Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-20 Thread Santiago Gala
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 El jueves, 18 dici, 2003, a las 15:52 Europe/Madrid, Henri Yandell escribió: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/whoweare.html lists the PMC members up until the previous addition of 20 or so. That list has to go to the board etc and I plan to add them

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-20 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On Dec 19, 2003, at 12:56 AM, Rainer Klute wrote: On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:23:16 -0500 Harish Krishnaswamy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the record I'm in favour of transacting business HERE. But I would like to respond by saying that as I understand it it is the source and the development of it

Re: Jakarta: Confederation or Single Project?

2003-12-20 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On Dec 19, 2003, at 3:33 PM, Costin Manolache wrote: Ted Husted : [SNIP] I agreed w/ every word from Costin. And look what's happening with logging: Now that it's a TLP, they are bringing-in the various Log4J compatibles. Now, there can be one Apache logging project serving every platform.

[OT] [JOKE] Re: Jakarta: Confederation or Single Project?

2003-12-20 Thread Brian McCallister
Holy war time: IoC TLP's public class Log4J implements JakartaAware, LoggingAware { ... } public class Log4J { public void setJakarta(Jakarta jakarta) { ... } public void setLogging(Logging logging) { ... } } public class Log4J { public Log4J(Jakarta jakarta,

Re: Jakarta: Confederation or Single Project?

2003-12-20 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On Dec 19, 2003, at 2:27 PM, Ted Husted wrote: Harish Krishnaswamy wrote: ASF is a group of projects administered by the Apache board members. The board delegates certain responsibilities over to the PMCs of the individual projects while still maintaining the authority and management

Re: Jakarta: Confederation or Single Project?

2003-12-20 Thread Tetsuya Kitahata
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 07:36:20 -0500 Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: One example might be a lawyer working closely w/ a community (for whatever reason) - that lawyer might be providing tremendous input and participation, but has no need/use for committership. That person could still be a member

Re: Jakarta: Confederation or Single Project?

2003-12-20 Thread Ceki Gülcü
Log4j is not leaving. It is simply moving to a new room in the house, a room with a different label but still located within the same house. As any house, this house offers protection and comfort to its inhabitants. It is a place where developers can unleash their creative powers onto the world.

Re: Jakarta: Confederation or Single Project?

2003-12-20 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On Dec 19, 2003, at 10:33 AM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Radical view: allow the subprojects to send 1-2 delegates to the PMC and require each subproject to send one or die. I think that the only problem w/ that solution (the first part) is that there could be doubt that 1-2 delegates would be

PMC membership : I fear additional responsibility

2003-12-20 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr
I want to share a conversation that I hope sheds some light on what it means to be on the PMC. I was talking to a friend yesterday who said I fear additional responsibility. I told him that he should have nothing to fear, as what's being asked for is that the committers simply continue to pay

Re: Jakarta: Confederation or Single Project?

2003-12-20 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On Dec 20, 2003, at 8:24 AM, Ceki Gülcü wrote: Log4j is not leaving. It is simply moving to a new room in the house, a room with a different label but still located within the same house. As any house, this house offers protection and comfort to its inhabitants. It is a place where developers

Re: TRACE level [WAS] Jakarta: Confederation or Single Project?

2003-12-20 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 08:31 AM 12/20/2003 -0500, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: public_pestering type=obligatory Can we have TRACE as a supported level? /public_pestering Subsequent to the demand for the TRACE level expressed by a number of user, there is every reason to believe that a vote will be held on this topic

Re: TRACE level [WAS] Jakarta: Confederation or Single Project?

2003-12-20 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On Dec 20, 2003, at 8:40 AM, Ceki Gülcü wrote: At 08:31 AM 12/20/2003 -0500, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: public_pestering type=obligatory Can we have TRACE as a supported level? /public_pestering Subsequent to the demand for the TRACE level expressed by a number of user, there is every reason to

Re: Jakarta: Confederation or Single Project?

2003-12-20 Thread Ted Husted
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: I'd say it the other way around. The ASF is a collection of communities that create and maintain codebases. To obtain infrastructure support and some legal protection, these communities donate the copyright of its software and ownership of its brand to the Foundation.

Re: TRACE level [WAS] Jakarta: Confederation or Single Project?

2003-12-20 Thread Ceki Gülcü
At 08:42 AM 12/20/2003 -0500, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: On Dec 20, 2003, at 8:40 AM, Ceki Gülcü wrote: Subsequent to the demand for the TRACE level expressed by a number of user, there is every reason to believe that a vote will be held on this topic before log4j 1.3 is released. However, there

Re: Jakarta: Confederation or Single Project?

2003-12-20 Thread Santiago Gala
El sábado, 20 dici, 2003, a las 14:00 Europe/Madrid, Geir Magnusson Jr. escribió: On Dec 19, 2003, at 2:27 PM, Ted Husted wrote: (...) A very subtle concept is that the ASF doesn't actually own the codebase. The codebase belongs to its community, and under the Apache License, that community

Re: Jakarta: Confederation or Single Project?

2003-12-20 Thread Ted Husted
Santiago Gala wrote: [SNIP] This implies that those having easier ability or will to maintain the product are the effective owners of it. as in a rapidly changing environment, software rot takes care of static code bases. Exactly. There is a saying from Dune: Whoever has the power to destroy

I thought I'd ask some users

2003-12-20 Thread Stephen Colebourne
As an experiment, I tried asking some non-Jakarta people about some of the issues we face: http://www.javalobby.org/thread.jspa?forumID=61threadID=10427 Some comments that made me smile were: Honestly, Jakarta doesn't mean much to me at all, other than some arbitrary grouping under Apache. I

Re: PMC membership : I fear additional responsibility

2003-12-20 Thread Martin Cooper
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: I want to share a conversation that I hope sheds some light on what it means to be on the PMC. I was talking to a friend yesterday who said I fear additional responsibility. I told him that he should have nothing to fear, as what's being asked

RE: TRACE level [WAS] Jakarta: Confederation or Single Project?

2003-12-20 Thread Danny Angus
Unfortunately, you can't buy nor open source humor. Perhaps you could delegate it? I've often considered selling my children on the internet, they have a great sense of humour. OTOH perhaps it wouldn't stretch *that* far! d. disclaimer that was a JOKE, my wife would go seriously ballistic if

RE: TRACE level [WAS] Jakarta: Confederation or Single Project?

2003-12-20 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Danny Angus wrote: disclaimer that was a JOKE, my wife would go seriously ballistic if I sold our kids /disclaimer Really? I'd pay to see that! ;-) Can we start a pool to see who comes closest to the apogee? --- Noel

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-20 Thread Henri Yandell
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003, Santiago Gala wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 El jueves, 18 dici, 2003, a las 15:52 Europe/Madrid, Henri Yandell escribió: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/whoweare.html lists the PMC members up until the previous addition of 20 or so. That

Re: PMC membership : I fear additional responsibility

2003-12-20 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On Dec 20, 2003, at 5:01 PM, Martin Cooper wrote: On Sat, 20 Dec 2003, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: I want to share a conversation that I hope sheds some light on what it means to be on the PMC. I was talking to a friend yesterday who said I fear additional responsibility. I told him that he

Re: Jakarta: Confederation or Single Project?

2003-12-20 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On Dec 20, 2003, at 11:36 AM, Santiago Gala wrote: El sábado, 20 dici, 2003, a las 14:00 Europe/Madrid, Geir Magnusson Jr. escribió: On Dec 19, 2003, at 2:27 PM, Ted Husted wrote: (...) A very subtle concept is that the ASF doesn't actually own the codebase. The codebase belongs to its