Re: [Jgeneral] J602 available

[Björn Helgason]

I mark the properties for J.exe to run as admin in Vista and then pacman
runs fine

2008/3/12, Dan Bron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Bill Harris wrote:
> >  shutting down 14 windows, when one of those is Emacs with
> > umpteen windows, isn't a  spur-of-the-moment thing, and I obvious
>
>
> Can you not simply "switch users" rather than "log off"?  I do this all
> the time on my Windows XP box.
>
> I've also been known to start command prompts with "run as..."
> administrator.
>
> A little more involved, but worth it IMO, is to install cygwin and its SSH
> daemon (service), then set up some keys, along with PuTTY and Pageant.  Then
> you can just putty into your own system as an admin.  No passwords or
> anything.
>
>
> -Dan
>
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>



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Re: [Jgeneral] J602 available

[Bill Harris]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

"Sherlock, Ric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I prefer to have my j602-user folder as a sub-directory of
> \Documents (\My Documents in XP). If you wanted to do this
> you need to create an appropriate profilex.ijs in ~system\bin\. See
> ~system\bin\profilex_template.ijs for instructions, use a variation of
> example 3 to create your user directory in ...\My Documents\j602-user.

I may move it there.

> That would mean you don't have to modify your backup scripts, but may
> not suit you for other reasons. I certainly prefer having it in My
> Documents on XP because it is easier to navigate to \My
> Documents\j602-user than to \j602-user. Others have argued that
> \j602-user is more logical and in the end I suppose it just
> comes down to what works best for you.

That (easier to navigate to) is something I've already discovered.  

> I too would be interested in tips from more experienced users. I've
> only been using J since j601 and therefore don't have much "baggage"
> (yet), so I was able to update & move all my old j601 scripts to j602
> without too much problem. Going forward I can see this will become an
> issue for me and currently I envisage multiple versions of J installed
> side by side in Program Files, pointing to their version-specific
> ~user folders in \Documents.  As I migrate code to the next
> version I would move it from \Documents\j602-user to
> \Documents\j603-user.

At least I got rid of or upgraded all my J305 and earlier stuff years
ago (I think).

I discovered another problem (or benefit -- I'm not sure which) just
now.  I wanted to use a script I had saved in my J601 Projects directory
that required another script that was referenced as being in ~Projects.
Needless to say, ~Projects is now somewhere else, so I'll have to go
back and check all my old scripts for that problem, verify they work on
J602, and then migrate them to their new location.  The good news is
that it forces me to do at least a bit of regression testing on J602;
the bad news is that I really don't have time for that right now.

> However the above is all untested theory and yet to be subjected to
> the vagaries of "real life"!

Thanks for your tips, Ric.  I guess I should get involved in the next
beta program.

Bill
- -- 
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Facilitated Systems  Everett, WA 98208 USA
http://facilitatedsystems.com/  phone: +1 425 337-5541
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Re: [Jgeneral] J602 available

[Oleg Kobchenko]

A few notes about install location:
 - "structure" is a good thing, but putting all programs under same folder
is more like flat list than a strucuture.
So I prefer to organize things under top root folders: Math, Tools, etc.
In Program Files I put most ordinary things that I won't be browsing to.

- the security permissions issues seen in Program Files may not be tied to
this location: (1) any other folder can be given such restrictions;
(2) any subfolder of Program Files should be capable of relieving thereof.

Oleg


On Mar 12, 2008, at 17:53, "Eric Iverson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

To run pacman to update files in a protected folder such as Program Files you 
need to have permission. You may be able to right click the J icon and select 
'Run as Administrator'. Or you may have to actually log on as an admin account 
an run J there as admin to run pacman.

Running XP on a limited account is good practice. This is a little less 
necessary on Vista as accounts are by default limited, but can fairly easily 
and visibly boosted to admin when required.

Again, I wonder why people install J in "program files". How do the advantages 
weigh against the disadvantages?

- Original Message - From: "Bill Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "General forum" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Jgeneral] J602 available


-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

"Eric Iverson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

J602 is available.

I just took a moment to install.  Since installing J601, I've followed
MS's recommendations and converted my account to a limited account
status, adding another account with admin privileges.  When I ran the J
installer, I ran it as that administrator, because I wanted to install
in c:Program Files/J602.  That seemed to work; I have a working J602.

What didn't work was Pacman.  While in J601 I could run Pacman out of my
current J session, J602 complains I need to become an admin.

I quit J602 and ran j.exe as admin.  That seems to work, but is that the
intended process?  I cant' find anything that indicates others have run
into this.

One disadvantage is that Pacman offers the Info button, which does make
it easy to find the JWiki page corresponding to a particular package
quickly.  While I can perhaps understand not wanting to run Pacman as a
limited user, it would be nice to be able to open Pacman, see what's
installed, and read the Info pages and have Pacman only refuse when you
try to update or install something.

One other small installation suggestion: some installers ask in which
group one wants to place the start shortcut.  J602 didn't, and so I'll
go back and move it to my Programming group the next time I am logged in
as an admin /and/ I happen to think of it (shutting down 14 windows,
when one of those is Emacs with umpteen windows, isn't a
spur-of-the-moment thing, and I obviously can't make such a change as a
limited user).

Other than that, it was a simple process.

Thanks,

Bill
- -- Bill Harris  http://facilitatedsystems.com/weblog/
Facilitated Systems  Everett, WA 98208 USA
http://facilitatedsystems.com/  phone: +1 425 337-5541
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RE: [Jgeneral] J602 available

[Sherlock, Ric]

A lot of what Rob said resonates with me as well.

I just wanted to add that perspective is probably important too.

"Why install J in Program files"? - because it is a program just like a whole 
lot of other ones that I use. Why should it be special/different? (I admit that 
it is becoming more special to me as time goes on!)

I can see that taken in isolation a standard install of J makes a lot of sense. 
However if J is just one program of many that I use, then it becomes an 
exception and exceptions require additional overhead. Taken to the extreme, if 
all programs wanted to be different then, as Rob suggests, there would be no 
expected structure and finding stuff, manually or programmatically, would be 
much more difficult. Structured data is much easier to work with than 
un-structured data!

---Rob Hodgkinson wrote:
> On 13/03/08 8:53 AM, "Eric Iverson" wrote:
> > ...
> > Again, I wonder why people install J in "program files". How do the
> > advantages weigh against the disadvantages?
> >
> Some reasons I prefer to install in Program Files:
> (1) I like to have only one place to look to see what programs (equipment
> supplier, 3rd party, user defined etc) are installed on my machine
> (2) It has become a de facto standard to install programs
> in one place under
> Program Files.  An artifact of DOS/Earlier Windows was that program
> directories just Œappeared¹ everywhere beneath C:\ which
> made things a little
> messy/less structured to work with.
> (3) Further, it encourages user data to be separated from
> program data,
> simplifying backups (faster, lightweight etc).  Programs
> aren¹t much help for
> recovery (unless within a disk image) so can waste backup
> time, and then you
> need only point to the Œtop level¹ data/user folder to
> identify the backup
> source.  Also having Œjust data¹ in one well identified
> area/folder simplifies
> searches for files/text etc (typically seeking something of mine).
> (4) With data separated (and only the programs in Program
> Files) then you
> don¹t risk inadvertently losing your data should an upgrade
> destroy/overwrite
> the previous version (This is more of a data separation
> advantage than
> anything to do with Program Files, but Œprogram
> collections¹ do encourage
> storing data elsewhere than in Program Files).
>
> I just found the system easier to manage over time (I
> worked in Sys/NW Admin
> for a large company for 8 years too, so it really did help).  Disk
> organisation is something that seems like the suppliers
> leave to each user, so
> any reasonable/logical structure has advantages.
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RE: [Jgeneral] J602 available

[Sherlock, Ric]

---Bill Harris wrote:
> That brings up a related problem: is there a summary of good practices
> for managing associated J files?  I like that you've moved
> ~user out of
> the J directory for several reasons, but I do have to modify my backup
> scripts to find j602-user (I was backing up My Documents plus a few
> other specific files, and this is now another one to grab).

I prefer to have my j602-user folder as a sub-directory of \Documents 
(\My Documents in XP). If you wanted to do this you need to create an 
appropriate profilex.ijs in ~system\bin\. See ~system\bin\profilex_template.ijs 
for instructions, use a variation of example 3 to create your user directory in 
...\My Documents\j602-user.

That would mean you don't have to modify your backup scripts, but may not suit 
you for other reasons. I certainly prefer having it in My Documents on XP 
because it is easier to navigate to \My Documents\j602-user than to 
\j602-user. Others have argued that \j602-user is more logical and 
in the end I suppose it just comes down to what works best for you.

> My problem is that I now have directories in Program Files for j406,
> j503a, j504, j601, and j602.  "One of these days" I promise
> myself I'll
> go through and move older scripts to the latest version, fixing any
> problems along the way, but that one day never seems to get here in
> general.  Thus I don't delete an older released J engine just
> in case I
> need it, and I don't blindly move the contents of the user directory
> from one version to the next without good testing on my part.  As you
> can guess, these are mostly programs I use on somewhat rare occasion,
> not production programs I would have fixed at the upgrade.
>
> If J didn't evolve, I'd suggest just having a j-user directory, not
> j602-user, but I realize that various changes over the versions have
> made such an approach risky.  I've in effect done that on
> some programs,
> as I've stored certain J scripts with the project I've been working on
> at the time instead of in ~user, and I probably haven't always
> documented the J version such scripts were last known to run on.

I too would be interested in tips from more experienced users. I've only been 
using J since j601 and therefore don't have much "baggage" (yet), so I was able 
to update & move all my old j601 scripts to j602 without too much problem. 
Going forward I can see this will become an issue for me and currently I 
envisage multiple versions of J installed side by side in Program Files, 
pointing to their version-specific ~user folders in \Documents.  As I 
migrate code to the next version I would move it from 
\Documents\j602-user to \Documents\j603-user.

However the above is all untested theory and yet to be subjected to the 
vagaries of "real life"!
--
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Re: [Jgeneral] J602 available

[Bill Harris]

"Sherlock, Ric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On a fairly basic install of Windows XP Professional SP2, logged on
> with a limited account I get a menu when I right click on menu item in
> the Start menu. If you do not, you might be able to enable the menu
> by: right click Start menu|Properties|Start Menu
> tab|Customize...|Advanced tab|Enable dragging and dropping.

Ric,

That worked; thanks.

> Having said that I have to admit that I can't get Windows Explorer to
> start when I try to Run as... an account with Admin
> permissions. However Command Prompt does work, as does j602.

Same here. :-(

Bill
-- 
Bill Harris  http://facilitatedsystems.com/weblog/
Facilitated Systems  Everett, WA 98208 USA
http://facilitatedsystems.com/  phone: +1 425 337-5541
--
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Re: [Jgeneral] J602 available

[Rob Hodgkinson]

On 13/03/08 8:53 AM, "Eric Iverson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> Again, I wonder why people install J in "program files". How do the
> advantages weigh against the disadvantages?
> 
> Some reasons I prefer to install in Program Files:
> (1) I like to have only one place to look to see what programs (equipment
> supplier, 3rd party, user defined etc) are installed on my machine
> (2) It has become a de facto standard to install programs in one place under
> Program Files.  An artifact of DOS/Earlier Windows was that program
> directories just Œappeared¹ everywhere beneath C:\ which made things a little
> messy/less structured to work with.
> (3) Further, it encourages user data to be separated from program data,
> simplifying backups (faster, lightweight etc).  Programs aren¹t much help for
> recovery (unless within a disk image) so can waste backup time, and then you
> need only point to the Œtop level¹ data/user folder to identify the backup
> source.  Also having Œjust data¹ in one well identified area/folder simplifies
> searches for files/text etc (typically seeking something of mine).
> (4) With data separated (and only the programs in Program Files) then you
> don¹t risk inadvertently losing your data should an upgrade destroy/overwrite
> the previous version (This is more of a data separation advantage than
> anything to do with Program Files, but Œprogram collections¹ do encourage
> storing data elsewhere than in Program Files).
> 
> I just found the system easier to manage over time (I worked in Sys/NW Admin
> for a large company for 8 years too, so it really did help).  Disk
> organisation is something that seems like the suppliers leave to each user, so
> any reasonable/logical structure has advantages.
> 
> Regards, Rob Hodgkinson

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RE: [Jgeneral] J602 available

[Sherlock, Ric]

Bill Harris wrote:
> > I think you are using XP. In which case you should be able to run an
> > Explorer session or Command prompt as another (Admin) user and make
> > your changes. Start|All Programs|Accessories| Right click Windows
> > Explorer| Run as...
>
> I had high hopes you had the secret, but I've tried that.  On my XP
> system, right-clicking things in the Start menu (including
> exactly what
> you suggested above) does not bring up any menu at all, let alone one
> with a Run as... option.
>
> Is it supposed to work as you describe in XP?  If I had that
> ability, it would help.

On a fairly basic install of Windows XP Professional SP2, logged on with a 
limited account I get a menu when I right click on menu item in the Start menu. 
If you do not, you might be able to enable the menu by: right click Start 
menu|Properties|Start Menu tab|Customize...|Advanced tab|Enable dragging and 
dropping.

Having said that I have to admit that I can't get Windows Explorer to start 
when I try to Run as... an account with Admin permissions. However Command 
Prompt does work, as does j602.
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Re: [Jgeneral] J602 available

[Bill Harris]

"Eric Iverson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Again, I wonder why people install J in "program files". How do the 
> advantages weigh against the disadvantages?

Eric,

Perhaps the easy answer is "ignorance": I don't know where else to put
things.  I was "brought up" on HP-UX (well, if you don't count PAM-D,
MPE3000, GS-OS, and a few others) and I got used to executables being in
a somewhat limited set of places.

When I first got a PC, I ended up with executables scattered all over
the place, many of them in c: and others hiding down some directory
tree.  After a while (esp. with .ini files and the like cluttering up c:
and with having to remember or look up where I had stuffed various
obscure programs), I decided a bit of organization was in order.  I
noticed that Windows executables tended to get put in Program Files, and
so I followed suit.

Up until now, that hasn't created any visible problems for me except for
the @($*& space in the name.  That's why I have a select few programs
(Emacs and cygwin come to mind) still in c: and everything else (I
think) in Program Files.

  <*>

That brings up a related problem: is there a summary of good practices
for managing associated J files?  I like that you've moved ~user out of
the J directory for several reasons, but I do have to modify my backup
scripts to find j602-user (I was backing up My Documents plus a few
other specific files, and this is now another one to grab).

My problem is that I now have directories in Program Files for j406,
j503a, j504, j601, and j602.  "One of these days" I promise myself I'll
go through and move older scripts to the latest version, fixing any
problems along the way, but that one day never seems to get here in
general.  Thus I don't delete an older released J engine just in case I
need it, and I don't blindly move the contents of the user directory
from one version to the next without good testing on my part.  As you
can guess, these are mostly programs I use on somewhat rare occasion,
not production programs I would have fixed at the upgrade.  

If J didn't evolve, I'd suggest just having a j-user directory, not
j602-user, but I realize that various changes over the versions have
made such an approach risky.  I've in effect done that on some programs,
as I've stored certain J scripts with the project I've been working on
at the time instead of in ~user, and I probably haven't always
documented the J version such scripts were last known to run on.

Suggestions as to what others do?

Thanks,

Bill
-- 
Bill Harris  http://facilitatedsystems.com/weblog/
Facilitated Systems  Everett, WA 98208 USA
http://facilitatedsystems.com/  phone: +1 425 337-5541
--
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Re: [Jgeneral] J602 available

[Eric Iverson]

Your limited account is really limited and can't be bumped up to admin by 
the menu 'run as administrator'. There may be an option for your account 
that you could turn on that would enable the 'run as admin' but I am not 
sure. If not, you will have to log on to a admin account to run pacman.


Or you could reinstall as a single user install in your home folder and 
avoid the 'program files' problem entirely.


- Original Message - 
From: "Bill Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "General forum" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Jgeneral] J602 available



"Sherlock, Ric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:


This is the intended process. To bypass issues with the Virtual Store
in Vista, Pacman checks to see if it write access to
\bin. If not it won't run Package Manager. See the thread
<http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/beta/2008-February/003069.html>


Ric,

Thanks.  It didn't solve my problem, but I understand a bit better.


I agree that would be nicer. I don't think it would be possible to use
Package Manager online, but it might be possible to open Package
Manager using the local catalog offline. That would let you check
which addons you have installed and what versions as well as access
the Info button etc.


Anything like that to see what I had, what versions I had, and what Info
had to say about them would be nice.  It'd be even nicer if it would
also at least tell me which packages were out of date so I could decide
if it's worth becoming administrator (oh, for su or sudo).


I think you are using XP. In which case you should be able to run an
Explorer session or Command prompt as another (Admin) user and make
your changes. Start|All Programs|Accessories| Right click Windows
Explorer| Run as...


Good assumption.

I had high hopes you had the secret, but I've tried that.  On my XP
system, right-clicking things in the Start menu (including exactly what
you suggested above) does not bring up any menu at all, let alone one
with a Run as... option.

Is it supposed to work as you describe in XP?  If I had that ability, it
would help.  Right now, I have to open Windows Explorer, navigate to
j.exe or whatever program I want to run, and then Run as   That's
slow, and it's even slower with things such as Windows Explorer because
I suspect that's not in Program Files but somewhere in Windows that I'd
have to go find.

Thanks,

Bill
--
Bill Harris  http://facilitatedsystems.com/weblog/
Facilitated Systems  Everett, WA 98208 USA
http://facilitatedsystems.com/  phone: +1 425 337-5541
--
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Re: [Jgeneral] J602 available

[Eric Iverson]

To run pacman to update files in a protected folder such as Program Files 
you need to have permission. You may be able to right click the J icon and 
select 'Run as Administrator'. Or you may have to actually log on as an 
admin account an run J there as admin to run pacman.


Running XP on a limited account is good practice. This is a little less 
necessary on Vista as accounts are by default limited, but can fairly easily 
and visibly boosted to admin when required.


Again, I wonder why people install J in "program files". How do the 
advantages weigh against the disadvantages?


- Original Message - 
From: "Bill Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "General forum" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Jgeneral] J602 available


-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

"Eric Iverson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:


J602 is available.


I just took a moment to install.  Since installing J601, I've followed
MS's recommendations and converted my account to a limited account
status, adding another account with admin privileges.  When I ran the J
installer, I ran it as that administrator, because I wanted to install
in c:Program Files/J602.  That seemed to work; I have a working J602.

What didn't work was Pacman.  While in J601 I could run Pacman out of my
current J session, J602 complains I need to become an admin.

I quit J602 and ran j.exe as admin.  That seems to work, but is that the
intended process?  I cant' find anything that indicates others have run
into this.

One disadvantage is that Pacman offers the Info button, which does make
it easy to find the JWiki page corresponding to a particular package
quickly.  While I can perhaps understand not wanting to run Pacman as a
limited user, it would be nice to be able to open Pacman, see what's
installed, and read the Info pages and have Pacman only refuse when you
try to update or install something.

One other small installation suggestion: some installers ask in which
group one wants to place the start shortcut.  J602 didn't, and so I'll
go back and move it to my Programming group the next time I am logged in
as an admin /and/ I happen to think of it (shutting down 14 windows,
when one of those is Emacs with umpteen windows, isn't a
spur-of-the-moment thing, and I obviously can't make such a change as a
limited user).

Other than that, it was a simple process.

Thanks,

Bill
- -- 
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Facilitated Systems  Everett, WA 98208 USA
http://facilitatedsystems.com/  phone: +1 425 337-5541
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Re: [Jgeneral] J602 available

[Rich Talley]

You might find this useful:

"Sudo for Windows (sudowin) allows authorized users to launch processes with
elevated privileges using their own passphrase. Unlike the runas command,
Sudo for Windows preserves the user's profile and ownership of created
objects."

http://sourceforge.net/projects/sudowin/

Rich

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Bill Harris <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> "Sherlock, Ric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > This is the intended process. To bypass issues with the Virtual Store
> > in Vista, Pacman checks to see if it write access to
> > \bin. If not it won't run Package Manager. See the thread
> > 
>
> Ric,
>
> Thanks.  It didn't solve my problem, but I understand a bit better.
>
> > I agree that would be nicer. I don't think it would be possible to use
> > Package Manager online, but it might be possible to open Package
> > Manager using the local catalog offline. That would let you check
> > which addons you have installed and what versions as well as access
> > the Info button etc.
>
> Anything like that to see what I had, what versions I had, and what Info
> had to say about them would be nice.  It'd be even nicer if it would
> also at least tell me which packages were out of date so I could decide
> if it's worth becoming administrator (oh, for su or sudo).
>
> > I think you are using XP. In which case you should be able to run an
> > Explorer session or Command prompt as another (Admin) user and make
> > your changes. Start|All Programs|Accessories| Right click Windows
> > Explorer| Run as...
>
> Good assumption.
>
> I had high hopes you had the secret, but I've tried that.  On my XP
> system, right-clicking things in the Start menu (including exactly what
> you suggested above) does not bring up any menu at all, let alone one
> with a Run as... option.
>
> Is it supposed to work as you describe in XP?  If I had that ability, it
> would help.  Right now, I have to open Windows Explorer, navigate to
> j.exe or whatever program I want to run, and then Run as   That's
> slow, and it's even slower with things such as Windows Explorer because
> I suspect that's not in Program Files but somewhere in Windows that I'd
> have to go find.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
> --
> Bill Harris  http://facilitatedsystems.com/weblog/
> Facilitated Systems  Everett, WA 98208 USA
> http://facilitatedsystems.com/  phone: +1 425 337-5541
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jgeneral] J602 available

[Bill Harris]

"Sherlock, Ric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> This is the intended process. To bypass issues with the Virtual Store
> in Vista, Pacman checks to see if it write access to
> \bin. If not it won't run Package Manager. See the thread
> 

Ric,

Thanks.  It didn't solve my problem, but I understand a bit better.

> I agree that would be nicer. I don't think it would be possible to use
> Package Manager online, but it might be possible to open Package
> Manager using the local catalog offline. That would let you check
> which addons you have installed and what versions as well as access
> the Info button etc.

Anything like that to see what I had, what versions I had, and what Info
had to say about them would be nice.  It'd be even nicer if it would
also at least tell me which packages were out of date so I could decide
if it's worth becoming administrator (oh, for su or sudo).

> I think you are using XP. In which case you should be able to run an
> Explorer session or Command prompt as another (Admin) user and make
> your changes. Start|All Programs|Accessories| Right click Windows
> Explorer| Run as...

Good assumption.

I had high hopes you had the secret, but I've tried that.  On my XP
system, right-clicking things in the Start menu (including exactly what
you suggested above) does not bring up any menu at all, let alone one
with a Run as... option.

Is it supposed to work as you describe in XP?  If I had that ability, it
would help.  Right now, I have to open Windows Explorer, navigate to
j.exe or whatever program I want to run, and then Run as   That's
slow, and it's even slower with things such as Windows Explorer because
I suspect that's not in Program Files but somewhere in Windows that I'd
have to go find.

Thanks,

Bill
-- 
Bill Harris  http://facilitatedsystems.com/weblog/
Facilitated Systems  Everett, WA 98208 USA
http://facilitatedsystems.com/  phone: +1 425 337-5541
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jgeneral] J602 available

[Bill Harris]

Dan Bron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Can you not simply "switch users" rather than "log off"?  I do this
> all the time on my Windows XP box.

Dan,

There's some program I use regularly, I forget which, that doesn't like
'switch users'.  I found that out in the early days of using XP and so
disabled it.

> I've also been known to start command prompts with "run as..."
> administrator.  

I presume you mean something like 

runas nameofadminaccount j.exe

assuming j.exe is in PATH or I use a FQFN.  I try that, and bash returns
a new line and then a command prompt.  I must be doing something wrong.

> A little more involved, but worth it IMO, is to install cygwin and its
> SSH daemon (service), then set up some keys, along with PuTTY and
> Pageant.  Then you can just putty into your own system as an admin.
> No passwords or anything.

I run cygwin and PuTTY.  I'll have to look to see if I'm currently
running sshd, and I did't know Pageant.  I'll have to check that out
when I get some time (not today unless I take a break I shouldn't take).
Thanks.

Bill
-- 
Bill Harris  http://facilitatedsystems.com/weblog/
Facilitated Systems  Everett, WA 98208 USA
http://facilitatedsystems.com/  phone: +1 425 337-5541
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jgeneral] J602 available

[Björn Helgason]

Vista is more strict on who is allowed to do what to the folders

2008/3/12, Bill Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> "Björn Helgason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > You do not say what system you are using.
> > There is a difference between Vista and XP
>
>
> Sorry.  XP SP2, FWIW.
>
>
> Bill
> --
> Bill Harris  http://facilitatedsystems.com/weblog/
> Facilitated Systems  Everett, WA 98208 USA
> http://facilitatedsystems.com/  phone: +1 425 337-5541
>
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>



-- 
Björn Helgason, Verkfræðingur
Fugl&Fiskur ehf, Þerneyjarsund 23, Box 127
801 Grímsnes ,t-póst: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype: gosiminn, gsm: +3546985532
Landslags og skrúðgarðagerð, gröfuþjónusta
http://groups.google.com/group/J-Programming


Tæknikunnátta höndlar hið flókna, sköpunargáfa er meistari einfaldleikans

góður kennari getur stigið á tær án þess að glansinn fari af skónum
  /|_  .---.
 ,'  .\  /  | Með léttri lund verður|
 ,--'_,'   | Dagurinn í dag |
/   /   | Enn betri en gærdagurinn  |
   (   -.  |`---'
   | ) |(\_ _/)
  (`-.  '--.)   (='.'=)
   `. )'(")_(")
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jgeneral] J602 available

[Bill Harris]

"Björn Helgason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> You do not say what system you are using.
> There is a difference between Vista and XP

Sorry.  XP SP2, FWIW.

Bill
-- 
Bill Harris  http://facilitatedsystems.com/weblog/
Facilitated Systems  Everett, WA 98208 USA
http://facilitatedsystems.com/  phone: +1 425 337-5541
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

RE: [Jgeneral] J602 available

[Sherlock, Ric]

---Bill Harris wrote:
> I just took a moment to install.  Since installing J601, I've followed
> MS's recommendations and converted my account to a limited account
> status, adding another account with admin privileges.  When I
> ran the J
> installer, I ran it as that administrator, because I wanted to install
> in c:Program Files/J602.  That seemed to work; I have a working J602.
>
> What didn't work was Pacman.  While in J601 I could run
> Pacman out of my
> current J session, J602 complains I need to become an admin.
>
> I quit J602 and ran j.exe as admin.  That seems to work, but
> is that the
> intended process?  I cant' find anything that indicates
> others have run
> into this.

This is the intended process. To bypass issues with the Virtual Store in Vista, 
Pacman checks to see if it write access to \bin. If not it won't 
run Package Manager. See the thread


> One disadvantage is that Pacman offers the Info button, which
> does make
> it easy to find the JWiki page corresponding to a particular package
> quickly.  While I can perhaps understand not wanting to run
> Pacman as a
> limited user, it would be nice to be able to open Pacman, see what's
> installed, and read the Info pages and have Pacman only
> refuse when you
> try to update or install something.

I agree that would be nicer. I don't think it would be possible to use Package 
Manager online, but it might be possible to open Package Manager using the 
local catalog offline. That would let you check which addons you have installed 
and what versions as well as access the Info button etc.

> One other small installation suggestion: some installers ask in which
> group one wants to place the start shortcut.  J602 didn't, and so I'll
> go back and move it to my Programming group the next time I
> am logged in
> as an admin /and/ I happen to think of it (shutting down 14 windows,
> when one of those is Emacs with umpteen windows, isn't a
> spur-of-the-moment thing, and I obviously can't make such a
> change as a
> limited user).

I think you are using XP. In which case you should be able to run an Explorer 
session or Command prompt as another (Admin) user and make your changes. 
Start|All Programs|Accessories| Right click Windows Explorer| Run as...
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jgeneral] J602 available

[Dan Bron]

Bill Harris wrote:
>  shutting down 14 windows, when one of those is Emacs with 
> umpteen windows, isn't a  spur-of-the-moment thing, and I obvious

Can you not simply "switch users" rather than "log off"?  I do this all the 
time on my Windows XP box.

I've also been known to start command prompts with "run as..." administrator. 

A little more involved, but worth it IMO, is to install cygwin and its SSH 
daemon (service), then set up some keys, along with PuTTY and Pageant.  Then 
you can just putty into your own system as an admin.  No passwords or anything.

-Dan
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jgeneral] J602 available

[Björn Helgason]

You do not say what system you are using.
There is a difference between Vista and XP

2008/3/12, Bill Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> "Eric Iverson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > J602 is available.
>
> I just took a moment to install.  Since installing J601, I've followed
> MS's recommendations and converted my account to a limited account
> status, adding another account with admin privileges.  When I ran the J
> installer, I ran it as that administrator, because I wanted to install
> in c:Program Files/J602.  That seemed to work; I have a working J602.
>
> What didn't work was Pacman.  While in J601 I could run Pacman out of my
> current J session, J602 complains I need to become an admin.
>
> I quit J602 and ran j.exe as admin.  That seems to work, but is that the
> intended process?  I cant' find anything that indicates others have run
> into this.
>
> One disadvantage is that Pacman offers the Info button, which does make
> it easy to find the JWiki page corresponding to a particular package
> quickly.  While I can perhaps understand not wanting to run Pacman as a
> limited user, it would be nice to be able to open Pacman, see what's
> installed, and read the Info pages and have Pacman only refuse when you
> try to update or install something.
>
> One other small installation suggestion: some installers ask in which
> group one wants to place the start shortcut.  J602 didn't, and so I'll
> go back and move it to my Programming group the next time I am logged in
> as an admin /and/ I happen to think of it (shutting down 14 windows,
> when one of those is Emacs with umpteen windows, isn't a
> spur-of-the-moment thing, and I obviously can't make such a change as a
> limited user).
>
> Other than that, it was a simple process.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
> - --
> Bill Harris  http://facilitatedsystems.com/weblog/
> Facilitated Systems  Everett, WA 98208 USA
> http://facilitatedsystems.com/  phone: +1 425 337-5541
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)
> Comment: For more information, see http://www.gnupg.org
>
> iD8DBQFH2D3q3J3HaQTDvd8RApR1AJ0WAYalVd1StzU0UC6fxKBZZsNAOQCeLaQR
> uzyVmQ7AW5g677/mixhha1w=
> =e5tq
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
> --
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>



-- 
Björn Helgason, Verkfræðingur
Fugl&Fiskur ehf, Þerneyjarsund 23, Box 127
801 Grímsnes ,t-póst: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype: gosiminn, gsm: +3546985532
Landslags og skrúðgarðagerð, gröfuþjónusta
http://groups.google.com/group/J-Programming


Tæknikunnátta höndlar hið flókna, sköpunargáfa er meistari einfaldleikans

góður kennari getur stigið á tær án þess að glansinn fari af skónum
  /|_  .---.
 ,'  .\  /  | Með léttri lund verður|
 ,--'_,'   | Dagurinn í dag |
/   /   | Enn betri en gærdagurinn  |
   (   -.  |`---'
   | ) |(\_ _/)
  (`-.  '--.)   (='.'=)
   `. )'(")_(")
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

Re: [Jgeneral] J602 available

[Bill Harris]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

"Eric Iverson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> J602 is available.

I just took a moment to install.  Since installing J601, I've followed
MS's recommendations and converted my account to a limited account
status, adding another account with admin privileges.  When I ran the J
installer, I ran it as that administrator, because I wanted to install
in c:Program Files/J602.  That seemed to work; I have a working J602.

What didn't work was Pacman.  While in J601 I could run Pacman out of my
current J session, J602 complains I need to become an admin.

I quit J602 and ran j.exe as admin.  That seems to work, but is that the
intended process?  I cant' find anything that indicates others have run
into this.

One disadvantage is that Pacman offers the Info button, which does make
it easy to find the JWiki page corresponding to a particular package
quickly.  While I can perhaps understand not wanting to run Pacman as a
limited user, it would be nice to be able to open Pacman, see what's
installed, and read the Info pages and have Pacman only refuse when you
try to update or install something.

One other small installation suggestion: some installers ask in which
group one wants to place the start shortcut.  J602 didn't, and so I'll
go back and move it to my Programming group the next time I am logged in
as an admin /and/ I happen to think of it (shutting down 14 windows,
when one of those is Emacs with umpteen windows, isn't a
spur-of-the-moment thing, and I obviously can't make such a change as a
limited user).

Other than that, it was a simple process.

Thanks,

Bill
- -- 
Bill Harris  http://facilitatedsystems.com/weblog/
Facilitated Systems  Everett, WA 98208 USA
http://facilitatedsystems.com/  phone: +1 425 337-5541
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)
Comment: For more information, see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQFH2D3q3J3HaQTDvd8RApR1AJ0WAYalVd1StzU0UC6fxKBZZsNAOQCeLaQR
uzyVmQ7AW5g677/mixhha1w=
=e5tq
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

[Jgeneral] J602 available

[Eric Iverson]

J602 is available.

Please move to this release as soon as possible.

Installation is improved. Install it and see Help > Release Highlights for 
an overview of changes.


Forum discussions should move promptly to assume J602 as this makes most 
efficient use of J community resources. Discussions are more effective 
without additional complications of which J version is involved. Lingering 
too long with older releases, without good reason, is not in J's best 
interest.





--
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