[PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion

2009-11-04 Thread Greg Stein
, which was incorporated into the FS design. In February Brian Behlendorf invited Greg Stein to contribute his WebDAV experience to Subversion. Ben Colins-Sussman was hired in April 2000 to work on the project. In that same month the first all hands meeting was held, where a number of interested people

[RESULT] Subversion is now an Apache Incubator podling (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)

2009-11-07 Thread Greg Stein
the process. I've also started on the Podling web documents. etc. There are also a number of issues for the dev list to decide upon, and followups from that. Cheers, -g On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 15:12, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote:  Subversion is a version control system.  You probably know

Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)

2009-11-08 Thread Greg Stein
The Apache Incubator is about EDUCATION. It is about TEACHING podlings how to work here at Apache. It is not about making podlings thoughtlessly follow checklists. It is about TEACHING them what are the important aspects of development at Apache. About SHOWING them each of the items to be aware

Re: [RESULT] Subversion is now an Apache Incubator podling (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)

2009-11-08 Thread Greg Stein
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 20:07, David Crossley cross...@apache.org wrote: Greg Stein wrote: The proposal to make Subversion an Apache Incubator podling has PASSED. Later this weekend, I'll start sending out emails and requests to begin the process. I've also started on the Podling web documents

Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)

2009-11-09 Thread Greg Stein
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 09:14, Leo Simons m...@leosimons.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 1:25 AM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: The Apache Incubator is about EDUCATION. It is about TEACHING podlings how to work here at Apache. So what are you teaching with e-mails like this, Greg

Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)

2009-11-09 Thread Greg Stein
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 09:27, Martijn Dashorst martijn.dasho...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, *AND* ensuring legal dots are put on the i's and j's. This is done through checking the release and ensuring that it is in adherence to our policies which you and others have crafted. *All* podlings have to

Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)

2009-11-09 Thread Greg Stein
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:11, Andrus Adamchik and...@objectstyle.org wrote: Hi Greg, I am not on either side of the debate here, but Martijn is correct in pointing that the formal standard was applied to *all* podlings to date. I understand, and will simply ask was that the right thing to do?

Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)

2009-11-09 Thread Greg Stein
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:53, Andrus Adamchik and...@objectstyle.org wrote: On Nov 9, 2009, at 5:23 PM, Greg Stein wrote: I mean, really... how many other projects that are 9.5 years old(*) do we expect to see arriving here? And of those, how many *started* with the ideas and precepts

Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)

2009-11-09 Thread Greg Stein
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 11:15, Martijn Dashorst martijn.dasho...@gmail.com wrote: ... I actually like the way you ask for waivers for stuff that is required by the Incubator. But this should be open to any podling, regardless Never said it was specific to Subversion. You're just jumping up and

Re: Insanity (of the release process)

2009-11-09 Thread Greg Stein
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 11:16, Leo Simons m...@leosimons.com wrote: ... Not merit, just binding vote. I agree that it sucks, but it is not something where the incubator has gone awry, it has _always_ been messed up like this. Here's what I understand: 1) Apache rule: all apache releases must

Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)

2009-11-09 Thread Greg Stein
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 12:08, Niall Pemberton niall.pember...@gmail.com wrote: ... It seems though that all you're going to do here in the incubator is go through the IP clearance and ask for waivers on all the other usual steps that a new project goes through. Whats the point of that? Whether

Re: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 09:59, C. Michael Pilato cmpil...@collab.net wrote: ... I certainly understand why license issues would be a concern.  But I could use an education about why this particular case matters.  We currently ship Neon in a separate tarball from Subversion's core code for the

Re: Side Discussion; Mentorship [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 03:23, William A. Rowe, Jr. wr...@rowe-clan.net wrote: ...  * Nominated Mentors: Justin Erenkrantz, Greg Stein, Sander Striker, Daniel Rall Once again, caution against committers == mentors (== 'project leads'). It puts certain committers above others, an inequitable

Re: Side Discussion; Mentorship [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 07:06, Leo Simons m...@leosimons.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:23 AM, William A. Rowe, Jr. wr...@rowe-clan.net wrote: Greg Stein wrote: Sponsors  * Champion: Greg Stein Cool  * Nominated Mentors: Justin Erenkrantz, Greg Stein, Sander Striker, Daniel Rall

Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 03:48, William A. Rowe, Jr. wr...@rowe-clan.net wrote: Greg Stein wrote: The Apache Incubator is about EDUCATION. It is about TEACHING podlings how to work here at Apache. I'm a little confused.  I'm reading a really long rant here, but I expect if you look at what

Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 03:59, William A. Rowe, Jr. wr...@rowe-clan.net wrote: Greg Stein wrote: Yup. And I'll note that that limbo you describe has been an issue with the Board for a long while now. That is why the Board instructed the IPMC to request all podlings to list two items

Re: Insanity (of the release process)

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 04:07, William A. Rowe, Jr. wr...@rowe-clan.net wrote: Leo Simons wrote: Here's what I understand: 1) Apache rule: all apache releases must be made by PMCs 2) Apache rule: a release needs at least 3 binding +1s and more +1s than -1s 3) from #1 and #2 it follows that

Re: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 11:16, Blair Zajac bl...@orcaware.com wrote: On Nov 10, 2009, at 7:10 AM, Greg Stein wrote: On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 09:59, C. Michael Pilato cmpil...@collab.net wrote: ... I certainly understand why license issues would be a concern.  But I could use an education

Re: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 11:29, Jochen Wiedmann jochen.wiedm...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:59 PM, C. Michael Pilato cmpil...@collab.net wrote: Subversion client and server that doesn't use a DAV layer at all.  The Subversion community has never released binaries -- ever -- not

Re: Insanity (of the release process)

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 11:22, Leo Simons m...@leosimons.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: ... The IPMC is in charge of its operation. It can redefine the rules of releases as it pleases. The three +1 rule was developed to show that the PMC

Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 11:23, Kevan Miller kevan.mil...@gmail.com wrote: On Nov 10, 2009, at 10:44 AM, Greg Stein wrote: ... And that is exactly what I'd like to do. But when the Incubator *imposes* requirements of release that does not meet the project's own quality guidelines

[VOTE] Request for Waiver of Make a Release requirement for Incubator graduation

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
/mirror system, announcements, among others[1]. We believe that the Subversion community already has a deep understanding of the Apache release model, based on the following qualifications of several of its committers/mentors: * Greg Stein has been a committer at Apache since before the Foundation

Re: Insanity (of the release process)

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 13:11, William A. Rowe Jr. wr...@rowe-clan.net wrote: Greg Stein wrote: The IPMC is in charge of its operation. It can redefine the rules of releases as it pleases. The three +1 rule was developed to show that the PMC is in charge of the release, and is therefore

Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 13:02, Jukka Zitting jukka.zitt...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: We're making a 1.6.7 release in the next 2-3 weeks, as I stated before. The Incubator can see how that works (I also gave pointers to 1.6.6

Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
I have no idea why the term Board even comes up in your response. What's that got to do with my problems with the IPMC attempting to impose make-work on the svn podling? On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 13:03, William A. Rowe Jr. wr...@rowe-clan.net wrote: Greg Stein wrote: On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 03:59

Re: [VOTE] Request for Waiver of Make a Release requirement for Incubator graduation

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
for   Incubator graduation On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Greg Stein wrote: Hello IPMC, The Subversion podling would like a waiver of the requirement to make a release before graduation. As we understand this requirement, it is present in order to demonstrate to the podling how

Re: [VOTE] Request for Waiver of Make a Release requirement for Incubator graduation

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 13:51, Luciano Resende luckbr1...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: Hello IPMC, The Subversion podling would like a waiver of the requirement to make a release before graduation. As we understand this requirement

Re: [VOTE] Request for Waiver of Make a Release requirement for Incubator graduation

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
Consider this withdrawn for now. I'll resubmit when we think we're nearing time for graduation. Cheers, -g On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 13:17, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: Hello IPMC, The Subversion podling would like a waiver of the requirement to make a release before graduation. As we

Two other issues to discuss for Subversion

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
There are two other issues to discuss for the Subversion podling: * moving the mailing lists directly to @subversion.apache.org * placing the source code at /subversion/ rather than /incubator/subversion/ We are hoping to minimize overall disruption to the community with a move to incubator

Re: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 14:23, Garrett Rooney roo...@electricjellyfish.net wrote: On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 11:29 AM, Jochen Wiedmann jochen.wiedm...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:59 PM, C. Michael Pilato cmpil...@collab.net wrote: Subversion client and server that doesn't use a

Re: Two other issues to discuss for Subversion

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
The project status will stay there and be maintained as long as we're incubating. That's my initial draft to get it into the system. I need to spend more time with it (but have spent time getting other discussions/tasks into the pipeline). I'm just about out of that stuff, so will go update that

Re: Two other issues to discuss for Subversion

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
much of a burden for you guys :) On 11/10/2009 02:27 PM, Greg Stein wrote: There are two other issues to discuss for the Subversion podling: * moving the mailing lists directly to @subversion.apache.org * placing the source code at /subversion/ rather than /incubator/subversion/ We

Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
(was:   [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion) Hi, On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Greg Stein wrote: Unfortunately, some documentation needs to be brought in sync. See: http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#checklist I'm nitpicking, but even there we only ask the podlings to demonstrate

Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
Dims: Exactly. The svn devs have been talking off/on what to do about contrib/ for nearly a year. Various options: simply toss it and wait for people to cry and do something to fix it; somehow get it all relicensed (one of the contributors already said no); etc etc. Current consensus seems to be

Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 17:35, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote: ... Neither 1.6.6 nor the upcoming 1.6.7 are Apache-branded releases. The input that I received was that that was insufficient -- a branded release was necessary. I haven't seen that discussion, but unless you actually

Re: Two other issues to discuss for Subversion

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 21:09, Ralph Goers ralph.go...@dslextreme.com wrote: On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:27 AM, Greg Stein wrote: There are two other issues to discuss for the Subversion podling: * moving the mailing lists directly to @subversion.apache.org * placing the source code

Re: Two other issues to discuss for Subversion

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 22:17, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 21:09, Ralph Goers ralph.go...@dslextreme.com wrote: ... I am fine with doing everything as if this was a TLP with the two exceptions that 1) the main page should say it is still in incubation 2

Re: Two other issues to discuss for Subversion

2009-11-10 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 22:41, Ralph Goers ralph.go...@dslextreme.com wrote: On Nov 10, 2009, at 7:17 PM, Greg Stein wrote: On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 21:09, Ralph Goers ralph.go...@dslextreme.com wrote: On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:27 AM, Greg Stein wrote: There are two other issues to discuss

Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education

2009-11-11 Thread Greg Stein
Plan: raise an issue, and we fix it. Not sure what else you're looking for. We have a lot of active developers. Lots of hands to be responsive. Cheers, -g On Nov 11, 2009 1:48 AM, Jukka Zitting jukka.zitt...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 11:53 PM, Davanum Srinivas

Re: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion

2009-11-11 Thread Greg Stein
On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 07:06, Niall Pemberton niall.pember...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: ... It already has the Apache License (v2), and it uses a NOTICE file (per the license), and our packaging is tighter/stronger than typical Apache

Re: Review-Then-Commit

2009-11-11 Thread Greg Stein
Not a strong opinion, but I think that RTC hampers the free-flow of ideas, experimentation, evolution, and creativity. It is a damper on expressivity. You maneuver bureaucracy to get a change in. CTR is about making a change and discussing it. But you get *forward progress*. I also feel that RTC

Re: Serf vs Neon (was Re: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)

2009-11-11 Thread Greg Stein
On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 20:48, Ralph Goers ralph.go...@dslextreme.com wrote: Is this topic really appropriate for incubator general? I'm having trouble following along with all the noise. At the root, it is a discussion about LGPL dependencies in an incoming podling. Neon is LGPL. Serf is

Re: Review-Then-Commit

2009-11-12 Thread Greg Stein
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:32, Eric Evans eev...@rackspace.com wrote: ... I agree with this, and as a Cassandra committer I have in the past protested our use of RTC. However, the current work-flow *in practice* is more about having someone, anyone, give changes a once over (making sure they

Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)

2009-11-12 Thread Greg Stein
On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 06:18, Niall Pemberton niall.pember...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 1:25 AM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: The Apache Incubator is about EDUCATION. It is about TEACHING podlings how to work here at Apache. It is not about making podlings thoughtlessly

[last call] svn repository moving Sunday (was: Two other issues to discuss for Subversion)

2009-11-12 Thread Greg Stein
, it is still under purview of the IPMC) Is there any further discussion or concerns before we pull the trigger? fwiw, the software grant should arrive tmw, and ICLAs are being recorded as we speak. Thanks, -g On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 14:27, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: There are two other

Re: Two other issues to discuss for Subversion

2009-11-12 Thread Greg Stein
Thanks, and yes: agreed on the rationale. And have no fears. We aren't going to back out. And I'm not seeing that the ASF would boot us. So that just means we need to work through it :-) On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 19:17, Leo Simons m...@leosimons.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Greg

Re: Review-Then-Commit

2009-11-12 Thread Greg Stein
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:44, Matthieu Riou matthieu.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 8:24 AM, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Eric Evans eev...@rackspace.com wrote: On Thu, 2009-11-12 at 07:16 +, ant elder wrote: so about 6 months ago

Re: Review-Then-Commit

2009-11-12 Thread Greg Stein
that stresses individualism rather than cooperation. Cheers, -g On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 17:46, Aidan Skinner aidan.skin...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 3:16 AM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: Not a strong opinion, but I think that RTC hampers the free-flow of ideas

Re: [last call] svn repository moving Sunday (was: Two other issues to discuss for Subversion)

2009-11-12 Thread Greg Stein
Forgot to list the Infrastructure ticket, in case you would like to follow the migration more closely: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-2321 On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 13:41, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: It looks like we might be moving the code repository over on Sunday

[last call] setting up Subversion mailing lists (was: Two other issues to discuss for Subversion)

2009-11-12 Thread Greg Stein
to this list after the creation is complete so that you can subscribe. Cheers, -g [1] but shifting subscribers w/o consent is not among them :-) On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 14:27, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: There are two other issues to discuss for the Subversion podling: * moving the mailing

Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education

2009-11-12 Thread Greg Stein
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 22:05, Jukka Zitting jukka.zitt...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: Plan: raise an issue, and we fix it. Not sure what else you're looking for. I was just pointing out that if you want to do the release review

svn website (was: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education)

2009-11-12 Thread Greg Stein
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 00:14, William A. Rowe Jr. wr...@rowe-clan.net wrote: ... On your other subject, svn and lists and site at subversion.apache.org, that is a problem but not insurmountable. If we move 1) the lists to subversion.apache.org [it's just a discussion, right?  Only publicized

Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education

2009-11-13 Thread Greg Stein
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 12:06, Jukka Zitting jukka.zitt...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 6:51 AM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: But your above paragraph is some conflation of release practices, legal review, and how this fits into graduation requirements. And I just got

Explanation of the extra pain (was: Two other issues to discuss for Subversion)

2009-11-13 Thread Greg Stein
@incubator.apache.org On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: There are two other issues to discuss for the Subversion podling: * moving the mailing lists directly to @subversion.apache.org * placing the source code at /subversion/ rather than /incubator/subversion/ We

Apache Subversion mailing lists have been created

2009-11-14 Thread Greg Stein
Hey all, The Subversion mailing lists have been created. The dev community has not (yet) decided on its migration strategy/timing, but if you're interested in subscribing to any of the lists, that's now possible. We have five lists: dev, users, announce, commits, and private. For any lists,

Re: JavaHL package namespace / migration / compatability

2009-11-16 Thread Greg Stein
Dunno. Lots of java packages have had to deal with the issue as they migrate to the ASF. I'm sure that gene...@incubator (cc'd) has some prior knowledge and precedent. Cheers, -g On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 11:47, C. Michael Pilato cmpil...@collab.net wrote: What does the migration mean for

Fwd: [jira] Closed: (INFRA-2349) configure svnpubsub for subversion.apache.org

2009-11-25 Thread Greg Stein
-                 Key: INFRA-2349                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-2349             Project: Infrastructure          Issue Type: Task      Security Level: public(Regular issues)          Components: Subversion            Reporter: Greg Stein

Discussion: graduating Subversion

2010-01-25 Thread Greg Stein
Hi all, Before calling for a vote to graduate Subversion, I figured it prudent to have a discussion first. I believe Subversion is quite ready (and has been, but the holidays and whatnot kept me from sending this earlier). Any thoughts on why Subversion should NOT graduate now? Thanks, -g

Re: Discussion: graduating Subversion

2010-01-25 Thread Greg Stein
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 17:21, Craig L Russell craig.russ...@sun.com wrote: Hi Greg, On Jan 25, 2010, at 12:49 PM, Greg Stein wrote: Hi all, Before calling for a vote to graduate Subversion, I figured it prudent to have a discussion first. I believe Subversion is quite ready (and has been

Re: Discussion: graduating Subversion

2010-01-26 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 04:56, Leo Simons m...@leosimons.com wrote: On 1/26/10 6:00 AM, Niclas Hedhman wrote: On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 4:49 AM, Greg Steingst...@gmail.com  wrote: Before calling for a vote to graduate Subversion, I figured it prudent to have a discussion first. I believe

Re: [VOTE] Subversion podling for graduation

2010-02-12 Thread Greg Stein
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 23:51, Luciano Resende luckbr1...@gmail.com wrote: ... The graduation page [1] mentions that a resolution should be available. Do we need/Is there one for subversion ? We don't need one until the vote passes. It sure looks that way, but we'll wait the standard 72 hours.

Re: [VOTE] Subversion podling for graduation

2010-02-16 Thread Greg Stein
for my initial role. I've placed a resolution onto the Board's agenda for its meeting tomorrow. Thanks, -g On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 23:08, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, I started a discussion thread a week-ish ago to seek out issues for Subversion's graduation. The couple bits

Subversion is now an official ASF project!

2010-02-17 Thread Greg Stein
Hi all, The ASF Board just voted to approve the graduation of Subversion from the Incubator. We are now an official project of the Apache Software Foundation! Go forth! Be merry! Cheers, -g - To unsubscribe, e-mail:

Re: Future of RAT

2010-08-10 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 09:58, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov wrote: However, I'm not sure I get the whole reasoning below RE: TLP? Why not have a RAT TLP? The overhead of filing board reports and

Re: Future of RAT

2010-08-10 Thread Greg Stein
Let me repeat: where does it say a TLP must be at least THIS size ? Answer: nowhere. Small projects are just fine. We're looking at the overall community and the people to shepherd that community. Those are the RAT developers and users. Not the Apache Commons or Apache Maven people. They have

Re: Future of RAT

2010-08-10 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 06:40, Jochen Wiedmann jochen.wiedm...@gmail.com wrote: ... WDYT? On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 15:26, Craig L Russell craig.russ...@oracle.com wrote: ... I'd suggest letting the RAT PPMC decide what they want to do. If they are unable to come to a decision, they can come

Re: Future of RAT

2010-08-10 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 15:25, Mark Struberg strub...@yahoo.de wrote: Hi! Maybe I need to catch up with the current status: is RAT still mainly targeted to ASF projects, or is it a general Release Audit Tool and as such also useful for releasing GPLed or BSL style projects? If it is still

Re: Future of RAT

2010-08-10 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 22:43, Philip M. Gollucci pgollu...@p6m7g8.com wrote: On 8/10/2010 10:39 PM, Justin Erenkrantz wrote: On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 12:50 PM, Greg Steingst...@gmail.com  wrote: It is *very* true that Infra, Legal, and (all?) ASF PMCs will be clients/users of the tool. But

Re: Future of RAT

2010-08-11 Thread Greg Stein
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 12:12, Stefan Bodewig bode...@apache.org wrote: On 2010-08-11, Niall Pemberton wrote: The real point though is not size - its *activity*. [absolutely correct observation of low activity snipped] My concern is if RAT goes TLP then it may be a small step away from not

Re: Future of RAT

2010-08-11 Thread Greg Stein
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 15:30, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov wrote: Hi Guys, [...] So yes, development activity is low. OTOH patches get applied and releases are made if there is anything to fix.  I'm sure we could have gotten more people to vote if it had been

Re: an experiment

2010-08-11 Thread Greg Stein
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 19:24, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Davanum Srinivas dava...@gmail.com To: general@incubator.apache.org Sent: Wed, August 11, 2010 6:28:17 PM Subject: Re: an experiment Ant, My personal opinion (and i am hoping!) was that such individuals from

Radical revamp (was: an experiment)

2010-08-16 Thread Greg Stein
On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 12:45, Justin Erenkrantz jus...@erenkrantz.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Noel J. Bergman n...@devtech.com wrote: And if the Mentors aren't being active, voting, etc., then *that* is what needs to be addressed. As I've repeatedly stated before (here and

Re: an experiment

2010-08-16 Thread Greg Stein
On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 13:57, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote: ... On committers there is a legal / procedural clarification called for. Perhaps I'm just dense, but I got the strong impression from the recent email at members@ that there was much more flexibility possible with

Re: an experiment

2010-08-16 Thread Greg Stein
On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 16:47, Noel J. Bergman n...@devtech.com wrote: Kevan Miller wrote: IIRC, the issue involved the notion of partial committers in subversion There were objections over the notion of partial committers, not about the individual. shrug There are other instances of such

PMC membership changes (was: an experiment)

2010-08-16 Thread Greg Stein
On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 21:21, Gav... ga...@16degrees.com.au wrote: ... another example, you just posted a whole months worth at members requesting to join the Incubator PMC and Greg just acked the lot -- is this something that only you as Incubator PMC chair can do or can any member send off

Re: an experiment

2010-08-16 Thread Greg Stein
On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 21:30, Noel J. Bergman n...@devtech.com wrote: Greg Stein wrote: ... but the busy-bodies and rules pedants got all in our face. I read that thread, and as I commented on private@, I thought that it could have been handled better. I certainly could have handled

Re: Radical revamp (was: an experiment)

2010-08-16 Thread Greg Stein
On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 22:00, Noel J. Bergman n...@devtech.com wrote: Greg Stein wrote: ... Make the podling a TLP comprised of *only* ASF Members, with at least *three* minimum (preferably more, to deal with idle times). The podling committers are invited onto the priv...@$podling.apache.org

Re: Radical revamp

2010-08-16 Thread Greg Stein
On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 22:07, Ross Gardler rgard...@apache.org wrote: On 17/08/2010 03:00, Noel J. Bergman wrote: I think that it is a very interesting proposal, that could work very well in specific circumstances, and I'd be willing to see it tried as an experiment, if the Board buys into

Re: an experiment

2010-08-16 Thread Greg Stein
On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 22:29, Noel J. Bergman n...@devtech.com wrote: Greg Stein wrote: I read that thread, and as I commented on private@, I thought that it could have been handled better. I certainly could have handled it better. I didn't mean by YOU.  See my reply on private@ before

Re: Radical revamp (was: an experiment)

2010-08-16 Thread Greg Stein
On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 22:31, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote: - Original Message From: Noel J. Bergman n...@devtech.com To: general@incubator.apache.org Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 10:00:40 PM Subject: RE: Radical revamp (was: an experiment) Greg Stein wrote: Using

Re: Radical revamp (was: an experiment)

2010-08-16 Thread Greg Stein
On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 22:53, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote: It's optimized for success while making mentors potentially responsible for failure (iow a project with crappy mentors will fail no matter how much they grok apache). Fair assessment, but those *are* the projects that

Re: [DISCUSS] OODT Podling Incubator Experiment (was Re: Radical revamp (was: an experiment))

2010-08-16 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 01:08, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov wrote: Hey Justin, Thanks so much for your thoughtful reply. My comments below: See, here's where I get a bit discomforted by this entire process: I honestly don't feel that I deserve a vote on OODT

Re: Subversion full/partial committer (was: Re: an experiment)

2010-08-17 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 14:03, Craig L Russell craig.russ...@oracle.com wrote: ... Craig L Russell wrote on Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 09:42:18 -0700: ... I don't care what you call them in the project. I'm asking that you use Apache terminology when discussing things among the wider Apache

Re: Subversion full/partial committer (was: Re: an experiment)

2010-08-18 Thread Greg Stein
On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 18:02, Sanjiva Weerawarana sanj...@opensource.lk wrote: On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 11:13 PM, Daniel Shahaf d...@daniel.shahaf.namewrote: When I saw this month's board report for Subversion, I was taken aback that the board is expected to follow the terminology used by

Re: [VOTE] experimental delegation of new committer votes to PPMC

2010-08-18 Thread Greg Stein
To further expand on this comment: The Board said that PMCs can make their own rules on how committership is granted. The Board has no opinion on what the Incubator wants to do with this topic because that choice is and has always been delegated to the PMC. This is a consensus opinion of the

Re: [VOTE] experimental delegation of new committer votes to PPMC

2010-08-18 Thread Greg Stein
+1 On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 13:44, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote: I have come to the realization that I'm not going to convince Noel to see things my way any time soon, so I'd like to now ask for a formal majority consensus vote on relaxed rules for the 3 aforementioned projects.

Re: Subversion full/partial committer (was: Re: an experiment)

2010-08-19 Thread Greg Stein
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 13:29, Noel J. Bergman n...@devtech.com wrote: ... No way would the Board (nor you) allow arbitrary terminology across projects even if it is parentheticals (whatever that means). As far as I'm concerned, the participants are Committers.  There is no need to

Re: Subversion full/partial committer (was: Re: an experiment)

2010-08-19 Thread Greg Stein
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:03, Ralph Goers ralph.go...@dslextreme.com wrote: ... This seems really simple to me. If I move from Korea to the United States I'd better start learning to speak English if I want to interact with the population at large. If I just want to stay within my little

Re: Subversion full/partial committer (was: Re: an experiment)

2010-08-19 Thread Greg Stein
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:06, Niclas Hedhman nic...@hedhman.org wrote: On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 2:26 AM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: ... The report is consumed by the svn community, too. They reviewed it and provided feedback. It uses terms from the svn community. ... No way would

Re: Subversion full/partial committer (was: Re: an experiment)

2010-08-19 Thread Greg Stein
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 14:56, Noel J. Bergman n...@devtech.com wrote: Greg Stein wrote: Actually, we don't use ACLs at all. We simply tell them only commit in your designated area. We haven't ever had a problem with that approach. Even better.  :-)  Relies on human respect. Even better

Re: Subversion full/partial committer (was: Re: an experiment)

2010-08-19 Thread Greg Stein
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 16:20, Noel J. Bergman n...@devtech.com wrote: So it allows them to seamlessly earn wider karma via RTC? Correct. So, it promotes CTR by the more experienced hands, and RTC by the less experienced hands.  That does not seem like a bad thing. Yup. And to clarify:

Re: Subversion full/partial committer (was: Re: an experiment)

2010-08-19 Thread Greg Stein
Oh, I totally understand what you're saying. And I respectfully and totally disagree with it on several levels. We can leave it at that, or you can propose a Resolution to the Board to enforce terminology whenever different communities want to communicate here at Apache. Should the Board pass

Re: [VOTE] Thrift 0.4.0 RC1

2010-08-20 Thread Greg Stein
+1 On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 16:51, Bryan Duxbury br...@rapleaf.com wrote: Hi all, In all the time it took for us to finally release Thrift 0.3, we've accumulated enough changes for Thrift 0.4! I propose we accept

Re: Projects with small community

2010-08-24 Thread Greg Stein
There are a few Incubator projects that have small communities. I see no problem with trying it. You could certainly get some better visibility here, in order to grow your community. Cheers, -g On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 10:05, Christian Grobmeier grobme...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, together with

Re: [PROPOSAL] Kitty to Enter the Incubator

2010-09-07 Thread Greg Stein
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 20:29, Matthew Sacks matt...@matthewsacks.comwrote: ... *Mailing Lists* kitty-dev kitty-commits kitty-user Is there a large user community already? If not, then splitting the community across dev/user does not make sense. You want to keep the users and developers on

Re: [PROPOSAL] Kitty to Enter the Incubator

2010-09-09 Thread Greg Stein
can't be one, because I'm not. p On 08/09/2010 16:00, Mohammad Nour El-Din wrote: +1 (Notbinding) On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 7:22 AM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 20:29, Matthew Sacks matt...@matthewsacks.comwrote: ... *Mailing Lists* kitty-dev kitty-commits

Re: Role of Incubator PMC Votes

2010-09-09 Thread Greg Stein
On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 14:11, Kalle Korhonen kalle.o.korho...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 08:47, James Carman ja...@carmanconsulting.com wrote: I haven't followed this particular issue because it seems like

Re: No dev-, user- lists for small podlings (was: Re: [PROPOSAL] Kitty to Enter the Incubator)

2010-09-09 Thread Greg Stein
The formation of your community is a BIG DEAL. Not something to casually sweep under the rug. Partitioning the community between users and devs makes it very difficult to establish a large, viable, sustainable community. If projects arrive at the Incubator with an already-built user community,

Re: Podling to use native git

2010-10-01 Thread Greg Stein
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 04:45, Mark Struberg strub...@yahoo.de wrote: I think it's really worse, as branches aren't maintained anymore in the apache svn area, yes, and anyone ever asked yourself _why_ this happens? The answer imo is: because its _sooo_ painful to do feature branches in SVN

Re: Podling to use native git

2010-10-01 Thread Greg Stein
, 2010 at 11:44 PM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: I do branches all the time in Subversion, and don't see problems. We periodically update the branch from trunk, and when the work is done, merge the branch back onto trunk. These are straight-forward operations, so I don't understand

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