Re: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-19 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On Dec 19, 2003, at 12:21 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Henri Yandell wrote: If all the PMC's share the same website, who is responsible for the website as a global concept. For example, the need to do mirrors. If a Jakarta-Site PMC exists, all other PMCs [jakarta sub-project based] are accepting

Re: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread hlship
The more I see of this discussion, the more convinced I am that the sub-projects of Jakarta should be run like mini-TLPs. We want to leverage the marketing power of the Jakarta brand, the experience of the other Jakarta developers, and some infrastructure support (web page, CVS, mailing lists,

Re: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Harish Krishnaswamy
If the aim of the PMC is to house a vast majority of committers, and if the role of a PMC member is simply to follow some guidelines and regulate development, I don't see the distinction between a PMC member and a committer. If the PMC membership requires legal and governing skills, I am not

Re: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Henri Yandell
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The more I see of this discussion, the more convinced I am that the sub-projects of Jakarta should be run like mini-TLPs. We want to leverage the marketing power of the Jakarta brand, the experience of the other Jakarta developers, and some

RE: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Howard Lewis Ship wrote: The more I see of this discussion, the more convinced I am that the sub-projects of Jakarta should be run like mini-TLPs. We want to leverage the marketing power of the Jakarta brand, the experience of the other Jakarta developers, and some infrastructure support

Re: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Henri Yandell
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Harish Krishnaswamy wrote: If the aim of the PMC is to house a vast majority of committers, and if the role of a PMC member is simply to follow some guidelines and regulate development, I don't see the distinction between a PMC member and a committer. If the PMC

Re: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Harish Krishnaswamy
Henri Yandell wrote: On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Harish Krishnaswamy wrote: If the aim of the PMC is to house a vast majority of committers, and if the role of a PMC member is simply to follow some guidelines and regulate development, I don't see the distinction between a PMC member and a committer.

RE: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Henri Yandell wrote: I would have embraced that idea a year ago, but when discussed it was said to not be an option to have a hierarchy of PMCs below the Jakarta PMC of 7 members. There is a difference between a hierarchy and a confederation. There is absolutely nothing that says that we

RE: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Noel J. Bergman
I don't see the distinction between a PMC member and a committer. grin You catch on quickly. :-) The difference is that a PMC member, as a normative statement, has a binding vote on the project. By allowing someone to become a Committer, you allow direct contribution to the codebase, but the

Re: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Henri Yandell
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Harish Krishnaswamy wrote: Henri Yandell wrote: On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Harish Krishnaswamy wrote: If the aim of the PMC is to house a vast majority of committers, and if the role of a PMC member is simply to follow some guidelines and regulate development, I

RE: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Henri Yandell
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Henri Yandell wrote: I would have embraced that idea a year ago, but when discussed it was said to not be an option to have a hierarchy of PMCs below the Jakarta PMC of 7 members. There is a difference between a hierarchy and a

Re: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Mark R. Diggory
Henri Yandell wrote: Obviously, something is afoot ... otherwise, why are healthy projects moving out of Jakarta, up to the top level (Ant, Maven and now logging)? Is that the destiny of Jakarta, to be a second-level incubator for projects on the way to TLP status? If so ... embrace that. As

Re: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Brian McCallister
On Thu, 2003-12-18 at 14:03, Henri Yandell wrote: Either it would roll back to the old style as Tomcat + friends, or would become the Java-Foundry for Apache [a la Sourceforge], or would become Jakarta Commons, or both of the latter two. Dunno what other visions there might be out there for

Re: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On Dec 18, 2003, at 2:24 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Henri Yandell wrote: I would have embraced that idea a year ago, but when discussed it was said to not be an option to have a hierarchy of PMCs below the Jakarta PMC of 7 members. There is a difference between a hierarchy and a confederation.

Re: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On Dec 18, 2003, at 2:35 PM, Henri Yandell wrote: On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Henri Yandell wrote: I would have embraced that idea a year ago, but when discussed it was said to not be an option to have a hierarchy of PMCs below the Jakarta PMC of 7 members. There is a

Re: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Harish Krishnaswamy
Ah now it all makes sense :) May be this should be included with the CLA and then there would be no reason to lobby for more members, really. -Harish Noel J. Bergman wrote: I don't see the distinction between a PMC member and a committer. grin You catch on quickly. :-) The difference is

Re: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Harish Krishnaswamy
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: On Dec 18, 2003, at 3:08 PM, Harish Krishnaswamy wrote: Ah now it all makes sense :) May be this should be included with the CLA and then there would be no reason to lobby for more members, really. We want to make sure that the PMC members are committers who

Re: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Dirk Verbeeck
+1 If this is acceptable by the board then it's the ideal solution. No changes to the email/website structure, jakarta remains the center of the apache java development with a shared announcement list, general list, news and download pages, ... The only change is that the board gets a list of

Re: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Ted Husted
To do this, each product would simply need to draft a resolution to create the PMC and select a chair, and ask that it be placed on the board's agenda for the next meeting, just as Log4J and the others did. It would be very important that each product do this themselves, to help show they are

Re: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Dirk Verbeeck
I'm not asking for a change, I only see a lot of mails again and again about the board asking for more insight into the working of jakarta. Same with the whole jakarta-commons apache-commons discussion. If this can be solved by just doing some paperwork (writing down who is supervising what)

Re: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
1) s/product/sub-project/ 2) I don't know what 'hosted at Jakarta' means. The CVS repositories are ASF respositories - there is no hierarchy grouping them as 'jakarta'. As for using the Jakarta website, the Jakarta community would be responsible for it, and thus they will decide on it's

Re: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Henri Yandell
Multiple PMCs is not a problem. There are James, Maven people on the Jakarta PMC etc. The idea below still concerns me. If all the PMC's share the same website, who is responsible for the website as a global concept. For example, the need to do mirrors. If a Jakarta-Site PMC exists, all other

Re: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Harish Krishnaswamy
Henri Yandell wrote: Multiple PMCs is not a problem. There are James, Maven people on the Jakarta PMC etc. The idea below still concerns me. If all the PMC's share the same website, who is responsible for the website as a global concept. For example, the need to do mirrors. If a Jakarta-Site

Re: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On Dec 18, 2003, at 5:27 PM, Dirk Verbeeck wrote: +1 If this is acceptable by the board then it's the ideal solution. No changes to the email/website structure, jakarta remains the center of the apache java development with a shared announcement list, general list, news and download pages, ...

RE: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Henri Yandell wrote: If all the PMC's share the same website, who is responsible for the website as a global concept. For example, the need to do mirrors. If a Jakarta-Site PMC exists, all other PMCs [jakarta sub-project based] are accepting the Jakarta Site PMC's oversight over their

RE: Why you *want* to be on the PMC

2003-12-18 Thread Craig R. McClanahan
Quoting Noel J. Bergman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Henri Yandell wrote: If all the PMC's share the same website, who is responsible for the website as a global concept. For example, the need to do mirrors. If a Jakarta-Site PMC exists, all other PMCs [jakarta sub-project based] are