Re: [Jgeneral] Welcome message for session?
Menu edit|configure|launch pad, and a very brief documentation inside. Втр, 15 Фев 2011, Brian Schott писал(а): > Chris, > > I could not find any documentation for adding scripts to the Launch > Pad menu. Help, please. > > Is this a clue: > http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Scripts/Task?highlight=%28pad%29%7C%28launch%29 > > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 6:59 AM, chris burke wrote: > > > > For this, I suggest that you use the Run|Launch Pad menu. > > -- > (B=) > -- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm -- regards, GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] Welcome message for session?
I also find J's silence upon startup a bit disconcerting. Maybe because its prompt is just whitespace? Anyway, I have a utility called printPrompt, which prints out welcome message consisting of the J version, timestamp, and a random entry from the Phrasebook, e.g. New J (v602a) session started on 2011-02-15 at 09:18:18 m7 =: 3&A. NB. Rotate last three to the left The version and timestamp come in handy when I have multiple J sessions going, or a multi-day session, or when I save an IJX log and revisit it later. The random phrase keeps it interesting, and sometimes will teach me something cool, or remind me of an tool I've neglected. In general, the prompt is a positive indication that J is ready to talk to me. I call printPrompt'' at the very end of my profile.ijs . -Dan -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] Welcome message for session?
Chris, I could not find any documentation for adding scripts to the Launch Pad menu. Help, please. Is this a clue: http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Scripts/Task?highlight=%28pad%29%7C%28launch%29 On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 6:59 AM, chris burke wrote: > > For this, I suggest that you use the Run|Launch Pad menu. -- (B=) -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] Welcome message for session?
Along these lines there is a question about how to get info out by creating a rss feed in the stile of a random cookie sending out some tidbits and news. Possibly even several channels with different tastes and interests. It could be an option in JHS to receive a rss and place it on a page called news. You could also mix it with rss from other sources. Similarly there might be a tool in GTK to receive the same rss as some sort of popups or forms. It might even be connected to the forums and show summaries or whole messages. 2011/2/15 Ian Clark > Like all good things, it can be overdone. > > > 2011/2/15 Björn Helgason : > > I think the idea of some info at the start has its merits. > > I get this kind of info about some Linux features in some apps. > > Tool tips can be interesting even if most of the time they are not. > > It is something like in J with demos/labs/helps that you may think you > have > > seen it all. > > Then visiting it you see there are a lot of new stuff there. > > Also revisiting a something you tried a long time ago and either > > misunderstood or had no need for may be good. > > Util that points toward things of interest like tool tips are hard to do > > well. > > > > 2011/2/15 Ian Clark > > > >> Thanks, Ric. That's just the explanation I needed. > >> > >> If I can have a noun (as I do now with j602, called PROMPTS) then I'd > >> like to maintain it in startup.ijs rather than base.cfg, because I'm > >> always editing startup.ijs (it's the first line in my PROMPTS). But if > >> I can have only one out of noun/verb then I'd say verb for its added > >> flexibility. > >> > >> But hey, it's no big deal -- just one more alias on my desktop: > "base.cfg". > >> > >> As for the need for welcome messages, I'd say (from extensive HF > >> laboratory investigation of novice behaviour in the 80s -- which may > >> no longer pertain for a generation brought up on bad HF design) that > >> the requirement is a negative one: not to be faced with a blank screen > >> (especially one with the cryptic title "Term") without some context > >> being cued. Eg: 'enter something in J:' > >> > >> Recall that not 1 but 2 windows appear when you click the green J: a > >> unix window too (which certainly does furnish context, most > >> commendably too). It almost shouts at you: "type here..." > >> > >> I would also warn against generalising from one's own usage > >> preference. We all know features that are so badly designed the first > >> thing we do is turn them off. Talking paperclips, anyone? And -- heck > >> -- who needs the Accessibility options? > >> > >> But even if one's sympathies lie with one's expert audience, there's a > >> case for spoonfeeding the novice user. > >> > >> My own requirement may not be shared by many. I use J for several > >> regular routine tasks, and it helps me to have a prompt of the chief > >> tasks as re-inputtable lines. A wizzkid would be ashamed to use what > >> he'd see as a crutch... but I prefer to think of it as the trim-wheel, > >> when you fly a light aircraft. Pilots get no reward for saying "hey -- > >> who needs the trim-wheel?" > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:39 AM, Ric Sherlock > wrote: > >> > My initial post at the start of this thread was more about how to > >> > create a cross-JFE mechanism for displaying a default Welcome message > >> > on startup - along with a way to turn it off. If done right it will > >> > also allow users/developers to create their own custom startup > >> > message. > >> > > >> > As I see it the ShowWelcome in base.cfg is required so that the users > >> > can turn off the default welcome message that each JFE will provide. > >> > Setting a Welcome noun to empty in startup.ijs won't help if the JFE > >> > (that loads after startup.ijs) then repopulates it. > >> > > >> > Of course there may be other models that work too, including setting > >> > the welcome message or verb in a .cfg file as Chris suggests. > >> > > >> > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Ian Clark > >> wrote: > >> >> Basically sounds ok. > >> >> > >> >> I was assuming user would create Welcome in _z_ (or _base_?) not _j_ > , > >> >> but I don't know if that's better, apart from a gut-feel that system > >> >> classes ought to remain untouched. > >> >> > >> >> Must Welcome be a noun, or can it be a verb instead? Might both be > >> >> allowed (whence different names would be needed?) > >> >> > >> >> Don't fully grasp the need for ShowWelcome in base.cfg. The welcome > >> >> msg can be disabled altogether by having startup.ijs set it to empty. > >> >> What's gained from having the user set/check a cfg as well as > >> >> startup.ijs -- which is effectively a user profile too? Are we > >> >> catering here for an administrator who needs the power to deny > >> >> facilities to the user? AFAICS the only reason for this facility is > >> >> because startup.ijs gets executed "too early" in j701 and the > >> >> architecture won't allow it to be executed any later. > >>
Re: [Jgeneral] Welcome message for session?
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 7:24 PM, Ian Clark wrote: ... > My own requirement may not be shared by many. I use J for several > regular routine tasks, and it helps me to have a prompt of the chief > tasks as re-inputtable lines. A wizzkid would be ashamed to use what > he'd see as a crutch... but I prefer to think of it as the trim-wheel, > when you fly a light aircraft. Pilots get no reward for saying "hey -- > who needs the trim-wheel?" For this, I suggest that you use the Run|Launch Pad menu. -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] Welcome message for session?
Like all good things, it can be overdone. 2011/2/15 Björn Helgason : > I think the idea of some info at the start has its merits. > I get this kind of info about some Linux features in some apps. > Tool tips can be interesting even if most of the time they are not. > It is something like in J with demos/labs/helps that you may think you have > seen it all. > Then visiting it you see there are a lot of new stuff there. > Also revisiting a something you tried a long time ago and either > misunderstood or had no need for may be good. > Util that points toward things of interest like tool tips are hard to do > well. > > 2011/2/15 Ian Clark > >> Thanks, Ric. That's just the explanation I needed. >> >> If I can have a noun (as I do now with j602, called PROMPTS) then I'd >> like to maintain it in startup.ijs rather than base.cfg, because I'm >> always editing startup.ijs (it's the first line in my PROMPTS). But if >> I can have only one out of noun/verb then I'd say verb for its added >> flexibility. >> >> But hey, it's no big deal -- just one more alias on my desktop: "base.cfg". >> >> As for the need for welcome messages, I'd say (from extensive HF >> laboratory investigation of novice behaviour in the 80s -- which may >> no longer pertain for a generation brought up on bad HF design) that >> the requirement is a negative one: not to be faced with a blank screen >> (especially one with the cryptic title "Term") without some context >> being cued. Eg: 'enter something in J:' >> >> Recall that not 1 but 2 windows appear when you click the green J: a >> unix window too (which certainly does furnish context, most >> commendably too). It almost shouts at you: "type here..." >> >> I would also warn against generalising from one's own usage >> preference. We all know features that are so badly designed the first >> thing we do is turn them off. Talking paperclips, anyone? And -- heck >> -- who needs the Accessibility options? >> >> But even if one's sympathies lie with one's expert audience, there's a >> case for spoonfeeding the novice user. >> >> My own requirement may not be shared by many. I use J for several >> regular routine tasks, and it helps me to have a prompt of the chief >> tasks as re-inputtable lines. A wizzkid would be ashamed to use what >> he'd see as a crutch... but I prefer to think of it as the trim-wheel, >> when you fly a light aircraft. Pilots get no reward for saying "hey -- >> who needs the trim-wheel?" >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:39 AM, Ric Sherlock wrote: >> > My initial post at the start of this thread was more about how to >> > create a cross-JFE mechanism for displaying a default Welcome message >> > on startup - along with a way to turn it off. If done right it will >> > also allow users/developers to create their own custom startup >> > message. >> > >> > As I see it the ShowWelcome in base.cfg is required so that the users >> > can turn off the default welcome message that each JFE will provide. >> > Setting a Welcome noun to empty in startup.ijs won't help if the JFE >> > (that loads after startup.ijs) then repopulates it. >> > >> > Of course there may be other models that work too, including setting >> > the welcome message or verb in a .cfg file as Chris suggests. >> > >> > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Ian Clark >> wrote: >> >> Basically sounds ok. >> >> >> >> I was assuming user would create Welcome in _z_ (or _base_?) not _j_ , >> >> but I don't know if that's better, apart from a gut-feel that system >> >> classes ought to remain untouched. >> >> >> >> Must Welcome be a noun, or can it be a verb instead? Might both be >> >> allowed (whence different names would be needed?) >> >> >> >> Don't fully grasp the need for ShowWelcome in base.cfg. The welcome >> >> msg can be disabled altogether by having startup.ijs set it to empty. >> >> What's gained from having the user set/check a cfg as well as >> >> startup.ijs -- which is effectively a user profile too? Are we >> >> catering here for an administrator who needs the power to deny >> >> facilities to the user? AFAICS the only reason for this facility is >> >> because startup.ijs gets executed "too early" in j701 and the >> >> architecture won't allow it to be executed any later. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Ric Sherlock >> wrote: >> >>> I think startup.ijs could still do the job. How does this sound? >> >>> >> >>> * User creates custom Welcome_j_ in their startup.ijs. >> >>> * JFE creates Welcome_j_ (if it doesn't already exist) with its >> >>> default message) >> >>> * Welcome_j_ is "smoutput"ed to session if ShowWelcome (in base.cfg) >> >>> is set to 1. >> >>> >> >>> To get this to work across JFEs there needs to be some agreement that >> >>> it is desirable (or at least no disagreement that it is undesirable). >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Ian Clark >> wrote: >> Got it to work by adding 2 lines to the bottom of verb: main in: >> ~addons/ide/gtk/gtk.ijs >>
Re: [Jgeneral] Welcome message for session?
I think the idea of some info at the start has its merits. I get this kind of info about some Linux features in some apps. Tool tips can be interesting even if most of the time they are not. It is something like in J with demos/labs/helps that you may think you have seen it all. Then visiting it you see there are a lot of new stuff there. Also revisiting a something you tried a long time ago and either misunderstood or had no need for may be good. Util that points toward things of interest like tool tips are hard to do well. 2011/2/15 Ian Clark > Thanks, Ric. That's just the explanation I needed. > > If I can have a noun (as I do now with j602, called PROMPTS) then I'd > like to maintain it in startup.ijs rather than base.cfg, because I'm > always editing startup.ijs (it's the first line in my PROMPTS). But if > I can have only one out of noun/verb then I'd say verb for its added > flexibility. > > But hey, it's no big deal -- just one more alias on my desktop: "base.cfg". > > As for the need for welcome messages, I'd say (from extensive HF > laboratory investigation of novice behaviour in the 80s -- which may > no longer pertain for a generation brought up on bad HF design) that > the requirement is a negative one: not to be faced with a blank screen > (especially one with the cryptic title "Term") without some context > being cued. Eg: 'enter something in J:' > > Recall that not 1 but 2 windows appear when you click the green J: a > unix window too (which certainly does furnish context, most > commendably too). It almost shouts at you: "type here..." > > I would also warn against generalising from one's own usage > preference. We all know features that are so badly designed the first > thing we do is turn them off. Talking paperclips, anyone? And -- heck > -- who needs the Accessibility options? > > But even if one's sympathies lie with one's expert audience, there's a > case for spoonfeeding the novice user. > > My own requirement may not be shared by many. I use J for several > regular routine tasks, and it helps me to have a prompt of the chief > tasks as re-inputtable lines. A wizzkid would be ashamed to use what > he'd see as a crutch... but I prefer to think of it as the trim-wheel, > when you fly a light aircraft. Pilots get no reward for saying "hey -- > who needs the trim-wheel?" > > > > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:39 AM, Ric Sherlock wrote: > > My initial post at the start of this thread was more about how to > > create a cross-JFE mechanism for displaying a default Welcome message > > on startup - along with a way to turn it off. If done right it will > > also allow users/developers to create their own custom startup > > message. > > > > As I see it the ShowWelcome in base.cfg is required so that the users > > can turn off the default welcome message that each JFE will provide. > > Setting a Welcome noun to empty in startup.ijs won't help if the JFE > > (that loads after startup.ijs) then repopulates it. > > > > Of course there may be other models that work too, including setting > > the welcome message or verb in a .cfg file as Chris suggests. > > > > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Ian Clark > wrote: > >> Basically sounds ok. > >> > >> I was assuming user would create Welcome in _z_ (or _base_?) not _j_ , > >> but I don't know if that's better, apart from a gut-feel that system > >> classes ought to remain untouched. > >> > >> Must Welcome be a noun, or can it be a verb instead? Might both be > >> allowed (whence different names would be needed?) > >> > >> Don't fully grasp the need for ShowWelcome in base.cfg. The welcome > >> msg can be disabled altogether by having startup.ijs set it to empty. > >> What's gained from having the user set/check a cfg as well as > >> startup.ijs -- which is effectively a user profile too? Are we > >> catering here for an administrator who needs the power to deny > >> facilities to the user? AFAICS the only reason for this facility is > >> because startup.ijs gets executed "too early" in j701 and the > >> architecture won't allow it to be executed any later. > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Ric Sherlock > wrote: > >>> I think startup.ijs could still do the job. How does this sound? > >>> > >>> * User creates custom Welcome_j_ in their startup.ijs. > >>> * JFE creates Welcome_j_ (if it doesn't already exist) with its > >>> default message) > >>> * Welcome_j_ is "smoutput"ed to session if ShowWelcome (in base.cfg) > >>> is set to 1. > >>> > >>> To get this to work across JFEs there needs to be some agreement that > >>> it is desirable (or at least no disagreement that it is undesirable). > >>> > >>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Ian Clark > wrote: > Got it to work by adding 2 lines to the bottom of verb: main in: > ~addons/ide/gtk/gtk.ijs > > main=: 3 : 0 > main_init'' > if. r=. conf_init'' do. main_quit r return. end. > if. r=. conn_init'' do. main_quit r return. end. > proj_init'' > menu
Re: [Jgeneral] Welcome message for session?
Thanks, Ric. That's just the explanation I needed. If I can have a noun (as I do now with j602, called PROMPTS) then I'd like to maintain it in startup.ijs rather than base.cfg, because I'm always editing startup.ijs (it's the first line in my PROMPTS). But if I can have only one out of noun/verb then I'd say verb for its added flexibility. But hey, it's no big deal -- just one more alias on my desktop: "base.cfg". As for the need for welcome messages, I'd say (from extensive HF laboratory investigation of novice behaviour in the 80s -- which may no longer pertain for a generation brought up on bad HF design) that the requirement is a negative one: not to be faced with a blank screen (especially one with the cryptic title "Term") without some context being cued. Eg: 'enter something in J:' Recall that not 1 but 2 windows appear when you click the green J: a unix window too (which certainly does furnish context, most commendably too). It almost shouts at you: "type here..." I would also warn against generalising from one's own usage preference. We all know features that are so badly designed the first thing we do is turn them off. Talking paperclips, anyone? And -- heck -- who needs the Accessibility options? But even if one's sympathies lie with one's expert audience, there's a case for spoonfeeding the novice user. My own requirement may not be shared by many. I use J for several regular routine tasks, and it helps me to have a prompt of the chief tasks as re-inputtable lines. A wizzkid would be ashamed to use what he'd see as a crutch... but I prefer to think of it as the trim-wheel, when you fly a light aircraft. Pilots get no reward for saying "hey -- who needs the trim-wheel?" On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:39 AM, Ric Sherlock wrote: > My initial post at the start of this thread was more about how to > create a cross-JFE mechanism for displaying a default Welcome message > on startup - along with a way to turn it off. If done right it will > also allow users/developers to create their own custom startup > message. > > As I see it the ShowWelcome in base.cfg is required so that the users > can turn off the default welcome message that each JFE will provide. > Setting a Welcome noun to empty in startup.ijs won't help if the JFE > (that loads after startup.ijs) then repopulates it. > > Of course there may be other models that work too, including setting > the welcome message or verb in a .cfg file as Chris suggests. > > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Ian Clark wrote: >> Basically sounds ok. >> >> I was assuming user would create Welcome in _z_ (or _base_?) not _j_ , >> but I don't know if that's better, apart from a gut-feel that system >> classes ought to remain untouched. >> >> Must Welcome be a noun, or can it be a verb instead? Might both be >> allowed (whence different names would be needed?) >> >> Don't fully grasp the need for ShowWelcome in base.cfg. The welcome >> msg can be disabled altogether by having startup.ijs set it to empty. >> What's gained from having the user set/check a cfg as well as >> startup.ijs -- which is effectively a user profile too? Are we >> catering here for an administrator who needs the power to deny >> facilities to the user? AFAICS the only reason for this facility is >> because startup.ijs gets executed "too early" in j701 and the >> architecture won't allow it to be executed any later. >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Ric Sherlock wrote: >>> I think startup.ijs could still do the job. How does this sound? >>> >>> * User creates custom Welcome_j_ in their startup.ijs. >>> * JFE creates Welcome_j_ (if it doesn't already exist) with its >>> default message) >>> * Welcome_j_ is "smoutput"ed to session if ShowWelcome (in base.cfg) >>> is set to 1. >>> >>> To get this to work across JFEs there needs to be some agreement that >>> it is desirable (or at least no disagreement that it is undesirable). >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Ian Clark wrote: Got it to work by adding 2 lines to the bottom of verb: main in: ~addons/ide/gtk/gtk.ijs main=: 3 : 0 main_init'' if. r=. conf_init'' do. main_quit r return. end. if. r=. conn_init'' do. main_quit r return. end. proj_init'' menu_init'' sview_init'' main_open'' main_run'' if. 3= 4!:0 <'welcome' do. welcome'' end. if. 0= 4!:0 <'WELCOME' do. smoutput WELCOME end. 0 ) Clearly this fix will only last until the next Pacman download. Unfortunately startup.ijs can't patch the target verb itself, because locale 'jgtkide' isn't yet loaded. The only locales present when startup.ijs is entered are: base ctag j jcompare jijs jregex jtask z On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:07 AM, Ian Clark wrote: > That's kinda what I guessed. Viz by modifying: main_init_jgtkide_ > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:02 AM, bill lam wrote: >> gtkide will run jfe 1 durin
Re: [Jgeneral] Welcome message for session?
Some products allow for a popup that can be turned off permanently by choosing an option. Otherwise you get a random tip about some feature in a popup each time you start the product. J could have something like that which could assist new users and telling about facilities in J. Experienced user could turn this features off and it should of course not interfere with applications and runtime applications. Users might even get access to such a tool to tell about features in a popup for their users. 2011/2/15 chris burke > Do we really need a startup message? My first reaction would be to turn it > off. > > Perhaps a better facility would be a verb that would be called after > gtkide was started. This could be defined in gtkide.cfg (default > empty), and could do anything, including output a welcome message. For > example, this would be suitable for a classroom configuration. > > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Ian Clark wrote: > > Basically sounds ok. > > > > I was assuming user would create Welcome in _z_ (or _base_?) not _j_ , > > but I don't know if that's better, apart from a gut-feel that system > > classes ought to remain untouched. > > > > Must Welcome be a noun, or can it be a verb instead? Might both be > > allowed (whence different names would be needed?) > > > > Don't fully grasp the need for ShowWelcome in base.cfg. The welcome > > msg can be disabled altogether by having startup.ijs set it to empty. > > What's gained from having the user set/check a cfg as well as > > startup.ijs -- which is effectively a user profile too? Are we > > catering here for an administrator who needs the power to deny > > facilities to the user? AFAICS the only reason for this facility is > > because startup.ijs gets executed "too early" in j701 and the > > architecture won't allow it to be executed any later. > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Ric Sherlock wrote: > >> I think startup.ijs could still do the job. How does this sound? > >> > >> * User creates custom Welcome_j_ in their startup.ijs. > >> * JFE creates Welcome_j_ (if it doesn't already exist) with its > >> default message) > >> * Welcome_j_ is "smoutput"ed to session if ShowWelcome (in base.cfg) > >> is set to 1. > >> > >> To get this to work across JFEs there needs to be some agreement that > >> it is desirable (or at least no disagreement that it is undesirable). > >> > >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Ian Clark > wrote: > >>> Got it to work by adding 2 lines to the bottom of verb: main in: > >>> ~addons/ide/gtk/gtk.ijs > >>> > >>> main=: 3 : 0 > >>> main_init'' > >>> if. r=. conf_init'' do. main_quit r return. end. > >>> if. r=. conn_init'' do. main_quit r return. end. > >>> proj_init'' > >>> menu_init'' > >>> sview_init'' > >>> main_open'' > >>> main_run'' > >>> if. 3= 4!:0 <'welcome' do. welcome'' end. > >>> if. 0= 4!:0 <'WELCOME' do. smoutput WELCOME end. > >>> 0 > >>> ) > >>> > >>> Clearly this fix will only last until the next Pacman download. > >>> > >>> Unfortunately startup.ijs can't patch the target verb itself, because > >>> locale 'jgtkide' isn't yet loaded. The only locales present when > >>> startup.ijs is entered are: > >>> base ctag jjcompare jijs jregex jtaskz > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:07 AM, Ian Clark > wrote: > That's kinda what I guessed. Viz by modifying: main_init_jgtkide_ > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:02 AM, bill lam > wrote: > > gtkide will run jfe 1 during booting and only after that will > smoutput > > redirect to Term. So that you need to put motd after that jfe. > > > > Пнд, 14 Фев 2011, Ian Clark писал(а): > >> smoutput in startup.ijs causes a message to appear in jconsole, > >> whether running JCON, JHS or JGTK. > >> (...which weakly satisfies your original request). > >> But I've only verified this for the Mac. > >> > >> bin/jgtk.command contains the text: > >> #!/bin/sh > >> "`dirname "$0"`/jconsole" gtkide > >> > >> so my guess is that by the time gtkide gets run, startup.ijs has > >> already been loaded and has had time to perform its definitions and > >> overrides. > >> So it would be up to the "gtkide" function (main_jgtkide_ ??) to > look > >> for a welcome noun or verb. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 3:23 AM, Ric Sherlock > wrote: > >> > Yes I was thinking along similar lines. > >> > > >> > Each of the JFEs could set an appropriate message in Welcome_j_. > >> > > >> > The Welcome_j_ non could be overwritten by the user's various > >> > startup.ijs scripts (unless this gets run before the JFE scripts - > I > >> > need to check) > >> > > >> > Depending on the setting of ShowWelcome in ~config/base.cfg the > >> > Welcome_j_ noun gets displayed in the session (jconsole/Term/jijx > >> > window). > >> > > >> > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Ian Clark > wrote: > >> >> How a
Re: [Jgeneral] Welcome message for session?
One piece information that would be useful in the welcome message is what to do to download addons and how to keep J up to date. I know it's explained in the WIKI and in jsoftware.com but it wouldn't hurt to remind new users again. On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 6:39 PM, Ric Sherlock wrote: > My initial post at the start of this thread was more about how to > create a cross-JFE mechanism for displaying a default Welcome message > on startup - along with a way to turn it off. If done right it will > also allow users/developers to create their own custom startup > message. > > As I see it the ShowWelcome in base.cfg is required so that the users > can turn off the default welcome message that each JFE will provide. > Setting a Welcome noun to empty in startup.ijs won't help if the JFE > (that loads after startup.ijs) then repopulates it. > > Of course there may be other models that work too, including setting > the welcome message or verb in a .cfg file as Chris suggests. > > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Ian Clark wrote: > > Basically sounds ok. > > > > I was assuming user would create Welcome in _z_ (or _base_?) not _j_ , > > but I don't know if that's better, apart from a gut-feel that system > > classes ought to remain untouched. > > > > Must Welcome be a noun, or can it be a verb instead? Might both be > > allowed (whence different names would be needed?) > > > > Don't fully grasp the need for ShowWelcome in base.cfg. The welcome > > msg can be disabled altogether by having startup.ijs set it to empty. > > What's gained from having the user set/check a cfg as well as > > startup.ijs -- which is effectively a user profile too? Are we > > catering here for an administrator who needs the power to deny > > facilities to the user? AFAICS the only reason for this facility is > > because startup.ijs gets executed "too early" in j701 and the > > architecture won't allow it to be executed any later. > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Ric Sherlock wrote: > >> I think startup.ijs could still do the job. How does this sound? > >> > >> * User creates custom Welcome_j_ in their startup.ijs. > >> * JFE creates Welcome_j_ (if it doesn't already exist) with its > >> default message) > >> * Welcome_j_ is "smoutput"ed to session if ShowWelcome (in base.cfg) > >> is set to 1. > >> > >> To get this to work across JFEs there needs to be some agreement that > >> it is desirable (or at least no disagreement that it is undesirable). > >> > >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Ian Clark > wrote: > >>> Got it to work by adding 2 lines to the bottom of verb: main in: > >>> ~addons/ide/gtk/gtk.ijs > >>> > >>> main=: 3 : 0 > >>> main_init'' > >>> if. r=. conf_init'' do. main_quit r return. end. > >>> if. r=. conn_init'' do. main_quit r return. end. > >>> proj_init'' > >>> menu_init'' > >>> sview_init'' > >>> main_open'' > >>> main_run'' > >>> if. 3= 4!:0 <'welcome' do. welcome'' end. > >>> if. 0= 4!:0 <'WELCOME' do. smoutput WELCOME end. > >>> 0 > >>> ) > >>> > >>> Clearly this fix will only last until the next Pacman download. > >>> > >>> Unfortunately startup.ijs can't patch the target verb itself, because > >>> locale 'jgtkide' isn't yet loaded. The only locales present when > >>> startup.ijs is entered are: > >>> base ctag jjcompare jijs jregex jtaskz > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:07 AM, Ian Clark > wrote: > That's kinda what I guessed. Viz by modifying: main_init_jgtkide_ > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:02 AM, bill lam > wrote: > > gtkide will run jfe 1 during booting and only after that will > smoutput > > redirect to Term. So that you need to put motd after that jfe. > > > > Пнд, 14 Фев 2011, Ian Clark писал(а): > >> smoutput in startup.ijs causes a message to appear in jconsole, > >> whether running JCON, JHS or JGTK. > >> (...which weakly satisfies your original request). > >> But I've only verified this for the Mac. > >> > >> bin/jgtk.command contains the text: > >> #!/bin/sh > >> "`dirname "$0"`/jconsole" gtkide > >> > >> so my guess is that by the time gtkide gets run, startup.ijs has > >> already been loaded and has had time to perform its definitions and > >> overrides. > >> So it would be up to the "gtkide" function (main_jgtkide_ ??) to > look > >> for a welcome noun or verb. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 3:23 AM, Ric Sherlock > wrote: > >> > Yes I was thinking along similar lines. > >> > > >> > Each of the JFEs could set an appropriate message in Welcome_j_. > >> > > >> > The Welcome_j_ non could be overwritten by the user's various > >> > startup.ijs scripts (unless this gets run before the JFE scripts - > I > >> > need to check) > >> > > >> > Depending on the setting of ShowWelcome in ~config/base.cfg the > >> > Welcome_j_ noun gets displayed in the session (jconsole/Term/jijx > >> > window). >
Re: [Jgeneral] Welcome message for session?
My initial post at the start of this thread was more about how to create a cross-JFE mechanism for displaying a default Welcome message on startup - along with a way to turn it off. If done right it will also allow users/developers to create their own custom startup message. As I see it the ShowWelcome in base.cfg is required so that the users can turn off the default welcome message that each JFE will provide. Setting a Welcome noun to empty in startup.ijs won't help if the JFE (that loads after startup.ijs) then repopulates it. Of course there may be other models that work too, including setting the welcome message or verb in a .cfg file as Chris suggests. On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Ian Clark wrote: > Basically sounds ok. > > I was assuming user would create Welcome in _z_ (or _base_?) not _j_ , > but I don't know if that's better, apart from a gut-feel that system > classes ought to remain untouched. > > Must Welcome be a noun, or can it be a verb instead? Might both be > allowed (whence different names would be needed?) > > Don't fully grasp the need for ShowWelcome in base.cfg. The welcome > msg can be disabled altogether by having startup.ijs set it to empty. > What's gained from having the user set/check a cfg as well as > startup.ijs -- which is effectively a user profile too? Are we > catering here for an administrator who needs the power to deny > facilities to the user? AFAICS the only reason for this facility is > because startup.ijs gets executed "too early" in j701 and the > architecture won't allow it to be executed any later. > > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Ric Sherlock wrote: >> I think startup.ijs could still do the job. How does this sound? >> >> * User creates custom Welcome_j_ in their startup.ijs. >> * JFE creates Welcome_j_ (if it doesn't already exist) with its >> default message) >> * Welcome_j_ is "smoutput"ed to session if ShowWelcome (in base.cfg) >> is set to 1. >> >> To get this to work across JFEs there needs to be some agreement that >> it is desirable (or at least no disagreement that it is undesirable). >> >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Ian Clark wrote: >>> Got it to work by adding 2 lines to the bottom of verb: main in: >>> ~addons/ide/gtk/gtk.ijs >>> >>> main=: 3 : 0 >>> main_init'' >>> if. r=. conf_init'' do. main_quit r return. end. >>> if. r=. conn_init'' do. main_quit r return. end. >>> proj_init'' >>> menu_init'' >>> sview_init'' >>> main_open'' >>> main_run'' >>> if. 3= 4!:0 <'welcome' do. welcome'' end. >>> if. 0= 4!:0 <'WELCOME' do. smoutput WELCOME end. >>> 0 >>> ) >>> >>> Clearly this fix will only last until the next Pacman download. >>> >>> Unfortunately startup.ijs can't patch the target verb itself, because >>> locale 'jgtkide' isn't yet loaded. The only locales present when >>> startup.ijs is entered are: >>> base ctag j jcompare jijs jregex jtask z >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:07 AM, Ian Clark wrote: That's kinda what I guessed. Viz by modifying: main_init_jgtkide_ On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:02 AM, bill lam wrote: > gtkide will run jfe 1 during booting and only after that will smoutput > redirect to Term. So that you need to put motd after that jfe. > > Пнд, 14 Фев 2011, Ian Clark писал(а): >> smoutput in startup.ijs causes a message to appear in jconsole, >> whether running JCON, JHS or JGTK. >> (...which weakly satisfies your original request). >> But I've only verified this for the Mac. >> >> bin/jgtk.command contains the text: >> #!/bin/sh >> "`dirname "$0"`/jconsole" gtkide >> >> so my guess is that by the time gtkide gets run, startup.ijs has >> already been loaded and has had time to perform its definitions and >> overrides. >> So it would be up to the "gtkide" function (main_jgtkide_ ??) to look >> for a welcome noun or verb. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 3:23 AM, Ric Sherlock wrote: >> > Yes I was thinking along similar lines. >> > >> > Each of the JFEs could set an appropriate message in Welcome_j_. >> > >> > The Welcome_j_ non could be overwritten by the user's various >> > startup.ijs scripts (unless this gets run before the JFE scripts - I >> > need to check) >> > >> > Depending on the setting of ShowWelcome in ~config/base.cfg the >> > Welcome_j_ noun gets displayed in the session (jconsole/Term/jijx >> > window). >> > >> > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Ian Clark >> > wrote: >> >> How about smoutputting the noun WELCOME if it is present, and not >> >> otherwise? >> >> >> >> Maybe also executing: welcome'' >> >> >> >> The user could define or override either of these words in startup.ijs >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 2:21 AM, Ric Sherlock >> >> wrote: >> >>> I think it would be good to have a default "Welcome message" >> >>> (especially f
Re: [Jgeneral] Welcome message for session?
The question for me is who are we aiming the Out-of-the-box-experience at? If it is for existing users, then I agree that a welcome message is not necessary or desirable. However IMO we should be aiming at new users and ensuring that their early J experience is positive and constructive with the minimum amount of frustration. Existing users will be in a much better position to reconfigure their startup environment as required than new users. Existing users will need to do some one-off configuration after installation (which they probably do anyway). For me the (J front end) JFE that would most benefit from a welcome message is the jconsole. Currently when a new user starts the jconsole there is no information to say that they are in fact now in a j console session, or how to exit it, or where they might get some basic help. The GUI JFEs are not so bad because there is a menu bar users can click on to find stuff out and exit. Nevertheless I think it would be worthwhile to make this a standard mechanism that works the same way across JFEs. On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:28 PM, chris burke wrote: > Do we really need a startup message? My first reaction would be to turn it > off. > > Perhaps a better facility would be a verb that would be called after > gtkide was started. This could be defined in gtkide.cfg (default > empty), and could do anything, including output a welcome message. For > example, this would be suitable for a classroom configuration. > > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Ian Clark wrote: >> Basically sounds ok. >> >> I was assuming user would create Welcome in _z_ (or _base_?) not _j_ , >> but I don't know if that's better, apart from a gut-feel that system >> classes ought to remain untouched. >> >> Must Welcome be a noun, or can it be a verb instead? Might both be >> allowed (whence different names would be needed?) >> >> Don't fully grasp the need for ShowWelcome in base.cfg. The welcome >> msg can be disabled altogether by having startup.ijs set it to empty. >> What's gained from having the user set/check a cfg as well as >> startup.ijs -- which is effectively a user profile too? Are we >> catering here for an administrator who needs the power to deny >> facilities to the user? AFAICS the only reason for this facility is >> because startup.ijs gets executed "too early" in j701 and the >> architecture won't allow it to be executed any later. >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Ric Sherlock wrote: >>> I think startup.ijs could still do the job. How does this sound? >>> >>> * User creates custom Welcome_j_ in their startup.ijs. >>> * JFE creates Welcome_j_ (if it doesn't already exist) with its >>> default message) >>> * Welcome_j_ is "smoutput"ed to session if ShowWelcome (in base.cfg) >>> is set to 1. >>> >>> To get this to work across JFEs there needs to be some agreement that >>> it is desirable (or at least no disagreement that it is undesirable). >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Ian Clark wrote: Got it to work by adding 2 lines to the bottom of verb: main in: ~addons/ide/gtk/gtk.ijs main=: 3 : 0 main_init'' if. r=. conf_init'' do. main_quit r return. end. if. r=. conn_init'' do. main_quit r return. end. proj_init'' menu_init'' sview_init'' main_open'' main_run'' if. 3= 4!:0 <'welcome' do. welcome'' end. if. 0= 4!:0 <'WELCOME' do. smoutput WELCOME end. 0 ) Clearly this fix will only last until the next Pacman download. Unfortunately startup.ijs can't patch the target verb itself, because locale 'jgtkide' isn't yet loaded. The only locales present when startup.ijs is entered are: base ctag j jcompare jijs jregex jtask z On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:07 AM, Ian Clark wrote: > That's kinda what I guessed. Viz by modifying: main_init_jgtkide_ > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:02 AM, bill lam wrote: >> gtkide will run jfe 1 during booting and only after that will smoutput >> redirect to Term. So that you need to put motd after that jfe. >> >> Пнд, 14 Фев 2011, Ian Clark писал(а): >>> smoutput in startup.ijs causes a message to appear in jconsole, >>> whether running JCON, JHS or JGTK. >>> (...which weakly satisfies your original request). >>> But I've only verified this for the Mac. >>> >>> bin/jgtk.command contains the text: >>> #!/bin/sh >>> "`dirname "$0"`/jconsole" gtkide >>> >>> so my guess is that by the time gtkide gets run, startup.ijs has >>> already been loaded and has had time to perform its definitions and >>> overrides. >>> So it would be up to the "gtkide" function (main_jgtkide_ ??) to look >>> for a welcome noun or verb. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 3:23 AM, Ric Sherlock wrote: >>> > Yes I was thinking along similar lines. >>> > >>> > Each of the JFEs could set an appropriate message
Re: [Jgeneral] Welcome message for session?
Do we really need a startup message? My first reaction would be to turn it off. Perhaps a better facility would be a verb that would be called after gtkide was started. This could be defined in gtkide.cfg (default empty), and could do anything, including output a welcome message. For example, this would be suitable for a classroom configuration. On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 8:05 AM, Ian Clark wrote: > Basically sounds ok. > > I was assuming user would create Welcome in _z_ (or _base_?) not _j_ , > but I don't know if that's better, apart from a gut-feel that system > classes ought to remain untouched. > > Must Welcome be a noun, or can it be a verb instead? Might both be > allowed (whence different names would be needed?) > > Don't fully grasp the need for ShowWelcome in base.cfg. The welcome > msg can be disabled altogether by having startup.ijs set it to empty. > What's gained from having the user set/check a cfg as well as > startup.ijs -- which is effectively a user profile too? Are we > catering here for an administrator who needs the power to deny > facilities to the user? AFAICS the only reason for this facility is > because startup.ijs gets executed "too early" in j701 and the > architecture won't allow it to be executed any later. > > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Ric Sherlock wrote: >> I think startup.ijs could still do the job. How does this sound? >> >> * User creates custom Welcome_j_ in their startup.ijs. >> * JFE creates Welcome_j_ (if it doesn't already exist) with its >> default message) >> * Welcome_j_ is "smoutput"ed to session if ShowWelcome (in base.cfg) >> is set to 1. >> >> To get this to work across JFEs there needs to be some agreement that >> it is desirable (or at least no disagreement that it is undesirable). >> >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Ian Clark wrote: >>> Got it to work by adding 2 lines to the bottom of verb: main in: >>> ~addons/ide/gtk/gtk.ijs >>> >>> main=: 3 : 0 >>> main_init'' >>> if. r=. conf_init'' do. main_quit r return. end. >>> if. r=. conn_init'' do. main_quit r return. end. >>> proj_init'' >>> menu_init'' >>> sview_init'' >>> main_open'' >>> main_run'' >>> if. 3= 4!:0 <'welcome' do. welcome'' end. >>> if. 0= 4!:0 <'WELCOME' do. smoutput WELCOME end. >>> 0 >>> ) >>> >>> Clearly this fix will only last until the next Pacman download. >>> >>> Unfortunately startup.ijs can't patch the target verb itself, because >>> locale 'jgtkide' isn't yet loaded. The only locales present when >>> startup.ijs is entered are: >>> base ctag j jcompare jijs jregex jtask z >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:07 AM, Ian Clark wrote: That's kinda what I guessed. Viz by modifying: main_init_jgtkide_ On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:02 AM, bill lam wrote: > gtkide will run jfe 1 during booting and only after that will smoutput > redirect to Term. So that you need to put motd after that jfe. > > Пнд, 14 Фев 2011, Ian Clark писал(а): >> smoutput in startup.ijs causes a message to appear in jconsole, >> whether running JCON, JHS or JGTK. >> (...which weakly satisfies your original request). >> But I've only verified this for the Mac. >> >> bin/jgtk.command contains the text: >> #!/bin/sh >> "`dirname "$0"`/jconsole" gtkide >> >> so my guess is that by the time gtkide gets run, startup.ijs has >> already been loaded and has had time to perform its definitions and >> overrides. >> So it would be up to the "gtkide" function (main_jgtkide_ ??) to look >> for a welcome noun or verb. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 3:23 AM, Ric Sherlock wrote: >> > Yes I was thinking along similar lines. >> > >> > Each of the JFEs could set an appropriate message in Welcome_j_. >> > >> > The Welcome_j_ non could be overwritten by the user's various >> > startup.ijs scripts (unless this gets run before the JFE scripts - I >> > need to check) >> > >> > Depending on the setting of ShowWelcome in ~config/base.cfg the >> > Welcome_j_ noun gets displayed in the session (jconsole/Term/jijx >> > window). >> > >> > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Ian Clark >> > wrote: >> >> How about smoutputting the noun WELCOME if it is present, and not >> >> otherwise? >> >> >> >> Maybe also executing: welcome'' >> >> >> >> The user could define or override either of these words in startup.ijs >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 2:21 AM, Ric Sherlock >> >> wrote: >> >>> I think it would be good to have a default "Welcome message" >> >>> (especially for jconsole). >> >>> >> >>> It just needs to be something simple to let the user know they are in >> >>> a Jconsole session and how to exit. IME there is nothing worse than >> >>> knowing you are in some application, but not knowing what it is or >> >>> how >> >>> to get out of it! >> >>> >
Re: [Jgeneral] Welcome message for session?
Basically sounds ok. I was assuming user would create Welcome in _z_ (or _base_?) not _j_ , but I don't know if that's better, apart from a gut-feel that system classes ought to remain untouched. Must Welcome be a noun, or can it be a verb instead? Might both be allowed (whence different names would be needed?) Don't fully grasp the need for ShowWelcome in base.cfg. The welcome msg can be disabled altogether by having startup.ijs set it to empty. What's gained from having the user set/check a cfg as well as startup.ijs -- which is effectively a user profile too? Are we catering here for an administrator who needs the power to deny facilities to the user? AFAICS the only reason for this facility is because startup.ijs gets executed "too early" in j701 and the architecture won't allow it to be executed any later. On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Ric Sherlock wrote: > I think startup.ijs could still do the job. How does this sound? > > * User creates custom Welcome_j_ in their startup.ijs. > * JFE creates Welcome_j_ (if it doesn't already exist) with its > default message) > * Welcome_j_ is "smoutput"ed to session if ShowWelcome (in base.cfg) > is set to 1. > > To get this to work across JFEs there needs to be some agreement that > it is desirable (or at least no disagreement that it is undesirable). > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Ian Clark wrote: >> Got it to work by adding 2 lines to the bottom of verb: main in: >> ~addons/ide/gtk/gtk.ijs >> >> main=: 3 : 0 >> main_init'' >> if. r=. conf_init'' do. main_quit r return. end. >> if. r=. conn_init'' do. main_quit r return. end. >> proj_init'' >> menu_init'' >> sview_init'' >> main_open'' >> main_run'' >> if. 3= 4!:0 <'welcome' do. welcome'' end. >> if. 0= 4!:0 <'WELCOME' do. smoutput WELCOME end. >> 0 >> ) >> >> Clearly this fix will only last until the next Pacman download. >> >> Unfortunately startup.ijs can't patch the target verb itself, because >> locale 'jgtkide' isn't yet loaded. The only locales present when >> startup.ijs is entered are: >> base ctag j jcompare jijs jregex jtask z >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:07 AM, Ian Clark wrote: >>> That's kinda what I guessed. Viz by modifying: main_init_jgtkide_ >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:02 AM, bill lam wrote: gtkide will run jfe 1 during booting and only after that will smoutput redirect to Term. So that you need to put motd after that jfe. Пнд, 14 Фев 2011, Ian Clark писал(а): > smoutput in startup.ijs causes a message to appear in jconsole, > whether running JCON, JHS or JGTK. > (...which weakly satisfies your original request). > But I've only verified this for the Mac. > > bin/jgtk.command contains the text: > #!/bin/sh > "`dirname "$0"`/jconsole" gtkide > > so my guess is that by the time gtkide gets run, startup.ijs has > already been loaded and has had time to perform its definitions and > overrides. > So it would be up to the "gtkide" function (main_jgtkide_ ??) to look > for a welcome noun or verb. > > > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 3:23 AM, Ric Sherlock wrote: > > Yes I was thinking along similar lines. > > > > Each of the JFEs could set an appropriate message in Welcome_j_. > > > > The Welcome_j_ non could be overwritten by the user's various > > startup.ijs scripts (unless this gets run before the JFE scripts - I > > need to check) > > > > Depending on the setting of ShowWelcome in ~config/base.cfg the > > Welcome_j_ noun gets displayed in the session (jconsole/Term/jijx > > window). > > > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Ian Clark > > wrote: > >> How about smoutputting the noun WELCOME if it is present, and not > >> otherwise? > >> > >> Maybe also executing: welcome'' > >> > >> The user could define or override either of these words in startup.ijs > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 2:21 AM, Ric Sherlock > >> wrote: > >>> I think it would be good to have a default "Welcome message" > >>> (especially for jconsole). > >>> > >>> It just needs to be something simple to let the user know they are in > >>> a Jconsole session and how to exit. IME there is nothing worse than > >>> knowing you are in some application, but not knowing what it is or how > >>> to get out of it! > >>> > >>> Obviously the Welcome message would be able to be turned off, for > >>> example using an option in ~config/base.cfg ( ShowWelcome=: 0 ) > >>> -- > >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >>> > >> -- > >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> > > --
Re: [Jgeneral] Welcome message for session?
I think startup.ijs could still do the job. How does this sound? * User creates custom Welcome_j_ in their startup.ijs. * JFE creates Welcome_j_ (if it doesn't already exist) with its default message) * Welcome_j_ is "smoutput"ed to session if ShowWelcome (in base.cfg) is set to 1. To get this to work across JFEs there needs to be some agreement that it is desirable (or at least no disagreement that it is undesirable). On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Ian Clark wrote: > Got it to work by adding 2 lines to the bottom of verb: main in: > ~addons/ide/gtk/gtk.ijs > > main=: 3 : 0 > main_init'' > if. r=. conf_init'' do. main_quit r return. end. > if. r=. conn_init'' do. main_quit r return. end. > proj_init'' > menu_init'' > sview_init'' > main_open'' > main_run'' > if. 3= 4!:0 <'welcome' do. welcome'' end. > if. 0= 4!:0 <'WELCOME' do. smoutput WELCOME end. > 0 > ) > > Clearly this fix will only last until the next Pacman download. > > Unfortunately startup.ijs can't patch the target verb itself, because > locale 'jgtkide' isn't yet loaded. The only locales present when > startup.ijs is entered are: > base ctag j jcompare jijs jregex jtask z > > > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:07 AM, Ian Clark wrote: >> That's kinda what I guessed. Viz by modifying: main_init_jgtkide_ >> >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:02 AM, bill lam wrote: >>> gtkide will run jfe 1 during booting and only after that will smoutput >>> redirect to Term. So that you need to put motd after that jfe. >>> >>> Пнд, 14 Фев 2011, Ian Clark писал(а): smoutput in startup.ijs causes a message to appear in jconsole, whether running JCON, JHS or JGTK. (...which weakly satisfies your original request). But I've only verified this for the Mac. bin/jgtk.command contains the text: #!/bin/sh "`dirname "$0"`/jconsole" gtkide so my guess is that by the time gtkide gets run, startup.ijs has already been loaded and has had time to perform its definitions and overrides. So it would be up to the "gtkide" function (main_jgtkide_ ??) to look for a welcome noun or verb. On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 3:23 AM, Ric Sherlock wrote: > Yes I was thinking along similar lines. > > Each of the JFEs could set an appropriate message in Welcome_j_. > > The Welcome_j_ non could be overwritten by the user's various > startup.ijs scripts (unless this gets run before the JFE scripts - I > need to check) > > Depending on the setting of ShowWelcome in ~config/base.cfg the > Welcome_j_ noun gets displayed in the session (jconsole/Term/jijx > window). > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Ian Clark wrote: >> How about smoutputting the noun WELCOME if it is present, and not >> otherwise? >> >> Maybe also executing: welcome'' >> >> The user could define or override either of these words in startup.ijs >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 2:21 AM, Ric Sherlock wrote: >>> I think it would be good to have a default "Welcome message" >>> (especially for jconsole). >>> >>> It just needs to be something simple to let the user know they are in >>> a Jconsole session and how to exit. IME there is nothing worse than >>> knowing you are in some application, but not knowing what it is or how >>> to get out of it! >>> >>> Obviously the Welcome message would be able to be turned off, for >>> example using an option in ~config/base.cfg ( ShowWelcome=: 0 ) >>> -- >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>> >> -- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> > -- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>> >>> -- >>> regards, >>> >>> GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 >>> gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 >>> -- >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> > -- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] Welcome message for session?
Got it to work by adding 2 lines to the bottom of verb: main in: ~addons/ide/gtk/gtk.ijs main=: 3 : 0 main_init'' if. r=. conf_init'' do. main_quit r return. end. if. r=. conn_init'' do. main_quit r return. end. proj_init'' menu_init'' sview_init'' main_open'' main_run'' if. 3= 4!:0 <'welcome' do. welcome'' end. if. 0= 4!:0 <'WELCOME' do. smoutput WELCOME end. 0 ) Clearly this fix will only last until the next Pacman download. Unfortunately startup.ijs can't patch the target verb itself, because locale 'jgtkide' isn't yet loaded. The only locales present when startup.ijs is entered are: base ctag jjcompare jijs jregex jtaskz On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:07 AM, Ian Clark wrote: > That's kinda what I guessed. Viz by modifying: main_init_jgtkide_ > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:02 AM, bill lam wrote: >> gtkide will run jfe 1 during booting and only after that will smoutput >> redirect to Term. So that you need to put motd after that jfe. >> >> Пнд, 14 Фев 2011, Ian Clark писал(а): >>> smoutput in startup.ijs causes a message to appear in jconsole, >>> whether running JCON, JHS or JGTK. >>> (...which weakly satisfies your original request). >>> But I've only verified this for the Mac. >>> >>> bin/jgtk.command contains the text: >>> #!/bin/sh >>> "`dirname "$0"`/jconsole" gtkide >>> >>> so my guess is that by the time gtkide gets run, startup.ijs has >>> already been loaded and has had time to perform its definitions and >>> overrides. >>> So it would be up to the "gtkide" function (main_jgtkide_ ??) to look >>> for a welcome noun or verb. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 3:23 AM, Ric Sherlock wrote: >>> > Yes I was thinking along similar lines. >>> > >>> > Each of the JFEs could set an appropriate message in Welcome_j_. >>> > >>> > The Welcome_j_ non could be overwritten by the user's various >>> > startup.ijs scripts (unless this gets run before the JFE scripts - I >>> > need to check) >>> > >>> > Depending on the setting of ShowWelcome in ~config/base.cfg the >>> > Welcome_j_ noun gets displayed in the session (jconsole/Term/jijx >>> > window). >>> > >>> > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Ian Clark wrote: >>> >> How about smoutputting the noun WELCOME if it is present, and not >>> >> otherwise? >>> >> >>> >> Maybe also executing: welcome'' >>> >> >>> >> The user could define or override either of these words in startup.ijs >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 2:21 AM, Ric Sherlock wrote: >>> >>> I think it would be good to have a default "Welcome message" >>> >>> (especially for jconsole). >>> >>> >>> >>> It just needs to be something simple to let the user know they are in >>> >>> a Jconsole session and how to exit. IME there is nothing worse than >>> >>> knowing you are in some application, but not knowing what it is or how >>> >>> to get out of it! >>> >>> >>> >>> Obviously the Welcome message would be able to be turned off, for >>> >>> example using an option in ~config/base.cfg ( ShowWelcome=: 0 ) >>> >>> -- >>> >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>> >>> >>> >> -- >>> >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>> >> >>> > -- >>> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>> > >>> -- >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> -- >> regards, >> >> GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 >> gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 >> -- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] Welcome message for session?
That's kinda what I guessed. Viz by modifying: main_init_jgtkide_ On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:02 AM, bill lam wrote: > gtkide will run jfe 1 during booting and only after that will smoutput > redirect to Term. So that you need to put motd after that jfe. > > Пнд, 14 Фев 2011, Ian Clark писал(а): >> smoutput in startup.ijs causes a message to appear in jconsole, >> whether running JCON, JHS or JGTK. >> (...which weakly satisfies your original request). >> But I've only verified this for the Mac. >> >> bin/jgtk.command contains the text: >> #!/bin/sh >> "`dirname "$0"`/jconsole" gtkide >> >> so my guess is that by the time gtkide gets run, startup.ijs has >> already been loaded and has had time to perform its definitions and >> overrides. >> So it would be up to the "gtkide" function (main_jgtkide_ ??) to look >> for a welcome noun or verb. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 3:23 AM, Ric Sherlock wrote: >> > Yes I was thinking along similar lines. >> > >> > Each of the JFEs could set an appropriate message in Welcome_j_. >> > >> > The Welcome_j_ non could be overwritten by the user's various >> > startup.ijs scripts (unless this gets run before the JFE scripts - I >> > need to check) >> > >> > Depending on the setting of ShowWelcome in ~config/base.cfg the >> > Welcome_j_ noun gets displayed in the session (jconsole/Term/jijx >> > window). >> > >> > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Ian Clark wrote: >> >> How about smoutputting the noun WELCOME if it is present, and not >> >> otherwise? >> >> >> >> Maybe also executing: welcome'' >> >> >> >> The user could define or override either of these words in startup.ijs >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 2:21 AM, Ric Sherlock wrote: >> >>> I think it would be good to have a default "Welcome message" >> >>> (especially for jconsole). >> >>> >> >>> It just needs to be something simple to let the user know they are in >> >>> a Jconsole session and how to exit. IME there is nothing worse than >> >>> knowing you are in some application, but not knowing what it is or how >> >>> to get out of it! >> >>> >> >>> Obviously the Welcome message would be able to be turned off, for >> >>> example using an option in ~config/base.cfg ( ShowWelcome=: 0 ) >> >>> -- >> >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >>> >> >> -- >> >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> >> > -- >> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> > >> -- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > -- > regards, > > GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 > -- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] Welcome message for session?
Correction: that should have been "the Terminal session", not jconsole
(which is a binary executable).
("Terminal" being the Mac utility for running unix processes.)
I'm wondering why the execution of startup.ijs isn't deferred until
the Term window has been opened.
If there is an error in startup.ijs then I guess the user has to turn
to the Terminal window for diagnostic messages.
And in time the JGTK user ought to be able to ignore Terminal
altogether (I haven't found a way of hiding its window, except
manually).
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 3:49 AM, Ian Clark wrote:
> smoutput in startup.ijs causes a message to appear in jconsole,
> whether running JCON, JHS or JGTK.
--
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] Welcome message for session?
gtkide will run jfe 1 during booting and only after that will smoutput redirect to Term. So that you need to put motd after that jfe. Пнд, 14 Фев 2011, Ian Clark писал(а): > smoutput in startup.ijs causes a message to appear in jconsole, > whether running JCON, JHS or JGTK. > (...which weakly satisfies your original request). > But I've only verified this for the Mac. > > bin/jgtk.command contains the text: > #!/bin/sh > "`dirname "$0"`/jconsole" gtkide > > so my guess is that by the time gtkide gets run, startup.ijs has > already been loaded and has had time to perform its definitions and > overrides. > So it would be up to the "gtkide" function (main_jgtkide_ ??) to look > for a welcome noun or verb. > > > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 3:23 AM, Ric Sherlock wrote: > > Yes I was thinking along similar lines. > > > > Each of the JFEs could set an appropriate message in Welcome_j_. > > > > The Welcome_j_ non could be overwritten by the user's various > > startup.ijs scripts (unless this gets run before the JFE scripts - I > > need to check) > > > > Depending on the setting of ShowWelcome in ~config/base.cfg the > > Welcome_j_ noun gets displayed in the session (jconsole/Term/jijx > > window). > > > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Ian Clark wrote: > >> How about smoutputting the noun WELCOME if it is present, and not > >> otherwise? > >> > >> Maybe also executing: welcome'' > >> > >> The user could define or override either of these words in startup.ijs > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 2:21 AM, Ric Sherlock wrote: > >>> I think it would be good to have a default "Welcome message" > >>> (especially for jconsole). > >>> > >>> It just needs to be something simple to let the user know they are in > >>> a Jconsole session and how to exit. IME there is nothing worse than > >>> knowing you are in some application, but not knowing what it is or how > >>> to get out of it! > >>> > >>> Obviously the Welcome message would be able to be turned off, for > >>> example using an option in ~config/base.cfg ( ShowWelcome=: 0 ) > >>> -- > >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >>> > >> -- > >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> > > -- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > -- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm -- regards, GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] Welcome message for session?
smoutput in startup.ijs causes a message to appear in jconsole, whether running JCON, JHS or JGTK. (...which weakly satisfies your original request). But I've only verified this for the Mac. bin/jgtk.command contains the text: #!/bin/sh "`dirname "$0"`/jconsole" gtkide so my guess is that by the time gtkide gets run, startup.ijs has already been loaded and has had time to perform its definitions and overrides. So it would be up to the "gtkide" function (main_jgtkide_ ??) to look for a welcome noun or verb. On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 3:23 AM, Ric Sherlock wrote: > Yes I was thinking along similar lines. > > Each of the JFEs could set an appropriate message in Welcome_j_. > > The Welcome_j_ non could be overwritten by the user's various > startup.ijs scripts (unless this gets run before the JFE scripts - I > need to check) > > Depending on the setting of ShowWelcome in ~config/base.cfg the > Welcome_j_ noun gets displayed in the session (jconsole/Term/jijx > window). > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Ian Clark wrote: >> How about smoutputting the noun WELCOME if it is present, and not otherwise? >> >> Maybe also executing: welcome'' >> >> The user could define or override either of these words in startup.ijs >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 2:21 AM, Ric Sherlock wrote: >>> I think it would be good to have a default "Welcome message" >>> (especially for jconsole). >>> >>> It just needs to be something simple to let the user know they are in >>> a Jconsole session and how to exit. IME there is nothing worse than >>> knowing you are in some application, but not knowing what it is or how >>> to get out of it! >>> >>> Obviously the Welcome message would be able to be turned off, for >>> example using an option in ~config/base.cfg ( ShowWelcome=: 0 ) >>> -- >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>> >> -- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> > -- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] Welcome message for session?
Yes I was thinking along similar lines. Each of the JFEs could set an appropriate message in Welcome_j_. The Welcome_j_ non could be overwritten by the user's various startup.ijs scripts (unless this gets run before the JFE scripts - I need to check) Depending on the setting of ShowWelcome in ~config/base.cfg the Welcome_j_ noun gets displayed in the session (jconsole/Term/jijx window). On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Ian Clark wrote: > How about smoutputting the noun WELCOME if it is present, and not otherwise? > > Maybe also executing: welcome'' > > The user could define or override either of these words in startup.ijs > > > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 2:21 AM, Ric Sherlock wrote: >> I think it would be good to have a default "Welcome message" >> (especially for jconsole). >> >> It just needs to be something simple to let the user know they are in >> a Jconsole session and how to exit. IME there is nothing worse than >> knowing you are in some application, but not knowing what it is or how >> to get out of it! >> >> Obviously the Welcome message would be able to be turned off, for >> example using an option in ~config/base.cfg ( ShowWelcome=: 0 ) >> -- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> > -- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
Re: [Jgeneral] Welcome message for session?
How about smoutputting the noun WELCOME if it is present, and not otherwise? Maybe also executing: welcome'' The user could define or override either of these words in startup.ijs On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 2:21 AM, Ric Sherlock wrote: > I think it would be good to have a default "Welcome message" > (especially for jconsole). > > It just needs to be something simple to let the user know they are in > a Jconsole session and how to exit. IME there is nothing worse than > knowing you are in some application, but not knowing what it is or how > to get out of it! > > Obviously the Welcome message would be able to be turned off, for > example using an option in ~config/base.cfg ( ShowWelcome=: 0 ) > -- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > -- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
