RE: Jakarta - A study in self defeating projects
Hi, >simple out of box ). As a solution - I started on an Ant task >that would just create the rpm file from the distribution files, without >using a .spec and all the special steps ( just like the windows >installer does ). That sounds like a good approach. If you or someone else would do this after I post the other distros for a given release, we'd be all set. You wouldn't have to do it on a Windows computer etc. Yoav This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta - A study in self defeating projects
Shapira, Yoav wrote: Hi, The folks at JPackage.org already track several Jakarta projects and issue RPMs for them: for example, they've been doing this with Tomcat for a long time. We appreciate their work. We've spoken on the tomcat-dev list about issuing our own RPMs, and I think it was Costin (Manolache) who was very interested and knowledgable in this area, so he might be a good person to ask if you're interested in more Jakarta/RPM work. I'm just very unhappy with the current status and how linux distributors are packaging java projects ( tomcat in particular ). The problem is that each distributor ( RedHat/Fedora in particular ) are using a layout different from each other, making it harder to support. On top of this - Fedora is using native compilation, a great technology but not very stable yet. On tomcat - the conclusion was that we could distribute our own rpms, if we can make it easy to build them and integrate this in the normal build ( and a special requirement - have this working on windows too ). I didn't have time to implement this yet. One problem with RPM is that it is both a packaging/install tool ( like InstallShield or tar.gz ) but it is also at the same time a build tool, like make or ant. And you need special setup to build RPMs using the rpm spec on Windows, Mac or Debian computers (it is possible, but not very simple out of box ). As a solution - I started on an Ant task that would just create the rpm file from the distribution files, without using a .spec and all the special steps ( just like the windows installer does ). JPackage.org is a great source for java packages - and at least they are self-consistent and work on any linux (RPM-based) distribution. But just like the other distributors, their layout is different from the official distribution layout. While I don't like linux distributors and the fragmentation they create, I think it's also our fault for not distributing "official" RPM files, to keep the products consistent both across various linux distros but also across platforms. Costin I know the above is off-topic for this thread, but since the thread is dying anyways (the OP was a classic "I'll send a clueless rant and disappear" type), and this is relevant (and of increasing concern as various linux flavors gain popularity not just in our community, but on our users' desktops). Yoav -Original Message- From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 10:42 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: RE: Jakarta - A study in self defeating projects Henri Gomez wrote: If some people found hard to install and glue jakarta software (not products) together they should consider JPackage.org ready to use RPMS. This Linux project make a cross distribution coherent Java distribution, which is now used by Mandrake, Suse and Redhat. If you can think of some way of validating the contents of the RPMs (e.g., if they were part of the release testing process and signed by an ASF release manager), maybe we could do something with jpackage.org. Or add the RPMs to our dist/ tree. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta - A study in self defeating projects
Hi, The folks at JPackage.org already track several Jakarta projects and issue RPMs for them: for example, they've been doing this with Tomcat for a long time. We appreciate their work. We've spoken on the tomcat-dev list about issuing our own RPMs, and I think it was Costin (Manolache) who was very interested and knowledgable in this area, so he might be a good person to ask if you're interested in more Jakarta/RPM work. I know the above is off-topic for this thread, but since the thread is dying anyways (the OP was a classic "I'll send a clueless rant and disappear" type), and this is relevant (and of increasing concern as various linux flavors gain popularity not just in our community, but on our users' desktops). Yoav >-Original Message- >From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 10:42 AM >To: Jakarta General List >Subject: RE: Jakarta - A study in self defeating projects > >Henri Gomez wrote: >> If some people found hard to install and glue jakarta software (not >> products) together they should consider JPackage.org ready to use >> RPMS. This Linux project make a cross distribution coherent Java >> distribution, which is now used by Mandrake, Suse and Redhat. > >If you can think of some way of validating the contents of the RPMs (e.g., >if they were part of the release testing process and signed by an ASF >release manager), maybe we could do something with jpackage.org. Or add >the >RPMs to our dist/ tree. > > --- Noel > > >- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you.
RE: Jakarta - A study in self defeating projects
Henri Gomez wrote: > If some people found hard to install and glue jakarta software (not > products) together they should consider JPackage.org ready to use > RPMS. This Linux project make a cross distribution coherent Java > distribution, which is now used by Mandrake, Suse and Redhat. If you can think of some way of validating the contents of the RPMs (e.g., if they were part of the release testing process and signed by an ASF release manager), maybe we could do something with jpackage.org. Or add the RPMs to our dist/ tree. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta - A study in self defeating projects
If some people found hard to install and glue jakarta software (not products) together they should consider JPackage.org ready to use RPMS. This Linux project make a cross distribution coherent Java distribution, which is now used by Mandrake, Suse and Redhat. Regards On Fri, 8 Oct 2004 17:56:38 -0400, Noel J. Bergman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Christian Anton wrote: > > > Is there a harder more terribly-documented install procedure > > for any other product?? > > Jakarta isn't a product. > > > Why is Jakarta is comprised of a dozen or so strange components > > at varying stages of development and interoperability and > > documentation?? > > Because that is exactly what Jakarta is --- Jakarta is a community of > historic origin that oversees many projects written in Java. > > > Why not install one single package when you can install, edit, > > install, edit, install, copy, install, edit... > > When you go to the grocery store, do you expect to be provided with one > single set of cooking instructions for the frozen goods section? > > > I wanted to install OpenNMS, which requires Jakarta > > > I've spent the last couple hours trying to figure out how to install > jakarta. > > When I read the installation documentation for OpenNMS, I see that it tells > you that you need Tomcat, provides a direct link to that project, and tells > you that it is PART OF [emphasis mine] the Jakarta Project of the Apache > Software Foundation. > > ref: > https://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=23937&group_id=4141#d0e > 211 > > If one were to RTFM, one would reach > http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/index.html, which has links to the Tomcat > binary downloads, manuals, etc. > > --- Noel > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta - A study in self defeating projects
Christian Anton wrote: > Is there a harder more terribly-documented install procedure > for any other product?? Jakarta isn't a product. > Why is Jakarta is comprised of a dozen or so strange components > at varying stages of development and interoperability and > documentation?? Because that is exactly what Jakarta is --- Jakarta is a community of historic origin that oversees many projects written in Java. > Why not install one single package when you can install, edit, > install, edit, install, copy, install, edit... When you go to the grocery store, do you expect to be provided with one single set of cooking instructions for the frozen goods section? > I wanted to install OpenNMS, which requires Jakarta > I've spent the last couple hours trying to figure out how to install jakarta. When I read the installation documentation for OpenNMS, I see that it tells you that you need Tomcat, provides a direct link to that project, and tells you that it is PART OF [emphasis mine] the Jakarta Project of the Apache Software Foundation. ref: https://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=23937&group_id=4141#d0e 211 If one were to RTFM, one would reach http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/index.html, which has links to the Tomcat binary downloads, manuals, etc. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta - A study in self defeating projects
I think the only answer that is needed for this email is to ask how you found it when you installed the SourceForge product? Jakarta is not a product. It is a community. Hen On Fri, 8 Oct 2004, Christian Anton wrote: OMFG!!! YOUR DOCUMENTATION SUCKS ASS IN HELL! Is there a harder more terribly-documented install procedure for any other product?? Why is Jakarta is comprised of a dozen or so strange components at varying stages of development and interoperability and documentation?? Why not install one single package when you can install, edit, install, edit, install, copy, install, edit... Is this project TRYING to make FLOSS look like a jumble of collated mess? I wanted to install OpenNMS, which requires Jakarta, which requires a WORLD of patience and determination to deduce. I've spent the last couple hours trying to figure out how to install jakarta. Man, on days like this even MS products look so good. F**K jakarta and now because of that F**K OpenNMS - might have been EXACTLY what I needed, but at this point F**K IT!! Good job jakarta developers, way to promote the shitty side of FLOSS projects. Cheers, Christian Anton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 8.0.2 iQA/AwUBQWb9w4f+DdoVO7scEQIu3ACfW/lcSpJlMffFkMEEJgQGvcHkyMQAnRMy 7gZIuvVoafjuYwrRRnLjttaa =fJMD -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
