Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: net-misc/cidr
Elfyn McBratney kirjoitti: Hullo list, Upstream for net-misc/cidr has disappeared (their homepage has been dead for a long long time according to archive.org), and a cursory check on the Internets doesn't yield a new home. Masked accordingly, pending removal on 2006-12-25 - 14 days time. Take this as an invitation to raise objections. ;) Best, Elfyn Why do against the standard policy of 30 days? Regards, Petteri signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: net-misc/cidr
On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 11:16:25 +0200 Petteri Räty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Upstream for net-misc/cidr has disappeared (their homepage has been dead for a long long time according to archive.org), and a cursory check on the Internets doesn't yield a new home. Masked accordingly, pending removal on 2006-12-25 - 14 days time. Take this as an invitation to raise objections. ;) Best, Elfyn Why do against the standard policy of 30 days? Because it's christmas on 25th. :) -- Andrej Ticho Kacian ticho at gentoo dot org Gentoo Linux Developer - net-mail, antivirus, sound, x86 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-dev] Re: Big change ideea
Mike Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Fri, 15 Dec 2006 18:56:58 -0500: Marijn Schouten wrote: 3) security. When installing a package, it only has write access to its own directory. I'm guessing they do this with ACLs. So we have this cool package manager which supports 1) and 2), but not 3) I think, and they have almost no package manager, but it supports 1), 2) and 3). Gentoo has this feature, too. It's provided by a package called sys-apps/sandbox. It's a dependency of portage on all glibc and uclibc systems (so, it's part of any standard Gentoo/Linux install). It prevents packages from touching anything outside of their build directory, or an image directory where it is installed before portage merges the files into the live filesystem. As I understand GOBO Linux, however, the way they do it is a bit different. Since they install all of a package to the same place -- it's own dir, not mixed up with files from other packages in a public dir -- when he said it can only write to it's own dir as it installs, that's literally what he /meant/, it can write to /that/ /dir/ and /nowhere/ else. GOBO is one of the few Linuxes that has that, because the way it installs stuff is so very different than traditional *ix, including Gentoo Linux. OTOH, that means config files and data files and executables and libraries and icons and .desktop files and all the rest that might get installed by the package is all in the same dir, no separation of executables from config from data. A traditional *ix or even normal Linux admin would be driven to distraction with that sort of arrangement, and it's little wonder none of the Gentoo devs seem the least bit interested. It does have it's own kind of logic, but it's so different from regular *ix logic, few *ix heads will consider it even worth their time to think about. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master. Richard Stallman -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] net-misc/ltsp
Hi all, net-misc/ltsp will be removed on 15 Jan 2007, it has been hard masked today. There is no maintainer, we have an open security issue [1], so it will be punted. If someone steps to take it over, you know what to do. [1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=142661 V-Li -- Fingerprint: 68C5 D381 B69A A777 6A91 E999 350A AD7C 2B85 9DE3 http://www.gnupg.org/ -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] IMPORTANT: CVS/mastermirror downtime
Tach Lance, 0x2B859DE3 (PGP-PK-ID) Lance Albertson schrieb: Thanks guys for taking care of this so quickly! Sorry I couldn't help much as I'm a bit busy traveling for the next few days. The Gentoo flag waves in then winter windthanks. V-Li -- Fingerprint: 68C5 D381 B69A A777 6A91 E999 350A AD7C 2B85 9DE3 http://www.gnupg.org/ -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Dependencies on system packages
Stephen Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could you spell out that exception clause, please? It doesn't translate well into words, but we'll go with something like Unless you know exactly why the rule is there, understand fully the implications of breaking it, and know why it's a good idea in this particular case. However, if you're in a position to be invoking that clause, you should know about it anyway. Can we skip the sekrit rulez crap and just spell it out? Really, how does this help anyone? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-dev] Re: [RFC] USE_EXPAND variable to choose ALSA PCM plugins
Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not sure if anybody here knows, but alsa-plugins is not the only set of plugins an user installs in its system, many others are installed by alsa-lib itself, they are the basic plugins like dmix, dsnoop, iec958, plug... the ones that many asoundrc already make use of. Now of course, most of the users need them, and disabling them would be pretty bad, but again, there are reasons to disable some of them at least, especially when targetting small embedded devices. If nobody has anything against this, I'll add an ALSA_PCM_PLUGINS variable where users can choose the plugins they want built, to reduce the amount of code installed by alsa-lib: Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild R ] media-libs/alsa-lib-1.0.14_rc1 USE=-alisp -debug -doc -midi ALSA_PCM_PLUGINS=-adpcm -alaw -asym -copy -dmix -dshare -dsnoop -empty -extplug -file -hooks iec958 -ioplug -ladspa -lfloat -linear -meter -mulaw -multi -null plug -rate -route -share -shm -softvol 0 kB I don't think the average user, even the average Gentoo user, has any idea what any of these plug-ins do, how they work, and which ones they need. This is getting a bit too complicated. Is there any way to install everything as we've always done but still provide some way for embedded to do their thing? Keeping the ALSA_PCM_PLUGINS around but putting it in USE_EXPAND_HIDDEN might work. People who want the ability to turn off alsa-lib plug-ins could then do so in make.conf without confusing the hell out of everyone else. ;) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [RFC] USE_EXPAND variable to choose ALSA PCM plugins
Ryan Hill kirjoitti: I don't think the average user, even the average Gentoo user, has any idea what any of these plug-ins do, how they work, and which ones they need. This is getting a bit too complicated. Is there any way to install everything as we've always done but still provide some way for embedded to do their thing? Keeping the ALSA_PCM_PLUGINS around but putting it in USE_EXPAND_HIDDEN might work. People who want the ability to turn off alsa-lib plug-ins could then do so in make.conf without confusing the hell out of everyone else. ;) Well why not just make every plugin enabled by default? I think Diego already stated this somewhere. Regards, Petteri signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Dependencies on system packages
On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 12:46:30 -0600 Ryan Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Stephen Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Could you spell out that exception clause, please? | | It doesn't translate well into words, but we'll go with something | like Unless you know exactly why the rule is there, understand | fully the implications of breaking it, and know why it's a | good idea in this particular case. | | However, if you're in a position to be invoking that clause, you | should know about it anyway. | | Can we skip the sekrit rulez crap and just spell it out? Really, how | does this help anyone? It's quite simple. You don't do it unless you are fully aware of the consequences. If you have to ask, you aren't fully aware of the consequences so you mustn't do it. -- Ciaran McCreesh Mail: ciaranm at ciaranm.org Web : http://ciaranm.org/ Paludis is faster : http://ciaranm.org/show_post.pl?post_id=61 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [RFC] USE_EXPAND variable to choose ALSA PCM plugins
On Saturday 16 December 2006 20:48, Ryan Hill wrote: Keeping the ALSA_PCM_PLUGINS around but putting it in USE_EXPAND_HIDDEN might work. USE_EXPAND_HIDDEN is something you shouldn't really do for user-definable behaviour. -- Diego Flameeyes Pettenò - http://farragut.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org/ Gentoo/Alt lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, Sound, ALSA, PAM, KDE, CJK, Ruby ... pgp7qOimEaKwR.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] anybody wants app-misc/nomad-tool?
Masked, as per previous announement. Nobody stepped up, so this is now on track for removal. George -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Dependencies on system packages
Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 12:46:30 -0600 Ryan Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Can we skip the sekrit rulez crap and just spell it out? Really, | how does this help anyone? It's quite simple. You don't do it unless you are fully aware of the consequences. If you have to ask, you aren't fully aware of the consequences so you mustn't do it. That's a flawed argument. Not knowing doesn't prevent you from asking, and asking will inform you of the consequences, assuming the asked isn't a complete tool. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [RFC] USE_EXPAND variable to choose ALSA PCM plugins
Ryan Hill wrote: I don't think the average user, even the average Gentoo user, has any idea what any of these plug-ins do, how they work, and which ones they need. This is getting a bit too complicated. Not really I think as usual none == all ^^ lu -- Luca Barbato Gentoo/linux Gentoo/PPC http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [RFC] USE_EXPAND variable to choose ALSA PCM plugins
On Saturday 16 December 2006 22:18, Luca Barbato wrote: Not really I think as usual none == all ^^ Yes, but I also plan to make all of them in the default set. -- Diego Flameeyes Pettenò - http://farragut.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org/ Gentoo/Alt lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, Sound, ALSA, PAM, KDE, CJK, Ruby ... pgpcYMMm6KbMd.pgp Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-dev] Re: [RFC] USE_EXPAND variable to choose ALSA PCM plugins
Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 16 December 2006 22:18, Luca Barbato wrote: Not really I think as usual none == all ^^ Yes, but I also plan to make all of them in the default set. I withdraw my objection then. ;d signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Dependencies on system packages
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 12:46:30 -0600 Ryan Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Stephen Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Could you spell out that exception clause, please? | | It doesn't translate well into words, but we'll go with something | like Unless you know exactly why the rule is there, understand | fully the implications of breaking it, and know why it's a | good idea in this particular case. | | However, if you're in a position to be invoking that clause, you | should know about it anyway. | | Can we skip the sekrit rulez crap and just spell it out? Really, how | does this help anyone? It's quite simple. You don't do it unless you are fully aware of the consequences. If you have to ask, you aren't fully aware of the consequences so you mustn't do it. Which clearly doesn't answer Ryan's question... but hey... that's a Ciaran answer... Basically the idea is that Ciaran and spb can protect their image as the all knowing gods of programming. In other mailing lists they would be considered trolls and/or Debian devs/users. -- Doug Goldstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://dev.gentoo.org/~cardoe/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Dependencies on system packages
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Doug Goldstein wrote: Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 12:46:30 -0600 Ryan Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Stephen Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Could you spell out that exception clause, please? | | It doesn't translate well into words, but we'll go with something | like Unless you know exactly why the rule is there, understand | fully the implications of breaking it, and know why it's a | good idea in this particular case. | | However, if you're in a position to be invoking that clause, you | should know about it anyway. | | Can we skip the sekrit rulez crap and just spell it out? Really, how | does this help anyone? It's quite simple. You don't do it unless you are fully aware of the consequences. If you have to ask, you aren't fully aware of the consequences so you mustn't do it. Which clearly doesn't answer Ryan's question... but hey... that's a Ciaran answer... Basically the idea is that Ciaran and spb can protect their image as the all knowing gods of programming. In other mailing lists they would be considered trolls and/or Debian devs/users. All right, all the trolling needs to stop. Please direct your flames at the closest brick wall. - -- === Mike Doty kingtaco -at- gentoo.org Gentoo/AMD64 Strategic Lead Gentoo Council Gentoo Developer Relations Gentoo Recruitment Lead Gentoo Infrastructure GPG: E1A5 1C9C 93FE F430 C1D6 F2AF 806B A2E4 19F4 AE05 === -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iQCVAwUBRYSDAIBrouQZ9K4FAQI1SAP/eIuXRpqypo8wdbtfISgmhtbMICczjl1d aZrALxsATSWnmQjy7E9E2B2A7iFKQxIyCKXlUusoDtTooGmBegXALZzgQ7oOL3gt YJFcP0YjFTLnwfpfwauVMfYJGB/ClmGze0nVNyGfU2dSt4eWY9zLw9Ai90v2jGPX U0B+VjlnLpY= =f/Mj -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] SAMBA needs a maintainer
net-fs/samba has been missing a maintainer since August, and there's quite a lot of open bugs. Anyone interested in taking over this (at least temporarily), please see the following list: http://tinyurl.com/wycqt Thanks. -- Best regards, Jakub Moc mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG signature: http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xCEBA3D9E Primary key fingerprint: D2D7 933C 9BA1 C95B 2C95 B30F 8717 D5FD CEBA 3D9E ... still no signature ;) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[gentoo-dev] Re: Dependencies on system packages
Ryan Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ciaran McCreesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's quite simple. You don't do it unless you are fully aware of the consequences. If you have to ask, you aren't fully aware of the consequences so you mustn't do it. That's a flawed argument. Not knowing doesn't prevent you from asking, and asking will inform you of the consequences, assuming the asked isn't a complete tool. Let me try this more diplomatically. How are we supposed to know if a package that's depending on a system package is a bug or an exception if we have no idea what the exception(s) is/are? Stephen Bennett wrote: If you don't know about the unwritten yet near universal exception clause then you shouldn't be invoking it. If it's universal, then why isn't it written somewhere? After all this, we *still* haven't gotten an answer to why some packages outside of the system target are depending on zlib. Is this a bug? If not, what's the reason it's there? Let's document this reason, so we don't have to go through this again in the future. It's that simple. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] SAMBA needs a maintainer
Jakub Moc wrote: net-fs/samba has been missing a maintainer since August, and there's quite a lot of open bugs. Anyone interested in taking over this (at least temporarily), please see the following list: http://tinyurl.com/wycqt Thanks. If there are any interested users, I am willing to proxy-maintain this as well. Thanks, -Alec Warner -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Dependencies on system packages
Ryan Hill wrote: Ryan Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If it's universal, then why isn't it written somewhere? After all this, we *still* haven't gotten an answer to why some packages outside of the system target are depending on zlib. Is this a bug? If not, what's the reason it's there? Let's document this reason, so we don't have to go through this again in the future. It's that simple. Hrm, I thought I wrote about this a while ago but I don't see it on archives.g.o so lets try again. If your package is 'not important' meaning it will never be in 'system' for any profile, you should not depend on anything in 'system', as stuff in system should already be installed in a given (sane) configuration. If your package may be in 'system' in a given profile, you need to ensure your package builds in the proper order, with regards to other system packages. The classic example is zlib; if you need zlib to uncompress something, then you should put zlib in the deps; that way when someone is building say, a stage1, your package will build after zlib, instead of before it. You have to be careful in deciding what to specify, as doing things incorrectly in this case can often cause dependency loops which are sometimes fun to debug; perl and openssl were infamous back in the day for this. Enterprising users would specify the 'doc' useflag. openssl requires perl to generate its docs and perl requires openssl for some encryption stuff. Users would then complain about perl or openssl not building, or portage getting really pissed at them; the solution being to build openssl twice, once with USE=-doc and then build perl, and then rebuild openssl with USE=doc. This certainly wasn't the only case where this occurred (see ML thread about shadow and it's dep on some other package I can't remember, although that was a while back as well). In conclusion, you need domain knowledge of system packages and portage behavior to make good choices here ;) Wow that pasted nastily; hopefully it shows up ok ;) In any case I'm sure there are some other exceptions but these are the main ones. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Dependencies on system packages
Alec Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hrm, I thought I wrote about this a while ago but I don't see it on archives.g.o so lets try again. If your package is 'not important' meaning it will never be in 'system' for any profile, you should not depend on anything in 'system', as stuff in system should already be installed in a given (sane) configuration. If your package may be in 'system' in a given profile, you need to ensure your package builds in the proper order, with regards to other system packages. The classic example is zlib; if you need zlib to uncompress something, then you should put zlib in the deps; that way when someone is building say, a stage1, your package will build after zlib, instead of before it. You have to be careful in deciding what to specify, as doing things incorrectly in this case can often cause dependency loops which are sometimes fun to debug; perl and openssl were infamous back in the day for this. Enterprising users would specify the 'doc' useflag. openssl requires perl to generate its docs and perl requires openssl for some encryption stuff. Users would then complain about perl or openssl not building, or portage getting really pissed at them; the solution being to build openssl twice, once with USE=-doc and then build perl, and then rebuild openssl with USE=doc. This certainly wasn't the only case where this occurred (see ML thread about shadow and it's dep on some other package I can't remember, although that was a while back as well). In conclusion, you need domain knowledge of system packages and portage behavior to make good choices here ;) Wow that pasted nastily; hopefully it shows up ok ;) In any case I'm sure there are some other exceptions but these are the main ones. Cool, that's exactly what I was looking for. thanks ;d signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] SAMBA needs a maintainer
Jakub Moc wrote: net-fs/samba has been missing a maintainer since August, and there's quite a lot of open bugs. Anyone interested in taking over this (at least temporarily), please see the following list: http://tinyurl.com/wycqt Thanks. I'll give some of the issues a look over Monday if you ping me about it jakub. But I don't want to maintain it. I'll proxy maintain it for a user and help them out if they need. -- Doug Goldstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://dev.gentoo.org/~cardoe/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] SAMBA needs a maintainer
i just closed a bunch of them and version bumped the pkg ... but dont let that stop anyone else from having a look at still open issues :p -mike pgpsbLd7iZYGb.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Dependencies on system packages
On Sunday 17 December 2006 10:27, Alec Warner wrote: If your package is 'not important' meaning it will never be in 'system' for any profile, you should not depend on anything in 'system', as stuff in system should already be installed in a given (sane) configuration. Except if the package is fussy on what version it needs. If your package may be in 'system' in a given profile, you need to ensure your package builds in the proper order, with regards to other system packages. The classic example is zlib; if you need zlib to uncompress something, then you should put zlib in the deps; that way when someone is building say, a stage1, your package will build after zlib, instead of before it. Given your point above, this should only be important as far as bootstrapping goes. After bootstrapping, stuff in system should already be installed. However, 'system' becomes quite an extensive list of packages after enabling all use flags that didn't begin with 'no'. I've attached the list that results from my current tree. So are packages such as qt, nvidia-drivers, courier-imap, samba and jack-audio-connection-kit also part of 'system' or is 'system' only limited to the profile-defined USE flags at the time of bootstrapping? You have to be careful in deciding what to specify, as doing things incorrectly in this case can often cause dependency loops which are sometimes fun to debug; perl and openssl were infamous back in the day for this. This stopped applying with recent versions of portage. I'm pretty sure the current stable version of portage detects circular deps and tries to resolve them utilizing installed packages but I've lost track of what's made it to stable and what hasn't. As far as I know, both palidus and pkgcore do or will also support this, so your point here doesn't hold. Enterprising users would specify the 'doc' useflag. openssl requires perl to generate its docs and perl requires openssl for some encryption stuff. [snipped] This example is not a reason to leave out appropriate dependencies. I've tried to be objective here so if my viewpoint isn't obvious I'll state it outright. I think all packages should depend on every package that they need to build and/or run. Whether this is done explicitly or with meta-packages, I don't really care. The only reason for not being explicit with deps is to cater for old sloppy versions of portage. Unless there are other reasons not stated here? -- Jason Stubbs app-admin/eselect-1.0.2 app-admin/eselect-esd-20060719 app-admin/eselect-opengl-1.0.3 app-admin/gamin-0.1.7 app-admin/perl-cleaner-1.04.3 app-admin/php-toolkit-1.0-r2 app-admin/skey-1.1.5-r5 app-admin/syslog-ng-1.6.9 app-arch/bzip2-1.0.3-r6 app-arch/cpio-2.6-r5 app-arch/gzip-1.3.5-r10 app-arch/rpm-4.4.6-r3 app-arch/rpm2targz-9.0-r5 app-arch/tar-1.16-r2 app-arch/unzip-5.52-r1 app-crypt/gnupg-1.4.6 app-crypt/gnupg-1.9.21 app-crypt/hashalot-0.3-r2 app-crypt/kth-krb-1.2.2-r2 app-crypt/mhash-0.9.2 app-crypt/mit-krb5-1.4.3-r3 app-crypt/opencdk-0.5.5 app-doc/doxygen-1.4.7 app-doc/opengl-manpages-20001215 app-doc/php-docs-20050822 app-editors/emacs-21.4-r4 app-misc/ca-certificates-20050804 app-misc/mime-types-5 app-misc/pax-utils-0.1.13 app-portage/portage-manpages-20060913 app-portage/portage-utils-0.1.20 app-shells/bash-3.1_p17 app-text/aspell-0.50.5-r4 app-text/build-docbook-catalog-1.2 app-text/docbook-dsssl-stylesheets-1.79 app-text/docbook-sgml-dtd-3.0-r3 app-text/docbook-sgml-dtd-3.1-r3 app-text/docbook-sgml-dtd-4.0-r3 app-text/docbook-sgml-dtd-4.1-r3 app-text/docbook-sgml-dtd-4.2-r2 app-text/docbook-sgml-utils-0.6.14 app-text/docbook-xml-dtd-4.1.2-r6 app-text/docbook-xml-dtd-4.2-r1 app-text/docbook-xml-simple-dtd-1.0-r1 app-text/docbook-xml-simple-dtd-4.1.2.4-r2 app-text/docbook-xsl-stylesheets-1.68.1-r1 app-text/ghostscript-gpl-8.54 app-text/htmltidy-4.8.6 app-text/jadetex-3.13-r1 app-text/libpaper-1.1.20 app-text/openjade-1.3.2-r1 app-text/opensp-1.5.2-r1 app-text/poppler-0.5.3 app-text/recode-3.6-r2 app-text/rman-3.2 app-text/scrollkeeper-0.3.14-r2 app-text/sgml-common-0.6.3-r4 app-text/tetex-3.0_p1-r3 app-text/xmlto-0.0.18 dev-db/cdb-0.75-r1 dev-db/firebird-1.5.3-r1 dev-db/freetds-0.62.3 dev-db/libiodbc-3.51.2 dev-db/libpq-8.0.8 dev-db/mysql-5.0.26-r1 dev-db/postgresql-8.0.8 dev-db/qdbm-1.8.70-r1 dev-db/qt-unixODBC-3.3.6 dev-db/sqlite-2.8.16-r4 dev-db/sqlite-3.3.5-r1 dev-db/unixODBC-2.2.11-r1 dev-dotnet/libgdiplus-1.1.13.2 dev-java/blackdown-jdk-1.4.2.03-r12 dev-java/java-config-1.3.7 dev-java/java-config-2.0.30 dev-java/java-config-wrapper-0.12-r1 dev-java/java-sdk-docs-1.4.2 dev-java/java-sdk-docs-1.5.0-r1 dev-java/sun-jce-bin-1.5.0 dev-java/sun-jdk-1.5.0.08 dev-lang/lua-5.0.2 dev-lang/mono-1.1.13.8.1 dev-lang/ocaml-3.09.2 dev-lang/perl-5.8.8-r2 dev-lang/php-5.1.6-r6 dev-lang/python-2.4.3-r4 dev-lang/ruby-1.8.5_p2 dev-lang/swig-1.3.25 dev-lang/tcl-8.4.9 dev-lang/tk-8.4.9 dev-libs/DirectFB-0.9.25.1 dev-libs/apr-0.9.12 dev-libs/apr-util-0.9.12 dev-libs/atk-1.12.1
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Dependencies on system packages
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 15:10:57 +0900 Jason Stubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | I've tried to be objective here so if my viewpoint isn't obvious I'll | state it outright. I think all packages should depend on every | package that they need to build and/or run. Whether this is done | explicitly or with meta-packages, I don't really care. The only | reason for not being explicit with deps is to cater for old sloppy | versions of portage. Unless there are other reasons not stated here? If you mandate that, any package using autotools will need around fifty new entries in DEPEND. -- Ciaran McCreesh Mail: ciaranm at ciaranm.org Web : http://ciaranm.org/ Paludis is faster : http://ciaranm.org/show_post.pl?post_id=61 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Dependencies on system packages
On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 15:21:36 -0500 Doug Goldstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | It's quite simple. You don't do it unless you are fully aware of the | consequences. If you have to ask, you aren't fully aware of the | consequences so you mustn't do it. | | | Which clearly doesn't answer Ryan's question... but hey... that's a | Ciaran answer... No, it answers it perfectly, and far better than the other answers in this thread that give an incomplete and inaccurate perspective that will encourage people to do the wrong thing. -- Ciaran McCreesh Mail: ciaranm at ciaranm.org Web : http://ciaranm.org/ Paludis is faster : http://ciaranm.org/show_post.pl?post_id=61 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Dependencies on system packages
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 15:21:36 -0500 Doug Goldstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | It's quite simple. You don't do it unless you are fully aware of the | consequences. If you have to ask, you aren't fully aware of the | consequences so you mustn't do it. | | | Which clearly doesn't answer Ryan's question... but hey... that's a | Ciaran answer... No, it answers it perfectly, and far better than the other answers in this thread that give an incomplete and inaccurate perspective that will encourage people to do the wrong thing. Some people learn by making mistakes ;) -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Dependencies on system packages
On Sunday 17 December 2006 16:04, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 15:10:57 +0900 Jason Stubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | I've tried to be objective here so if my viewpoint isn't obvious I'll | state it outright. I think all packages should depend on every | package that they need to build and/or run. Whether this is done | explicitly or with meta-packages, I don't really care. The only | reason for not being explicit with deps is to cater for old sloppy | versions of portage. Unless there are other reasons not stated here? If you mandate that, any package using autotools will need around fifty new entries in DEPEND. There's ways to manage this complexity, such as putting the dependencies into autotools' RDEPEND (if it can be considered correct) or by using meta-packages. However, your point is against requiring that packages _must_ specify all system dependencies. While I personally believe that packages should specify all dependencies, what I'm arguing against is requiring that packages _must not_ specify any system dependencies. -- Jason Stubbs -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Dependencies on system packages
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 16:41:40 +0900 Jason Stubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | On Sunday 17 December 2006 16:04, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: | On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 15:10:57 +0900 Jason Stubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] | wrote: | | I've tried to be objective here so if my viewpoint isn't obvious | | I'll state it outright. I think all packages should depend on | | every package that they need to build and/or run. Whether this is | | done explicitly or with meta-packages, I don't really care. The | | only reason for not being explicit with deps is to cater for old | | sloppy versions of portage. Unless there are other reasons not | | stated here? | | If you mandate that, any package using autotools will need around | fifty new entries in DEPEND. | | There's ways to manage this complexity, such as putting the | dependencies into autotools' RDEPEND (if it can be considered | correct) That one pulls us back into the lack of distinction between stuff needed when compiling against this library and stuff this library needs to run. | or by using meta-packages. DEPEND=virtual/c-toolchain would indeed be nice, but it's a rather large change... -- Ciaran McCreesh Mail: ciaranm at ciaranm.org Web : http://ciaranm.org/ Paludis is faster : http://ciaranm.org/show_post.pl?post_id=61 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
