[gentoo-dev] eselect init

2013-05-25 Thread Luca Barbato
Hi, since the whole discussion got somehow sidetracked on where and if to install for everybody the rc system specific files for everybody (that should be an implementation detail for the specific dohelper IMHO), I'm back to the other part of it: switching the actual init implementation. # WHY

Re: [gentoo-dev] eselect init

2013-05-25 Thread Peter Stuge
Luca Barbato wrote: - init gets effectively switched only at boot/reboot Please not on reboot, because an unclean shutdown shouldn't leave the system in limbo. On boot could work, except that it does add more steps (= more fragility) to the boot process, which I think everyone wants to avoid.

Re: [gentoo-dev] eselect init

2013-05-25 Thread Pacho Ramos
El sáb, 25-05-2013 a las 11:54 +0200, Luca Barbato escribió: Hi, since the whole discussion got somehow sidetracked on where and if to install for everybody the rc system specific files for everybody (that should be an implementation detail for the specific dohelper IMHO), I'm back to the

Re: [gentoo-dev] eselect init

2013-05-25 Thread Sergei Trofimovich
On Sat, 25 May 2013 11:54:48 +0200 Luca Barbato lu_z...@gentoo.org wrote: Hi, since the whole discussion got somehow sidetracked on where and if to install for everybody the rc system specific files for everybody (that should be an implementation detail for the specific dohelper IMHO), I'm

Re: [gentoo-dev] eselect init

2013-05-25 Thread Tom Wijsman
On Sat, 25 May 2013 12:25:03 +0200 Peter Stuge pe...@stuge.se wrote: I would actually expect the change to take effect immediately. Then how would you be able to shutdown / reboot your system in a clean way? The premise here is that when you boot with an init system you must shutdown with that

Re: [gentoo-dev] eselect init

2013-05-25 Thread Tom Wijsman
On Sat, 25 May 2013 13:13:36 +0200 Pacho Ramos pa...@gentoo.org wrote: I use e4rat and, for that, I need to add init=/sbin/e4rat-preload to my grub.conf, I guess this wouldn't change with this, no? :/ Thanks for the info! That instead of the default will first load e4rat-preload and

Re: [gentoo-dev] eselect init

2013-05-25 Thread hasufell
Isn't eselect for cases where I might want to reconfigure something or add configuration values such as for bash-completion, do testing with java-vm or python implementations during development, switch opengl implementation depending on the graphics driver loaded and whatnot. I don't see any of

Re: [gentoo-dev] eselect init

2013-05-25 Thread Tom Wijsman
On Sat, 25 May 2013 14:29:12 +0300 Sergei Trofimovich sly...@gentoo.org wrote: If you can't change options at boot time it's very simple to get unbootable system. https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=465236#c34 In above Bug #465236 at Comment #34 the suggestion has been made to maybe call

Re: [gentoo-dev] eselect init

2013-05-25 Thread Pacho Ramos
El sáb, 25-05-2013 a las 14:03 +0200, Tom Wijsman escribió: On Sat, 25 May 2013 13:13:36 +0200 Pacho Ramos pa...@gentoo.org wrote: I use e4rat and, for that, I need to add init=/sbin/e4rat-preload to my grub.conf, I guess this wouldn't change with this, no? :/ Thanks for the

[gentoo-dev] Last rites: sys-fs/aufs2

2013-05-25 Thread Justin
# Justin Lecher j...@gentoo.org (25 May 2013) # Upstream dropped support long ago # Switch to sys-fs/aufs3 or # sys-kernel/aufs-sources sys-fs/aufs2 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-dev] eselect init

2013-05-25 Thread Luca Barbato
On 05/25/2013 01:29 PM, Sergei Trofimovich wrote: If you can't change options at boot time it's very simple to get unbootable system. Just curious, who does such systems and how root filesystem (+ it's mount options) is expected to be found there? You write your bootargs in the kernel, if you

Re: [gentoo-dev] eselect init

2013-05-25 Thread Tom Wijsman
On Sat, 25 May 2013 11:54:48 +0200 Luca Barbato lu_z...@gentoo.org wrote: since the whole discussion got somehow sidetracked [SNIP], I'm back to the other part of it: switching the actual init implementation. Thank you very much. Since efi at least some people started to put in the kernel

Re: [gentoo-dev] eselect init

2013-05-25 Thread Luca Barbato
On 05/25/2013 01:13 PM, Pacho Ramos wrote: El sáb, 25-05-2013 a las 11:54 +0200, Luca Barbato escribió: Hi, since the whole discussion got somehow sidetracked on where and if to install for everybody the rc system specific files for everybody (that should be an implementation detail for the

Re: [gentoo-dev] eselect init

2013-05-25 Thread Luca Barbato
On 05/25/2013 02:13 PM, hasufell wrote: Isn't eselect for cases where I might want to reconfigure something or add configuration values such as for bash-completion, do testing with java-vm or python implementations during development, switch opengl implementation depending on the graphics

[gentoo-dev] Going against co-maintainer's wishes (ref. bug 412697)

2013-05-25 Thread Ben de Groot
I'm taking this from https://bugs.gentoo.org/412697 to the dev mailing list, since this discussion doesn't really belong on bugzilla. Some background copied from the bug report: (In reply to comment #21) (In reply to comment #19) (In reply to comment #17) (In reply to comment #15) (In

Re: [gentoo-dev] Going against co-maintainer's wishes (ref. bug 412697)

2013-05-25 Thread Pacho Ramos
El dom, 26-05-2013 a las 00:14 +0800, Ben de Groot escribió: I'm taking this from https://bugs.gentoo.org/412697 to the dev mailing list, since this discussion doesn't really belong on bugzilla. Some background copied from the bug report: [...] Probably your following comment in bug report

Re: [gentoo-dev] Going against co-maintainer's wishes (ref. bug 412697)

2013-05-25 Thread Carlos Silva
Ben, you're really just being a child here. Is that a really big problem to add a small text file to your package?! Is that a big maintaining burden? If you can't test it, systemd team can, just like there are arch teams to test packages on other archs the maintainers can't. It's not something

Re: [gentoo-dev] Going against co-maintainer's wishes (ref. bug 412697)

2013-05-25 Thread Michał Górny
On Sun, 26 May 2013 00:14:36 +0800 Ben de Groot yng...@gentoo.org wrote: I'm taking this from https://bugs.gentoo.org/412697 to the dev mailing list, since this discussion doesn't really belong on bugzilla. Since Bugzilla is down at the moment and it seems not to be mentioned anywhere in the

Re: [gentoo-dev] eselect init

2013-05-25 Thread Sergei Trofimovich
I'd go for init=/sbin/gentoo-init and make all the messy stuff there. Otherwise by breaking /sbin/init it would be hard to find proper name of, say, SYSVs /sbin/init. How would you call it? /bin/init is my idea (second in the list in linux fallback), otherwise we can just make the

Re: [gentoo-dev] Going against co-maintainer's wishes (ref. bug 412697)

2013-05-25 Thread Rich Freeman
On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Michał Górny mgo...@gentoo.org wrote: On Sun, 26 May 2013 00:14:36 +0800 Ben de Groot yng...@gentoo.org wrote: But if a co-maintainer pushes through a change that I oppose, then working together becomes quite difficult. In this case I opted to give up

Re: [gentoo-dev] Going against co-maintainer's wishes (ref. bug 412697)

2013-05-25 Thread Markos Chandras
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 05/25/2013 05:14 PM, Ben de Groot wrote: But if a co-maintainer pushes through a change that I oppose, then working together becomes quite difficult. In this case I opted to give up maintainership. Ben, We've been working together, in

[gentoo-dev] Usage of dev-utils/ninja in ebuilds

2013-05-25 Thread Mike Gilbert
For those unaware, dev-util/ninja is a make-replacement created by one of the Chromium guys at Google. Its focus is on making incremental builds of large software faster. In the latest chromium ebuild (chromium-29.0.1516.3), we are using ninja instead of make. ninja auto-detects the number of

Re: [gentoo-dev] eselect init

2013-05-25 Thread Matthew Thode
On 05/25/13 05:25, Peter Stuge wrote: Luca Barbato wrote: - init gets effectively switched only at boot/reboot Please not on reboot, because an unclean shutdown shouldn't leave the system in limbo. On boot could work, except that it does add more steps (= more fragility) to the boot

Re: [gentoo-dev] eselect init

2013-05-25 Thread J. Roeleveld
On Sat, May 25, 2013 15:38, Tom Wijsman wrote: On Sat, 25 May 2013 11:54:48 +0200 Luca Barbato lu_z...@gentoo.org wrote: SNIPPED there's one option we forget about here though, EFI users can build a second smaller minimally adjusted defconfig kernel that ends up loading the default init

Re: [gentoo-dev] Usage of dev-utils/ninja in ebuilds

2013-05-25 Thread Tom Wijsman
On Sat, 25 May 2013 14:48:30 -0400 Mike Gilbert flop...@gentoo.org wrote: For those unaware, dev-util/ninja is a make-replacement created by one of the Chromium guys at Google. Its focus is on making incremental builds of large software faster. I've no idea how this would work out, so I'm

Re: [gentoo-dev] Usage of dev-utils/ninja in ebuilds

2013-05-25 Thread Mike Gilbert
On 05/25/2013 03:17 PM, Tom Wijsman wrote: From an user perspective I was wondering if ninja in the Portage tree makes use of this faster incremental builds feature. Should I expect faster builds when trying this out? No, you will not see any significant speed increase because we always

Re: [gentoo-dev] eselect init

2013-05-25 Thread Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
Sergei Trofimovich schrieb: I guess EFI allows you to set bootargs via EFI UI. If you have an EFI shell, then you can pass additional kernel command line parameters via that. Passing parameters via the UI is not possible with any of the UEFI systems that I have come across. Best regards,

Re: [gentoo-dev] Going against co-maintainer's wishes (ref. bug 412697)

2013-05-25 Thread Anthony G. Basile
On 05/25/2013 02:13 PM, Markos Chandras wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 05/25/2013 05:14 PM, Ben de Groot wrote: But if a co-maintainer pushes through a change that I oppose, then working together becomes quite difficult. In this case I opted to give up

Re: [gentoo-dev] eselect init

2013-05-25 Thread Tom Wijsman
On Sat, 25 May 2013 21:09:47 +0200 J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: I was thinking of a default option in the eselect init part that would remove init=/sbin/einit from the kernel boot parameters. With the different boot loaders, it's not easy to do this consistently everywhere; lilo !=

Re: [gentoo-dev] Going against co-maintainer's wishes (ref. bug 412697)

2013-05-25 Thread Mike Gilbert
On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Anthony G. Basile bluen...@gentoo.org wrote: Can I ask the systemd people to design a working solution for opting out? I can't support this initiative without such a solution and I would be happy to work with the systemd people to reach it, ie I'll test. What

Re: [gentoo-dev] Going against co-maintainer's wishes (ref. bug 412697)

2013-05-25 Thread Rich Freeman
On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Anthony G. Basile bluen...@gentoo.org wrote: We are moving too quickly on bug #448882 ([Tracker] packages not providing systemd units). We should come to better consensus on systemd integration and we were getting there with the idea of INSTALL_MASK. I don't

Re: [gentoo-dev] Going against co-maintainer's wishes (ref. bug 412697)

2013-05-25 Thread Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn
Rich Freeman schrieb: Yet another stand. No offense but I'm afraid it's quite childish of you. I don't understand why you're so proud of it. It's a bit like 'Gentoo will play as I like. If it doesn't, then I will play against Gentoo. And if that doesn't help, I will resent and slam the door,

Re: [gentoo-dev] eselect init

2013-05-25 Thread Alex Xu
On 25/05/13 03:55 PM, Tom Wijsman wrote: I don't have init= set on my machines and it seems to start /sbin/init. So that should be correct. Ah yeah, a quick `ps axjf | grep bin/[i]nit` indeed confirms that.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Going against co-maintainer's wishes (ref. bug 412697)

2013-05-25 Thread Rich Freeman
On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn chith...@gentoo.org wrote: Rich Freeman schrieb: Yet another stand. No offense but I'm afraid it's quite childish of you. I don't understand why you're so proud of it. It's a bit like 'Gentoo will play as I like. If it doesn't, then

Re: [gentoo-dev] Going against co-maintainer's wishes (ref. bug 412697)

2013-05-25 Thread Michał Górny
On Sat, 25 May 2013 22:02:26 +0200 Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn chith...@gentoo.org wrote: Rich Freeman schrieb: Yet another stand. No offense but I'm afraid it's quite childish of you. I don't understand why you're so proud of it. It's a bit like 'Gentoo will play as I like. If it

Re: [gentoo-dev] eselect init

2013-05-25 Thread Tom Wijsman
On Sat, 25 May 2013 16:07:51 -0400 Alex Xu alex_y...@yahoo.ca wrote: On 25/05/13 03:55 PM, Tom Wijsman wrote: I don't have init= set on my machines and it seems to start /sbin/init. So that should be correct. Ah yeah, a quick `ps axjf | grep bin/[i]nit` indeed confirms that.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Usage of dev-utils/ninja in ebuilds

2013-05-25 Thread Luca Barbato
On 5/25/13 9:17 PM, Tom Wijsman wrote: On Sat, 25 May 2013 14:48:30 -0400 Mike Gilbert flop...@gentoo.org wrote: For those unaware, dev-util/ninja is a make-replacement created by one of the Chromium guys at Google. Its focus is on making incremental builds of large software faster. I've no

Re: [gentoo-dev] Going against co-maintainer's wishes (ref. bug 412697)

2013-05-25 Thread Luca Barbato
On 5/25/13 6:48 PM, Michał Górny wrote: On Sun, 26 May 2013 00:14:36 +0800 Ben de Groot yng...@gentoo.org wrote: I'm taking this from https://bugs.gentoo.org/412697 to the dev mailing list, since this discussion doesn't really belong on bugzilla. Seems that *upstream* had to a bit of work in

Re: [gentoo-dev] Going against co-maintainer's wishes (ref. bug 412697)

2013-05-25 Thread Anthony G. Basile
On 05/25/2013 03:58 PM, Mike Gilbert wrote: On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Anthony G. Basile bluen...@gentoo.org wrote: Can I ask the systemd people to design a working solution for opting out? I can't support this initiative without such a solution and I would be happy to work with the

[gentoo-dev] Re: Usage of dev-utils/ninja in ebuilds

2013-05-25 Thread Ryan Hill
On Sat, 25 May 2013 14:48:30 -0400 Mike Gilbert flop...@gentoo.org wrote: I'm wondering if we should create a more global function for calling ninja in a consistent way. Maybe we should introduce a NINJAOPTS variable for users to set in make.conf. Should we create a new eclass for this, or

Re: [gentoo-dev] eselect init

2013-05-25 Thread Walter Dnes
On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 01:57:39PM +0200, Tom Wijsman wrote On Sat, 25 May 2013 12:25:03 +0200 Peter Stuge pe...@stuge.se wrote: I would actually expect the change to take effect immediately. Then how would you be able to shutdown / reboot your system in a clean way? The premise here is

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Usage of dev-utils/ninja in ebuilds

2013-05-25 Thread Alex Xu
On 25/05/13 09:53 PM, Ryan Hill wrote: Is NINJAOPTS a variable recognized by ninja or something that would be Gentoo specific? MAKEOPTS is Gentoo-specific anyways. MAKEFLAGS is parsed by at least GNU make. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-dev] eselect init

2013-05-25 Thread Peter Stuge
Tom Wijsman wrote: I would actually expect the change to take effect immediately. Then how would you be able to shutdown / reboot your system in a clean way? The premise here is that when you boot with an init system you must shutdown with that same init system, you can't just start one

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Usage of dev-utils/ninja in ebuilds

2013-05-25 Thread Mike Gilbert
On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 9:53 PM, Ryan Hill dirtye...@gentoo.org wrote: On Sat, 25 May 2013 14:48:30 -0400 Mike Gilbert flop...@gentoo.org wrote: I'm wondering if we should create a more global function for calling ninja in a consistent way. Maybe we should introduce a NINJAOPTS variable for

Re: [gentoo-dev] Usage of dev-utils/ninja in ebuilds

2013-05-25 Thread Paweł Hajdan, Jr.
On 5/25/13 12:45 PM, Mike Gilbert wrote: You may see small (~60 seconds) difference when compiling Chromium due to faster target dependency resolution. You may also see faster builds in general because ninja is designed for very high degree of parallelization as compared to make. From a

[gentoo-dev] Re: Usage of dev-utils/ninja in ebuilds

2013-05-25 Thread Ryan Hill
On Sat, 25 May 2013 22:00:36 -0400 Alex Xu alex_y...@yahoo.ca wrote: On 25/05/13 09:53 PM, Ryan Hill wrote: Is NINJAOPTS a variable recognized by ninja or something that would be Gentoo specific? MAKEOPTS is Gentoo-specific anyways. MAKEFLAGS is parsed by at least GNU make. Yeah, so I'm