Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages needing new maintainers, redux

2008-01-14 Thread Denis Dupeyron
On Jan 14, 2008 4:12 AM, Robin H. Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Networking, admin tool for some networked printers and JetDirect-style 
  adapter
  boxes:
  net-print/npadmin
 printing herd, can you take this?

Sure, but as long as none of us as such hardware we can only do basic
maintenance. This is a not-so-hidden call to anybody with this and
other printing hardware to join the net-print herd to help us.

  Hardware, programming PIC embedded microcontrollers (the herd might end up 
  with
  these, but somebody with the hardware to use them would be nice):
  dev-embedded/icdprog
  dev-embedded/pikdev
  dev-embedded/xgpasm
 Sent to dev-embedded herd.

Same here. I'm happy fixing and bumping stuff in dev-embedded but I do
not have access to any hardware anymore. So anyone is welcome to help
and join this herd too.

Denis.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: scm eclasses/ebuilds and revision logging

2008-01-14 Thread Bernd Steinhauser
I did now try this for a while and it works quite good, it only has one
problem. If the package gets unmerged, for whatever reason, then the
file will be unmerged. I know, that it is possible to keep dirs, but is
it possible to keep files (without touching them manually outside portage)?

Bernd

Ryan Hill schrieb:
 Bernd Steinhauser wrote:
 I'm aware of the fact, that the revision of the currently installed
 package is part of the environment and that is saved, but I'm not only
 interested in the revision of the currently installed version, but also
 in the revision of the previously installed version. Just wanted to
 emphasize that again. ;)

 Hope someone comes up with some good ideas. ;)
 
 Would something like this work for you?
 
 pkg_preinst() {
 local pkgdate=$(date +%Y%m%d %H:%M:%S)
 subversion_wc_info
 if [[ -n ${PORT_SCMDIR} ]]; then
 [[ -e ${ROOT}/${PORT_SCMDIR}/${PN}.revision ]] \
  cp ${ROOT}/${PORT_SCMDIR}/${PN}.revision ${T}
 echo ${pkgdate} - ${P} was merged at revision
 ${ESVN_WC_REVISION} \
  ${T}/${PN}.revision
 insinto ${PORT_SCMDIR}
 doins ${T}/${PN}.revision
 fi
 }
 
 that's for subversion of course.  set PORT_SCMDIR in make.conf.
 
 

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Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flag documentation

2008-01-14 Thread Vlastimil Babka

Santiago M. Mola wrote:

But stuff like aac needs encode  and cdio conflicts with
cdparanoia should be something separate from USE flag documentation.


Well, at least until it's handled at ebuild level, local USE flag 
documentation can be used to explain the implications to the user 
beforehand (ewarns work too, but only after user tries to actually 
install the package).


VB
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages needing new maintainers, redux

2008-01-14 Thread Robin H. Johnson
On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 09:03:22AM +0100, Denis Dupeyron wrote:
 On Jan 14, 2008 4:12 AM, Robin H. Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Networking, admin tool for some networked printers and JetDirect-style 
   adapter
   boxes:
   net-print/npadmin
  printing herd, can you take this?
 Sure, but as long as none of us as such hardware we can only do basic
 maintenance. This is a not-so-hidden call to anybody with this and
 other printing hardware to join the net-print herd to help us.
No releases for 7.5 years. So only bitrot to worry about it.
I used to have a supported printer, but that was years ago.

-- 
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Gentoo Linux Developer  Infra Guy
E-Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: USE flag documentation

2008-01-14 Thread Vlastimil Babka

Ryan Hill wrote:

What do people think of this?

a) Keep use.desc as it is:  a list of common flags and a short general 
description of their meaning.


Good.

b) Keep use.local.desc as it is: a list of per-package flags that are 
specific to one to a few ebuilds (i think 5 is the number though i think 
10 is more appropriate, but that's not relevant to this discussion).  
Again, each has a short description.


c) Allow flags from use.desc to also exist in use.local.desc.  In the 
case that a flag for a package exists in both, the use.local.desc 
description overrides the use.desc one.  This allows a more specific 
per-package description of global flags.


Good.

d) Allow long descriptions in a package's metadata.xml, as some have 
begun to do already, for cases where more info is needed.  For example 
I'd like to explain exactly what the bindist flag on freetype does and 
what legal implications disabling it can have.


Right. Also why not also add short descriptions there, and deprecate 
use.local.desc when tools are converted? Placing package-local info to 
global files (when not needed to distinguish profiles as with 
package.use.mask etc) is icky.
Note that the metadata.xml should be able to record per-version 
differences somehow.


On the other hand, if there are any far-reaching changes we need made to 
the USE flag system - any features we wish we had or misfeatures we wish 
we didn't - now would be a good time to address them.


I wish for use deps :P
Well, addressing conflicts and implications between flags at ebuild/PM 
level would be also nice, but really shouldn't affect the way 
documentation is handled, IMHO.


VB
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[gentoo-dev] Council meeting summary 20080110

2008-01-14 Thread Markus Ullmann

Hi all,

here is the summary from last week's council meeting.
The complete log can be found at http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/

Thanks,
Markus
Roll call
-

(here, proxy [by whom] or slacker?)

amnehere
betelgeuse  here
dberkholz   proxy [musikc]
flameeyes   here
lu_zero here 
vapier  here
jokey   here 

Agenda
--

GLEP 54: scm package version suffix
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/glep/glep-0054.html

GLEP 55: Use EAPI-suffixed ebuilds (.ebuild-EAPI)
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/glep/glep-0055.html

Code of Conduct enforcement 
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.council/82
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/meeting-logs/20071108-summary.txt
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/meeting-logs/20071213-summary.txt

- What needs to happen for us to make a decision?

Last week, we agreed to just add moderators to #gentoo-dev and the
gentoo-dev list. Other places with their own moderation should enforce 
the
CoC themselves. We also agreed that moderation must be handed over to 
devrel
or userrel after 2 days.

Ferris asked some questions:
1)  Do we have an implementation schedule? ;
2)  Have we identified some warm bodies for it?;
3)  Most devrel requests seem really to relate to CoC 
violations.  Would
you like us to bounce those to the CoC people, process them 
using CoC
rules, or keep doing what we are doing now (generally, close 
them with a
note explaining why or mediate them)?  (I'm talking about the 
He's
being rude/sarcastic/disrespectful sorts of things which 
really need to
be processed immediately and merit a warning or brief 
suspension if
anything.)

Slacker arches
See Caleb's post on -dev and subsequent thread
Calebs post:
  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/53933
Kumba's comment on mips status:
  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/54168
Rich0's proposal:
  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/54103


Document of being an active developer
Araujo raised that he needs some kind of written document of being an
active developer. Argument being that mentioning in CV in his
environment is only accepted if there is some kind of proof.
Our trustee grant deferred it back to council+infra as Foundation only
handles IP, but suggested it could be some kind of generated document.


===

GLEP 54 : Postponed to -dev ML
---
Comment from portage maintainer:
- no statement about compatibility/implementation plans
- more subjective:
  - while a distinction between CPV and atom may not be technically
required, I might be useful to have
  - (minor) if the version part is optionl there could be some
complications

So is this something we'd like to have?

Other ideas that came up during discussion:
- -scm or _scm ?
- handling as (-|_pre)) versions per definition
- implement as dynamic package sets

Related bugs:
- bug #9202 - Better support for CVS Ebuilds...

Pushed back to -dev ML as there are too many unresolved questions at
the moment. peper is given the task to repost it and expand on
usefulness / use cases as well as compatibility issues.

GLEP 55 : Postponed to -dev ML
---
- Agreement on eapi subdirectories are not feasible

Ideas during discussion:
- moving from EAPI= to eapi function and using repository bashrc for
  compatibility

Pushed back to -dev ML as there are too many unresolved questions at
the moment.

Slacker arches
--
vapier will work on rich0's suggestion and repost it for discussion on
-dev ML

Code of Conduct enforcement
---
Council members agreed on the direction, dberkholz will provide
additional details on -council ML

Document of being an active developer
-
Suggested options:
 - Log in to dev.g.o and automatically generate there signed by
   infra-maintained key, put userinfo.xml website in the doc as
   reference.

 dberkholz and araujo will look into a scribus based template.
 devrel will have to generate a signing key for these purposes.


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[gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey

2008-01-14 Thread Robin H. Johnson
Ok, so per the one discussion in #-dev this evening, I'm looking for
questions to put on a new user survey.

For style of questions, multiple choice (both pick-one and pick-many) or
simple integers would be best. However some freeform questions are
probably going to end up in there anyway. 'Prefer not to answer' and 'I
don't know' should be available in most questions.

I don't have the original questions on hand right now (but i'm trying to
get them), so used some classical census questions. Some of the ones I
threw in are just what came to mind, I'd love to hear more questions and
more sections.

In the style of census, maybe offering a short form and a long form
questionnaire would be useful too?

Basic demographics - a bunch of this should probably be optional but recommended
- Gender (M, F, and the various other forms here)
- Year of birth
- # of children??
- How many years have you been using computers?

Sociocultural information (again, optional stuff):
- Location (country, and free-form city)
- Level of education?
- Job? (type coding this one is hard, and I'd prefer not to have it)
- Income level

Computer-general questions:
- Do you program?
- Checkboxes for some programming languages

Usage of Gentoo:
- Home
- School
- Work
- Other

(usage spawns the following set of questions)

Home/School/Work/Other systems:
- # of server/desktop/laptop/embedded systems?
- Language of system
- What arches, stable/testing keywords?
- Time spent weekly administering your $TYPE systems
- Sync frequency
- Do you share your portage tree between systems
- Do you share your distfiles between systems
- Do you share your binpkgs between systems
- Window Manager
- Kernel
- System specs (maybe follow the Value surveys for some questions)
- Distro breakdowns (folks that don't have exclusively Gentoo systems)
- Ask about existence and usage of digital camera, web cam, media
  player, printer, scanner etc with Gentoo (need a list, maybe see the
  Linux Foundation survey)
(Work specific)
- How many other users of Gentoo does your organization have?
- Name of organization (coupled with the previous question to weed out
  dupes)

Release-related questions:
- Should CD media be released at a different rate than stage tarballs?
- Desired release frequency for minimal/livecd/GRP/stages (annual,
  bi-annual, quarterly, monthly, weekly?)
- Do you use the installer or install by hand? (need an other field here)
- How often do you use the media?
- How often do you install Gentoo (using the stage tarballs or the
  installer)?
- Do you use GRP? 
- Would you like to use GRP in future?
- Binhost questions maybe?
- Do you use the portage snapshot associated with the release or the
  latest available snapshot or other?
- Do you use a Gentoo derivative? (give a list with an other option)

Portage-related questions:
(portage team, maybe you can help here?)

Distro-related questions (these two are from the original survey, but i
added more choices):
- Why choose Gentoo
- package manager
- package repository
- customization
- optimization
- community
- free as in beer
- free as in speech
- other (fill-in)
- Distro needs (with a justification text area)
- Installer progress
- Enterprise-level systems (slow-moving tree)
- Embedded linux systems
- More/less packages
- Hardware support

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux Developer  Infra Guy
E-Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[gentoo-dev] Beyond the users, doing a developer census

2008-01-14 Thread Robin H. Johnson
While we can't get every single Gentoo user out there to participate in
a survey, we should be able to get much better results out of taking a
census of the developers (and hopefully some of the ex-developers as
well).

To that end, beyond the user survey questions thread, I'd like to hear
suggestions for questions specifically aimed at developers. This would
also be a much stricter one dev one set of results (no multiple entries,
probably defended in some fashion similar to the voting).

Wishlist for a developer census:

Demographics:
- marital status
- ages of children?
- profession
- When did you join/leave Gentoo (we don't have this info for some devs)

About working on Gentoo and Linux:
- Are you specifically paid to work on Gentoo?
- Do you spend some paid time on Gentoo anyway?
- Employer (if the above questions are yes)
- Do you get paid to work on Linux / use linux at work (if
  negative to Gentoo)
- How much time do you spend working on Gentoo?

-- 
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Gentoo Linux Developer  Infra Guy
E-Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey

2008-01-14 Thread Rémi Cardona

Robin H. Johnson a écrit :

Ok, so per the one discussion in #-dev this evening, I'm looking for
questions to put on a new user survey.


[snip]

Your survey summed up pretty well all the questions we came up with this 
morning. Thanks for putting it all in ink :)


Cheers,

Rémi
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages up for grabs

2008-01-14 Thread Stefaan
  - media-libs/libdc1394
  - media-video/coriander

I'm picking up these two at least...

Stefaan
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey

2008-01-14 Thread Santiago M. Mola
On Jan 14, 2008 1:33 PM, Robin H. Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Ok, so per the one discussion in #-dev this evening, I'm looking for
 questions to put on a new user survey.

An interesting question would be Which package manager do you use?.

-- 
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Jabber ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey

2008-01-14 Thread Robert Buchholz
On Monday, 14. January 2008, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
 Ok, so per the one discussion in #-dev this evening, I'm looking for
 questions to put on a new user survey.

 For style of questions, multiple choice (both pick-one and pick-many) or
 simple integers would be best. However some freeform questions are
 probably going to end up in there anyway. 'Prefer not to answer' and 'I
 don't know' should be available in most questions.

 I don't have the original questions on hand right now (but i'm trying to
 get them), so used some classical census questions. Some of the ones I
 threw in are just what came to mind, I'd love to hear more questions and
 more sections.

Just some ideas:

Usage of Gentoo Services
 (could be differentiated between read only and have an account)
 - Forums
 - Bugzilla
 - Planet Larry
 - Mailing Lists (more differentiated)

 (for read-only)
 - Planet Gentoo
 - Gentoo *ly Newsletter
 - Handbook
 - Other Docs
 - Security Announcements (GLSA)
   -- maybe: If so, how? (Forums, Website, RSS, Announce List, glsa-check)

 - External Gentoo-related sites:
  - Gentoo-Wiki.com
  - ...?

* Do you use overlays? (If so, which?)

Robert


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey

2008-01-14 Thread Richard Freeman

Santiago M. Mola wrote:

On Jan 14, 2008 1:33 PM, Robin H. Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Ok, so per the one discussion in #-dev this evening, I'm looking for
questions to put on a new user survey.


An interesting question would be Which package manager do you use?.



Along those lines I'd be curious as to what people are using to handle 
etc-update-like tasks.


Knowing what our users use tells us what we should or shouldn't bother 
supporting.


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[gentoo-dev] app-misc/beagle (temporary?) maintainer wanted

2008-01-14 Thread Daniel Drake

Hi,

I'm the current beagle maintainer but am struggling to find the time 
needed for the simple maintenance efforts required. Is anyone interested 
in taking over here?


A prospective developer (bheekling) would be interested in maintaining 
this package in future, but right now he does not have enough time for 
the recruitment process. He does plan to get recruited later, and he's 
helping out on existing bugs at the moment. Anyone interested in 
stepping up in the meantime, perhaps just proxy-maintainership style?


Thanks,
Daniel
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[gentoo-dev] www-apps/b2evolution maintainer wanted

2008-01-14 Thread Daniel Drake

Hi,

Is anyone interested in taking the b2evolution blog engine webapp off my 
back? Steve Dibb has been doing almost all of the planet maintenance for 
the last eon, and I don't really have an easy environment to test new 
ebuilds etc.


Thanks,
Daniel
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey

2008-01-14 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 04:33 -0800, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
 Release-related questions:
 - Should CD media be released at a different rate than stage tarballs?
 - Desired release frequency for minimal/livecd/GRP/stages (annual,
   bi-annual, quarterly, monthly, weekly?)
 - Do you use the installer or install by hand? (need an other field here)

This question would be interesting, though a little moot.  With future
releases, we're making the Installer binary-only.  The reason is simple,
there are too many possible failure opportunities in the live tree or
when building from source.  The number of installer bugs that are
simply compilation bugs (many of which are already fixed in newer
versions/revisions in the tree) is overwhelming compared to the actual
number of bugs in the Installer.  By making it binary only, we only
allow the Installer to use known-good input for producing a user's
system.  All networked installs will be manual, and will follow the
Handbook.  I've thought of producing a simple default source-based
install script that allows someone to still use a source-based and
current installation, without having to type in a bunch of commands.  I
don't know how well this would be received, but it could be something
that you could ask here.

 - How often do you use the media?

Which media do you use? (minimal, universal, livecd, livedvd)

Which version do you use? (So many people tell me things like, I still
use a $version CD, so I think it would be useful...)

 - How often do you install Gentoo (using the stage tarballs or the
   installer)?
 - Do you use GRP? 
 - Would you like to use GRP in future?
 - Binhost questions maybe?
 - Do you use the portage snapshot associated with the release or the
   latest available snapshot or other?
 - Do you use a Gentoo derivative? (give a list with an other option)

What features do you think are lacking on Gentoo install media? (free
form)

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Games Developer


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Re: [gentoo-dev] USE flag documentation

2008-01-14 Thread Mark Loeser
Piotr Jaroszyński [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 Tbh, I don't have any issues with the current solution, but I may be missing 
 something. Rationale doesn't seem to help though, afaics it is just saying 
 that the current behaviour  needs to be documented and fwiw PMS draft covers 
 this already:
 http://dev.gentoo.org/~spb/pms.pdf - section 3.4.3

Which is fine, but PMS is just a draft.  I'm trying to see if everyone
can accept one solution, instead of throwing things into metadata.xml
and into use.local.desc without the process being documented in one place.
This is more of a proposal to see if we should even change how we do things
today.  Maybe we shouldn't, and that's what I'm trying to figure out...

  http://dev.gentoo.org/~halcy0n/gleps/glep-0054.html
 
 Please, don't use an already assigned GLEP number, it's a bit confusing. Note 
 that 55 is taken as well.

It wasn't taken when I first sent it (as far as I know).  I forgot to
change before resending.  Thanks for reminding me.

Thanks,

-- 
Mark Loeser
email -   halcy0n AT gentoo DOT org
email -   mark AT halcy0n DOT com
web   -   http://www.halcy0n.com


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: USE flag documentation

2008-01-14 Thread Mark Loeser
Ryan Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 a) Keep use.desc as it is:  a list of common flags and a short general 
 description of their meaning.

Sounds good.

 b) Keep use.local.desc as it is: a list of per-package flags that are 
 specific to one to a few ebuilds (i think 5 is the number though i think 10 
 is more appropriate, but that's not relevant to this discussion).  Again, 
 each has a short description.

Also fine.

 c) Allow flags from use.desc to also exist in use.local.desc.  In the case 
 that a flag for a package exists in both, the use.local.desc description 
 overrides the use.desc one.  This allows a more specific per-package 
 description of global flags.

Still doing alright :)

 d) Allow long descriptions in a package's metadata.xml, as some have begun 
 to do already, for cases where more info is needed.  For example I'd like 
 to explain exactly what the bindist flag on freetype does and what legal 
 implications disabling it can have.

Why can't this be done in use.local.desc?

-- 
Mark Loeser
email -   halcy0n AT gentoo DOT org
email -   mark AT halcy0n DOT com
web   -   http://www.halcy0n.com


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey

2008-01-14 Thread Donnie Berkholz
On 04:33 Mon 14 Jan , Robin H. Johnson wrote:
 Ok, so per the one discussion in #-dev this evening, I'm looking for
 questions to put on a new user survey.
 
 For style of questions, multiple choice (both pick-one and pick-many) or
 simple integers would be best. However some freeform questions are
 probably going to end up in there anyway. 'Prefer not to answer' and 'I
 don't know' should be available in most questions.

A lot of the suggested questions are hard facts. Some of them will 
indicate usage to suggest where we might focus, but they mostly won't 
indicate opinions. This means, for example, that people might say 
they're using Gentoo for a server but they won't be able to express how 
well it works.

I would like to see a lot more ratings and scales, for example:

How well does Gentoo as a whole meet your needs?
Perfectly
Extremely well
Fairly well
Not that well
Poorly

Rate the following, on a 1-10 scale (or a perfect to poor scale)

Gentoo's official documentation

Unofficial documentation (forums, wiki, etc)
Forums
Wiki

Are you able to find solutions for Gentoo-related issues on Google
or other search engines?
Always
Usually
Sometimes
Rarely
Never

Robert Buchholz said we should ask about services usage. I also think we 
should ask people to rate those services.


Other questions, that might address issues like our future goals as a 
distribution and will probably involve open-ended portions?

What do you think of Gentoo's future?
It looks bright to I'm installing Ubuntu right now
What is Gentoo best at right now?
What should Gentoo be best at?
What is Gentoo worst at right now?
What should Gentoo stop focusing on?
What hurts Gentoo the most?


Thanks,
Donnie
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey; releng related

2008-01-14 Thread Brent Baude
If the topic of frequent releases is put onto the survey, I would like 
to know what users anticipate as part of the new releases because new 
releases are based on the tree itself.  It has been a while since I have 
used a binary distribution, but when I did, I looked forward to new 
releases because new versions of X and Y were generally tied to it; 
which is not usually the case with Gentoo except where profiles dictate 
that.  Is the motivation for more releases in part the expectation of 
more features?  If so, also collecting their suggestions for a features 
list would be helpful. 

Also helpful would be making sure the user input on releases reflected 
all archs he/she uses.



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey

2008-01-14 Thread likewhoa
Here are some questions I would like answered.

Do you use gentoo at home or office?
 Home
 Office
 Both
 I don't use gentoo

What percentage of your business is running gentoo?
 10%
 25%
 50%
 75%
 100%
 none of the above or 0%

How often would you like releases?
 every six months
 every 3 months
 once a year
 whenever

Which DE/WM would you prefer for the gentoo livecd instead of the one
provided?
 Kde
 Xfce
 Fluxbox
 E16
 Fvwm
 Gnome
 Other

How often do you emerge --sync?
 every day
 once a week
 once a month
 every six months
 none of the above

How often do you update your system  world packages?
 every day
 once a week
 once a month
 every six months
 none of the above

How often do you housekeeping on your system i.e revdep-rebuild,--deepcleanetc?
 every day
 once a week
 once a month
 every six months
 none of the above

Who would you recommend gentoo to?
 Friend
 Colleague
 Business partner
 Clients
 Everybody!
 Nobody

Do you consider yourself to be a?
 Advance Gentoo user.
 Novice
 Intermediate
 Noob
 Troll
 None of the above

What GPU are you using with Gentoo?
 ATI
 Nvidia
 Other

What aspect of gentoo would you like see improved?
 Multimedia
 Graphics
 Video
 Security
 Network  Services
 http://gentoo-wiki.com/Index:HOWTO#Networks_.26_Services Gaming
 Emulators
 Kernel
 Developer Community
 Other

What platform do you run gentoo on?
 AMD64
 X86
 Sparc
 ARM
 Alpha
 Hppa
 Ia64
 Mips
 PPC

Do you dual-boot if so with what OS?
 Windows XP
 Windows 98
 Windows 2000
 Windows NT
 BSD
 Unix
 OSX
 Other

How did you come across gentoo?
 Friend told me
 Business collegue
 Distrowatch
 Forums
 Article
 Little blue bird told me
 Other

Do they use grp packages?
 Yes
 No
 What is grp?
 Sometimes
 Never

Which livecd(s) do they prefer?
 Gentoo livecd-2007.0
 Sabayon livecd
 Sysresccd
 Knoppix
 My own
 Other

Do you think commercial packages should be part of the main tree?
 Yes
 No
 Why not
 Never!
 in unofficial overlay
 Dunno

When did you start using gentoo?
 2002
 2003
 2004
 2005
 2006
 2007
 Yesterday
 Just Now

How often should GWN be updated?
 once a week
 everyday
 every month
 every six months
 what is GWN?

Should gentoo have it's own WIKI?
 Yes
 No
 Merge gentoo-wiki instead.

Which package manager are you currently testing?
 Paludis
 Pkgcore

Which package manager are you using instead of portage?
 Paludis
 Pkgcore
 I 3 Portage!!!

Do you like the Gentoo Linux Installer (GLI)?
 Yes
 No
 Never heard of it

How well in-touch do you think dev's are with users?
 Very Good
 Not so Good
 Not at all
 No connection
 None of the above

Well that's all the questions I can come up with and that others
recommended, they are not sorted in any particular way either. I hope this
helps and I would appreciate respectable feedback and criticism instead of
flames and bighead comments.

Thank you.
Fernando a.k.a likewhoa
9188B8D8


Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey

2008-01-14 Thread Qian Qiao
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

likewhoa wrote:
 Here are some questions I would like answered.
 
 Do you use gentoo at home or office?
 Home
 Office
 Both
 I don't use gentoo
 
 What percentage of your business is running gentoo?
 10%
 25%
 50%
 75%
 100%
 none of the above or 0%
 
 How often would you like releases?
 every six months
 every 3 months
 once a year
 whenever
 
 Which DE/WM would you prefer for the gentoo livecd instead of the one
 provided?
 Kde
 Xfce
 Fluxbox
 E16
 Fvwm
 Gnome
 Other
 
 How often do you emerge --sync?
 every day
 once a week
 once a month
 every six months
 none of the above
 
 How often do you update your system  world packages?
 every day
 once a week
 once a month
 every six months
 none of the above
 
 How often do you housekeeping on your system i.e revdep-rebuild,--
 deepclean etc?
 every day
 once a week
 once a month
 every six months
 none of the above
 
 Who would you recommend gentoo to?
 Friend
 Colleague
 Business partner
 Clients
 Everybody!
 Nobody
 
 Do you consider yourself to be a?
 Advance Gentoo user.
 Novice
 Intermediate
 Noob
 Troll
 None of the above
 
 What GPU are you using with Gentoo?
 ATI
 Nvidia
 Other
 
 What aspect of gentoo would you like see improved?
 Multimedia
 Graphics
 Video
 Security
 Network  Services
 http://gentoo-wiki.com/Index:HOWTO#Networks_.26_Services
 Gaming
 Emulators
 Kernel
 Developer Community
 Other
 
 What platform do you run gentoo on?
 AMD64
 X86
 Sparc
 ARM
 Alpha
 Hppa
 Ia64
 Mips
 PPC
 
 Do you dual-boot if so with what OS?
 Windows XP
 Windows 98
 Windows 2000
 Windows NT
 BSD
 Unix
 OSX
 Other
 
 How did you come across gentoo?
 Friend told me
 Business collegue
 Distrowatch
 Forums
 Article
 Little blue bird told me
 Other
 
 Do they use grp packages?
 Yes
 No
 What is grp?
 Sometimes
 Never
 
 Which livecd(s) do they prefer?
 Gentoo livecd-2007.0
 Sabayon livecd
 Sysresccd
 Knoppix
 My own
 Other
 
 Do you think commercial packages should be part of the main tree?
 Yes
 No
 Why not
 Never!
 in unofficial overlay
 Dunno
 
 When did you start using gentoo?
 2002
 2003
 2004
 2005
 2006
 2007
 Yesterday
 Just Now
 
 How often should GWN be updated?
 once a week
 everyday
 every month
 every six months
 what is GWN?
 
 Should gentoo have it's own WIKI?
 Yes
 No
 Merge gentoo-wiki instead.
 
 Which package manager are you currently testing?
 Paludis
 Pkgcore
 
 Which package manager are you using instead of portage?
 Paludis
 Pkgcore
 I 3 Portage!!!
 
 Do you like the Gentoo Linux Installer (GLI)?
 Yes
 No
 Never heard of it
 
 How well in-touch do you think dev's are with users?
 Very Good
 Not so Good
 Not at all
 No connection
 None of the above
 
 Well that's all the questions I can come up with and that others
 recommended, they are not sorted in any particular way either. I hope
 this helps and I would appreciate respectable feedback and criticism
 instead of flames and bighead comments.
 
 Thank you.
 Fernando a.k.a likewhoa
 9188B8D8

Here's another:

How often do you get asked not to post in HTML in mailing lists because
some people happenened to use clients that don't like HTML?
 Once a day
 Once every 3 days
 Once a week
 Once a month
 Once a year
 Fxxk others, I don't give a s**t, I post HTML because I can, I won't
give a rat's a** whether you can read it.
 What is html?

- -- Joe

- --
A computer scientist is someone who, when told go to hell, considers
the go to harmful rather than the destination.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] app-misc/beagle (temporary?) maintainer wanted

2008-01-14 Thread Petteri Räty

Daniel Drake kirjoitti:

Hi,

I'm the current beagle maintainer but am struggling to find the time 
needed for the simple maintenance efforts required. Is anyone interested 
in taking over here?


A prospective developer (bheekling) would be interested in maintaining 
this package in future, but right now he does not have enough time for 
the recruitment process. He does plan to get recruited later, and he's 
helping out on existing bugs at the moment. Anyone interested in 
stepping up in the meantime, perhaps just proxy-maintainership style?


Thanks,
Daniel


I can proxy maintain it.

Regards,
Petteri



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Re: [gentoo-dev] sqlite/sqlite3 useflag inconsistency

2008-01-14 Thread Petteri Räty

Benedikt Morbach kirjoitti:


In my humble opinion it would be nice to have a greater degree of
control by separating this into two useflags, sqlite2 and sqlite3,
just like e.g. qt3 and qt4



Probably. Even better would be to get rid of sqlite2 but that probably 
doesn't happen any time soon.


Regards,
Petteri



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey

2008-01-14 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Monday 14 January 2008, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
 Ok, so per the one discussion in #-dev this evening, I'm looking for
 questions to put on a new user survey.

*cough* -project *cough*
-mike


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey

2008-01-14 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 22:53 +, likewhoa wrote:
 Which DE/WM would you prefer for the gentoo livecd instead of the one
 provided?
  Kde 
  Xfce 
  Fluxbox
  E16
  Fvwm 
  Gnome
  Other

Can I suggest that we not ask anything that we likely won't change?  I
have a strong feeling that KDE would win out here, but there's *NO WAY*
that we can fit KDE on a LiveCD with the other stuff.  When we were
planning 2007.1, we had decided to switch to Xfce, simply because of the
space savings.  Cramming a lot of useful stuff onto 700MB is *not* an
easy task.  Space is our biggest enemy here.  Were we to drop the LiveCD
fully in favor of the LiveDVD, then I could see this as (somewhat)
valid, as all of those Window Managers/Desktop Environments are already
shipped on the LiveDVD (except FVWM).  I'm not too interested in
people's opinions for the defaults on a media set that includes them all
and each is only a click or two away, though, as it doesn't really add
anything to what we provide.  If it weren't for the size constraints,
I'd love to know what people prefer on the CD, so I don't want anyone to
think that we don't care.  We do.  We just are limited by a hard size
limit than we cannot do anything about and have to act accordingly.

 Do they use grp packages?
  Yes
  No
  What is grp?
  Sometimes
  Never

Definitely word this in a manner so people know what you're referring
to.  I would say something more along the lines of Do you use the
Installer in Networkless mode or GRP packages when installing your
system?

 Which livecd(s) do they prefer?
  Gentoo livecd-2007.0
  Sabayon livecd
  Sysresccd
  Knoppix
  My own
  Other

Be sure to list the Minimal CD and the Universal CD, as well as the
LiveCD, and also list the LiveDVD.  We'll have to relate this data to
the architecture used when we try to make anything useful out of it, but
it'll be more accurate, as I definitely want to know *which* Gentoo
media people are using.  I would also add something like an older
Gentoo CD to the mix.

 Do you think commercial packages should be part of the main tree?
  Yes
  No
  Why not
  Never!
  in unofficial overlay
  Dunno

Is this something that we really even want to ask?  I mean, if we're all
about trying to provide the best user experience, then binary packages
are almost a requirement, especially with binary packages that were
originally targeted at specific binary distributions.  I tend to see
this as one of those religious issues that is best left alone, like
emacs versus vi.

 How often should GWN be updated?
  once a week
  everyday
  every month
  every six months
  what is GWN?

Again, you're asking something that I don't think that we should be
asking.  We couldn't get content even though we begged and pleaded for
it.  No offense meant to anyone, but I don't care if people want a daily
newsletter.  If we cannot get enough content, we cannot get enough
content.  No survey is going to change that, and asking a question like
this gives the impression that the user's opinion will make a
difference, when it likely will not.  I'd much rather not ask questions
that the users are going to feel like they were ignored than ask them
and not make any changes based on the answers.  Of course, if you're
volunteering to pick up the slack and write any necessary articles to
make it happen at the interval decided by our users, well, I completely
welcome it, then... ;]

 Do you like the Gentoo Linux Installer (GLI)?
  Yes
  No
  Never heard of it

I'd like to see the answers to this one, but I have a feeling that
everybody has a love/hate relationship with this.  They either love it,
or they hate it.  I also tend to think that *many* people have an
opinion on the Installer without ever even using it.  As such, I don't
think that we'd get any usable results out of this, but it'll still be
fun to ask.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Games Developer


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[gentoo-dev] Re: Seeking questions for a user survey

2008-01-14 Thread Duncan
likewhoa [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted
[EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted
below, on  Mon, 14 Jan 2008 22:53:38 +:

 How often do you update your system  world packages?
 every day
 once a week
 once a month
 every six months
 none of the above

Make these time based ones once or more, so there's no holes between 
the ranges (altho they'll technically overlap).  Otherwise, those of us 
doing system upkeep 2-3 times a period will have a hard time trying to 
figure out what to mark. =8^)

(BTW, agree with the no HTML thing already mentioned...)

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master.  Richard Stallman

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Seeking questions for a user survey

2008-01-14 Thread likewhoa
yea I didn't mean to send HTML but i agree on the once or more suggestion
:)
thanks,

Fernando


On Jan 15, 2008 12:05 AM, Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 likewhoa [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted
 [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted
 below, on  Mon, 14 Jan 2008 22:53:38 +:

  How often do you update your system  world packages?
  every day
  once a week
  once a month
  every six months
  none of the above

 Make these time based ones once or more, so there's no holes between
 the ranges (altho they'll technically overlap).  Otherwise, those of us
 doing system upkeep 2-3 times a period will have a hard time trying to
 figure out what to mark. =8^)

 (BTW, agree with the no HTML thing already mentioned...)

 --
 Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
 Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
 and if you use the program, he is your master.  Richard Stallman

 --
 gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list




Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey

2008-01-14 Thread likewhoa
On Jan 15, 2008 12:16 AM, Chris Gianelloni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 22:53 +, likewhoa wrote:
  Which DE/WM would you prefer for the gentoo livecd instead of the one
  provided?
   Kde
   Xfce
   Fluxbox
   E16
   Fvwm
   Gnome
   Other

 Can I suggest that we not ask anything that we likely won't change?  I
 have a strong feeling that KDE would win out here, but there's *NO WAY*
 that we can fit KDE on a LiveCD with the other stuff.  When we were
 planning 2007.1, we had decided to switch to Xfce, simply because of the
 space savings.  Cramming a lot of useful stuff onto 700MB is *not* an
 easy task.  Space is our biggest enemy here.  Were we to drop the LiveCD
 fully in favor of the LiveDVD, then I could see this as (somewhat)
 valid, as all of those Window Managers/Desktop Environments are already
 shipped on the LiveDVD (except FVWM).  I'm not too interested in
 people's opinions for the defaults on a media set that includes them all
 and each is only a click or two away, though, as it doesn't really add
 anything to what we provide.  If it weren't for the size constraints,
 I'd love to know what people prefer on the CD, so I don't want anyone to
 think that we don't care.  We do.  We just are limited by a hard size
 limit than we cannot do anything about and have to act accordingly.

I totally agree with you on that and when I asked that question I only
wanted to see what people prefer and I don't expect users to demand a
change based on the survey question responce. I for one love to have
the livecd run on a WM vs a DE, but again I start the livecd with
'gentoo nox' most times. Maybe the livecd should run a WM and the
liveDVD can run the rest this would free up the livecd and give it
more room for other packages that are missing on the livecd, these
packages could be stuff like wifi tools,system rescue tools, benchmark
etc.




  Do they use grp packages?
   Yes
   No
   What is grp?
   Sometimes
   Never

 Definitely word this in a manner so people know what you're referring
 to.  I would say something more along the lines of Do you use the
 Installer in Networkless mode or GRP packages when installing your
 system?

Good way to put it, I was gonna add GRP - Gentoo Release Packages myself.




  Which livecd(s) do they prefer?
   Gentoo livecd-2007.0
   Sabayon livecd
   Sysresccd
   Knoppix
   My own
   Other

 Be sure to list the Minimal CD and the Universal CD, as well as the
 LiveCD, and also list the LiveDVD.  We'll have to relate this data to
 the architecture used when we try to make anything useful out of it, but
 it'll be more accurate, as I definitely want to know *which* Gentoo
 media people are using.  I would also add something like an older
 Gentoo CD to the mix.



  Do you think commercial packages should be part of the main tree?
   Yes
   No
   Why not
   Never!
   in unofficial overlay
   Dunno

 Is this something that we really even want to ask?  I mean, if we're all
 about trying to provide the best user experience, then binary packages
 are almost a requirement, especially with binary packages that were
 originally targeted at specific binary distributions.  I tend to see
 this as one of those religious issues that is best left alone, like
 emacs versus vi.

Yea commercial packages should maybe be part of overlays.gentoo.org so
that the tree can stay clean from these types of packages. But I agree
if it's decided not to included in the user survey.




  How often should GWN be updated?
   once a week
   everyday
   every month
   every six months
   what is GWN?

 Again, you're asking something that I don't think that we should be
 asking.  We couldn't get content even though we begged and pleaded for
 it.  No offense meant to anyone, but I don't care if people want a daily
 newsletter.  If we cannot get enough content, we cannot get enough
 content.  No survey is going to change that, and asking a question like
 this gives the impression that the user's opinion will make a
 difference, when it likely will not.  I'd much rather not ask questions
 that the users are going to feel like they were ignored than ask them
 and not make any changes based on the answers.  Of course, if you're
 volunteering to pick up the slack and write any necessary articles to
 make it happen at the interval decided by our users, well, I completely
 welcome it, then... ;]


  Do you like the Gentoo Linux Installer (GLI)?
   Yes
   No
   Never heard of it

 I'd like to see the answers to this one, but I have a feeling that
 everybody has a love/hate relationship with this.  They either love it,
 or they hate it.  I also tend to think that *many* people have an
 opinion on the Installer without ever even using it.  As such, I don't
 think that we'd get any usable results out of this, but it'll still be
 fun to ask.

I for one never used it so I can't really love or hate it but from
what people who have used it tells me to stay away from it because
I'll eventually hate it.




Re: [gentoo-dev] Beyond the users, doing a developer census

2008-01-14 Thread Iain Buchanan

On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 04:49 -0800, Robin H. Johnson wrote:

 - How much time do you spend working on Gentoo?

Is that using, developing for, or developing with?

-- 
Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au

Bower's Law:
Talent goes where the action is.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey; releng related

2008-01-14 Thread Iain Buchanan

On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 16:30 -0600, Brent Baude wrote:
 If the topic of frequent releases is put onto the survey, I would like 
 to know what users anticipate as part of the new releases because new 
 releases are based on the tree itself.  It has been a while since I have 
 used a binary distribution, but when I did, I looked forward to new 
 releases because new versions of X and Y were generally tied to it; 
 which is not usually the case with Gentoo except where profiles dictate 
 that.  Is the motivation for more releases in part the expectation of 
 more features?  If so, also collecting their suggestions for a features 
 list would be helpful. 

There is a thread on gentoo-user currently.  It started out about the
GWN, but it's been hijacked to talk about the install CD.  If you want
to know what / why users want the install CD, then read some of the
comments from here on:

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/192742

-- 
Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au

Bob Barker: Which one of these lovely womanoids will take home atomic tiara? 

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey

2008-01-14 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 00:34 +, likewhoa wrote:
   Do you think commercial packages should be part of the main tree?
Yes
No
Why not
Never!
in unofficial overlay
Dunno
 
  Is this something that we really even want to ask?  I mean, if we're all
  about trying to provide the best user experience, then binary packages
  are almost a requirement, especially with binary packages that were
  originally targeted at specific binary distributions.  I tend to see
  this as one of those religious issues that is best left alone, like
  emacs versus vi.
 
 Yea commercial packages should maybe be part of overlays.gentoo.org so
 that the tree can stay clean from these types of packages. But I agree
 if it's decided not to included in the user survey.

I look at it very differently.  One of the main advantages to Gentoo is
being source-based.  This allows us to ship packages in our repository
for binary and commercial packages that would otherwise be impossible in
a binary distribution.  Remember, we don't actually ship the commercial
software.  We ship a bash script (essentially) that tells how to install
the software.  As much as I like to appeal to zealots (hahaha, right), I
don't consider shipping a bash script telling how to install a product
to be *anything* like shipping said product, endorsing it, or anything
else license zealots will try to spout to justify the removal of GPL-2
code from our repository.

Many people don't consider overlays, even Gentoo-run ones, to be of
sufficient quality/support/whatever to be used on production systems.
These are the same systems and people that would most likely utilize
these commercial ebuilds.

Basically, it is removing the *option* to install these packages from
the people who would like to use them for the sake of the people who
*REFUSE* to use the packages and insist on their removal from the tree
simply because they don't like the license under which is was released.
I'm sorry, but if that's not against the idea of a free and open
community, I don't know what is.

You have the right to chose what licenses you wish to support and use
software which agrees with your ideals, but that doesn't give you the
right to *DENY* others to do the same.

Sorry, I just don't see it as a valid question, at all.

   Do you like the Gentoo Linux Installer (GLI)?
Yes
No
Never heard of it
 
  I'd like to see the answers to this one, but I have a feeling that
  everybody has a love/hate relationship with this.  They either love it,
  or they hate it.  I also tend to think that *many* people have an
  opinion on the Installer without ever even using it.  As such, I don't
  think that we'd get any usable results out of this, but it'll still be
  fun to ask.
 
 I for one never used it so I can't really love or hate it but from
 what people who have used it tells me to stay away from it because
 I'll eventually hate it.

Well, anybody who dislikes it because of bugs or a bad experience, I can
completely understand.  I was really speaking mostly of the people who
dislike the *idea* of an Installer for Gentoo, and then go and bash it
as much as they can without providing any real evidence or reasons,
except for the old faithful it's against the spirit of Gentoo reason,
which is a complete fallacy.  Again, Gentoo is about empowering the
users to make their own decisions.  No, I won't say Gentoo is about
choice, because that is *STUPID* in that it gives people an excuse to
argue about even the biggest piece of junk being added to our tree or
supported, as if we have to, to give them the choice.  Instead, I
prefer the concept of empowering the user to make their own choices,
where they can choose to add anything that they want in their personal
overlay, as we have given them the tools to do so.  Now, if a user wants
to use an Installer and someone wants to write the code, who are you (or
I) to say that they are in the wrong?  After all, isn't it that idea of
empowering the user *really* the spirit of Gentoo?

I think so.

 Thanks for the great feedback Chris Gianelloni

You're totally welcome.  Take what I've said here as my own opinion, of
course.

 Fernando
-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Games Developer


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Re: [gentoo-dev] sqlite/sqlite3 useflag inconsistency

2008-01-14 Thread Alin Năstac

Petteri Räty wrote:

Benedikt Morbach kirjoitti:


In my humble opinion it would be nice to have a greater degree of
control by separating this into two useflags, sqlite2 and sqlite3,
just like e.g. qt3 and qt4



Probably. Even better would be to get rid of sqlite2 but that probably 
doesn't happen any time soon.


I understood this will be the case, so I removed sqlite2 support from 
mail-filter/dspam even though it could support both versions.




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Re: [gentoo-dev] app-misc/beagle (temporary?) maintainer wanted

2008-01-14 Thread Shaochun Wang
On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 04:53:49PM +, Daniel Drake wrote:
 Hi,

 I'm the current beagle maintainer but am struggling to find the time needed 
 for the simple maintenance efforts required. Is anyone interested in taking 

I am interested in maintaining this package.

-- 
Shaochun Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-commits] gentoo-x86 commit in net-misc/zaptel: ChangeLog zaptel-1.2.22.1-r1.ebuild

2008-01-14 Thread Donnie Berkholz
On 05:34 Tue 15 Jan , Rajiv Aaron Manglani (rajiv) wrote:
 1.1  net-misc/zaptel/zaptel-1.2.22.1-r1.ebuild
 
 file : 
 http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo-x86/net-misc/zaptel/zaptel-1.2.22.1-r1.ebuild?rev=1.1view=markup
 plain: 
 http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo-x86/net-misc/zaptel/zaptel-1.2.22.1-r1.ebuild?rev=1.1content-type=text/plain

   # fix permissions if there's no udev around
   if [[ -d ${D}/dev/zap ]]; then
   chown -R root:dialout   ${D}/dev/zap
   chmod -R u=rwX,g=rwX,o= ${D}/dev/zap
   fi

You can check whether udev's around by looking for /dev/.udev -- that 
way you don't hack around with /dev files for no reason.

   # fix permissions if there's no udev around
   if [[ -d ${ROOT}dev/zap ]]; then
   chown -R root:dialout   ${ROOT}dev/zap
   chmod -R u=rwX,g=rwX,o= ${ROOT}dev/zap
   fi
 }

And again..

Thanks,
Donnie
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