Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Removal of articles.xml from website
On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 08:54:49AM +0530, Shyam Mani wrote: That said, amybe we can can contact DW and ask for a permalink of sorts? Or if we could mirrior the article on our site? Any other solutions? I know from Daniel that DW takes the exclusive rights to publish the articles for the first X months (I believe it was 6 months, but don't take my word on it). We are allowed to republish those articles later (as we've done with for instance an article about CVS), even in the form of a GuideXML document. Perhaps we can add all articles to our own repository? If we put a note on top stating note This article was originally published at the IBM DeveloperWorks website. /note and we get the agreement of the authors we should be all right. Wkr, Sven Vermeulen -- Documentation project leader - Gentoo Foundation Trustee The Gentoo Projecthttp://www.gentoo.org pgpaxNzNn2bHW.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] where goes Gentoo?
Stuart Herbert wrote: There have been some really interesting points brought up recently about where is Gentoo going? It feels like this topic comes up every year :) I'd say it should come up a little more often :) I have been wondering that myself. Some people seem to think that Gentoo has the potential to be an enterprise player. Maybe, maybe not ... but I don't see why we couldn't do a little bit more to make it easier for others to use us as a base. Isn't that what *we're* about - being a metadistribution? If we follow the metadistribution trail we should have a set of high-level tools that really help people manage their own binary packages building and deployment. We (all?) know that the underlying technology is already in Gentoo, but there are still no authoritative tool(s) to : 1- help rolling your own distribution based on Gentoo - tool to maintain frozen Portage trees - tool to roll out a software update pack including config files - ... 2- help centralizing packages deployment on several workstations - help test software update packs on gold systems - push packages to multiple systems - do accountability on what's installed on systems - ... I'm not talking about releasing an Enterprise-oriented flavor of Gentoo, I'm just talking about enabling people to do so and the minimal deployment tools needed in a 5+ machine network. The size of the Portage tree gives us a definitive advantage : you can have 100% Portage-packages systems, so what's-in-this-box accountability is not the nightmare it can be with other systems that heavily rely on third-party RPMs. We should exploit that advantage. -- Thierry Carrez (Koon) -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Re: Removal of articles.xml from website
On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 11:39:57AM +0200, Sven Vermeulen wrote: I know from Daniel that DW takes the exclusive rights to publish the articles for the first X months (I believe it was 6 months, but don't take my word on it). We are allowed to republish those articles later (as we've done with for instance an article about CVS), even in the form of a GuideXML document. [...] Okay, just to be certain I dug up an old mail from Daniel explaining the IBM work. Apparently, they are: - written as work for hire - property of Tenco Media Corporation or Westtech Information Services - Daniel is however allowed to republish them as he sees fit after 6-9 months with no restrictions except clearly mentioning that the articles are property of beforementioned. In the mail he states that we can republish his articles on Gentoo as long as we put the following note in each document: The original version of this article was first published on IBM developerWorks, and is property of Westtech Information Services. This document is an updated version of the original article, and contains various improvements made by the Gentoo Linux documentation team. So for Daniel's articles, this is no issue. However, we do need explicit approval for the other articles by the authors. I propose to start GuideXML'ifying Daniel's articles. I'll leave the details on the gentoo-doc mailinglist. If anyone sees his or her name on the articles page as being one of the other authors, mind contacting me with the approval (or disapproval) of republishing the articles (with or without modifications)? Wkr, Sven Vermeulen -- Documentation project leader - Gentoo Foundation Trustee The Gentoo Projecthttp://www.gentoo.org pgpl4hBUfg3gt.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Removal of articles.xml from website
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sven Vermeulen wrote: Many Gentoo developers have written articles about Linux and Gentoo on third-party sites. The articles page [1] was originally meant to provide links to those articles. However, it frequently occurs that links change (most notably the IBM ones). Because it is a pain to keep these links in shape, I'm proposing to remove the page from the Gentoo web site alltogether. Interested users can easily find those articles by searching on the IBM DW web site themselves. BTW, if this is a problem of your time, I would be happy to take over maintaining this page in the way I'd like to see it. =) Thanks, Donnie -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCqa4dXVaO67S1rtsRAoKwAKDPYq9Sd3rA3HE4itLjVwaOs6QzQgCdHjOJ tJWmW+ApKH7Mz1wA1Wj/R8k= =xRdp -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] ekeyword and ordering
On Friday 10 June 2005 10:55 am, foser wrote: If everyone starts using ekeyword now with the alphabetical ordering built in, everything will be consistent, and there shouldn't be a problem. even vapier indicates that there really is no reason to do it alphabetically, except maybe that he now knows to look in the keywords string, which is of course a bit far fetched with all arch keywords not being set for all different packs (so he still has to look at different points in different packs) and was not brought up as a defence of his particular move at the time he started doing this. not quite sure where you're pulling this out of but you're always full of suprises like this consistency is one advantage (which i'm sure you'll say is pointless) as for the rest of the ramble you posted here it's really quite wrong ... you must have missed the class where they teach you the ins outs of alphabetical sorting because it really does allow you to quickly scan a list and figure out if the item you're looking for is there or not if you ever had to do arch-specific KEYWORDing on a frequent basis (and i'm 99% sure you have nfc we support other arches than x86 if we use arch-specific breakage in GNOME depends as any sort of track record), you'd know that scattered KEYWORDS is a pita to deal with ... i've seen cases where a specific arch was duplicated in KEYWORDS; once near the beginning and once near the end ... normally it wasnt anything bad, but there was a case where one KEYWORD was stable while the other was unstable -mike -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] ekeyword and ordering
foser wrote:[Fri Jun 10 2005, 10:55:17AM EDT]
As the threadstarter indicated, this was done without discussing it
and in the knowledge that there was no agreement on this issue. As
said before, the fact that something gets done some way, doesn't
mean it's right to do it that way.
Not to dilute your point, which is well taken, but I'm curious how
much discretion the tool author has to make decisions independently?
See earlier replies : unneeded arbitrarily introduced inconsistency. I
don't know why people are defending that move, even vapier indicates
that there really is no reason to do it alphabetically, except maybe
that he now knows to look in the keywords string, which is of course a
bit far fetched with all arch keywords not being set for all different
packs (so he still has to look at different points in different packs)
and was not brought up as a defence of his particular move at the time
he started doing this.
If all the keywords in the tree were alphabetical, would that have any
impact on the compressibility of the tree?
Oh no doubt, I'm concerned about the inconsistency mostly. The
maintainers arch is a concept that I do not necessarily associate
with the keywords ordering anymore (although it may have been
a reasonable indicator in the past), it actually really makes this
discussion fuzzier than it has to be.
Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse the issue by bringing that up.
My point is more about how this got 'introduced' as a mindset and
that such unguided behaviour gets reinforced by this discussion, now
up to IUSE ordering changes and next we'll tackle inheritance order.
Agreed, it was a bad decision on my part to make the change without
discussing on this ML. That's something I will try to not repeat in
the future.
Btw, here's an interesting statistic which really doesn't add to (or
detract from, I hope) this discussion...
grep -hr --include=\*.ebuild '^KEYWORDS=' /usr/portage | perl -ne '
s/[^[:lower:]\s]//; @F = split; @S = sort @F; $sorted++ if @F eq @S;
END { printf %d%% of ebuilds are sorted (%d/%d)\n, 100*$sorted/$.,
$sorted, $. }'
49% of ebuilds are sorted (9435/19174)
Regards,
Aron
--
Aron Griffis
Gentoo Linux Developer
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[gentoo-dev] Announcing Gentoo Universe
Hi, It's been running for about a week already but its about time it was properly announced :) It seems that we have a fairly even split of opinions on whether Planet Gentoo should be strictly for Gentoo and related topics, or whether it should be a full aggregation of more personal articles plus Gentoo articles too. As a result of this, weve decided to launch a second site, Gentoo Universe, which will aggregate all articles (any topic) on participating developers weblogs. This will run alongside Planet Gentoo, which will still remain an aggregation for Gentoo and related articles and will continue as normal. New contributors will be added to both sites. All existing contributors feeds have been copied over. If you are an existing contributor and you'd like to truly become part of the universe by having your feed 'de-restricted' on the universe site, please send me an email or catch me on IRC. The only restriction is that all articles should be written in English. If you host your weblog at http://planet.gentoo.org/developers and would like to also participate in the universe site, let me know, and I will give you the ability to add more categories to your blog. (You still need to keep Gentoo stuff categorised separately so that the original Planet can keep running as normal) Gentoo Universe can be found at http://planet.gentoo.org/universe/ Currently, there isn't a great amount of difference between the two sites. This will change as more people give me their entire feed URL's. Thanks, Daniel -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] GDP: Mid-year status update
Hi all, In the beginning of the year, I have posted the New Year Goals for the Gentoo Documentation Project [1], listing a few bigger topics we would like to address in this year. Now that we are half-way, I would like to inform you about the progress the GDP has made since then. For your reference, you can find the New Year Goals in the GDP Status Update, dated March 7th [2], but I will relist them here with information on their advancements. ** Pull in developers/contributors Before randomly starting to pull in users who want to join the GDP, we have crafted a guideline on how we recruit developers [3]. This guideline includes numbers on how we (Xavier and I) look at contributors before we deem them active enough to be part of the project. It also includes a Quiz that each contributor has to fill in succesfully. With this guideline in place, we have already invited a few contributors to join the GDP crew. Some of them are lead translators, non-x86 architectural documentation developers (MIPS, AMD64, PPC) and others are English Documentation Editors and reviewers. Others are in the pipeline for joining. We are however still looking for internal developers who want to join the GDP team to help their project deliver quality documentation. Internal, because they need to have a good knowledge of the project in their hands. This is however no hard-written rule: if you are known to the project but no Gentoo developer, that is of course good as well, but we do want the acknowledgement from the project. ** Reintroduce Status Updates Until this day I have not reintroduced status updates (the request on all documentation editors to submit personal status updates) since the team is currently working well (we have a good bug squashing rithm) and there is no direct need to duplicate what we already know of each other on the mailinglist. However, when the project would become too large to handle directly, indirect status updates will be introduced. But again, for the time being, this has not been found necessary. ** Improve documentation on GuideXML The idea here was to document the use of the various tags better (/why/ do we have an abstract tag, where is it used, etc.). With the Quiz in mind, this has been put back a bit as the Quiz directly asks each contributor for all this information. Putting it all in a single document would defeat the idea of the quiz a bit (since every body would be able to copy/paste everything). ** Writing Style documentation The entire Gentoo Documentation Repository is written by various individuals. This gives a cluttered idea on the writing style involved in the documents. We have not received any (negative) feedback about this, but we do feel that some common writing styles should be introduced. There is no proposal on a writing style yet, though, so see this as still being Planned. ** Define Location of Documentation Most projects put project-specific documentation on their project page. For the GDP, as long as this documentation does not affect the broad user base, this is just fine. Projects should know however that this documentation is less likely to be reviewed by the GDP or translated. Whenever a document can be of interest for a larger population, we feel that the document must reside under http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en, which is the GDPs play ground. Not only does this improve the quality of the documentation, but it also improves the visibility of the document to the wider audience. ** Audit the Existing Documentation Auditing is of course a work that's always in progress. We have recently decided to rewrite the ALSA Guide [4] as it was getting too cluttered with patches here and there to fix things that are obsoleted or renewed. Other documentation is being audited or worked on. If you find anything outdated or in need of an update, bug [5] us. ** More USE-case Documentation With USE-case documentation we mean documents that cover multiple subjects simultaneously. Documents such as the LDAP Howto [6], the UTF-8 Guide [7], Mailfilter Guide [8] and others are good examples. Such documents contain information that is more difficult to find elsewhere. However, we have seen that the community appreciates the configuration guides (Xorg, KDE, GNOME, fluxbox, ...) a lot as they are frequently referenced in #gentoo, on the mailinglists and on the Gentoo Forums, so the urge to go for USE-case documentation has decreased a bit in favor of the latter. If you have questions about other activities within the Gentoo Documentation Project, proposals or feedback, do not hesitate to reply or contact me personally at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or SwifT on irc.freenode.net. Wkr, Sven Vermeulen [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gdp [2] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gdp/status/status_20050307.xml [3]
Re: [gentoo-dev] Announcing Gentoo Universe
Daniel Drake wrote: [Fri Jun 10 2005, 02:01:14PM EDT] If you host your weblog at http://planet.gentoo.org/developers How does one get signed up to host a weblog there? Regards, Aron -- Aron Griffis Gentoo Linux Developer pgpTvAhZdS9GJ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Announcing Gentoo Universe
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Daniel Drake wrote: Gentoo Universe can be found at http://planet.gentoo.org/universe/ Currently, there isn't a great amount of difference between the two sites. This will change as more people give me their entire feed URL's. Now we can start the argument about which one should be at the default page, right? =D Thanks, Donnie -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCqhL6XVaO67S1rtsRAkqNAKD0+817aEfrUJtmQaM0nrxJijYUgACgqsw9 u6gXYaXOTSZsOFGA/KmRO04= =5RVG -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] a #g-d first impression might represent process and metastructure
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jim Northrup wrote: | Joshua Baergen wrote: | | |2) There are gentoo.org references to #gentoo-dev, but the process of |interfacing, mentoring, and recruiting are self-referential beginning |with a bootstrap of being on the good side of an existing developer. So |for those of us who do not establish favorable dialogues by filing a |bug, the door starts out closed. | | | |In reference to the difficulties outlined regarding becoming a |developer above, I am in the process of becoming a dev without any |contact with developers beforehand except for filing a bug that |probably annoyed devs more than helped :P I contacted the recruiting |group in response to a requirement for developers and they were glad |to get the process started provided that I showed evidence that I |would be an asset, mainly through input on bugs currently open. | |I doubt that I am the only one who has this story, but that doesn't |mean your claim in #2 could not have happened to other people. Did |you have any specific situations you were referring to when you wrote |that? | | | | I was up late on a friday evening hacking up a nifty addition to my | system and in my excitement and exuberance jumped on IRC to the dev | channel to get pointers to the best official references to ebuild | crafting and submission. | | As it was absolutely silent, I waited a few minutes and requested voice | from the first notice of motion i saw in the channel.. re, or some | similar indication of important offical business commencing. I was | informed that the bottom line was voice was only granted to developers, | period, end of story, no exceptions, and I was obviously misinformed and | should be elsewhere. Instead of anything like assistance I wound up | being told | 1) (condescension) it was people like me who try to skirt the gentoo | process which are actually the problem even if we think it's contributing, | 2)these important people in this channel are only here so that they can | occasionally ping each other and see thier nickname had been highlighted. | 3) that under no circumstance was I going to get an audience in | #gentoo-dev, now or in future context, because it was for developers, | and regardless of 20 years coding experience or working on linux since | 0.99, I was not a developer | 4) I could feel free to file a bug if I thought there was an issue, or | talk to a recruiter about something to help out with. | First, let me say i am sorry you had this experience, i freuqntly voice people in #gentoo-dev if they seem to have the need to speak there, the reasons could be many, maybe someone uses icewm and finds it way outdated, and helps the maintainer by testing for him, being a quasi maintainer a while dow the road and eventually becoming a gentoo dev (might i add imhoi would say we have more maintainers than developers/imho?) and taking care of icewm completely then and making it a habit to apply the many gcc 3.4 patches who have been submitted to bugzilla, and lay dead and dusty there for no dev to be touched (ok so now it would be gcc4.0 but that dev might have brought on a guy who takes care of those by now ok enough stories about how use having +v in #gentoo-dev is possible, is normal, and can lead to things | my reply was that I enter #gentoo-dev, and request voice when it seems | helpful and important, without incident in all previous occasions | the response was that these developers were obviously in error and it | was irrelevant to the discussion. | | I said I'm willing to take my chances as being perceived as noise. | the response was an unceremonious kick. | | This developer was possessed with zeal and determination. to be sure. | | Anyways, it happened, it's over. the order and exact words may have | been different but the tone and the impression stuck. I spent the due | dillegence perfecting my system hack, but I did not succeed in making it | available, or finding a likely benefactor project for voip qos | settings. This was beneath the involvment of #gentoo-dev at the time i | made the approach. I spent several hours researching volumes of gentoo | info alternating between the recruitment process and the ebuild process, | on a busy weekend i had planned to spend apart from a console. | | so.. as an aside, is there a package with an interest in iptable | configuration for broadband voip qos configs? what i really replied for is to ask, if i can forward your email to a friend of mine who happens to be involved with telephony with his company, i know zero about that, i do know he does use VoIP, so maybe he finds your hack nifty | | Jim hope you better luck next time in #gentoo-dev Daniel -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFCqlguUpKYMelfdYERAtt8AJ4p937DdhoHGKuhgKEO8V6QLfM+gwCdHCeJ d226J9epAw42oIsGkj0+5r8= =QAsX -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org
