Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
Everything is back on the private list again. Odd to discuss including
more people in the PMC while excluding them from the discussion.
It is inappropriate and inconsiderate to discuss individual people on the
public list.
--- Noel
On Jan 3, 2004, at 9:53 AM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
Everything is back on the private list again. Odd to discuss
including more
people in the PMC while excluding them from the discussion.
Oh, quit it.
Discussing individual people should be done in private to let people
speak freely and avoid
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 12:23:28 -0500
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Everything is back on the private list again. Odd to discuss including
more people in the PMC while excluding them from the discussion.
It is inappropriate and inconsiderate to discuss individual people on the
public list.
Agreed. We
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 12:23:28 -0500
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Everything is back on the private list again. Odd to discuss including
more people in the PMC while excluding them from the discussion.
It is inappropriate and inconsiderate to
No, that is not correct. The point of having most committers
on the PMC is not to keep discussions out of google. The
point of getting them on the PMC is so that the ASF can
legally protect them, and so that they are legally empowered
to participate in the decisions that govern the
BIG SNIP
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
... sensitive things should be on the PMC
list, and non-sensitive things should be on the general@ list.
/end Geir
What could be something that is sensteive in an open source community?
This is new direction. Gray areas should be well exposed. If you are
On Dec 22, 2003, at 7:27 AM, Vic Cekvenich wrote:
BIG SNIP
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
... sensitive things should be on the PMC
list, and non-sensitive things should be on the general@ list.
/end Geir
What could be something that is sensteive in an open source community?
This is new direction.
On Dec 22, 2003, at 8:05 AM, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 07:38:54 -0500
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
What could be something that is sensteive in an open source
community?
This is new direction. Gray areas should be well exposed. If you are
ashamed of it, don't do open source
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:04:26 -0500
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious
On Dec 21, 2003, at 5:03 PM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
You go discus
General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:11:02 -0800
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious
On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 09:58:53AM -0500, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
Do you feel that we'll still be an open source organization in more than
General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 22 Dec 2003 01:53:20 +0100
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious
Sorry to hear you didn't understand my mail at all
If that is the way a PMC member communicates, I can never be part of
that PMC.
Mvgr,
Martin
Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 07:35:45 -0500
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious
On Dec 21, 2003, at 3:51 AM, Santiago Gala wrote:
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]
Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious
On Dec 22, 2003, at 7:27 AM, Vic Cekvenich wrote:
BIG SNIP
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
... sensitive things should be on the PMC
list, and non-sensitive things should be on the general@ list.
/end Geir
What could be something
Andy wrote:
FYI, except where I feel the situation absolutely mandates it, I will be
voting/discussing here.
snip
I choose to
work in the open. I choose to be googled. I volunteered for it in fact.
Well said, I agree with this.
But why be so confrontational about it? After all in the
Dec 2003 01:53:20 +0100
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious
Sorry to hear you didn't understand my mail at all
If that is the way a PMC member communicates, I can never be part of
that PMC.
Mvgr,
Martin
On Sun, 2003-12-21 at 23:10, Andrew C. Oliver
PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious
On Dec 22, 2003, at 7:27 AM, Vic Cekvenich wrote:
BIG SNIP
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
... sensitive things should be on the PMC
list, and non-sensitive things should be on the general@ list.
/end Geir
What could be something
: Re: Just in case you're curious
On Dec 21, 2003, at 3:51 AM, Santiago Gala wrote:
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El domingo, 21 dici, 2003, a las 02:35 Europe/Madrid, Henri Yandell
escribió:
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003, Santiago Gala wrote:
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Hash: SHA1
El
. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 07:38:54 -0500
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious
On Dec 22, 2003, at 7:27 AM, Vic Cekvenich wrote:
BIG SNIP
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
... sensitive things
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:12:02 -0500
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
Here in Jakarta (as well as other projects, I assume), the sub-projects
do committer votes in public. Some people outside of Jakarta feel that
this is improper, and should be done in private to ensure that open
discussion can
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
Here in Jakarta (as well as other projects, I assume), the sub-projects
do committer votes in public. Some people outside of Jakarta feel that
this is improper, and should be done in private to ensure that open
discussion can happen in a
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:10:27 +
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I realize that arguing with you on this will have no effect, but I want
to keep working to extinguish the meme you keep trying to plant.
+1, Andrew seems to have boundless energy in this regard ;-) !
It seems that he/she/it is a
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
Here in Jakarta (as well as other projects, I assume), the sub-projects
do committer votes in public. Some people outside of Jakarta feel that
this is improper, and should be done in private to ensure that open
Larry,
I'm surprised that no one answered this (at least that I saw). From
what I understand, ASF believes that those on PMC have liability
protection from the ASF because the PMC members are acting on behalf of
the organization. Further is it seems that the ASF does not believe
this
On Dec 22, 2003, at 6:23 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:
Larry,
I'm surprised that no one answered this (at least that I saw). From
what I understand, ASF believes that those on PMC have liability
protection from the ASF because the PMC members are acting on behalf
of the organization. Further is
On Dec 22, 2003, at 5:58 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
On Dec 22, 2003, at 6:23 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:
Larry,
I'm surprised that no one answered this (at least that I saw). From
what I understand, ASF believes that those on PMC have liability
protection from the ASF because the PMC
On Dec 22, 2003, at 7:07 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:
On Dec 22, 2003, at 5:58 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
On Dec 22, 2003, at 6:23 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:
Larry,
I'm surprised that no one answered this (at least that I saw). From
what I understand, ASF believes that those on PMC have
On Dec 22, 2003, at 6:13 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
On Dec 22, 2003, at 7:07 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:
On Dec 22, 2003, at 5:58 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
On Dec 22, 2003, at 6:23 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:
Larry,
I'm surprised that no one answered this (at least that I saw).
From what
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:04:26 -0500
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious
On Dec 21, 2003, at 5:03 PM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote
Dain Sundstrom wrote:
Larry,
I'm surprised that no one answered this (at least that I saw). From
what I understand, ASF believes that those on PMC have liability
protection from the ASF because the PMC members are acting on behalf
of the organization. Further is it seems that the ASF does
Lawrence E. Rosen asked:
Would someone please explain what protection committers expect from ASF?
And what legal empowerment is being granted?
I doubt that very many people can answer that question with any authority at
all. Certainly not me. The most that I can do for you is provide a
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Organization: The Apache Software Foundation, Committer
Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 07:16:44 +0900
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:10:27 +
[EMAIL
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El domingo, 21 dici, 2003, a las 02:35 Europe/Madrid, Henri Yandell
escribió:
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003, Santiago Gala wrote:
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El jueves, 18 dici, 2003, a las 15:52 Europe/Madrid, Henri Yandell
escribió:
You go discus your private matters wherever you like, I'd like to talk about
open source projects and am quite willing to do so in the open.
What that we've discussed so far has been SSSooo sensitive? The recipe
to the secret Jakarta Eggnog? I thought Jon took that with him... I think
it
Sorry to hear you didn't understand my mail at all
If that is the way a PMC member communicates, I can never be part of
that PMC.
Mvgr,
Martin
On Sun, 2003-12-21 at 23:10, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
Now the conversation is here, that is the solution. You're welcome.
-Andy
On Dec 21, 2003, at 5:03 PM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
You go discus your private matters wherever you like, I'd like to talk
about
open source projects and am quite willing to do so in the open.
And you know there's a difference. :)
What that we've discussed so far has been SSSooo
On Sat, Dec 20, 2003 at 07:17:57AM -0500, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
That's the point of getting as many people as are seriously interested
in the subject on the PMC. Then all can participate, and if we discuss
something sensitive (as defined by the discusser), it doesn't all have
to be on
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El jueves, 18 dici, 2003, a las 15:52 Europe/Madrid, Henri Yandell
escribió:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/whoweare.html lists the PMC members up
until the previous addition of 20 or so. That list has to go to the
board
etc and I plan to add them
On Dec 19, 2003, at 12:56 AM, Rainer Klute wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:23:16 -0500 Harish Krishnaswamy
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
For the record I'm in favour of transacting business HERE.
But I would like to respond by saying that as I understand it it is
the
source and the development of it
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003, Santiago Gala wrote:
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El jueves, 18 dici, 2003, a las 15:52 Europe/Madrid, Henri Yandell
escribió:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/whoweare.html lists the PMC members up
until the previous addition of 20 or so. That
Andrew,
The big difference between Geir and you, is that Geir is actually trying to give
feedback and explain the situation on what's going on.
The only messages I keep reading from you are protests against private lists and that
they should be public and for the rest nothing at all
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:23:16 -0500 Harish Krishnaswamy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
For the record I'm in favour of transacting business HERE.
But I would like to respond by saying that as I understand it it is the
source and the development of it which is open, not the organisation.
As a
On Dec 17, 2003, at 10:19 PM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
The reason everything is quiet here is all decisions are being made on
private lists now.
| Don't feed |
| the trolls |
|
|
|
--\|/
--
Andrew C. Oliver
On Dec 17, 2003, at 11:01 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
As a slight aside, getting on the PMC list just means nudging an
existing
member and pointing out that you are an active committer to Jakarta.
Yep. Do that. Every committer should want to be part of the PMC.
geir
--
Geir Magnusson Jr
At 04:19 AM 12/18/2003, you wrote:
The reason everything is quiet here is all decisions are being made on
private lists now.
Well at least it's honest. But it makes me wonder about the long term
effect of a private decision process in an open source group. It seems to
have almost destroyed the
The reason everything is quiet here is all decisions are being made on
private lists now.
Well at least it's honest. But it makes me wonder about the long term
effect of a private decision process in an open source group. It seems to
have almost destroyed the XFree86 project recently.
Henri Yandell wrote:
As a slight aside, getting on the PMC list just means nudging an existing
member and pointing out that you are an active committer to Jakarta.
Who's the best person to nudge then? :)
--
Andy Armstrong, Tagish
On Dec 18, 2003, at 9:30 AM, Andy Armstrong wrote:
Henri Yandell wrote:
As a slight aside, getting on the PMC list just means nudging an
existing
member and pointing out that you are an active committer to Jakarta.
Who's the best person to nudge then? :)
Anyone. Interested?
--
Andy Armstrong,
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
On Dec 18, 2003, at 9:30 AM, Andy Armstrong wrote:
Henri Yandell wrote:
As a slight aside, getting on the PMC list just means nudging an
existing
member and pointing out that you are an active committer to Jakarta.
Who's the best
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
Who's the best person to nudge then? :)
Anyone. Interested?
Yes, very much thanks.
--
Andy Armstrong, Tagish
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To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious
subjects have been:
how the PMC should work
organising a vote or something for a new pmc chair [5 or 6 people nominated so
far]
how to ensure oversight of jakarta
general ramblings about jakarta futures
For the record I'm in favour of transacting business HERE.
But I would like to respond by saying that as I understand it it is the
source and the development of it which is open, not the organisation.
As a committer I would like to know what's going on with the origanization. I can understand
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Danny Angus wrote:
Do you feel that we'll still be an open source organization in more than
name if all decisions end up being made on private PMC lists not open to
the
public?
For the record I'm in favour of transacting business HERE.
But I would like to respond
As a committer I would like to know what's going on with the
origanization. I can understand certain
private conversations that involve legal implications, but anything else,
I think, should be out in
the open to do justice to the committers. It seems like there is some
talk going on about
On Dec 18, 2003, at 9:58 AM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
As a slight aside, getting on the PMC list just means nudging an
existing
member and pointing out that you are an active committer to Jakarta.
Do you feel that we'll still be an open source organization in more
than
name if all decisions end
First off, as a commiter your entitled to be proposed for membership of the
PMC, which I'd be happy to do.
Thanks for the offer but I don't know if I would qualify for one. The description on the website is
pretty broad.
Secondly there has been a long drawn out debate in numerous places
On Dec 18, 2003, at 9:52 AM, Joe Germuska wrote:
Anyone. Interested?
I'm interested in being on the PMC mailing list; I just became a
Struts committer. My apache ID is germuska.
Joe,
I took the liberty of cc-ing the general Jakarta list.
Congrats on becoming a committer. I hope that your
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:23:25 -0500 (EST)
Henri Yandell wrote:
Agreed. Andy's highlighted the issue and I'm sure there'll be more
aggressiveness on pushing threads that don't need to remain closed to this
open forum.
About the issue of openness and closeness:
board@ is *public* for all the
This is FUD. No decisions are being made in private.
Isn't everything you disagree with?
I think the best way to describe what is going on in private is that we
are trying to get things organized enough to have a public discussion
of the things that are concerning us.
Which is IMHO,
On Dec 18, 2003, at 11:28 AM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
This is FUD. No decisions are being made in private.
Isn't everything you disagree with?
You are making assertions that aren't correct to cast doubt on
something. That's commonly known as FUD.
I think the best way to describe what is
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
On Dec 18, 2003, at 9:30 AM, Andy Armstrong wrote:
Henri Yandell wrote:
As a slight aside, getting on the PMC list just means nudging an
existing
member and pointing out that you are an active committer to Jakarta.
Who's the best person to nudge then? :)
Anyone.
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Dirk Verbeeck wrote:
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
On Dec 18, 2003, at 9:30 AM, Andy Armstrong wrote:
Henri Yandell wrote:
As a slight aside, getting on the PMC list just means nudging an
existing
member and pointing out that you are an active committer to
-Original Message-
From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
As a slight aside, getting on the PMC list just means nudging an existing
member and pointing out that you are an active committer to Jakarta.
Do you feel that we'll still be an open source organization in more
This is FUD. No decisions are being made in private.
Isn't everything you disagree with?
You are making assertions that aren't correct to cast doubt on
something. That's commonly known as FUD.
I'm sorry, I hallucinated that we were having all of these discussions about
the future
On Dec 18, 2003, at 8:02 PM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
This is FUD. No decisions are being made in private.
Isn't everything you disagree with?
You are making assertions that aren't correct to cast doubt on
something. That's commonly known as FUD.
I'm sorry, I hallucinated that we were having
I'm sorry, I hallucinated that we were having all of these discussions
about
the future of jakarta and how to best reorganize it on
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Remember what you said. You said that decisions were being made in
private.
Oh yes, I hallucinated the [VOTE] threads too. Damn those
On Dec 18, 2003, at 5:39 PM, Dirk Verbeeck wrote:
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
On Dec 18, 2003, at 9:30 AM, Andy Armstrong wrote:
Henri Yandell wrote:
As a slight aside, getting on the PMC list just means nudging an
existing
member and pointing out that you are an active committer to Jakarta.
subjects have been:
how the PMC should work
organising a vote or something for a new pmc chair [5 or 6 people nominated so far]
how to ensure oversight of jakarta
general ramblings about jakarta futures in terms of TLPs and whether
social pressure should ever be applied to move a project to
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:19:41 -0500
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
The reason everything is quiet here is all decisions are being made on
private lists now.
It would be okay unless all the decisions will have been made
on infrastructure@ list.
... ;-)
-- Tetsuya. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
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