RE: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make thedecision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

2002-05-02 Thread Steven Noels
Jon wrote: I can agree with that. Hell, the dvsl vs. xsl is a showstopper for me. I can't stand XSL... I'm also a little worried about the size/vocality of the centipede developer community. Krysalis lists (in the archive) total 53 posts. Maven dev (includes cvs) has 780, and the user

Re: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make thedecision(was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

2002-05-02 Thread Jon Scott Stevens
on 5/1/02 11:58 PM, Steven Noels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which basically boils down to let's just invent our own little language and try to get enough people bragging about it It isn't a little language... It is Velocity templates using a well known/used API (DOM4J). Come on, this isn't

RE: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make thedecision(was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

2002-05-02 Thread Steven Noels
Jon wrote: Wasn't this entire thing about community building? So what do we really want: using technology we invented on our own, alienating possible new users, or sticking to common standards? Using technology that is well supported, developed by a community of people who are not

Re: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You makethedecision(was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

2002-05-02 Thread Jon Scott Stevens
on 5/2/02 12:22 AM, Steven Noels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My point is that projects are being attacked here *solely* because they prefer XSLT instead of DVSL. Where the heck did you see someone being 'attacked'? Geez. People. You need to quit reading into someone saying THEY don't like XSLT

RE: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You makethedecision(was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

2002-05-02 Thread Steven Noels
Jon wrote: on 5/2/02 12:22 AM, Steven Noels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My point is that projects are being attacked here *solely* because they prefer XSLT instead of DVSL. Where the heck did you see someone being 'attacked'? Geez. People. You need to quit reading into someone saying

Re: jakarta subproject scope (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!)

2002-05-02 Thread Stefan Bodewig
On 30 Apr 2002, John McNally [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I would not be bothered if tomcat had developed a build system that it packaged as an independent entity with the idea that it might be more generally useful. It once had, it was called Ant. 8-) Stefan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail:

Re: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make the decision(was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

2002-05-02 Thread Leo Simons
Centaven Reasoning: I don't see how we can easily do this. The approaches are wildly different at basic levels, e.g. dvsl vs xsl, entities vs external build files for ant, extending GUMPs descriptor vs generating one etc. I can agree with that. Hell, the dvsl vs. xsl is a showstopper

Re: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make the decision(was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

2002-05-02 Thread Leo Simons
+1 I'm not a big fan of me-too posts, but this is one, bigtime. Apache as a whole and I think all of the subprojects individually have a real need for something like this. - Leo On Thu, 2002-05-02 at 00:15, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 I would go even further and propose a top level project

RE: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make the decision(was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

2002-05-02 Thread Steven Noels
Leo wrote: However, the implicit argument home-brewn solutions are worse than standards simply doesn't always hold true. It doesn't here. Both XSLT and DVSL are here at Apache, which, for me, is enough of a standard. Basically, all this is to point out masquerading of egotism as technical

Re: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make the decision(was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

2002-05-02 Thread Berin Loritsch
Jon Scott Stevens wrote: on 5/2/02 2:54 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Centaven Reasoning: I don't see how we can easily do this. The approaches are wildly different at basic levels, e.g. dvsl vs xsl, entities vs external build files for ant, extending GUMPs descriptor vs

Re: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make thedecision(was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

2002-05-02 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
Jon Scott Stevens wrote: on 5/1/02 11:58 PM, Steven Noels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which basically boils down to let's just invent our own little language and try to get enough people bragging about it It isn't a little language... It is Velocity templates using a well known/used API (DOM4J).

Re: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make thedecision(was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

2002-05-02 Thread Berin Loritsch
Jon Scott Stevens wrote: on 5/1/02 11:58 PM, Steven Noels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which basically boils down to let's just invent our own little language and try to get enough people bragging about it It isn't a little language... It is Velocity templates using a well known/used API

Re: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make the decision(was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

2002-05-02 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
Guys, Bottom line (you could probably guess these but it needs to be said): 1. I'll -1 the attempt to switch any project to maven that I have a vote on unless there is a concerted effort to collaborate on a combined effort with centipede. 2. I'll -1 anything that REQUIRES me to use DVSL if I

Re: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

2002-05-02 Thread Morgan Delagrange
General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 8:51 AM Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!)) Guys, Bottom line (you could probably guess these but it needs to be said): 1. I'll -1 the attempt

Re: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make the decision(was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

2002-05-02 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
to go by my first name. -Andy - Morgan - Original Message - From: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 8:51 AM Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your

Re: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make the decision(was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

2002-05-02 Thread costinm
On Thu, 2 May 2002, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: 1. I'll -1 the attempt to switch any project to maven that I have a vote on unless there is a concerted effort to collaborate on a combined effort with centipede. Same here, I'll -1 a switch to either maven or centipede on the projects I have a

Re: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

2002-05-02 Thread Nicola Ken Barozzi
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, 2 May 2002, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: 1. I'll -1 the attempt to switch any project to maven that I have a vote on unless there is a concerted effort to collaborate on a combined effort with centipede. Same here, I'll -1 a switch to either maven or

Re: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make the decision(was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

2002-05-02 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
Seems like overkill to stop a project based on the stylesheet technology, but it's your choice to make. Its not ONLY the tag language. And its the refusal to collaborate that really irks me. Furthermore, there model of seperation of centipede looks nicer. I'd like to see the two ideas

Re: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make the decision(was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

2002-05-02 Thread Glenn A. McAllister
On 2 May 2002, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Okay now I'm really done with the conversation If only you were... Glenn McAllister SOMA Networks, Inc. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-05-01 Thread dion
[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] com cc: Subject: Re: Quick! convert all your

Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-05-01 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
List [EMAIL PROTECTED] com cc: Subject: Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven! 05/01/02 10:50

Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-05-01 Thread James Taylor
Yeah, I love wading through GUMP's mess of ant build files, transformed xml, generated perl and shell scripts and such, all of which is barely documented at BEST. Especially when otherwise I'd have to spend that time on things that actually make my project better... Perhaps that's why (from a

Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-05-01 Thread Sam Ruby
Berin Loritsch wrote: echo maven.home=${user.home}/maven ~/build.properties That's an extra step that we don't need. See if you can build without it. The real key is that I want to specify the version of various common components that I want to use. For more details, see

Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-05-01 Thread dion
Dude...you seriously need to get in line with GUMP. You want to make I'm in line, I've had enough hassles with Gump over the last 3 weeks to grow new grey hairs. But hey, someone breaks Xerces, and it's *my* job to fix it? Things are still a bit skewiff there. sure Maven works and works

Re: GUMP RULEZ WAS: Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-05-01 Thread dion
Andy writes: [snip] I think I'd be resistant to trying an Apache project that wasn't committed to working on GUMP. Previous to GUMP most projects were known Ok, now who's spreading the 'D' in FUDMaven can generate a basic gump descriptor. to be painfully tied to particular versions

Re: GUMP RULEZ WAS: Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-05-01 Thread James Taylor
How interesting, quite a few projects have managed to do it. Obviously we are far less competent, intelligent, or dedicated then those other projects. All things I am perfectly willing to accept as long as you don't make me look at GUMP again. more than it costs. Say I want to use Maven, but

RE: GUMP RULEZ WAS: Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-05-01 Thread Steven Noels
Berin, How does that match up with the NIH attitude towards Krysalis? I wasn't aware of a Jakarta/XML project named cruise control.? Hey, this is a [EMAIL PROTECTED] discussion. For some strange and perhaps slightly biased reason, I'm not too surprised

Reality Check (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!)

2002-05-01 Thread Berin Loritsch
There have been alot of talk back and forth about Maven, Krysalis Centipede, GUMP, ANT, etc., and we are all missing some basic points. 1) GUMP is a continuous integration tool. It is not meant to be more than that. I find it an invaluable tool, and the information it gives me is

Re: GUMP RULEZ WAS: Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-05-01 Thread Berin Loritsch
Steven Noels wrote: Berin, How does that match up with the NIH attitude towards Krysalis? I wasn't aware of a Jakarta/XML project named cruise control.? Hey, this is a [EMAIL PROTECTED] discussion. For some strange and perhaps slightly biased reason,

RE: GUMP RULEZ WAS: Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-05-01 Thread Steven Noels
Berin wrote: Translation: Jakarta = jakarta.apache.org XML = xml.apache.org And the reason on XML.apache.org there is no discussion is: everyone seems to be on board with Forrest--which is using Centipede. I wouldn't say so - while I would like the idea. But if this is the kind of

Re: Reality Check (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!)

2002-05-01 Thread Sam Ruby
Berin Loritsch wrote: There have been alot of talk back and forth about Maven, Krysalis Centipede, GUMP, ANT, etc., and we are all missing some basic points. 1) GUMP is a continuous integration tool. It is not meant to be more than that. I find it an invaluable tool, and the

Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-05-01 Thread dion
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/02/02 12:08 AM Please respond to Jakarta General List To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dude...you seriously need to get

Re: GUMP RULEZ WAS: Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-05-01 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
Fine. The history is that Forrest was in motion before I even knew there was such a thing as Maven. I know the folks involved with Forrest, and they are top notch people. The whole purpose of Forrest is to work with GUMP. (Notice the synergy: Forrest Gump). Forrest was started and

Re: Reality Check (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!)

2002-05-01 Thread dion
Excellent post. The issue I have is that it is not giving that information for projects which have chosen to adopt Maven. This issue is addressible. Sure is...we're working on it, right? I'd love some help, and a reply to my email from before. Meanwhile, if a working Gump project

Re: GUMP RULEZ WAS: Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-05-01 Thread Kurt Schrader
On Thu, 2 May 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Berin Writes: Forrest was started and talked about publicly on the general@xml list before it was even started. That is something that somewhat perturbs me about the Turbine projects. SOmething with Maven's scope and ability should have

Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-05-01 Thread James Taylor
I do. They aren't. Example: http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/2002-05-01/jakarta-turbine-stratum.html Was built using http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/~checkout~/jakarta-turbine-stratum/jakarta-turbine-stratum.xml If nag entries were added to that definition, then perhaps

Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-05-01 Thread Daniel Rall
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That is the /real/ latest version of Centipede. I hope to make a beta of the new Centipede *with* new docs by the weekend. Hope so. Current docs are lacking:

Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!)

2002-05-01 Thread Daniel Rall
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think both projects have nice advantages and features. Maven has good documentation. Centipede is easier to setup and is a bit more advanced in the way it generates documentation. Its a bit alpha but I think the code generation stuff in

Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!)

2002-05-01 Thread Daniel Rall
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, 2002-05-01 at 05:57, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] I think both projects have nice advantages and features. Maven has good documentation. Centipede is easier to setup and is a bit more advanced in the way it generates

Re: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make the decision(was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

2002-05-01 Thread costinm
+1 I would go even further and propose a top level project that will host all project-management tools, including Gump. While gump doesn't have a very big community of developers ( I wish I had more time), it is an essential tool for jakarta, and I think 'it is the real thing'. There are

Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!)

2002-05-01 Thread Peter Donald
On Thu, 2 May 2002 01:20, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Nope. Perhaps your font settings differ from mine or perhaps Redhat or Ximan package different fonts? And I'm at 1600x1200 so well... dunno what the story is. Is anyone else having trouble with this?

Re: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make the decision(was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

2002-05-01 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
+1 to costin's sentiment! I completely agree with everything he said. On Wed, 2002-05-01 at 18:15, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 I would go even further and propose a top level project that will host all project-management tools, including Gump. While gump doesn't have a very big

Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!)

2002-05-01 Thread Daniel Rall
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm attaching screen shots. The source code page is much worse than the javadocs. I'm at 1024x768. The fonts on the source code page came through a bit small, but other than that I didn't see a problem. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For

Re: jakarta subproject scope (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!)

2002-05-01 Thread Daniel Rall
Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 4/30/02 11:31 PM, John McNally [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not know where to locate Turbine's original charter and I think it is a good idea to try to follow it. Are these published somewhere or should Turbine maintain it in its own

Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!)

2002-05-01 Thread Daniel Rall
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yeah... I'll recommend that it be looked at by the people that do that. If I do anything cosmetic its least possible effort based as I HATE doing things that are cosmetic (GUIs, can you move this button ten pixels to the left, bla bla).. . kontent

Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!)

2002-05-01 Thread Daniel Rall
Leo Simons [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There are things I like about Centipede, too, e.g. the cents, and I think there could be a lot of synergy between maven and centipede, e.g. the skins side of things is something I'd like to see with maven, but looking @ POI's site under Linux, the

Re: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make the decision(was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

2002-05-01 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
] cc: 05/02/02 08:15 Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make the AMdecision (was Re: Quick! convert all

Re: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!))

2002-05-01 Thread Daniel Rall
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm also a little worried about the size/vocality of the centipede developer community. Krysalis lists (in the archive) total 53 posts. Maven dev (includes cvs) has 780, and the user list 151. And let's not forget the constant chatter on the IRC server. ;-) -- To

Re: jakarta subproject scope (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!)

2002-05-01 Thread Daniel Rall
Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 5/1/02 12:21 PM, Daniel Rall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think that's stretching 'webapp' I guess tomcat does the same thing as it supplies servlets... :) Not at all. Would you not consider

[Leonidas] an invitation (was RE: [PROPOSAL] Centaven and Friends (was Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!)))

2002-05-01 Thread Marc Portier
Hi, Carefully trying to step in at a moment where there again was an attempt to being usefull :-) (Ken's [PROPOSAL] seemed to me too honest and willing to hijack it into more flamewars) [doing the awfull crosspost reflecting the nature of this message-body] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-04-30 Thread Ignacio J. Ortega
Which are the relation between maven , gump and forrest? They are alternative solutions, complimentary, or what? Saludos , Ignacio J. Ortega -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-04-30 Thread Nicola Ken Barozzi
From: Ignacio J. Ortega [EMAIL PROTECTED] Which are the relation between maven , gump and forrest? They are alternative solutions, complimentary, or what? Here is a mail I sent to CJAN guys on the subject: From: Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:40, Michael Davey

You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!)

2002-04-30 Thread Nicola Ken Barozzi
From: Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quick! convert all your projects build.xml files to being controlled by maven! http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/ The faster we get a centralized build system in Jakarta the better off we will all be. Forget the days where you have

Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-04-30 Thread Michael McCallum
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 So why not just merge the good features of both projects together. Alternatively if each project can deal with the descriptors for the other it doesnt matter. Use whichever you like one will end up be used more. At which point take all the used

Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-04-30 Thread Jon Scott Stevens
on 4/30/02 5:31 PM, Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have yet to be able to build Maven. - Sam Ruby echo maven.home=${user.home}/maven ~/build.properties cvs co jakarta-turbine-maven cd jakarta-turbine-maven ant -f build-bootstrap.xml Seems pretty easy to me. -jon -- To unsubscribe,

Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-04-30 Thread Sam Ruby
Jon Stevens wrote: I have yet to be able to build Maven. echo maven.home=${user.home}/maven ~/build.properties cvs co jakarta-turbine-maven cd jakarta-turbine-maven ant -f build-bootstrap.xml Seems pretty easy to me. I'll believe it when I see it here...

Re: You make the decision (was Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!)

2002-04-30 Thread Glen Stampoultzis
[snip] I think both projects have nice advantages and features. Maven has good documentation. Centipede is easier to setup and is a bit more advanced in the way it generates documentation. Its a bit alpha but I think the I've had the opposite experience. The whole reason I got

Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-04-30 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
Are you volunteering? So far all I've seen in this direction was FUD tactics by Maven. -Andy On Tue, 2002-04-30 at 19:47, Michael McCallum wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 So why not just merge the good features of both projects together. Alternatively if each

Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-04-30 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
In truth I think thats a good idea. So since Maven is under Turbine and really is a bit out of scope, how about moving it over to Krysalis and combine it. I'd love to see a combined effort. Centipede's featureset and modularity + maven's documentation and better names for things! Wow that

Re: Quick! convert all your projects to maven!

2002-04-30 Thread Michael McCallum
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 01 May, 2002 13:59, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Are you volunteering? yes. :) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org