Re: [gentoo-dev] You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread John Helmert III
On Thu, Nov 04, 2021 at 12:09:28AM +, Sam James wrote: > On 4 Nov 2021, at 00:02, Sam James wrote: > >> On 3 Nov 2021, at 23:53, Aaron Bauman wrote: > >> Is that where the policy belongs? > >> If so, shouldn't the council update it based on their decisions? > >> "patches are welcome" doesn't

Re: [gentoo-dev] You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread Sam James
On 4 Nov 2021, at 00:02, Sam James wrote: >> On 3 Nov 2021, at 23:53, Aaron Bauman wrote: >> Is that where the policy belongs? >> If so, shouldn't the council update it based on their decisions? >> "patches are welcome" doesn't fit every scenario. > Got to agree here. If there's a gap in the

Re: [gentoo-dev] You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread Sam James
> On 3 Nov 2021, at 23:53, Aaron Bauman wrote: > Is that where the policy belongs? > If so, shouldn't the council update it based on their decisions? > "patches are welcome" doesn't fit every scenario. Got to agree here. If there's a gap in the documentation, let's file a bug -- irrespective

Re: [gentoo-dev] You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread Aaron Bauman
On Wed, Nov 03, 2021 at 10:32:34PM +0100, Ulrich Mueller wrote: > > On Wed, 03 Nov 2021, Aaron Bauman wrote: > > > I love digging through old council logs to find "policy" > > > Not sure why others don't feel the same way. > > Patches for the devmanual are welcome. Is that where the

[gentoo-dev] Basic upgrade CI testing

2021-11-03 Thread Andreas K. Huettel
> I think the obvious easy solution here is to run a CI that is using > older stuff, and report problems when commits break that. Something that's been bouncing around my head: * archive stage3 files somewhere official * run a weekly CI job that attempts to upgrade a N-weeks old stage3 to

Re: [gentoo-dev] You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread Sam James
> On 3 Nov 2021, at 20:16, Rich Freeman wrote: > It probably would be good to get these policies documented someplace > OTHER than the council decision logs. I do remember the discussion > from the distant past but it is worth having it in a more prominent > place, especially since a one year

Re: [gentoo-dev] You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread Sam James
> On 3 Nov 2021, at 22:15, Joshua Kinard wrote: > Actually, it is possible to manage dependency errors like those. It just > takes a *lot* of elbow grease, and and long, long time time. Especially if > you have museum-grade hardware that these errors are happening on. > > For Perl, I've

Re: [gentoo-dev] You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread Sam James
> On 3 Nov 2021, at 15:03, Thomas Deutschmann wrote: > > Hi, > > it is currently not possible to smoothly run a world upgrade on a 4 months > old system which doesn't even have a complicated package list: > [snip] > > This is not about finding solution to upgrade the system (in this case it

Re: [gentoo-dev] You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread Alec Warner
On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 2:50 PM Andreas K. Huettel wrote: > > Am Mittwoch, 3. November 2021, 22:39:41 CET schrieb Ulrich Mueller: > > > On Wed, 03 Nov 2021, Andreas K Huettel wrote: > > > > > The mistake was to allow the use of EAPI=8 too early. In the future, > > > we should have a new EAPI

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread Philip Webb
211103 Joshua Kinard wrote: > That all said, am I alone in thinking > the way Portage emits error messages about dependency resolution problems > is extremely messy and border-line unreadable at times? > The current way it outputs depgraph errors > feels like something I'd expect from a --debug

[gentoo-dev] Re: You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread Joshua Kinard
On 11/3/2021 11:03, Thomas Deutschmann wrote: > Hi, > > it is currently not possible to smoothly run a world upgrade on a 4 > months old system which doesn't even have a complicated package list: [snip] > This is not about finding solution to upgrade the system (in this case > it was enough

Re: [gentoo-dev] Common Lisp project is empty

2021-11-03 Thread Michael Orlitzky
On Wed, 2021-11-03 at 16:25 +0100, Max Zettlmeißl wrote: > On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 at 14:15, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > > If no one intends to join, we should drop the following to maintainer- > > needed: > > I use some of those packets daily. Is there a way to join the Common > Lisp project without

Re: [gentoo-dev] You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread Andreas K. Huettel
Am Mittwoch, 3. November 2021, 22:39:41 CET schrieb Ulrich Mueller: > > On Wed, 03 Nov 2021, Andreas K Huettel wrote: > > > The mistake was to allow the use of EAPI=8 too early. In the future, > > we should have a new EAPI supported by portage for at least some > > months before the EAPI is

Re: [gentoo-dev] You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread Ulrich Mueller
> On Wed, 03 Nov 2021, Andreas K Huettel wrote: > The mistake was to allow the use of EAPI=8 too early. In the future, > we should have a new EAPI supported by portage for at least some > months before the EAPI is even used in the main tree. Not even > speaking about stable here. I tend to

Re: [gentoo-dev] You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread Ulrich Mueller
> On Wed, 03 Nov 2021, Aaron Bauman wrote: > I love digging through old council logs to find "policy" > Not sure why others don't feel the same way. Patches for the devmanual are welcome. signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Re: [gentoo-dev] You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread Rich Freeman
On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 1:14 PM Ulrich Mueller wrote: > > > On Wed, 03 Nov 2021, John Helmert wrote: > > >> | https://projects.gentoo.org/council/meeting-logs/20091109-summary.txt > >> | > >> | Upgrade path for old systems > >> | > >> | Vote (unanimous): The ebuild

Re: [gentoo-dev] You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread Andreas K. Huettel
Am Mittwoch, 3. November 2021, 16:03:37 CET schrieb Thomas Deutschmann: > Hi, > > it is currently not possible to smoothly run a world upgrade on a 4 > months old system which doesn't even have a complicated package list: > [snip] Yup. We know. It's actually way worse than you describe [*] and

Re: [gentoo-dev] You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread Philip Webb
211103 John Helmert III wrote: > An "upgrade path" to me sounds like not just a world update, > but also includes other stuff > that might be necessary to get a system fully updated, > like temporarily setting PYTHON_TARGETS to upgrade a package. > A system without an upgrade path would seem to be

Re: [gentoo-dev] You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread Aaron Bauman
On Wed, Nov 03, 2021 at 05:34:16PM +0100, Ulrich Mueller wrote: > > On Wed, 03 Nov 2021, Rich Freeman wrote: > > > On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 11:03 AM Thomas Deutschmann > > wrote: > >> > >> This is not about finding solution to upgrade the system (in this case > >> it was enough to force

Re: [gentoo-dev] You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread Ulrich Mueller
> On Wed, 03 Nov 2021, John Helmert wrote: >> | https://projects.gentoo.org/council/meeting-logs/20091109-summary.txt >> | >> | Upgrade path for old systems >> | >> | Vote (unanimous): The ebuild tree must provide an upgrade path to a >> | stable system that

Re: [gentoo-dev] You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread John Helmert III
On Wed, Nov 03, 2021 at 05:51:49PM +0100, Thomas Deutschmann wrote: > On 2021-11-03 17:44, John Helmert III wrote: > >> | Upgrade path for old systems > >> | > >> | Vote (unanimous): The ebuild tree must provide an upgrade path to a > >> | stable system that hasn't

Re: [gentoo-dev] You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread Thomas Deutschmann
On 2021-11-03 17:44, John Helmert III wrote: | Upgrade path for old systems | | Vote (unanimous): The ebuild tree must provide an upgrade path to a | stable system that hasn't been updated for one year. Does "upgrade path" imply a simple world upgrade is all that

Re: [gentoo-dev] You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread John Helmert III
On Wed, Nov 03, 2021 at 05:34:16PM +0100, Ulrich Mueller wrote: > > On Wed, 03 Nov 2021, Rich Freeman wrote: > > > On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 11:03 AM Thomas Deutschmann > > wrote: > >> > >> This is not about finding solution to upgrade the system (in this case > >> it was enough to force

Re: [gentoo-dev] You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread Ulrich Mueller
> On Wed, 03 Nov 2021, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 11:03 AM Thomas Deutschmann wrote: >> >> This is not about finding solution to upgrade the system (in this case >> it was enough to force PYTHON_TARGETS=python3_8 for portage). This is >> about raising awareness that Gentoo

Re: [gentoo-dev] You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread Rich Freeman
On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 11:03 AM Thomas Deutschmann wrote: > > This is not about finding solution to upgrade the system (in this case > it was enough to force PYTHON_TARGETS=python3_8 for portage). This is > about raising awareness that Gentoo is a rolling distribution and that > we guarantee

Re: [gentoo-dev] Common Lisp project is empty

2021-11-03 Thread Max Zettlmeißl
On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 at 14:15, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > If no one intends to join, we should drop the following to maintainer- > needed: I use some of those packets daily. Is there a way to join the Common Lisp project without currently having maintainer status or is that not intended?

[gentoo-dev] You currently cannot smoothly upgrade a 4 months old Gentoo system

2021-11-03 Thread Thomas Deutschmann
Hi, it is currently not possible to smoothly run a world upgrade on a 4 months old system which doesn't even have a complicated package list: # cat /var/lib/portage/world app-admin/eclean-kernel app-admin/logrotate app-admin/rsyslog app-editors/nano app-misc/ca-certificates

[gentoo-dev] Common Lisp project is empty

2021-11-03 Thread Michael Orlitzky
If no one intends to join, we should drop the following to maintainer- needed: app-misc/rlwrap dev-libs/ffcall dev-libs/libsigsegv dev-lisp/alexandria dev-lisp/asdf dev-lisp/cl-ppcre dev-lisp/cl-ppcre-unicode dev-lisp/clisp dev-lisp/clozurecl dev-lisp/clx dev-lisp/cmucl dev-lisp/ecls

[gentoo-dev] last rite: dev-java/jamon & java-virtuals/interceptor-api

2021-11-03 Thread Miroslav Šulc
# Volkmar W. Pogatzki (2021-11-01) # Unused library and virtual, removal on 2021-12-01 dev-java/jamon java-virtuals/interceptor-api