Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-25 Thread Peter Donald
On Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:29, Colin Chalmers wrote: It's good to know your enemy but lets not talk Java into it's grave. Just because MickySoft comes out with something to compete against Java people seem to be taking fright and already talking about ditching Java for C# thereby playing into

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-25 Thread Micael Padraig Og mac Grene
Let's see: Microsoft is going to be a better deal in terms of open code than Sun Microsystems? Hmmm? Guess I must have missed the banana boat on this one. I guess since I am fed up because Sun won't let me have free rein with their code, I should ballyhoo C#, which will be 100 times more

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-25 Thread Peter Donald
On Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:45, Micael Padraig Og mac Grene wrote: Let's see: Microsoft is going to be a better deal in terms of open code than Sun Microsystems? err ... you trolling ? guess so. I guess since I am fed up because Sun won't let me have free rein with their code, I should

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-25 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
Yes! Actually Apache is funded fully by Microsoft and its all been this big farce.. We'll be close sourcing everything and handing it back to Bill! Don't worry, Soon we'll have Microsoft leadership for the whole group! -Andy On Sun, 2002-02-24 at 16:45, Micael Padraig Og mac Grene wrote: Do

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-25 Thread Micael Padraig Og mac Grene
Thanx, Andy. There have been such rumours! ;-) At 08:02 AM 2/25/02 -0500, you wrote: Yes! Actually Apache is funded fully by Microsoft and its all been this big farce.. We'll be close sourcing everything and handing it back to Bill! Don't worry, Soon we'll have Microsoft leadership for the

Re: Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-25 Thread acoliver
Darn...and I was saving that one for April 1 :-) On Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:43:05 -0800 Micael Padraig Og mac Grene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote. Thanx, Andy. There have been such rumours! ;-) At 08:02 AM 2/25/02 -0500, you wrote: Yes! Actually Apache is funded fully by Microsoft and its all been this

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-25 Thread James Duncan Davidson
On 2/24/02 01:28, Stefano Mazzocchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But my fear is that .NET might be even worse in the long run :/ I admit that I have fear and loathing of the .NET moniker and all that Microsoft is associating it with. But as far as the CLI and the class libraries, well, quite

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-25 Thread James Duncan Davidson
On 2/24/02 13:45, Micael Padraig Og mac Grene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you really thing that C# is going to be a competitor to Java? That amazes me. Do you guys work for Microsoft? Troll. .:..:.:.:::.:::...:..:::.::.::...:::x180:james duncan davidson -- To unsubscribe,

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-24 Thread Stefano Mazzocchi
James Duncan Davidson wrote: On 2/5/02 08:24, Stefano Mazzocchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My position: give me a solid (possibly GPL-ed) CLI implementation, a Java2C# porting tool, a BSD-licensed library of .NET classes and java-cloning classes and I say let's kiss java good bye.

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-24 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
I keep telling you: http://www.digitalmars.com/d/ Get this guy to release it APL and then we can get up and go! :-) -Andy On Sun, 2002-02-24 at 04:28, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: James Duncan Davidson wrote: On 2/5/02 08:24, Stefano Mazzocchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My position:

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-24 Thread Craig R. McClanahan
On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: Gosh, I think I'll have to write my own programming platform one day to avoid all this. I thought you already did ... you mean I *cannot* write device drivers and run them on Cocoon? Rats ... :-) Craig -- To unsubscribe, e-mail:

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-24 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
You laugh... IT HAS BEEN PROPOSED!!! http://www.mail-archive.com/cocoon-dev@xml.apache.org/msg10094.html On Sun, 2002-02-24 at 15:20, Craig R. McClanahan wrote: On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: Gosh, I think I'll have to write my own programming platform one day to

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-24 Thread Micael Padraig Og mac Grene
Do you really thing that C# is going to be a competitor to Java? That amazes me. Do you guys work for Microsoft? At 10:28 AM 2/24/02 +0100, you wrote: James Duncan Davidson wrote: On 2/5/02 08:24, Stefano Mazzocchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My position: give me a solid (possibly

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-24 Thread Colin Chalmers
To build on what Micael said, It's good to know your enemy but lets not talk Java into it's grave. Just because MickySoft comes out with something to compete against Java people seem to be taking fright and already talking about ditching Java for C# thereby playing into Mickys hand. Has Micky

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-23 Thread James Duncan Davidson
On 2/5/02 08:24, Stefano Mazzocchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My position: give me a solid (possibly GPL-ed) CLI implementation, a Java2C# porting tool, a BSD-licensed library of .NET classes and java-cloning classes and I say let's kiss java good bye. Heh. You are ahead of schedule. I figured

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-06 Thread Santiago Gala
Andrew C. Oliver wrote: On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 11:24, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: Jon Scott Stevens wrote: on 2/4/02 1:58 PM, Kevin A. Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (snip) They dropped the ball for java on the desktop: sun management decided that it will never happen: there will be no Java

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-06 Thread Peter Donald
On Wed, 6 Feb 2002 11:41, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: *if* there was an open, semi-stable platform then I am sure a fair chunk of people would flock to it - especially if it is under a nice license like MIT that both the BSD and GPL people seem to like. BUT THERE WON'T BE! you

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-06 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
snip/ Become a strategist. There will always a need for people telling people what they should do next. At least for people that does not read these lists. ;) Where do I sign? :-) I'm always happy telling people what they should do next ;-). -Andy -- www.superlinksoftware.com

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Peter Donald
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:38, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Are you upset at the way Java is being handled by SUN? Do you feel lied to about the fact that SUN is still keeping Java proprietary even after they promised us for *years* that it would be standardized? Are you looking towards

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Arnaud Vandyck
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frankly Sun should learn from IBM model and start to sell services instead of just software. They already sell services :) -- Arnaud, STE-Formations Informatiques, fapse, ULg, .BE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands,

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Ted Husted
+1 Kevin A. Burton wrote: Heck no. .NET/c# why would I want to use an even more proprietary thing to get back at SUN? Heck no. ... hm.. this discussion could be on the list... buy anyway. -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Java Web Development with Struts. -- Tel +1

AW: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Juergen Fey
Hi, Java proves to be a reliable technology but some political questions are still open and some others - not all - are getting answered in the wrong direction. There could be a chance to discuss these things during the JavaOne next month. Perhaps at Jon`s new place which is not too far away

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 03:14, Peter Donald wrote: On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:38, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Are you upset at the way Java is being handled by SUN? Do you feel lied to about the fact that SUN is still keeping Java proprietary even after they promised us for *years* that it

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Sam Ruby
Andrew C. Oliver wrote: On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 03:14, Peter Donald wrote: On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:38, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Are you upset at the way Java is being handled by SUN? Do you feel lied to about the fact that SUN is still keeping Java proprietary even after they promised us for

Re: Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread acoliver
Peter is correct. A few links (you can see my name in the first one): http://www.ecma.ch/ecma1/MEMENTO/TC39-G3.HTM http://www.ecma.ch/ecma1/NEWS/NEWS.HTM http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2002/02/04/mono.html http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23919.html

Re: Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Sam Ruby
Andrew C Oliver wrote: A few links: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2002/02/04/mono.html http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23919.html http://www.ximian.com/devzone/projects/mono.html http://www.gnu.org/projects/dotgnu/ http://www.halcyonsoft.com/news/javadotnet.asp

Re: Re: Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread acoliver
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:48:28 -0500 Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote. Andrew C Oliver wrote: A few links: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2002/02/04/mono.html http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23919.html http://www.ximian.com/devzone/projects/mono.html

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Stefano Mazzocchi
Jon Scott Stevens wrote: on 2/4/02 1:58 PM, Kevin A. Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I created the java-is-dead mailing list to address these issues. Note that this mailing list is a place to help fix things. The java-is-dead mailing list is for people who love Java but are *very*

RE: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro
Hi Stefano, -Mensaje original- De: Stefano Mazzocchi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] [...] My position: give me a solid (possibly GPL-ed) CLI implementation, a Java2C# porting tool, a BSD-licensed library of .NET classes and java-cloning classes and I say let's kiss java good bye. And

RE: Re: Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Scott Sanders
Most of the Mono Ximian crowd is in Boston IIRC. Give them a shout. Scott -Original Message- From: acoliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 8:01 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved! On Tue, 5

RE: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Scott Sanders
Stefano, you are right on the mark as usual. As soon as a java2c# porting tool is available, the hordes will probably be moving on... -Original Message- From: Stefano Mazzocchi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 8:25 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject:

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread James Strachan
on 2/4/02 8:29 PM, Aaron Smuts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could someone explain the issue, especially with reference to JSR107 (JCACHE). Aaron Yes. I'm on JSR 107 and I seem to be the only really vocal person there about my needs. Brian Goetz cares as well, but isn't nearly as vocal.

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Jon Scott Stevens
on 2/5/02 10:55 AM, Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On the other hand the porting tool already exists. See http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualj/jump/. Yet the hordes still remain. - Sam Ruby My favorite quote: The Java Language Conversion Assistant has been developed independently by

RE: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Micael Padraig Og mac Grene
Sam, I always get a kick out of your droll submissions. Thanks for the quiet humor, which always includes informational content and never is too biting. Micael At 01:55 PM 2/5/02 -0500, you wrote: Scott Sanders wrote: Stefano, you are right on the mark as usual. As soon as a java2c#

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Peter Donald
On Wed, 6 Feb 2002 04:09, Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro wrote: Hi Stefano, -Mensaje original- De: Stefano Mazzocchi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] [...] My position: give me a solid (possibly GPL-ed) CLI implementation, a Java2C# porting tool, a BSD-licensed library of .NET

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Peter Donald
On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:41, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 03:14, Peter Donald wrote: On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:38, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Are you upset at the way Java is being handled by SUN? Do you feel lied to about the fact that SUN is still keeping Java

RE: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Sam Ruby
Micael Padraig Og mac Grene wrote: Sam, I always get a kick out of your droll submissions. Thanks for the quiet humor, which always includes informational content and never is too biting. Micael If you liked that, you might also like http://radio.weblogs.com/0101679/2002/02/02.html#a61 .

RE: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Jeff Schnitzer
From: Scott Sanders [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Stefano, you are right on the mark as usual. As soon as a java2c# porting tool is available, the hordes will probably be moving on... Actually, forget a porting tool. I want an open-source version of something like this:

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Kevin A. Burton
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Stefano Mazzocchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jon Scott Stevens wrote: on 2/4/02 1:58 PM, Kevin A. Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I created the java-is-dead mailing list to address these issues. Note that this mailing list is a

Re: AW: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Kevin A. Burton
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Juergen Fey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, Java proves to be a reliable technology but some political questions are still open and some others - not all - are getting answered in the wrong direction. There could be a chance to discuss these

RE: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread GOMEZ Henri
From: Stefano Mazzocchi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] In case you didn't notice, Sun might go out of business as soon as a couple of years: if even Oracle says that bigiron is dead, Google and yahoo run on huge though inexpensive clusters of pc clones, Dual G4 machines are starting to beat the

RE: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Ignacio J. Ortega
De: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Enviado el: martes 5 de febrero de 2002 15:09 For those who don't know me and might perceive this as an endorsement, I have worn Microsoft shirts to JavaOne (just ask Pat Sueltz), and NetScape shirts to the Microsoft PDC (just ask Dick Hardt or the MS VP

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Stefano Mazzocchi
Kevin A. Burton wrote: Dont't sit back and do nothing. Sending emails to this list is just a waste of your time. Try to imagine what makes Sun officials worry more: - the guy who pushed java technology in the ASF since '97 and was so efficient with his java-lover friends that the ASF has

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 11:24, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: Jon Scott Stevens wrote: on 2/4/02 1:58 PM, Kevin A. Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I created the java-is-dead mailing list to address these issues. Note that this mailing list is a place to help fix things. The

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 14:47, Peter Donald wrote: On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:41, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 03:14, Peter Donald wrote: On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:38, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Are you upset at the way Java is being handled by SUN? Do you feel lied to

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Kevin A. Burton
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Stefano Mazzocchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kevin A. Burton wrote: Dont't sit back and do nothing. Sending emails to this list is just a waste of your time. Try to imagine what makes Sun officials worry more: - the guy who pushed java

RE: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-05 Thread Aaron Smuts
Jerry Bortvedt jerry.bortvedt@oTo: [NAME OMITTED], racle.com cc: Subject: Re: OCS4J availability 06/28/2001 02:37 PM

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-04 Thread hgo
The only people who can fix these things is Sun. This mailing list sounds like a black hole and these types of politics usually don't work against Sun (neither do online polls)... The way to get Sun's attention is to corner them into a hole and then pound on their head for a few years.

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-04 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
On Mon, 2002-02-04 at 16:58, Kevin A. Burton wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sorry for the X-post. Then don't do it. I just created a new mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can sign up here: http://entropy.yi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/java-is-dead

Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-04 Thread Kevin A. Burton
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sorry for the X-post. I just created a new mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can sign up here: http://entropy.yi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/java-is-dead ... Are you upset at the way Java is being handled by SUN? Do you feel lied to

Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-04 Thread Kevin A. Burton
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: on 2/4/02 1:58 PM, Kevin A. Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I created the java-is-dead mailing list to address these issues. Note that this mailing list is a place to help fix things. The

RE: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-04 Thread Aaron Smuts
Could someone explain the issue, especially with reference to JSR107 (JCACHE). Aaron -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Kevin A. Burton Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 9:48 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Java is dead... but

RE: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!

2002-02-04 Thread Aaron Smuts
-Original Message- From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 12:29 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved! on 2/4/02 8:29 PM, Aaron Smuts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could someone explain the