Re: [gentoo-dev] How to force homedir on enewuser

2008-01-18 Thread Marius Mauch
On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 03:46:58 +0100
Hanno Böck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 What is the correct way to handle this? I'd suggest that enewuser might get 
 some force-parameter that tells it to delete and recreate the user if it 
 already exists. Thoughts?

Tell the user to do it manually in pkg_setup/postinst. This is
something that IMO shouldn't be done by the ebuild/package manager for
two reasons:
- extreme cornercase, or how often does this come up?
- the system might rely on the current settings in unexpected ways

Marius
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Upcoming Infra maintenance/downtimes: anon{cvs,svn,git}, archives, bouncer, overlays

2008-01-18 Thread Fabian Groffen
First and foremost: thanks for the work!

On 17-01-2008 13:47:28 -0800, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
 overlays.gentoo.org [3]:
 - Moving between machines
 - Git service is already on the new machine
 - Anonymous SVN is changing from http:// to svn://
 - Trac being replaced [2]
 
 Footnotes:
 1. You do not need to do a new checkout at all, you can use the
 following command to update your SVN repos:
 svn switch --relocate \
 http://anonsvn.gentoo.org/repositories/$REPO \
 svn://anonsvn.gentoo.org/$REPO

Would it be possible to have a transition period of 1 or 2 months for
the svn repo move?  The main problem for me is that Prefix users are on
a Portage tree from overlays (in SVN), which means if this switch is
done without transition they cannot update (emerge --sync) any more.
While this will result in some mail/bug activity, it might also leave
other people in the dark, ending up (needlessly) rebootstrapping.

If a transition period would be available, I could make Portage
alarm users to fix the SYNC variable to reflect the new URL.  I also
need to add/fix/change Portage's support for this new URL scheme.


-- 
Fabian Groffen
Gentoo on a different level
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Upcoming Infra maintenance/downtimes: anon{cvs,svn,git}, archives, bouncer, overlays

2008-01-18 Thread Robin H. Johnson
On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 09:37:35AM +0100, Fabian Groffen wrote:
 First and foremost: thanks for the work!
 
 On 17-01-2008 13:47:28 -0800, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
  overlays.gentoo.org [3]:
  - Moving between machines
  - Git service is already on the new machine
  - Anonymous SVN is changing from http:// to svn://
  - Trac being replaced [2]
  
  Footnotes:
  1. You do not need to do a new checkout at all, you can use the
  following command to update your SVN repos:
  svn switch --relocate \
  http://anonsvn.gentoo.org/repositories/$REPO \
  svn://anonsvn.gentoo.org/$REPO
 Would it be possible to have a transition period of 1 or 2 months for
 the svn repo move?  The main problem for me is that Prefix users are on
 a Portage tree from overlays (in SVN), which means if this switch is
 done without transition they cannot update (emerge --sync) any more.
 While this will result in some mail/bug activity, it might also leave
 other people in the dark, ending up (needlessly) rebootstrapping.
 
 If a transition period would be available, I could make Portage
 alarm users to fix the SYNC variable to reflect the new URL.  I also
 need to add/fix/change Portage's support for this new URL scheme.
You're syncing directly from overlays SVN-HTTP? I hope not with the sync
frequency of some of the other users out there.

As you support SVN already, you should just need to change the URL
(since you are just handing it to SVN), and run svn switch. But ok, I'll
give you 30 days for /repositories/alt/ once the new overlays box has
SVN. (Combined with a suitably large warning in the SVN browse view).

As a migration help, I have enabled the svn:// protocol on the old
overlays box, so you can make a start on getting your users converted.
svn://overlays.gentoo.org/proj/alt/

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux Developer  Infra Guy
E-Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
GnuPG FP   : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED  F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Upcoming Infra maintenance/downtimes: anon{cvs,svn,git}, archives, bouncer, overlays

2008-01-18 Thread Fabian Groffen
On 18-01-2008 01:21:21 -0800, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
  If a transition period would be available, I could make Portage
  alarm users to fix the SYNC variable to reflect the new URL.  I also
  need to add/fix/change Portage's support for this new URL scheme.
 You're syncing directly from overlays SVN-HTTP? I hope not with the sync
 frequency of some of the other users out there.

I have no other option, do I?  I requested rsync in some bug a while ago
with one of the reasons to reduce overlays' load.

 As you support SVN already, you should just need to change the URL
 (since you are just handing it to SVN), and run svn switch. But ok, I'll
 give you 30 days for /repositories/alt/ once the new overlays box has
 SVN. (Combined with a suitably large warning in the SVN browse view).

The problem is that emerge --sync obfuscates that SVN is being used
underneath.  Some (most?) users will not have a clue they are using SVN.

 As a migration help, I have enabled the svn:// protocol on the old
 overlays box, so you can make a start on getting your users converted.
 svn://overlays.gentoo.org/proj/alt/

Thanks, I'll priorise on that to get it rolling.  Thanks a lot!


-- 
Fabian Groffen
Gentoo on a different level
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Re: [gentoo-dev] How to force homedir on enewuser

2008-01-18 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Friday 18 January 2008, Marius Mauch wrote:
 Hanno Böck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  What is the correct way to handle this? I'd suggest that enewuser might
  get some force-parameter that tells it to delete and recreate the user
  if it already exists. Thoughts?

 Tell the user to do it manually in pkg_setup/postinst. This is
 something that IMO shouldn't be done by the ebuild/package manager for
 two reasons:
 - extreme cornercase, or how often does this come up?
 - the system might rely on the current settings in unexpected ways

right, there is no way (by design) to force these settings on an already 
created user.  if the old path really truly should not be the old value, you 
can do something like this in pkg_setup:
if [[ $(egetent passwd user | cut -d: -f6) == /the/old/path ]] ; then
eerror please run usermod -m -d /new/path ..
die moocow
fi
-mike


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Re: [gentoo-dev] How to force homedir on enewuser

2008-01-18 Thread Roy Marples

On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 06:41 -0500, Mike Frysinger wrote:
 right, there is no way (by design) to force these settings on an already 
 created user.  if the old path really truly should not be the old value, you 
 can do something like this in pkg_setup:
 if [[ $(egetent passwd user | cut -d: -f6) == /the/old/path ]] ; then
   eerror please run usermod -m -d /new/path ..
   die moocow
 fi

You should also ensure that ${ROOT} is /

Thanks

Roy

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Upcoming Infra maintenance/downtimes: anon{cvs,svn,git}, archives, bouncer, overlays

2008-01-18 Thread Fabian Groffen
On 18-01-2008 03:32:36 -0800, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
  The problem is that emerge --sync obfuscates that SVN is being used
  underneath.  Some (most?) users will not have a clue they are using SVN.
 How about rolling out a prefix-portage update that just kicks them into
 updating it?

That's exactly what I asked the transition period for.  I'll do this
asap.  I only need the little period for people to catch up and do it.
As long as the majority switches, it's all fine.

Since you enabled svn:// on the old box, I can already roll a version
out this weekend, so people are told to switch.  At the same time I can
update the bootstrap images/snapshot and scripts to use the new scheme,
and install a prefix-portage that uses/supports the new scheme.

Thanks.


-- 
Fabian Groffen
Gentoo on a different level
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Upcoming Infra maintenance/downtimes: anon{cvs,svn,git}, archives, bouncer, overlays

2008-01-18 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Thursday 17 January 2008, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
 anonvcs.gentoo.org: anoncvs, anonsvn, anongit
 - Anonymous SVN is changing from http:// to svn:// [1]
 overlays.gentoo.org [3]:
 - Anonymous SVN is changing from http:// to svn://

i'd point out that http:// syncing is usable from behind firewalls while 
svn:// is not ... while this does not affect me personally, it's something to 
keep in mind.
-mike


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Upcoming Infra maintenance/downtimes: anon{cvs,svn,git}, archives, bouncer, overlays

2008-01-18 Thread Robin H. Johnson
On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 10:46:28AM +0100, Fabian Groffen wrote:
 On 18-01-2008 01:21:21 -0800, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
   If a transition period would be available, I could make Portage
   alarm users to fix the SYNC variable to reflect the new URL.  I also
   need to add/fix/change Portage's support for this new URL scheme.
  You're syncing directly from overlays SVN-HTTP? I hope not with the sync
  frequency of some of the other users out there.
 I have no other option, do I?  I requested rsync in some bug a while ago
 with one of the reasons to reduce overlays' load.
Not really doable at the moment (but after some of the other pending
infra stuff, it is up for handling).

  As you support SVN already, you should just need to change the URL
  (since you are just handing it to SVN), and run svn switch. But ok, I'll
  give you 30 days for /repositories/alt/ once the new overlays box has
  SVN. (Combined with a suitably large warning in the SVN browse view).
 The problem is that emerge --sync obfuscates that SVN is being used
 underneath.  Some (most?) users will not have a clue they are using SVN.
How about rolling out a prefix-portage update that just kicks them into
updating it?

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux Developer  Infra Guy
E-Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
GnuPG FP   : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED  F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85


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[gentoo-dev] Re: Re: Seeking questions for a user survey

2008-01-18 Thread Steve Long
Joe Peterson wrote:

 On Thu, Jan 17, 2008 at 10:56:36AM +, Steve Long wrote:
 Ryan Hill wrote:
 I agree, though year of birth might be interesting.  Income and children
 are a bit too private.

 ++ in general although I do think parenthood (if responsible) is as
 relevant as age. A 28 year old with a 5 year old kid has a lot to show a
 35 year old doctoral student with no kids, even if it's not all
 technical. # of kids isn't relevant.
 
 Judging the maturity of users (or devs) by how many children they have
 (or indeed *if* they have children) is pretty questionable.  I know
 people who have kids and are pretty irresponsible (that's not to say
 most are, but one does not guarantee the other).  And I'd argue that
 someone with children does not necessarily have a lot to show someone
 without kids, unless it is the specific experience of childrearing.
 
 There are many people (myself and my wife included) who choose
 consciously not to have children.  It is becoming more and more a
 *choice* people can legitimately make rather than just an assumed part
 of life.  It is not selfish or immature, as some people think, so I'd be
 careful about implying that such a question gauges maturity.
 
My apologies if I caused you any offense, Joe. I fully agree that choosing
not to have children is just as mature as deciding to procreate, and more
mature than simply drifting into parenthood.

I suppose what I am getting at is the idea that there are others in Gentoo
besides young single males. A responsible parent or a committed spouse has
a very different perspective to a teenager. Certainly my perspective now at
37 is vastly different to when I was 18. Parenthood changed a great deal,
as did the earlier process of committing to marriage.

Which is not to denigrate people who chose not to marry; my godchildren's
parents were dead-set about their commitment to each other without a piece
of paper. I guess it's the change between being an individual and feeling a
commitment to someone else. And yeah maybe it's not something we need to
ask anyone, but it is good to consider that there are diverse perspectives
within the group.

In the same vein I asked on project wrt to number of female devs and was
told there are perhaps 3 or 4 iirc.


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[gentoo-dev] Re: Re: Seeking questions for a user survey

2008-01-18 Thread Steve Long
Robin H. Johnson wrote:

 On Thu, Jan 17, 2008 at 10:56:36AM +, Steve Long wrote:
 Ryan Hill wrote:
  I agree, though year of birth might be interesting.  Income and
  children are a bit too private.
  
 ++ in general although I do think parenthood (if responsible) is as
 relevant as age. A 28 year old with a 5 year old kid has a lot to show a
 35 year old doctoral student with no kids, even if it's not all
 technical. # of kids isn't relevant.
 I put # of kids in there as a lark, perhaps it might be better as 'do
 you have children', with an eye to seeing how it affects their package
 choices - see games and education packages for kids, plus the previous
 USE=offensive debate on the desktop backgrounds with scantily-clad
 woman.

Heh yeah, we often get people using inappropriate language in #gentoo-chat
and have to explain that, well some of us have children who can see the
screen. I highly recommend gcompris for anyone with younger kids btw.
 
 Maybe it's not something you want to ask the users, but it would be more
 interesting wrt devs, as would statistics on standard Equal Ops
 monitoring (a legal requirement on employers in the UK, even if the
 person declines to answer, which is ofc their right.)
 Go some good links on that? They might have good question wording we can
 borrow?
 
Can I firstly apologise as I appear to have misunderstood (I am not a
lawyer, I'm a coder.) The requirement is on public authorities and, I
think, publically funded organisations. I worked at a Students' Union (as
full-time staff) in the early 90s, and it was impressed upon me (when I sat
on an interview panel) that we had a legal obligation to actively *promote*
Equal Opportunities.

The main organisation in the UK for this now is the new Equality and Human
Rights Commission at http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/

Bradford University's Equality Unit have an excellent site at
http://www.brad.ac.uk/equality/
with policies and summary of relevant legislation at
http://www.brad.ac.uk/admin/equalopp/policies/
The Higher Education Funding Council for England's Equality and diversity
unit has a good site at: http://www.hefce.ac.uk/lgm/divers/

Employers have a duty under the legislation discussed above not to
discriminate. All of this comes under the umbrella term Equal
Opportunities, best-practise for which comes from the public-sector. It is
harder for larger organisations to defend a discrimination case if they do
not monitor aiui:
The purpose of monitoring is to enable you to examine how your policy and
action plan are working. If your policy is fully effective and has been in
operation for some time your workforce should be broadly representative of
the population of the geographical area from which it is drawn or
demonstrably moving in that direction. Monitoring enables you to assess
this.
http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=828
which is a good link to see what employers are advised to do.

Certainly the term An Equal Opportunities Employer has been in use for
years, and implies that there are policies and monitoring in place, as well
as a commitment to the promotion of EOPS.

HTH.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: Seeking questions for a user survey

2008-01-18 Thread likewhoa
I totally agree with not asking such personal questions which really
are not going to help the foundation, what we need to ask are
questions that relate to the distribution, it's developers  user
community as a whole. one question regarding children that I see as
being appropriate is:

Do children in your household use Gentoo?
 Yes
 No
 It's to complicated for them
 Prefer not to answer

Which games-* category need more additions?
 games-puzzles
 games-kids
 games-board
 games-fps
 games-strategy

Other questions regarding personal things, like age,spouses  income
are really for another type of survey, maybe a separate survey that
only developers will fill out, users will feel like you're asking to
much if asked those questions. We need to get questions that can help
identify what will improve Gentoo and it's inner structure.

Thanks,
Fernando a.k.a likewhoa

On Jan 18, 2008 7:41 AM, George Prowse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Steve Long wrote:
  Joe Peterson wrote:
 
  On Thu, Jan 17, 2008 at 10:56:36AM +, Steve Long wrote:
  Ryan Hill wrote:
  I agree, though year of birth might be interesting.  Income and children
  are a bit too private.
 
  ++ in general although I do think parenthood (if responsible) is as
  relevant as age. A 28 year old with a 5 year old kid has a lot to show a
  35 year old doctoral student with no kids, even if it's not all
  technical. # of kids isn't relevant.
  Judging the maturity of users (or devs) by how many children they have
  (or indeed *if* they have children) is pretty questionable.  I know
  people who have kids and are pretty irresponsible (that's not to say
  most are, but one does not guarantee the other).  And I'd argue that
  someone with children does not necessarily have a lot to show someone
  without kids, unless it is the specific experience of childrearing.
 
  There are many people (myself and my wife included) who choose
  consciously not to have children.  It is becoming more and more a
  *choice* people can legitimately make rather than just an assumed part
  of life.  It is not selfish or immature, as some people think, so I'd be
  careful about implying that such a question gauges maturity.
 
  My apologies if I caused you any offense, Joe. I fully agree that choosing
  not to have children is just as mature as deciding to procreate, and more
  mature than simply drifting into parenthood.
 
  I suppose what I am getting at is the idea that there are others in Gentoo
  besides young single males. A responsible parent or a committed spouse has
  a very different perspective to a teenager. Certainly my perspective now at
  37 is vastly different to when I was 18. Parenthood changed a great deal,
  as did the earlier process of committing to marriage.
 
  Which is not to denigrate people who chose not to marry; my godchildren's
  parents were dead-set about their commitment to each other without a piece
  of paper. I guess it's the change between being an individual and feeling a
  commitment to someone else. And yeah maybe it's not something we need to
  ask anyone, but it is good to consider that there are diverse perspectives
  within the group.
 
  In the same vein I asked on project wrt to number of female devs and was
  told there are perhaps 3 or 4 iirc.
 
 
 For a survey of this kind I think questions about children etc are as
 inappropriate as ones about sexual orientation.

 Personally i'd stick to the fundamentals.

 George

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Available hardware

2008-01-18 Thread Rémi Cardona

Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto a écrit :

Christian Faulhammer wrote:
| Hi,
|
| Ryan Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
| Daniel Ostrow wrote:
| As I am no longer an ebuild dev (real life job got in the way) I
| have a whole slew of hardware that I'm willing to ship to any
| gentoo dev for the cost of shipping alone. The list of hardware is
| as follows:
| [...]
| I think Jakub should get the Octane2.  Then he can help with all
| those mips bugs. :)
|
|  /me opens Pay MIPS shipping for jakub fund.  Donate now!
|

/me redirects some funds from the voodoo-dolls business to the Pay
MIPS shipping for jakub fund ;-)


/me redirects some of the Keg for Jakub fund to the Pay MIPS shipping 
for jakub fund. I'll get you some beers when there are no more mips 
bugs left. Ha!


Rémi
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: Seeking questions for a user survey

2008-01-18 Thread George Prowse

Steve Long wrote:

Joe Peterson wrote:


On Thu, Jan 17, 2008 at 10:56:36AM +, Steve Long wrote:

Ryan Hill wrote:

I agree, though year of birth might be interesting.  Income and children
are a bit too private.


++ in general although I do think parenthood (if responsible) is as
relevant as age. A 28 year old with a 5 year old kid has a lot to show a
35 year old doctoral student with no kids, even if it's not all
technical. # of kids isn't relevant.

Judging the maturity of users (or devs) by how many children they have
(or indeed *if* they have children) is pretty questionable.  I know
people who have kids and are pretty irresponsible (that's not to say
most are, but one does not guarantee the other).  And I'd argue that
someone with children does not necessarily have a lot to show someone
without kids, unless it is the specific experience of childrearing.

There are many people (myself and my wife included) who choose
consciously not to have children.  It is becoming more and more a
*choice* people can legitimately make rather than just an assumed part
of life.  It is not selfish or immature, as some people think, so I'd be
careful about implying that such a question gauges maturity.


My apologies if I caused you any offense, Joe. I fully agree that choosing
not to have children is just as mature as deciding to procreate, and more
mature than simply drifting into parenthood.

I suppose what I am getting at is the idea that there are others in Gentoo
besides young single males. A responsible parent or a committed spouse has
a very different perspective to a teenager. Certainly my perspective now at
37 is vastly different to when I was 18. Parenthood changed a great deal,
as did the earlier process of committing to marriage.

Which is not to denigrate people who chose not to marry; my godchildren's
parents were dead-set about their commitment to each other without a piece
of paper. I guess it's the change between being an individual and feeling a
commitment to someone else. And yeah maybe it's not something we need to
ask anyone, but it is good to consider that there are diverse perspectives
within the group.

In the same vein I asked on project wrt to number of female devs and was
told there are perhaps 3 or 4 iirc.


For a survey of this kind I think questions about children etc are as 
inappropriate as ones about sexual orientation.


Personally i'd stick to the fundamentals.

George
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: Seeking questions for a user survey

2008-01-18 Thread Joe Peterson
Steve Long wrote:
 My apologies if I caused you any offense, Joe. I fully agree that choosing
 not to have children is just as mature as deciding to procreate, and more
 mature than simply drifting into parenthood.

No offense taken, and I agree about the drifting into thing.  My
wife's brother asked why we are not having kids, and she asked him, in
turn, why he had kids.  His answer was simply, Because it's what you
do.  I would have rather he said, Because I want to be a parent.

 I suppose what I am getting at is the idea that there are others in Gentoo
 besides young single males. A responsible parent or a committed spouse has
 a very different perspective to a teenager. Certainly my perspective now at
 37 is vastly different to when I was 18. Parenthood changed a great deal,
 as did the earlier process of committing to marriage.

Yep, and I'm one of the older devs here too (in fact, I've got you
beat at 43!).  Good to have a mix of ages, interests, and types of
people, I think.  And ashame we don't have more women.

-Joe
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[gentoo-dev] Re: Upcoming Infra maintenance/downtimes: anon{cvs,svn,git}, archives, bouncer, overlays

2008-01-18 Thread Christian Faulhammer
Robin H. Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 2. Trac doesn't scale well enough, as users of the existing overlay
 machine have noted performance problems before. Being replaced with
 ViewVC and as yet undecided which Wiki application.

 Am I right that Wiki content is not migrated?

V-Li

-- 
Christian Faulhammer, Gentoo Lisp project
URL:http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/lisp/, #gentoo-lisp on FreeNode

URL:http://www.faulhammer.org/


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Upcoming Infra maintenance/downtimes: anon{cvs,svn,git}, archives, bouncer, overlays

2008-01-18 Thread Alon Bar-Lev
On 1/19/08, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  If I understand correctly, the performance of svn under apache is
  better than the svnserver

 The other way round.

We are talking about read-only anonymous repository, right?
But I will take your word for it :)

Thanks!
Alon.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Upcoming Infra maintenance/downtimes: anon{cvs,svn,git}, archives, bouncer, overlays

2008-01-18 Thread Robin H. Johnson
On Sat, Jan 19, 2008 at 12:26:44AM +0200, Alon Bar-Lev wrote:
 On 1/18/08, Mike Frysinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On Thursday 17 January 2008, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
   anonvcs.gentoo.org: anoncvs, anonsvn, anongit
   - Anonymous SVN is changing from http:// to svn:// [1]
   overlays.gentoo.org [3]:
   - Anonymous SVN is changing from http:// to svn://
  i'd point out that http:// syncing is usable from behind firewalls while
  svn:// is not ... while this does not affect me personally, it's something 
  to
  keep in mind.
  -mike
 Just wanted to note this too... I am one of the affected ones...
 I think that it is very important to have http, and even https for
 formal resources.
 git://, svn://, rsync:// or ssh+X:// are inaccessible for a large
 group of users.
My core concern with the SVN http://, was the crappy performance it
provided compared to svn://. The main rsync tree has never been
available for iterative syncing via http://, just had tarball snapshots
and deltas instead.

 Also using none secured protocols, exposes users to man-in-the-middle attacks.
The existing http:// had this problem already, it's not a new one.
git:// and svn:// do both have patches around adding support for adding
TLS. This however just adds overhead, I really need to finish the
tree-signing work I was doing, as that protects the content better (MITM
is still possible on SSL without it, just a lot harder as an attacker
has to deal with the SSL stream first).

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux Developer  Infra Guy
E-Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
GnuPG FP   : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED  F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Upcoming Infra maintenance/downtimes: anon{cvs,svn,git}, archives, bouncer, overlays

2008-01-18 Thread Alon Bar-Lev
On 1/19/08, Robin H. Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 My core concern with the SVN http://, was the crappy performance it
 provided compared to svn://. The main rsync tree has never been
 available for iterative syncing via http://, just had tarball snapshots
 and deltas instead.

If I understand correctly, the performance of svn under apache is
better than the svnserver, the same for git... Well... This is only
for my experience.
In git case, apache is used to transfer files, and it is much better
in this than the most available alternatives.
In svn case, apache provides the concurrency missing from svnserve.

  Also using none secured protocols, exposes users to man-in-the-middle 
  attacks.
 The existing http:// had this problem already, it's not a new one.
 git:// and svn:// do both have patches around adding support for adding
 TLS. This however just adds overhead, I really need to finish the
 tree-signing work I was doing, as that protects the content better (MITM
 is still possible on SSL without it, just a lot harder as an attacker
 has to deal with the SSL stream first).

Even if tree signing will be available, the developers should work in
secured channel... ssh or https... The users will benefit from the
signing and not require secured channel.

Until signing will be available, I think it is very important for us
to provide reliable source.

Regards,
Alon Bar-Lev.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Concerns about WIPE_TMP change

2008-01-18 Thread Mark Loeser
Stefan de Konink [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 How stupid anyone could be that stores anything in /tmp. I think it is a
 problem to change the default behavior of a system that in essence will
 result in data loss.

I think this might just be a communication problem.  You seem to be
contradicting yourself here by saying how someone could be stupid for
storing something, and then defending people that are doing something
you are admitting to be stupid and not logical.

 As pointed out by others you should not use /tmp to store data, my
 return question is then, why are the other ./tmp directories not wiped?
 If any ./tmp on a partition was 'kernel' governed I could agree that a
 semi-ramdisk would be gone upon reboot, or after an application was done
 running. But it is not.

Because according to the FHS (and common sense), files or directories in
/tmp should not be considered to be preserved.  /var/tmp on the other
hand is specifically for temporary files that should be preserved
between reboots.


 In any case my request would be to put a message with bells and beeps in
 the ebuild that cause the /etc/conf.d/bootmisc change announcing that by
 then the default option for /tmp is deletion on boot. To be consistent,
 also delete /var/tmp. If anyone thinks wiping /var/tmp is evil, please
 reconsider /tmp too. In my opinion WIPE_TMP should be in the same state
 as RC_PARALLEL_STARTUP. Unless anyone can make sure a user knows what he
 is doing, disable it.

Please refer to my explanation above as to why /var/tmp is different
from /tmp.

Should an elog statement been put into the ebuild...maybe.
I leave that up to the maintainer to decide what is important enough to
be logged, and they clearly thought this wasn't in this case.  But
bringing it up on this mailing list is atleast the correct place to get
a discussion going on what should be mentioned when we change default
configurations if that is your intention.

Thanks,

-- 
Mark Loeser
email -   halcy0n AT gentoo DOT org
email -   mark AT halcy0n DOT com
web   -   http://www.halcy0n.com


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[gentoo-dev] Concerns about WIPE_TMP change

2008-01-18 Thread Stefan de Konink
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Hello,


I joined this mailinglist because of my concern pointed in:

http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=206604


How stupid anyone could be that stores anything in /tmp. I think it is a
problem to change the default behavior of a system that in essence will
result in data loss.

As pointed out by others you should not use /tmp to store data, my
return question is then, why are the other ./tmp directories not wiped?
If any ./tmp on a partition was 'kernel' governed I could agree that a
semi-ramdisk would be gone upon reboot, or after an application was done
running. But it is not.


In any case my request would be to put a message with bells and beeps in
the ebuild that cause the /etc/conf.d/bootmisc change announcing that by
then the default option for /tmp is deletion on boot. To be consistent,
also delete /var/tmp. If anyone thinks wiping /var/tmp is evil, please
reconsider /tmp too. In my opinion WIPE_TMP should be in the same state
as RC_PARALLEL_STARTUP. Unless anyone can make sure a user knows what he
is doing, disable it.



Yours Sincerely,

Stefan de Konink

ps. No I did not have data loss, like any good admin I read before I
apply. And yes I prefer to store anything that will not cause harm, such
as extracted sources for gdb use in /tmp.
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Upcoming Infra maintenance/downtimes: anon{cvs,svn,git}, archives, bouncer, overlays

2008-01-18 Thread Robin H. Johnson
On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 06:41:44PM +0100, Christian Faulhammer wrote:
  2. Trac doesn't scale well enough, as users of the existing overlay
  machine have noted performance problems before. Being replaced with
  ViewVC and as yet undecided which Wiki application.
  Am I right that Wiki content is not migrated?
We do want to migrate the content, either by just putting up static
snapshots, or actively moving it.
dokuwiki is a contender at the moment, because the Java guys already use
it, and I have a personal interest in MediaWiki (as I've hacked on that
codebase before) - but either way, this is quite a way further down my
list of things to do, at least 2 weeks away at this point.

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux Developer  Infra Guy
E-Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
GnuPG FP   : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED  F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Seeking questions for a user survey

2008-01-18 Thread likewhoa
Your suggestions are ideal and don't get to personal, thanks for the
feedback and corrections.


On Jan 18, 2008 8:54 PM, Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 likewhoa [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted
 [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted
 below, on  Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:20:08 -0500:

  one question regarding children that I see as being appropriate is:
 
  Do children in your household use Gentoo?
  Yes
  No
  It's to complicated for them
  Prefer not to answer

 s/children/others/, thus including spouses, kids, parents, housemates,
 etc.  That's not so personal and more useful an answer IMO.

 But more useful without getting quite so personal in relationship
 implication:

 How many others in your household use Gentoo?
  0
  1-2
  3+
  Prefer not to answer

 What ages are they (mark all that apply)?
  0-10
  11-18
  19-30
  30-50
  51+
  None or prefer not to answer

 --
 Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
 Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
 and if you use the program, he is your master.  Richard Stallman

 --

 gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Available hardware

2008-01-18 Thread Pierre-Yves Rofes

On Fri, January 18, 2008 1:43 pm, Rémi Cardona wrote:
 Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto a écrit :
 Christian Faulhammer wrote:
 | Hi,
 |
 | Ryan Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 | Daniel Ostrow wrote:
 | As I am no longer an ebuild dev (real life job got in the way) I
 | have a whole slew of hardware that I'm willing to ship to any
 | gentoo dev for the cost of shipping alone. The list of hardware is
 | as follows:
 | [...]
 | I think Jakub should get the Octane2.  Then he can help with all
 | those mips bugs. :)
 |
 |  /me opens Pay MIPS shipping for jakub fund.  Donate now!
 |

 /me redirects some funds from the voodoo-dolls business to the Pay
 MIPS shipping for jakub fund ;-)

 /me redirects some of the Keg for Jakub fund to the Pay MIPS shipping
 for jakub fund. I'll get you some beers when there are no more mips
 bugs left. Ha!


/me sells some Gentoo 2007.1 Install CDs (fake^H^H^H^Hcollector edition)
on Ebay, then wires the cash to the Pay MIPS shipping for jakub fund :)

-- 
Pierre-Yves Rofes

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Upcoming Infra maintenance/downtimes: anon{cvs,svn,git}, archives, bouncer, overlays

2008-01-18 Thread Alon Bar-Lev
On 1/18/08, Mike Frysinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Thursday 17 January 2008, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
  anonvcs.gentoo.org: anoncvs, anonsvn, anongit
  - Anonymous SVN is changing from http:// to svn:// [1]
  overlays.gentoo.org [3]:
  - Anonymous SVN is changing from http:// to svn://

 i'd point out that http:// syncing is usable from behind firewalls while
 svn:// is not ... while this does not affect me personally, it's something to
 keep in mind.
 -mike



Just wanted to note this too... I am one of the affected ones...
I think that it is very important to have http, and even https for
formal resources.
git://, svn://, rsync:// or ssh+X:// are inaccessible for a large
group of users.

Also using none secured protocols, exposes users to man-in-the-middle attacks.

Best Regards,
Alon Bar-Lev.
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gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list



[gentoo-dev] Re: Seeking questions for a user survey

2008-01-18 Thread Duncan
likewhoa [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted
[EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted
below, on  Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:20:08 -0500:

 one question regarding children that I see as being appropriate is:
 
 Do children in your household use Gentoo?
 Yes
 No
 It's to complicated for them
 Prefer not to answer

s/children/others/, thus including spouses, kids, parents, housemates, 
etc.  That's not so personal and more useful an answer IMO.

But more useful without getting quite so personal in relationship 
implication:

How many others in your household use Gentoo?
 0
 1-2
 3+
 Prefer not to answer

What ages are they (mark all that apply)?
 0-10
 11-18
 19-30
 30-50
 51+
 None or prefer not to answer

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master.  Richard Stallman

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Upcoming Infra maintenance/downtimes: anon{cvs,svn,git}, archives, bouncer, overlays

2008-01-18 Thread Robin H. Johnson
On Sat, Jan 19, 2008 at 01:01:04AM +0200, Alon Bar-Lev wrote:
 On 1/19/08, Robin H. Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  My core concern with the SVN http://, was the crappy performance it
  provided compared to svn://. The main rsync tree has never been
  available for iterative syncing via http://, just had tarball snapshots
  and deltas instead.
 If I understand correctly, the performance of svn under apache is
 better than the svnserver, the same for git... Well... This is only
 for my experience.
 In git case, apache is used to transfer files, and it is much better
 in this than the most available alternatives.
Umm, I think you've got things a bit reversed here.
The core problem with using both SVN and Git over HTTP, is the number of
round trips required. Git provides the best example, if the server side
isn't already packed, each object needs to get fetched individually.
Whereas the git:// protocol effectively sends 'I have rev XYZ, give me
everything up to HEAD.' One message in each direction, with a slight
wait in the middle while the server prepares the response.

 In svn case, apache provides the concurrency missing from svnserve.
svnserve running under xinetd so it's niced and set to a max of 10
concurrent users. I benched it up with 30 concurrent updates myself, but
I want to save room for now.

 Even if tree signing will be available, the developers should work in
 secured channel... ssh or https... The users will benefit from the
 signing and not require secured channel.
 
 Until signing will be available, I think it is very important for us
 to provide reliable source.
The git:// and svn:// are for the anonymous side - I did state
that clearly in my original post. Git commits are using git+ssh:// (via
gitosis), and while I'd like to do the same for SVN, it will probably
remain SVN-over-https:// for now.

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux Developer  Infra Guy
E-Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
GnuPG FP   : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED  F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85


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