCS up. Commons makes up the rest. Ignoring Turbine/JCS, and ignoring Commons as a whole, what cross community is there committer wise. The entire list is: 5 - turbine jcs velocity 3 - hivemind tapestry 2 - turbine jcs taglibs 2 - poi slide 2 - tapestry turbine jcs 1 - slide velocity 1 - jmeter turbine jcs 1 - cactus slide 1 - cactus turbine jcs 1 - poi tapestry 1 - slide taglibs 1 - ecs oro regexp taglibs 1 - cactus taglibs 1 - bcel taglibs 1 - hivemind slide tapestry 1 - bsf poi regexp taglibs Some are obvious, some are because taglibs is commons-like in its community (I think), some are unexpected. The major reason for looking at this was to have scripts to point out how many committers are not on the pmc. 2/3rds of Jakarta. Of course, 2/3rds of Jakarta are inactive too. So back to the data. Comparing the active committers of 2005, against the PMC list, we get two interesting factoids: 1) Inactive PMC members : 39 2) Active non-PMC committers : 53 To finish it off: 3) Active PMC members: 68 === Next up I guess. Building svn logs for each project instead of Jakarta as a whole, so we can see where activity is, and whether we have oversight problems. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
