Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Becoming a Gentoo developer?
On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 7:30 PM, Kent Fredric wrote: > > The best argument I have for why the quizzes being what they are is they > require you to engage with gentoo staff in order to get them answered, and > thus ensure you know how to ask questions. > That, and that you're able to interact with other developers, and know WHEN to ask questions. I'll take somebody who knows they can't write an ebuild and thus doesn't commit anything without getting it reviewed over somebody who think's they're God's gift to Gentoo and runs scripts that tweak half the tree without so much as a whisper on -dev in advance. The quizzes really are just a basic competency test combined with an interviewing tool. The recruiters need to assess responsibility/maturity, communication skills, and understanding of the fundamentals. Anybody can read the devmanual to brush up on some detail they forget. What we really need is somebody who realizes that they SHOULD read the devmanual. I'm not dismissing technical competence, especially the fundamentals. It just isn't the area that tends to actually get us in trouble. And if we did go with a more review-oriented workflow, it would actually increase the importance of the soft skills. A reviewer isn't just ensuring that libfoo builds - they're also coordinating with all the reverse dependency maintainers to ensure that they don't just break without warning. Look at it another way. I and just about everybody else with an @g.o address on this list basically has root access to every Gentoo box you use (unless you have your own rigorous QA process). You're putting a lot of trust in us. We owe it to you to ensure that somebody who is going to get upset and stick something nasty in an ebuild because they're having a bad day doesn't have commit rights. There are plenty of flame wars on the lists, and many differences of opinion. However, when it comes to the repository we really don't have much tolerance for messing around. Things like revert wars or reverts of QA commits need to be treated very seriously. So, that is part of why we have mentors/recruiters/interviews/etc. We'd like to get to know you. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Becoming a Gentoo developer?
On 18 April 2015 at 07:14, Justin Bronder wrote: > Unless the process has changed > drastically since I joined, the only lengthy part of joining is > potentially waiting for the recruitment team to catch up on their > backlog. If someone doesn't have a couple of hours to spend filling out > the quizes and chatting with a recruiter I don't we're losing out on > much. > With all due respect, I myself find, and apparently others may also, that there is more to it than time investment. My impression I've garnered is that for some reason I can't devine, some people find them incredibly easy, and others find them soul-destroyingly hard. I am in the latter category. I can't profer an explanation for why this is, I really don't know, and If I told you I would be probably making up rationalisations after the fact. But I can state there are overlays I have *easily* invested *months* of aggregate time into them. I also have my doubts about the utility of the quizes being what they are for all people, as I doubt the format serves as either an educational tool, or a quality guard. The best argument I have for why the quizzes being what they are is they *require* you to engage with gentoo staff in order to get them answered, and thus ensure you know how to ask questions. But the content of the quizzes themselves seems easily forgotten ( And I recall reading dev mailing list entries from time to time on the nature of "How did you not know that, its in the quizzes!" :) ) Personally, I would see more value in a system where I learned the ropes by doing them, not by talking about them. Because I very seldom learn anything simply by reading and writing. Obviously that penchant is not for all people, because different people have different ways of learning things. -- Kent *KENTNL* - https://metacpan.org/author/KENTNL
Re: [gentoo-dev] Becoming a Gentoo developer?
On 18 April 2015 at 02:33, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > The problem is double effort: previously one developer effort was > needed, now effort is doubled at least: reviewers must dig into > details how submitted code works, test it and only then commit. Now > remember that reviewers are also developers. This means that pull > requests will hang for weeks, months, forever due to a lack of time. > On top of all this thinks about maintainer-needed packages or > packages that can't be categorised into some single project, e.g. > *-misc categories. > You're aware of course this is a current problem, not a prospective one, and that penalty is paid for every single contributor who doesn't have commit bits. This is where any shortage of staff compounds itself. Just our tooling is currently really poorly optimised, and so there are needless steps every developer must take to simply have the contibuted code available to even compare. I'm hoping with git migration we can find some alternatives that are less taxing. But the reduced opinion I have is a lack of progression between overlay contributor and gentoo dev. For instance, a single contributor may be tasked with performing a large number of arbitrary and time consuming simple steps on packages in a specific category, and the nature of their chances might be that the aggregate of those changes can be reviewed without need to review the individual diffs. The individual will still be isolated from unsanctioned contamination of the tree, and a trusted gentoo dev still makes the magic happen, so the elements of our human costs are all still there. But the tooling can make it more effective to review such differences by aggregation. -- Kent *KENTNL* - https://metacpan.org/author/KENTNL
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: RFC: News item for net-firewall/shorewall all-in-one package migration
Hi, thank you all for the feedback. I read through the news archive and most previous news items don't use the package category in the title. I'll propose > Title: shorewall is now a single package I filled a bug for the news item request: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=546952 -Thomas signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Becoming a Gentoo developer?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Am Freitag, 17. April 2015, 16:41:37 schrieb Alexander Berntsen: > > On an unrelated side-note: I am considering a career in landscape > portrait painting instead of computer science. > I hereby confirm that I've read this message. - -- Andreas K. Huettel Gentoo Linux developer dilfri...@gentoo.org http://www.akhuettel.de/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0 iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJVMXchXxSAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXQ0RkJDMzI0NjNBOTIwMDY5MTQ2NkMzNDBF MTM4NkZEN0VGNEI1Nzc5AAoJEOE4b9fvS1d5914QAInbpTgUQb9eY/DbTHioStJx dFf1ZhXogrqsmAmtGdeL+IjtM0BA+iZZMntH5BZZnX1HHNCiBEqyrIGtV0tp01ez 2CjmYXuv2DEwhIwMvazibc5jnqOrzf+CughmTqVYZmSVVAwSiDcR+LxgQL50Ziej lenUgl6kBYokcL9KRDMwmeHDpE7NufaEUzKlVZDBGm/0Zi71Pl+MjZnpckRZpOig vb4mzYAej93qbwosaoHHTtqd/W6zmBnDKNKe2S6lbuzV5KRc7uOhga6MqPCJ/7Zj nKyTv2Gx1VR3LFvU6GHciB9YYrBPwjimgLCqxEz4WggC7+VnsPs69uLhVMdERbLT Ccd7UmX9lWlUrLJXxzNykTVOUrZIW+Gfd1y4nu4l3BXqpABKRtrwfKI4yNmME3p3 oKJivKWLjCmtAlmoUybVuT+R6yKsvl3viKZsNVj1Wx0VpmW0j18aaxcIRZCyd5Fv uCCzBrAywWEHs6cAwxTX3hBnZsSpCwm6EZVNOQIjHUx0Y5IzzvNfz1p1Kv8XUe5x yma/JbDlQFwOePOwnEBTLErlFiTsk19LBHmgzc4/8OAIBgwww914pzFuTEs4DihD Jnk5leh0zq+B0qYH4ZGqaR7YV3oU5cmVTlP5oPlgmxzv8yIy9OvsUtpvbEpQe9nK YsZypO9NvrognwYZ1vMe =kNoA -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] Becoming a Gentoo developer?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Am Donnerstag, 16. April 2015, 19:27:13 schrieb hasufell: > > High-quality overlays are the easiest way to contribute. I don't think > users should really have to care when or how an ebuild reaches the CVS > gentoo tree. Most projects already use overlays (e.g. science, perl, > haskell...). Start there and you'll save a lot of headache too. > * No offense to those involved there intended, but I'm pretty sure that overall QA standards in the main tree are higher than in the sci overlay at least. * The KDE overlay contains mainly live ebuilds and packager prereleases not for public consumption. * The perl overlay is mainly a one-man project with 800 packages, and while you can certainly send as many pull requests there as you want, time would be spent in a more productive way updating the main tree perl packages. (Except that requires talking to and cooperating with the rest of the perl team. Oh bugger.) Project overlays are typically used as staging ground for packages "in preparation" or "not yet ready for the end user". I am still not sure why you are trying to forcefully mix up this distinction. As a side note, my personal willingness to add random overlays to my system is limited while (only as examples) there are no arch teams supervising keywording/stabilization there, no security team tracking vulnerabilities and filing GLSAs, and while there's no QA team that kicks people doing silly eclass changes. - -- Andreas K. Huettel Gentoo Linux developer dilfri...@gentoo.org http://www.akhuettel.de/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0 iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJVMXauXxSAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXQ0RkJDMzI0NjNBOTIwMDY5MTQ2NkMzNDBF MTM4NkZEN0VGNEI1Nzc5AAoJEOE4b9fvS1d5HrQQAKsrhuF7Hj6OnCxuI+HtVT1Q T23tOikXbVCJBwKOA0vkN3XfGMEmU09lDAl8Y9EEs/b33NPXLUi1kWypTiWk04/L rg8OqxUm33KoatkoUP9rlGtr+n0UEHZ9sGp1LPiyhPJqRz8AJPcybmT68gHCMwS7 W/nUmuPanjpxGLRzkp1GtUrXQZnEW6MXbXjL8xFeAZg/jh+hF990Zu4daYFWT5N3 6N09gR/n3V0HoQftq5VM2HRMS+PBMlXOdF+ufkosLtHToFtqUSwnys09I+BlvFb7 pxci4C7SwadzMxgcdbo8K4fLkwkwJDoiCiMJJcSdiVgvgHCVBq2pS2kvzsbo8aXU x/TRRU0olaK+2dz3IJIqbeGQD2qF1KzFVBWZklt6LTIUmvoUcFmxAYZI6BvlFMGH m1/GwYzU2Z7oVxwFYjn/woTuBztK8g9mPsTHWxgf9Pz4nCUgsUY11Z8bIL4CvSIu FAXEbe/E8kbjBtSV0Fgm6CQNPCUjarg39LZ9i7DUkmyl/0ZP9elWF52p4dT6aaBu W0BbrcgNFxuLikDXYstvjISv77mYkKPQ71HHvKaH9sHT6CodTUnyCah8vOKnyiYB JabnZwsbM6y90CCli4QlpBf38RnND8e0hcfbYdx2kJ6ds3o7ChlXnffqshiH8BZG I/mdl5olDI4O3g587LxN =RgJ5 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
[gentoo-dev] [warning] the bug queue has 119 bugs
Our bug queue has 119 bugs! If you have some spare time, please help assign/sort a few bugs. To view the bug queue, click here: http://bit.ly/m8PQS5 Thanks!
Re: [gentoo-dev] Becoming a Gentoo developer?
El jue, 16-04-2015 a las 19:27 +0200, hasufell escribió: [...] > To reply to the topic: If the only reason you want to become a gentoo > developer is "contributing ebuilds", then you should reconsider that, > because there are easier ways to do that. > But if you are interested in politics, PMS, EAPI and other > organizational stuff on top of contributing ebuilds, it might make sense. > I, as another Gentoo developer, encourage people willing to contribute ebuilds to try to jump the gap if possible to allow to directly "do the job" instead of depending on others (with commit access) to import the ebuilds they put at some random overlays. I am not mostly interested in "politics, PMS, EAPI and other organizational stuff" and I still think it makes sense to become a gentoo developer
[gentoo-dev] Re: Becoming a Gentoo developer?
On 15/04/15 15:02 +0200, Peter Stuge wrote: > Yanestra wrote: > > after a talk with some of the persons present here, it appears, Gentoo > > Linux is actually something like a Freemason lodge. > > I disagree with this. > > I do agree that the threshold to become a developer with write access > to the gentoo repo is very high, which is why I'm not a developer, > although I use Gentoo tools and have been writing ebuilds for many years. > I don't have time for the overhead, so I just maintain my own overlay. You know, I keep seeing people state this as if it was an established fact, even developers themselves. Unless the process has changed drastically since I joined, the only lengthy part of joining is potentially waiting for the recruitment team to catch up on their backlog. If someone doesn't have a couple of hours to spend filling out the quizes and chatting with a recruiter I don't we're losing out on much. -- Justin Bronder signature.asc Description: Digital signature
[gentoo-dev] Re: bug-wrangling (was: [warning] the bug queue has 111 bugs)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 17/04/15 12:13 PM, Franz Fellner wrote: > Alex Alexander wrote: >> Our bug queue has 111 bugs! >> >> If you have some spare time, please help assign/sort a few bugs. >> >> To view the bug queue, click here: http://bit.ly/m8PQS5 >> >> Thanks! >> > > Is there something non-devs could do? Would it be OK to just CC > HERD mail from epkginfo (as I am not allowed to reassign). Because > I at least once a day browse the bug database and could at least CC > some of the new bugs. > A few years before I became I dev, I did a short stint as a bug-wrangler -- iirc all you need to do is train yourself via the bug-wrangling guide and find someone to vouch for you in order to obtain write-access to bugzilla. I don't know who you would talk to about this right now (NP-Hardass maybe??) but I'm sure that we could use the help, if you wanted to lend a hand. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlUxSJgACgkQ2ugaI38ACPCQJwD9HCxFXXsnUXR5WU3dHBsvO93Z v7u2nzotdNAREAOBRekBAKRpu8xdSfxeE5GIBF0KOEGBqNMZ3Mtl2jjluN7EQZfs =qR8R -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] Becoming a Gentoo developer?
On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 10:41 AM, Alexander Berntsen wrote: > > On 17/04/15 16:33, Andrew Savchenko wrote: >> The problem is double effort: previously one developer effort was >> needed, now effort is doubled at least > You have correctly identified the problem; in order to do things > properly one must do things properly, which is more difficult than not > doing things properly. > "Properly" is just a matter of requirements. Gentoo has 18k packages right now. In my general experience, they install fine maybe 95% of the time. If you said that you could increase that success rate from 95% to 99.99% by dropping to 500 packages, I'd tell you that I'd prefer things just they way they are. And that is the challenge. Everything is a trade-off. Right now we end up dropping packages because we can't find one person to maintain them. With a review workflow we'll drop packages if we can't find two people to maintain them. I doubt that would mean merely a 50% reduction, since our interests tend to be varied. You'll have some packages that are popular and there will be 10 people interested in reviewing them. Then you'll have many more packages that are cared for by a single person. -- Rich
RE: [gentoo-dev] [warning] the bug queue has 111 bugs
Alex Alexander wrote: > Our bug queue has 111 bugs! > > If you have some spare time, please help assign/sort a few bugs. > > To view the bug queue, click here: http://bit.ly/m8PQS5 > > Thanks! > Is there something non-devs could do? Would it be OK to just CC HERD mail from epkginfo (as I am not allowed to reassign). Because I at least once a day browse the bug database and could at least CC some of the new bugs.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Becoming a Gentoo developer?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 17/04/15 16:33, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > The problem is double effort: previously one developer effort was > needed, now effort is doubled at least You have correctly identified the problem; in order to do things properly one must do things properly, which is more difficult than not doing things properly. On an unrelated side-note: I am considering a career in landscape portrait painting instead of computer science. - -- Alexander berna...@gentoo.org https://secure.plaimi.net/~alexander -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlUxG6AACgkQRtClrXBQc7VmVQD9GyjKVdu4PWghoeJk/3vZJBe2 4C2zVdEP5B29B+RA07gA/0+UzuhetTYeKGjttkJNpTdHDeTjHJfKC26BK8tuYFPE =mm2P -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] Becoming a Gentoo developer?
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:50:00 +0200 hasufell wrote: > >> If you have followed the recent discussions about gentoos organizational > >> structure, review workflow and overlay situation you would know that > >> there is a pretty simple solution for this problem. > > > > I have followed them and I have seen no solution usable in real > > world. > > > > The solution is that for example the ruby project assigns a few > reviewers (e.g. project lead) and if someone wants to bump ruby > packages, he submits a pull request and the assignee is going to be the > ruby project. What's the problem? The problem is double effort: previously one developer effort was needed, now effort is doubled at least: reviewers must dig into details how submitted code works, test it and only then commit. Now remember that reviewers are also developers. This means that pull requests will hang for weeks, months, forever due to a lack of time. On top of all this thinks about maintainer-needed packages or packages that can't be categorised into some single project, e.g. *-misc categories. > Do you think the usb-subsystem maintainer of the kernel is going to > fiddle with the cryptography subsystem all by himself? That's not the > case. And that's why the linux kernel workflow works: competence, > subsystems and trust. As I pointed above comparision of Gentoo with Linux kernel is invalid. We have different resources. Another argument that connectivity between subsystems is much higher in the Linux kernel. > All that is done in real world. And there are tons of tools to automated > such a workflow easily without dumping everything to a single mailing list. Reviews cannot be automated. A human being is still needed to read, understand and test proposed code. All tools like pull requests and so automate only a small bit of real work. > Global reviews will only happen when stuff is actually of global > importance, like non-trivial eclass changes or far-reaching technical > decisions. We already have that with gentoo-dev mail list. And I'm happy with current solution. If you can't handle patchset from e-mails, learn houw to use tools, e.g. quilt. > So please do some research first before doing broad statements about > what kind of workflow is possible. I already done such research and my conclusion is that it can't be fundamentally changed. Only small improvements here and there are possible. > Other distros successfully use such workflows. Other distros are binary based. They don't have USE flags, they don't have plenty of different compilers and environments. All they do is package building with predefined set of options in a fixed environment for each arch. Gentoo is much more complex than that. You can compare only apples to apples, not apples to plane. Best regards, Andrew Savchenko pgpY_hxStoY9u.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Becoming a Gentoo developer?
On 04/17/2015 02:26 PM, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 13:14:49 +0200 hasufell wrote: >> On 04/17/2015 01:00 PM, Andrew Savchenko wrote: >>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:33:06 +0200 Alexander Berntsen wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 15/04/15 15:02, Peter Stuge wrote: > the threshold to become a developer with write access to the > gentoo repo is very high LOL. No. It's way too low, given our review-less workflow in which any dev can do essentially whatever they want. >>> >>> The only net results from strict review workflow (when each commit >>> of each dev must be reviewed and approved by at least N devs) are >>> tons of bikeshedding, real quality improvement is marginal, because >>> people are working in different areas anyway. And if you will >>> consider, that strict review will require N more times effort and >>> spent time, actual quality of the tree will drop almost N times, >>> because number of man hours spent on Gentoo is approximately >>> constant with the same number of devs. >> >> If you have followed the recent discussions about gentoos organizational >> structure, review workflow and overlay situation you would know that >> there is a pretty simple solution for this problem. > > I have followed them and I have seen no solution usable in real > world. > The solution is that for example the ruby project assigns a few reviewers (e.g. project lead) and if someone wants to bump ruby packages, he submits a pull request and the assignee is going to be the ruby project. What's the problem? Do you think the usb-subsystem maintainer of the kernel is going to fiddle with the cryptography subsystem all by himself? That's not the case. And that's why the linux kernel workflow works: competence, subsystems and trust. All that is done in real world. And there are tons of tools to automated such a workflow easily without dumping everything to a single mailing list. Global reviews will only happen when stuff is actually of global importance, like non-trivial eclass changes or far-reaching technical decisions. So please do some research first before doing broad statements about what kind of workflow is possible. Other distros successfully use such workflows.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Becoming a Gentoo developer?
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 13:14:49 +0200 hasufell wrote: > On 04/17/2015 01:00 PM, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > > On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:33:06 +0200 Alexander Berntsen wrote: > >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > >> Hash: SHA256 > >> > >> On 15/04/15 15:02, Peter Stuge wrote: > >>> the threshold to become a developer with write access to the > >>> gentoo repo is very high > >> LOL. No. It's way too low, given our review-less workflow in which any > >> dev can do essentially whatever they want. > > > > The only net results from strict review workflow (when each commit > > of each dev must be reviewed and approved by at least N devs) are > > tons of bikeshedding, real quality improvement is marginal, because > > people are working in different areas anyway. And if you will > > consider, that strict review will require N more times effort and > > spent time, actual quality of the tree will drop almost N times, > > because number of man hours spent on Gentoo is approximately > > constant with the same number of devs. > > If you have followed the recent discussions about gentoos organizational > structure, review workflow and overlay situation you would know that > there is a pretty simple solution for this problem. I have followed them and I have seen no solution usable in real world. > Review workflow will not be random/global. Some gentoo projects already > have strict review workflow. You just have to map this properly to the > tree. If you do that improperly, then ofc it will be crap. Please point to exact projects and exact descriptions of workflow processes. As for now I see none globally usable. Best regards, Andrew Savchenko pgpurKXd6qwux.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Becoming a Gentoo developer?
On 04/17/2015 01:00 PM, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:33:06 +0200 Alexander Berntsen wrote: >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA256 >> >> On 15/04/15 15:02, Peter Stuge wrote: >>> the threshold to become a developer with write access to the >>> gentoo repo is very high >> LOL. No. It's way too low, given our review-less workflow in which any >> dev can do essentially whatever they want. > > The only net results from strict review workflow (when each commit > of each dev must be reviewed and approved by at least N devs) are > tons of bikeshedding, real quality improvement is marginal, because > people are working in different areas anyway. And if you will > consider, that strict review will require N more times effort and > spent time, actual quality of the tree will drop almost N times, > because number of man hours spent on Gentoo is approximately > constant with the same number of devs. If you have followed the recent discussions about gentoos organizational structure, review workflow and overlay situation you would know that there is a pretty simple solution for this problem. Review workflow will not be random/global. Some gentoo projects already have strict review workflow. You just have to map this properly to the tree. If you do that improperly, then ofc it will be crap.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Becoming a Gentoo developer?
Hi, On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 10:50:34 +1200 Kent Fredric wrote: > On 17 April 2015 at 02:22, Bob Wya wrote: > > > Are you maintaining an overlay listed in Layman? If not then it's pretty > > obvious that > > you're just trolling the mailing list and wasting a lot of folk's time... > > > > > I'm not sure that's the case. Its easy enough to maintain an overlay. Its > easy enough to get yourself into the primary permission bits to be major > contributor to an overlay listed in layman. > > But that doesn't really make you a useful gentoo developer, its just a > stepping stone. > > The barrier to entry to making useful changes to the CVS tree is presently > several orders of magnitude more daunting than contributing to an overlay. Nevertheless it is quite doable. And from my personal experience it is definitely worth it. Before becoming a dev I had my own overlay in layman for years. Training gives you a much deeper understanding of both development process and community relations, this is like an evolution to another step. As for overlays, their function is important, but should not be overestimated. In my vision main function of overlays is sandboxing. Sandboxing in many aspects: for either packages too new or immature to be added to the main tree; or for contributions from interested users who are still not devs; or, perhaps, for packages with too small target audience to care enough to put them to the tree. I don't believe in talks about "high quality overlays". All overlays I ever tried have lesser quality than the main tree, though some are a bit lesser, while others are horrible. Of course there may be exceptions, but I know none. Best regards, Andrew Savchenko pgpjYmmCKyA3S.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Becoming a Gentoo developer?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 04/17/2015 01:00 PM, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:33:06 +0200 Alexander Berntsen wrote: >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 >> >> On 15/04/15 15:02, Peter Stuge wrote: >>> the threshold to become a developer with write access to the >>> gentoo repo is very high >> LOL. No. It's way too low, given our review-less workflow in >> which any dev can do essentially whatever they want. > > The only net results from strict review workflow (when each commit > of each dev must be reviewed and approved by at least N devs) are Agreed, although to be fair, without putting words in Alexander's mouth, I believe the original intention was mostly that we should have a high bar to get commit access, as it involve a great deal of trust in the first place, a review process would be a mitigant for this, but as you correctly point out, it simply isn't economical. As have been pointed out, there are other ways to contribute (proxied maintenance, overlay, editing wiki, support etc) that is likely a better starting point than becoming a dev directly. - -- Kristian Fiskerstrand Public PGP key 0xE3EDFAE3 at hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net fpr:94CB AFDD 3034 5109 5618 35AA 0B7F 8B60 E3ED FAE3 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJVMOqVAAoJEP7VAChXwav6b0EIAKrSIInhoq7lrpLdHO8HtuVV beCvj+WM6zwIoI1ahuRxvhwGxUVQ/CJShBYgmCl+IjahyUUG+v6Shzl3XoMi73U3 CyNGeTBGqdSl1BM7uo0j1oO3Qh/xWPsz8GvrMoQDqvWiMpo9qy6xyAikf4QrZA71 WXonj/IeYP9KKo3uGgOUIGCB4tsHP6lY+HTN9DGkVwAJWFeNqEPcBhTChrEec+Cv yG9xzcMfxT8ixochMaG1b1A0wVq/hIpMQ2UuIy573QylZ5bwwOy++9leSrR5I5xY rtuusipxROGklSPxsFyFa6GEBwd2stNB03LduxHvaffmJnE4MewLoJ2NuASgytQ= =ZCi4 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] Becoming a Gentoo developer?
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:33:06 +0200 Alexander Berntsen wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA256 > > On 15/04/15 15:02, Peter Stuge wrote: > > the threshold to become a developer with write access to the > > gentoo repo is very high > LOL. No. It's way too low, given our review-less workflow in which any > dev can do essentially whatever they want. The only net results from strict review workflow (when each commit of each dev must be reviewed and approved by at least N devs) are tons of bikeshedding, real quality improvement is marginal, because people are working in different areas anyway. And if you will consider, that strict review will require N more times effort and spent time, actual quality of the tree will drop almost N times, because number of man hours spent on Gentoo is approximately constant with the same number of devs. Really, I'm tired of that review bikeshedding and trolling. Before continuing talks like that take a list of paper, do some calculations, think them over. And do not point at the Linux kernel — they have ~80% paid developers, so they have resources for that kind of workflow. We are volunteers here, so we don't. Best regards, Andrew Savchenko pgpZmEhoxSMSC.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Becoming a Gentoo developer?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 15/04/15 15:02, Peter Stuge wrote: > the threshold to become a developer with write access to the > gentoo repo is very high LOL. No. It's way too low, given our review-less workflow in which any dev can do essentially whatever they want. - -- Alexander berna...@gentoo.org https://secure.plaimi.net/~alexander -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlUw4WEACgkQRtClrXBQc7WitQEAjRgQsWlb7BXOISCNWekP7L2o zgwEf45lR1Zx8nNpsxYA/R1bSc2S570Js6uD9wTU40EV+tbCK0j2RaJbMz4g/+jQ =GgCd -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] CI services for Gentoo & Social Contract meanings of "dependant" notifications on depgraph breakages
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 15/04/15 11:56, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > frankly it looks like to me that we are just selling our freedom, > slowly, bit by bit. Sadly, I think most Gentoo devs are way past the point of caring. But, for what it's worth, I agree with you completely. - -- Alexander berna...@gentoo.org https://secure.plaimi.net/~alexander -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlUw4AsACgkQRtClrXBQc7VL5AD/QufBCKH5f0nLpziZqlJy6pKY W4sF97+kPojZ4JYqDhgA/2Eya8HtDExc2Yjr/56IYmZe9BZ0cr3As0VNQ2KPC2Jm =C2HQ -END PGP SIGNATURE-
