Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: 2009.0 profiles

2009-09-11 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Saturday 29 August 2009 05:42:45 Duncan wrote:
 Mike Frysinger posted on Sat, 29 Aug 2009 02:56:33 -0400 as excerpted:
  On Friday 28 August 2009 20:05:12 Alex Alexander wrote:
  On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 00:23, Mike Frysinger wrote:
   On Friday 28 August 2009 16:27:18 Sebastian Pipping wrote:
   Mike Frysinger wrote:
10.0 is retarded
  
   How would you like the problem to be addressed?
  
   we already have a simple logical version system.  2009.0 is the next
   step.
 
  Years do not make a good versioning scheme, if one release gets out
  late you're automatically considered outdated by users.
 
  then help the release team to get more tested releases, otherwise
  reality is we are releasing out of date install media
 
 But as we all know, releases != profiles.  If there's no reason to update
 the profiles besides the fact that the name incorporates a year, and they
 look out of date, why do so?

 For that reason, getting away from year for the profiles is a reasonable
 idea, now that Gentoo seems to be mature enough that we don't need a new
 profile multiple times a year.
 
 OTOH, having the year in there, as long as people don't get fixated on
 it, can be useful as an indication of when the profile was born, just not
 necessarily that it's outdated.  If it weren't for the outdated
 appearance, therefore, year would be fine.

except that profiles and releases have always been tied (for good reason).  
profile default changes are made as part of the release process.  if we want 
to change a USE flag default, we dont (shouldnt) be doing it to live profiles.  
it is part of the natural version bumping.  releng has always been managing 
new profiles since we started the process years ago and there's no reason to 
change now.

 Whatever, bikeshedding from my perspective, and this one I don't /care/
 what the color/name is.  But since we already have 10.0 profiles in-tree,
 just run with them, as it's more work to worry about changing them now,
 than it's worth.  (And, I might add, I'm glad they're in, as the /last/
 thing we need is to be stalemated debating it for a year or two, as it
 /is/ bikeshedding.)

date based profiles isnt bikeshedding, it's logical.  and if your only 
complaint is that it doesnt matter, then there is absolutely no reason to go 
changing from what we've been doing for years with no complaints.  picking 
random numbers out of your ass (like 10.0) is confusing.
-mike


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[gentoo-dev] DistroWatch and Gentoo packages: status quo and future

2009-09-11 Thread Sebastian Pipping
Hello there!


Among other information the Gentoo page at DistroWatch [1] displays a
table on about 200 selected packages [2] and how up to date Gentoo is
per package.  I assume that DistroWatch is still one of the first places
people go to get a feeling for a Distro they heard about, besides
Wikpedia and ${distro}.org.

The freshness of these 200 packages have influence on how people
perceive Gentoo on DistroWatch.  While the tree as a whole is what we
should keep as up to date as possible keeping these 200 packages (list
further down) up to date can therefore be of particular importance.

From a quick look at the table these packages seem to need extra care in
Gentoo:

  cups (1.4.0) 1.3.11  -- latest in Gentoo unstable/testing
  koffice (2.0.2)  1.6.3
  mysql (5.1.38)   5.0.84
  perl (5.10.1)5.8.8
  php (5.3.0)  5.2.10
  samba (3.4.1)3.3.7


Packages not found in Gentoo that DistroWatch monitors across discros are:

  apt
  synaptic
.. Debian stuff, that Gentoo does not have packaged

  apache
  mod_ssl
.. Apache 1.x seems gone from Gentoo (I suppose security)

  openjdk
.. Not packaged in Gentoo, no idea why

  checkinstall
  Miro
.. Not in official tree (yet?), available through an Overlay

  xmms
.. Removed for security reasons, available through an Overlay

Maybe we should move Miro to the main tree?


Since today DistroWatch's sources on tree freshness are [3] and [4] as
they provide more accurate data than previously used sources do.

What is the process to migrate the generating script over to Gentoo
infrastructure?

See you,



Sebastian


[1] http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=gentoo
[2] http://distrowatch.com/packages.php
[3] http://www.hartwork.org/public/distrowatch_gentoo_x86_latest_stable.txt
[4]
http://www.hartwork.org/public/distrowatch_gentoo_x86_latest_unstable.txt


List of all Gentoo packages currently monitored
===
abiword app-office/abiword
AfterStep x11-wm/afterstep
alpine mail-client/alpine
alsa-lib media-libs/alsa-lib
amarok media-sound/amarok
apache-tomcat www-servers/tomcat
ati-driver x11-drivers/ati-drivers
audacity media-sound/audacity
autoconf sys-devel/autoconf
automake sys-devel/automake
avidemux media-video/avidemux
banshee media-sound/banshee
bash app-shells/bash
bind net-dns/bind
binutils sys-devel/binutils
bison sys-devel/bison
blender media-gfx/blender
bluefish app-editors/bluefish
bzip2 app-arch/bzip2
cdrkit app-cdr/cdrkit
cinelerra media-video/cinelerra
compiz x11-wm/compiz
coreutils sys-apps/coreutils
cups net-print/cups
curl net-misc/curl
cvs dev-util/cvs
db sys-libs/db
DeviceKit sys-apps/devicekit
dhcp net-misc/dhcp
diffutils sys-apps/diffutils
digikam media-gfx/digikam
dillo www-client/dillo
dosbox games-emulation/dosbox
dovecot net-mail/dovecot
doxygen app-doc/doxygen
e2fsprogs sys-fs/e2fsprogs
eclipse dev-util/eclipse-sdk
emacs app-editors/emacs
enlightenment x11-wm/enlightenment
epiphany www-client/epiphany
evolution mail-client/evolution
exim mail-mta/exim
fetchmail net-mail/fetchmail
ffmpeg media-video/ffmpeg
file sys-apps/file
findutils sys-apps/findutils
firebird dev-db/firebird
firefox www-client/mozilla-firefox
flex sys-devel/flex
fluxbox x11-wm/fluxbox
freetype media-libs/freetype
f-spot media-gfx/f-spot
gawk sys-apps/gawk
gcc sys-devel/gcc
gettext sys-devel/gettext
gftp net-ftp/gftp
ghostscript app-text/ghostscript-gpl
gimp media-gfx/gimp
git dev-util/git
glade dev-util/glade
glibc sys-libs/glibc
gnucash app-office/gnucash
gnumeric app-office/gnumeric
gnupg app-crypt/gnupg
gparted sys-block/gparted
grep sys-apps/grep
groff sys-apps/groff
grub sys-boot/grub
gstreamer media-libs/gstreamer
gtk+ x11-libs/gtk+
gzip app-arch/gzip
hal sys-apps/hal
httpd www-servers/apache
icewm x11-wm/icewm
ImageMagick media-gfx/imagemagick
inkscape media-gfx/inkscape
iptables net-firewall/iptables
jre dev-java/sun-jre-bin
k3b app-cdr/k3b
kaffeine media-video/kaffeine
kdebase kde-base/kde-meta
kdevelop dev-util/kdevelop
kdewebdev kde-base/kdewebdev
koffice app-office/koffice
krusader kde-misc/krusader
ktorrent net-p2p/ktorrent
less sys-apps/less
lftp net-ftp/lftp
libgnome gnome-base/libgnome
libselinux sys-libs/libselinux
libtool sys-devel/libtool
libvorbis media-libs/libvorbis
lighttpd www-servers/lighttpd
lilo sys-boot/lilo
links www-client/links
linux sys-kernel/vanilla-sources
lvm sys-fs/lvm2
lxde-common lxde-base/lxde-common
lynx www-client/lynx
lyx app-office/lyx
m4 sys-devel/m4
MailScanner mail-filter/MailScanner
make sys-devel/make
man sys-apps/man
man-pages sys-apps/man-pages
mc app-misc/mc
mod_perl www-apache/mod_perl
module-init-tools sys-apps/module-init-tools
mono dev-lang/mono
MPlayer media-video/mplayer
mutt mail-client/mutt
mysql dev-db/mysql
nautilus gnome-base/nautilus
ncftp net-ftp/ncftp
ncurses sys-libs/ncurses
ndiswrapper net-wireless/ndiswrapper
nedit app-editors/nedit
netatalk net-fs/netatalk
NetBeans dev-util/netbeans
NetworkManager net-misc/networkmanager

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: 2009.0 profiles

2009-09-11 Thread George Prowse

Mike Frysinger wrote:

...


Why not tie the the thing that makes Gentoo unique and one of the major 
reasons why users use it to the version numbers - Portage.


We had 1.2, then 1.4 then 2004.0 and if i'm not mistaken portage is at 
2.1 currently. Tie it in and we have 2.2 (currently masked) next. Add 
release candidates along the way and everyone is happy. But i'm sure 
there is a million reasons why this is wrong... Bring on the wrath.


George



[gentoo-dev] Re: DistroWatch and Gentoo packages: status quo and future

2009-09-11 Thread Ryan Hill
On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 01:02:44 +0200
Sebastian Pipping webmas...@hartwork.org wrote:

 Among other information the Gentoo page at DistroWatch [1] displays a
 table on about 200 selected packages [2] and how up to date Gentoo is
 per package.  I assume that DistroWatch is still one of the first places
 people go to get a feeling for a Distro they heard about, besides
 Wikpedia and ${distro}.org.
 
 The freshness of these 200 packages have influence on how people
 perceive Gentoo on DistroWatch.  While the tree as a whole is what we
 should keep as up to date as possible keeping these 200 packages (list
 further down) up to date can therefore be of particular importance.

Personally I don't see how gaming the system helps us in any way.




Also, screw DW.

-- 
fonts, Character is what you are in the dark.
gcc-porting,
wxwidgets @ gentoo EFFD 380E 047A 4B51 D2BD C64F 8AA8 8346 F9A4 0662


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Re: [gentoo-dev] DistroWatch and Gentoo packages: status quo and future

2009-09-11 Thread Aaron Bauman
Sebastian,
I definitely admire your point and know that through your tracking and 
Google 
SoC project you have good visibility on this I do however have to disagree.  
As much as I enjoy the open source community and admire the products they put 
out I do believe Gentoo has the right approach to packaging.
My standpoint is that Gentoo always ensures stability in the fact that 
we 
require packages to be tested prior to release in the main portage tree and 
secondly the Gentoo developers always ensure security as best as they can.
These I believe are what keep the portage tree somewhat behind the 
latest and 
greatest and as always there are overlays and options that allow users to pull 
these packages down if they want.
I believe the great thing about Gentoo is the choice of whether to be 
cutting 
edge or not.  If I have missed anything please let me know.

On Friday 11 September 2009 19:02:44 Sebastian Pipping wrote:
 Hello there!
 
 
 Among other information the Gentoo page at DistroWatch [1] displays a
 table on about 200 selected packages [2] and how up to date Gentoo is
 per package.  I assume that DistroWatch is still one of the first places
 people go to get a feeling for a Distro they heard about, besides
 Wikpedia and ${distro}.org.
 
 The freshness of these 200 packages have influence on how people
 perceive Gentoo on DistroWatch.  While the tree as a whole is what we
 should keep as up to date as possible keeping these 200 packages (list
 further down) up to date can therefore be of particular importance.
 
 From a quick look at the table these packages seem to need extra care in
 Gentoo:
 
   cups (1.4.0) 1.3.11  -- latest in Gentoo unstable/testing
   koffice (2.0.2)  1.6.3
   mysql (5.1.38)   5.0.84
   perl (5.10.1)5.8.8
   php (5.3.0)  5.2.10
   samba (3.4.1)3.3.7
 
 
 Packages not found in Gentoo that DistroWatch monitors across discros are:
 
   apt
   synaptic
 .. Debian stuff, that Gentoo does not have packaged
 
   apache
   mod_ssl
 .. Apache 1.x seems gone from Gentoo (I suppose security)
 
   openjdk
 .. Not packaged in Gentoo, no idea why
 
   checkinstall
   Miro
 .. Not in official tree (yet?), available through an Overlay
 
   xmms
 .. Removed for security reasons, available through an Overlay
 
 Maybe we should move Miro to the main tree?
 
 
 Since today DistroWatch's sources on tree freshness are [3] and [4] as
 they provide more accurate data than previously used sources do.
 
 What is the process to migrate the generating script over to Gentoo
 infrastructure?
 
 See you,
 
 
 
 Sebastian
 
 
 [1] http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=gentoo
 [2] http://distrowatch.com/packages.php
 [3] http://www.hartwork.org/public/distrowatch_gentoo_x86_latest_stable.txt
 [4]
 http://www.hartwork.org/public/distrowatch_gentoo_x86_latest_unstable.txt
 
 
 List of all Gentoo packages currently monitored
 ===
 abiword app-office/abiword
 AfterStep x11-wm/afterstep
 alpine mail-client/alpine
 alsa-lib media-libs/alsa-lib
 amarok media-sound/amarok
 apache-tomcat www-servers/tomcat
 ati-driver x11-drivers/ati-drivers
 audacity media-sound/audacity
 autoconf sys-devel/autoconf
 automake sys-devel/automake
 avidemux media-video/avidemux
 banshee media-sound/banshee
 bash app-shells/bash
 bind net-dns/bind
 binutils sys-devel/binutils
 bison sys-devel/bison
 blender media-gfx/blender
 bluefish app-editors/bluefish
 bzip2 app-arch/bzip2
 cdrkit app-cdr/cdrkit
 cinelerra media-video/cinelerra
 compiz x11-wm/compiz
 coreutils sys-apps/coreutils
 cups net-print/cups
 curl net-misc/curl
 cvs dev-util/cvs
 db sys-libs/db
 DeviceKit sys-apps/devicekit
 dhcp net-misc/dhcp
 diffutils sys-apps/diffutils
 digikam media-gfx/digikam
 dillo www-client/dillo
 dosbox games-emulation/dosbox
 dovecot net-mail/dovecot
 doxygen app-doc/doxygen
 e2fsprogs sys-fs/e2fsprogs
 eclipse dev-util/eclipse-sdk
 emacs app-editors/emacs
 enlightenment x11-wm/enlightenment
 epiphany www-client/epiphany
 evolution mail-client/evolution
 exim mail-mta/exim
 fetchmail net-mail/fetchmail
 ffmpeg media-video/ffmpeg
 file sys-apps/file
 findutils sys-apps/findutils
 firebird dev-db/firebird
 firefox www-client/mozilla-firefox
 flex sys-devel/flex
 fluxbox x11-wm/fluxbox
 freetype media-libs/freetype
 f-spot media-gfx/f-spot
 gawk sys-apps/gawk
 gcc sys-devel/gcc
 gettext sys-devel/gettext
 gftp net-ftp/gftp
 ghostscript app-text/ghostscript-gpl
 gimp media-gfx/gimp
 git dev-util/git
 glade dev-util/glade
 glibc sys-libs/glibc
 gnucash app-office/gnucash
 gnumeric app-office/gnumeric
 gnupg app-crypt/gnupg
 gparted sys-block/gparted
 grep sys-apps/grep
 groff sys-apps/groff
 grub sys-boot/grub
 gstreamer media-libs/gstreamer
 gtk+ x11-libs/gtk+
 gzip app-arch/gzip
 hal sys-apps/hal
 httpd www-servers/apache
 icewm x11-wm/icewm
 ImageMagick media-gfx/imagemagick
 inkscape media-gfx/inkscape
 iptables